In this special "After Hours" episode, hosts Damien Greathead and Penny Breslin sit down with Steven Ladd — recovering engineer, serial entrepreneur, and small business advisor — to explore what it really means to serve small business owners beyond the debits and credits.

Steven shares his journey from engineer to entrepreneur to advisor, and how working with small businesses during COVID revealed a hard truth: most owners don't have a financial foundation — and most advisors don't know how to connect with them on a human level.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• Why speaking plain English (not EBITDA) changes everything
• The "Lemonade Stand" model for helping owners understand their own business
• What the Catalyst program looks like in practice — and what real value delivery looks like in the first 90 days
• The difference between a compliance mindset and a true advisory relationship
• Why the best advisors ask great questions rather than have all the answers

Whether you're an accountant looking to move into advisory, or a bookkeeper ready to offer more value, this conversation will give you the confidence and framework to take that next step.

0:00 – Introduction & Welcome

0:22 – About the "After Hours" format

0:54 – Recap of previous episode: Defining Advisory Services

1:51 – Penny introduces Steven Ladd

4:17 – Steven's background: Engineer → Entrepreneur → Advisor

5:09 – Working with small businesses through COVID

8:28 – How Steven describes what he does: "Love and Systems"

10:40 – Why jargon (like EBITDA) gets in the way

16:35 – What the Catalyst program looks like in practice

17:10 – The "Lemonade Stand" model for business clarity

24:15 – After the Catalyst: bookkeeping options & the fork in the road

29:13 – Empowering owners to become the Operator

31:15 – How big is Steven's company? (The answer may surprise you)

32:44 – A client success story: from skeptic to $250K loan

35:46 – Wrap-up & connect with Steven on LinkedIn

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the

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latest episode of our podcast.

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It's not just the numbers where Penny

Breslin and I, Damien, great head.

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We talk all things client

accounting and advisory services.

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We talk all things cloud accounting,

uh, cloud accounting, technology,

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uh, and share a lot of our insights

and experiences along the way.

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And this episode is a special one and

it's a new feature of our podcast,

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uh, and we call it after hours.

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A little bit like Bill Mahers

overtime, where following the episode,

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he brings the audience in and, and

they ask the panelist questions.

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We've done the same thing.

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We've, uh, we've invited, well, Penny's

invited, someone that she thinks is

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gonna add a huge amount of value, uh,

to the, the conversation, and he's

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going to share some of his insights.

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I'll, um, I'll let Penny

introduce Steven A.

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Little bit later on, but first

and foremost, just recapping on

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what our last episode looked at.

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So our last episode really focused on.

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Bringing definition and bringing a

greater understanding and greater clarity

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to what this role of advisory is, uh,

because there's a lot of definitions

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that sit there in terms of what can

be included under this umbrella.

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And ultimately, it's up to you

to very clearly define what is

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included in your advisory services.

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We stress that you don't have

to be everything to everyone.

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Uh, but really focus in on what

you do best and where you think you

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can, uh, deliver the most value.

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And, and you might actually move

around the quadrants that we

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discussed, uh, in last episode.

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So if you missed the last episode,

make sure you, uh, go back and have

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a listen to episode two, where we get

into the quadrant, uh, that breaks down.

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What is managerial finance?

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How can we better define.

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Client accounting and advisory services.

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Uh, but Penny, I'm, I don't

wanna steal any of your thunder,

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any of Steven's Thunder.

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So let me hand over to

you, first and foremost.

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How are you?

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Penny Breslin: I'm okay.

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How are you doing?

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Damien Greathead: Very well, thank you.

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You've got the guitar

in the background there.

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You've got the yoga mat.

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That's mine in your background there.

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Not my, alright,

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Penny Breslin: that's Rick.

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I do not play a 12 string guitar.

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Damien Greathead: What about the yoga mat?

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Is that yours?

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That's mine.

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The yoga mats.

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Yours.

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Okay, wonderful.

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Uh, penny, I'm gonna hand over to you

and, uh, if you can introduce Steven,

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how, how far you go back and the types

of things that you work on together.

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And then we'll, uh, we'll

crack on with the conversation.

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Penny Breslin: Okay, well, um,

yeah, uh, I'd like to introduce

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not only a client of mine, but a

longtime dear friend, Steven Lat.

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And Steve and I have known each

other for quite a few years.

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Uh, we've been through several,

um, businesses, uh, together as co

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consultants, as client versus, uh,

vendor, and also, uh, a journey

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to India that where I introduced

them to some programmers and

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developers over there years ago.

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So, um.

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Steven, uh, was the person that I was

referring to when we were discussing

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the four quadrants of what is part

of your back office capabilities?

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What is the job of A CFO,

either full-time or partial.

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And those quadrants in the original book

were laid out as the catalyst, uh, the

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strategist, the operator, and the steward.

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Then they're kind of sub

defined within that first book.

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And, um, so we got a few questions

when we previewed that episode

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ahead of time with some accountants

and those are the questions that,

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uh, we wanna address to Steven.

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Steven, you ready?

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Steven Ladd: Sure am.

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Penny Breslin: Okay, cool.

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Do you wanna say hi to everybody, Steven?

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Steven Ladd: Hello, everybody from

Southern New Hampshire just outside

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of Boston where there's snow on the

ground and it's almost freezing.

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It's almost worked its way

up to that cold yet so far.

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Penny Breslin: Yeah.

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Well, we're both in nice

climates, so I'm in San Diego and.

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Damien's in Sydney, Australia.

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I in Sydney, Australia.

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Damien Greathead: Yeah.

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And it's summer down here.

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So Steven, um, thank you so

much for, for joining us today.

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Tell us a little bit of your background

and, um, how you, how you got to where you

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are today and, and, um, excited to learn

a little bit more about your journey.

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Steven Ladd: So, uh, first of all, I'm not

an accountant, I'm a recovering engineer.

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I went to school to design

electronic products.

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Did that for a few years.

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Found myself next in

manufacturing and then in sales.

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And um, and then the company I

worked for, uh, had a layoff and

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I talked to my customers and they

said, who are we gonna buy from?

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So I thought I'll start a

business and su and supply you.

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Eventually, uh, built that business

up, sold it to Honeywell, and I've

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gone back and forth between, uh,

advising companies like in between

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jobs and starting businesses.

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One of those businesses was

a accounting practice with a

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CPA about 15, 20 years ago.

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And most recently, I think when

COVID hit, I was pivoting from an

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idea I was working on with my wife,

which was around, uh, relationships

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between people to saying, Hey.

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This COVID thing's gonna shut

down the country and I'm afraid

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everyone's gonna go broke.

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I wanna work with small businesses

to see what we can do to stay alive.

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So from that, I started working

with, most recently, in that four

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year period, about 40 customers to,

to do that with the idea in my mind

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that I would be a virtual chairman

of the board, kinda like a virtual

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CFO, but more on the strategy side.

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And it turned out to be very frustrating

because virtually, not virtually every

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single client we had had some major

money problem and they didn't know it.

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One company, uh, one port

firm had two parts to it.

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The woman gave away the parts

she thought was losing money, but

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that was actually her money maker.

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Others were struggling to make payroll

and I was trying to find out do we have

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enough money to make payroll in two

days, and that would be a multi-hour job.

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So my idea originally of being a

part-time chairman of the board was,

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was kind of ridiculous in the, in the

sense that what we really needed was

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someone to know if there's any money in

the bank today, can we pay our bills?

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Can we, do we have cash coming in next

week just from counting our receivables?

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And it was, it was a, a real challenge.

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And after COVID and, and had had gone

on for a while and people started

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getting bailout money and whatnot,

that, that the urgency changed.

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But the problem remained the same

as not knowing what was profitable,

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not being able to get a loan because

their books were a mess, not knowing

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if they had money in the bank.

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Or who they owed money to

or who owed them money.

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And so I look back and say I

had a highfalutin notion of what

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my career was gonna be, being

the strategic coach to CEOs.

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And instead I found myself working back

to where we were 20 years ago, trying

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to set up bookkeeping systems with

the sort of tools that are available

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in technologies and processes that

you all talk about all the time.

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Penny Breslin: Yeah.

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Fascinating.

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Damien Greathead: And yes.

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Sorry, penny, you go.

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I

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Penny Breslin: go, go right ahead.

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'cause I've had this discussion,

obviously with Steven often.

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Damien Greathead: It is

just a fascinating one.

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So you're an accountant, what, what

do you call yourself then, like in

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terms of when you're out sort of

prospecting or if you're out networking

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at, at the barbecue and, and, and in.

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So everything that you said I sort

of understand, but when you're

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sitting in front of, of, of.

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Maybe business owners that are technicians

that love what they do, but don't

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necessarily, um, uh, understand the,

the, the, the numbers side of things.

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How do you, what do you say that you do?

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And then I guess my next question is,

well, my accountant does that, don't they?

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So how do you, yeah, let me just help me

understand how you communicate, what you

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do and the points of difference between

you and, and what they think an accountant

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or their bookkeeper should be doing.

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Steven Ladd: You know, it's funny to

be asked that because, uh, I haven't

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done any sales or marketing in the

first four years of this business.

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Um, I was running a mastermind group

of business owners just for fun.

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Mm-hmm.

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And a couple said, you're

contributing too much.

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I need to pay you.

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I need a mentor.

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And so I decided, okay, you need a mentor.

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I'm a mentor.

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And that would became

the, the description.

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Um, an organization hired me at one

point and said, you're an advisor.

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Said, okay, I'm an advisor.

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But what I found is that what's

different, uh, and about our company,

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which has, um, a funny looking logo

for something that's in the financial

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business, it looks sort of like a heart.

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And I believe that what really

drives me is a combination of

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combining love and systems.

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And when I talk to people and I'll

let them know that I understand what

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it's like to be an entrepreneur.

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'cause I've done it so many

times that it's not easy.

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And that, in fact, I'd say you're

like most people, you're SOL.

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You're stressed, you're

overwhelmed, and you're lonely.

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Hmm.

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That's, that's the outcome

for everybody in your shoes.

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I've walked in this walk.

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I'm a little bit ahead of you

perhaps, but you're doing the same

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thing, but I'm on the same path.

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I've been on this path with you and

I can help you get to the next level.

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And the people that accountants have

often sold themselves as experts in their

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field, that I'm, you know, I'm technically

better than anybody else type of thing.

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And I'm not, I'm not competing with them.

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In fact, I don't do taxes,

I don't do tax planning.

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I hope to partner with more

accountants that are very, very

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good at that for our clients.

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And I'm looking for some of our

clients now to find a new CPA.

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Um, but it's not, it's

not a competitive thing.

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It's a matter of connecting with people

as human beings because this role of owner

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of small business, and I'm thinking people

that are roughly one to $5 million a year

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in sales, US dollars, it is a hard job.

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You know, they're, most of the jobs

in the country are, I don't think

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our economy would survive without

them, but it's, it's rough work and

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it's just, it's main street work.

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It's not ai, it's not something

fancy, it's not high-end anything.

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It's putting fences up around schools.

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It's, it's curing lab samples from where,

from where a patient had a lab test,

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to a place where they can be analyzed.

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It's basic stuff that runs the

country and making that work.

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They needed to understand.

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I, I helped them

understand that it's okay.

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I know you've done well and it's

hard, and then there's some things

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we can do to make it a lot easier.

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Penny Breslin: One of

the things Fantastic.

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Go ahead, Dian.

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Damien Greathead: No, no, no.

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Sorry.

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Penny.

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Your turn.

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I was gonna throw you anyway.

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Penny Breslin: Well, okay.

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Well, well, of the things that Steven

and I both related, and he's talked

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to me about this, is how do you speak

to these people that's different than

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how their accountant speaks to them.

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Steven Ladd: Oh my Lord.

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Um, first of all, I've learned

that the word EBITDA is a, is

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a bad word in my household.

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My wife won, you know, um, I learned

not to use gross margin anymore.

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I now call it gross profit.

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Um, I'm basically say that all of the

fancy language that we sling around,

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like investment, oh, it's five x EBIT

except blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

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is right over people's heads and they

don't like being talked at like that.

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So the first thing is to understand

that, you know, they are very good at

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what they do, whatever that might be.

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Uh, having 20 trucks deliver groceries

every day or whatever it is, their job

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is whatever their business does, right?

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Um, we're hopefully

very good at what we do.

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But we can't expect them to be experts

in accounting or bookkeeping at all,

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or finance or anything like that.

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Uh, and most of the people

that I work with, they tell me,

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it's like they talk down to me.

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They're too busy for me

during tax season, of course.

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And when I do get their time and

they, they de to call me back in two

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weeks, they seem exasperated with me.

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I'm not good enough to be their customer.

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And our approach is different.

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It's like, Hey, you're not human being.

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You're good at what you do.

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I'm pretty good at what I do.

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I'm gonna try to, to help

you with what I can do.

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So you can be a genius at what you do.

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And that's not common language

apparently in our industry.

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Damien Greathead: And I'd sort of

say, if you've built your business to

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a million bucks in revenue in terms

of the clients that you're working

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with, they're doing something right.

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Like something's going well for them.

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Amen.

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Yeah,

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Penny Breslin: exactly.

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Damien Greathead: And, and Penny, in,

in the last episode, penny, you were

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talking about this Catalyst program

that you work with new clients on.

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So we had a bunch of questions

that came in, uh, into our

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LinkedIn, uh, that sits around.

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What do you actually do with your

customers and, and what's that?

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What does that first three months or

six months look like in working with

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someone that comes on board with you?

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Steven Ladd: So, Steven, we just started

a new client on a Catalyst program

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Monday, so it's very fresh into mind.

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Right.

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This particular one just

started three days ago.

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Um, we have, they, they sent us the

access to the QuickBooks before we met.

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Um, they came through a referral.

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Someone else that we had

done the same thing for us.

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They knew kinda what to expect.

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I looked at their chart of accounts.

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There were about 250 of them, and

about 20 of those were current and

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the rest hadn't been used in years.

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Um, the balance sheet didn't

balance, et cetera, et cetera.

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So I went over the books and, and,

and Ana made a, basically made a

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spreadsheet out of their accounts,

and the last time an account was

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used and asked them, what's this?

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What's this, what's this?

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Tell me about your business.

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And so we start, we started in this

case because they're, they've had

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a business for a long time going

over their sources of income, where

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their expenses are and where their

assets are, and their liabilities.

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Um, I'm essentially going down

the chart of accounts in my mind.

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Sometimes I break it up by balance sheet

and profit and loss statement, but I ask

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them questions about their business and

what do you think and what does this mean?

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Um, but I should say, actually

before that I happen to know

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something about the business.

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If I didn't, I'd be asking a

lot of questions like, when

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did you start your business?

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Why did you do that?

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What, what worked well for you?

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What, what was disappointing?

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What are you proud of?

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And we connect on what the

business is really about.

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First, what do they want to get out of it?

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How long do they wanna stay doing this?

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Do they have a success?

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Are they passing it down to a family

member or a younger person on their staff?

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Do they wanna sell it for zillion

dollars and retire in the island?

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Like, what?

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What are they all about?

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Or that's the first part.

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And then the part I just, I started

with, which is, let's take a look

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at some aspects of your business.

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Tell me.

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You know, who are your customers, roughly?

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How big are you?

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How many people do you have?

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Things like that.

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We get to know all those

things before we dive as books

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Damien Greathead: and, and whereas a, a

typical bookkeeper or accountant would

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drive dive straight into the books or, or

actually just, I've stayed into the work.

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They might not even look at the

previous set of books and just get

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going on things, wouldn't they?

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Steven Ladd: Oh yeah, I think so.

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Penny Breslin: Yeah.

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Yeah, you, the first thing they usually

said is, oh, this customer's a mess.

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You know,

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Damien Greathead: um, yeah.

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Or I can't believe what the

old bookkeeper did, or old tax.

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Oh yeah.

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That's always a good one.

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Crap.

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Penny Breslin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's, it's a di it's, it

starts off as a diss, you know?

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Yeah.

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You know, uh, it starts off with,

uh, these guys must be stupid

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to have allowed this to happen.

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Damien Greathead: So, and, and so

Steven, you've, you've got one.

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So this is a new customer that's

come on board, and so you've gone

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through what, what sounds like a very

process driven, I won't say standard,

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but at least a standardized, uh,

discovery process to really understand

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what, what is the motivation of the

business owner versus the mechanics

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of the business, and, and then move

on to the mechanics of the business.

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So I, that, that makes sense to me.

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And, and we, we, we, we've done that.

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Um, we understand what, what,

what makes the business owner

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tick, et cetera, et cetera.

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When, what about sort of

six months into the program?

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Or, or, or what, what,

what are those first.

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Projects or deliverables that, that you

are focused on in that first six months?

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Because obviously in a consultant, like

in a, in a compliance gig, you've gotta

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get compliance done so that the, the

tax man says, or the tax, the tax person

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says, um, you've gotta file a tax return

with these particular bodies every time.

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So.

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The, the deliverable is the

tax return and it's compliance

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based, so we have to do it.

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Um, whereas in, in this consulting,

in this business advisory role, um,

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it's very relationship, but even my,

myself as a consultant, um, in, in

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previous years, and Penny is the same.

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You've, you've gotta deliver some

value in the first sort of three,

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six months so that the, the business

owner feels confident that they're

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getting something for their money.

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Where are you focusing on

for those, for those folks?

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In that we've done the discovery.

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Yeah.

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What's that first way that

you demonstrate real value?

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The deliverables in that first,

first part of the engagement,

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Steven Ladd: um, understanding they

begin to understand their own business

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as a result of going through this.

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When I first started doing

this a couple years ago.

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Um, I wouldn't say made the mistake, but

it was, it was very, I was very proud of

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coming up with a program to take people

through a very comprehensive set of all

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the things we need to do to get them not

only good books, but an understanding

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of the drivers of their business and

forecast and budgets and things like that.

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What I found the actual value

of the program was the customer

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understanding what they're doing,

and we make things real simple.

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We have this thing called lemonade stand.

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They said, you know, if you have a

lemonade stand, you're selling lemonades.

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I dunno, today for say, $5 lemonade,

it costs you round numbers, a

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dollar for the lemons and the ice

and the sugar and all that stuff.

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So you have to sell a lot of li You know

that you make $4 a lemonade and if you

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have a $400 overhead every day, you've

gotta sell a hundred to break even.

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And it turns out you can pretty

much model almost every business

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out there as a lemonade stand.

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Are you gonna sell lemonade?

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Some stand?

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Are you gonna have more stands?

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You know, what is your lemonade stand?

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And.

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And, and asking questions about

the basics and, and explaining why

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we want to know, and then doing

this model to eliminate stand.

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They tend to understand their own

business somewhat organically.

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Not like in the classroom, but it's

like, oh, that's why we care about it.

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Like, mm.

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One of the clients had double

counted most of their revenue.

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Um, they had issued invoices,

but when the money came in,

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they called it a sales receipt.

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So,

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Damien Greathead: sorry, I should've

laughed, but I, but I've done that

386

myself and, and I've seen it so many

times and, and, and particularly,

387

I, I think, you know, when zero

and QBO first came out and the, the

388

bank feeds were coming in Oh, yeah.

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Automatically that was just,

that was the number one problem.

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And every everyone's revenue double.

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Steven Ladd: Well, the, the, the key

was, the first time we saw this, the

392

key was the company had like $200

in the bank, actually maybe $2,000

393

in the bank, but they had shown that

they did a million dollars in business

394

and had $700,000 in profit, which

is pretty extraordinary for anybody.

395

And that was part of the problem, like

if you took it down to a bunch lower

396

number and then got rid of a bunch of

stuff, it was more like a half million

397

dollar business and $10 a profit.

398

So yeah, that there's that, and

partly that is like understanding,

399

like why would, I think

maybe there's something off.

400

When you have $800,000 of, uh, uh,

checks in your drawers, I called it,

401

but you know it as unde deposited

funds, but do you really have

402

$800,000 of checks and absolutely not.

403

I make my husband go to the bank

immediately when everyone comes

404

in, that type of thing, right?

405

So it's about that.

406

It's like looking at anomalies and

explaining why, and explaining why we

407

care about not paying too much in taxes

and how that, how these things affect

408

either their ability to get a loan or

to keep their taxes down helps a lot.

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Damien Greathead: And actually one thing

before, sort of the under positive funds

410

example, you were sort, you said that

inherently these business owners know

411

their business, but they need someone to

help uncover what some of those anomalies.

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What, what are some of the

causes of the anomalies?

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And, and, and I think Penny talking

to a lot of the accountants and

414

bookkeepers that want to get into this

advisory space, there's a reluctance

415

to do it because they think they need,

they need to have all the answers.

416

Um, whereas actually, um, Steven,

what you are saying and, and it

417

makes absolute sense, is they're

an expert in their business.

418

Oh yes.

419

Through their eyes.

420

They just need another set of eyes

or another, or, or, or I, and I

421

think, penny, you said it in in the

previous episode, ask the question a

422

different way to help uncover that.

423

So I think, I think for for

listeners, it's, um, you, you,

424

the accountant, the advisor, you

don't have to have the answers.

425

But it, it's about the questioning

process that, that, that really gets

426

un under the, the hood of what's

actually happening in, in businesses.

427

And, and I loved what you said in, in

terms of, oh, that's why that's important.

428

I, I never realized why, why, even,

why you were asking that question.

429

How many, how many lemonades do I

need to sell just to cover my rent?

430

Penny Breslin: Mm-hmm.

431

Also, I think too, that if you come in

thinking, do you have all the answers?

432

You're gonna miss, you are going to

miss the real problems because you are

433

coming at it from a debits and credits.

434

'cause that's your focus.

435

You're an accountant,

that's what you're good at.

436

Um, but you have to understand

where the business is at.

437

And it's not just in their debits

and credits, it's where are they?

438

You know, emotionally, where are

they physically, where are they in,

439

in, in relation to all the other

businesses in their particular vertical?

440

Uh, where are they in relation to

the, the community that they live in?

441

Um, so you do, you've got, you've, if

you go in there thinking, I have to

442

have all the answers before I go, you

actually kind of like cut yourself off.

443

And you also, I think that's when.

444

Earlier when you said, uh, Steven, the

client feels like they're being talked

445

down to, or the prospect, it feels like

they're being talked down to, you know,

446

what do you mean you don't understand

this, you know, that kind of thing.

447

Steven Ladd: Well, in this period of

time I've worked with people ranging

448

from software manufact, uh, software

developers for high-end restaurants, to

449

mental health clinics, to immigration law

firms, to people who make cardboard boxes.

450

I mean, it's a wide range

and on and on, right?

451

There's no way that any human

being can know a lot about all

452

of those different things, right?

453

So, you know, you, you have to, I think

is, is if anybody in the profession

454

likely has, unless they've been really

clever and selected a niche, like some

455

you've talked about on your other podcast,

um, they're likely have a wide range of

456

clients that are doing all sorts of stuff.

457

It's really hard to be an expert in that.

458

It's hard even know what's

average or typical of that

459

business 'cause it's so new.

460

So I ask him to make it

really simple for me.

461

Just so talk down to me, explain to

me in simple terms what it is that

462

makes your business what it is and.

463

Usually, you know, with experience,

after a while you start saying, ah,

464

you know, the problem with save mental

health clinics is it takes forever to

465

get paid by the insurance company and it,

and it goes through a lot of cycles and

466

they claim, they deny a lot of claims.

467

So it's hard to provide a low

cost healthcare service in the

468

United States because of the, the

structure that they're working in.

469

Everyone has their difficulty.

470

But they also have their genius that

they've figured out a way to get 40 people

471

to provide healthcare, mental healthcare,

to folks in underserved communities and be

472

able to keep the lights on while doing it.

473

It's that type of thing.

474

We need to honor the genius of our clients

and see if we can find a way to help

475

them maybe get a simpler understanding

of their own business, a more fundamental

476

one, so it's not just the numbers.

477

It's not just the numbers.

478

Damien Greathead: Well,

479

Penny Breslin: now that was

a, that was a shameless plug.

480

I'm sorry.

481

Sure.

482

Damien Greathead: It was a

shameless plug and we should

483

really wrap the episode there.

484

But actually I, I have one, I think

probably one last question because, uh,

485

one last question from, that's come in

from, uh, from listeners to the podcast.

486

Um, and it's not just the numbers.

487

But basically the question is like,

I, I, I, I understand that advisory.

488

You need the, you need the numbers, but

I, I don't want to do the bookkeeping.

489

I don't want to do that.

490

So if it's not just the numbers, the

numbers are incredibly important.

491

Steven, how do you get the numbers done?

492

How do you have confidence?

493

'cause I'm, I'm assuming you are

not there doing your debits and

494

credits and, and and whatnot.

495

How do you, how are you helping these

clients get their books done so that

496

you have confidence in those numbers?

497

Steven Ladd: So after they complete

the Catalyst program, there's

498

sort of a fork in the road.

499

They can do the numbers themselves.

500

Uh, or ha or they can,

or we'll do it for them.

501

And when I say we, I mean in conjunction

our part, our company's partner with

502

Penny's business to do a lot of that work.

503

So it's worked out really well.

504

About half of them decide to stay with

us, and that goes quite smoothly because

505

we have everything up and running.

506

We have processes and procedures and

technology that, um, that we live by.

507

On the other side, we found folks, the

first one we put through this program.

508

It was the husband and wife team,

and the wife decided to quit her

509

part-time job and to do the books,

and so she took a YouTube class on

510

QuickBooks and promptly undid most of

our work over the next three months.

511

And so we had to help her again,

get things back to, to snuff.

512

It's, there are a lot of folks out there

that are taught in, in the greater Boston

513

area and some communities that are talking

about doing bookkeeping for $400 a month.

514

And one of our clients said that

there's no way I'm gonna pay your rate.

515

And, and we charge a fraction

of what it would cost to have

516

a, a bookkeeper in house.

517

Uh, I'm gonna get my own

person really cheap like that.

518

And, you know, um, I don't

know how they do that.

519

And I don't know how We've seen so many

people come from that, from that place

520

of, oh, I found a cheaper bookkeeper.

521

It's sort of like finding the

cheapest brain surgeon in my opinion.

522

So there are a lot of good people out

there, but there's others that are cheap.

523

And it depends on whether the CEO or

the owner of the company is, is looking

524

this as a cost or as an investment.

525

And if they look at it as, as

a investment, I think they've

526

make the right decision.

527

But that's our perspective.

528

We, we tell them during our program

that as the owner of business,

529

you have way too much to do.

530

You don't wanna be in

the weeds on this stuff.

531

And not only is it bookkeeping,

but many other things.

532

Oh, hello there.

533

Who's joining us?

534

Oh, no.

535

Uh, this, this is

536

Damien Greathead: Wyatt.

537

Hi Wyatt.

538

This is wt.

539

He's, he's Hi.

540

Oh my God.

541

Hi.

542

He's 15 months old and

nice to meet you Wyatt.

543

That's Wyatt.

544

And this, this is 3-year-old Gu.

545

Penny Breslin: Seen you for a long time.

546

Damien Greathead: Righto.

547

Off you go.

548

I'm sorry about that, Steven.

549

Steven Ladd: No, it was wonderful.

550

Sorry, I, I'm interrupted every day by

my 3-year-old granddaughter who comes

551

up to have me take, make a printout of

a princess picture on my, on my, uh,

552

laser printer so we can draw on it.

553

Uh, we actually think that the purpose

of work is to support our families

554

and, and are very pro family and

believe that most of the customers

555

we have are family owned businesses.

556

So it just kind of makes

sense that family comes first.

557

We're doing this for them, not

because we're trying to just build

558

a company for no particular reason.

559

Damien Greathead: And so, okay, so you

were saying about 50% of the people that

560

go through the Catalyst program so far,

50% of them take you up on you, your,

561

your organization in conjunction with

Penny taking care of the bookkeeping.

562

Other 50% say, look, we'll

find, we'll do it ourselves.

563

We'll find something cheaper.

564

Do you still continue to work with them,

or what happens to that group of people?

565

Or do they graduate out of your

program and off they go And, and.

566

What happens to that 50%?

567

Steven Ladd: So they graduate off, they

go, and the first couple I saw weren't

568

so successful, and so it caused me to

do a lot of thinking that's not just,

569

honestly, I took your book and a whole

bunch of other notes and, and developed

570

the first version of the program.

571

So it was to get them in and

then had them operating smoothly.

572

And I used, basically used, you know,

uh, your work to look on the smooth

573

operating side and also a whole bunch of

checklists that Penny has, has provided.

574

But what is needed is, I need found, I

was missing, is I needed to teach the

575

owner why they cared about certain things.

576

Like if you get a bank

reconciliation and your bookkeeper

577

says, here it is, it's right.

578

Look the top, the numbers match.

579

Did you scroll down a little bit and

see about your uncleared deposits and

580

wonder why you have $400,000 deposits

from a year ago that haven't cleared yet?

581

But they're so on your, it's

showing them the gotchas that

582

a few, I mean, it's not clear.

583

We could do hundreds, but some of the

key things to look for when managing

584

someone who's doing the books for

you, whether they choose to use us or

585

someone else, I think that's the ethical

position because it's, I don't think

586

it's ethical to set somebody up and then,

and, you know, basically do it for them,

587

but, but not teach them how to do it

themselves or have it done for themselves.

588

So it's becoming more, more and

more instructional and understanding

589

and less about just doing the work.

590

Damien Greathead: Um, and then, so then

if I could sort of wrap this conversation

591

up and, and go back to the, the quadrants

that are in the book that Penny sort of

592

built, that sit around catalyst, which

is what we've been talking about today.

593

It feels like with then they, then you've

almost empowered the business owner.

594

Particularly the ones that, specifically

the ones that work with you on an ongoing

595

basis and, and, and you get that you, uh,

make their, get their bookkeeping done.

596

Your, your firm, so, or your business.

597

So they, they go in then to the

operator role in many respects.

598

You've trained them to be the operator.

599

Penny Breslin: Mm-hmm.

600

Damien Greathead: Which it sounds

like you are then going to sort of.

601

Move over to this strategist side

to sort of say, you know what?

602

Now that we've, now that we've got the

business organized, um, and systemized

603

and process driven in, in, for the back

office, the business owner has much more

604

control and understanding and, and, uh,

of, of what makes their business tick.

605

Now let's actually think about what are

the growth drivers and, and let's actually

606

sit around and do some strategy stuff

to, to think about growth succession

607

planning, tax, uh, maybe not tax planning,

but growth and succession planning.

608

So it feels like you've.

609

You've empowered the business

owner to be the operator.

610

You've got the catalyst done to get them

in, in shape, and now you're, you're sort

611

of navigating over to this strategist role

to sort of help what's the next stage of

612

the business would, would that be fair?

613

Would that be a fair summation?

614

Absolutely.

615

Steven Ladd: That's what I wanted to do

when I started this, but I just couldn't

616

get there doing all that other work.

617

Right.

618

This is the fun part, you know?

619

Yeah.

620

Where do you wanna be when you grow up?

621

Um, Mr.

622

And Mrs.

623

Business owner, right?

624

What is it you're trying

to accomplish here?

625

How can we do that?

626

What makes you special?

627

What is, you know, what is it

that, why do people buy from you?

628

And then who are those

good customers you want?

629

And we're not using ideal customer

archetype or things like that, but

630

just normal human being language.

631

Like, how is it, where do

you want to take this thing?

632

And what about this?

633

And what about that?

634

And where you know, what might be

most successful for you and the

635

people you serve as cus that where

you're, they're your customers.

636

That's the fun part.

637

But without this foundation, you

really can't have that conversation.

638

Yeah.

639

Brilliant.

640

Penny, any final thoughts,

comments, or questions?

641

Penny Breslin: I think, I think it would

be very interesting for people also

642

to know the size of Steven's company.

643

Steven.

644

How many employees do you have?

645

Um,

646

Steven Ladd: counting myself.

647

Two.

648

Penny Breslin: And how long do

you typically stay in the Catalyst

649

stage, and how many of them are in

the catalyst stage at the same time?

650

Steven Ladd: So the most we've

had so far is two at a time.

651

This catalyst stage is

designed to be 10 weeks.

652

It's often taken 12 or 13.

653

In one case it took about 20.

654

That's for a client that had 28 different

accounts of which money was shuffling

655

back and forth at a furious rate.

656

Penny Breslin: And of the clients

that have decided to continue

657

to do the, uh, allow you, uh,

to do the bookkeeping, mm-hmm.

658

Um.

659

What was, what was their initial reaction

when you started going in and showing them

660

stuff compared to the way they feel now?

661

Steven Ladd: Um,

662

Penny Breslin: well, did

you ever get any pushback?

663

Like the client just won't,

664

Steven Ladd: um, no.

665

The, the, the worst clients, the ones

that don't respond at all, and, and

666

we have question, we have a portal

system for asking, you know, technical

667

questions like, what's this expense for?

668

With automatic reminders set up twice

a week by email and some will go a

669

month between emails, text messages,

and phone calls not answering.

670

That's a very small minority.

671

Uh, my favorite client of late said

that when she started and heard about

672

the program, she says, this is just

another BS program that's, that's

673

gonna be people talking down to me.

674

It's gonna be a waste of my time,

but I'm gonna try it anyway because

675

maybe it'll help me get a loan.

676

It turns out, she says,

now it's opened my eyes.

677

You know, I can see how

my business can succeed.

678

And oh, by the way, she got a, a almost

quarter million dollar loan as a result of

679

having books that for the first time, the,

the, uh, banker could actually understand.

680

Penny Breslin: So I'd say you being

rather successful because you did

681

ask me this morning how many Catalyst

programs, 'cause we're part of also

682

the cleanup on these catalysts.

683

Oh yeah.

684

People, how, how many can we take on?

685

So, yeah.

686

Um, so it's, it's obviously been somewhat

of a success and now you're looking to

687

connect with a CPA or a tax accountant

who can help with that strategic tax

688

planning that the clients are now on.

689

Yeah.

690

Steven Ladd: Cool.

691

There, you know, there's a shortage of

tax repairs out there, and so we've tried

692

to bring our clients to certain ones

that we've heard good things about or had

693

good experiences with your other clients.

694

And there're being no bid

like crazy beautiful because

695

they don't have capacity.

696

So I'm looking for, I, I'd

really love to find a CPA who

697

is, who enjoys tax planning.

698

Of course, they like doing returns

and doing the best job they can.

699

There I, I had one that was wonderful

like that and he passed away a number of

700

years ago and I'm looking for something.

701

Mark is Mark.

702

Mark.

703

Read Tax Court.

704

He was awesome, fun.

705

Penny Breslin: Yeah,

706

Steven Ladd: he would read his stuff.

707

It's like, it's like reading

the stock pages, just the

708

numbers to see the patterns.

709

He loved that stuff.

710

He was a wonderful human being.

711

And, um, I'd like someone

who enjoys the tax stuff and

712

doesn't like the bookkeeping.

713

We, we could, you know,

partner up a little bit.

714

That would be a lot of fun.

715

Penny Breslin: Well, I, I, I

think we can try to find somebody.

716

I think I have somebody,

I have two people in mind.

717

I'm gonna, now that I know you want this.

718

Yeah.

719

Um, okay.

720

Damien Greathead: Okay, got it.

721

Um, this has been just, uh.

722

A really valuable and actually

heartwarming conversation because I even

723

with we're through Zoom and whatnot, but I

can feel your passion for small business.

724

I can feel your passion for

family business owners and,

725

and helping them succeed.

726

So thank you so much for, for sharing

your experiences and sharing the,

727

the ups and downs and the bumps

along the way and, and absolutely.

728

Um, I, I, I know our listeners will

get a, a huge amount out of you and,

729

and will give them confidence to take

this step because I think there is

730

a real need for it, particularly in

those businesses that drive the heart

731

of the American economy, that drive

the heart of the Australian economy.

732

Um, and, and I, I really appreciated

the way that you, you sort of

733

articulated that earlier on, so.

734

Steven, thank you so much for, for this.

735

This has been absolutely wonderful.

736

Um, I hope you, you thor out

up there in, uh, New Hampshire.

737

I'm gonna head off to the beach

now, but, uh, for, for a swim.

738

Um, and I'm not sure what Penny's

gonna do over there in San Diego,

739

but I'm gonna go down to the

740

Penny Breslin: harbor and have

a nice glass of wine with Rick.

741

'cause it's nice and beautiful out here.

742

Damien Greathead: Okay, so Steven,

with, with your permission, we'll share

743

your LinkedIn details on, in the show

notes so, uh, people can look you up

744

and, and connect with you as well.

745

And, uh, hopefully we'll be able to

make a couple of introductions, uh,

746

whether they be small business clients

or, or tax, uh, accountants that love

747

tax planning because, uh, we know a few.

748

So, um, yes.

749

Without, without further ado, ladies

and gentlemen, let's close this episode.

750

Say thank you very much, , Steven.

751

, Really appreciate your

insights on coming on the show.

752

Uh, penny.

753

Always a pleasure.

754

Uh, and, and folks, if you've enjoyed

listening or, or watching this episode,

755

, jump onto your review sites and, and share

it like it, , and leave us a comment.

756

And then if you do have any

questions, uh, reach out , to

757

Penny or myself via LinkedIn.

758

We're easy to find on LinkedIn,

penny Breslin or Damien gr.

759

And, uh, we'll get your questions

answered either by ourselves or,

760

or by, uh, one of our guests, uh,

in our after hours, uh, session.

761

So ladies and gentlemen.

762

It's been, it's just not the numbers.

763

And we look forward to,

uh, to our next episode.

764

See you.