Accomplishing your goals sometimes takes great persistence and learning from mistakes over and over again. Even if it means that you have keep going back and trying to figure out what occurred and diagnosing the issues, sometimes that does not mean that the problem will be solved right away. Finding your grit and determination to "see it through" can often be difficult when it has so many moving parts, and often incomplete information at your disposal. Today's guest, Kelly Wilburn, shares her story of her attempt to become a first generation law school graduate, and the enduring outcomes that she had achieved, particularly with the number of times it took to become a licensed attorney. Through her experiences, learn how you can channel your inner tenacity to achieve amazing things, even if they take a while to do, and reap the ultimate rewards that come from it.

Guest Bio

Kelly is 37 years old and is from Jacksonville, North Carolina. She is the product of 2 Marine parents, and the youngest of 5. She was the first to graduate from college in her family; go Wolfpack Class of 2008. She is also a first-generation law graduate, having graduated from Thomas M. Cooley Law School in 2012. By day, she is a practicing attorney. By night, she can be found at home cuddling with her cat, Smalls, dog, Duke, and hanging out with her boyfriend Josh. She enjoys being a member of Toastmasters International, focusing on communication and leadership skills development, and also playing the violin.

• Toastmasters International -Home (https://www.toastmasters.org) - Toastmasters is an international organization that has allowed your podcast host to go through personal and professional connection, combining all kinds of different types of communication and leadership development. Learn more about this organization at the link provided, plus check out the "Find A Club" option where you can locate an in-person or virtual club closest to you and your likings!

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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs

Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

2

determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

3

This is Speaking From The Heart.

4

Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 160 of Speaking from the Heart.

5

Today we have Kelly Wilburn.

6

Kelly is 37 years old and lives

in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

7

She is the product of two marine

parents, and the youngest of five.

8

She was the first to graduate from

college in her family, being part

9

of the Wolfpack class of 2008.

10

She is also a first generation

law graduate, having

11

graduated from the Thomas M.

12

Cooley Law School in 2012.

13

By day, she is a practicing attorney,

but by night, she can be found at

14

home cuddling with her cat, Smalls,

her dog, Duke, and hanging out with

15

her boyfriend, Josh, which has no

relation to me, and I feel like I have

16

to set the record straight on that.

17

It is a different Josh.

18

She enjoys being a member of

Toastmasters International, focusing

19

on communication and leadership skills

development, and also playing the violin.

20

It's been a while since I've had a

Toastmaster on the show, and I thought I

21

was way overdue after I met Kelly at one

of my local Toastmaster clubs in Ashburn,

22

Virginia called Winners Circle, but what

turned into a fascinating encounter which

23

happened on the official Toastmasters

International Facebook group, turned into

24

an awesome conversation about growing

up with two older brothers, living in a

25

chaotic world that really dragged out all

kinds of different voices, and all kinds

26

of resources for her to assist, but also

discovering her own potential, created

27

the standards that she now lives by today.

28

I think what you will find with this

conversation is a mixture of different

29

positive and negative aspects, but that

every time that we go through life,

30

even if we have to do it once, twice,

three times, even twelve times, which

31

you'll find out how that number relates

to the bigger scheme of things, has

32

really created this opportunity that we

should not be holding ourselves back.

33

We can fail, but we are not

a product of that failure.

34

We have all the opportunity presented

to us if we're just willing to create

35

that dynamic in our own lives, and

I think you'll find, that in Kelly's

36

story today, it is definitely about

not only that perspective, but having

37

that tenacity to keep moving forward.

38

But with that, let's go to the episode.

39

All right, we're here with Kelly Wilburn.

40

Kelly, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

41

Kelly: Thank you very much for having me.

42

Joshua: Yeah, absolutely, and I have to

say, thanks to the world of Toastmasters,

43

I have another guest on the show that's

willing to share their story, and

44

Kelly, I'm really excited about our

conversation that we're going to have

45

today, just because of some of the

things that we've already personally

46

interacted with outside of even this

show, for that matter, but I want to

47

dig into something that you mentioned

that I've already introduced you about.

48

It's interesting to me when I have

people on the show that have been raised

49

in a military family, or have served

in the military for that matter, but I

50

noticed that your parents were part of

the Marine Corps, so I'm wondering if

51

you could talk a little bit about your

upbringing being with two Marine parents.

52

I think that has to be not only

fascinating, but maybe strict?

53

Maybe you can dispel that for me.

54

Kelly: Sure.

55

Yes, my mom and my dad both served

proudly in the Marine Corps.

56

I grew up Camp Lejeune,

Jacksonville, North Carolina.

57

It was a blend of strict, but also

loving, caring, just anything you want to

58

describe for two very structured Marines.

59

They offered the discipline.

60

They offered the nurturing,

and that's how I developed into

61

the person that I am today.

62

Although I'm not a military brat,

because we actually didn't move around,

63

I can say that it was an interesting

experience just growing up in that type

64

of environment with people that did

float in and out, and me being able to

65

take in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

66

Joshua: How was it to be

the youngest of five though?

67

Did you have more brothers than sisters?

68

Were they all sisters?

69

What was that dynamic, if you

can talk about that for us.

70

Kelly: Yes, I am the youngest, and I grew

up with my two brothers, Lee and John,

71

because my oldest siblings were of the

age where they were too old to grow up

72

with basically, because my oldest siblings

were at least 13 years older than me, so

73

I really only grew up with two siblings

in the home with me, but yes, they were

74

both boys, and I was the youngest girl.

75

Joshua: How was that

dynamic to be the only girl?

76

Was it difficult?

77

Was it easy?

78

Was it something in between?

79

Kelly: They like to say I was spoiled.

80

I like to say I earned

my keep, if you will.

81

Joshua: I can understand that.

82

I feel like I earned my keep being

the youngest of three, and yet, I

83

was the only male child my parents

had, so I can understand that.

84

Kelly, I find this interesting

that after you grew up, you went to

85

college, then you went to law school.

86

You graduated in 2012.

87

I'm curious, what was the aspect that

led you into not only going to law

88

school, but what was it that really

pushed you into that direction?

89

Kelly: The show Law and Order.

90

No, I'm actually very much kidding.

91

My mom loves the show, but really it

was a matter of I had a major in women's

92

and gender studies at North Carolina

State University, and I wanted to make a

93

difference somehow, some way, in the legal

profession involving women and children.

94

How that was going to happen, ideally

it would have been prosecution, and

95

that's not where I'm at yet in my

career, however, that was why I went

96

to law school is to figure out how to

make a difference in the legal field.

97

Joshua: When you say "make a difference",

what was some of the things that

98

were running through your mind, or

even today, running through your

99

mind, that you want to try to help?

100

Kelly: It just seems to me that the world

is chaotic, and I think it always will be,

101

but you just have to know who you are as a

person in order to relate to your clients,

102

and everybody deserves representation.

103

Joshua: Yeah, and you know, in

Pennsylvania, I actually read this more

104

recently within the last several months

that we actually are terrible in our

105

state about having defense lawyers being

able to defend clients that don't have

106

the ability, or the resources, to be

able to do that, so I'm wondering, do

107

you find that when you have potential

clients, and I know we're probably jumping

108

way ahead, but it just kind of stuck

in my mind when you brought that up.

109

Is there something in particular that

you feel that the criminal justice

110

system can do, whether it's for the

prosecution, whether it's for the defense?

111

Although I believe in rule of law, and

being able to carry out justice when

112

it's appropriate, do you think there's

a better way to help not only uphold

113

the traditions that we have in America?

114

We've have a law system that I think

tries to strive for fair impartiality,

115

accountability, things of that nature.

116

What do you feel about things

that need to be changed if

117

you have any opinion on that?

118

Kelly: I think, overall, and this is

just very broad, but overall, resources,

119

whether that be for the state, or

even for defendants, because for the

120

state, there is a lack of funding

for district attorneys, meaning that

121

cases can be dragged out for years

at a time because there's not enough

122

DAs to prosecute the cases, so the

victims aren't getting their voices

123

heard, and then for defendants, public

defenders: there's not enough of them.

124

There's not enough of a pay scale for

people that want to volunteer to do that.

125

It's just a lack of resources all

around, and it's just hard for the

126

prosecution, hard for the defense, and

I wish that there was a way to fix that.

127

Joshua: Yeah.

128

It takes more than just one person to

be able to change a lot of the different

129

circumstances that are involved with

that type of subject matter, too, but I

130

have to back up a bit because there's a

bigger part of your journey of actually

131

becoming an attorney, if you will, and I'm

wondering if you could share a little bit

132

about your experiences, maybe during law

school that you've experienced, and even

133

afterwards, which I know we were talking a

little bit before the show about what that

134

is that you've been through, and I don't

want to spoil it, so, it's your story.

135

I wonder if you could share

that with our audience.

136

Kelly: Sure.

137

After I graduated from NC State, I

took a gap year and I interned at the

138

prosecutor's office in my hometown, and

that was a wonderful experience, and

139

they encouraged me to go to law school.

140

I unfortunately wasn't accepted into

any in-state schools, but I did apply

141

to an out-of-state school, so I had to

pick up from North Carolina, and move

142

to Michigan to go to Thomas Cooley

Law School, which is actually a school

143

that accepts quite a few people which

is wonderful for me, but they saw the

144

potential in me, because I did not have

a high admissions test score, and so that

145

put me, I guess, at the lower tier of

admittees for schools, but once I got to

146

law school, I had to work just as hard

as everybody else, because even though

147

Cooley admits a lot of students, it's hard

to stay there, and that's their standard.

148

They have a high standard for what you

have to do as a student in order to pass

149

and graduate, and in law school, I found

that it was a struggle, because there's

150

one exam for each class; maybe not in

electives per se, but generally speaking,

151

there's one exam in each class, and that

determines your whole grade, and I knew

152

right off the bat it would be a struggle,

because even in orientation, they had us

153

do a basic reading comprehension test,

and I didn't do well, so I went to the

154

academic resource center and I said, "Hey!

155

I didn't do well.

156

What can I do?", and they said, "Well,

we were going to call you in, and let

157

you know that you didn't do well, and

try and help you figure this out.",

158

and then they told me I should go get

tested by a local psychologist to see

159

if there's something bigger than just

test anxiety, so that's what I did.

160

I went to a local psychologist, and

the local psychologist did a few

161

tests, but their ultimate diagnosis was

test anxiety, and unfortunately, test

162

anxiety doesn't get you accommodations

for these exams, and one exam, again,

163

determines your entire grade, so it

was a struggle for me in law school to

164

maintain a good GPA, because one grade

is everything, and I wasn't finishing

165

my exams, and I was having a tough

time, but that's how law school went.

166

I mean, it was great in terms of being

able to learn and grow as a person.

167

Having moved from North Carolina, I was

this Southern girl who was thrown into

168

this Armageddon of snow, and I had to

find my way and it was just difficult.

169

I had no family, but I made several

friends, and I made my way in law

170

school, and it was a great experience,

but it was a struggle, for sure, to

171

really figure out how to pass, for one

thing, but getting through law school

172

was a struggle, and I wasn't sure why.

173

Joshua: Obviously, you made

it through and you graduated.

174

How did you make it past the test

anxiety that you had, given the

175

fact that the medical profession

didn't really support you in it,

176

so how'd you navigate through that?

177

Kelly: I never got over my test anxiety.

178

I was always afraid of tests, because

I went into these tests thinking,

179

"One grade determines everything.

180

If you don't pass, then you're not

going to pass this class, and you're not

181

going to pass law school.", but again,

I had friends who were there for me.

182

I had study groups, and we always went

in there as prepared as we could, so

183

even then, I knew that I might not

finish, but I was as prepared as I

184

could be, and that's the best I could

do, and that's how I got through it,

185

really, was friend support, study groups,

and just the determination that no

186

matter what, I was going to graduate.

187

Joshua: For me, the last time I walked

in a college classroom was about over

188

a decade ago, and that doesn't mean

that my journey is not over myself.

189

I have aspirations that at some point when

I'm really successful with this business,

190

which I will be, along with my career with

the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which

191

we've talked about before, too, of what

I've been able to achieve through that.

192

I know that I'm going to go back

and get my PhD, and achieve even

193

higher things for that matter.

194

My journey is never ending for

that matter, but I always look

195

back sometimes and think, "Wow!

196

That was a struggle back then, but

it's not so much a struggle now."

197

Have you been able to overcome things,

even in the past decade, doing what

198

you've been doing and practicing law,

that might be helpful to people that are

199

listening to this, maybe are thinking

about going to law school, or they know

200

somebody that is going to law school?

201

What do you think you've

learned after going through that

202

experience and looking back now?

203

Kelly: It's one thing to take

one test and not do well.

204

It's another thing to take a few tests

and not do well, and not understand what's

205

going on, and just thinking that it's you.

206

It's nothing you can do, and so you

go into each test knowing that it

207

might not turn out the way you'd like,

but all you can do is positivity.

208

I had issues with that a lot.

209

I had a lot of self doubt, and I just

kept thinking, "I'm not as good as

210

everybody else.", because everybody

else is doing that much better than me.

211

I couldn't figure out why I was struggling

so much, and everybody else seemed to

212

be doing that much better than me, no

matter how hard I was trying, but I also

213

had that element of negativity, where the

positive wouldn't outweigh the negative,

214

so I had to learn over the years that

the more negative I am, the less positive

215

results I'm going to get, and I feel

like that's advice I could give incoming

216

students who may not do well on their

first couple of exams in law school, or

217

any profession for that matter, because

if you go into it thinking you might

218

not do well, or if you didn't do well,

and that's who you define yourself as,

219

it's going to continue that pattern.

220

Joshua: Yeah.

221

I think we could be self defeating

in that in so many different ways,

222

so I have to ask this question now,

because I'm kind of curious myself.

223

If you were trying really hard, you

made it through school, obviously,

224

there's a test that you have to take,

which is the certification to become

225

a practicing attorney in the state.

226

How well did you do with that then?

227

Kelly: So when I graduated in 2012, it was

always my intent to pass the bar exam in

228

July, and practice law in North Carolina.

229

Well, the very first time I took it in

230

prepping, because usually what happens

is after you graduate, you start prepping

231

for this exam, so you spend eight hours

a day studying seven days a week, six

232

days a week, what have you, with a

prep course in order to do well on this

233

exam in July, so that's what I did.

234

I had done everything right, and then

on the day of the test, which it was at

235

the North Carolina Fairgrounds at the

time, a huge storm rolled in, and the

236

power went out, so that was one thing,

and then there's also a mouse running

237

around, so that was another thing.

238

There were quite a few distractions, and

again, I just wasn't going to finish.

239

I was trying my hardest.

240

I wasn't going to finish, but I did

my best, and there was a huge curve,

241

given the circumstances of that exam,

but I didn't pass that July exam.

242

I found out at the end of August, because,

North Carolina, they actually get you

243

your results back pretty quick, contrary

to some other states, but yeah, I knew at

244

the end of August once I got my letter,

245

and the bar exam is offered twice a year.

246

It's offered in February and July.

247

When I got that letter, I had to kind of

digest, and I cried a lot, obviously, and

248

I ranted and raved to family and friends,

and they were there for me saying, "Okay.

249

It's fine.

250

You got this.

251

You can do it.

252

We know you can do it.", and

with their encouragement, I

253

applied for the February exam.

254

Well, it wasn't exactly that

simple in February either.

255

The process was the same.

256

You have to do another application.

257

You have to pay more money and you have

to study eight hours a day to re prep,

258

but February of 2013, I still didn't

pass, but I applied for the July exam

259

and tried in July, and I didn't pass, and

it sucks that it's only offered twice a

260

year, but every time it was offered, I

applied, or at least for the most part.

261

Life happens, so I didn't take

it every single time, but the

262

tally ended up being 12 total.

263

Joshua: You took it 12 times

before you were able to then pass?

264

Kelly: Yes.

265

Joshua: Wow.

266

When you were getting these rejections

because you didn't pass- let's

267

back up and say this, at least.

268

I don't know if I would have had

the tenacity to be able to try 12

269

times to be able to pass, and I

don't know, for some of my listeners,

270

I think that that's a big number.

271

That's almost a baker's dozen, okay?

272

That's quite a lot.

273

For you, when you were getting

these rejections over and over

274

because of not being able to pass,

wasn't your confidence shaken?

275

I mean, wouldn't you feel like

down in depression about it?

276

Tell me a little bit about when you

were feeling those sort of things

277

that you were experiencing every time

that you went through that, and what

278

I'm really more curious about, after

you explained that then, is what made

279

you keep on wanting to push forward?

280

There had to be something, Kelly.

281

They're really has to.

282

For some people, I think they would have

just gave up, but you didn't, so why?

283

Kelly: Because I'm stubborn.

284

Joshua: Well, that could be part of

it too, and that's even for myself, my

285

German heritage, would tell me, "Yes!

286

I am very stubborn."

287

Some of my friends would attest to

that, but I can understand that.

288

Kelly: Yeah, it was a mixture of

stubborn, and just unfinished business.

289

I always had it in my head that I was

going to pass, and I would pass, and I

290

didn't spend three years in law school

to not pass, and I couldn't give up,

291

and it wasn't in my blood to give up.

292

I mean, my mom, she's a Marine.

293

She ran PFTs while pregnant.

294

I had such an example in my life

that I knew I had to keep going.

295

If she can be in this profession

as a Marine, I can be in this

296

profession as a female attorney,

and just make my way in this world,

297

and I could not give up on that.

298

I spent so much time, and money, and I

just had the drive to keep going, because

299

I couldn't see myself not practicing

law, because that was my ultimate goal.

300

I had to.

301

Yes.

302

All of those rejections

made me extremely upset.

303

I cried a river like none other.

304

I mean, Noah's Ark could have

been reinvented for all the tears

305

that I cried because it hurts.

306

It hurts.

307

Rejection, after

rejection, after rejection.

308

It builds inside of you; that negativity

builds, and so the more I went into it,

309

the more I kept thinking I would fail,

and that's kind of where that came in

310

is I had the preset mindset that because

I failed before I would fail again.

311

I don't think I went into any

exam, except my final one, that I

312

took, thinking that I would pass,

because I had failed so many times.

313

I called myself a failure, but deep

down, I knew I wasn't a failure.

314

I was failing, but it wasn't a failure,

and there had to be some sort of

315

reason as to why, and just the more

I took it, the more I realized that

316

there was a few issues that needed

to come to light, and I wasn't going

317

to quit until I figured it out.

318

Joshua: You said something there that I

think really resonates, and I even say

319

to my clients too, is that you could have

this one individual, tiny, miniscule type

320

of situation that you could say, "You

failed.", but that doesn't define the

321

overall picture, the overall life that

we live, which is you're not a failure.

322

You're not a failure whatsoever,

especially hearing what your mom, and

323

even your family upbringing, really

contributed to help you keep pushing

324

forward, that's really incredible.

325

I loved hearing that, because I think

for some people, they would have just

326

gave up, but maybe it was stubbornness.

327

Maybe it was something else, but

you push those emotions away,

328

even after you experienced them.

329

You felt them, which is

something I even say.

330

You have to embrace it.

331

You have to feel comfortable about

it, so that, even after all that,

332

you keep moving that conversation,

that keep moving that piece forward,

333

which it leads me into really asking

you the crux of all this too that I

334

think really is a contributing factor.

335

You're a member of Toastmasters, and

for my longtime listeners, a lot of my

336

guests starting out on this show were

from Toastmasters, and I love talking to

337

people that are from Toastmasters that

have a membership, and they continue

338

to grow, and if you're a new listener,

I'm going to put in the episode notes

339

some information about Toastmasters.

340

Go check out a club local to you, whether

it's virtual, whether it's in person;

341

regardless of what it is, you can build

relationships, build some confidence

342

in your public speaking, and even

leadership, but Kelly, now that I've done

343

my sales pitch with Toastmasters, which

I haven't done in quite a while, you are

344

a member, and I'm sure it helps you so

much with your professional development,

345

being able to practice communication

skills with other Toastmasters, other

346

like minded individuals that are

trying to self improve themselves.

347

What would you say has been something

that has helped you with practicing

348

law, and has even helped you for

that matter working with clients,

349

that you could attest to that has

made you a lot stronger because of

350

being part of this organization?

351

Kelly: I'm really young still

to being a practicing attorney.

352

I'm only in my third year and the club

I'm a part of, the in person club,

353

which now virtual since I moved, but

the speeches I am giving, a lot of

354

them relate to what I've gone through

as a practicing attorney, and I like

355

to be able to tell that story, because

I have stories to tell as far as

356

learning, and figuring out my way as an

attorney, and they're there to listen.

357

I like crafting the speeches, and I

like getting those evaluations too,

358

because they provide this perspective

that I might not be able to see either,

359

and I like the fact that it's positive

reinforcement to those professional

360

career development goals, and just

being able to be in a group of like

361

minded people, just like you said, that

can provide that positive criticism so

362

that you can learn and grow from that.

363

Joshua: Has there been someone in

your club, or maybe even outside the

364

club, that you've been able to form

a connection with that has helped you

365

to continue growing in that journey?

366

Maybe they've served as a mentor for you.

367

If so, feel free to shout them out

if you like, and even give a reason

368

as to why they have helped you.

369

Kelly: Definitely.

370

My mentor is Virginia Sharp Marp.

371

She and I would get together for coffee

once a week, and she would sit me down,

372

and see how I was feeling and she would

ask about work, she would ask about

373

outside activities, and relate to me on my

level, and she would give me speech ideas

374

and she would just turn my negative into

positive also, because I was learning a

375

lot, and it was hard to absorb a lot of

that as a new attorney, but she was right

376

there with me the whole step of the way.

377

I had questions.

378

She had answers, and she just pushed

me forward, and propelled me further

379

than I could even imagine in just

my short three years of practice.

380

Joshua: When you say that

she's helped propelled you, do

381

you mean in a certain aspect?

382

Do you mean in a way in which it

helps you with your confidence?

383

I wonder if you can elaborate on that.

384

Kelly: Absolutely the confidence, because

a lot of the times I'd like to say I'm

385

confident, but it can kind of show if

I'm not, and Virginia is blunt, and

386

she will lay it on the table and say,

"This is what I'm getting from you, and

387

your vibe, and this is what I think is

something that we can work on.", and she

388

and I would work on positive mantras so

that I could build my confidence even

389

more, because I would tell her, "Oh!

390

I had such a low day.

391

Is this something that I should be

doing?", and she said, "Absolutely.

392

You worked so hard to get there,

and you're a testament to the

393

people in your field, and how you

can work best for your clients, and

394

just keep that up.", like, she was

always the positive to my negative.

395

Joshua: It's almost like the

ying to that yang, if you will.

396

Kelly: Definitely.

397

Joshua: Sometimes we need that, and I'm

wondering, as you were going through

398

all these different things in your

life that have really put you into

399

this position of, "If I stop now, I'm

not going to have this opportunity."

400

Is there a message in that, that you

feel that our listeners should grab from

401

that as they hear this conversation from

you today, because not only do you have

402

somebody that's helping you currently

with helping with your confidence and

403

giving you those skills, but you've talked

about the will set, the perseverance,

404

of pushing forward no matter what.

405

I know I'm probably stealing some

of that, because I'm like thinking,

406

"Wow, those are some great topics in

itself.", but yeah, I'm wondering.

407

What does that mean for you?

408

If there was something that my listeners

can take from you, from what they

409

have heard thus far, what would it be?

410

Kelly: Self doubt can be such a killer.

411

If you doubt yourself, how is

anybody going to believe in you?

412

You have to take it upon yourself to

realize everything you can offer this

413

world and show it off to the world,

because again, if you don't see it,

414

nobody else will see it, and you have

to project, even if it's just a moment

415

in time where you're just not feeling

it, you can pretend like you are, and

416

then other people will jump on that

ship with you, and with my journey, the

417

self doubt was real just every single

time I failed, and I wanted to quit.

418

I really, really did, but I had

that strong support system, and

419

honestly, times got rough too.

420

My mom and dad, they ended

up both passing away.

421

My mom died in 2018, and my dad died

422

supporters, aside from my brother,

and I wanted to know, why should I

423

keep going if they won't see me pass?

424

Why?

425

Why would I continue on this journey if

my biggest supporters won't see me pass?

426

It was the self doubt.

427

It really was.

428

I was telling myself there's no point

anymore, but, having been raised by two

429

Marines, and having my brother there,

I needed to push past that self doubt,

430

and I realized that there was more to

it than just failing, and so, I had to

431

find a solution and that's what I ended

up doing, and once I figured out why I

432

was failing, then I ended up passing.

433

Joshua: Yeah, and when we find that

key that helps to unlock what that is

434

inside of ourselves, maybe the things

that are self doubt, maybe for me,

435

and I've shared a little bit about

this before with you, Kelly, it was

436

really about my perseverance, even

when I felt like the world was crushing

437

down around me, and trying to take

everything away from me, I realized

438

that part of it is it wasn't the world.

439

It could be other people for sure,

but if you let them get the power

440

over you, I think that you're

never going to be able to do that.

441

You're never going to be able to overcome,

and I realized that, a year after I

442

tried to end my life, I sat around,

still in COVID lockdown, and I realized

443

that if I'm ever going to make a big

difference, I need to pick it up myself,

444

and ironically enough, with my long

term Toastmasters career, that's where I

445

picked it up too, is to go back into this

organization, so I loved the similarities

446

that we're talking about here.

447

Kelly, I want to give you one last

question here to wrap us up today, because

448

this has really been a great story to

hear from you about not only the power

449

of just keeping the commitment, keeping

the ability to not only know who you

450

are, but what your strength is, but if

there was one word that would describe

451

who you are that you want everybody to

know what you represent and what you

452

really are, and I know it's just one word,

so you got to sum her up in one word,

453

almost like a Table Topic that we do,

which for my listeners, is an impromptu

454

portion of our Toastmaster meetings.

455

What is that one word that

would describe you and why?

456

Kelly: If it's a Table Topic, it's

supposed to be one to two minutes.

457

Joshua: Well, we're going to

keep it shorter than that.

458

Kelly: One word to describe

me, I think would be tenacious,

459

because challenges are my thing.

460

If it seems like it can't be overcome

at this point, because I've passed

461

the bar, I know it can, and just

in general, I want to elaborate

462

just to the listeners real quick.

463

The one thing that was keeping me from

passing was a learning disability that

464

I was finally diagnosed with, so when I

got those accommodations, I passed, and

465

I was tenacious enough to go after it.

466

Joshua: Knowing what your disability

is, which I had one guest way back

467

in the very beginning tell me it's

about being differently enabled.

468

That's what the key is, is to be

able to unlock your differently

469

enabledness, to be able to pass because

we all have that equal opportunity,

470

but I'm glad you're tenacious.

471

I'm glad that you not only had the

opportunity to share your story today,

472

Kelly, but for you to be able to say that

you're a practicing attorney, despite

473

all the things that you have, trust me.

474

There are people looking at you and

watching you, even your mom and dad

475

for that matter, and for all those

reasons, Kelly, thanks so much for

476

being on Speaking From the Heart today.

477

Thanks for sharing this conversation

with me, and my listeners.

478

It was really a joy and an

honor to talk to you today.

479

Kelly: As it was for me too.

480

Thank you.

481

Joshua: I want to thank Kelly again

so much for being part of the show,

482

also sharing her story, giving me

something a little bit different to

483

talk about today, for sure, because

I know that for my listeners here,

484

we've heard a lot of different coaches.

485

We have a lot of different types

of opportunities to be able

486

to explore different concepts.

487

It's refreshing, sometimes, just to hear a

little bit of a story, just like Kelly's,

488

but I think that we learned a lot, even

from this, from a perspective that me,

489

as the coach this time, turning it over,

might want to be able to share a couple

490

things with you, so let's go through it,

because I think that we have to learn,

491

not only how we build structure in life,

but how we can develop those opportunities

492

around that structure to be able to

help us get to where we need to be.

493

I mean, imagine this that you are

the first person in your family to

494

graduate from different types of

schools to be able to then set the

495

tone, the direction, for all the

opportunities that happen thereafter.

496

Sure!

497

Other people might have already stepped

through it, and already had achieved

498

much success, but to know that Kelly's

story really resonates with this,

499

even in this world that we live in, I

think it's really beautiful to be able

500

to have somebody that grew up with

all these different opportunities,

501

all these different options, and she

was able to take advantage of it.

502

Kudos to you, Kelly, for being

able to do that, but even then, you

503

have to have those opportunities.

504

You have to have all those different

options available to you, and sometimes

505

living in this world that's chaotic,

especially if you're a military brat,

506

can also have all kinds of different

ways in which you're being manipulated.

507

You might be told to do this.

508

You might be told to do that.

509

Hearing ourselves even speak out loud

as to the opportunities that we can

510

have, to be able to hear our voices,

to find the resources and assistance,

511

can be also very temperamental.

512

It can put us into this staggering

pattern of always trying to strive to

513

be better, to be figuring out what is

it that we need to be doing in order for

514

that opportunity of a lifetime to occur.

515

Really, it begs the question, who

really saw the potential in you, and

516

I think that we heard a lot of that

in Kelly's story, that it's about

517

finding within ourselves what that

opportunity is, but allowing others to

518

see that we should be given a chance.

519

We should be not living towards a standard

that only dictates by a certain grade

520

whether we stay in or stay out of it.

521

I think that we've even learning and

evolving as a society that sometimes

522

grades, whether we're getting a letter

A, B, C, even D, don't always dictate

523

that we're doing the things that we

should be doing in a correct manner.

524

Of course we should be assessing

whether somebody is capable, but do

525

we need to use the grading system?

526

Does it mean that we have to be

determined by one set, one standard, in

527

which we're able to have that ultimate

achievement, because if that was the

528

case, I probably wouldn't be here today.

529

I wouldn't be able to share a

lot of my story, and even then,

530

would I want to be dictated by a

certain review of just one person?

531

Couldn't it be that maybe I just wasn't

a good fit for that person, and that

532

there are other opportunities out there

to engage, to feel like we're connected,

533

but I think that we learn the lesson

of life by just approaching it in a way

534

that, even with a grade that's given

to us, it's about how we respond to it;

535

how we actually move forward, that makes

all the difference, and I think that the

536

positive aspect of this is being able to

know what the difference is if we're just

537

willing to see that even if we are able

to approach things in a very different

538

way, in a way that we normally don't

approach things, we don't necessarily

539

have to approach them in a negative way.

540

You might not succeed once, you might

not succeed twice, three times, but

541

twelve times to be able to do something?

542

That takes guts!

543

That takes persistence, and those are

the examples that show you that the

544

human condition, the way in which we are

able to give direction and clarity, and

545

the things that we oftentimes are set

back on, really move us forward, so what

546

really holds you back then is really an

antithesis question, and it's a question

547

that we've asked repeatedly with other

coaches, with other people that we've

548

had, business owners for that matter.

549

I go back to several of my guests

in which I talk about why it was so

550

important for them to overcome that

stigma; that thing that was really

551

holding us back from really seeing the

true version of ourselves, and that's

552

really why I dig into it on this show.

553

It's why it's so important, because

each of our stories are different,

554

every single time that we go through it.

555

Even though that we have people that

come from all different walks of life,

556

we have to be respectful of the fact that

even if we fail, we are not a failure.

557

It doesn't mean that we get held back

by that emotion, by that persecution

558

that we're giving ourselves.

559

I think Kelly's story today really

exemplifies how we can lift that

560

layer of our life from where

it is now up to the next level.

561

Like minded people though, the people that

we surround ourselves with, being able

562

to find those opportunities to develop

ourselves, means that we have to create

563

that inner circle, and it's something

that I've even have mentioned to some

564

of my clients recently, which I'll be

even talking about more, on some future

565

monologue episodes, about the ways in

which we can create those opportunities

566

just by looking at ourselves.

567

What is it that we have in terms of sphere

of influence, and our inner circle, so I'm

568

excited to talk about those things with

you, but I don't want to spill the beans

569

now, but I will spill the beans on this.

570

If you take everything that you have,

and you show it off, it means that you

571

are essentially helping yourself to see

what kind of confidence that you have,

572

the ability to be able to overcome,

and it all means that we have to have

573

this process, whether it's through

cognitive means, whether it's through

574

talk therapy, whether it's through

some other activity that we engage in.

575

If we're able to say that we have this

ability to do something, that means that

576

we're really digging ourselves into our

ground, and saying that we are experts

577

beyond any kind of expert that we've seen

ourselves be before, and I think that's

578

where the beauty of true growth becomes.

579

That's where the true beauty of growth

begins, because I know how it is to

580

sometimes grow up in a world, especially

when you don't feel supported by

581

everybody, that really makes you kind of

question, "Should I really be doing this?

582

Is it really worth my time?

583

Is it really getting me

to where I need to go?"

584

I can't answer that for you today.

585

I know that it's so easy for me to try to

start answering that question, but if I

586

tried to, that would be really answering

my own point of view; my own perspective,

587

and that's something that even I have

wrestled with, because when we live in

588

this world that's kind of chaotic, and

it drags things out way longer than it

589

should be, when we're trying to figure

out how we can grow up with all these

590

kinds of opportunities that we have at

our disposal, if we're able to figure

591

out what kind of potential that we

have, those are the kind of questions

592

that really start to move us in the

direction that we really need to be going.

593

We need to stop struggling with the

fact that even though we have all these

594

standards, all these things that were

being set up, those are the things

595

that are often times the benchmarks.

596

They're making sure that there's

some sort of accountability.

597

It doesn't mean that you stop.

598

It just means that you keep applying.

599

You keep working on yourself.

600

You change the messaging of, "I can't do

it.", to that, "I can always find ways of

601

improving.", and it's weird that as I say

that, I'm reading a chart that I recently

602

got in the mail that I ordered from this

company called Displate, which I'm not

603

being sponsored by the company by any

means, but if you go to www.displate.com,

604

it's metal posters that you can order.

605

When you order these metal posters,

there's all kinds of different

606

options, whether you have Marvel

characters, whether you have famous

607

quotes from movies, regardless of

what it is, you can have any type

608

of image, and be able to paste it

on your wall, and put it somewhere.

609

I just recently put this poster up

about how you can change your words

610

from a fixed mindset to a growth

mindset, and I just read one of those

611

things off for you that really makes

me start to think that it isn't about

612

the standards that are being set.

613

It's about what we encounter as

the standards of what other people

614

have set, and how we respond to

them makes all the difference.

615

It's so easy in this world to get

trapped in all the negativity, all the

616

different types of discussions that

are happening on social media, all the

617

different things that are happening

that are sensationalized by negative

618

coverage of the news, but when we

actually start to dig deeper than that

619

and actually explore what the potential

possibilities are of what our lives can

620

be surrounded with, what we can create,

it starts to really challenge the status

621

quo of what it really means to create

opportunities; what it really means

622

to show yourself off; what it really

means, in one word, being tenacious that

623

really holds us from not just becoming

the best versions of ourselves, but how

624

we can break free of being held back.

625

It doesn't have to be dictated by a grade.

626

You heard it in Kelly's story today.

627

It really wasn't!

628

It was actually something quite different,

and I think that you need to learn, just

629

like how I need to learn, what it means

to be able to keep on persevering, to

630

keep moving yourself in a direction that

unifies not only what you want to work on,

631

but what your future self wants to become.

632

Some people take the wrong path:

drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse.

633

Sometimes they succumb to all those

weaknesses, and that's something that

634

even as a human condition, we have

to address, but on this show, we have

635

featured success stories every single

time, of the people, the places, the

636

things that have been done, and how those

people have overcome adversity, and have

637

seen themselves in a whole new light.

638

As this episode airs, this ends a second

series of all kinds of interviews that I

639

did earlier this year, and I'm so happy

about all the guests that I had up to this

640

point, being able to demonstrate this,

just as much as Kelly has today, of this

641

concept of persistence, the ability to

be tenacious when all things are lost.

642

As we move forward into a new series of

different guests that even start with

643

a local guest that I'm excited to share

with you during our next Thursday episode,

644

it reminds me of how far we can come by

just examining not only what people's

645

stories are, but how those stories have

turned into success, how we've been

646

able to not be graded by the past, but

how we've been able to move ourselves

647

into clarity and direction by simply

challenging what that emotion is, what

648

we have inside of ourselves, and being

willing to stand tall to show it off.

649

Regardless of whether you come from a

military family, whether you are the

650

first generation, second generation,

graduating from college or a trade

651

school, regardless of what kinds of

things that you might have happening in

652

your life, just remember, to become the

best version of yourself, it isn't just

653

about the relationships, confidence, and

determination that we've consistently

654

talked about throughout this whole series.

655

It's been about seeing that you are

really the most authentic creature that

656

has ever existed, and being able to speak

from the heart, not only in ways that

657

create positivity, not only in ways that

allow you to keep moving forward, but in

658

ways in which you are not only amazing,

but you're powerful as well, and by that

659

power, you have all the opportunities

to develop yourself in some amazing ways

660

that I'm excited to keep on exploring

with you on Speaking From The Heart.

661

Thanks for listening to episode

number 160 of Speaking From The

662

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart, very soon.

663

Outro: Thanks for listening.

664

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

665

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

666

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

667

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

668

See you next time.