In this episode of Podjunction, we talk about leveraging your podcast to supercharge your business. In this episode, hosts Matt Edmundson and Sadaf introduce Eagan Heath, a seasoned marketer who has cracked the code on using podcasts to boost business growth. Whether you’re new to podcasting or a seasoned pro, this episode is packed with insights and actionable tips that will help you harness the power of podcasting to elevate your business.

Episode Highlights:

1. Alignment of Podcast Content with Business Goals: Learn how aligning your podcast content with your business objectives can build trust and drive growth.
2. Long-term Commitment and Consistency: Discover why having a long-term outlook and consistent content production are crucial for podcast success.
3. Effective Outreach and Guest Selection: Eagan shares his tips on how to be concise and clear in your communication to attract the right guests and opportunities.
4. Strategic Content Creation: Understand the importance of having a clear, niche-focused content strategy for your podcast.
5. Rebranding and Evolution: Hear about Eagan’s journey through multiple rebrands and how he continuously refines his podcast to better serve his audience.

Engage with Us:

• Website: Visit Podjunction.com for more episodes.
• Instagram: Follow us @PodjunctionPodcast and join the conversation.
• Feedback: Got a story to share or a question for the hosts? Drop us a message on our website or Instagram.

Don't forget to subscribe for more behind-the-scenes insights and practical tips to take your podcast to the next level. Whether you're just starting or looking to revamp your existing podcast, join us on this unscripted journey of podcast growth and community building!

Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting, whether

you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just

simply taking a minute for yourself.

Our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters

who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or a seasoned podcaster,

this episode is for you.

Hello and welcome to Podjunction Podcast with Matt Edmundson

and I.

And I, Sadaf.

No?

Me?

It's

supposed to be I.

I'm speaking proper English.

I'm not going to correct your English because that would just

be wrong on so many levels.

Anyway, welcome to the show.

Yeah, and welcome to you too.

We're in one of those moods, ladies and gentlemen, where

we've just been laughing an awful lot before we hit the record button.

So it may come across on today's podcast.

Yeah, I apologize for that.

All right.

So today

We have Eagan Heath, my conversation with Eagan Heath that we really

upped in our last episode.

So what

did we say about it?

That it was going to be great.

Oh, that's right.

It's going to be epic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you're not a regular to the show, let me explain to you.

If this is your first time, there's a warm welcome, by the way.

It's great to you've got to do things like that when you welcome people.

Podjunction is a podcast about helping you grow your business

with podcasting as well.

That's the other thing you're supposed to say.

So this is the first show that Sadaf has introduced.

We're going to have a conversation about maybe how to improve that.

For the next show cause we just like to leave things unedited,

that's just the way we do it.

And yes that's just the way it works.

Yes, we bigged it up because this is your first time doing the interview.

Now, how this works, ladies and gentlemen, if it's your first time

with us, is we interview someone who is a podcaster about how they use

podcasting to grow their business.

And we take snips and clips from that interview and then

we chat about it, right?

And so up until now, it's been me doing those interviews, but

Sadaf is starting to take the reins, which is a beautiful thing.

And you had the conversation with the incredible Eagan Heath,

who is an absolute legend.

Actually, I really like Eagan.

He's a nice guy.

He's been on some of our podcasts.

I've been on his podcast and now you're interviewing for this.

So this is your first interview, which we bigged up in the last episode.

Cause we were like, this is going to be epic.

You're not going to want to miss it.

Yeah.

And that's where we are.

And in so in this episode, not only do you get to hear Sadaf interview

for the first time, you get to hear her introduce for the first time.

You've just heard that it's this is a podcaster first, right?

How do you think it's going so far?

It's going.

Hopefully on the clock is ticking.

Yes, on

the up and up.

So warm welcome to you.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to this.

I genuinely I'm looking forward to I think it's gonna be great.

I've not actually heard this interview yet.

No, you haven't.

All right.

So it's Eagan Heath in this particular segment, he's talking

about how he grew his marketing agency with the help of the podcast.

So how the podcast, his podcast boosted his business.

So should I play the video clip now?

Yes.

Is that all right?

Actually, I could ask you a question.

I'll ask you a question.

Okay.

Hang on.

Three minutes ago, when we said what's going on in this show?

What's the format?

You're like, I've not got a question.

We'll go straight into the clip.

I found one.

Okay.

Scripted.

That's what this show is.

All right.

So Matt, if you could host a round table discussion.

On your podcast, whichever one you would want to host it on, with any

three people and talk about anything, what would, who would you invite

and what would you talk about?

Wow, that's quite an open-ended question.

There's a lot of parameters there that are.

So let's just pick a, just pick one, which podcast.

Let's go with Push.

Push.

So for those of you listening that Dunno what Push is.

Push is one of the podcasts that I host where I interview CEOs and

leaders about challenges they faced.

What do we see?

We push where do you have to push through?

What do you do to be, how do you refill your tank, basically?

And what does more look like?

Where's the future going?

, and so they always spark interesting conversation.

So I'm with Push.

What was the other one?

I've got three people around the table

and

they can be any people.

And I would have Elon Musk, Richard Branson.

Ooh, I think I should probably throw in a bit of a wild card for the third one.

I am gonna say slightly contentiously, JK Rowling.

Okay.

Nice.

And I think it would be really interesting

just having those people around the table more than anything.

And just let them talk.

Yeah.

Just let them talk.

What would

you talk about?

You've got Elon Musk, JK Rowling, what's a

common denominator is Twitter.

So using Twitter obviously Elon Musk owns Twitter and JK Rowling has been

in the press because of Twitter.

Richard Branson.

I think he's like the generation after Elon Musk, isn't he?

So you can look at Elon and say, this is almost like the grandfather now, isn't he?

He's like the godfather of entrepreneurship, Richard Branson.

And so it'd be good to bring his sort of wisdom into it.

So yeah, I would just talk about what it's like just being in the public eye.

Is fame worth it?

Pitfalls to watch out for the different phases of life and success.

I think it would be an interesting podcast.

So Elon, if you're listening, Richard, if you're listening, JK Rowling,

if you're listening, let's do it.

I'm up for it if you are.

Do you think they're watching this show?

Do you think they'll get the invite?

I think we should send them an invite.

Yeah,

let's see what happens.

If it ever does happen, I'll let you know.

But I think for me, having guests on the show is all about interesting people.

And to be fair, I'd almost, I'm just as happy interviewing, say, my mum, my

brother and my My cousin or something, do you know what I mean, just getting strange

bit, I can't call my family straight, they are strange actually, lovely but strange.

So I don't know, it's one of those, as long as they're

interesting people, I'm happy.

But if, yeah, I'd probably go for people that ordinarily wouldn't come on the show.

Yeah.

Which would just be interesting conversation.

And the

reason I said we'd have to reach out to them is because

PodJunction is not on Twitter yet.

We're only on Instagram.

Yeah, but I still think they will listen to podcasts.

I think they might come across this.

I think that I think they're out there all of them going, I've got a podcast.

I'm thinking of setting up a podcast.

How can I use it to grow my business and my, my personal brand

and they're going to go, they're going to come across Podjunction.

Yeah, this is a great show.

And this is Sadaf's first introduction and first interview.

I'm in.

So that's what I think is going to happen.

I've sold it well, I know.

Alright, let's do this.

Alright, here's Eagan.

I've been running an agency now, this is my 8th year.

And we've started with local SEO and Google Ads and things like that.

And at some point moved into the eCommerce piece as well.

So we're running, paid search, paid social for a while.

eCommerce clients and got into email marketing and automation.

And I just saw what podcasting had done for other people in the space.

Sometimes they had private membership groups.

Sometimes they had agencies and I just saw they were nice and far along where

they were past that a hundred episode mark, if not multi hundred episode.

And it was clear that they were getting great lead flow from it.

And just like I realized, To really get where I want to be, it's going to

take three years was my expectation.

And I was just like, I don't want another three years to

elapse and I don't have one.

Like I want to have some platform where I'm just regularly creating content,

getting out there, building that trust.

I think particularly with video, it's just so powerful.

If people see you, they get this, a negative way to say it is, parasocial.

It's not necessarily a bad word, but it's just like people

feel like they know you, right?

So if if they can see your content and see that.

You're trustworthy, you're authoritative, et cetera.

You're providing them reciprocity or you're giving them something.

It just built so much trust.

So I knew I wanted to start that flywheel.

So really started as we pivot.

I, so we had been Get Found Madison.

We're in Madison, Wisconsin, outside of Chicago in the U S and then we

were like, okay let's kind of pivot.

Let's be an e commerce agency.

And so we became Caravan Digital with that.

Okay.

So

it's almost kind of part of the rebrand, part of the niching down.

Let's make sure we've got a show that's all about eCommerce.

And so that was the journey there.

I've now even, I took on a business partner this year and we've rebranded yet

again, so we're asymmetric marketing now.

So we're in the process of rebranding the podcast and things like that.

But it's, as soon as, One thing that was nice is as soon as I started

up, we were getting all kinds of pitches of people wanting to be on it.

So one thing, one thing that has not been the hard part is getting guests of

people want to talk about this stuff.

And so that's been really nice.

How did you source those people?

I know they came to you, but what was it that drew them

to you, is a better question.

Yeah, and I think there's this whole thing of, niching

in the agency world of how do we, figure out, we can do local business

lead gen, we can do eCommerce, maybe even niche within eCommerce

or niche within local businesses.

Same idea with your content creation of how niche is your podcast, who

do you serve and how do you really force yourself to make it more narrow

so it's not just for everybody?

And I think the fact that it was eCommerce specific helped.

There's this whole industry of people that do podcast outreach and so

they can help get you on podcasts.

And basically these other agency owners, digital marketers, eCommerce

marketers, brand owners, they would have people where they're, it's kind

of part of their PR and their marketing efforts to get on other people's shows.

And so they, are paying someone professionally to just do

outreach and get them on podcasts.

And I think that in between, like those brokers really make it happen and it's

been a great source of, oftentimes we're having to say no to people

of just, Hey, we're too far behind.

We got to edit our episodes and get them out or just, Hey, this isn't a great fit.

We're really looking for eCommerce specific.

Yeah.

Do you do pre calls?

How do you figure out whether those people are fit?

Yeah.

And I should say, I still consider us early in the process.

We've got more than 100 episodes recorded.

We are yet to get all of them live.

We're in the, I think we're in the 80s or 90s as we speak now, so we're just trying

to get those scheduled and out, basically.

It's really been a challenge.

That's been the bottleneck.

Not so much having people on there.

In terms of our process, it really is kind of discussion via email.

I now have an assistant, Miriam, who's helping me with that piece, and

we're working on the criteria there.

It's often just email discussion.

If I have any advice for these people who are doing the pitches,

you really gotta make it shorter.

Maybe it's just me.

I'm literally an ADHD entrepreneur.

So it's you got to get to the point with me.

And people send me these novels that are multi paragraphs long.

And if it seems like, okay, they'll have a couple of things in both.

So and so is a CEO.

They did an eCommerce launch yada.

I'm just like.

Give me three to five bullet points on what they're going to talk about, and

sometimes even with that instruction, the people pitching still don't do it if they

come back with another novel and it's just

I don't,

I think yeah, my assistant Miriam, I think could do that, but

if you're, in general, if you're doing any kind of cold outreach,

whether it's for clients or for getting on podcasts or podcast guests

or anything, I think you really got to be concise and get to the point.

Yeah.

I'm biased on that, or I'm just like, I don't read long emails.

If my team sends me long emails, I'm like, you got to make it shorter.

I'm busy.

So it's a weird tangent on that, but that's the biggest one is

do they actually have something specific to say about eCommerce?

Cause that's really the topic.

That's the topic, that's the focus of the show.

And then, can you tell me, what is a topic we can talk about if we don't

have to just stick with that topic, but I have to get a sense of you've

got some expertise and you've got something to share with the audience.

So we're trying to suss that out through email.

I'm sure if you talk with me, by episode 200, we'll have a better process on that.

That ended quicker than I was expecting.

You were drinking tea and I was making notes.

So welcome back.

Eagan, what a legend he is.

And yeah, he's a fascinating chap, isn't he?

One of the things he said, which I really loved was he said, Oh,

we're still early in the process.

We're only on episode 18.

I'm like such a legend, absolute legend.

Whereas most people I'm early in the process.

I'm on episode two.

Yeah.

He's I was still early in the process, episode 18.

And he had this sort of, he said at the start that he had a three year.

Outlook, didn't he?

It's like it's going to be three years really for us to start to

see good lead flow from this.

Which I thought was an interesting comment because it, this is the thing, isn't it?

With podcasting, there are always the outliers, right?

There's always the one or two podcasts where you start instantly, you're

getting thousands of downloads for whatever reason, all the stars have

aligned and it's just gone nuts.

For 98 percent of the people, that does not happen.

And there are reasons for that I am sure, lots of reasons.

So you have to have a bit more of a long term mindset if you're going to try and,

if your aim is to build an audience.

And I love that, what Eagan said, have a three year outlook.

I'm still early in the process of episode 18.

We've done a hundred episodes.

I've got 20 episodes that still need to be edited.

He's found the same problem that we had with Push.

We just had one episode.

Way too many people that wanted to be on the show straight away.

And we recorded all these episodes.

In fact, we were playing episodes from.

Months ago still on me.

It's just, it's crazy in a lot of ways, but yeah, interesting guy interesting

what he had to say about that longevity.

Love that.

Take that on board.

Top tip.

Yeah, for sure.

I really like the way he laid it all out.

It was really clear that the pot that he had aligned his podcast to go

alongside his business really well.

Yeah.

It wasn't just, Oh, this is another platform I could market on.

Like he was very clear about the content he wanted to.

Yeah.

Like he said, to build trust with people, it was that consistent

content he was putting out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had a very definite game plan, didn't he, for his industry.

And I think, again, that's super, super important, coming back to

the reason behind your podcast.

What does it, what is it there for?

What's its purpose?

Why does it exist?

And it doesn't, it can change and it can evolve.

I think there was probably slight undertones of that, actually, with

Inkstar doing a rebrand now, he said.

Or they're changing things around on that podcast, they have,

they rebranded to asymmetric marketing from Caravan Digital.

I quite like Caravan Digital.

It's just a cool name.

I dunno why.

Anyway, so they've obviously rebranded and they're rejigging things around, but

having a clear sense of purpose as to why this show exists, who we're serving, what

kind of content we're gonna put out there.

And it, I think people get obsessed with had an email this

morning actually from someone.

Thinking of doing a podcast, it's not a super competitive space, but I think we

can be different because of X, Y, and Z.

And I'm like, I don't know, this whole idea of being different

for the sake of being different.

I don't know if it's essential, I'm not saying be the same as

everybody else, but I think you've got to do what makes sense for you.

I think you've got to do what you.

are willing to do for 80 episodes and still smile about it, and if you're trying

to be something that's not really you I think you're gonna find that quite hard.

But so it doesn't matter if it's the same format or a similar content,

there's lots of eCommerce podcasts.

I've got one, and I dare say there's stuff that I talk about my show that Eagan's

talked about on his and that's okay.

We both have different audiences.

Maybe there's some overlap.

Maybe there isn't, but I don't have to, I don't sit there and think, Oh, Christmas,

how is every episode got to be different?

I've got to have a different topic, different questions

and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think just because I'm doing it, it's different.

Just because Eagan's doing it, it's different.

Because your

questions will be different.

Yeah.

So don't worry too much about being different.

I think you have got to worry about.

What works for you, what will you love talking about?

What is engaging for you?

Because that's going to come across, right?

There's no point in us doing a podcast about hairstyling.

I

don't know.

Maybe you would like that.

It's just, yeah.

Hairstyling.

I get up, I wash my hair and it's done.

Boom.

There it is.

It's a short podcast, but I'd have absolutely no passion for it.

And so I think you've got to have it aligned to your business,

aligned to your passion.

You've got to think about longevity.

And I think if you think about things like that, you're

actually, you'll do quite well.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's the niche he was talking about as well, isn't it?

Yeah, niche.

Niche, sorry, yeah, he said niche.

Do you not say

niche in your Canadian, or have you just been

anglicized a bit too much now and you don't know what you're saying?

No, I think I've always been a bit confused.

What was I saying?

Yeah.

So about being very clear about the content that you're creating,

that was his thing, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Be super, super clear about it.

And

I think that makes, it makes so much

sense to me just having that.

That clarity around it.

Yeah.

And I don't he also said he was an ADHD entrepreneur.

Like he's, whether that plays into him also wanting to niche down

as well, because, he just wants clear, concise communication.

And

Obviously it does.

Cause just send me an email with three bullet points.

Anymore, I'm not interested.

It's way too long.

I was laughing because I'm the same way.

I'm just like, I just, I have, I'm so bored of reading emails.

I'm out.

Just three points is fine.

And in fact, one point is even better, right?

So I was smiling when I, when he talked about that but he obviously

brings that into the podcast and into his way of doing things.

And I think that, that works super well.

So yeah interesting points about the Clarity.

So I guess what are the takeaways here?

We're talking about it.

What would be the takeaways

besides the awkward silences?

Yes.

So I'm just looking at my notes.

I think for us, like going back to the point that he made about

I guess reading between the lines about aligning the podcasts.

With your business.

To help then grow your business.

'cause that's what PodJunction about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Isn't it like we want to use the podcast.

You're supposed to tell them that's all secret.

using the podcast to grow our business.

The Covid Secret is out.

Yeah.

. Sorry, Matt

. We'll being all set on everything.

So I think like what taking a page out of his book Yeah.

Is a good idea because that's exactly what we're trying to do.

Yeah.

And it will look different for everyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So understanding what that looks like for you, your business, your podcast, and

then making a three year plan or whatever.

I don't know if you need to

make a three year plan.

I think you need to realize and think that actually you need

to be in this for three years.

I think that's probably a better way to put it.

The thing that he said, he knew he needed to be on a platform somewhere

consistently putting out content, right?

And he picked podcasting as his channel because podcasting in

terms of content gives you so much content for all the other channels.

It's like a great piece of content to create in a lot of ways because you

can use it in so many different ways.

So yeah I think as long as you're doing that, life's good.

But yeah, Align it to your business.

So I guess, you've let the cat out of the bag now.

So how do we use Podjunction to align, or how have we aligned Podjunction

Podcast to the Podjunction business?

Can you ask me that again?

Did you just zone out?

I was,

I was thinking about something else when you said that.

Sorry.

Ask me that again, cause I don't know.

How have we aligned Podjunction to the Podjunction business?

Okay.

So what we do is help people set up a podcast for their business.

So to help them use that platform as a marketing tool for their business.

So in essence, that's what we're doing with PodJunction Podcast.

We're aligning that with the offer that we have and so

running it side by side to meet.

Simultaneously, or simultaneously if you do the English

version but no, that's exactly right.

So Podjunction is all about helping businesses set up and run their own

successful podcast to grow their business.

We appreciate that process or our strategy might not be right for everybody.

But the content that we talk about on this show, in effect comes from

the stuff that we do with clients.

So yeah, it's free content, but we appreciate those people out there guys.

We love what you guys do.

Can you just help us with that?

But for those that don't want to do that, we just, we, I

think we enjoy talking about it.

And to be fair, actually, it's it's a great way for, I find this

with eCommerce podcast as well.

It's a great way for us to stay on top of our game.

Do you see what I mean?

Because we're going to interview experts and people running

podcasts and stuff in this field.

And we learn a lot, right?

From doing that.

So that helps us stay on top of the, on top of our game as well.

So yeah, Podjunction is very much aligned to our business.

I think it's probably the one podcast that is the most aligned to our business.

Whereas EP, I think there was an alignment of sorts, in the sense that I do eCommerce

coaching, consulting, we have our own eCommerce businesses, we are now Growth by

Acquisition, so we're acquiring eCommerce companies as we go along we have some

great deals in the pipeline, and so actually when we started to do the Growth

by Acquisition, we pivoted, didn't we were like, actually eCommerce Podcast needs

to be better aligned to our business.

What we're trying to do with our business.

And so at the time we just interviewed experts, right?

Which is great to grow the audience.

So if I want to now advertise on that podcast, my own services in terms of

coaching, or I want to advertise on that show the fact that we're now acquiring

businesses I can do, and I've got an audience listening to it, but actually

one of the, one of the, some of the pivots that we're going to make on that, just

to give you a heads up is we're going to.

At the moment, content comes from a single pillar is the phrase that we

use, which is expert interviews, but we're going to add two more, aren't we?

So we're going to add another pillar, which is where we interview founders

and another pillar where actually it's just me talking about eCom because

both of those pillars will better align with what we're trying to do to help

us reach the people that actually may create an eCom group with or we may

acquire, we may invest it in some way.

And so actually talking to the founders more gives us a

better opportunity to do that.

So using the same principles that we've talked about through the last however

many episodes on this show but yeah, so that's what we're doing with EP

to better align with our new business goals, there'll be some changes in

the company, different direction.

We're like let's better align EP with what we're doing.

. We're not there yet at all, ma.

Mainly it's just ideas.

. Yeah,

. Sadaf Beynon: Slowly coming to fruition.

Slowly coming to fruition.

It's a bit of a juggernaut to try and turn around.

Not turn around, but to change slightly.

But yeah, that constant belief, that constant idea that your podcast

needs to be aligned to your business and what it is you're trying to do,

tweaking things as you go along.

Super, super important.

And yeah, we're doing that with EP . So do we need to do it with Push, do you think?

Yeah.

But that's a different conversation because we're running out of time.

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, look, 25 minutes.

Very good.

Okay anything else on your notes?

No.

How about you?

I can't read them.

I make notes.

I don't know why I do it.

I think it helps sink into my brain as I'm listening.

It helps me focus on what someone's saying.

But then actually, I can't actually read my notes.

My handwriting is awful.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm really sorry.

But it is what it is.

But no, I think I really enjoyed that conversation.

That simple reminder that we seem to have ended up on align the

podcast to your business goals.

Super important.

And also the takeaway is actually if you're trying to grow your business

by appearing on other people's I loved Eagan's tips on how to do that

well, short emails, three bullet points, straight to the point,

bish, bash, bosh, jobs are good.

And you can always invite people to learn more if they want to

but definitely something to test.

It was really interesting strategy but yes, hopefully you found that helpful.

What's coming up next week?

Eagan Heath again.

Eagan Part 2.

Yes, Eagan Part 2.

What are we

talking about next week?

Do you remember?

No.

Okay.

You're gonna have to stay tuned basically to find out what it is

because we've not we don't know.

You did the interview.

I know.

When did you do the interview?

Last week?

No, it's been a few weeks.

Oh, is it?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I thought it was a recent thing.

But it'll be good.

So come back.

Yeah, definitely come back.

Make sure you like and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts

from or if you're watching on YouTube, just click the bell thing, isn't it?

Ring the bell.

Ring my bell.

Anyway, I'll stop singing because that would turn everybody off.

But yeah, make sure you like, subscribe to the show because, we've got Eagan Part 2.

You're not going to want to miss that.

But yeah, how did you, just before we close, your first introduction,

your first interview, how did you find your first interview?

I'm really curious about this.

Room for lots of improvement.

In what way?

Remembering what I need to say

would be a start and confidence.

Okay.

Yeah.

We, actually, we should do a show.

You should put this in your notes and I know this is your show.

I don't want to hijack it, but given that it's too late, yeah, I think this

is a really interesting thing because I can sit here and I can talk about

interviewing people and learning, but I do that on the back of interviewing hundreds

if not thousands of people, right?

Now I'm not trying to big myself up here because I don't think I've attained, I'm

not, this is not what I'm saying, but I think many people listening to the show

will probably be Starting out as well.

People thinking about podcasts and they go that, and I can talk about interviewing.

They go, that's great.

That's a really useful tip, Matt.

Thanks.

But you've interviewed a thousand people.

I've not interviewed one and I'm crapping myself slightly.

I think actually doing a show about what you've discovered, about doing

the first few interviews, introducing the show and all that sort of stuff,

I think will be really, people will find that really interesting.

Right.

So I've hijacked it.

Do you think that would be a good idea?

I

think it'd be a good idea.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sadaf's Journey, we'll call it the new podcast Sadaf's Journey,

look out for it on iTunes.

Awesome, okay, thank you so much for joining us ladies and gentlemen.

We'll be back next week, see you then, that's it from us, bye for now.

And that brings us to the end of today's episode at PodJunction.

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