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Finding Innovation and Entrepreneurship in the Medical Field with Jared Greer and Spencer Jones
Episode 22212th April 2023 • Be EPIC Podcast • Brent Williams
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This week on the podcast, Matt sits down with Jared Greer and Spencer Jones to discuss their entrepreneurial ventures in the medical space at Lapovations, Jared is the Co-Founder and CEO and Spencer is the Chief Technology Officer and VP of Sales at Lapovations. They begin with the story of how Lapovations came to be with a problem that needed to be solved for surgeons who perform laparoscopic procedures. Spencer also touches on his solution that he created at his previous company for IVs that led him into the healthcare entrepreneur space after working as a nurse. They then discuss how the Walton College, University of Arkansas and local entrepreneurial support organizations has impacted their company with a focus on customer discovery, validation of your product and pivoting to meet what your customer needs. Learn more about Lapovations: https://lapovations.com/

Transcripts

Spencer Jones:

If you're trying to be better at sales in general

Spencer Jones:

but also medical sales, really investing in being a people

Spencer Jones:

person and you know building relationships because your

Spencer Jones:

relationship capital in most businesses, but especially sales

Spencer Jones:

is paramount.

Matt Waller:

Excellence, professionalism, innovation and

Matt Waller:

collegiality. These are the values the Sam M. Walton College

Matt Waller:

of Business explores in education, business and the

Matt Waller:

lives of people we meet every day, I'm Matt Waller, Dean of

Matt Waller:

the Walton College and welcome to the be epic podcast. I have

Matt Waller:

with me today, Jared Greer and Spencer Jones. Jared is a

Matt Waller:

successful entrepreneur with over 20 years of medical sales

Matt Waller:

experience. He's the co-founder and CEO of Lapovations, which

Matt Waller:

we're going to be talking about today, which is really

Matt Waller:

interesting. He has studied engineering. He also has a MBA

Matt Waller:

from from the Walton College. He's been very engaged in

Matt Waller:

entrepreneurship with the Walton College for many years. Spencer

Matt Waller:

Jones is a clinical innovator with broad medical devices

Matt Waller:

experience. And I actually did a recording a video interview with

Matt Waller:

him about five years ago, about his business. Lineus medical,

Matt Waller:

which was really interesting. It was particularly interesting for

Matt Waller:

me at the time, because I had spent quite a bit of time in the

Matt Waller:

hospital with IVs hooked up to me, and he told me about this

Matt Waller:

invention he had that allowed for easier access to IV lines

Matt Waller:

and IV line management. So, but, but now he is the chief

Matt Waller:

technology or technology officer and VP of sales at Lapovations

Matt Waller:

and you've been there for a couple years now. Is that right?

Spencer Jones:

That's right. And I was part time consultant for

Spencer Jones:

about two years and then have come come on board full time

Spencer Jones:

just this month.

Matt Waller:

Okay, that's great. Jared, I want to start with you.

Matt Waller:

And of course, as I mentioned in the introduction, you have lots

Matt Waller:

of experience. You worked for Pfizer for almost nine years, as

Matt Waller:

a help in sales, I believe. You were owner of Northwest Arkansas

Matt Waller:

TCBY, why for several years, makes me hungry, just thinking

Matt Waller:

about that. I'm ready for some ice cream. And you were in sales

Matt Waller:

for Medtronics for about 10 years. And you started

Matt Waller:

Lapovations back over six years ago. Would you tell us and of

Matt Waller:

course, I've followed both of your companies carefully for

Matt Waller:

many years, and it's so fun to see these kinds of successes.

Matt Waller:

It's really amazing. But I know it's been very difficult and

Matt Waller:

challenging. So first of all, you know, Jared, how did you

Matt Waller:

come up with the idea for Lapovations?

Jared Greer:

Well Matt, to start with, I would just like to say

Jared Greer:

thank you for taking time to speak with Spencer and I today

Jared Greer:

about Lapovations and what we've done. You know, I listened to

Jared Greer:

your, your podcast frequently. And it's a real honor to be

Jared Greer:

here. So thank you very much for that. You know, as far as

Jared Greer:

Lapovations goes, our story really starts. Back in early

Jared Greer:

2016. There was a surgeon who I worked with very closely over

Jared Greer:

the past two companies that I was with in medical sales. And

Jared Greer:

he came to me with a problem that was driving him crazy in

Jared Greer:

surgery in his laparoscopic surgeries. And just to take a

Jared Greer:

step back, you know, laparoscopic surgery is

Jared Greer:

minimally invasive surgery of the abdomen, you know, whereas

Jared Greer:

25 or 30 years ago, they'd have to make a large incision, cut,

Jared Greer:

you open completely visualize everything they were doing in

Jared Greer:

the abdominal cavity. If you had a procedure, you know, now they

Jared Greer:

go in through tiny incisions that are small enough to cover

Jared Greer:

with a band aid and they can visualize what they're doing

Jared Greer:

through small cameras called lapper scopes that are showing

Jared Greer:

what's going on inside the abdominal cavity. And so this

Jared Greer:

doctor is Dr. Chris Taylor. In Harrison, Arkansas. He's a

Jared Greer:

gynecologist. Um, one of the things that was driving him nuts

Jared Greer:

in the laparoscopic surgeries was at the very start of the

Jared Greer:

procedure, before the doctor inserts their first instrument,

Jared Greer:

they don't have visualization into that abdominal cavity. And

Jared Greer:

so when they inserted the first instrument, it's, it's typically

Jared Greer:

through the belly button, or umbilicus is the technical term

Jared Greer:

for it. And the biggest risk with the procedure is that they

Jared Greer:

will pierce the bowel or a vascular structure, you know,

Jared Greer:

some sort of important structure that they can't see yet because

Jared Greer:

they don't have a camera inside the abdominal wall. And so

Jared Greer:

that's the biggest risk of the surgery is this initial

Jared Greer:

insertion. And what surgeons typically do to minimize that

Jared Greer:

risk is they will lift the abdominal wall either by hand to

Jared Greer:

get away from those vital organs, or they will insert what

Jared Greer:

are called perforating towel clips. And the best way I know

Jared Greer:

to describe perforating towel clips is they look like a pair

Jared Greer:

of scissors with really sharp points on the end that come

Jared Greer:

together. And their intended use is to clip towels together, you

Jared Greer:

know, in the surgical field there. But surgeons will

Jared Greer:

actually insert those into the skin into the abdominal cavity,

Jared Greer:

you know, into the abdominal wall on either side of the belly

Jared Greer:

button to provide a handle by which to lift. And so, you know,

Jared Greer:

the problem for Dr. Taylor was after you know, 20 to 25 years

Jared Greer:

of practice and tissue manipulation, you know, he had

Jared Greer:

some issues with his hands that made it where he could not lift

Jared Greer:

the abdominal wall reliably by hand. And if you think about it

Jared Greer:

with the obesity, you know, epi- epidemic that we're facing here

Jared Greer:

in the United States, patients are larger, right, and so

Jared Greer:

there's a lot more tissue to manipulate. But he didn't like

Jared Greer:

the idea of using the towel clips, because the towel clips

Jared Greer:

are invasive. And laparoscopy is intended to be a minimally

Jared Greer:

invasive surgery. So, you know, he was left to choose between

Jared Greer:

two options that were not great to lift the abdominal wall. And

Jared Greer:

so what we've done at lapovations is we've developed

Jared Greer:

AB grab, AB grab is a suction based device that lifts the

Jared Greer:

abdominal wall more reliably than manual grasp, but less

Jared Greer:

invasively than the towel clips. And so in 2016, he brought me

Jared Greer:

the idea for that product. And we incorporated the business.

Jared Greer:

And we made what many would probably view as a unique

Jared Greer:

choice, in that I re enrolled at the University of Arkansas, to

Jared Greer:

partner with, you know, the the, the researchers here, and

Jared Greer:

specifically with the Walton College of Business, to help

Jared Greer:

bring this company, you know, into existence. And we can

Jared Greer:

discuss that a little bit more, as much in depth as you would

Jared Greer:

like. But the Walton College has certainly played a major role in

Jared Greer:

the success we've had at Lapovations.

Matt Waller:

How did you come up with the idea for a company, a

Matt Waller:

medical device company focused on IV access line management?

Spencer Jones:

Yeah, so I was a nurse by training, went to

Spencer Jones:

Eleanor Mann School of Nursing. And it didn't take long for me

Spencer Jones:

being at the bedside to realize some or have some frustrations

Spencer Jones:

and realize that the devices and supplies that we were using,

Spencer Jones:

that nurses were using at the bedside, were, you know, really

Spencer Jones:

commoditized, you know, poorly built, it seemed and I was

Spencer Jones:

having, you know, similar to Dr. Taylor's experience and his

Spencer Jones:

frustrations, I experienced the problem firsthand as a

Spencer Jones:

clinician, and thought, you know, there's got to be a better

Spencer Jones:

way to do this, you know, and chiefly, it was, you know, with

Spencer Jones:

safe break, which is Lineus Medical's lead product, it was

Spencer Jones:

patients losing their IV lines, you know, their IV catheters

Spencer Jones:

would get pulled out, or there would be tension on the line,

Spencer Jones:

and it would cause the IV to fail for a number of reasons.

Spencer Jones:

But it seems like all of those failures were kind of mechanical

Spencer Jones:

force derived, right? It was it was some tension on the IV line.

Spencer Jones:

So that was kind of the you know, the idea came out of that

Spencer Jones:

initial experience with the problem. And I thought, you

Spencer Jones:

know, well, what if the line just intentionally separated?

Spencer Jones:

And from there, kind of through a series of accelerator programs

Spencer Jones:

and, you know, putting a lot of smart people around the we were

Spencer Jones:

able to, you know, start and launch to kind of build that

Spencer Jones:

company and ultimately get FDA clearance last year.

Matt Waller:

Well, congratulations.

Spencer Jones:

Thank you.

Matt Waller:

In both cases, you all have been solving problems

Matt Waller:

that existed. That's one commonality between your two

Matt Waller:

companies. And, and again, I know Spencer that you're part of

Matt Waller:

Lapovations now. But but and they're both in medical. In your

Matt Waller:

case, Spencer, you saw the problem and became aware of it

Matt Waller:

because of because you were a nurse. And I told you this, when

Matt Waller:

I interviewed you for the video that time, I mean, I, I

Matt Waller:

experienced the problems that you were solving. And I thought,

Matt Waller:

wow, I wish they would have had that when I was in the hospital.

Matt Waller:

I mean, and I also, you know, even even Jared the first time,

Matt Waller:

he told me about what he was doing, I thought you can see,

Matt Waller:

you know, after you have laparoscopic surgery on your

Matt Waller:

abdomen, which I've had multiple times, you can see the results

Matt Waller:

of the trauma that it looks like, the first time I had it

Matt Waller:

happen, I thought, did they beat me in the stomach with a

Matt Waller:

baseball bat? You know, it's what it looks like, because of

Matt Waller:

all the bruising. And so I didn't know why it was so

Matt Waller:

bruised until I heard your story Jared and Lapovation, I thought,

Matt Waller:

well of course, if that's how they're pulling the skin up,

Matt Waller:

yeah, it's gonna bruise it pretty bad. And it stays bruised

Matt Waller:

for a long time it seems like and it looks funny. But so I

Matt Waller:

would imagine, not only do surgeons benefit from from AB

Matt Waller:

grab, but so do patients. And I'm wondering, have you all

Matt Waller:

looked into that very much in terms of like the the effects on

Matt Waller:

the patient?

Jared Greer:

Yeah, we sure have. So you know, there is a

Jared Greer:

physician benefit, as well as a patient benefit with our

Jared Greer:

product. And you know, the physician benefits pretty easy

Jared Greer:

to see in that, you know, if you have a more reliable way to lift

Jared Greer:

the abdominal wall, it's going to make you feel better about

Jared Greer:

the safety of the procedure that you're performing, it's actually

Jared Greer:

going to be better ergonomically for the surgeon as well, which

Jared Greer:

could, you know, lead to a longer and happier and healthier

Jared Greer:

career. But from the patient point of view, there are clear

Jared Greer:

benefits, you know, if that surgeon is able to have a more

Jared Greer:

reliable lift, that reduces your risk of having one of those

Jared Greer:

serious complications, right. And that's the that's the

Jared Greer:

absolute last thing you want as a patient because those serious

Jared Greer:

complications, they have high mortality rates, you know, a, a

Jared Greer:

piercing of the bowel or the vascular structure, the

Jared Greer:

mortality rates can be anywhere between five and 15%. Right? And

Jared Greer:

so-

Matt Waller:

They can go septic, right?

Jared Greer:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jared Greer:

And it's not uncommon for the surgeon to not recognize that

Jared Greer:

there was one of those complications during the

Jared Greer:

surgery, right? It's not, it's not uncommon for it, not to be

Jared Greer:

recognized. And so until several days later-

Matt Waller:

But the patient knows, because when they go

Matt Waller:

home. And this actually happened to me. You know, I thought, as

Matt Waller:

soon as I came out of surgery, they said, the more you walk,

Matt Waller:

the faster you'll recover and the less narcotics use, the

Matt Waller:

faster you'll recover. So I went on this ibuprofen and

Matt Waller:

acetaminophen, alternating them like this. They said, so as soon

Matt Waller:

as I woke up, I started walking, I had my IV thing I was walking

Matt Waller:

on the floor, I was at Baylor Medical Center and I literally

Matt Waller:

walked for six hours. Because they said you'll recover more

Matt Waller:

quickly. I think it worked, you know. And so I went home, not

Matt Waller:

home actually went to a relative's house in Plano. And

Matt Waller:

again, I was walking every day. And a couple days later. I feel

Matt Waller:

like I'm about to die. I was sweating profusely. I took- I

Matt Waller:

couldn't walk. My wife had to drive me to the hospital. And

Matt Waller:

they had to bring up a wheelchair. This is after having

Matt Waller:

walked for miles and miles. And thinking I called my admin

Matt Waller:

because I I said oh, I'm gonna be gone for at least a week. I

Matt Waller:

called her the next day said I'll probably be home a couple

Matt Waller:

days and back at work. Little did I know I had a month ahead

Matt Waller:

of me and it was because of this problem.

Jared Greer:

Yep.

Matt Waller:

Once you once that stuff starts leaking in you,

Matt Waller:

it's bad. It was worse than the original problem I had in the

Matt Waller:

first place. So what a great solution.

Jared Greer:

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, that's the serious

Jared Greer:

side of things, you know, and and Spencer can maybe validate

Jared Greer:

this, this number here, but it's around 50% of the serious

Jared Greer:

complications associated with laparoscopic surgery are around

Jared Greer:

this initial entry into the little cavity. And, and so

Jared Greer:

obviously, it can be very serious, you know, we're, we're

Jared Greer:

both very grateful, Matt, that you were able to overcome that

Jared Greer:

and get past it. However, you know, if you could have a two or

Jared Greer:

three day recovery versus that one month recovery that you

Jared Greer:

ended up having, of course, there's a huge benefit there.

Jared Greer:

And, you know, you mentioned something earlier about coming

Jared Greer:

out of that surgery and having all the bruises on the abdominal

Jared Greer:

area and thinking you'd you've maybe been beat up with a

Jared Greer:

baseball bat, while you're under. You know, a lot of that

Jared Greer:

comes from the use of invasive towel clips. And so you know,

Jared Greer:

it's it's not uncommon, the invasive towel clips, when

Jared Greer:

they're, they're inserting those into the abdominal wall to lift.

Jared Greer:

And so it's not uncommon for us to hear from surgeons that they

Jared Greer:

get more complaints from patients regarding the towel

Jared Greer:

clip, puncture wounds than they do regarding the surgical

Jared Greer:

incisions themselves.

Matt Waller:

I believe it.

Jared Greer:

Yeah, so having having a, a non invasive suction

Jared Greer:

based device, like AB grab is a is a real benefit to those

Spencer Jones:

Yeah, and I'll just add on real, real quickly,

Spencer Jones:

you know, we talked about the benefits benefits to the patient

Spencer Jones:

and the benefits to the surgeon. But there's also a real benefit

Spencer Jones:

to the hospital kind of as a whole or even the Ambulatory

Spencer Jones:

Surgical Center, you know, if one of these vascular injuries

Spencer Jones:

or bowel perforations occur, and it requires an additional

Spencer Jones:

surgery, right, or an additional days of lengths of stay, you

Spencer Jones:

know, that is a hospital acquired, you know, condition,

Spencer Jones:

right. And so the patient's not on the hook for that, the

Spencer Jones:

patients.

Spencer Jones:

hospitals on the hook for that. So, you know, when that occurs,

Spencer Jones:

there's a real financial impact to the hospital as well. So

Spencer Jones:

avoiding that obviously has a huge benefit.

Matt Waller:

You know, and Spencer, your experience as a

Matt Waller:

nurse, and anyone who's been in a hospital for a serious length

Matt Waller:

of time, knows the value of good nurses and nurses see the really

Matt Waller:

nitty gritty issues associated with different kinds of

Matt Waller:

procedures, failures to do certain things, et cetera, et

Matt Waller:

cetera. What a great training ground for entrepreneurs that

Matt Waller:

want to go into medicine. Because you see so many

Matt Waller:

problems. Is that right?

Spencer Jones:

It's absolutely right. I mean, nurses are, you

Spencer Jones:

know, really astute problem solvers. You know, when you're

Spencer Jones:

given your patient load, you're kind of out there on an island

Spencer Jones:

caring for them, you know, obviously, you've got some care-

Spencer Jones:

care staff and the physicians around but, you know, nurses are

Spencer Jones:

problem solvers. They're hard workers, you have to adapt,

Spencer Jones:

adapt quickly, you know, assess and adapt very quickly, which is

Spencer Jones:

a really great skill to have as an entrepreneur. You know,

Spencer Jones:

there's actually it's funny, you say that there's actually I

Spencer Jones:

think it's the University of- UPenn there's a nursing

Spencer Jones:

instructor who teaches a design, it's a design thinking in

Spencer Jones:

healthcare type class, because she recognized how valuable of a

Spencer Jones:

kind of a training ground like you said, nursing is for

Spencer Jones:

entrepreneurs and innovation. And, and you're absolutely

Spencer Jones:

right, you know, it's it's tough because there's, there's so much

Spencer Jones:

to do as nurses, we're constantly getting put, you

Spencer Jones:

know, more and more patient loads. And, you know, think

Spencer Jones:

about all these awesome innovations and devices and

Spencer Jones:

medicines that are coming out, the nurses have to keep up and

Spencer Jones:

you know, how to use all of them, right and know what the

Spencer Jones:

drug to drug interactions are, and the dosing and all that

Spencer Jones:

stuff. So, it's hard for nurses a lot of the times to kind of

Spencer Jones:

get themselves out of that, you know, I call it, you know, not

Spencer Jones:

meeting this disparagingly, acting like ants, right? They've

Spencer Jones:

got a mission, they're working their heads down, everyone's

Spencer Jones:

working together, it's hard for them to kind of get out of that

Spencer Jones:

and almost work like a hive mind, right, like, you know, a

Spencer Jones:

hive mind and see the big picture and think about

Spencer Jones:

impacting those problems. And, you know, frankly, too nursing

Spencer Jones:

is a very straight line track in terms of formal education,

Spencer Jones:

right? It's very difficult to take business classes to take a

Spencer Jones:

finance or econ or engineering classes when you're on that

Spencer Jones:

nursing track, so you don't get exposure to it. But you know,

Spencer Jones:

look, I was lucky enough to when I was down in Little Rock, have

Spencer Jones:

some great mentorship and kind of business mentors through the

Spencer Jones:

accelerator programs I did that, you know, allowed me to kind of

Spencer Jones:

say, you know what, the here's a problem. We can create a

Spencer Jones:

solution and then here's the path forward to commercialize

Spencer Jones:

it.

Matt Waller:

So Spencer, you may not know this, but what do you

Matt Waller:

part of this you know, and I'm sure Jared knows this. We, the

Matt Waller:

Walton College a couple of years ago started a new academic

Matt Waller:

department, something that doesn't happen very much. And we

Matt Waller:

started, it's our eighth academic department. And it's

Matt Waller:

called the Department of strategy, entrepreneurship and

Matt Waller:

venture innovation. I, we just felt like, hey, entrepreneurship

Matt Waller:

is in our mission statement. We need to put more focus on it. So

Matt Waller:

we created a whole new department. But one of the

Matt Waller:

people we hired to teach in it is Cara Osborne. Do either of

Matt Waller:

you know, Cara?

Matt Waller:

So so for those of you don't know, Cara, was a

Spencer Jones:

Yes.

Spencer Jones:

professor in nursing here at the U of A, so I hired a nursing

Spencer Jones:

professor to come to the business school. And now, she

Spencer Jones:

has created two and exited a couple of businesses that were

Spencer Jones:

successful, right. So she knew the business well, she, she, she

Spencer Jones:

started businesses, and sold them she she know, she knew the

Spencer Jones:

business side, she actually started a whiskey business, a

Spencer Jones:

bourbon busin- business in Kentucky too, she's still here,

Spencer Jones:

but she did that just recently. And but I thought, what a great

Spencer Jones:

her I think her Ph, she's a nurse, but she also has a PhD.

Spencer Jones:

And I believe it's in epidemiology, I can't remember

Spencer Jones:

something like that. And but I thought, what a great way,

Spencer Jones:

right, in a entrepreneurship department, to bring in someone

Spencer Jones:

with some sort of, because a domain expertise, like medicine,

Spencer Jones:

because, as you know, Northwest Arkansas is developing a

Spencer Jones:

competency around Whole Health. And, I mean, it's just

Spencer Jones:

incredible, because we have the Whole Health Institute, the

Spencer Jones:

Alice Walton Whole Health School of Medicine. Cleveland Clinic is

Spencer Jones:

coming here in a big way. And other things are happening as

Spencer Jones:

well. UAMS is increasing involvement here. There's a lot

Spencer Jones:

of things going on in healthcare. And there's more

Spencer Jones:

startups here early or not just startups, but early stage

Spencer Jones:

companies here. Hopefully, we're creating a cluster of expertise

Spencer Jones:

here and you two, I think are key to that. But, Jared, one

Spencer Jones:

thing I wanted to ask you about you, you came up with this idea.

Spencer Jones:

But it took a while to really get something that had product

Spencer Jones:

market fit. Would you mind talking a little bit about that?

Jared Greer:

Absolutely. And that's a probably a crucial part

Jared Greer:

of any startup, right? You come up with an initial idea, you

Jared Greer:

think you're solving the problem. And then it's

Jared Greer:

incredibly important to get out and speak to customers or users

Jared Greer:

and confirm that, hey, number one, I'm solving the right

Jared Greer:

problem, right? The problem there to solve. And then number

Jared Greer:

two, what I've come up with, actually solves that problem.

Jared Greer:

And so our initial thoughts for AB grab, was that we wanted to

Jared Greer:

create a device that a hand suction device, and what I mean

Jared Greer:

by that is, you know, it's got a little hand pump to where the

Jared Greer:

the user, the surgeon or the scrub tech and create their own

Jared Greer:

vacuum, if you will, to be able to make this device work. And

Jared Greer:

what we found is as as we went down that path, we found that

Jared Greer:

number one, it was pretty complex and expensive to develop

Jared Greer:

a product that could create suction by hand. And one of the

Jared Greer:

reasons we originally thought that was the way to go is you

Jared Greer:

know, because there is suction available in all operating

Jared Greer:

rooms, wall suction or portable suction. But we didn't think the

Jared Greer:

surgeons and the scrub techs would want any additional

Jared Greer:

suction tubing, you know, coming through the medical field or the

Jared Greer:

sterile field and, you know, cluttering up the mayo Stan and

Jared Greer:

cluttering up their work area. But as we got into the process

Jared Greer:

of developing that first generation AB grad, and

Jared Greer:

prototyping it, we found that when we went back to our users,

Jared Greer:

our surgeons and our scrub techs with that product, that some of

Jared Greer:

our assumptions, some of our original assumptions were not

Jared Greer:

correct. And the number one user need was reliability. And the

Jared Greer:

most reliable section was was not going to be created by a

Jared Greer:

hand suction device, but it would be created by a wall or

Jared Greer:

portable suction device. And a benefit on the back end of that

Jared Greer:

is that we were able to create a much simpler design, less

Jared Greer:

expensive to manufacture, easier for the surgeons to use. And we

Jared Greer:

made a pretty major pivot, you know, several years into the

Jared Greer:

company and moving from that hand suction device to the wall

Jared Greer:

suction device. And the that's the version of AB grab that we

Jared Greer:

are actually launching nationally this month. So it's a

Jared Greer:

you know, and we wouldn't have had the, you know, the

Jared Greer:

opportunity to do that if we hadn't been doing that customer

Jared Greer:

validation work. And, you know, just to kind of bring the bring

Jared Greer:

the story back around to the Walton College of Business and

Jared Greer:

the role that the Walton College has played. You know, during

Jared Greer:

those initial few years, I was re enrolled at the University of

Jared Greer:

Arkansas, I was actually a master's in biomedical

Jared Greer:

engineering student over at the the engineering college. But I

Jared Greer:

was in Dr. Carol Reeves' New Venture Development class,

Jared Greer:

right, because I knew that we wanted to leverage the business

Jared Greer:

plan competitions and the learnings that we could, we

Jared Greer:

could gather in Dr. Reeves' as class as we built the business.

Jared Greer:

And so a big focus at that time, as I'm sure it still is, is

Jared Greer:

customer validation. And so we did a lot of customer val-

Jared Greer:

validation work in her class, in partnership with some of the,

Jared Greer:

you know, entrepreneurial support organizations here in

Jared Greer:

Northwest Arkansas. The Delta I fund was well, at that time, one

Jared Greer:

of the organizations that we were working with startup

Jared Greer:

junkie, innovate Arkansas, you know, we've got such wonderful

Jared Greer:

support organizations to help young companies like that, but

Jared Greer:

they really focused us on that customer validation side of

Jared Greer:

things. And that allowed us to pivot into what we think is

Jared Greer:

going to become the gold standard for abdominal wall

Jared Greer:

lifting at the start of laparoscopic surgery.

Matt Waller:

Well, you know, your point about importance of

Matt Waller:

customer discovery can't be under emphasized. It's it really

Matt Waller:

makes all the difference in the world. I think that's one of the

Matt Waller:

reasons why there were so many failures from the .com, boom,

Matt Waller:

companies were getting funding too early. They were scaling

Matt Waller:

before they had product market fit and a good business model.

Matt Waller:

Spencer, you had the same thing. You you had to do a lot of

Matt Waller:

pivoting early. Is that right?

Spencer Jones:

Yeah, we, you know, gosh we went through, I

Spencer Jones:

don't know how many designs for safe break and kind of had to,

Spencer Jones:

you know, it took a long time to get to the eventual design that

Spencer Jones:

we got FDA clearance with. But I remember at first there was a

Spencer Jones:

stem in it, and then next there was, you know, some frangible

Spencer Jones:

stem and different things like that. But I think part part of

Spencer Jones:

the iteration and the pivot, you know, I'll call it more of an

Spencer Jones:

iteration than a pivot that we did was was, you know, I think

Spencer Jones:

there was normal iterations and kind of product development

Spencer Jones:

stuff that we had to do. But then the problem that we were

Spencer Jones:

solving ended up evolving based on the customer discovery that

Spencer Jones:

we were doing, you know, and because we originally thought,

Spencer Jones:

oh, this product is going to be for dislodgement, right? We're

Spencer Jones:

going to prevent people from pulling out their IVs. But then

Spencer Jones:

the more and more, we got into it, and did research, and then,

Spencer Jones:

you know, spoke with customers and things like that we

Spencer Jones:

realized, you know, infiltration and phlebitis, those are larger

Spencer Jones:

problems, and also problems that are derived from, you know,

Spencer Jones:

mechanical force on the line. And so we kind of shifted our

Spencer Jones:

focus and obviously, when you can expand the problem that

Spencer Jones:

you're solving with the same product, that's a win win for

Spencer Jones:

everybody. Right. So and sure enough, when we did our, you

Spencer Jones:

know, pivotal study, it was a 300 patient randomized

Spencer Jones:

controlled trial. The we had huge reductions in both

Spencer Jones:

phlebitis and infiltration as well as dislodgement. Right. So

Spencer Jones:

it was just really crucial that we identified, you know, kind of

Spencer Jones:

and expanded on that problem through customer discovery and

Spencer Jones:

through research. But that was huge for us. Yeah.

Matt Waller:

Well, one of the things I wanted to pick up on

Matt Waller:

what you said, Jared, about the entrepreneurial support

Matt Waller:

organizations, and you mentioned a couple I think you mentioned I

Matt Waller:

can't remember startup junkie was one of them. But there are a

Matt Waller:

lot here, you know, we've got endeavor. We've got plug and

Matt Waller:

play. We've got startup junkie, innovate Arkansas. Of course

Matt Waller:

here on campus, we have the office of entrepreneurship and

Matt Waller:

innovation, technology ventures, Arkansas, Small Business and

Matt Waller:

Technology Development Center. And then we have a bunch of

Matt Waller:

events, you know, case competition, startup

Matt Waller:

competitions, like Heartland challenge, which is really good.

Matt Waller:

The Northwest Arkansas Tech Summit, the Arkansas startup

Matt Waller:

crawl, which is fun. NWA tech fest, TechStars, Startup

Matt Waller:

Weekend, the blockchain hackathon and many, many, many

Matt Waller:

others. It's kind of remarkable how much there is right now. And

Matt Waller:

I in fact, I just earlier today I had in my office, Katherine

Matt Waller:

Andrews, I don't know if you know, her, Katherine, she

Matt Waller:

graduated here in 2013. And she's done a number of things.

Matt Waller:

But right now she is the director of outdoor the office

Matt Waller:

of outdoor recreation for the Arkansas Department of Parks and

Matt Waller:

Tourism. But prior to that, for five years, she worked with the

Matt Waller:

Arkansas economic Economic Development Commission, and she

Matt Waller:

set up the small business and entrepreneurship development

Matt Waller:

program. So she's been an entrepreneur within the state.

Matt Waller:

But, but there are so many things going on right now. And I

Matt Waller:

know Jared and Spencer, you both stay, I see you all at a lot of

Matt Waller:

different events. So you're not just building your own business,

Matt Waller:

I see you giving back and contributing to fuel I missed

Matt Waller:

fuel fuel was an important one, too. I see you all giving back

Matt Waller:

and helping other early stage companies succeed.

Jared Greer:

So it's, it's so we're so blessed, Matt, I think

Jared Greer:

to have all of these support organizations here in Northwest

Jared Greer:

Arkansas. And I cannot underestimate the importance

Jared Greer:

that these organizations have played in the development of our

Jared Greer:

company. You know, and I even go back to the very, very

Jared Greer:

beginning, because a lot of these programs that are here

Jared Greer:

today started from work that was being done in the Walton College

Jared Greer:

of Business by Dr. Carol Reeves, right. You know, for a long

Jared Greer:

time, she was kind of holding, you know, the torch for

Jared Greer:

entrepreneurship high all by herself.

Matt Waller:

She was a voice crying out in the wilderness

Jared Greer:

She was light in the darkness. That's exactly

Jared Greer:

what she was. And, you know, my first interaction with her and

Jared Greer:

her program actually came back in 2008, 2009, when I was

Jared Greer:

getting my MBA at the Walton College of Business. And that

Jared Greer:

was the first time I went through the New Venture

Jared Greer:

Development Program. It was with a company that I co-founded

Jared Greer:

called tears for life. And, you know, we were developing a way

Jared Greer:

to test for breast cancer using women's tears. You know, we had

Jared Greer:

some success in business plan competitions, ended up not

Jared Greer:

moving forward with that company for a variety of reasons, that

Jared Greer:

technology was picked up though, and, and is still being

Jared Greer:

researched and commercialized today with a another Northwest

Jared Greer:

Arkansas medical device company. So I had you know, I've had a

Jared Greer:

long relationship with with with Carol and and kind of seen that

Jared Greer:

but when I came back after after we founded lapovations and I

Jared Greer:

came back to school a big part of that a big part of the reason

Jared Greer:

was to participate in that new development program again. And

Jared Greer:

at that time, you know, there this ecosystem was starting to

Jared Greer:

develop. Right. And, you know, startup junkie was was there,

Jared Greer:

innovate Arkansas was there. It was the first year for the Delta

Jared Greer:

I Fund, which I believe at that time was an Innovate Arkansas

Jared Greer:

program and they were affiliated, you know, somehow

Jared Greer:

maybe funded by the Winrock Foundation. You know, ASB TDC

Jared Greer:

right, they they have been phenomenal and helping to

Jared Greer:

provide us mark reports and strategy sessions. And, you

Jared Greer:

know, what, what Marybeth Brooks has done over there has just

Jared Greer:

been phenomenally helpful. You know, grant writing assistance.

Jared Greer:

And so, you know, that was that was our, I guess, initial

Jared Greer:

relationships with those organizations, but that has

Jared Greer:

expanded, you know, Health Tech Arkansas and what Jeff Stinson

Jared Greer:

is doing over there, you know, we were part of their first

Jared Greer:

cohort in 2018. And, you know, that provided some much needed

Jared Greer:

capital to continue that customer validation that we

Jared Greer:

discussed earlier. You know, some of the some of the

Jared Greer:

resources they provided to us, directly led to some of the

Jared Greer:

grant funding that we were able to receive from the National

Jared Greer:

Science Foundation. And so, you know, I, we would not be here

Jared Greer:

lapovations would not be here as a company today, we would not

Jared Greer:

have AB grab being launched nationally to surgeons around

Jared Greer:

the country, without each of those support organizations

Jared Greer:

helping us along the way. And, and being able to provide both

Jared Greer:

financial support, as well as guidance, you know, when we were

Jared Greer:

encountering whatever problem or whatever challenge it happened

Jared Greer:

to be at that time to get us to the next step. So we're, we're

Jared Greer:

we're just very grateful. And I think that having that ecosystem

Jared Greer:

and that structure in place, is going to lead to that startup

Jared Greer:

community that community, that entrepreneurial community that

Jared Greer:

we are we are trying to build here in Northwest Arkansas.

Matt Waller:

Wel, and you're absolutely right. There's a lot

Matt Waller:

Sure. So we actually have two focuses right now with our

Matt Waller:

of companies that wouldn't have started without all these

Matt Waller:

organizations. And actually, Mary Beth Brooks's organization,

Matt Waller:

played a key part in keeping companies alive. During the

Matt Waller:

early stages of the pandemic, she was really engaged and made

Matt Waller:

a big difference. But we can't forget, a lot of this wouldn't

Matt Waller:

have been possible without the Walton Family Foundation. The

Matt Waller:

Walton Family Foundation has a division called the home region.

Matt Waller:

And, you know, the home region is run by a guy named Robert

Matt Waller:

Burns. And one part of the home region is focused on the

Matt Waller:

entrepreneurial ecosystem and here, and it's run by a person

Matt Waller:

named Yee Lin Lai. And she, I met her quite a few years ago,

Matt Waller:

but she did something similar in Singapore. I don't know if you

Matt Waller:

know that a long time ago. And but we are fortunate to have

Matt Waller:

that I mean, really the Walton Family Foundation. So many of

Matt Waller:

the organizations you mentioned, got their start through the

Matt Waller:

Walton Family Foundation. In our case we haven't mentioned, I

Matt Waller:

mean, you know, there are so many things, we have this new

Matt Waller:

master's program called the Masters of Science in product

Matt Waller:

innovation, that we couldn't have got off the ground if it

Matt Waller:

weren't for the Walton Family Foundation. And then we have the

Matt Waller:

green door, outdoor recreation program, we call it GORP that

Matt Waller:

helps, it's an incubator accelerator for early stage

Matt Waller:

startup outdoor products, services and technology

Matt Waller:

companies. And I think we're in our second cohort now, and it's

Matt Waller:

pretty successful, it's very encouraging to see. But now all

Matt Waller:

this is proliferating because of these organizations that are

Matt Waller:

helping, and it's also drawing people here from other regions,

Matt Waller:

because of, you know, all the resources that are here. Jared,

Matt Waller:

how are you planning to scale this from a sales perspective

Matt Waller:

right now?

Matt Waller:

company, two big, big focuses. The first is investment. We are

Matt Waller:

about three quarters of the way through a Series A fundraising.

Matt Waller:

And the goal of those funds or the usage of those funds is

Matt Waller:

going to be the national launch of our first product, AB Grab.

Matt Waller:

The second focus that we have is is that national launch, right?

Matt Waller:

We have 22 sales reps around the country who have the product,

Matt Waller:

and they're getting in front of surgeons right now getting in

Matt Waller:

front of hospitals. They're getting tremendously positive

Matt Waller:

feedback. Surgeons are loving this device we've heard several

Matt Waller:

times across the country. Why didn't I think of this? Right?

Matt Waller:

And so it's we're very excited about that, but we're in the

Matt Waller:

process of scaling up over the next 12 months, we want to have

Matt Waller:

100 sales reps across the country with this product. We

Matt Waller:

hope that those 100 sales reps can, you know, cover roughly 200

Matt Waller:

million of the population of the United States here. And so, you

Matt Waller:

know, we're we're in the process of raising the funds to do that

Matt Waller:

and putting the processes and protocols in place and probably

Matt Waller:

most importantly, getting the right people on the bus.

Matt Waller:

On behalf of the Sam M. Walton College of Business. I want to

Matt Waller:

thank everyone for spending time with us for another engaging

Matt Waller:

conversation. You can subscribe by going to your favorite

Matt Waller:

podcast service and searching be epic. B E E P I C

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