Shownotes
Topics:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:40 The Submarine Fiasco: A Deep Dive
03:20 The Politics of Nuclear Submarines
03:42 Australia's Relationship with China
05:07 The South China Sea: A Strategic Perspective
06:24 The French Connection: A Failed Deal
08:24 The Future of Australia's Defense
11:13 The Impact of Trade Relations on National Security
14:42 The Role of Media in Shaping Public Opinion
19:11 The AUKUS Agreement: A New Era of Alliance
23:54 The Power of Imagery in Politics
46:40 Critique of Mr. Christensen's Climate Change Argument
47:13 Discussion on Huawei's Technological Achievements
47:58 The Controversy Surrounding Huawei's Involvement in Global Telecommunications
48:48 The Arrest and Detention of Huawei's CFO
49:48 The Alleged Fraud Involving Huawei and Skycam
50:43 The Impact of US Trade Embargo on Iran
51:10 China's Retaliatory Actions Against Canada
52:31 The Media's Portrayal of China's Actions
53:03 The Control of Media Engagement by Political Parties
53:38 The Importance of Open Debate in Politics
55:29 The Plight of the Biloela Family
58:57 The Controversy Surrounding Christian Porter's Blind Trust
01:02:21 The Impact of COVID-19 on Elections
01:03:24 The Consequences of Not Getting Vaccinated
01:04:53 The Political Implications of Vaccination Policies
01:15:02 The Treatment of Unvaccinated Workers in Germany
01:23:20 The Challenges Faced by Health Professionals During the Pandemic
01:26:47 Closing Remarks
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Transcripts
Pre recorded, completely unscripted and about as organised as the thought
Speaker:processes of some members of the Australian Senate, you're listening to
Speaker:news, views and opinions on events from here at home and around the globe on
Speaker:politics, business and society in general.
Speaker:This is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:Hello and welcome.
Speaker:This is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast, coming to you from Australia.
Speaker:This is a podcast where we talk about news and politics and sex and religion.
Speaker:I, of course, am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist.
Speaker:With me, as always, is Joe the Tech Guy.
Speaker:Morning all.
Speaker:And returning like the prodigal son that he is, Scott the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:G'day Trevor, g'day Joe, g'day listeners.
Speaker:How are you all?
Speaker:It's been a while.
Speaker:So anyway, I'm coming in to you from Mackay, which is in North
Speaker:Queensland, and it's actually warmed up quite a lot, so I've turned on
Speaker:the air conditioner tonight, so yeah.
Speaker:Okay, it's warm enough up there for the air conditioner, and
Speaker:it's good to have you with us.
Speaker:Scott, we were talking about it earlier that we Pleased to be back.
Speaker:I played the sort of highlights of our submarine talks over the years, and
Speaker:it was good to hear your voice, and then, Uh, dear listener, Shea is away.
Speaker:She's in Perth at the moment, and despite being given strict
Speaker:instructions to take her microphone and stuff with her, she forgot.
Speaker:And so, so anyway, Shea won't be with us tonight or the next week, but
Speaker:whenever she gets back from Perth, she'll be back and Scott's filling in.
Speaker:So just a cameo role, Scott, and good to have you.
Speaker:And of course, very much, if you're in the chat room, say hello, and
Speaker:Dire Straits, John Semmon says hello.
Speaker:And so tonight, what are we going to talk about?
Speaker:Well, of course we're going to talk about submarines.
Speaker:With Scott here and with what's been going on, we have to talk about submarines and,
Speaker:oh, a bunch of other things, but you know what, who knows if we'll even get to them
Speaker:because submarines are going to take a bit of, a bit of effort to go through.
Speaker:So, so let's kick off with a submarine discussion.
Speaker:And, you know, where do you begin with this fiasco?
Speaker:And my main point is I'm just so disappointed in, in the regular press.
Speaker:Not only just the Murdoch press, where I have very low expectations, but even
Speaker:the other press, like the Guardian and places like that, just really poor
Speaker:coverage of the whole submarine fiasco.
Speaker:So, they really demonstrated, even the people, you know, the ABC, Laura
Speaker:Tingle, people like this who should know something about these issues,
Speaker:just clearly know nothing about them.
Speaker:And that's what sort of disappointed me the most.
Speaker:So, the ABC and other groups, you know.
Speaker:Basically allowed the government in the first few days to sort of spin a
Speaker:story which was, wow, we're getting nuclear, so it's okay to ditch France.
Speaker:And, and how wonderful it is that the USA thinks we're so special that we're
Speaker:getting these nuclear submarines.
Speaker:And the only two places that I saw any criticism of this in the early days
Speaker:was Crikey, where Bernard Kean says, strange, I could swear the government
Speaker:has utterly screwed up a hundred billion dollar submarine program.
Speaker:Well, all I'm reading about is how exciting it is that we're going nuclear.
Speaker:And of course, the John Menardieu blog was going crazy with submarine articles.
Speaker:So, Scott, your thoughts when you heard about the, the deal, the dumping
Speaker:of the French, the signing, well, the signing up to some vague deal
Speaker:with the Americans or the Brits, what were your initial thoughts?
Speaker:Okay, my initial thoughts were probably a little bit different to yours.
Speaker:I wasn't excited.
Speaker:But I also felt that we really had no choice, because I believe
Speaker:that China has treated Australia like shit for six to nine months.
Speaker:And if we had a government that had decent pay, they'd actually say to China,
Speaker:fine, you don't want to buy our barley or our wine, we're not going to sell
Speaker:you any of our fucking iron ore either.
Speaker:Pardon the language.
Speaker:But I do get rather angry and frustrated over this whole thing.
Speaker:Now, so hang on, so you're thinking because of our poor
Speaker:relationship with China.
Speaker:Yeah, it was a, it was a good, I a good idea to, I can go nuclear.
Speaker:Well, I can understand why the government decided to go nuclear now.
Speaker:I honestly believe that we went to nuclear because we were under pressure from the
Speaker:United States to get involved and do.
Speaker:Uh, freedom of navigation operations through the South China Sea.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. And with a nuclear powered submarine, you could get there without a problem.
Speaker:You could get there and back without a problem.
Speaker:Now I'm not sure whether the distance would be what we could get there
Speaker:without a problem and get back.
Speaker:Just being there would be a problem, wouldn't it?
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah, we could get there and back without a problem.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Assuming that China doesn't then depth charges and that sort of shit while
Speaker:we're there, then we've got problems.
Speaker:What, what do we wanna do while we are there?
Speaker:In the South China Sea with our nuclear submarine, what exactly
Speaker:do we want to do over there?
Speaker:I'm not, you didn't let me finish.
Speaker:I'm not convinced we should be over there.
Speaker:However, I can understand why the Yanks wanted to provide us with
Speaker:nuclear submarines so we could get over there without a problem.
Speaker:Yeah, from their point of view, I can fully understand it.
Speaker:Yeah, so can I.
Speaker:Because now they've fully armed their deputy sheriff in this neighbourhood.
Speaker:So they've fully armed the deputy sheriff in this neighbourhood.
Speaker:So, we could go over there, we could do Freedom of Navigation operations
Speaker:over there and move forward.
Speaker:Okay, let's, let's just put some structure to this, Scott.
Speaker:So first up, first up, the deal with the French had to end at some
Speaker:point because it was going to be impossible to build these submarines.
Speaker:It was going to be impossible to build these submarines because they were, they
Speaker:were trying to Reverse engineer something that was supposed to be a nuclear powered
Speaker:submarine, but they were going to reverse engineer it to put in a diesel electric.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Which was never going to work.
Speaker:And basically, submarine experts said they couldn't imagine a more
Speaker:complicated or risky procedure to do.
Speaker:In terms of major technology with a large infrastructure piece like that.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So we had to We should have just bought them off the
Speaker:shelf from Japan and moved on.
Speaker:Okay, well then why If that's the case, Scott, so we both
Speaker:agree the deal had to end.
Speaker:Everybody agrees on that because it was a stupid deal.
Speaker:If you're saying we should have I think the way it was ended, it was wrong.
Speaker:Yeah, okay.
Speaker:I think that we should have ended it a little nicer than the way we did.
Speaker:Okay, but you said we should have in the beginning, I've
Speaker:bought some cheap Japanese ones.
Speaker:So why shouldn't we have bought them now?
Speaker:Why not buy those cheap Japanese ones now?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:That's the whole point.
Speaker:There's obviously been some sort of discussion between the United States
Speaker:and Australia about Australia's role in trying to keep China in check, you know,
Speaker:because that's, that's what it looks like.
Speaker:That's what it smells like to me is that there's been some sort of
Speaker:involvement to get us involved, have the ability to travel that far north
Speaker:to be a pain in the ass to the Chinese.
Speaker:Well, let's face it, a nuclear powered submarine is, is used for
Speaker:attacking other countries, right?
Speaker:That's why they call them attack class submarines.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And really, as Australians, shouldn't we just be worried about defending ourselves?
Speaker:One would have thought so.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Which is why I think we would have been better off buying the cheaper,
Speaker:smaller Japanese submarines.
Speaker:They could have just patrolled in the water close to Australia.
Speaker:Had they have got, had anyone actually come in here, we could have sent them
Speaker:further north, torpedoed them on the way down here until they got into
Speaker:the range of our surface to surface ballistic missiles, which would
Speaker:then neutralize the invading fleet.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:And by that stage the Yanks would have got involved in that sort of stuff, you know.
Speaker:That's probably why we, that's probably why we put Americans, um, that's
Speaker:probably why we put Marines up there in Darwin, because if history tells us
Speaker:anything you've got to kill Americans to get them involved in the war.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Joe the tech guy, you got any thoughts on this submarine defensive,
Speaker:offensive choice of submarine at all?
Speaker:I know that the Navy are quite keen for a, an offensive role.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Um, but the, the, the, Need for it.
Speaker:But yeah, it seems silly that nuclear submarines make sense in terms of a fuel.
Speaker:The one place you do want nuclear reactors are in long range naval vessels.
Speaker:Absolutely, and I agree wholeheartedly with you.
Speaker:So if we did have a real reason to be in the South China Sea, then I agree
Speaker:we should have a nuclear submarine.
Speaker:We don't have a good reason to be there.
Speaker:It was interesting reading the comments about, we think France as being
Speaker:Europe, but actually there's French Polynesia and there is New Caledonia,
Speaker:which are literally on our doorstep.
Speaker:And so France has a lot of territory just east of us.
Speaker:Which they're very keen on defending and that's why they
Speaker:wanted the bilateral relationship.
Speaker:Nasty.
Speaker:Go on, keep going, sorry.
Speaker:Well, any expansionist, including the Americans.
Speaker:Everyone knows that China's had its eye on Tahiti for a long time, you know.
Speaker:No, I don't think China is expansionist.
Speaker:I honestly don't believe China is expansionist.
Speaker:China just wants China just wants its own territory back.
Speaker:They want to reverse the hundred years of humiliation.
Speaker:That's why they've started suppressing everything in Hong Kong and Macau.
Speaker:China is not going to try and take back anything.
Speaker:It's not going to try and take anything new.
Speaker:They're only interested in conquering their old territory.
Speaker:They want Taiwan back.
Speaker:They want Hong Kong back.
Speaker:You know, I can understand that point of view, however, I honestly believe
Speaker:they've got to take a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror and
Speaker:say, Well, yeah, we might call it a renegade province, but it's been
Speaker:a renegade province ever since the end of the revolution, and I don't
Speaker:think we can ever have it back.
Speaker:You know, I think that they've got to negotiate.
Speaker:I think that what would be good is if China actually sat down with Taiwan
Speaker:and negotiated away the whole argument over the South China Sea and, you
Speaker:know, if Taiwan dropped their claim to the South China Sea, China would
Speaker:then drop their claim to Taiwan.
Speaker:You know, that is what I believe would be a reasonable position to get to, but
Speaker:I don't think you're going to get that.
Speaker:It's a bit like Mexico.
Speaker:They really have to give up their claim to Texas and California and Arizona.
Speaker:Just forget about it, really, and move on.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it's one of those things.
Speaker:Like, Mexico probably has a reasonable historical claim to those territories.
Speaker:However, they were, they were pinched by the Americans.
Speaker:They've got a better, you're right, they've got a better claim.
Speaker:Yeah, they were pinched by the Americans and, you know, they're just
Speaker:going to have to move on from it.
Speaker:Let's give a little bit of history here.
Speaker:So, the whole debacle had its genesis in liberal leadership tensions.
Speaker:So, Tony Abbott, had the correct idea to purchase the vessels off
Speaker:the shelf from overseas, probably Japan, at considerably lower cost.
Speaker:He actually had quite a good relationship with the Japanese Prime Minister of
Speaker:the day, but there was bad polling in South Australia and upcoming
Speaker:leadership battle with Malcolm Turnbull.
Speaker:So, because of political reasons, saw him change his mind and plumb
Speaker:for the building of these submarines locally in South Australia.
Speaker:in conjunction with the French, knowing that it would probably add
Speaker:about 30 to 40 percent to the price.
Speaker:So, really, the Japanese thought they had the deal.
Speaker:And I was very surprised when they lost it to the French and the French, one of
Speaker:the reasons they won was this promise about local sort of building that would
Speaker:happen in South Australia and the, the Japanese were a bit late in, in, in
Speaker:getting clued up to the need to say that.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:So that's how, and really at the time, they didn't even contemplate having
Speaker:the nuclear powered version from the French, as if it was just completely
Speaker:off the table, and, you know, there wasn't like there was a major discussion
Speaker:in Australia about it, they didn't, it just, it was never on the table
Speaker:to sort of think about the nuclear powered version from the French.
Speaker:I think because they were worried that they couldn't service them, because we
Speaker:don't have a nuclear powered version.
Speaker:We don't have a civilian nuclear industry here, which means you
Speaker:couldn't service the reactors here.
Speaker:So, surely we could train people to do it.
Speaker:I don't understand why we couldn't, uh, we've got smart
Speaker:people here, surely it can't be that hard if the French can do it.
Speaker:We've got one nuclear reactor in Australia and that's at Lucas Heights, which
Speaker:is in the western suburbs of Sydney.
Speaker:Now, I don't believe it's big enough to provide you with the fuel rods and
Speaker:everything else that you're going to need to power a nuclear powered submarine.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So what would you actually need to do is you would have to have a very
Speaker:long conversation with the public.
Speaker:You have to sell them on the whole idea of a civilian nuclear industry in Australia
Speaker:before you could then say to the French, yes, we'll buy your nuclear submarines,
Speaker:or they'd have to duck back over to France once or twice a year or something.
Speaker:I think the French version of the submarine lasts about, the fuel
Speaker:rods last about seven to 10 years.
Speaker:Whereas the American version lasts about 25 years or something like that.
Speaker:So, so really it would have just meant.
Speaker:You know, uh, shipping them over to France and replacing the rods
Speaker:and bringing them back again.
Speaker:I believe the Americans were concerned about French technicians
Speaker:being on American, seeing American secrets on board the ships.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:One of the problems was we were always going to put American weapons in them.
Speaker:And the Americans were worried that the French would learn too much
Speaker:about the American weapons and that they had breaches in their security
Speaker:and secrets would leak out through the French system in installing the
Speaker:American weapons in these submarines.
Speaker:So that's, that was part of their concern.
Speaker:So would they not have a problem with the Japanese finding out about
Speaker:American secrets aboard submarines that the Japanese had to service for us?
Speaker:I think they trusted the Japanese not to leak to the Russians.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah, so, but here's one point.
Speaker:Yeah, one point about all this, and we'll get on to the French and
Speaker:how they've been treated, but in my view, the French should never have
Speaker:agreed to such a stupid contract.
Speaker:So Absolutely.
Speaker:They should have said, they should have said it's nuclear or nothing.
Speaker:Yes, indeed.
Speaker:So when you're a supplier of something, you sometimes don't
Speaker:sell something if you know it's not appropriate for your customer.
Speaker:So I'm in the selling game and, you know, we'll deal with art shops who might be
Speaker:looking at certain products and we'll look at their shop and their, their
Speaker:clientele and we'll say, look, I know you're really keen on this particular
Speaker:product, but from what I've seen of your business, this isn't going to suit you.
Speaker:It's not going to sell well and you're going to spend a lot of money
Speaker:and in six months time, the stock's still going to be here and you're
Speaker:not going to be happy with me.
Speaker:So, because I want a long term relationship with you, I really think
Speaker:you shouldn't buy this product and maybe buy this other thing or, or whatever.
Speaker:But, you know, at times we've said to people, we're not going to sell you this
Speaker:product even though you want it because we just don't think it's good for you.
Speaker:And the French should have done the same thing in this case.
Speaker:There's another example I can think of, friends of mine in the mining industry.
Speaker:Where they're selling technology to other mines and this particular technology,
Speaker:one customer wanted to use it with a mineral and it hadn't really been used
Speaker:with that mineral before and they sold them the technology and of course they're
Speaker:now having huge problems at this mine site because it's just not working with
Speaker:this particular mineral and, and that company is now going to badmouth this
Speaker:technology around the world and it's causing them enormous headaches and they
Speaker:really should not have sold the technology to them without You know, a lot of
Speaker:more testing and, and really sometimes you just have to say no when somebody
Speaker:wants to buy a stupid idea from you.
Speaker:So, while I've got some sympathy for the French, so there's that, there's
Speaker:also, it seemed that while the contract, the idea of the contract was that lots
Speaker:of work was supposed to be done in South Australia and the French were
Speaker:always sort of backing out of that, of trying to get as much work being
Speaker:done in France rather than Australia.
Speaker:So that was another thing that was going on.
Speaker:But we really, you know, according to reports, the day before the announcement,
Speaker:we had written to the French, saying we're happy with everything, it's
Speaker:all smooth sailing, literally.
Speaker:And then the next day, Morrison, after informing the Indians and the
Speaker:Japanese and the Americans that he was going to cancel the sub deal.
Speaker:And then inform the French by text message.
Speaker:Just, that's not it, Trevor.
Speaker:Very poor form.
Speaker:You know, it really was extraordinarily poor form on Morrison's behalf.
Speaker:You know, he's extraordinarily clumsy with his international standing with people.
Speaker:He just doesn't seem to get it, does he?
Speaker:He's just a bully, and a prick, and that's how he deals with people,
Speaker:whoever he comes across, so, yeah.
Speaker:At least he didn't throw in to show up front him.
Speaker:No, that's true.
Speaker:Maybe he did, we just don't know.
Speaker:So, yeah, so, So what else have I got here in my notes, so, So, Yeah, not a
Speaker:squeak from the media about how bad the initial deal was, just how wonderful,
Speaker:well first of all, how wonderfully quiet these nuclear subs are, and dear
Speaker:listener, the way it works is, well they're quieter than the diesel when
Speaker:they're operating, but a diesel you can actually shut off and convert to battery
Speaker:power, and that's, that is silent.
Speaker:Whereas the nuclear, um, power plant can never be shut down and
Speaker:the coolant is always running, so.
Speaker:A nuclear ship on idle is noisier than a diesel that's
Speaker:switched off and is on electric.
Speaker:So, if I was sitting in a sub in the north of Australia and I had
Speaker:been told by reconnaissance that the enemy ships are about a day
Speaker:away, heading directly towards me.
Speaker:I ideally would like to be in a nice small sub, diesel electric, that I
Speaker:would then be switching straight onto electric for a few days while I waited
Speaker:for them to come and pop them off.
Speaker:And I reckon that would be the safest option for me if I was a submariner
Speaker:looking to take on somebody.
Speaker:So, of course, if I wanted to go over to the South China Sea and start launching
Speaker:missiles, I'd rather be in a nuclear sub.
Speaker:That's, you know, what are we there for?
Speaker:What are we using it for?
Speaker:That's the important part.
Speaker:None of that's, um, being said.
Speaker:And that's the whole point.
Speaker:I don't know what it is being used for.
Speaker:It's clearly something that the Yanks have actually said to the Australians.
Speaker:We're going to give you the arms.
Speaker:We need you to take the fight up to the Chinese.
Speaker:So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if, if at some point a mistake
Speaker:happens and a torpedo is accidentally fired at something, you know, it's
Speaker:could get out of control very quickly.
Speaker:So let me see what else I've got here in my notes.
Speaker:It's just about cost effectiveness as well.
Speaker:Like you can get so much.
Speaker:You know, when you're talking about a small diesel electric
Speaker:sub, they are so much cheaper than these massive nuclear submarines.
Speaker:You can have so many more of them littered around the place, and the
Speaker:Collins class, so that's our current submarine, they're 3, 000 tonnes.
Speaker:The now abandoned French designed attack class, we're going to be 4, 500 tons.
Speaker:And the American and British that we're now looking at are more than 7, 000 tons.
Speaker:So it's two and a bit times the size of our current submarine.
Speaker:And that requires a lot of people to man these things.
Speaker:It's one of the hardest parts about operating a submarine fleet.
Speaker:It's finding people who want to work in one, and having these big monsters
Speaker:needing lots of people in them, it's going to be difficult to find the
Speaker:people to actually run these things.
Speaker:And if you think about it, in wartime, when you've got a massive investment
Speaker:in a sub, where you've spent, you know, 8 billion on one vessel,
Speaker:you'll, you get scared to use it.
Speaker:You are worried about the cost of having that thing bound and sunk.
Speaker:And if you actually have much, you know, eight billion dollar subs, if
Speaker:you like, you end up, you can take more aggressive and appropriate action.
Speaker:So, they've certainly found in wartime that with some of the large aircraft
Speaker:carriers and other large vessels, there's They've become a little bit ineffective
Speaker:because the fear of losing them.
Speaker:There's such, so much money is poured into these things.
Speaker:So, so anyway, what have we got?
Speaker:We, we haven't even signed up.
Speaker:We've got a dozen of them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, the thing is we haven't even signed up to anything.
Speaker:All we've got is just a deal, which is we're going to have a study for 18 months.
Speaker:And we're going to talk to the Americans and the British about
Speaker:What we might like to have at the end of that 18 month period.
Speaker:Well, the deal is that they're willing to transfer the technology to us, I think.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But the actual cost and design and all the rest of it, we haven't struck any deal.
Speaker:And no, we haven't done that.
Speaker:And at this point, if you're the British or the Americans selling
Speaker:the subs, you know that, well, what's Australia going to do?
Speaker:They're not, they can't go To the French, who else is going to want to deal with us?
Speaker:It's not like there's a competitive process now.
Speaker:So, we're just going to have to accept the least worst option of
Speaker:whatever this study comes up with.
Speaker:Like, we've really, uh, screwed ourselves in terms of options of international
Speaker:players who could participate in this.
Speaker:I mean, don't the Russians have some spare nuclear submarines they can sell us?
Speaker:You know, the smart thing would have been to say to the French,
Speaker:hey guys, big mistake a few years made by these dunderheads.
Speaker:Obviously, this isn't working.
Speaker:We're going to have to go nuclear, if that's, you know, what we're going to say.
Speaker:Why don't you give us a tender price on making these nuclear?
Speaker:And then we're going to compare that to a tender price from the US and the UK.
Speaker:Something like, keep the French in, and say to them,
Speaker:that's, why didn't we do that?
Speaker:We'd had an agreement with them to build this other ship.
Speaker:The Americans were going to put weapons in there.
Speaker:It was all agreed to.
Speaker:It would have been so easy just to say to the French.
Speaker:Give us a quote on making it nuclear, and everyone would have been happy.
Speaker:Yeah, but you're dealing with a group of clowns that think they're business people,
Speaker:but they don't understand business.
Speaker:They don't.
Speaker:They don't understand.
Speaker:You know, because that, that is, that is honestly the first thing a business
Speaker:person would do is say to get two competitors, sit them down and say, Right.
Speaker:You give me a quote, you give me your best price, and then
Speaker:we'll make a decision after that.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I'm surprised they haven't opted for coal fired actually.
Speaker:Yes, that's right.
Speaker:Smart coal, clean coal.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So, so okay.
Speaker:One of the things in this is, is just the acceptance in the media in these reports.
Speaker:That we need these subs because of the growing threat from China and even, you
Speaker:know, the Guardian will say something like US, UK and Australia, forge alliance
Speaker:to counter China and it's just accepted that there's this Chinese threat.
Speaker:Well, they released the virus on us.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:So they're done with us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Honestly, it's just getting ridiculous.
Speaker:This, you know, what has China been doing that is so aggressive?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They're not buying our shit.
Speaker:What are we doing to France?
Speaker:We're not buying their shit.
Speaker:You know, this, this whole we're at war with China is, is 1984
Speaker:playing out in 2021 in Australia.
Speaker:We've always been at war with East Asia, I mean China.
Speaker:It was only in 2014 that we signed a free trade agreement with Xi Jinping.
Speaker:And he was in our federal parliament and being lauded, not only by Tony
Speaker:Abbott, but by the entire Murdoch press in what a great deal it was, the free
Speaker:trade agreement, how wonderful it was.
Speaker:That was all Labor's fault.
Speaker:How wonderful it was to bring our countries together.
Speaker:This was only in 2014.
Speaker:And what have the Chinese done since that time in terms of aggression
Speaker:beyond not buying your shit?
Speaker:And.
Speaker:Is that it?
Speaker:Is that it?
Speaker:Scott, you think there's massive No, I don't think there's massive provocation.
Speaker:I just honestly believe that China has behaved very abruptly, curtly, whatever
Speaker:you want to call it, to Australia.
Speaker:They have treated us very badly for a long time.
Speaker:But not by stuff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:But not buying stuff.
Speaker:But also they've gone in there and they've said, they've made all sorts of comments
Speaker:about, you know, you wanna make sure if you're gonna travel to Australia, because
Speaker:we are hearing reports that Indians are having the little shit kicked out
Speaker:of them, that there's racism across in every street and all that sort of thing.
Speaker:There is that sort of stuff that the Chinese government has actually
Speaker:put out and have we done anything?
Speaker:Have we done anything that might have.
Speaker:Have we caused them to say that?
Speaker:Have we, have we accused them of human rights abuses that they might say?
Speaker:Oh yeah, but the Uyghurs, that is a human rights abuse, what they're doing there.
Speaker:They're locking them up.
Speaker:You know, that is, that is clear cut a human rights abuse.
Speaker:Now, have we actually said that publicly?
Speaker:Yes, we have.
Speaker:Now, you know, the most, Offensive thing I think Australia has done was
Speaker:when ScoMo said we've got to send in weapons, we've got to send in inspectors
Speaker:with weapons inspector like powers.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:That was wrong.
Speaker:It was clearly a wrong thing to do.
Speaker:And that is why.
Speaker:And that's what kicked off most of these.
Speaker:I'm, I agree wholeheartedly with you.
Speaker:That is most of what, most of what's kicked it off.
Speaker:Just, just to recap here.
Speaker:I mean, this really is 1984 with, you know, we're at one moment, we're
Speaker:all with East Asia, and then we were.
Speaker:Then we change and we're always at war with Eurasia or whatever, I mean.
Speaker:This is 2014.
Speaker:So, he, Tony Abbott boasted about his history making trade deal
Speaker:with China as one of his greatest achievements as Prime Minister.
Speaker:He's since said that it was wishful thinking and he had
Speaker:a very benign view of China.
Speaker:But similar Mia Culpers haven't been forthcoming from the coalitions.
Speaker:Stenographers and cheerleaders in the Murdoch press.
Speaker:So, Paul Kelly from The Australian has never admitted he was wrong
Speaker:in lauding the deal as, quote, a moment of transformation, of global
Speaker:significance, pointing the way to a glorious future in which an astute
Speaker:she would pull Australia Far closer into China's orbit in coming years.
Speaker:This is all from the Australian, so let me just see here.
Speaker:This is what they, this is what Kelly was saying at the time.
Speaker:The upshot is that China has gone beyond most Australian expectations
Speaker:in the free trade agreement.
Speaker:This is a strategic economic decision by Beijing that constitutes the
Speaker:platform for a wider partnership.
Speaker:It contradicts, again, so much of the misguided local commentary
Speaker:suggesting the Abbott government was risking relations with China.
Speaker:In his speech, an astute Xi bypassed any potential source of trouble.
Speaker:For Abbott, the speech was pure upside.
Speaker:China is playing a long and clever game with Australia.
Speaker:The message is writ large.
Speaker:Australia and China are going places together.
Speaker:This is from The Australian.
Speaker:Greg Sheridan lauded the deal and insisted that there is not the slightest
Speaker:evidence that any Australian tradie would be a loser under this agreement and he
Speaker:was scathing in his criticism of Dan Andrews because Dan Andrews questioned
Speaker:whether it was all upside in this thing.
Speaker:So, and he, he basically poo pooed Labor for questioning whether this
Speaker:free trade agreement was all as wonderful as being, was being painted.
Speaker:So now, seven years later, and really it's been happening.
Speaker:You could probably say a couple of years ago it started, probably five
Speaker:years later, and I think in 1984 it was every five years that the enemy changed.
Speaker:So now, News Corp and the government now insist exactly the opposite,
Speaker:that Labor is too soft on China, indeed has fallen into China's trap.
Speaker:In the words of an Australian editorial in December, Sheridan's reversal
Speaker:has been particularly risible.
Speaker:In 2015, he was criticising Daniel Andrews.
Speaker:Last year, he was complaining that Andrews has handed China a propaganda victory for
Speaker:signing up to a Belt and Road Agreement.
Speaker:So, editorial writers in the Australian have gone from declaring under the
Speaker:Free Trade Agreement, we welcome Chinese investment in Australia,
Speaker:to Cheering the government's blocking of Chinese investment.
Speaker:Like, you really have to understand how quickly this has just turned around.
Speaker:And they haven't fired a single Someone called you Darwin.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And what, has China fired a single missile at us?
Speaker:What have we done?
Speaker:It's plenty of provocation, where we said We made a very provocative statement when
Speaker:we said that we should send in inspectors with weapons inspector like powers.
Speaker:And that was wrong, it was very wrong, and it was completely
Speaker:clumsy of Morrison to say it.
Speaker:Yeah, and also, we're complaining that they're not buying our shit.
Speaker:Meanwhile, they wanted to bring Huawei in here and set up 5G.
Speaker:And they wanted to buy different infrastructure things, dairy farms and
Speaker:stuff, and we said no, you can't buy it.
Speaker:So, now I agree, we shouldn't allow China, Huawei, to set up 5G.
Speaker:There are some things you just can't allow, but, but people have
Speaker:to be able to view this from the other person's point of view.
Speaker:You have to be able to put yourself in the place of the Chinese who are a
Speaker:superpower and this pissy little nation down here is having a big whinge fest.
Speaker:Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So now, the other thing with all this, of course, is right at this moment, we're
Speaker:trying to get a trade deal with the EU.
Speaker:Yeah, we just pissed the French off.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:So, you know, he is, he was incredibly stupid of Morrison because, you know,
Speaker:he didn't understand that with Angela Merkel stepping down, the de facto
Speaker:presidency of Europe was slotting over to Micron, you know, to, what's his name?
Speaker:Macron.
Speaker:Macron.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He was, he was slotting over to Macron.
Speaker:And yet he just, Upset the French.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:You know, so our one ally in those whole EU trade negotiations is to turn
Speaker:around and tell them to get stuffed.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And so the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said, One of
Speaker:our member states has been treated in a way that is not acceptable.
Speaker:So we want to know what has happened and why.
Speaker:Adding that the situation must be clarified, quote, Before you keep
Speaker:on going with business as usual.
Speaker:Quote, unquote.
Speaker:Meanwhile, our Trade Minister, Dan Tehan, if that's not depressing enough for
Speaker:you, Dan Tehan says, it's just very much business as usual when it comes to our
Speaker:negotiations on that free trade agreement.
Speaker:Jesus Christ.
Speaker:EU Commission saying, you need to explain yourselves here,
Speaker:it's not business as usual.
Speaker:Dan Tehan is saying, oh, I think it is.
Speaker:Meanwhile, at the very same time, in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker:Australia is opposing China's bid to join a trade pact until it halts
Speaker:its strikes against our exports.
Speaker:So, so China on Thursday formally applied to join the world's biggest
Speaker:trading agreement, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans
Speaker:Pacific Partnership, but it will require the unanimous support of all
Speaker:the PAC's members to be admitted.
Speaker:It was signed by 11 countries including Australia, Canada, Chile,
Speaker:Japan and New Zealand in 2018.
Speaker:China wants to join.
Speaker:Australia's Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, and Trade Minister, Dan
Speaker:Tehan, who says parties to the agreement must have a track record of compliance
Speaker:with existing trade agreements and World Trade Organisation commitments.
Speaker:And Dan Tehan says Australia will oppose China's bid to join a key
Speaker:trade pact until it halts trade strikes against Australian exports.
Speaker:Does anybody just look at, the rest of the world must look at us
Speaker:and go, we are just a shitty mess.
Speaker:We are just shitty bunch the way we just beat our chests and treat people badly
Speaker:and then whinge when they treat us badly.
Speaker:I think most of the rest of the world, if they pay attention to
Speaker:Australia at all, it's just a laugh about the climate change.
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:Why are we saying behind the rest of the world when it comes to climate
Speaker:change would be the other thing.
Speaker:Yeah, because your average citizen of another country isn't going to be
Speaker:too concerned with Australian trade relations or submarines for that matter.
Speaker:You know, we just.
Speaker:Behave shittily towards other people, and then when we get a smack on the nose
Speaker:back, we then go, Oh, what do you mean?
Speaker:What?
Speaker:It's embarrassing.
Speaker:There was something very funny on Batuta Advocate the other day that
Speaker:said that I only had to laugh.
Speaker:He said that, oh god, I've lost it.
Speaker:Anyways, keep going, it'll come back to me.
Speaker:Yeah, no worries.
Speaker:So now we've got AUKUS.
Speaker:This, just a loose arrangement that in future will work more closely together
Speaker:between Australia, the UK and the US.
Speaker:And people think that is going to help our security in the region
Speaker:and do completely the opposite.
Speaker:How's that different to Five Eyes?
Speaker:So, uh, it doesn't, it just adds to the Chinese who are thinking, the Chinese will
Speaker:be thinking, who's going to attack us?
Speaker:America.
Speaker:And who might be helping them?
Speaker:Australia.
Speaker:Like it just puts us in the mix in terms of if there is a war
Speaker:between China and Australia.
Speaker:America, then we're just, once again, underlining how close we are to America,
Speaker:and that we're probably China's enemy.
Speaker:The UK has never done anything against China.
Speaker:No, no, and you know, I mean, they've got every reason to want to meddle in this
Speaker:part of the world as well, don't they?
Speaker:You know, it's so obviously a natural fit for them to be Swanning around
Speaker:here, throwing the waiter out.
Speaker:Oh, God's sake.
Speaker:Anyway, this is all a bit of a repeat of what happened back in, just prior
Speaker:to, just after the First World War.
Speaker:I've got a link to an article by Alan Patience from the John Menendew blog
Speaker:talking about, One of our worst Prime Ministers, who was Billy Hughes,
Speaker:and essentially at the Paris Priest Conference he did the dirty work in
Speaker:putting the Japanese offside and, and really That was really offensive.
Speaker:Yeah, and basically Billy Hughes unleashed a tirade against the
Speaker:Japanese for proposing an anti racism clause be inserted into the League of
Speaker:Nations Charter, and Japan was deeply offended by Hughes's interventions
Speaker:and on leaving the conference declined membership of the League of Nations.
Speaker:So, he goes on But the Japanese saw clearly what Hughes was way too stupid
Speaker:to realise that he was being cynically manipulated by the Gang of Four who were
Speaker:effectively running the show in Paris.
Speaker:So he did the dirty work to exclude the Japanese from the Gang of Four's
Speaker:White Man's International Politics Club, because the Japanese thought,
Speaker:we're a burgeoning power in the region We want to have some say in what goes
Speaker:on here and basically told to fuck off.
Speaker:The Japanese were actually on our side during the First World War.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:You go to Albany in Western Australia, and you'll see how there's pictures of
Speaker:Japanese ships escorting Australian ships across the international To Turkey, yes.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:So, according to this article from Alan Patience, the similarities
Speaker:between then and now are alarming.
Speaker:Hughes was happy to provoke the Japanese clumsily and insultingly
Speaker:because he believed the British and perhaps the Americans had his back.
Speaker:He also loved being in the company of the great leaders at the conference.
Speaker:He was sure he was one of them, crowing to his supporters back
Speaker:home about his achievements.
Speaker:He was the runt in a house of fighting cocks.
Speaker:And this guy says Morrison displays the very same faults.
Speaker:He is already crowing about his achievement in forging a so called
Speaker:new alliance with his forever friends.
Speaker:He is stupidly blind to the fact that for the past few years he, and therefore
Speaker:Australia, has been manipulated by the Americans and now the British into
Speaker:being their Billy Hughes front man in thumbing their collective noses at China.
Speaker:Orcus is simply the white man's burden writ large in the Asia Pacific and
Speaker:Australia is its city little cheerleader.
Speaker:So I like that article from Outland Patients.
Speaker:Scott, do you want to disagree with any of it or you think that's about right?
Speaker:No, I, I agree with it.
Speaker:You know, I honestly believe that we've been, we've been co opted into
Speaker:something the Americans want to do.
Speaker:pick on the Chinese for.
Speaker:And they sort of said, well, Australia's got problems with China
Speaker:right now, so let's, you know, bolster their ego and give them
Speaker:these nuclear powered submarines.
Speaker:You know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what does the average Aussie think of all this?
Speaker:Will it mean anything down the track?
Speaker:I've got an article here from The Shot and put up on the screen,
Speaker:uh, picture, that up there.
Speaker:And this, this.
Speaker:Article is saying, I'll read a bit of it here.
Speaker:If I were in a TED talk right now, this would be about the time I pointed loudly
Speaker:to an oversized photo behind me of a group of American soldiers about to raise
Speaker:the US flag on a pile of war rubble.
Speaker:You know the one, you've seen that image at least once in your lifetime.
Speaker:Four or five or maybe even six soldiers grasping an almighty flagpole
Speaker:as they hoist the stars and stripes skyward like a giant middle finger.
Speaker:The up yours of American supremacy.
Speaker:We all know the image, it's iconic.
Speaker:Now, riddle me this.
Speaker:Exactly how many people are in the photo?
Speaker:What date was it taken?
Speaker:What was the specific geographic location?
Speaker:Who took the photo?
Speaker:What were the soldiers names?
Speaker:Details, me tails.
Speaker:Nobody remembers them because nobody cares.
Speaker:It's the image that's important.
Speaker:The image is seared in people's minds purely because of its
Speaker:symbolism, its simplicity.
Speaker:That's how symbolic imagery works.
Speaker:When something is so large and powerful, so symbolic and simple, it infiltrates
Speaker:our subconscious like that photo of the six American marines in Iwo Jima.
Speaker:We may not be able to tell anyone about the details, but we can all recall the
Speaker:powerful imagery, what it represents, and more importantly, how it makes us feel.
Speaker:That's a grand narrative.
Speaker:That's the power of the grand narrative.
Speaker:It doesn't rely on detail.
Speaker:So, I'm going to put another picture up.
Speaker:Which is basically a picture of Scott Morrison with Joe Biden and
Speaker:Boris Johnson flanking him on the television screens as this sort of
Speaker:orcus announcement was being made.
Speaker:And so What the article is saying that this is what Scott Morrison's
Speaker:team play with, imagery, the grand narrative, the idea you don't focus
Speaker:on the details too much, you just remember how it makes you feel.
Speaker:What team Morrison want you to think over and above anything else,
Speaker:above the policy and the presses and the talk of oh my god nuclear
Speaker:submarines and the Twitter chatter.
Speaker:What they want you to think when you think of Scott Morrison, when you talk
Speaker:to your friends, when you swap the goss, when you go to vote, they want
Speaker:you to think that Scott Morrison is a strong leader, a hero of our times.
Speaker:They want you to feel it and know it deep in your bones.
Speaker:So, that's the way they keep that imagery afloat, is by pumping it full of air and
Speaker:reinforcing it all the time, constantly, every day of every week of every month.
Speaker:Scott is strong, Scott is our hero, Scott will lead us all to safety.
Speaker:So, I think there's something in that, that Morrison looks good
Speaker:in a suit, I'll give him that.
Speaker:And he stands there, and he's got the look.
Speaker:You know, like Corbin in the UK didn't look good in a
Speaker:suit . You know what I mean?
Speaker:No, he looked bloody awful.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker:And so I would've thought Biden would look the pick of the three of them in a suit.
Speaker:Yeah, he looks sharp enough.
Speaker:But it's just, people won't care about all the details that we've just spoken
Speaker:about, about what a shitty deal this is.
Speaker:All they'll go is, gee Morrison strong, leaner, you got us to deal
Speaker:with the Americans for nuclear subs.
Speaker:Must know his shit.
Speaker:Hooray.
Speaker:Like, that's what it's really gonna come down to.
Speaker:I don't think he does know his shit.
Speaker:I don't, but people won't get that.
Speaker:They'll just hear No, no, no, he doesn't know that he's shit.
Speaker:No, he doesn't know that either.
Speaker:Maybe deep down he does.
Speaker:Maybe deep down he knows he's a con.
Speaker:It'd be interesting.
Speaker:Who knows?
Speaker:But, you know, they'll just He just needs to put out the picture of
Speaker:himself flanked by Boris Johnson and Joe Biden and says, look, I'm a world
Speaker:leader and I got us some nuclear subs.
Speaker:And all that stuff that we've just talked about is all for nothing.
Speaker:Your average Joe will know nothing about it, couldn't care less.
Speaker:I find that quite depressing and I don't know if there's
Speaker:anything I can do about it.
Speaker:No, I agree with you, it is quite depressing when you realise that,
Speaker:you know, it's probably going to come down to that picture of those
Speaker:three men up there on the morning of the announcement of August.
Speaker:You know, no one actually will give a toss that there is no treaty or
Speaker:anything else that's being discussed.
Speaker:It's just an agreement that we're going to work together.
Speaker:But it doesn't even have that, whatever clause it is in the ANZUS treaty
Speaker:that says that, you know, that they will come to the aid in conjunction
Speaker:with their democratic processes.
Speaker:You know, that doesn't say the Marines are coming.
Speaker:That says that we're going to argue about it in Congress to decide
Speaker:whether or not to send the Marines.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:In the chat room, Diastrates That's what, that's what, sorry?
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:In the chat room, Diastrates says About the Iwo Jima photo, he says
Speaker:the cameraman missed the raising, had to get them to do it again.
Speaker:So it was fake, staged, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker:That photo.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:Have you heard that?
Speaker:The point I was going to make, yeah, they did actually do
Speaker:that a couple of days later.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And of the six blokes that raised that flag, I think two of them were killed
Speaker:in action or something like that.
Speaker:So they had to grab two more just to help it out.
Speaker:Okay, right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It was really quite a, it was very much a botched job.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, it's really hard to get over that sort of imagery and there's just no capacity
Speaker:for an opposition leader to get the same image being flanked by world leaders.
Speaker:There's a huge advantage in incumbency.
Speaker:When you've got the murder press on your side, which the Liberals
Speaker:do, it's very hard for Labor to overcome that imagery, I think.
Speaker:So, what I've put up on the screen now, let me just see if I'm able
Speaker:to actually make that even bigger.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:This is, uh, a central poll came out today, and it said which party would you
Speaker:trust most to handle the following issues?
Speaker:And, on the issue of maintaining international relations, 37 percent trust
Speaker:the Liberals, 32 percent trust Labor.
Speaker:After the week that we've, weeks that we've just had, people still think,
Speaker:overall, the Liberals are the best party for maintaining international relations.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:And also managing the economy, I mean.
Speaker:And that was the other one I was going to get to as well, is
Speaker:management of the economy, 41 percent say Liberals, 31 percent Labor.
Speaker:After the blowout in the budget that we've had, after the billions thrown
Speaker:at the Harvey Norms of the world and not clawed back, And then, National
Speaker:Security, Liberals 41%, Labor 28%.
Speaker:The Liberals have been in charge of this entire botched submarine project.
Speaker:And they're the reason why we're not going to have a submarine when the
Speaker:Collins class eventually rusts away and we don't yet have a new submarine.
Speaker:And they'll be responsible for it.
Speaker:Like, there's just these ongoing, ongoing myths.
Speaker:A quarter of Australians think that the Liberals are going
Speaker:to address climate change.
Speaker:Well, it says, which party would you trust most to handle
Speaker:the issue of climate change?
Speaker:I guess that means if you're a denier, you would perhaps trust Liberals.
Speaker:Maybe.
Speaker:Yeah, so, fair workplaces, fair wages and workplace conditions.
Speaker:There's also 28 percent would trust Liberals more than Labor over that, so.
Speaker:For God's sake.
Speaker:You know, I'm up here in Dawson and, you know, I've got George
Speaker:Christensen as my local member and he's actually, Fucking clown.
Speaker:He's a member.
Speaker:Sorry?
Speaker:He's a country member.
Speaker:Yeah, I know that, but he's a clown.
Speaker:He's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker:Like, you know, I actually got to the point where I had to write to him when
Speaker:he made that dunder headed argument over climate change and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker:I wrote to him, I said, Mr.
Speaker:Christensen, Sometimes it's better to be keep your mouth shut and be thoughtful
Speaker:rather than open it and remove all, all, all pretenses of the otherwise.
Speaker:Yeah, all doubt.
Speaker:That's exactly what I said to him.
Speaker:You know, he's a clown.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:Just quickly, um, I'll shut up.
Speaker:No, no, you interrupt whenever you, not interrupt, chip in
Speaker:Scott, whenever you feel like it.
Speaker:So I mentioned Huawei earlier on.
Speaker:So really Huawei is this sort of state owned and controlled
Speaker:technology company out of China, is.
Speaker:They've really achieved some quite good technology with 5G, Joe, like Huawei
Speaker:world leaders in some respects, or not?
Speaker:Yeah, they produce, uh, good quality, cheap phones, well, not even cheap,
Speaker:I'd say they're top of the middle tier, obviously Samsung and Apple are
Speaker:the two leaders, but Huawei produce very good phones for the money.
Speaker:Yep, and they know something about installing 5G networks and things around.
Speaker:You know, around the world, other countries.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I believe that they were, had they not been excluded
Speaker:on national security grounds.
Speaker:Most countries, as in the UK, were looking, I think they finally got
Speaker:pulled out, but the UK and Australia were looking very hard at Huawei.
Speaker:Yeah, and you know, it's obvious they are definitely state controlled and
Speaker:we can't have that operating telephone system in America, in Australia.
Speaker:Like, that's clearly one we just, we have to say to them.
Speaker:You have to say no to that.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:But that's where you sat really gently and you say, guys, it's just not a good look.
Speaker:Can't do it for political reasons.
Speaker:Really love your product.
Speaker:Wish you all the best, but just not for us.
Speaker:Rather than, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker:We're not taking you.
Speaker:And by the way, we're going to tell the rest of the world that
Speaker:they probably shouldn't take you either because of the risk.
Speaker:And we're going to really thumb our noses at you, Mike,
Speaker:which is kind of what we did.
Speaker:So, but there was an incident where the daughter of the sort
Speaker:of Wang Zhu, Wang Zhao, the wealthy daughter of Huawei's boss.
Speaker:She was held in Canada on charges relating to America wanted
Speaker:her extradited out of Canada.
Speaker:So she had flown, I think, from China to Canada and was on her way to Mexico.
Speaker:So she was just transiting through Canada and American officials
Speaker:had a warrant for her arrest.
Speaker:Which, they got the Mounties in Canada to execute and put her under arrest.
Speaker:She ended up in home detention in a luxury villa.
Speaker:Yeah, house arrest, yeah.
Speaker:But, you know, she was transiting through Canada and she was
Speaker:hauled out of transport.
Speaker:She was in the shadows of Virginia.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And the reason was because there was another company Which was
Speaker:alleged to have sold Hewlett Packard computers to Iran to help them
Speaker:with their mobile phone operations.
Speaker:And America had an embargo or a ban on people selling stuff to Iran and
Speaker:evidence came out that there was a close association between Huawei and this
Speaker:other Hong Kong based company Skycam.
Speaker:So they basically said that she was guilty of a fraud because she'd
Speaker:used some of the money from Skycam, shuffled it across to Huawei.
Speaker:That money was from selling Hewlett Packard computers in Iran.
Speaker:And America had decided that it didn't want people selling stuff
Speaker:to Iran, because heaven forbid that Iran should have a half decent
Speaker:telephone, sort of, system in place.
Speaker:I think that in violation of their trade embargo in Iran, wasn't it?
Speaker:Yeah, in violation of the US trade embargo.
Speaker:Yeah, I know, the trade embargo in Iran and that sort of stuff, which
Speaker:Yeah, which I could understand, but they were the only country that was
Speaker:actually out there enforcing the law, enforcing the embargo against Iran
Speaker:You know, it was their own embargo.
Speaker:I know, it was their own embargo, wasn't it?
Speaker:Wasn't a United Nations embargo.
Speaker:No, I agree wholeheartedly, it was a US embargo.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, so so anyway the so What the Chinese did, was they
Speaker:just started arresting Canadians.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:And locking them up and that sort of stuff, yeah.
Speaker:And even ones that had been tried, they tried them again and said, oh,
Speaker:we'll give you the death sentence this time on those drug charges.
Speaker:So they basically did, uh, just did the Took hostages.
Speaker:Played hardball with Yes.
Speaker:Took hostages, played hardball, and, and America has had to blink and said,
Speaker:well, we're just going to drop it now.
Speaker:And she got released and got returned to China.
Speaker:And she said she arrived triumphantly at the tarmac and told Chinese state media,
Speaker:if it wasn't for a strong motherland, I wouldn't have my freedom today.
Speaker:Pity Julian Assange can't say the same thing.
Speaker:We're going to be taken prisoners.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:You know.
Speaker:That was interesting, that the Chinese just played a hard ball and said,
Speaker:stuff you, we'll start arresting people, throw them in jail, uh, death
Speaker:sentences, and leave our citizens alone.
Speaker:Anyway, you know, what you get It was very brutal what the Chinese did.
Speaker:You know, they did actually just arrest people that were
Speaker:Canadians and lock them up.
Speaker:It was terribly cruel what they did.
Speaker:It was quite effective.
Speaker:But it was terribly cruel what they did.
Speaker:Yes, but all you get from the headlines, even the ABC says China played
Speaker:dirty to get Huawei Princess back.
Speaker:Too dirty even to tell its own people, because they're sort of saying that
Speaker:the Chinese media wasn't explaining to its people the sort of prisoner
Speaker:swap that they'd had to go into.
Speaker:So, but you know, The ABC's guilty as well, they didn't tell our citizens about
Speaker:the dirty backstory of the Iranian embargo that got her arrested in the first place.
Speaker:You know, just because America wanted to be pricks to Iran.
Speaker:So, yeah, so that was that.
Speaker:Scott, the Prime Minister's office issued an edict this week that
Speaker:all Liberal backbenchers must get approval before speaking to the media.
Speaker:And at the same time Anthony Albanese's foot soldiers are already forced to send
Speaker:final drafts of opinion pieces to their leader for approval or forced change
Speaker:before it's being submitted to newspapers.
Speaker:Is that going to happen with Craig Kelly?
Speaker:He's no longer part of the party, is he?
Speaker:No, no, no, but I mean, is he going to have to submit it to Clive?
Speaker:Up to Clive, probably.
Speaker:One would have thought so.
Speaker:I think it's really over the top.
Speaker:It's, you know, these, the politicians have never actually
Speaker:accepted that you can have a You can have a difference of opinion
Speaker:between the front and the back bench.
Speaker:And I honestly believe that Parliament is a lot poorer for that.
Speaker:Like, back in the day, you know, I'm going to show my age here by
Speaker:remembering Hawke and Keating.
Speaker:You know, they did have differences of opinion between the front and back bench.
Speaker:And they did actually argue stuff out in public.
Speaker:Most of the real hell ding dong fights took place behind closed doors.
Speaker:But they didn't actually try and suppress debate, they encouraged
Speaker:debate, and they came up with a good set of policies out of that.
Speaker:So I honestly believe our parliament is poorer for it.
Speaker:Very controlled of the politicians.
Speaker:Oh God, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, so I remember when Shea was looking at pre selection, looking at contesting,
Speaker:and they said, Well, that podcast you've been on, we have to get rid of that.
Speaker:Tell them to take the episodes down.
Speaker:And now they're saying to elected politicians, well, you can't write
Speaker:any piece for a newspaper without running it past us, first of all.
Speaker:It's just embarrassing that they,
Speaker:they'd want to be a backbencher.
Speaker:If you can't speak your mind over these things.
Speaker:You know, I honestly believe they ought to have a, they ought to be able to be strong
Speaker:enough to stand up to their own backbench.
Speaker:And actually, they should actually be prepared to argue their point
Speaker:with the backbench and convince the backbench to go along with it.
Speaker:And then, you know, the backbencher could say, look, I
Speaker:didn't agree with it at first.
Speaker:However, after some back and forth, I've come round to, I've come round
Speaker:to understanding what they're saying.
Speaker:So, you know, that's, that's why I think that you'd be better off moving on.
Speaker:Now, uh, change of tack here.
Speaker:One of the earlier comments was from Jill, who said, let's lecture everybody
Speaker:about human rights and stop the Biloela family from being returned.
Speaker:Arrogant pricks and possibly low hanging fruit.
Speaker:They would win the election if they just sent them So, So, Jill, the
Speaker:situation's so bad with the Billa Wheeler family that even the Courier
Speaker:Mail is backing that family now.
Speaker:Like, that's, that's how things have gone.
Speaker:So, the Courier Mail editorial said, Yep, the world's gone mad.
Speaker:As if we needed further evidence that the world has indeed gone mad.
Speaker:Late Thursday we learnt, Federal Immigration Minister, Alex Hawke, granted
Speaker:12 month bridging visas to all members of an asylum seeker family from Biloela.
Speaker:Scott, except the youngest girl, she didn't get the 12 month bridging visa.
Speaker:And she's actually been born in Queensland.
Speaker:The effect of the decision is the entire family now needs to stay
Speaker:in community detention in Perth.
Speaker:It's not only bizarre, but it's sneaky and heartless.
Speaker:Hawke, this is Immigration Minister Alex Hawke, did not even have the courage to
Speaker:explain why the family's youngest girl had been denied the same visa as her family.
Speaker:Who'd even explain it?
Speaker:It's because she's a terrorist, obviously.
Speaker:No, she's not a terrorist, Joe.
Speaker:I mean, this is the whole point.
Speaker:Both those children were born here in Australia.
Speaker:Both of them were born here in Australia.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Their parents arrived here.
Speaker:On separate boats, they met each other after they'd served their first initial
Speaker:term in detention and they got married.
Speaker:And they procreated, they had two children born in Australia.
Speaker:So, I don't understand why the hell the two of them aren't
Speaker:just treated as citizens.
Speaker:And then, you know, why the government is so determined to make such a song
Speaker:and dance over this whole thing.
Speaker:It's four people.
Speaker:Two of them were born here in Australia.
Speaker:The other two met and fell in love in Australia.
Speaker:These guys are complete pricks.
Speaker:Absolutely, they are absolute bastards.
Speaker:You know, had they just handed it very quietly before you'd even heard the term
Speaker:Billa Wheeler, then they could have just given them bridging visas and all that
Speaker:sort of stuff, say, and actually said to them, now don't you talk to the media.
Speaker:And the four of them would have kept their mouths shut, I
Speaker:can guarantee that, you know.
Speaker:But no, it's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker:You've got a community that actually wants them there.
Speaker:You've got, you know, he worked in an abattoir, she worked as a
Speaker:volunteer and all that sort of shit.
Speaker:And you've, you've shown that they are integral, they have integrated
Speaker:into the community, and the community loves and wants them, and the
Speaker:federal government's saying no.
Speaker:And you've got a So, you know, you've got a procedure that allows a minister
Speaker:just to exercise a discretion.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:Say, okay, I'm not setting any precedence here, but I'll just let
Speaker:you in anyway through my discretion.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Had they have done that before they arrested them in the middle of the
Speaker:night, you know, cause that's when it really blew up was after that.
Speaker:Had they have actually, had Alex Hawke or whatever the name, whatever the name
Speaker:of the immigration minister was at the time, how do you have actually said to
Speaker:them, Very quietly, you can stay, but don't you dare talk to the media about
Speaker:this, then that would have been fine.
Speaker:No one would have ever heard of the town of Biloela.
Speaker:Look, further evidence for being governed by a bunch of pricks here, Scott, is
Speaker:this blind trust and, um, Oh yeah, that was fucking disgusting, wasn't it?
Speaker:You know, Christian Porter is an absolute prick.
Speaker:You know, now that's just completely indefensible what he did.
Speaker:He took that money from a blind trust and he said, well, I
Speaker:don't know who it came from.
Speaker:You know, now Malcolm Turnbull was dead right where he said, you know, it's
Speaker:akin to a bloke arriving at your office with a, with a balaclava over his head
Speaker:and you're handing over a bag of cash.
Speaker:You know, it's exactly right.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:It really makes you long for the warm, loving care of Malcolm Turnbull.
Speaker:Malcolm also said a blind trust is blind in that you don't know how it's investing.
Speaker:rather than you don't know where the money is coming from.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:So you're normally a blind trust is for, you know, say you become, uh, the
Speaker:president of the United States, your assets should go into a blind trust so
Speaker:that if you make decisions that benefit certain sectors of the economy, you're
Speaker:not influenced by your own money.
Speaker:You don't know whether your money is in, is in petroleum or
Speaker:whether it's in other things.
Speaker:So you're not influenced in making a decision that.
Speaker:benefit your own portfolio, because you don't know what your portfolio is.
Speaker:You essentially Put somebody else in charge of your portfolio.
Speaker:You don't know what shares they've bought.
Speaker:Yeah, it wasn't a blind trust.
Speaker:It was a, it was a bloody disgraceful thing that this bastard did.
Speaker:And you know, I was very pleased when he actually stepped
Speaker:down from the front bench.
Speaker:You know, I got a text message from Landon Hardbottom saying
Speaker:that, Oh, Christian Porter's gone.
Speaker:And I said to him, I said to him, Oh, Porter's gone.
Speaker:That's good.
Speaker:But I thought he'd actually quit parliament, but no, he hadn't.
Speaker:No, so this is the thing.
Speaker:He's still a member of parliament.
Speaker:Like, it's as if this.
Speaker:This isn't a rule that's only applicable to ministers of parliament, it should be
Speaker:applicable to any member of parliament.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker:You just can't take a bribe.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly, and that's exactly what it was, it was a bribe.
Speaker:Well, well, you may not know who the person is, but They'll let you know when
Speaker:it's time for the favour to be repaid.
Speaker:Yeah, like the whole risk of all this is that in six months time, you get
Speaker:a knock on your door and it's, oh, by the way, I'm Joe Bloggs and I gave you
Speaker:that money and now I want a favour.
Speaker:That's the whole problem with this.
Speaker:So, and the fact that these guys can't see this, they are just, it's,
Speaker:it's, there's just no accountability.
Speaker:No, none whatsoever.
Speaker:It's mind, it's mind boggling and somebody like Josh Frydenberg.
Speaker:defended Porter's actions, saying he had disclosed the donation in
Speaker:line with rules and blamed the opposition for the criticism, which he
Speaker:labelled as vicious personal smears.
Speaker:And he said the point about Christian Porter's legal defence
Speaker:is he did not use taxpayers money.
Speaker:And that is very important, Frydenberg said.
Speaker:Labor will continue with their vicious personal smears and campaigns.
Speaker:I don't think Australians have got time for it.
Speaker:That's the, that's the, that's the state of democracy we've reached.
Speaker:That a, a minister says, I don't think I should have to tell.
Speaker:If I don't know where it came from, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:And now, a member of parliament.
Speaker:Which he is now still, saying, I don't think it's important
Speaker:to know where it came from.
Speaker:It's no wonder they are dragging their heels on the Federal ICAC.
Speaker:Yes, that's what the word I was groping for.
Speaker:Thank you very much, Joe.
Speaker:You know, that is, it's absolutely no wonder they're dragging their heels on it.
Speaker:Because these bastards know that that's exactly what the Federal ICAC, with
Speaker:some teeth, would actually investigate.
Speaker:Well, weren't you going to bring it in this term?
Speaker:Wasn't that an election promise?
Speaker:I don't know if it was a promise, it was something that was said in the election
Speaker:that I think, well, it probably did sound like a promise, but then actually no,
Speaker:Morrison said that he was more concerned with COVID than he was with ICAC.
Speaker:You know, so apparently you can't walk and chew gum at the same time
Speaker:if you're a federal parliamentarian.
Speaker:But just freedom and ICAC, and COVID, you can do at the same time.
Speaker:I agree, and that's wrong, you know.
Speaker:In the chat room, Dyer straight says Porter will be back,
Speaker:sadly, and I think he's right.
Speaker:I reckon middle of next, if the coalition wins.
Speaker:If the Tories win again, he could well be back.
Speaker:Middle of next term.
Speaker:He could well come back.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I don't think that he's got much of a chance in Pearce.
Speaker:Pearce is a 5 percent margin that he's on currently.
Speaker:If the, if the rule, if the.
Speaker:If, uh, Western Australia votes the way they have in their state elections, then
Speaker:he's not going to be able, he's going to have a hell of a time holding his seat.
Speaker:So that would be good if he did actually lose his seat.
Speaker:I don't think it's going to happen, but it's always a possibility.
Speaker:Um, what's his opinion on climate change?
Speaker:Because what we've seen is former Liberals standing as
Speaker:independents on a climate change.
Speaker:So, so Liberal plus climate change seed.
Speaker:You mean If his electorate is one who are full of climate
Speaker:deniers, then he would deny it.
Speaker:No, no, no, that most inner cities are, wasn't that why,
Speaker:what's his name, lost his seat?
Speaker:Tony Abbott?
Speaker:Abbott, Abbott lost his seat to Zali Steggall because she was running on a, on
Speaker:a platform of action on climate change.
Speaker:So, you know, there's no doubt there that you do have a, and that
Speaker:was also Malcolm Turnbull's seat, which was lost to Donald Trump.
Speaker:What was her name?
Speaker:The former AMA president.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I can't remember.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:She, you know, she won that basically.
Speaker:She was arguing the whole thing about climate change.
Speaker:So I do think there is a groundswell of support out there to people in
Speaker:inner cities that are prepared to vote against the coalition, but they're
Speaker:not prepared to vote for Labor.
Speaker:If you've actually got someone that's actually probably a, an economic
Speaker:conservative, but also saying that you've got to do something about climate change.
Speaker:So you could actually see an enlarged, an enlarged crossbench
Speaker:after the next election.
Speaker:So you could end up with Albanese in minority government.
Speaker:Shay in the chat room says West Australians are particularly
Speaker:pissed with the Feds.
Speaker:That would make sense.
Speaker:Absolutely they are.
Speaker:So it's going to be hard, yeah, even the best of candidates will
Speaker:have a backlash against them.
Speaker:Well, and that's exactly right.
Speaker:So honestly, that's uh, Shay, isn't it?
Speaker:That's your normal Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:G'day Shea, how are you?
Speaker:I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by being on here tonight.
Speaker:It's one of those things, I honestly believe that Porter would have a
Speaker:hell of a time winning that seat again if he did actually go again.
Speaker:Now he said he's going to run, well he could well run, but
Speaker:he's probably going to lose.
Speaker:Because there is a, there is a, there is a, there is a hell of a stink
Speaker:against him right now because of what he's done with his blind trust.
Speaker:You know, there's a hell of a lot of stink around that and it's just one
Speaker:of those things that is Really quite appalling that he's actually tried to
Speaker:get away with it Jill in the chat room says I'll be so disappointed if the
Speaker:women of Pierce vote for him Presumably they are more than half his electorate.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, well there were plenty of American women who voted for Trump.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly Yeah, so yeah, Scott.
Speaker:Yes Thoughts on COVID?
Speaker:You're fully vaccinated?
Speaker:I am fully vaccinated, yes.
Speaker:Although I'm getting the concern that I had my vaccination, the second
Speaker:shot was on the 22nd of June or 28th of June or something like that.
Speaker:And they're saying that the immunisation starts to wane after six months.
Speaker:So that would mean that in six months time, which is sort of the 28th of
Speaker:December, which is when me and the better half are looking at going
Speaker:to Singapore, I could be actually losing my vaccination by then.
Speaker:So I hope that they're going to start rolling out the vaccine.
Speaker:Booster shots before I actually do want to go overseas, so anyway.
Speaker:What date, when are you thinking of going to Singapore?
Speaker:28th of December.
Speaker:Alright, very optimistic of you, Scott.
Speaker:Well, you know, it's one of those things, you can, well, Dan T.
Speaker:had said that the international borders will be open by Christmas, so.
Speaker:Yep, yep.
Speaker:Okay, um, just looking at, Central Report came out with,
Speaker:sort of, about vaccinations.
Speaker:And the one that interests me with this is always the one where I'll
Speaker:never get vaccinated and that's sitting steady at six percent.
Speaker:So that's a nice low ish figure, I think.
Speaker:You know, we hear a lot about anti vaxxers that have been in the news,
Speaker:you know, a lot, but six percent is a pretty low figure of the population
Speaker:that's saying I'll never get vaccinated.
Speaker:So that's heartening.
Speaker:I would've thought so.
Speaker:It is, you know, that would mean that you could potentially get as high
Speaker:as 94% of the country vaccinated.
Speaker:94% of adults.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But your kids, you, your kids will get vaccinated because if their parents don't
Speaker:care and the kids won't care either.
Speaker:So probably the kids will match the parents.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But the, at the moment it's, uh, down to 16.
Speaker:No, it's 12.
Speaker:It's, if you can get them, you can get them vaccinated as young as 12.
Speaker:Even over here?
Speaker:Yeah, my brother, my brother's had both his sons vaccinated.
Speaker:Uh, one's 13, one's 12.
Speaker:And the only reason they didn't get their daughter vaccinated
Speaker:is because she's not old enough.
Speaker:But as soon as she hits 12 years old, she's going to go in for her first shot.
Speaker:Because we actually trust science in our family.
Speaker:So there's an article from The Economist, which was looking at excess deaths,
Speaker:because it's very difficult to work out how many people have died from COVID.
Speaker:And, um, in this article from The Economist, it says The standard
Speaker:method of tracking changes in total mortality is excess deaths.
Speaker:This number is the gap between how many people died in a given region during
Speaker:a given time, regardless of the cause, and how many deaths would have been
Speaker:expected if a particular circumstance, such as a natural disaster or a
Speaker:disease outbreak, had not occurred.
Speaker:So, although the official number of deaths caused by COVID is now 4%.
Speaker:Uh, according to The Economist, our single best estimate is
Speaker:that the actual total is 15.
Speaker:4 million people, and they find that there's a 95 percent chance
Speaker:that the true value lies between 9.
Speaker:6 and 18 million, as opposed to 4.
Speaker:7.
Speaker:So the problem with excess is, we went into a lockdown for a long period, which
Speaker:meant the usual road deaths, the usual work deaths, all of those didn't happen.
Speaker:But on the flip side, people were avoiding going to a hospital for medical treatment,
Speaker:and so you heard of cardiologists who were saying that by the time people came in,
Speaker:it was too late to save them from a heart attack if they'd come in 24 hours earlier
Speaker:when they were having their first twinges.
Speaker:They'd have been able to save them.
Speaker:So, you But is that last one, is that last example, really
Speaker:an example of a COVID death?
Speaker:Because it's kind of related to a COVID death, isn't it?
Speaker:I don't think it's actually a COVID death.
Speaker:Is it caused by the pandemic though?
Speaker:It's sort of a pandemic, or is it caused by the lockdown, which is
Speaker:the reaction to the, the pandemic?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But the point, the point is, it's not a simple, take what your usual
Speaker:number of deaths are, and look at the total number of deaths that we've had.
Speaker:That excess death is, is, is a complicated number.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes, that's true.
Speaker:It is a complicated number, and it's not inclusive by any means.
Speaker:But anyway, that's a big difference.
Speaker:Current level, 4.
Speaker:7 million.
Speaker:But really, arguably, based on excess deaths, 15.
Speaker:5.
Speaker:It's interesting anyway.
Speaker:So that was from The Economist.
Speaker:Okay, they actually stopped counting COVID deaths if they died outside
Speaker:of a hospital or a nursing home.
Speaker:You know, so there were all these people that were dying at home from
Speaker:COVID, but they weren't actually saying that they were dead from COVID.
Speaker:Yeah, there's actually a good talk by Professor David Spiegelhalter, who is a
Speaker:professor of statistics, talking about the statistics during the pandemic,
Speaker:and actually looking at those numbers.
Speaker:He's also on the board of the Office of National Statistics.
Speaker:And he's done a number, he's regularly interviewed on one of his videos.
Speaker:Notes Things in his presentation was how much he gets taken out of context.
Speaker:But if you actually listen to him, it was very, very interesting talking
Speaker:about the deaths in nursing homes, or sorry, the deaths in private homes
Speaker:compared to nursing homes and hospital.
Speaker:Yep, yep.
Speaker:So, got another interesting one to put up on the screen, and
Speaker:this one is about California.
Speaker:So California recently had An attempt to recall the Governor.
Speaker:They've got a strange system there where, kind of like your State Premier, you can
Speaker:have a re vote on them if 15 percent or quite a small number of people ask for it.
Speaker:So anyway, they had a recent election in California and I'm showing on the
Speaker:screen two maps of California and the The green is the people who voted for
Speaker:a recall, which means they wanted to get rid of the Democratic Governor.
Speaker:And And The map on the right shows the hotspots for COVID cases.
Speaker:And there's a really strange correlation between wanting to vote the Governor
Speaker:out, because presumably you're a Republican, and being a hotspot for
Speaker:COVID cases because of whatever reason.
Speaker:So, you're either not taking precautions, you're not wearing
Speaker:your mask, you're not vaccinated.
Speaker:Um, it's just interesting that something like vaccinations, mask wearing, et
Speaker:cetera, is becoming a political issue, aligning up with your political belief.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:It's absolutely crazy.
Speaker:I was listening to Cognitive Dissonance this morning and there
Speaker:were a couple of guys that um, probably spoken about before, but
Speaker:they were saying that Biden was right.
Speaker:This is a, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated now.
Speaker:And he said, you know, in America where we're swimming in vaccines.
Speaker:You know, there should be no excuse whatsoever, just go out
Speaker:and get the fucking shot whether those are exact words, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:There's um, a podcast called You Are Not So Smart that talks
Speaker:about Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker:I've listened to it.
Speaker:Logical biases.
Speaker:Um, I was talking about masks and how masks have become political and
Speaker:there was, there was a three hour long episode which was all about, Talking to
Speaker:the anti vaxxers in your life, or not necessarily anti vaxxers, the people
Speaker:who aren't considering getting the COVID vaccine and saying that actually a large
Speaker:number of people who are anti mask and Republican are sneaking in the back door
Speaker:of pharmacies to get the COVID shot.
Speaker:Because whilst you can have a vaccine and still pretend that you
Speaker:haven't, it's very difficult to wear a mask and pretend that you're not.
Speaker:Is that right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:Hey, Andrew in the chat room said you're not seeing a map,
Speaker:but you should be able to see it.
Speaker:Surely that's working.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I must be able to see that.
Speaker:On and then off again.
Speaker:It's one of those things that I find absolutely ridiculous that they don't,
Speaker:that it's become a political issue about whether or not you get a vaccination.
Speaker:You know, and there was another thing that was also uncognitive since this
Speaker:morning was a guy that was saying that he was saying that there was a, he was,
Speaker:he'd written in, he'd written an article and he said, you know, the reason why
Speaker:that the Democrats were all laughing at these Trump Republicans that are
Speaker:dying is because they want us all dead.
Speaker:Go out and get the shot to make sure that you don't die.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things that is absolutely ridiculous that it sounded
Speaker:like it was an article from the Onion or something like that, but it wasn't.
Speaker:They actually looked into it.
Speaker:It was a genuine article from a bloke that claimed that, you know,
Speaker:the Democrats want us all to die.
Speaker:I found the article actually.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He was the.
Speaker:editor of a right wing newspaper, and it was Howard Stern, the shock jock, who was
Speaker:laughing about Republicans dying of COVID.
Speaker:Basically, he was, he was laughing at people who had been vehemently
Speaker:anti vax, dying of COVID.
Speaker:And, and saying, yes, this was a grand conspiracy to persuade Trump
Speaker:voters not to get the shot so that they'd die off because the margins
Speaker:are so narrow that then in the next election, the Republicans would lose.
Speaker:One of the things that I honestly believe could actually happen if you
Speaker:have enough of these right wing Christian nutters that are actually saying, you
Speaker:know, Jesus is the only vaccine I need, then they're going to end up dying.
Speaker:So you could end up killing off a hell of a lot of the problems for the Democrats.
Speaker:Something's really weird happening, Joe, where people couldn't see the map.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm looking for that.
Speaker:I don't know why they wouldn't be able to see that.
Speaker:It's sort of showing up on ours, isn't it?
Speaker:I would say.
Speaker:I just wonder if I try.
Speaker:If somebody, if the map eventually shows up, could you just let us know in the chat
Speaker:room, because what we're looking at, it seems like it's there, and it just doesn't
Speaker:make sense that you can't see that, so, don't know what's going on there, so,
Speaker:just keep us informed, or, I'm going to have to move on anyway from that map, but,
Speaker:but also, I've seen the map on Facebook.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Maybe because I changed the screen to that one, Joe.
Speaker:I don't know what happened there, but okay, I've got the
Speaker:map anyway, by the looks of it.
Speaker:So let me just put that on to make it a bit bigger.
Speaker:A bit of luck.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Just briefly, I think you sent this one, Joe, because in America, what
Speaker:they're finding is that it's the Republicans who are dying from COVID.
Speaker:And they're starting to worry.
Speaker:About the next election in that just the number of Republican
Speaker:voters are disappearing.
Speaker:It's just going to give an advantage to the Democrats.
Speaker:So, from Breitbart I honestly hope it does.
Speaker:Right, so Breitbart, there was an article where they are basically accusing the
Speaker:Democrats of kind of a reverse psychology.
Speaker:So, Here's the article from Breitbart, which is a very
Speaker:right wing online magazine.
Speaker:Do you want to know why I think Howard Stern is going full monster with
Speaker:his mockery of three fellow human beings who died of the coronavirus?
Speaker:Because leftists like Stern and CNN and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi
Speaker:and Anthony Fauci are deliberately looking to manipulate Trump supporters
Speaker:into not getting vaccinated.
Speaker:Nothing else makes sense to me.
Speaker:So, in a country where our elections are decided on razor thin margins,
Speaker:it does not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead.
Speaker:That does not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead.
Speaker:If I wanted to use reverse psychology to convince people not to get a life
Speaker:saving vaccination, I would do exactly what Stern and the left are doing.
Speaker:I would bully and taunt and mock and ridicule you for not getting vaccinated,
Speaker:knowing the human response would be, hey, fuck you, I'm never getting vaccinated.
Speaker:So when you look at the numbers, they're all wrong.
Speaker:The only numbers that matter, which is who's dying, it's overwhelmingly
Speaker:the unvaccinated who are dying, and they're just, and they have just
Speaker:manipulated millions of their political enemies into the unvaccinated camp,
Speaker:so their right wing thinks it's a reverse psychology conspiracy, so
Speaker:that's what's going on in Breitbart.
Speaker:Scott, Queensland Police Commissioner, Tarina Carroll, has told officers
Speaker:they will be suspended without pay if they haven't had their
Speaker:first COVID jab by October 5th.
Speaker:I don't have a problem with that at all.
Speaker:It's an absolutely sensible idea.
Speaker:You know, I wish you could make it mandatory.
Speaker:You can't make it mandatory.
Speaker:So, you know, you've got to be able to make it mandatory in the places you can.
Speaker:They can do it there, so I honestly believe they should do it.
Speaker:So, there was a case heard recently.
Speaker:It was a case of a health worker, and there was a, there's a New
Speaker:South Wales mandatory vaccination order on health workers.
Speaker:And so I A health facility was able to say to people, you're sacked if you're
Speaker:not vaccinated, because our health order requires us to have you vaccinated.
Speaker:So that was in New South Wales recently.
Speaker:So with this Queensland one, there are exemptions, Scott, for police officers.
Speaker:Some religious exemptions.
Speaker:Yes, for medical, religious or exceptional circumstances.
Speaker:Have you seen the Flying Spaghetti Monster letter about vaccines?
Speaker:Yeah, that was really very interesting, wasn't it?
Speaker:I heard about that on a podcast, actually.
Speaker:They said that they're going to issue an exemption to everyone that says
Speaker:that it's our religious belief that you can't force our people to work
Speaker:alongside someone who's unvaccinated.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So they're saying that, you know, you've got to actually, you've got to actually,
Speaker:you've got to actually get everyone vaccinated to fit in with the tenets
Speaker:of the Five Spaghetti Monster religion.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They, they had us in the first half.
Speaker:It was written that we're against harmful substances being, entering
Speaker:into our bodies and therefore we, it's unvaccinated people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:See, someone like the Satanic Temple in America will have a bit of a
Speaker:problem here, because in fighting the abortion laws, they say that
Speaker:everybody's body is inviolate and they have the right to make their own
Speaker:personal decisions about their body.
Speaker:So, that would indicate a pro anti vax stance on religious grounds.
Speaker:But also, but the freedom to not work alongside somebody who is unvaccinated
Speaker:and therefore enforcing segregation.
Speaker:It's one of those things, I don't think the Temple of Satan in the US would be
Speaker:actually arguing against vaccination.
Speaker:No, I don't think they would either, but if you take that basic tenet
Speaker:and apply it to this particular circumstance, there's a problem with it.
Speaker:Well, there's a problem with it.
Speaker:You could actually say that you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be
Speaker:supporting compulsory vaccination, which you can't get away with in the US.
Speaker:I mean, Biden's trying in the federal government over there and he's having
Speaker:a hell of a time getting it through.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, it's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker:The United States was the second country in the world to
Speaker:come up with a COVID vaccine.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. The first was Russia, the second was the United States.
Speaker:They're absolutely swimming in this stuff over there, but they
Speaker:can't get their people to take it.
Speaker:Germany will stop paying compensation to unvaccinated workers who are forced
Speaker:into quarantine by coronavirus measures.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it will affect people who test positive for the virus.
Speaker:If they haven't been vaccinated before, so that's a bit like what I was suggesting
Speaker:where maybe sick leave shouldn't be available for a COVID sickness if you
Speaker:are unvaccinated, because you've had the chance to reduce the severity of it.
Speaker:Yeah, so there's also, I did see an article by a healthcare worker.
Speaker:saying a lot of healthcare workers feel that they've put their lives
Speaker:on the line to look after people in a very virulent and deadly disease.
Speaker:And the health workers have, you know, despite being young and zero
Speaker:comorbidities, have still ended up dying because of the high viral loads
Speaker:that they were exposed to initially.
Speaker:And they are sick of it.
Speaker:And they're saying that, realistically, they want the ability to treat.
Speaker:or to triage unvaccinated patients at the bottom of the list.
Speaker:And saying that this goes against their training to treat everybody equally, but
Speaker:conversely, they've put their lives on the line, they've sacrificed a lot for
Speaker:this, and they're sick of people who refuse to believe the science until it's
Speaker:in their interest, until they're sick enough that they want to come to hospital.
Speaker:Yeah, well, I think when resources get scarce, and there's not a lot of fat
Speaker:in the system when it comes to ICU beds and ventilators, so if it comes down
Speaker:to choices of doctors will look at it and go, who's most likely to survive?
Speaker:Who can we help?
Speaker:Who is, if you're unvaccinated, you are putting yourself in the camp
Speaker:of perhaps not getting access to the limited number of ventilators.
Speaker:If there's a choice between you and a vaccinated person, that choice
Speaker:will mean that you're unvaccinated.
Speaker:the vaccinated person more likely to get the ventilator because
Speaker:they're more likely to survive it.
Speaker:So, hmm.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:That could all pan out.
Speaker:Terrible for the health professionals to have to do that.
Speaker:So, all right.
Speaker:Well, it is terrible, but it's one of those things.
Speaker:Scott, we're about to finish up here.
Speaker:We've made it to the hour and a half mark, even though Shea's not here.
Speaker:We have to get there just to keep her out of the shark tank that
Speaker:Landon Hardbottom threatens her with.
Speaker:Every week.
Speaker:So, any issues that you've heard over the past, uh, two years,
Speaker:Scott, that you, uh, wanted to, uh, chip in on or doubt that, uh, you
Speaker:wanted to disagree with or anything?
Speaker:Or you just wanted to agree with me on everything?
Speaker:No, I don't want to disagree with you on everything.
Speaker:It's one of those things that, it's one of those things I, thank you
Speaker:very much for having me on tonight.
Speaker:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker:And the essential Lord, Don, thank you very much for welcoming me back.
Speaker:I thoroughly enjoyed myself tonight.
Speaker:It was, it was really good.
Speaker:It was, uh, like being, uh.
Speaker:Back on the horse again.
Speaker:It was really good.
Speaker:So thank you very much.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, you're looking good, Scott.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, we're going to sign off next week.
Speaker:I will have an interview or a book or something.
Speaker:I'm not exactly sure what that might be, but something a bit different.
Speaker:And then with the panel in two weeks time, I think Shay will be back.
Speaker:By then.
Speaker:So, Scott, we might see, well, I'm away this weekend, but you're
Speaker:possibly going to be in Brisbane.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Locked out.
Speaker:If Brisbane isn't locked down, I'll be, I'll be in Brisbane this weekend.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Do you want to tell people where you're going to be or should
Speaker:they just contact you privately?
Speaker:It's up to you how public you want to be with that.
Speaker:Contact Scott if you know Scott and you want to see Scott.
Speaker:Send us a message and I'll get in contact with you.
Speaker:Yeah, in Brisbane, Sunday afternoon at 3pm.
Speaker:Yeah, venue too.
Speaker:It's top secret.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:The venue will be made available to you if you wish to contact me.
Speaker:All right, no worries, Scott.
Speaker:Enjoy that and to everybody else, thanks for tuning in.
Speaker:I'll talk to you next week.
Speaker:Bye for now.
Speaker:Okay, see ya.
Speaker:Bye now.
Speaker:Get an O from him.
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Speaker:So don't tell me about China.
Speaker:I know China.
