As I have been digging deeper into copyrights and contracts, I’ve been getting a number of questions about trademarks. 

So I thought I would replay this interview with Radiance Harris, an expert in trademarks, from 2022 to answer your trademark questions!

Here are 3 key takeaways from our conversation with Radiance Harris:

• Conduct an Intellectual Property Audit: It's important to identify all your intellectual property assets, including trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets. By conducting an intellectual property audit, you can ensure proper protection and leverage your assets for maximum benefit.
• Secure Your Trademarks Early: Trademarks are crucial for brand protection and exclusivity. Radiance emphasizes the importance of securing trademark protection as soon as possible. Working with a specialized trademark attorney significantly increases the chances of success in your trademark application.
• Enforce Your Trademark Rights: Obtaining a US federal trademark registration is just the first step. As a trademark owner, it's your duty to monitor and enforce your rights. Radiance outlines various options for enforcing trademark rights, including sending cease and desist letters and pursuing legal action if necessary.

Don't miss out on this informative episode. Tune in to "Hourly to Exit" and let us know your thoughts!

More About Our Guest:

Radiance W. Harris, Esq. is an award-winning trademark attorney, bestselling author, and speaker. As the founder and managing attorney of Radiance IP Law, she helps emerging businesses protect, monetize, and grow profitable brands with trademarks. She has successfully represented startups and multinational corporations across diverse industries. Previously, she worked at one of the world’s largest law firms representing Fortune 200 brands. During her extensive career, Radiance has been widely recognized as a thought leader in the intellectual property law field. Her accolades include Maryland Rising Stars for Intellectual Property by Super Lawyers, Washington, D.C. Rising Stars for Intellectual Property by Super Lawyers, and Nation’s Best Advocates: 40 Lawyers Under 40, to name a few. She has also been featured as a legal expert in a variety of publications, including Forbes and The New York Times.

Connect with Radiance Harris:

• Website
• LinkedIn

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Hello, ladies.

Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast.

I'm your host, Erin Austin.

My goal with every episode is to share information and resources.

To help you achieve the next level of growth in your expertise-based business.

We all know generating income from our expertise.

It's pretty easy.

The challenge is in scaling and building a business that can run without you.

Join me here every week to make sure you are building an asset that can be

used to fund your goals and your legacy.

Before we get started though, one little disclaimer 'cause I'm a lawyer.

The information I share on the podcast is general in nature and is provided

for information purposes only.

It is not to be relied upon nor construed as providing legal

advice or legal opinions about any specific issue or set of facts.

Now, here we go.

Hello everyone.

Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast.

I am so pleased to have Radiance Harris with me today.

Hi

Radiance.

Hi Erin.

Thank you for having me.

That

is such a beautiful name.

Tell me the origin

of your name.

Thank you.

I mean, long story short, my parents both have R names Rhonda and Rodney,

and they wanted their firstborn child to have an R name that was a

similar feel to Faith Hoper patients.

And it looked in the dictionary.

Oh, saw the word radiance and voila.

Here I am.

Well, that's,

that's a great result.

We have all Hanes in my family, but they're not nearly

as interesting as Radiance.

Yes.

So we got Ernest, Elizabeth, another Ernest,

Edward, and Aaron.

So, We have Rhonda, Rodney, radiance, and Reve.

Oh, nice.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Everyone can share.

Share Monogram, purchase.

Right.

Awesome.

So I am so excited about this episode.

Uh, I'm gonna let you introduce yourself and then we're gonna dig in.

Okay.

Well thank you again for having me.

I am Radiance Harris.

I'm the founder and managing attorney of Radiance IP Law, and I help emerging

businesses protect, monetize, and grow profitable brands with trademarks.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Now I discovered Radiance and you know, First of all, we're kind of neighbors.

We live right across the Potomac River from each other.

Um, we haven't met yet in person, but we're gonna have to fix that very soon.

Uh, but I discovered Radiance 'cause I read about her in

some Really, it was, it was

a local magazine, I believe, where you were.

A rising star or a shooting star or a superstar or some kind of star,

that's all I know is that you are some kind of star and uh, and so I knew I

had to reach out to you immediately.

You know, I am.

Rabidly anti dabbler.

You know, I'm Provax Xer, anti dabbler, and so I love to talk to

experts, you know, in other areas of law to, you know, kind of who

really have that deep expertise so they can talk to the audience.

So this is one of those topics that.

I would really like to keep it broader.

Like sometimes I'll have someone and we'll just kind of

go into one like little niche.

But this one I think, you know, people are so interested in the topic of

trademarks and just to get a broad, you know, 3000 foot view of it, as well as

also also dig into its, um, application to the expertise based business.

So,

Start from

the top.

Can you share just generally what is intellectual property?

Mm-hmm.

What the different types are, and then specifically

what trademarks are.

Sure.

So I mean intellectual property or ip, it's a broad umbrella term that

encompasses four types or four areas.

So you've got trademarks, copyright, Trade secrets and patents, and

so trademarks protect your brand.

So your business name, brand name, product, and service names, taglines,

logos, basically anything that serves as a source identifier for your business.

Meaning a source identifier, is that when someone sees it in the

marketplace, do they automatically associate the net name, that logo.

With your particular offerings.

The second category is copyright, which protects copyright, protects content,

so any of the content you create.

Written materials, photographs, videos, artwork, music, anything that I guess

is the original expression of ideas.

Intangible form would be considered or subject to copyright protection.

Then you've got trade secrets.

Which is anything that is proprietary or meant to be kept a secret.

It could be a business formula, recipes, business and financial information.

Anything that's meant to be proprietary or kept a secret

would be subject to trade secrets.

And then you've got patents which protect inventions.

So if you're creating any in inventive inventions, Then you would be seeking

patent protection for that one question.

What brought, when you mentioned the in tangible form and

people ask questions about software, is that considered tangible form?

Yes.

Yeah, for, I mean, you could protect, I.

Depending on the software, it could be subject to patent protection,

depending on the software, it could be, uh, subject to copyright.

So you can copyright like the software coding, you can, um, copyright like sort

of like the look and feel, the look, not the feel, the look of the software.

Um, you can protect from the trademark perspective.

The name of the software would be were be subject to trademark protection.

So there's absolutely, there's multiple intellectual properties within software.

I would say yeah, absolutely.

So I hear a lot that people wanna trademark, like

everything, and, and obviously you've mentioned a lot of categories that

are eligible for trademark protection, but at what point in the business I.

Do they really need to start seriously thinking about trademark from the

moment they think of an a business name or a service name, or product name,

or is there some kind of inflection point where they really need to get

serious about?

I think you should protect your trademarks prior to use or adoption and, and that's

important, particularly if you're, Really serious about your business,

and this is more than just a hobby.

Um, it's definitely important to pursue trademark protection before

you actually start using or adopting it, or at least at the very beginning.

Uh, the reason why it's so important to do that is because one, I.

You wanna make sure that you're not committing a trademark infringement.

So a lot of people just kind of conjure up this name in their head

and they're like, ah, I love that.

And they just start plastering it over everywhere with not, without understanding

that there are legal implications to doing that, uh, serious legal implications.

And so that's one of the reasons.

And then secondly, um, it gives you that, that peace of mind as you're

growing your business that you.

Now we'll have, you know, exclusively your ownership in the name, because that's the

thing, when you don't have that trademark protection in the, your business name,

like you don't have any rights, you don't, you're not able to prevent competitors

from using a similar name as yours or selling competing products or services.

So there's a lot of legal importance to securing a trademark

prior to use and adoption.

So I would do, I would say doing it sooner rather than later is the way to go.

And how much time do they have before they start using it?

There's a, like, isn't there a time period that they have to start using it if they

do it?

So there are two ways you can file trademark applications.

You can file based on current use.

So meaning you've already been using it and you can show evidence

that you've been using it as such.

And then you can also file based on an intent to use.

So with intent to use applications, you can follow those applications.

Before you started using it.

So at this point it could just be an idea like, I know I'm gonna use this

name, I know that the users are the products and services that I'm offering.

I wanna make sure that I have this name on lock.

So then you file the intent to use.

And with those applications you have essentially up to like three, three

and a half years, um, in some cases to.

Start using the trademark before it will eventually, you know, go abandoned.

But assuming you're planning on launching something within the next 24 to 36

months, you could definitely start with an intent to use trademark application.

Are they

different processes and different

costs?

Similar process.

The only difference is that you file your evidence of trademark

use when you file your application with the use base applications.

Whereas with the intent to use, there's an additional step right before your

registered where the U S P T O wants to see evidence of trademark use.

So that's when you have to submit a.

Statement of use, and that's where you would give them, okay, here's the date

we first started using the mark, and here's the evidence that we're using

the trademark as we've applied for it.

And with that additional step, there are additional filing fees.

But other than that, it's the same process.

Okay.

So the intent to use basically like.

Put your flag, you know, staking the ground,

flagging around, stake your gun.

Yeah, stake your claim, like, I'm using this name for this.

And so it establishes priority as of the filing date.

So while you're getting your business affairs in order, you know, okay,

I've got this name on lock now.

If you decide to get your business affairs in order before doing it, and

then later find out that someone else.

Has either filed before you, you know, has filed before you,

then you're kind of out of luck.

So there is a lot of benefit to doing an intent to use, especially if you know that

you're going to launch within a certain amount of time and you're confident that

that's gonna be the, the name or the, you know, tagline that you want to use.

And then the products and services as well.

Got it.

So, you know, along with, you know, doctors having problems with Dr.

Google,

lawyers have problems with Google University, as you call it.

Yep.

I was

just talking to someone the other day who had tried to

get, Trademark protection for her business name and it was rejected.

And I asked her, did you use a lawyer?

And she said, no.

But she watched some videos and she on YouTube, everything on something.

Yes.

She read everything on the, uh, on the trademark office, the site.

So tell us the benefits of using a

lawyer.

I mean, a lawyer will increase your chance of success like substantially.

Um, I think it's like 60 or 70%.

Increase in success with an attorney.

Um, and one thing's for sure.

So, increasingly, I'd say over the last two years, the U S P T O has been

coming, agre increasingly aggressive and in initiating initial refusals.

So about 70% of trademark applications that are filed

will receive an initial refusal.

Be an office action.

So as an attorney, when you're hiring an attorney, a good trademark attorney,

not just somebody who's pretending they do trademarks or happen, happen

to do it on the side, but someone who specializes in trademark law will be

able to do like a preliminary or full trademark search to make sure, uh,

that there are, you know, no challenges or potential refusals that will come.

Or if there are some, they can help develop a strategy about

how to either avoid them or get around them should they arise.

So that's one they'll help, you know, minimize the risk

of objection or refusals.

Two, they'll help you, um, correctly identify I.

What categories to file the trademark application in.

I know too many people who do the legal zoom and do the di, the d i y, and they

incorrectly for whatever reason, choose the wrong class or the wrong descriptions

of products and services that does, doesn't actually cover what they're doing.

And so a trademark that doesn't reflect what you're actually offering in

the marketplace is no good for you.

And so a trademark, um, attorney can help with that, can help with the strategy.

And just handle the whole, all of the nuances, the minutia of the

lengthy 12 to 14 month process.

It's a long process.

And so a trademark attorney can handle that for you while you're able to

like focus on making money, building your business, things of that nature,

versus trying to learn trademark law.

Right.

Exactly.

So if you have been rejected.

Like, can you fix that?

There are some that we can fix.

There are some that we can argue around and fix.

It is better though, to, again, if, if we were hired at the beginning, we

would, we were anticipating that this is gonna happen, and so we had a strategy.

Sometimes it's hard to fix.

Once it's happened, because now we're cleaning up a big mess.

So there are some times where we're able to fix it and other times where

we're not, where we have to tell them, uh, no, we got to refile this.

This is like, if you had hired an attorney, you would've seen

that this would've been, you know, rejected kind of thing.

So I would say it depends on the situation.

But it's always best to do it right from the beginning.

'cause sometimes it can't be fixed.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I, you mentioned classes and making sure you're, uh,

categorizing in the right class.

Tell us about what that is

and why that's important.

Right.

So there, I guess for the person who wants to learn more about how

to find trademark classes, there's a trademark ID manual on the U S P T

O website where it's like, Approved descriptions of goods and services.

So like if you have a mobile app or if you have a book series or, or anything,

or you're doing, um, you know, courses, you go into the manual and you're, you're

basically, it helps you identify approved descriptions that will be approved.

Um, and so that's the best way to do go about it.

But you wanna make sure that your trademark application.

Reflects what you were doing.

'cause there's been some that say, you know, they go and they file, for

example, clothing and apparel, like they file for clothing and apparel.

And it's like, I'm like, why did you file for that?

Are you, are you trying to sell a clothing line?

They're like, oh no, we're just selling promotional t-shirts.

Like my, my business is Radiance IP law and I just give away,

you know, promotional shorts of Radiance IP law on the front.

Well, you wouldn't, you wouldn't secure a trademark for that because

it's not a clothing brand, you're just using it for promotional purposes.

So there are certain things that are not actually, I guess, noticeable or to

the lay person, like as what constitutes trademark use or what you would file for.

But the trademark ID manual at least helps with coming up with approved descriptions,

but you still have to make sure that the application reflects what you're doing.

I would love to hear like the craziest story you have about

trademarks, but, but first, when, when they're thinking about their

names and you're helping them work through, okay, this is too generic.

I know there's different levels of protection, like even if you

get a registration that there's different levels of protection.

Am I right there?

Can you

talk us through that?

Yeah, sure.

So not all trademarks are created equal.

There are some trademarks that are stronger than others.

So like, you know, the trademarks when you think about in the marketplace

like Exxon, Google, Kleenex, Adidas.

Ikea where they're consisting of invented words that don't

exist in the English dictionary.

Those are the best and the strongest and inherently distinctive trademarks.

So if you come up with a name that's like invented, that's not

in the dictionary, like those are the best trademarks because one.

It's very distinctive.

So though likely you won't have any issues with like, you know, likelihood

of confusion, refusal, which is like likelihood of confusion is the

standard for trademark infringement.

Your chances of that happening are lower because you invented the word.

So then the next level underneath that are when you use words in the

English dictionary, but apply it to.

Something completely unrelated.

So think of like apple for computers, camel for cigarettes.

Again, completely unrelated.

Those are also good trademarks.

They're distinctive because they're unrelated.

Now as you go down, now you're getting closer to like suggestive or also good

trademarks, but it's, you're, you're on the fence of it almost being descriptive.

So when your name is really descriptive, So meaning it it, the name describes the

nature of the product's, nature, feature, or characteristic of the products and

services that you are offering, then, then it is descriptive and descriptive.

Names are difficult to trademark unless you can show basically that

you've acquired descriptiveness.

So what does that mean?

Acquire distinctiveness means that you've used that descriptive name

exclusively and continuously in commerce for at least five years.

So much so that it's become distinctive or unique for your products and services.

Only then can you then secure trademark protection for that.

But as you see, it's a process.

Have you ever seen that

happen in real life?

Oh yeah.

We've, I've been clients all the time.

We're like, oh, I've been offering this name for five

years, and I'm like, oh, perfect.

We can, we can do acquired distinctiveness.

And so when you, once you can do the acquired distinctiveness, you

can't receive a descriptiveness.

Rejection.

Now, if it's generic meaning like, you know, it's a generic, completely generic

term for that, then no, you can't, generic names cannot be trademarked at all.

But if it's descriptive and you've been using it exclusively and continuously

for at least five years, then yeah, you can, you can, um, or just been

used very, um, aggressively in the marketplace and you can definitely.

Claim acquired distinctiveness to get trademark rights, but

again, it, it's a process.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas you Yeah.

I think of the

person who was just telling me she was rejected and I think

she might fall into that letter Yeah.

With a description.

And, and she wouldn't have known, and she might not, she may have

been in business for 10 years and not know that, oh, I could have

claimed acquired distinctiveness.

You know, that's something that a trademark attorney would be

able to advise on or help with.

Right

now, one of the things I uh, see a lot is someone using a foreign,

like a translation, a foreign translation as trying to get a trademark on that.

How, how do they like that?

Well, there's a doctrine of foreign equivalents.

I know this is sounding very legalese, but that's what it's called, where

when you're applying for a trademark, for a word that's being translated,

an English word, they're gonna translate it to the English word.

So like, you know what I, I can't even think of a translation, but

in any event, if it's a foreign word, they're going, when they're

doing the trademark search, they're gonna see if there's an equivalent.

To it in the English language.

And so when they're doing the trademark search for like, welcome, so if

you're using a foreign word for the word welcome, the trademark search

is gonna be for the word welcome.

Like that, like a trademark attorney would research the foreign

equivalent to make sure that there's no trademark infringement there.

And so that's something to think that you, you can't get around a refusal by

changing it to a foreign word if that word is already protected in English.

For the products and services that you're, that are of interest.

Got it.

Okay.

All

right, so let's flip to the, you have your trademark

registration and somebody else.

Well, there's two things.

One is if you're on the receiving end of a cease and desist.

Okay.

Or if you have, um, a mark and you find someone else is

infringing it.

Okay, so if you're on the receiving end of the cease and desist, assuming

you haven't, you haven't secured any US Federal trademark rights.

Okay?

So if you're on the receiving end and it's valid claim, meaning you're a

junior user, they're likely, and when you're receiving a nasty gram, as I like

to call it, they're usually gonna ask you to cease any all use immediately.

They're gonna ask you to then, in which case, you're gonna to stop any all use.

That means stopping in in in any regards, taking it down, and then you're gonna

have to come up with something else.

You're gonna have to come up with a totally new name.

Um, hopefully, I mean, it could always escalate if you decide

to fight and fight it all.

It could escalate to litigation, but that just would not be a smart thing to do.

Um, in this case, a lot of actual trademark infringement cases end up being

settled, but they go years and years.

So imagine how much legal feature it, it's a mess.

It's a mess.

I could say there's no, the only,

the lawyers win.

It's a hot mess.

So it's like, it's so much easier to just hit the trademark early and do it right,

like, You're, you're spending like three grand or something to get the trademark

done versus all this money on legal fees.

And then to do the rebrand is so much more expensive to you.

So it's, it's important to do it right now.

On the other hand, if you have US Federal trademark registration

and you find out that someone started using the mark after you.

And you send, and then you know you can enforce your rights against them.

So you can send them a nasty gram.

You can prevent them from use.

But it's important to know that once you're a trademark owner, the

duty is on you as the trademark owner, owner to enforce your rights.

So if you don't enforce your rights, there are other people out there who

could start using it and will continue to use it unless you enforce your right.

So it's not automatic.

Like, yes, getting a US Federal trademark registration.

Will block someone, could block someone from securing a registration

with A U S P T O in some cases.

'cause sometimes.

There's strategies where people do these workarounds and allows 'em to slide in.

So, but granted, it would prevent someone from getting a registration,

but you have to stop them from actually using it in the marketplace.

So you would send them a cease and desist letter, and then you'd have the,

the option to actually sue them too.

And you could get like trouble damages, you can get attorney's fees.

There's all of these different remedies that you could have as a, uh,

holder of a trademark registration.

And, uh, you know, what happens if, and I don't know this

is the case or not, but if there's two different classes, but they're

very close, like, let's say like

business something

and software, something, like they're kind of similar and somehow you're

trying to get, you know, but two different companies, like, does the trademark

office catch that or does that happen

bleed

into the other

or.

It.

It depends.

So like, so generally speaking, so like I mentioned before, like the

standard for trademark infringement is likelihood of confusion.

So it's looking at whether if someone saw two competing marks in the marketplace

that were either identical or similar.

Would they think it's the same business?

Are they affiliated by each other?

Are they endorsed or is there kind some kind of relationship with them?

So, um, a good example of, of what's not, uh, trademark infringement

is like you have for example, like Pando, Pandora for like jewelry.

You've got like Pandora for like music services.

You've got Dove for Chocolate, you've got Dove for Soap.

Mm-hmm.

Even though those are identical trademarks.

They're covering completely unrelated products and services.

So in those regards, like, you know, there's kind of, kind of

a pass you can get, get over it.

Mm-hmm.

There is an exception, however, for famous Marks.

Famous marks have like, I'd say trademark superpowers.

So like famous marks like McDonald's or like Alexis or Coca-Cola, like you can't

pop up with like, Coca-Cola Candy or Coca-Cola shoes, like you will get you,

you know, there are issues with that.

There's trademark there, you know, dilution issues and all of that.

So typically it's important to stay away completely from famous brands.

Um, with that being said, Uh, when you're looking at whether something's

infringing, the marks don't have to be identical for it to be infringement.

They can be similar and neither do the products and services.

If they're related or similar, it could constitute trademark infringement.

So that's something to keep in mind when you're adopting a name and

looking at what's already out there.

Asking yourself, am I committing trademark infringement here?

Mm-hmm.

So then how soon in the process, 'cause most people are out there

thinking about things, they don't have lawyers on speed dial and um, you know,

they're listening to this right now, like, Like, do they call you immediately,

like when they're in the ideation phase or like when do, when do they call you?

I think it's best to call me when you are in the idea phase, but

you know, you wanna execute that idea.

Mm-hmm.

Um, those are the best ones I love to work with because of the fact that they

are starting early, so they're getting their ducks in a row, if you will.

So here's what I wanna do, and then we're able to come up with a legal action plan.

To like, here are the things you need to think about.

You need to do it at this step in the process, versus them

getting it up and running.

It's already out there and launched and they, they skipped all of

these other important steps.

And then you realize, oh, I can't use this name now.

Or, oh, you know?

And it's like, well, if we would've did this earlier, we would've discovered it.

And then I always tell people like, do not share your ideas and concepts with.

Anyone like just anyone because ideas and concepts are not protectable.

There's no protection whatsoever.

So when you're like, he, he stole my idea, or she stole my idea.

Well, I mean, again, I.

It's not protectable intellectual property protection.

Six.

Once that idea develops into something, so that idea develops into a, a business

name or that idea develops into, um, a new invention, or it develops into a, a

written book, that's when inte it becomes eligible for intellectual property.

So once it's an idea, I would say keep your ideas to yourself or only share

with people that you trust, because otherwise they're up for grabs until.

Intellectual property protection attaches to it.

Right.

So while you're bringing me to the expertise-based business,

that's our audience is founders of service-based businesses that are based

on their expertise, how do trademarks apply to that type of business?

Right.

So we work, I mean, with my business, we work with all just

about all service providers.

Um, they have all service providers have a ton of intellectual property.

If you think about it, you most likely have trademarks because

you have a business name.

There might be products and services that you offer that are your bread and butter.

So you wanna trademark those names.

You have logos.

Then you've got copyright because it's service based.

You're something that you're drafting up, sharing.

Maybe you're doing videos, maybe you have training programs, um, books.

Those are all subject to copyright.

And I'm sure you have trade secrets as well.

Like what is helping you that, that, I guess, your secret

sauce that helps you stand out.

From, from your competitors.

So in all of those cases, like you have intellectual property, so

it's important to identify that.

So identify that by doing an intellectual property audit.

It's essentially like a dump, and just thinking about like all the things

that you have and what have you created and how can you really leverage it.

So in order to leverage that intellectual property, you have to protect it first.

So like identifying it as the first step, then protecting it to ensure

that it's actually legally yours.

And that the world knows it's legally yours.

You might know it's yours, but does everybody else know it?

And then thirdly, leveraging it.

How can you monetize it?

How can you, you know, really generate money from this?

And so that's, I think it's really important to, to do

it in those three stats.

But service-based businesses absolutely have intellectual property in a ton of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It, it is surprising to me as I talk to people about that where, you know,

a lot of service-based businesses are selling their time and they're not

really thinking about creating assets in their business and including mm-hmm.

Of course, intellectual property.

So it, it is, it's, we keep talking about, we'll continue to talk about it and make

sure that we are capturing all the value that we're creating with our expertise.

Right.

So any trends that you're seeing in trademarks?

I mean, you did mention that.

I, I will say sometimes I go and, you know, I'll do a search, uh, and

I'll see someone who got a trademark that I'm like, how the heck did they

get a, you know, protection in this?

So, I guess, you know, it is getting harder, but what,

what trends are we seeing

in trademarks now?

I mean, recent, over the last year, a lot more applications for NFTs

and metaverse type trademarks.

There's a big push towards.

Virtual services and virtual products.

Um, so there's been a real increase in those areas, I would say.

And just in general, overall there's just been, since the pandemic, like record

breaking numbers in terms of trademark filings each year it keeps increasing

so much so that there keeps being delays with the US Patent and Trademark office.

'cause it's hard for them to keep up with the demands.

So definitely businesses large and small out there are filing trademarks.

So is that because they're more businesses or more people

are aware of the need to trademark

or both?

I think it's probably both.

Um, but I definitely think that with the pandemic and people realizing that

they can't rely on this one stream of income, and so they're either coming

up with side hustles or they're taking those side hustles full time, and so

they're really wanting to legitimize their business because a lot of.

Clients say that?

Yeah.

When I got that trademark, I really started to take my business more seriously

because, you know, now it's like a legit, I legitly own this, like that l l c,

that you have, that domain name that you got, that social media handles don't

mean anything in terms of establishing legal ownership over your business.

And, and so getting that trademark is really what does it for a lot of people.

And so I think that's what it was, is that.

People were really starting to take their businesses seriously and or

starting a new business altogether.

You know, mentioning that, it reminds me of a post that

you did recently about a development that the trademark office isn't doing.

I.

Is gonna stop doing the, uh, physical paper

certificates.

Yeah.

And, 'cause I remember, you know, I'm a, I'm fairly new to Instagram, but

whatever reasons Instagram served me up some, uh, trademark lawyers where

they would show like the, the whole

Radiance Harris: celebration with the gift.

Right.

People get their certificate

and it, it was very meaningful.

People, you know, were Right.

Very, very emotional

about that, so.

Oh yes, absolutely.

And I mean, you can still order them.

But it's not the same as like, you know, just automatically issued.

You know, I think a lot of places are just becoming more digital now.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it's just kind of the wave of the future Now they're like,

let's, let's save some trees.

Yeah.

Um, you know,

I'm with that.

I can, it's hard to

argue with that.

That

is fantastic.

So this is the Hourly to Exit podcast.

You know, we talk about that journey from that hourly unsustainable business

to one that is scalable and saleable.

That includes, you know, having some exclusive assets like IP in your

business and having a strong market position like a brand and, uh, and then

having some independence from an owner.

So where do trademarks fit in?

To

this landscape.

So where do trademarks fit in?

So, I mean, it fits in different ways.

So it's important for you to then have the option to do any of those things,

whether it's you decide to start licensing or something, or you, you

wanna sell your business or whatever it is, you have to have legal ownership of

the asset that you're selling, right?

So having the trademark in the name ensures that you are the

exclusive rights owner in that name.

So that gives you the option to be able to do various things when that time comes,

when you don't secure those trademarks at the, you know, early on in the process.

Don't necessarily, you may or may not have that option to do those things.

Um, and so that's why it's so important because, um, when you don't secure

US Federal trademark, you have what's called common law trademark

rights, which are only based on where you are headquartered locally.

So a lot of times service-based businesses are helping clients across state lines.

Sometimes even internationally as well.

Um, and then even with social media and websites and all of that, people can

see you have a big digital footprint.

Mm-hmm.

And so when you only have common law trademark rights, and you're

headquartered in Maryland, then you're vulnerable to someone

misappropriating your name using it.

Starting a competing business in a neighboring state, like in

Virginia or DC or something, and you wouldn't have any legal recourse.

And so the importance of a trademark is to ensure that you have legal ownership,

that you minimize any legal conflicts or disputes that arise later in the process,

and so that you're able to license or sell or anything free and clear of any kind of

conflicts or legal issues attached to it.

That's the best thing.

Yeah, I was gonna say

like, what, what you raised a great point, especially at this time

in, in history where people may have been doing local business, you know,

they went to an office every day, right.

Uh, I don't know why, but they do.

Right.

And uh, and that maybe they've transitioned to an online, I know

several people who have, you know, transitioned to an online presence and

they're now helping people across the country where they were not before.

Correct.

And that's a major shift.

And so now we're talking about.

Federal protections instead of just protections.

Yeah, so great point.

All right, so this is a very meta podcast.

You know, I'm a female founder of an expertise based business that I hope to

build to sell someday, and you are the founder of an expertise based business.

So are you about building your business to perhaps sell it someday?

Um, I don't know.

Uh, that hasn't really, I don't think so, to be honest.

I'm not, I don't think I'm building it to sell it, and not to say it's not a

possibility, but for me it's more of like building a legacy while I'm here.

You know, once I'm gone.

It doesn't have to be here anymore, to be honest.

It's just about like, you know, making my mark right now as I'm living.

And people will remember Radiance IP law, but it doesn't have to actually continue.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, once I'm gone, I don't, I don't expect my son to carry on

the Radiance IP law, but who knows?

That's where I feel now.

I mean, I'm, I've been in business seven years.

Maybe you ask me in, in maybe five to seven years, maybe it's a different

perspective, but for me it's just about, you know, Scrolling and scaling to.

Be able to employ people, be able to live the lifestyle that I want.

Mm-hmm.

Um, things like that.

Yeah.

Well, I agree.

The legacy is what we do every day.

It's not something that we do later or after or Yeah.

It's what we do every day.

The decisions that we make and just, I like to mention you

are a young woman and that.

There may be a time that you just want another challenge.

It's not Yeah.

You know, and it would be nice to have an asset that you could

sell.

Correct.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So that's the, absolutely.

Yeah.

So, uh, just to wrap up.

Where can people find you?

You can of course check out our website,

which is www.radianceiplaw.com.

You can also, um, follow me on Instagram at Radiance Harris sq.

Connect with me on LinkedIn.

Uh, I'm Radiance Harris on LinkedIn.

Those are the primary three places where you can find me.

Fantastic.

Well, this has been a delight.

So much great information.

Thank you so much for sharing it with us today and uh, yeah, and we're gonna

make sure we meet in person very soon.

Yes,

let's do it.

Thank you for having me again.

Thank you, radiance.

Thanks for listening.

Do not forget to check out the show notes for links to connect with today's

guest and for the resources, offers and organizations that we discussed.

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