Shownotes
We had a lively exchange of views in this podcast on how we should play the game of relationships.
We talked about the two main ways of viewing the games of relationships.
Then we got into the detailed games people sometimes play in relationships. For example, should you 'treat them mean to keep them keen?'
The Relationship Landscape. All this and more wisdom from;
The Scouse Guru
Heroic Erel
The Diplomat
and many more we haven't renamed yet!
Transcript
Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight's meetup is about playing the game of relationships, I've got my game of Game of Thrones mug here. So first thing I think we can discuss in the breakout rooms, if you discuss. When I couldn't so I'm going to talk about our relationship has been, again, lasting again tonight. And what's your reaction, what's your feeling about that and what's your view?
It is often. Often this. Well. Often these people have a reaction to sometimes being called again. Okay, so we're going to split and see breakout rooms differently.
I'm sorry I didn't tell you.
You said to go to the breaking room.
Yes, a breakout room. Let me see if I can. To the breakout room. Did you get a link to click?
But I left it. But what what to do in this briefing room.
OK, so the breakout rooms for more private conversations. So you're going to discuss the topic in smaller groups.
Mm hmm. Yeah. OK, and then. I just want to come back to. Yeah, OK. And then we're going to come back into the main room, where will we discuss to discuss anything anyone wants to talk about that came across in the breakout rooms and then we'll have a more general discussion.
OK, again, I be.
Joining us, OK? Hi, Robbie. I was just actually replying to your message. Yeah, I found I found it was in the meetup calendar.
OK, yeah. Sometimes people people done is kind of buried in. Okay, so what we did tonight, as you saw, was playing the game of relationships. So how it works is we have while people are joining this, others, you don't have a breakout group, breakout rooms. So the smaller groups where you can have private discussion. So I'll send you a link to see join one of those groups and then we're going to come back here and have a big general discussion about what they're discussing in the groups is the question is in terms of what I'm talking about tonight, relationships being a gang, life being a game.
What's your reaction to that? Do you agree with it or disagree with it? How do you feel about that and say that clear enough? Yeah, makes perfect sense. Yeah.
OK, all right. So going to actually to your breakout room two. So if you just. You should get a link oh. Sorry, Rabbi, I jumped off the bed quickly, but I think we're halfway through it being something I know now, if you just joined the just join the group and.
Yeah, yeah. Then you yeah. There probably been more discussion. We just joined and then when there's a chance just joining. Yeah, that's fine. Now, we're sorry about that. No problem, can you get it? Uh, yeah, but you can. You can. Everyone stay in their discussions. I'm sorry. That's OK. That's really good. You know what? I love the game of Blic and how to play well.
I listen to a podcast called The Reality Revolution. Brian Scott, I know ever is is it's amazing. It's a really good podcast. Kathleen has everyone back. OK, so did anyone have any interest in discussions, any interesting forced? Joshed. This is Sheila and Sheila. Hi. I think most of us, if not all of us, agreed that to use the term game doesn't sit well with us in terms of relationship. Personally speaking, I can see the concept of a game and I can see there are similarities in terms of rules.
Players in quote marks. Again, the word players doesn't sit right with me in terms of relationship. But I guess, you know, again, concept of being winners and losers. But again, that's whether you're playing as a team, as a couple together or playing as individuals, therefore being a winner and loser. But I think, in fact, I believe that, you know, you don't necessarily know all the rules going in. If you're in a relationship, you you have to, like, find out the rules as you go along.
And everybody has different rules. Thank you for that. OK, I heard you say something, it's just I am beginning to feel more like the you know, it's not the dating stage that's just like a game because you don't know at that stage what you're getting yourself into. But once you're in a committed relationship, I think it's more if it was a team thing rather than two people competing against each other. OK, yes. Anyone else? Is that the general feeling in our group as well?
We sort of put forward a slightly different angle to it and by saying if there was any positive.
So if there were any positives to come out of the game situation, then you could say that you're entering into a win win game rather than a win lose game. And by default, there will be rules. And those rules could be authenticity, openness, communication, trust, the basic fundamental things for a relationship. And if as long as everybody's aware of them, then you could both be winners of that game. And I guess if one person is not fulfilling their part of the bargain on that, then the game might not be successful, I guess.
And Armytage, about I wasn't sure if you can talk or. So you mean it's. I was going to say I do agree with it being a game, but not in the sense of like your playing and your being conniving. I do think life is a game and you've got to play your cards right. And in a relationship, you need to go into it knowing who you are and what you want out of that. And you need to set your standards, your values, and the person needs to know what is expected of them.
Coming in from the start, so I think the yeah, I do agree with it being a game. OK, I you. So I'm going to the reason I set this as a thing is it's similar to we were talking and I was talking with, I think a couple of a couple of weeks ago about you remember we were discussing about love as a currency and you had a strong reaction to that. And there's a subtlety to to both of these ideas that really underpin a lot of the problems that people have in relationships.
So, for example, when I was talking about love being a currency, it wasn't because obviously meaning it was actually because what I'm saying is, of all the currencies is the one that we that we value the least in terms of our giving our attention, I refer to it. So. Okay. So I want to put some more detail, too, to the concept of life and relationships being a game. And the best way I know how to do that is from there is a book from James class and he talked about finite and infinite times.
And so finite game is a game that we're used to. I'm just going to mute everyone so that there is no background reaction. That's. Mean yourself if you have something to say, so. Okay, so there are finite and infinite times, so finite game is what we're familiar with in terms of it has agreed laws. It's a game like football. It's a game like tennis or any of those kind of games that we used to it. It's got agreed.
And this is what some of you picked up on, is that it's got agreed upon rules, but they're imposed rules. So there is and by definition, there's a limitation and there's a winner and a loser. So if we look at so in America, they've got the elections going on and the election is a finite game. They can only be a winner and that can only be a loser. And there's a time when it's over. And so.
In the final game that we have, like titles like if whatever row you have, if you if you play the game of law and you qualify as a lawyer, you're a lawyer. And that doesn't change. And so.
And today's winners and losers and the fight to win is fierce, fighting for control. So the infinite game is a game that doesn't end. So it's a game without boundaries, it's a game that we define by ourselves, and it's a game that deepens over time. So if you have someone who's an artist who loves art. There is an infinite game because you can always get better. There's people who might win this prize or whatever, you know, kind of you think of an art prize, but, you know, like people win the Pulitzer Prize for writing.
But it doesn't mean that they're forever they forever won the game. It means at that moment in time, they were at the top. But it's going to change. And, you know, music is again, is an infinite game. We have the charts and someone's at the top, but no one is at the top always. And so it isn't so much about winners and losers, but it's how can I play the game and get better?
So. Dieting is often spoken about as being a has been again, because it's the diet. And if you look at the way that people treat the dating game, it's players. It's people who feel that they're won by if they can sleep with a girl, if they can get the most attention, if they can do all of those things, they're playing a finite game.
And and, yeah, of course, and there are relationships where someone of want to be in control and they will see themselves as winning by getting their way, but they're playing it with a finite game. And if you look at a lot of the relationship advice, it's technique to send this text. It's say they do this thing so that you get a certain result and that's playing a finite game, whereas an infinite game is about deepening the connection, deepening the conversation.
It's about it's not about winning or dominating, but it's about developing the connection. It's about exploring rather than than winning, it's about dealing with what's now rather than let you win, and therefore you're always a winner. So one of the problems is that. In work, in business and things, people play and play a finite game, so someone who seems like someone who sees business as a as a finite game is how much money can you win?
And. So they're driven to be like destroy the competition, but actually no one ever wins. You know, when you look at those charts of Jeff Bridges is the richest man Bill Gates was for a long time, but no one's ever won because it's never over. There's no there's no finish point. And so a lot of the problems that people have are someone feels like that that wasn't proud of them, they felt like they were a loser at school, that they have this.
Insecurity, and so they have this drive to prove themselves, they have they feel like they need to have more and more success. To get away from the feeling of cost. But the label comes from the past, and so the feeling is from the past and no amount of success that you have now is ever going to change that feeling that you had back then. So when people. Play. A finite game. Like rejection in indicting warm relationships is all consuming, and so one of the reasons people are so devastated that a break up is because it feels good, because that they've got a finite game attitude to it, like this person's gone.
Therefore, I've lost. I'm never going to have that back. And if you treat it so when I'm saying about playing the game of relationships, what I'm talking about is that. If you ever. Wants to love and be loved, then you're playing the game of relationships, it's whether you know it or not. But you're actually. You're in the game. It's an infinite game. It's not like there's winners or losers, but it's different places.
And. So relationships are an infinite game. So there's never an end to it and it doesn't matter what state you are, because there's this whole I'm going to show you later about the landscape of relationships, but wherever you are is a place in the game of relationships.
And it's about if you don't like where you are, it's about moving to a different place. So the idea of playing the game of relationships is. That you're conscious of how you're doing it, because when you're conscious of how you're doing it, then that means that being in that relationship, it means you're not playing passive aggressive or not playing victim and and control. You're not playing the power games that people play, the drama games that people play.
But you're you're like bringing it to awareness. And so it's about doing relationships more consciously.
Bellamy Riley, if I've got your name right, you've got your hand up. Did you want to talk?
Yep. So you were talking about, like, proving someone wrong.
So when something happens, like when someone says that I cannot do something, so our tendency is to like, prove someone wrong. So if you tell me, like, I cannot, like, do some kind of heart, I cannot win a particular game, then it's very common for us to prove someone wrong. So it's been in our genes. So how would you actually like differentiated and how do you recognize when you are playing like a finite game on infinite game?
Okay, so if you're driven by an insecurity, which is to prove someone wrong. To accept the label that you're a loser or you've lost or you're a failure means that you've said that the game is over. Because if if the game is still playing, then you kind of lost. Does that make sense? Yep, yep, so it's it's it's when we put it into a full context, it's when we haven't really looked at or been conscious of what we're doing or how we're playing it.
And so...