Dr. Steve Taubman, aka The Anxiety Doc is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and coach. In this episode, you’ll hear how an ex-neurotic, ex-Long Island chiropractor underwent a personal life transformation that led to his helping others discover the keys to their success and, how all of this relates to your authentic leadership journey.

More on Dr. Steve Taubman

2:27     His story

12:16   Experiences as the MTV spring break hypnotist

16:43   Nerves that fire together, wire together

20:27   Making micro corrections

24:29   Fear interrupts the flow

32:08   Clean up your act

40:48   Wash one dish

45:00   Energy

50:25   Advice to your 25 yr. old self

52:32   The legacy

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to the Finding Gravitas podcast brought to you by Gravitas Detroit. Looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding Gravitas is the podcast for you. Gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur, leadership coach, keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravitas.

Today, you'll meet Dr. Steve Todman. He is a best selling author and international mindset expert, and he is indeed the anxiety doctor. He was also the MTV Spring Break hypnotist. Now I know what you're thinking, you're probably thinking, what an earth could this guy have to contribute to the authentic leadership discussion? The answer an enormous amount of information and experience that leaders can use to help not only themselves, but others unleash their potential. The job of the leader is to help others break through barriers to improve not only their own performance, but their performance of others and to see possibilities that perhaps they couldn't see before. Dr. Taubman knows how to do that. Dr. Steve Taubman, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me, Jan.

I was fascinated with your book, bulletproof. So many things about that book resonated with me that I had to had to get you on the show. But before we get into some of the details, Dr. Steve Taubman, what is your story? Let's go right back to the beginning, so many twists and turns to your story. But let's hear it right from the beginning.

You know, I grew up, I grew up in what we now call a dysfunctional family. There were there was a lot of stress and turmoil, my parents did not get along. I was bullied as a child. And so you know, I came from a point from a place in life where I was facing challenges and facing pain at every turn. And it was not great for my self esteem. And it certainly triggered anxiety now that I'm an anxiety Doctor, I have a much better understanding of what that is and the physiology of it. But at the time I was I had very few things that that I was comforted by are things that I was really good at, I happen to be very good at school. That was good. So I did very well in school and went on to went on to graduate school, going on to chiropractic college, became a chiropractor, and developed a very successful practice, but not at first. You know, at first what happened was all of the all of the old messages inside of me all those old negatives all the old childhood trauma was still there waiting for me when I was in the position of a doctor. This is not uncommon for a lot of doctors and professionals coming out of school and suddenly being called doctor. And it triggers what's what's called impostor syndrome, which is, which is a very common phenomenon where people feel like you're calling me doctor, but I'm just Steve. And in the case of somebody who's suffered some from low self esteem, who has been bullied who's not felt good about himself, and suddenly to be in a position of authority, when for many, many years, I felt that, you know, I barely deserve to exist, it really triggered a significant amount of of that phenomenon that impostor syndrome. So it became clear early in my practice that there was something that needed to happen. Besides just having a good scholastic background. It just turns out that you can't be that successful in life. You can't be a great leader of individuals or groups, if you're still at odds with yourself. Because there are too many things that you're not facing about yourself. And anytime you see those things reflected in others, or in your team, it becomes a major trigger for you, and you just can't be effective. So that became clear. I started realizing that and so I started doing personal development work early on, and personal and professional development work and that was was, that was a dawning awareness for me to realize that I could, I could begin learning a different way of being inside my own skin. I could begin healing, healing some of the old self loathing and pain and anxiety. And I could develop a system that would allow me when I started falling into that abyss, to pull myself back out of it more and more quickly. And as I started doing that, I became better at what I do. I started attracting clients, I started being a more desirable doctor, you know, we talk a lot about attractiveness, not just physical attractiveness, but there's a, there's a kind of an attractiveness that comes along with having charisma and being free inside of your own skin. And people who have it are very attractive to us and people who don't have it. Don't get that that is the missing element.

Very well said. Okay, so you became a doctor.

I did.

And then?

And then, for many years, I ran a practice. And at first, well, first I struggled and I that I began learning things, and I started getting better at what I do. And I learned some business savvy. And I learned a little bit about what it takes to be an entrepreneur. Because make no mistake about it, if you are a practitioner, unless you're part of a very large body, like you know, you're you're an AMA doctor, and you work in the hospitals, and you don't have to get your own patients. Anything else, if you're a dentist or a doctor or chiropractor or a podiatrist or anything, you're an entrepreneur as well, you've got to attract people to you. So I learned how to do that. And I developed a very large sports medicine practice, and I ran it for many years. And I came to a point in that practice. Over the course of my years, when when I realized that something was missing, something wasn't happening for me, I was not, I was not enjoying the practice. And I wasn't, although I was doing a lot of good and I was making a lot of money, I wasn't enjoying it, I wasn't feeling like there was there was some kind of a disconnect, and I couldn't really put my finger on it. And so I tried, you know, pumping myself up, a lot of us do that, you know, you go to seminars, and you go to, you know, you read books, and you do all these things to try to pump yourself up. And it would work for a time. And then I would kind of sink back down again. And it became clear after a few incarnations of this, that there was something that was calling to me, there was something in my soul that needed to be addressed. And I didn't know exactly what it was at the time. But looking back now, I can see that, that although I was making an impact on individuals, one by one, in my practice, that there was something that required that I'd be out in front of large groups of people. There was something that required that I impact larger groups of people and that I also impact them in different ways from the way I would as a chiropractor, whether speaking in front of large groups of people or working with people one on one there is there is value. But you know, in my, in my experience, I needed to be in front of large groups of people I needed to present in that way. And I needed to widen the message. You know, as a chiropractor, the message is that there is interference to our ability to be healthy, in the form of structure, right, we have what we call subluxations, which are misaligned bones and your spine, simplifying it but you understand that effect, how nerves transmit information from our brains to our bodies. And that has an impact on on every possible area of well being. Right, if you're not getting the signals where they need to go communication is everything, whether it's whether it's, you know, a part of your body or your team, right communication is of great importance. But the work that I ended up evolving into was about creating better communication at an even higher level. So not just breaking through the or not just removing the the interference that occurs at the level of the spider the structure, but also the interference that occurs at the level of the subconscious mind. How are we interfering with our ability to live our lives effectively or to communicate effectively? How are we communicating with others, but also how are we communicating with ourselves? And the interference exists? We used to have a joke, you know, the top bone in the neck is called the Atlas. And we had everything we talked about subluxations or misalignment of the spine. Back then we would have ever we would talk about a psychological problem we would call it a subluxation above Atlas. And so that's what we're dealing with here we're dealing with, we're riddled with subluxations above Atlas our lives are less satisfying. Big Because of interference that occurs in our in our thinking process and our ability to focus our attention in different ways. And so without even realizing it, without even thinking about it, we are, we're living out a script that we didn't necessarily write.

Yes, yes, yes. And that goes right to the core of authentic leadership, because there are barriers in your mind that prevent you from being that authentic leader. And it starts off by leading your own life before you can lead others.

A lot of this stuff reminds me of Carl Jung, the great, you know, psycho psychotherapist from back in the early part of the 20th century. And he talks about how, as a leader, or as a healer, or as a doctor, you cannot be effective. If you have, if you're coming from a place of judgment, if you're coming from a place of non acceptance. And this is something that if you're a leader you're facing every day of the week, you know that there are a lot of things you could potentially not be accepting of. But what Jung goes on to tell us is that you can never accept something in others that you can't accept in yourself. Ah, yes. And so it becomes an inner game to to a much greater extent than most people realize that anytime something pushes your buttons triggers you makes you shut somebody out or push somebody off to the side and your as a leader, or fail to give them anything but your very best. You want to point this lens into of yourself and figure out what it is that I'm not accepting in myself that is being affected or, or triggered by this other person's behavior.

Yeah, that's fascinating. So let's, let's finish up your story to bring us to where you are today. So you you love the keynote speaking thing in front of people, you know, I understand taking this idea of blocks in the system, or the the structures skeleton, and the muscular system, and sort of transforming that or expanding that into the mind. Right, so I can see how that would evolve. So then what?

Well, I'll tell you a story that really was one of the pivotal moments for me that that made me realize just how powerful that principle is that metaphor is in terms of being able to affect lives affect communication, and I was doing hypnosis, I was a hypnotist doing hypnosis shows, I'm sure you've seen some of those on TV or live. And I was the first time I was the official hypnotist for MTV spring break.

No way.

Yeah, it's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. And so I was performing on the beaches of Jamaica and Barbados, in the Bahamas. And most of the shows were being televised. And in one of these shows, where I had probably about 25 college students on stage, and about 2500 in the audience, and this was a big outdoor stage, you know, band stage and kids are out on the on the beach, 2500 Semi inebriated college students, I use the word semi very loosely. And I had this group of people, I was doing all the things that we typically do in a show of that sort. I've got them the hypnotize people thinking that they're milking a cow or conducting an orchestra. I've got one guy thinks he's pregnant. And another guy thinks he's the father. And in the middle of the show, I decided to try something new. And I took one of my subjects. And I said to him, I said, when you when you wake up in the moment, three things are going to happen. They said, number one, you don't believe that you're hypnotized, even though you are. I said, number two, this is the worst show you've ever seen in your aggravated with me. And I said, number three, there's an invisible wall, three feet in front of you. And so I woke everybody up, and I said, How's everybody doing? And that one guy screamed, you suck. I said, Excuse me. So the show was terrible. I said, well, then we then leave and the guy gets up, and he takes three steps and smacks into the invisible wall. And he can't go any further and he's pushing and he's pushing and he's, his face is turning red. He's exerting all kinds of effort, can't move. He finally sits back down and he crosses his arms and he starts to pout. So what's the problem? This is nothing. I said, Are you hypnotized? He says, No. I said, Are you having fun? He says, No. I said, Well, then why don't you leave? And he thinks for a minute and he says, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. And I realized in that moment, that that is a profound thing that just happened because that was a reflection of how we all live our lives. We all have a place we want to go a hope a dream, a desire, in his case, it was to leave a stage and regardless of what it is that you want to do now obviously you need a vision If you're a leader, a vision is before everything else. But assuming you've got that vision, if you're not accomplishing it, and you're hitting some kind of a wall, as was he, you'll find number one, that all the effort in the world doesn't get you through that wall. When the wall exists in your own mind, yes, so the only remedy for that kind of a wall, which is most of our walls, in fact, is a recognition that I'm operating on old paradigms, old principles, old beliefs, and I'm limited by them. And the more effort I apply, the more it pushes back against me, I'm pushing against myself. Good example is I work a lot with anxiety clients, people who have got a lot of anxiety or stress, you know, leaders who are stressed out. And they'll say things like, distress is stressing me out. Or, or they'll get anxious about being anxious or angry about being angry, though, you know, the first time they realize that they've been bringing a lot of anger to work with them, they'll decide I don't want to be an angry person anymore. And the moment they notice anger inside of themselves, they get angry at the fact that they're angry. And so what happens again, that's you pushing against yourself, that's your emotional body, being pushed against by your emotional body, there's no wisdom. In that state, there's no place of perspective, you've got to rise above like this hypnotized subject had to rise above. And what we say is that we're all hypnotized. We recognize that we're all programmed, we're all sleepwalking through life, we're half awake, and less effective than we could be. And so the entire game becomes what do I need to do to step back from this automatic, habitual mindset. And you know, now that I do a lot of work in the area of neurology, we understand some of the neurology of that too. Right? That we that brain, that nerves that fire together, wire together. If you have the same experience over and over again, it becomes the automatic default pathway of your brain, and then there is nothing else that is reality.

And that forms a habit, either good or bad. Right? Exactly, exactly. authentic leaders, you know, really great leaders that people love to follow. It's their responsibility. It doesn't sound right. It's, it's in their DNA, it's who they are, to work with people, and help them break through that limiting belief so that they can unleash their full potential. That's what great leaders do. But you know, most leaders, as you know, in the business world are not trained psychologists, psychiatrists, they don't have the background that you have. So what advice would you give a leader in business today to help people on their team break through some of these barriers?

Well, the first thing I would say to anybody who wants to rise to that level of true leadership, is that that you want to make that commitment that, you know, I wake up every morning saying, I'm going to be a great leader, I'm going to be inspiring, I'm going to give. And in saying that, I've got to know, automatically, I've got to know that I'm going to fail a lot more than I'm going to succeed. So we need contingency plans. So you know, if I say I'm going to I'm going to go from here to, you know, to New York City. I want to know where the you know, where are the traffic blockages, you know, we have GPS now that'll tell us where the traffic is and where the accident was, I can make a contingency plan and go around it. Most people who start to develop consciousness, it takes them a while to get on to the fact that that they have patterns that if they wanted to, they could recognize and embrace but they're too busy fighting them. It's like, I don't want to admit that I'm an angry person or an anxious person or that I have a tendency to become short tempered about this or that. And so they ignore that until they're right up against it. And then once they're up against it, they're all the resources are out the window, they have no ability in that moment. Like once, once my temper is gone, my temper is gone. I've gotten no wisdom. But if you're a leader who wants to empower your team, the first thing you need to do is to say yes, I am a leader who wants to empower my team. And I'm also a human being who has a tendency to fall off the wagon. And so I've developed certain strategies that will bring me back to center. So one strategy, for example, is realizing that every irritation every emotional challenge is an opportunity. It just becomes the way you live your life. You stop living your life believing that they're irritating people. You just stop right? You know what I mean? Like you and I were joking before we started the show about the people outside who are you know, running the leaf blower Was he want to kill him. But you know, but but at the same time, it's like there's a human it when you say it, yeah, there are people who really want to kill him. And then there are also people who really will kill them. Yes, different levels of consciousness. And the higher the higher your level of consciousness, the more you realize, recognize and embrace that limitation inside of yourself. And you've got strategies, you know, so that as much as possible, I'm going to go through this day center. And every time I start to fall off center, it's like when I was training my dog to walk on the bike path with me on the along the side of the bike path. And every time I would see a bicycle, I would say bike, and then I push them a little bit over. And after a little while, I would say the word bike and he would just either move to the side, or he would sit. And even to this day, Doug's 14 years old, if I say the word bike, he'll sit, right, he developed nerve pathways, and the way we did it was repetition. And also being willing to see the subtle changes before they become big changes. So you, the leader, want to spot those very subtle distinctions between the the EU, who needs no instruction, the EU who just walks into a situation, the very best of you, the very brightest and love most loving of you who can walk into a situation. And when you're that person, you need very little instruction about how to empower other people to do the same thing, because most learning happens, not by teaching, but by example. Yes. So you become that example. So if you want to be that example, well, it means that you've got to know my nose is a little off center, like my dog, you know, you're going here, I'm not going to wait until he's in the middle of a bike path, and then drag him back, I'm going to save his nose turns like two degrees this way, I know, that means we're going in the wrong direction, let's correct more quickly. And let's be tolerant of that, right, that's how you fly an airplane, if you're gonna fly from, you know, from here to there, you're almost never on course, you're constantly making micro corrections. And so the great leader makes micro corrections, they, they monitor their own experience, they practice mindfulness, meaning self awareness. And as soon as their emotional equanimity, their their equilibrium starts to fall off, even a degree or two, they come back to center, and that constant attention to equanimity becomes something that they could start spotting in other people too. Because yeah, and now going back to Hume, because they're tolerant of that process and themselves, they can tolerate it and, and others. Now I see this person, you know, taking a misstep, I don't get stressed out and, you know, gasoline to the fire. Instead, I just noticed that what they're doing, and I make the correction subtly for them. But it starts with me.

You know, I think there's a lot of leaders out there today, and they think that leadership is all about the numbers, you know, it's all about, I've got to make money for this business, I've got to make money for the shareholders, I'm going to drive shareholder value, you know, and I'm going to hold my team accountable, and we're going to make the numbers, you know, quarter by quarter, month by month, whatever the metric is. And we know that leadership is so much more than that. And you really bring a lot of depth and meaning to that statement that you have to lead yourself before you can lead others, because the people on your team are looking at you everything about you your your eye movement, your body language, your tone, every single minute of the day. And you can transmit the wrong message very easily. You know, I remember without knowing it, without knowing it, you know, I would come into the office, and maybe there was something going on at home that had me and you know, not the best mood that day. Right? Well, you know, immediately people think, oh, my gosh, what's going on? You know, are we in trouble as a business? Why is she unhappy? Is she going to fire people what's you know, what's, what's going on with that they try to interpret that. But then if you are very self aware, and you also understand vulnerability, you're able to come into the office and say, Okay, today is not my best day, because I had a problem at home, you don't have to share every detail of your personal life. But I had a problem at home this morning. It's weighing on my mind, but I'll get through it and I'll be fine by the end of the day, then that that sort of level of you're acknowledging it, and then you're you're you're sending a message to your team, but you guys are all safe, don't worry. It's not you. It's me.

That's wonderful. I wish more people were willing and able to do that. I think we're, we're given a lot of bad message. And I you know, I think this is changing as time goes on. And maybe we're evolving toward a more general paradigm that involves more vulnerable leadership. But, you know, certainly when I grew up, you know, the picture of the boss, he's got to be authoritative and angry and you know, scary and you know, fear motivates and we know now that fear does not motivate fear, interrupts the flow. I mean, how can especially if you're or if you're leading a team where there's any kind of creativity involved, how can I possibly be creative? If I'm in fear? Well, that cortisol and adrenaline flowing through my system is going to interrupt the serotonin and the chemicals that neuro chemicals that fuel creativity. And so if I want my staff to be creative, I gotta give them a lot of I've got to create safety. And as you said, I've got to be willing to be vulnerable. You know, now there are still people will say, Well, if I tell people I'm having a bad day, they're gonna think I'm weak. And they're gonna, you know, they're gonna take advantage of me. No, no, no, that's just a misunderstanding of how human beings operate.

Exactly. It's just a story that you put in your head. Exactly. Yeah, I had a story in my head. Just a couple of years ago, well, it started when I was a child, obviously, I told myself that I was not a runner, and I couldn't run. And I was never the kid that was picked for the team. I just wasn't the sporty type, whatever that meant, right? But that manifests, right? So all my life, I've never been a runner. And then, in my last corporate role, my colleague, she was a Ironman competitor. So she was a runner. And she was my age. So there wasn't as if she was some, you know, young, athletic person there was there was no excuse that I could assign to her successor running success. And she said to me, I started going to orange theory, which is a chain a gym, and she said, You've been running on the treadmill, send me send me your results. I said, Okay, so I would send her my results. And then one day, she came into my office, and she said, then she slapped a piece of paper on the table, and she said, you're signed up for a race with me. I went, what, what, what, what? I can't, I can't run, I've never run, she goes, you run on the treadmill. Because look, you've been sending me the numbers, you can run a 5k. And I was horrified because of everything. I've been told on my life that I wasn't a runner. And I remember somebody saying, Oh, my mother, I think you have weak ankles, you know what? So I convinced myself I wasn't a runner. So then I ran the race with her. And she literally had to hold my hand throughout the whole thing, because I was terrified. And at the end of it, she put that medal on me, and she said, now you're a runner, you ran a race, totally blew that wall away, gone. And after that, I started running, and I was in my 50s, when that happened. So it's that was just proof to me in a very simple example of how we can break through these barriers, or these stories, these limiting beliefs that we put in our heads. And we can unleash all this wonderful potential that we have as human beings. It just takes one person to help you to encourage you along the way. And that's what authentic leadership is, I believe.

I That's a great story. First of all, yeah, it's a lot of the stuff that I've been privileged to do with people has either been about leadership, and you know, coaching and counseling people in leadership positions, were entrepreneurs trying to be successful. And now I've turned my attention a little bit more toward health and well being in the areas of anxiety, chronic pain, but the model is exactly the same, which is that sense of like, I've got to stop defining myself by the limitations that I've put on myself or that others have put on me. And therefore, the, the recognition that that is just a false label. As soon as that strips away, things change very quickly. And so this is not the work of incremental change. This is a work of transformation. Yes, this is a work of powerful changes. I mean, I've had people now that I do the chronic pain work, who have been in chronic pain, they have like, you know, lay in bed long hours, or they can't do anything, or they're afraid to pick up their kid or then who like after one session are out running and jumping and everything because so much of it is just the way that that they reprogram the belief into themselves, and they operate that way their bodies cooperate with that. And so that's, I love that story. By the way, I have a similar one myself, I was never a runner, either is never an athlete or a jock. And but I found out years later that I was actually fairly talented at that stuff. I was fast, but I never would have known it then. I also thought I was really really ugly back then, when I was you know, in school, and again, that was just, you know, a combination of what I saw when I looked in the mirror and the way I was being treated in school, which was also another form of reflection of my self image. And yet, you know, I look at pictures now of me when I was you know, when I was that age, I was like I was kind of a cute kid. I was like there's no there was nothing wrong with me. But I mean, I thought it was hideous. So that that line that you cross from thinking you're not a runner to being a runner, you know, you weren't you're not an author, and now you're an author or you're ugly and now you're not is it's like Changing. Yes. And you're the leader. That's right. So getting back to leadership, you, the leader, have that opportunity to make to be the person who introduces somebody to themselves.

Yes, that's very well said. It really, it starts with mindset. And a lot of your book is around mindset, a lot of your work is around mindset. And we spoke the other day, and I told you about the accountability lab that I'm running. And that has just taken off. It's got a whole life of its own. But one of the things that we do, every single morning is every person has to describe their mindset for the day, just to set that intention. And just today, I just started lab number two, just a few days ago. And today, one of the participants, she actually said, hey, you know, I said that my mindset was going to be intentional. And as I'm going through the day, those words came back to me, because not only did she verbalize it, did she speak those words out loud, but she made a commitment, in a way to the other people in the lab, to live her life a certain way that day. I mean, the mindset changes every day, because you can't be all on and perfect and wonderful and high energy every day. Sometimes there are days to reset. Sometimes there are days to organize, sometimes there are days where the mindset is relaxation. But this this power, there isn't there.

enormous power, and especially in like, two things. One is the accountability piece that people are speaking it out loud. And there are other people to whom they are accountable. And then there's also the celebratory aspect of it, which is we get to celebrate each other's successes. And I know that if I do live up to my word, and there are people who see me living up to my word, it elevates me as a human being. And it's it's like training wheels for high levels of integrity. Right? If you've got a superb amount of integrity, you don't need that, because you're just always act or virtually always acting in integrity, or at least always watching yourself to make sure you are.

This chapter in your book, clean up your act outside and in. And I love this line. In your book, it says if you acknowledge the small wins, you'll feel more energy to stay in the game for the big ones. And boy, is that true.

So true. And that's a great thing. And like what you're just what you've created for this visit, this gradually increasing group of people is something that any leader could do in their in their, in their business, right, you create that kind of a space. And again, we the creating a safe space, it's gotta be safe for me to come in and say like what you said, this is a bad day, I'm having a hard day, and then own it, hopefully let it go. But also make a commitment to something beyond that we have a hard time seeing all of us have a hard time seeing beyond our immediate vision, right? So if it's a cloudy day, it just feels gloomy. But the reality is now I'm a pilot and I've flown small airplanes for some time. And it was a fascinating thing for me to realize when I was flying a small plane that it could be a gloomy day down here and I could pop up at through the top of the clouds and it's beautiful and sunny up there. And it always is right the cloudiness is only down here. But you could live your whole life in a murky environment feeling like the whole world lacks Sun, which it doesn't. And so in the same way, you could be walking around in a cloudy mood and not realize that there's another you know, a loftier perspective, there's a place for which you could actually be see. It's it's the seeing the mood rather than being the mood.

Yes, right. Yes. And then once you when you could visualize yourself doing something or being something, you know, this reminds me a little bit of Tony Robbins in his priming exercise, right? Because he talks a lot about you know, you put yourself in that position, let's say if you're giving a keynote or something right or or you're in a client meeting, feel what's what does success look like and feel like? And that does something to your physiology, right?

It does. And sometimes we have to practice it a little bit more than others. And sometimes we just have to trust that going through the motions of those kinds of things is worth doing. Even if you don't have an immediate it doesn't feel like an immediate remedy. Good example is gratitude. Right? Gratitude is probably the number one tool at our disposal to increase our happiness index. Aside from you know, being around loving friends and family, gratitude is your best tool. And so if you're mopey, if you're depressed, if you're anxious, if you're feeling hopeless, if you're about to go on stage and you don't feel good. Gratitude is where you go. It's like I'm grateful for this stage. I'm grateful for this opportunity and grateful that I met you I'm grateful that I've got this wonderful little dog sitting over here and grateful for the beauty of the sky outside that process of being able to speak Gratitude has a transformative effect. But while you're doing it, if you're in a mopey mood, it may feel like bull. Yeah, right. It may not, you may not go in. And so you have to trust that sometimes doing the right thing or saying the right thing to yourself. There's a delayed reaction before it feels good. But it's still worth practicing. It's still worth saying your affirmations in the morning, it's still worth taking those few moments and calming and quieting I always, like I don't think there should be a leader alive. Who is committed to true leadership. There should not be a literal life who was not doing some form of meditation or some mindfulness exercise. You have to, it's not just like, you know, well, it'd be a nice idea. It's more like, you're you're only living part of a life if you haven't developed that capacity. If you don't have the eyes to see, there's a great story about a blind man who's got a sighted friend and the sighted friend says one day Oh, look how white the clouds are. And his friend, his blind friend says what is white? And he says white white, you know, like, white is like milk. Oh, so the blind guy says, So White is like liquid and cool. He says, no, no, no, white is like, like, like cotton balls. And blind man says, oh, so white is like soft and puffy is no, no, no, you totally don't get it is white. It's like, like, like sugar. And the blind man finally gets it. He says, oh, it's sweet and tasty. Right. And the point of the matter is, you could you could make all kinds of descriptions to what white is to the blind man, they're never going to know because they don't have the eyes to see what white is. And in the same way, you could do all kinds of talking to yourself and whatnot. But if you don't wake up, if you don't extract yourself from under the cloud, if you don't move to the higher level, where you can see potential and possibility and optimism. Even if there's still clouds down there, right? That doesn't mean that you may not walk out in the morning, I always wake up a little mopey, I really do. I don't I'm not like the out of bed happy guy. And plus, my dog likes to wake me up earlier than I want to get up. And so I've got some fighting this little battle with myself as we take our first walk. Don't want to wake up and you know, but I know that if I just take 10 deep breaths and I say yes. And I just like let that cold air wash over me and suck it into my lungs, that I'm going to wake up and I'm going to no longer feel that mopey feeling. But habitually, I'd rather just stay mopey. Well, that's how most people live their lives. I'd rather stay mobile, I'm so used to this level of consciousness, that I'm unwilling to acknowledge that there's a higher level of consciousness, there's a place from which I could see things from a sense of humor. From a feeling of optimism. People say, someday we'll look back at this and laugh when there's a crisis. And I say why wait?

Yes, yes, that's well said, you know, when you wake up in the morning, and I'm a huge believer in you know, mornings are everything right? How you start your day sets you up for success or failure. And when you get up in the morning, you've got to make it you make a commitment to yourself. And you the night before you say, Okay, I'm gonna get up at 5am, or whatever time it is, right. And if you if you don't, if you keep hitting the snooze, you're not holding a commitment to yourself. So in the military, they talk about get up and make your bed because it's this idea that you want to accomplish something and stay true to your word. And in your book, you say, honor your word, this can be very difficult if you're used to agreeing to things without much thought. If you're the kind of person who tells people you'll call them tomorrow, and then don't write it down. Chances are you don't put a lot of stock, they don't put a lot of stock in what you say, and neither does anybody else. And that's, that's so true. It starts with making these very small commitments to yourself and following through because otherwise you you give yourself excuses, and you talk yourself out of things all day long. And then it just gets worse. And that's why I have the accountability labs in the morning. And that we make just one commitment, one small commitment for work, one small commitment for your personal life so that you achieve it and then that builds and it sets you up for the day. So what what are your thoughts around that? I I know that that resonates with you.

Werner Eric, the founder of Aston landmark used to say without integrity, nothing works. Right? And what does integrity is is living your word being your word. If I say it, then I'm going to live it I'm going to do it. If I'm constantly in a million different ways, making agreements and saying this or saying that and then letting it just slip out of my mind. Then then, you know, I'm waking up in the morning and there's my first lie of the day right? I've already told my first lie, and we lie by omission and commission right so we might be just We're essentially lying to ourselves, we don't realize that our words have power. We don't realize that when I'm talking, I'm also listening. When my conscious mind talks, my subconscious mind listens. And so I've got to be very careful about my wording. And when we do chronic pain work, I say to people, how you feeling and if they say, It's killing me, I say that's problematic, because basically, when I say this is killing me, you just think that you're describing something, but what you're actually doing is creating something. You know, in other words, exaggeration is prediction, exaggeration is destiny. So we got to stop doing that. And we're going to be very careful about how we how we word things. And the idea of, as you said, just making one small commitment. You know, just that first thing of the day, that first thing you do in the day, it builds on itself in a very powerful way. I in my first book, I talked about wash one dish. Yeah. And the idea is, you know, how do you deal with a house, that's a mess, in fact, I'm going to have to remind myself of this one today, here my house is that I'm aware that lots of things can become overwhelming. You know, there's so many things I need to do. And it's very easy to just choose to do none of them because it's if I have to do even one of them. And I've got to think about all the other ones. But I don't, I could literally just do one of them. And somehow there's a there's an alchemical transformation that happens that when I wash one dish, and in a sink full of dishes, there's very little likelihood that I won't say, Oh, what the hell, I'll just do a few more. And oh, you know, I'm almost done. I'll finish up those dishes, and then I'll put them in the dish drainer. And I look at I say, Well, you know, I haven't wiped down this counter in a while. So I'll go ahead and wipe the counter down. And as long as I'm doing that, I might as well like rearrange the refrigerator. The next thing, you know, you've done it all. But it all started with a very small commitment.

Yeah, it's powerful. The, in the lab in the morning, you know, it's a group of people. It's a small group of people. And there's something about being around a positive group of people every morning. That's also powerful. And you cite Jim Rohn, in your book. What does he say? The you are the sum of the average of your life, people live around you.

Exactly. That's right. And Dan Clark had the spin off on that Dan Clark says, and he was he was one of Zig Ziglar protegees. And he's a very reserved, I think he's my favorite speaker, actually, Dan Clark. And I look him up. Dan says, you know, so you become the average of the five people you spend most of your time with.

And he goes on to say, if you're, you know, if you're hanging out with five depress people, chances are you're gonna be the sixth.

Yeah, so true, right. That's why I love you know, these morning groups where we, we hold each other up, and we set that intention for the day, and it's very positive and very inspirational.

We have in some of the work I'm doing right now, in chronic pain, one of the rules in chronic in the chronic pain work, at least in the model that I use is don't talk to other people about your pain. Yeah, you know, because it becomes your story.

Exactly. Yes. Yes, I know, I noticed that if, if something happened at work, you know, as I look back at my career, and I felt that I was a victim, you know, that somebody had harmed me or injured me, there's this need to want to retell the story. It's somehow part of the healing process. But you're, you're just like you say, your words are so powerful, and you're probably making it worse than what it all that actually was, right?

The only time that you're not the only time that it actually does work to your advantage is when you've got a very skilled listener, whose job you know, in my book, I talk about similar your lifeboats having people who are skilled at dissipating the reality of the thing that you're making real. So I'm making this real well, this happened and this person did this. And this person did that. And you know, there are certain things that we're, we just don't have the necessary strength to see beyond right. And so when I feel like a victim, I'm very, you know, I feel righteous, I feel I'm a righteous victim. And I've been victimized and I'm going to tell that story to everybody who listen. So they all know what a victim I am and how bad that other person is. And then every now and then I start telling that story to one of these very skilled people. And their reaction is very different. You know, so you're telling somebody about what a rotten day you had, and they're just laughing?

Right? They're like, they don't take any of it seriously, and neither should you.

Yeah, but most people don't respond that way. Right? Most people go oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. And then they make it worse, but really inside they just can't wait to get away from you. Right.

That's more likely the case. Yeah.

Starting the morning with the right mindset is great. But there's there's also something about that energy about generating that energy. Some people have a lot of positive energy. And I like to tell people, you know, you have the power to change the room. So if you walk into a room and the people in there in a pity party, and they're all miserable, you know, you have the power to do that. And some people have it. And you know, and some people don't. And I noticed, as I watched your videos on your website today, that you have that, you know, you came out on stage, and I could see, you know, the connection with the audience. So talk to us a little bit about that positive energy, how do we get into that, that state?

Well, part of it is part of itself generating when you decide that you want to make that connection with people, because connection is very powerful. So if I walk out on stage with just a little bit of the, you know, a little and then and then I draw the energy from the crowd, if I'm looking you in the eye, and I see that we've made a connection, that pumps it up a little bit more and a little bit more. So it starts with the again, like everything else, it starts with a commitment that I'm going to bring as much possible energy as I can, to this moment, one of the best ways that I know to generate the most energy that I can, given my current level of health and well being well, you know, stepping back and step is have good health and well being drink lots of water, don't be doing juice, don't be like living or you know, sugar drinks, don't be like living on caffeine, there are just a lot of things that we know that a lot of people don't do, but we know that they give us more Rob lots of energy. So more anti inflammatory versus prone for inflammatory diet and, you know, things that are getting enough sleep, not watching TV in bed, there's millions of things so that, you know, that's, you know, just the the foundation of your energy, and then to be able to access that energy, and be able to keep yourself dissipating that energy. What I say the number one tool is presence, presence, which means pay attention to what you're doing and nothing else. Be here now be in the moment. It does, it's exhausting to be doing one thing and thinking about something else. And most people do that they'll be trying to have this conversation, but they're wondering if they turn the stove off or, and you know, again, with authentic leadership, and and what we discussed in terms of authenticity and integrity, it behooves us when we're losing our focus, when our mind is not in the moment in the present moment to call ourselves on it. Right? Somebody's talking to you and you're glazing over, don't just keep glazing over and hoping they don't notice it. Because they do. Yeah, every time they do so. And in fact, not only do they notice it, but it has a major impact on their capacity to communicate. Because communication happens from here to here. It's not just the transmitter. It's also the receiver that creates communication, and therefore whatever communication is blocked by poor listening, the person who's speaking senses that and they start losing their capacity to say what they want to say. I don't know if you've ever noticed that. But like when I talked to my, you know, like sometimes my dad is he's much better about this now. But he used to be very distractible, and he'd be doing something else while I was talking to him. And he'd say something like, that's interesting. And I know that he was just saying those words because his mind had been distracted. And at that moment, I would notice, I couldn't remember what I wanted to say next, I couldn't articulate what I wanted to say easily. Because I because we speak it to other people's listening, if their listening is poor than our speaking is poor, the whole communication crumbles. So again, it behooves us to have a high level of presence and a high enough level of integrity that if my attention wanders, I've got to say, Hey, Jen, excuse me for a moment, my mind just wandered. Let me bring myself back. Okay. Can you say that again?

That's right back to what we said at the beginning. It's about bringing yourself back to center is that self awareness? Right, exactly.

Self awareness and the authenticity and the willingness to do it. You know, it's, we talked about the the eyes to see, which is, you know, the capacity to see that there's a different perspective. And then there's also the necessary strength to make the right choice. When you do see it, right. So, you know, I think Tony Robbins calls that he says, There's sensory acuity and behavioral flexibility, you need to both so you need to be able to be aware, acutely aware of how your energy is, is off or how the situation is playing out. I think you've got to be able to choose a new behavior in response to that. Yeah, so it's that behavioral aware of behavioral flexibility along with the sensory awareness. So that sensory awareness is Wow, my mind just wandered. And the behavioral behavioral flexibility is, I'm sorry, my mind wandered. Let me bring myself back. Let's be really present with one another. And that as a leader, is that's That's gold. That's the absolute gold. I mean, that's the leader that gives people the chills.

That's right. That's right. That's the leader that will galvanize people around them and around their vision for sure. We've talked a lot today. But I have a very important question to ask you. And this is really, maybe for the younger audience. And that is, what advice would you give to your 25 year old self? Today in today's world?

Well, when I was 25, I pretty much knew everything. And at some level, I mean, it was very smart. You know, I had a lot of a lot of knowledge. But I think at the age of 25, what I lacked was wisdom. Sometimes the wisdom is knowing when to spout your knowledge and when to shut the hell up. You know, when not to have to be right. And when to not take things quite so seriously. So the advice I would give my 25 year old self would be don't Don't believe everything you think. And, and recognize that there may be a larger frame in which what you're saying is not the whole truth.

Yes. And I love that though, don't believe everything you think it took me a long time to figure out that I could actually control my own mind and mean, and that sounds crazy. But it did took a long time.

We get better at it. And we it becomes a subtler process. But as long as you've got commitment to it, you know, that day that you wake up and you're feeling lousy, or you know that you're not giving your best. Go take a walk for a few minutes and just say to yourself out loud, you know, okay, I'm not feeling great right now. But I'm going to bring about a greater sense of energy and possibility. And I'm living in a beautiful world, and it's fully abundant. And, and the more present I am, the better things you're going to get. And you just basically give yourself a pep talk.

And in your words from the book, you are the author of your fate, you are the reason you're happy or miserable. And you have the power to change it. You do? Yes. Yes. So your career, you know, has taken many twists and turns, right, there's a lot that you're giving to the world. But what is your legacy?

I believe that of all the things that that I that I present that I teach that I try to embody the one that that I would like to feel that, that I've made, the contribution that may be different from other people's contribution. Is is the idea that the the things that we have aversion to the things we don't like the things we push back against the things that we have resistance to the things that irritate us, or aggravate us, or piss us off. They are our greatest allies. All right, and, and that's not just, you know, New Age mumbo jumbo, it's literally, that there are processes that we can undertake, that in the moment that you're feeling that this thing has created this emotional reaction, that with the wisdom that comes from knowing that there's no such thing as cause and effect without something in between. Right, so you said something unconscious, and I got really angry, that's that I would view that as cause and effect. But in between, there's there's a very large space that is shrunken down to a very small space, because of lack of consciousness. Because it happened so fast. You said something, and I met and it's a very instantaneous thing. But if I've learned through practice to slow the movie, reel down, so I could see it frame by frame, then I know that there's a something that happened in between those two occurrences. And what happened was I interpreted, I interpreted, I came up with a conclusion about what you did, and what it means and what I should do about it. And that all happened without my conscious awareness. But if I can get that movie slowed down, and I can tolerate the discomfort that's playing out during that one frame of the movie, and work with the feeling that comes from my interpret my interpretation, nothing you did, it's my interpretation that I've come out the other side a better person. And how do I do that? Well, this is a lot of the work that I teach, but it really comes down to being able to make peace with silence to get out of your head and into your body. You know, something happened, I'm starting to feel something as a result of it. But before I react before I you know, turn that karmic wheel one more turn. I stop. I breathe out. I allow my attention to to be drawn to the feeling itself, independent of the thoughts I'm having. And I do something I essentially alchemize that feeling so that it can be dissolved. And if we all could do that, that's my legacy. I want us all to realize that that's possible that whatever is, you know, like my, the name of my book under bulletproof, it says, whatever, what if everything that bugged you blocked you or brought you down, didn't write? If that's a question, you were asking yourself moment by moment. And then you also had a tool or a series of tools that you can use to literally create that experience, you would in fact be bulletproof.

Yes, yes. Well said. And one thing I loved about the book, too, is that it's an easy read. It's not a hard book to read, you know, but you as you go through, you go, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah, I get I get that I know what he's talking about. Very, very enjoyable, and very helpful, indeed. Okay. Well, Dr. Steve Tobin, thank you very much for your time today.

It's been an absolute pleasure. And I look forward to more great conversations. And if anybody wants to know more about my work, I'm pretty easy to find out there.

Yes. And we'll have your links to your website and your books in the show notes. All right.

Thanks for having me, Jan.

Thank you.

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