Transcripts
Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I'm DJ
Speaker:Sir Daniel. And my name is Jay Ray, y'all, sometimes known by my government
Speaker:as Johnnie Ray Kornegay the third. And, Sir
Speaker:Daniel, I were feeling nostalgic today. This is when
Speaker:we get to talk about what we used to watch when we was young folk.
Speaker:Absolutely. Because we, you know, during one of our conversations and we go
Speaker:off on plenty of tangents, we started thinking, you know what?
Speaker:TV shows dedicated to variety shows. Mhmm.
Speaker:They're far and few in between today. But then we thought about
Speaker:even deeper. There was a time when if you were a black artist, a
Speaker:musician, there was not a lot of places for you to go and
Speaker:be showcased. Yep. So if you're a black,
Speaker:specifically around hip hop, when that came around, if you were a black
Speaker:musician, where else could you go? What could you
Speaker:be seen by the national audience? Well,
Speaker:on this episode of Queue Points, we're going to discuss that. We're going
Speaker:to talk about black artists and the national TV
Speaker:experience and starting off in, like, the from the mid eighties
Speaker:to the early nineties, black musicians had a clear
Speaker:path. Well, prior to that, there was a clear path for them as far
Speaker:as publicity was concerned. Of course, black
Speaker:radio has always been in effect as the is the backbone,
Speaker:and then a lot, of course, publications, black publications,
Speaker:and then you would get artists featured in other publications,
Speaker:national publications as well. Television television was
Speaker:a different thing. Television had a lot of standards
Speaker:Yes. Set by the f FCC. And then, of course, if we're talking
Speaker:about pre civil
Speaker:rights, movement era Oh, yeah. Throughout the civil rights
Speaker:movement era, post Jim Crow, if you
Speaker:were black and seen on television, I'm pretty
Speaker:certain it was a a very, very controlled environment,
Speaker:and especially if you were a performer. Yes. Oh, they weren't
Speaker:good. You had to keep them hips still. Yes. There was no
Speaker:gyrating of the hips. Everything probably had to be from the, from
Speaker:the the waist up, and you had to be very careful about what you were
Speaker:singing about and at how you looked on
Speaker:television programs back then. But,
Speaker:yeah. And so but as we evolved as artists,
Speaker:especially coming along with the, advent of hip hop
Speaker:Mhmm. You know, black people, wanted an
Speaker:edgier look, edgier vibes and sounds,
Speaker:but where were you going to go if you wanted to
Speaker:get on television? Because television, Jay Ray, was
Speaker:king. Yeah. There's no other
Speaker:way around it. It was so
Speaker:in order to get on national TV, there were really
Speaker:only a few places that you can go unless you crossed over
Speaker:and you would have to cross over to a
Speaker:really major degree on the
Speaker:pop charts to really kind of be taken seriously
Speaker:in terms of white specific shows. Now what's interesting is we're
Speaker:talking about national exposure. Right? Yes. There were
Speaker:always regional shows like top of mind. I'm
Speaker:thinking, you know, they're in New York. They had Soul, which was on
Speaker:PBS. It was Ellis Haze Lip, which
Speaker:did feature a lot of black artists in
Speaker:the 19 seventies, but that was not a national show. Right?
Speaker:No. It was an amazing and groundbreaking show, but you
Speaker:kinda had to be in the region to know anything about it. But from
Speaker:a national standpoint, especially in the 19 eighties
Speaker:19 nineties, with the, with the rise of hip
Speaker:hop, there was really just a few places that you can go
Speaker:and even the black shows. So we're gonna talk
Speaker:about a show in a minute. Even the black shows were resisted to hip hop
Speaker:at the beginning. Like, it was not the black
Speaker:shows, the the the major nationally
Speaker:syndicated black show was resistant to hip
Speaker:hop at the beginning because, you know,
Speaker:they came along in those, you know, the late sixties, early
Speaker:seventies, and it was just a different time. So, of course, we're
Speaker:talking about one of the places that if you were a black artist and a
Speaker:place that you can go was Soul Train. Right?
Speaker:Yes. Soul Train started Soul Train was started out locally
Speaker:as you were talking about in Chicago. It was a local show.
Speaker:But then in, October October 2, 1971,
Speaker:went national and became syndicated in
Speaker:every household across the country. Let's just sit with that for a
Speaker:moment and imagine being a young black
Speaker:person and turning on the television and seeing
Speaker:everybody looking like you, just
Speaker:bopping and having a good time. And when I see those clips online, Jay
Speaker:Ray, I have to real quick. When I see those clips online and say, I
Speaker:just love how that everybody was bopping in in sync,
Speaker:especially when, like, BT Express came on, do it to to your satisfied.
Speaker:Everybody was like, you know, moving in syndication.
Speaker:And it's it's those things that just stand out to me up and how
Speaker:beautiful, Soul Train, looked
Speaker:aesthetically. They had all the black commercials Yeah. Like, you
Speaker:know, Afro Sheen. Afro Sheen. Why do we all think of Afro Sheen first?
Speaker:It's always Afro Sheen, and it makes you look like Cleopatra. You know,
Speaker:all the things that we love, that we needed in,
Speaker:as consumers as well back in the day. But you're
Speaker:right. You know, imagine coming up in the sixties seventies, you know, Don
Speaker:Cornelius is very suited and strict. And here come
Speaker:these hip hoppers. These these hippity hops with their
Speaker:Hippity hoppers. Sneakers and chains.
Speaker:And and, and god bless them, Don Cornelius
Speaker:interviewing rappers was always the funniest thing. So
Speaker:mister Cool Mo d with the very long
Speaker:microphone, mister Cool Mo d. What does the Mo d
Speaker:mean? You know, I'm I'm being facetious, but it was very
Speaker:you could tell there was a a disconnect between Don Cornelius
Speaker:and the uprising culture of hip hop. Yeah. But
Speaker:we still had a place to go. Yes. It was still
Speaker:an important place for someone on the come up to stop
Speaker:at Soul Train because Soul Train Soul Train is
Speaker:just a part of black culture, and you have to go there.
Speaker:You have to be a part of that show. It's a part of your your
Speaker:journey as an artist. The black artist is to be on Soul Train.
Speaker:Mhmm. Yeah. Soul Train. I mean, Soul Train ran
Speaker:for so long. It's crazy to thank y'all. Shamar Moore was a
Speaker:host of Soul Train for, like, a long time. Shamar You're
Speaker:trying to forget that, especially when he was dancing. He was
Speaker:shabar Moore, who's always on your TV sets,
Speaker:weekly, hostess Soul Train for a long time at the same time that
Speaker:he was on, like, the young and the restless or one of the or the
Speaker:bold and the beautiful, whatever. But it's where we had to
Speaker:go. And, such an important and
Speaker:iconic show. So we definitely wanted to lift that
Speaker:up. But now so to that point. So Soul
Speaker:Train for me, Sir Daniel, I'm curious for
Speaker:you in New York and, in the Atlanta area. For me,
Speaker:Soul Train came on on Saturdays, so I got to see
Speaker:it after cartoons. So it would typically be, like,
Speaker:whenever cartoons ended. So either 11 or 12
Speaker:before the kung fu Saturday, we would get
Speaker:an hour of Soul Train. When did Soul Train come on for you?
Speaker:So, as I've told you all on this podcast before, you know, I grew up
Speaker:7th day Adventist. Oh, that's right.
Speaker:So I was always yanked to church on Saturday
Speaker:morning, except for the the few times that
Speaker:that I got to stay home or I played sick and got to stay
Speaker:home, and I would have to sneak and
Speaker:turn on the television to see the cartoons like you were just saying Mhmm.
Speaker:And to catch Soul Train. But you're absolutely right. I think it was the same.
Speaker:The the the timing was around the same. Okay. The format
Speaker:came like, you came on around noon after the cartoons.
Speaker:So yeah. Because well, we're in the tristate area. Yeah. So I don't
Speaker:think it was that different from where you were in Pennsylvania.
Speaker:But, yeah, that's around the same time that it came on. But,
Speaker:man, stealing those moments to see Soul Train
Speaker:and by that time to see whoever the guest host would be Mhmm.
Speaker:Because like you said, you had your Shamar Moores. You had your Tashina Arnolds.
Speaker:Yeah. And whoever was popping at the time would be a guest host
Speaker:on Soul Train. So Soul Train did a great job of passing
Speaker:down the baton when it came to having
Speaker:hosts and people being a part of the show. And
Speaker:Soul Train was a a midday type of thing. Right? Yes. It was a daytime
Speaker:type of show, but nighttime television
Speaker:was also popping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Television was
Speaker:you know, back in the day, you had your Dick Cavett. Of course, you had
Speaker:Johnny Carson, who was the GOAT. Yes.
Speaker:And what's the other the other comedian? The
Speaker:Chin. Who? David Letterman? David let well, David Letterman
Speaker:and the one he was, feuding with was going up against. Who
Speaker:was he going up against? Uh-huh. We talked about Conan. Jay Leno.
Speaker:Jay Leno. Jay Leno. Who took over actually, he took over The Tonight Show from,
Speaker:Johnny Carson. Yeah. Exactly. So you know who else
Speaker:who did a guest stint on The Carson Show?
Speaker:Arsenio.
Speaker:Man, you wanna talk about comic. You wanna talk about
Speaker:the most important night
Speaker:time show. I feel like in TV
Speaker:history, there was nothing
Speaker:like the Arsenio Hall show in the late eighties and the
Speaker:early nineties, and shout out to our folks. They reminisce over
Speaker:you. They do a great show about the history of the Arsenio Hall show. Go
Speaker:check that out. But that show, Sir Daniel,
Speaker:late night, that is where you wanted to be. That was the
Speaker:coolest show on TV. That was the ticket.
Speaker:I mean, Arsenio had it was Arsenio and he had
Speaker:the posse. The posse? Were you David Owen?
Speaker:And he had Arsenio became, he became
Speaker:larger than life to us specifically because we saw that's
Speaker:one of the first places that we saw hip hop Yes.
Speaker:Being celebrated, not just, you know,
Speaker:here's this group, they've got a hit on the charts,
Speaker:such and such, you know, a rap group. Arsenio
Speaker:knows of the culture, is of the culture, and would have them
Speaker:on, and then would also talk to them, would have the artists speak to
Speaker:them. After the show, they would have an interview session,
Speaker:which a lot of artists didn't get. They just came and performed, and then that
Speaker:was it. But on Arsenio, you got to sit on the couch with him.
Speaker:You got to chop chop it up with him. You felt safe with him there.
Speaker:I keep going back to this moment, in a tribe called Quest
Speaker:History Mhmm. Where they went on the show and performed,
Speaker:and, a audience member, some white dude, got up and was,
Speaker:like, putting his thumbs down and booing them during their performance because
Speaker:they were sampling that, this was when they would do a performing,
Speaker:Can I Kick It? At the time, they were going through some litigation with Lou
Speaker:Reed, who's the original song, it's called Walk on the Wild Side Mhmm.
Speaker:That Can I Kick It samples? And, you know, some guy was in the audience
Speaker:being vocal about and being disrespectful. Arsenio
Speaker:stopped the music, called the man out and
Speaker:and blessed him in front of everybody and was like, how dare you?
Speaker:These are some kids, some talented kids. They've got a hit record
Speaker:and we're gonna respect them. Yes. Arsenio had so
Speaker:much respect from all of us at that time. He was respectful
Speaker:of the he showed love to the east, and he showed love to the West
Speaker:Coast because the show was, filmed right there on the West Coast. So a lot
Speaker:of Cali rappers, got a lot of exposure on
Speaker:Arsenio Hall show. Jerry, do you remember when Arsenio dropped his
Speaker:own rap record? Oh, was that the chunky a?
Speaker:Chunky. Wow. That just flew
Speaker:back. The parody record. The parody
Speaker:songs. What was the one? Dang. He chunky
Speaker:but funky. I think that was the name of the album. Right?
Speaker:Yeah. That Arsenio, yeah, he played in our face a little bit
Speaker:with that one, but he's still he's still a legend and
Speaker:still created a platform for
Speaker:black musicianship. Yeah. In the late eighties
Speaker:throughout the nineties, that show premiered January 3,
Speaker:1989. Yeah. And it went on till 1994.
Speaker:Yeah. Abruptly, of course, off the air, but shout out
Speaker:to that was definitely a place from a national standpoint that you
Speaker:could get some exposure. And this next show
Speaker:that we wanted to talk about does not get brought up enough in these
Speaker:conversations and it deserves to. For sure. Because
Speaker:we owe Dee Barnes so much
Speaker:for what she did for the culture, and
Speaker:the fact that she gave us pump it up. So I remember being able to
Speaker:check out pump it up, which is a national,
Speaker:show. So we're talking about shows that were on network TV too. I wanna be
Speaker:clear because some people might be like, but there was yo. Yo was on cable.
Speaker:Yes. So back everybody didn't have luxury. Cable was a
Speaker:luxury. Everybody didn't have cable. So if you needed
Speaker:to, from a national standpoint, to get some exposure, you wanted to show that was
Speaker:on network television. Right? So I got to the opportunity to
Speaker:see Pump It Up. It was on Fox, at the time,
Speaker:when I was young. And I remember being able to
Speaker:stay up late. Now I did have access to cable,
Speaker:but I stayed up late still on a Saturday night
Speaker:specifically. I think it came on before
Speaker:Saturday night live where I was or was like right while Saturday night
Speaker:live was happening. But anyway, I got a chance to catch Pump It Up,
Speaker:on Fox, and, I got a chance to see
Speaker:artists because it was taped in LA. It was a very LA centric
Speaker:show. I got to be introduced to artists out there that I had never been
Speaker:introduced to before. I remember swaying King Tech
Speaker:would play on there. So I got a chance to be introduced to artists like
Speaker:that that I would never know. And King t Pump It
Speaker:Up was a place where you could go and Dee would talk to you. She
Speaker:was from hip hop. She would talk to you like hip hop and
Speaker:really give you a solid interview, but also show music videos. So
Speaker:that was a dope spot for me to be able to see artists.
Speaker:Yeah. I specifically appreciate how
Speaker:she did like, they did this kind of gorilla form
Speaker:of recording where they would be out on location Yeah.
Speaker:And would have the artists meet up in various locations.
Speaker:Like, we ever since, Dave from De La Soul passed away, you know,
Speaker:all the old clips kept resurfacing of them out in California
Speaker:meeting with her and then being out in some fields somewhere, you
Speaker:know, talking about the albums and whatnot. And so it just
Speaker:it was a really a truly organic and
Speaker:fun time. And like you said, we need to give
Speaker:Dee Barnes her proppers big time for
Speaker:doing that. You you mentioned Pump It Up came on late
Speaker:on Saturday night. Mhmm. So in New York, Pump It Up came on after
Speaker:SNL Mhmm. And right before
Speaker:Showtime at the Apollo, which is the next syndicated
Speaker:Yep. Platform that we're gonna talk about. September
Speaker:12, 1987, Showtime at the Apollo goes
Speaker:nationally syndicated, but still late at night,
Speaker:but apparently, we were all staying up late so we could watch Showtime at the
Speaker:Apollo. Yeah. So tell me the Apollo not only was a place
Speaker:for national recording artists to go on, but so tell me the
Speaker:Apollo was like the original American Idol. Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, it really was because the Apollo Amateur night was
Speaker:famous and replicated so
Speaker:much even when you watch, even when you see the film dream girls or or
Speaker:talk about, like, amateur night. We were really
Speaker:all those years replicating what the Apollo Theater had been doing. So,
Speaker:yeah, you're absolutely right. That was the original
Speaker:black American Idol. You're right. And it had
Speaker:numerous guest hosts. We've spoken about Malcolm Jamal Warner
Speaker:being a guest host. Of course, famously Steve Harvey
Speaker:with his, hot top fade hair piece that we all found out
Speaker:later. That we all found out later. Sin our brother Sinbad.
Speaker:Sinbad. Yes. Can't give he cannot glaze over
Speaker:Sinbad. And you know what? You know who became iconic from this
Speaker:show? Well, 2 people. Sandman.
Speaker:Yes. Sandman was a whole icon.
Speaker:And of course, the lovely Kiki Shepherd
Speaker:who would slink onto the stage, who would rub the tree
Speaker:stump and what she was famous for putting her hand over the
Speaker:heads of the contestants on
Speaker:Yes. Amateur night, and she was just she was just it. You know, the beautiful
Speaker:smile, a dark skinned woman and that Absolutely. Being
Speaker:an icon of late night television. And like we said,
Speaker:so many stars came through that show, hip hop, r and b,
Speaker:jazz. There's such a there's a story
Speaker:attached to Showtime at the Apollo, which is a
Speaker:bittersweet story because I remember seeing the
Speaker:trajectory of this person on amateur night
Speaker:Yeah. Go from a shy
Speaker:contestant to a continuous
Speaker:winner. Yeah. A lot of you may not know the name, but
Speaker:you should know the name David Piston.
Speaker:David Piston was a if I'm not mistaken, he's
Speaker:from Ohio. So when the Midwest, I feel like I feel like it was
Speaker:like Saint Louis, but somewhere in the Midwest. Saint Louis in the yeah. So when
Speaker:he was a school teacher Mhmm. And he came out, and he
Speaker:he liked to sing. Now David Peterson was a big guy.
Speaker:Yep. Unassuming, you
Speaker:could tell he was nervous, but he was shy. But when he opened up his
Speaker:mouth, he sang that house down
Speaker:to the point where he came back week after week Yep. And he was
Speaker:packing everybody up. Each week, he packed everybody
Speaker:up, and he went on to win several times as,
Speaker:as a amateur contestant on Showtime at the Apollo.
Speaker:So much to the point where he got a record deal. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. He got a record deal and became an actual recording
Speaker:artist. Mhmm. But, unfortunately,
Speaker:we still don't there's a a gap in that history. A lot of people
Speaker:don't remember that piece of the
Speaker:David Piston story. Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, David Piston is one of
Speaker:those artists that also deserves to be
Speaker:remembered to your point, Sir Daniel, about his trajectory
Speaker:on his showtime at the Apollo.
Speaker:In addition to the fact that, you know, he
Speaker:was really trying to make it as a recording artist in the 19
Speaker:eighties as a big black man in an industry
Speaker:that wasn't particularly fond. You had to be a certain type of black man. If
Speaker:you weren't Gerald Levert, like that type of black man, that type of big
Speaker:black man, it was gonna be different for you. And David Piston wasn't that.
Speaker:Right? But he got the opportunity to make 2
Speaker:records, and unfortunately died,
Speaker:got sick really early and then died really early.
Speaker:But, is one of those artists that came
Speaker:directly from that stage
Speaker:into our homes as a recording
Speaker:artist, and that is the power of what
Speaker:it show time at the Apollo was able to do and that Apollo amateur
Speaker:night stage. Absolutely. And that's why we have
Speaker:to lift up these platforms, and you have
Speaker:to remember them. You have to remember Soul Train. You
Speaker:gotta give it up for Arsenio Hall. You have to
Speaker:pay respect to to Dee Barnes and Pump It Up, and we
Speaker:have to show love to Showtime at the Apollo because without a
Speaker:lot of these shows, some of your favorite artists, iconic
Speaker:artists, legendary status artists would not have been seen
Speaker:on a nationally syndicated show. We do
Speaker:before we wrap up, we do have to point out this one
Speaker:sparkling moment in rap
Speaker:music history. Yeah. February 14,
Speaker:1981, Debbie Harry introduces the
Speaker:musical guest of the night on Saturday night
Speaker:live, and it is the funky
Speaker:4 plus 1 more. 1st
Speaker:rap group ever to be featured on a national
Speaker:television platform. J Ray, talk about
Speaker:it. Man. So I
Speaker:didn't see this until much later.
Speaker:You know, I didn't see it because as a as a kid, I was probably
Speaker:like 4. But as I started getting
Speaker:into, v h one actually showed me
Speaker:this history. Because remember VH one would kind of do a year in
Speaker:or they would do, like, these these wrap ups of what would happen. And I
Speaker:remember seeing it on maybe an I love the eighties or something like that.
Speaker:And I was floored to know that this happened,
Speaker:and eventually Saturday night live released like a
Speaker:DVD or some type of series where you could see,
Speaker:like, old clips and things from the thing. So I was able to rent it
Speaker:and see it. Man, these
Speaker:were kids. Yep. In
Speaker:this new form of music
Speaker:birthed in New York, Debbie Harry was already a huge
Speaker:fan. Right? So she was already white girl rapping in, like,
Speaker:rapture. Right? Fat Fat Freddie. You know what I'm saying? So she was already
Speaker:hip, and I'm sure she championed, like, no. They need to
Speaker:be on the show. Yes. But the fact that you get to see these young
Speaker:men and this young girl Who completely
Speaker:steals the show. Who completely steals the show rapping on stage,
Speaker:it reminded you how important representation
Speaker:was. Absolutely. And so
Speaker:that's what we do here on Q Points Podcast. Thank you so much for
Speaker:going down this road of black music
Speaker:history. J Ray, remind the people how they can get more of Q
Speaker:Points Podcast in their life. Y'all,
Speaker:this is dope. Thank you all for hanging out with us. So first and foremost,
Speaker:if you can see our faces, if you can hear our voices, hit the subscribe
Speaker:button wherever you are. And if they have a notification bell, hit that too. Do
Speaker:us a solid and share the show with your friends, family, colleagues. If you enjoy
Speaker:Queue Points, chances are they will also enjoy Queue Points.
Speaker:Please go ahead and support the show. You can use
Speaker:Cash App, you can buy us a coffee, or you can shop our store at
Speaker:store.cuepoints.com. We'd really appreciate it. Get dope gear like
Speaker:our Slow Jambs can heal us, shirt and much, much
Speaker:more. And visit our website at cuepointsdot com where you could sign up for our
Speaker:newsletter and read our blog. We really appreciate y'all, and we love
Speaker:y'all. That's right. Like I always say, in this life, you have
Speaker:a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record
Speaker:play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel. My name is Jay Ray y'all. And
Speaker:this has been Q Points podcast, dropping the needle on black
Speaker:music history. We will see you on the next go round. Peace
Speaker:y'all. Peace.
