In this episode you'll hear Paul Gadi, who is a faculty member in the Department of Business Administration and Management at Plateau State Polytechnic in Barkin Ladi, Nigeria.

This week is about polytechnics, which sits at the intersection between vocational and academic education and could play a key role in upskilling Nigeria's working population. Dr. Gadi tells us about the bad and the good of these important institutions and shares what he would do if he were rector at the Plapoly, the consequences of Nigerian academia becoming a family affair, and the differences between Malaysian and Nigerian academia

David Ehrhardt

Welcome to Africa knows.

In this episode you'll hear Paul Gadi, who is a faculty member in the Department of Business Administration and Management at Plateau State Polytechnic in Barkin Ladi, Nigeria.

This week is about polytechnics, which sit at the intersection between vocational and academic education and could play a key role in upskilling Nigeria's working population. Dr. Gadi tells us about the bad and the good of these important institutions and shares what he would do if he were rector at the Plapoly.

The consequences of Nigerian academia becoming a family affair, and the differences between Malaysian and Nigerian academia. Here is Dr. Gadi.

Henry Mang

So what do you think is the problem with the polytechnics now? Is it the system or the curriculum or both?

Paul Gadi

I think is the system. The curriculum is still very. Okay.

Henry Mang

Yeah.

Paul Gadi

Because I think the problem here is my own institution.

Henry Mang

Yes, it's your institute.

Paul Gadi

Yeah. Because I've gone to other polli techniques. I've been going for accreditation and other things. Yes. Then if you pick schools. Poltechnics. Yes.

Like Yabatech. Yes. You pick a polytechnic.

Henry Mang

Yabatech in Lagos.

Paul Gadi

Yes, in Lagos. Cat Poly in Kaduna.

Henry Mang

Kaduna Polytechnic.

Paul Gadi

Yes. We have Ilaron in Ubun.

Henry Mang

Okay. All of these are good.

Paul Gadi

Are good politics techniques that can compete favorable or far better than the universities. Because if you check the system, what they are doing.

Like if you check most of the graduates from Investors Polytechnic that have gone through ican, all the ican packs are developed by lecturers from Yavatech.

Henry Mang

Okay. Why is Yaba Tech so unique sir?

Paul Gadi

Unique because it was actually one of the first established institutions and they have a very good structure that yes, They followed down trying to compete with other polytechnics around the world. Looking at what they are doing. Yes.

Henry Mang

That follow the trend.

Paul Gadi

They follow, follow the trend. But in our case, I think basically lack of facilities. And one of the things that brought us backward, that is a state institution.

And when we had lecturers from other states, different nationalities, I think PlaPoli was actually competing.

Henry Mang

Okay. So now I think let's go back to, Let's look at it from the more local.

So there is a difference between how state institutions are run and federal institutions are run within the polytechnic system?

Paul Gadi

Yeah, I think it's supposed to have the same standard, but you know, definitely I think there are compromises along line.,

Henry Mang

So states compromise standards? Okay.

Paul Gadi

you compromise, they compromise. Everybody from the students, to the lecturers are coming from the same environment. Either your relative or what? They don't take things very seriously. Looking at someone who you don't know. I Think.

Let me give you one of our experiences.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

We had Dr. Anila,. She was in my department.

Henry Mang

She was not a Nigerian.

Paul Gadi

She was not a Nigerian.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

We had people from different states. Yes, yes. Dr. Anila alone, invigilate exams in twin theater. A whole of almost 200 alone.

Henry Mang

Alone.

Paul Gadi

Without students turning their heads, doing the right thing.

Henry Mang

She was very strict.

Paul Gadi

And I asked the students, the students told me, no, they don't know their culture. If she takes a decision, it stands.

Henry Mang

Okay, so what you're trying to tell me, Dr. Paul, you're trying to say that some of the problems of our academics is cultural.

Paul Gadi

It's cultural. Actually.

Henry Mang

It means that, okay, if you are from this part or if you're from Nigeria, you are expected to cut corners. You're expected to. So like Dr. Anila in her case, because she's not a Nigerian, she's. They see her principle and they are afraid of her.

But when you are a Nigerian or when you are from Plateau State, for instance.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

They expect that you have to give them some elbow room so that they can cheat or do something.

Paul Gadi

Of course.

Henry Mang

Is that so?

Paul Gadi

Yeah, we have. Let me just tell you, I think in the course of my work I've learned a lot. Yes, we have different. We have lecturers.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

That halved their political aspiration. Yes, they have gotten to a pit that they are not really contributing.

But yes, they actually thinking of becoming something or aspiring for a position.

Henry Mang

Okay, so they are political lecturers. More or less.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, we are political lecturers. Where you have an intention.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Then somebody who is coming from your village who is not intelligent and is a local champion in your village politics, you are afraid of doing anything contrary that will tell you, you know it in the classroom. I will teach you at the other side.

Henry Mang

So basically what you're saying now is that in many cases, most of the students that come to the polytechnic are students who expect their lecturers to help them.

Paul Gadi

Yes. Of recent, many students,... a plateau student, averagely, is very good academically. Academically, yeah.

If he leaves his own environment to a different environment, you look at.

Henry Mang

So let's say a Nigerian student generally.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, A Nigerian student, his performance is exceptionally good. But when he comes to his comfort zone, he feels like, yeah, Dr. Gadi is my cousin, Dr. Ghadi is my neighbor. Why should I kill myself?

Henry Mang

So basically why education is more or less problematic in Nigeria is that we have turned education into a family thing. We, we try to look at… We don't look at the quality of the education, but we look at the quality of the paper as more important.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, we look at the quality because most students are today discover that some of them are interested in just a paper qualification. They're not interested in the knowledge.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

So you keep on fighting with them, trying to put them to do the writing that getting the knowledge is more important than the paper qualification. But some of them wouldn't understand because my argument with them, even as a Nigerian. Yes.

If you have the paper qualification, you have students, you have Nigerians that have studied all over the world.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Different institutions. So when you are meeting, what will now be your contribution? These are some of the challenges that we're having.

Henry Mang

So the implication here is that you are saying that students are not able to achieve much because they expect that they should be passed without doing what they are supposed to do.

Paul Gadi

When you checked, even the admission requirement has actually it has caused a lot of problem for the poll techniques. Yes. Because the poltechnic accept anything down to 1-200 in jam.

Henry Mang

jam is the admission requirement. National admission requirement. Yes.

Paul Gadi

Whereas the universities packed most universities will tell you anything. Some courses, anything below 180 will not be admitted.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

The same post related to protecting accept up to 120. Okay. So you don't expect the standard.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

And the students to be more serious. It's like they have already sift taking all the more serious students to the university.

Henry Mang

So now this, this is problematic. So you're trying to tell, you're telling me now that basically the polytechnic system is the bottom feeder.

that means the universities carry the more prospective students.

Paul Gadi

Yeah.

Henry Mang

And then they leave the less prospective students for the polytechnics.

Paul Gadi

No, in reality that is it because.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

If you checked, go back to Jumputa checked how many percent percentage of students apply polytechnic colleges of education as their first choice. Every year you discover that 98% first choice universities 2% will now go to the protector 3 or 4%.

Henry Mang

Is that, is that data reliable?

Paul Gadi

Yeah, it's reliable. It's from the JAM portal.

Henry Mang

Also the JAM portal now.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, the jam after every registration jam will tell you these are number of students that registered their first choice.

Henry Mang

So it means 98% of prefer of young people or young students prefer universities.

Paul Gadi

Because of that dichotomy when it comes to even employment.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

When it comes to employment they will tell you poltechnic there is a certain bar that you stop at.

Henry Mang

Okay. So it brings us to this particular question.

Paul Gadi

Yeah.

Henry Mang

In Nigeria there is this dichotomy between polytechnics and universities and it goes even to the issue of getting jobs, right?

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

So if you are, if you are a polytechnic graduate, your remuneration is less and your rank, your rank is reduced.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

And also you reach a certain bar. Why is that?

Paul Gadi

I think the first thing polytechnics were established as middleman power. Okay.

Henry Mang

So the polytechnics were established as middleman.

Paul Gadi

Power and vocational institutions. Not administrative.

Henry Mang

Not administrative.

Paul Gadi

Yeah. That was the. The aim of the polytechnics.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

To breach the technological gap.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

But along line, somebody who is an engineer, wants to be in an office, drops the skill that he has acquired, start sitting down in the office. And at the end of the day he was not. Not really applying the knowledge what they have actually acquired from the polytechnics. But you see class struggle.

That is what brought about some people. If you are in the Senate today, reps. Somebody who comes from the university, you feel like you have arrived, you have achieved that height.

Definitely you start struggling for the poltechnic for that equality. But as far as I'm concerned, even, even wen we at least I graduated from the university.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

I worked in the polytechnics. Yes. But when you checked the accreditation requirement protect me. What gives a university accreditation to run a degree.

Then when you come down to the polytechnic, from the facilities infrastructure to the manpower possible, they might not have all this. So why do you now equate if you cannot have that accreditation?

Henry Mang

Okay.

So basically the lack of equating the certificates of a polytechnic graduate with that of a university is based on the fact that there seems to be less quality in the polytechnic than in the university.

Paul Gadi

There is quality when it comes to the educational distinct. But everybody wants from the resource to today to the infrastructure.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Let there be equality. So that whatever you are bringing out, you are graduating from the polytechnic and from the investor. You see that equality.

Just like I made mention of some protectants.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Kat Poly. Yes. Yaba Tech in Lagos.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

They have all this that meets up the required universities. If you possible you check the business admin department.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Then we say like proft. Professor.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Is around. Yes. Chief lecturer is around.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

But all of them have their PhD which is the highest qualification that anybody in the academics can obtain.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

So if all of them have it in Yaba Tech and they write their papers.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

They have met up everything them. It shows no difference with the university. But the situation where you have a politecnic that the highest qualification might end up as a master.

Master's degree, then majority have first degree hnds teaching. Then they have to like go for further studies in the university. And now tell you that they are equal with the university is not possible.

Henry Mang

Now let me ask you, this is more personal.

Paul Gadi

Yeah.

Henry Mang

In your department, you're in the business administration department. How many people have PhDs in this department?

Paul Gadi

We have. We are two.

Henry Mang

There are only two.

Paul Gadi

We are only two.

Henry Mang

And how many lecturers are there in the department?

Paul Gadi

We have like 21 lecturers.

Henry Mang

21 Lecturers and only two with PhDs. Has that become a problem for you?

Paul Gadi

Well, we are trying to encourage others because.

Henry Mang

But no, no, I think you're evading my question. Has that become a problem for you? Have you had a situation where others feel as if you have a domineering personality because you have a PhD?

Paul Gadi

Yes, I have it. One of my colleagues said we are kids, we got a PhD and behaving as if.

Henry Mang

Okay, so because you're younger than him and he was. He has been here for long, I guess.

Paul Gadi

Yes, we even. Yes, he's an older person than us. He graduated before, but we started the same time.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

And probably because he had a. He have a HMG and he feels like we are. We have that domineering.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Attitude. Yes.

Henry Mang

So the implication of this is that apart from trying to deal with the problem of students expecting you to solve their problems, you have. The problem of…

The jealousy between you and some colleagues.

Paul Gadi

is always there. It’s there

Henry Mang

Yeah, I know there's. There's always that academic rivalry, but, you know, unlike.

Why I ask this question is that most cases, unlike the university, and just as you said, in. You know, in politecnics, like Yabatech, they have a lot of PhDs.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

In PlaPoli, here, in Plateau, in your department, for instance, now you have only two PhDs and the rest are not PhDs. Some of them have stayed in the politecnicl longer than you. You will have definitely this acrimony between you and them.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

And does that affect the academic activities of this. Of the system? How do you overcome these acrimonies?

Paul Gadi

Well, sometimes I feel for me…

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Seriously… I have learned over time that not looking at all, I'm not really setting my benchmark.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Looking at this institution.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

I look at other colleagues that we have schooled together, are lecturing in the university.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

That I try to set my benchmark with. With looking at them. No matter how… How you look at me here, that we have a problem.

But I'm not looking at you as if we have a problem, because I'm looking at. Possible within a time I might lift.

Henry Mang

But that is the problem. If you're looking at others, are not looking at. Doesn't it affect the academic system here?

Paul Gadi

It actually affects. Because basically someone is just like someone feel like he doesn't have the PhD and students are looking at him.

He always wants a situation where he can cause trouble. Issues. Come up with different issues.

Henry Mang

So the implication here is that in most cases the progress of the department is hampered by the politics of those who have PhDs and those who don't.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

And how much of that affects the students, do you think?

Paul Gadi

No, it has affected the students a lot because some try to take their part, personal interest and victimize some of the students.

Henry Mang

To victimize the students.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

Yes. And that has become quite problematic, I'm sure.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, it has become. And that's why you checked. Because of that it has dropped down the student enrollment.

When you check the number of students that we used to have and what we have now, we don't.

Henry Mang

So the students don't want to come because they are afraid of…

Paul Gadi

if one staff issue end up affecting them as individuals. So they prefer to just enroll in other institutions.

That at least those issues will not affect their prolonged stay in school as the economic times are very difficult.

Henry Mang

But in general, what do you think the polytechnic for instance has to offer to Nigerian development?

Paul Gadi

I think the polytechnics have a lot, a lot and a lot to offer even more than the university because they are innovative and technological.

Henry Mang

Okay, okay.

Paul Gadi

Because all those things that we import. Yes. That I believe we have a comparative advantage that we can do. I think the polytechnics can virtually do all.

If you checked, for instance, the archer grabbing machine was a product of polytechnic innovation.

We have so many products of polytechnic innovation that if the government had capitalized on it all this importation of Nigeria would have been importing more than exporting more than any other country. Because the aim of polytechnic was innovation. Innovative institutions.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Technological and other things. And that is the trend. That is what the world is into. But because we lost our focus, start went into administrative.

Even people who are engineering students. Yes. Are focusing on how they will become administrators instead of...

Henry Mang

Okay, okay, that's interesting. So the people that should develop innovation are anxious to become administrators?

And so that becomes problematic because everybody is looking for how he or she could build on power instead of building on innovation. Development.

Paul Gadi

Yes. We have one of I think the state polytechnic.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

In Kwara. Kwara State pole technique is a different polytechnic now.

Henry Mang

Yes. Okay. What makes it different?

Paul Gadi

The different polytechnics they have been able to key into the main objective of the polytechnic system. And the university Is now into production of everything that you can think of.

Henry Mang

The university or the polytechnic?

Paul Gadi

Now the polytechnic don't get money from the government for their salaries and other things. They pay from what they make.

Henry Mang

Wow. So you mean there is a polytechnic in Nigeria

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

Where innovation has taken over that they now sustain themselves based on what they produce?

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

Why can't Plateau State Polytechnic do the same?

Paul Gadi

I think our people went for. For a study.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

And to see if they can key in.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

But I think the political interest. Did not allow them implement

Henry Mang

Yes. political interests of Plateau State?

Paul Gadi

Plateau State and some groups interest.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

They allow them to key into what they had already studied. Okay. Because Kwara State protected. They brought a rector. A rector that perfect said. Okay. What can you do aspire? you are supposed to think…

What can you bring to the table.

Henry Mang

As a business administrator? Business management. Yes.

Paul Gadi

Are you into consulting? Are you into this? Are you into this? You register.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

You see, we are not training people how they can be self reliant.

Henry Mang

Self reliant

Paul Gadi

Is it an entrepreneurship? What kind of things can you do from this department? Is it slt? What are those things that you can do then? All those services?

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

All those products?

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

You now provide the readymade product readily made products that the states can consume. So all the monies that the state would have been importing or whatever.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Like the state contracts now building of roads, construction or other things. We have all these departments. Why can't we be innovative?

Henry Mang

Yes. To use the polytechnic, to use the positive to do this. And that's what Kwara State is doing now.

Paul Gadi

That's what they're doing.

And by doing it you are equally training your students practically that they get the practical aspect instead of just relying on the theoretical aspect. Okay.

Henry Mang

So the idea is that unlike Plateau State, Kwara State has keyed into the idea of innovation through its polytechnic.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

And. But let me ask you this on a more personal note. If you were.

It's a hypothetical now, if you were the rector of this polytechnic, what would be your focus?

Paul Gadi

If I were. I think I have to key in.

Henry Mang

Key into what?

Paul Gadi

Look at areas that we have competitive advantage.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

What our people can do.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

What we think that we have the best skills and the resources.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

To start producing certain things that will give us a competitive that we can have a global outlook. And I think the president rector now is trying. He's trying to key into all those kind of those issues, those areas. He has told every department.

He told every department. Look at what you can do. We'll look for capital, look for everything that you want so that you start in the next five years.

We don't want you to be asking money from the polytecnics. You should be served sufficient.

Henry Mang

So he's trying to follow the model of the Kwara State University.

Paul Gadi

Yeah. Even though he has gone through, but he's a new rector. That he has his own ideas right from onset that if he becomes,... this is what he's doing.

Henry Mang

What about you?

Paul Gadi

About me I think if. About me I think.

Henry Mang

We're hoping that one day you will be a prospective rector.

Paul Gadi

Yeah. If. About me.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

At least I can change the polytechnic. Where the Plateau state would depend on where the Nigeria would depend on where the war would depend.

Where we're going to come up with different innovative products through ...

Henry Mang

Like for instance now what are the comparative advantages of let's say Plateau State? That you as a business manager or as a business administrator, an academic in business administration, business management would want to key in or encourage people to be building?

Paul Gadi

Yeah. Like the advantage that we have. We say Plateau State is the home of peace and tourism.

Apart from the peace and tourism is a place that is blessed with deposit of different mineral resources. Just like questions I've asked. We from the plateau, especially from the northern zone that we have a lot of deposit of.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Right from the time I was born that we sell the raw. We don't process the raw thing.... Yes.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Why can't we study, know what the thing is being used for?

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Then we'll now have what we call process to the finished good. The process will create a lot of jobs. Yes. We bring a lot of innovations.

Would bring a lot of other subsidiary companies that will adopt more to what we are getting. Apart from the tin, we have monozyte. We have different raw materials mineral resources. What do we do with it? We have Department of Mineral Resources.

We have the Department of Foundry that is fabrication and other things. What do we fabricate? We end up not doing anything with all these department we should be able to use our resources fabricate.

Then we have the end products where we can generate jobs, reduce youth unemployment and make it a hooped, an industrial hoop that will attract other foreign investors. That is FDI direct foreign investment to key in that. Yes. They have something that they can equally rely on that is money.

If paraventure one day I become that will be mine for postponement.

Henry Mang

So the implication is that basically we can't… We are not maximizing our capacity as a state.

Paul Gadi

at all.

Henry Mang

Interestingly, you did your PhD in Malaysia, Malaysia also produces tin.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

What is the difference between innovation and research in Nigeria and innovation and research in Malaysia?

Paul Gadi

Innovation and research in Nigeria we have two different things. Most of the companies own in Nigeria they are mostly like multinational companies.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

And multinational companies, they do their research in their own country. They just come to Nigeria to execute.

Henry Mang

Okay.

Paul Gadi

They don't sometimes then don't use our local imputes.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

But in Malaysia they try as much as possible people like we have their local products that they try to compete with the foreign products. They have their own indigenous companies. So by having those indigenous companies trying to meet up with the, with the first world.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

They are now paying, giving institutions money for research to see how they can be able to.

To come out with a better process of doing this with better raw materials which one can be able to fit in so that they can compete in terms of cost and comparative advantages. But in Nigeria the case is a reverse that our research is basically for certificate works.

Henry Mang

Okay. So unlike, unlike what is done there, they try to build on. So that means small and medium scale industries.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, they do.

If you check most of their research work, I think it is the students that are even doing a PhD is either a grant that a proposal which a lecturer has actually submitted and gotten a grant.

Henry Mang

But in Nigeria you don't get grants easily.

Paul Gadi

That's the difference.

You see in Nigeria it's a grant that a company who wants them to do a research on a certain thing, either a process or a problem that they have discovered that they give them a grant to do a research work and they now invite a PhD holder to do a study. As the lecturer is doing the Ph.D. they're able to come up with something that can solve that organizational problem.

The organization is actually paying for it. But in Nigeria we are doing a PhD because a PhD has become like a necessity now. A certificate for promotion.

Not one single lecturer I've had that, I got a grant and I'm inviting students to put on. Yes, this is this way of putting. I've seen it.

I think a PhD in Malaysia completely is far, far, far ahead of what we do in Nigeria because I've seen so many people, even the PhD you ask is just what has been done in America for the last 20 years that they have just released those articles we see now that has become something innovative in Nigeria.

Henry Mang

Basically what you're saying is that Nigerian Research is archaic.

Paul Gadi

Especially in the social sciences.

Henry Mang

Especially the social sciences, yes. And the humanities too. Because I was Interviewing another professor and he was saying humanities and social sciences.

There's no innovation, no new thinking. And everything is old.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, everything is old. It's all like in our research now. And people are talking about mediation and moderation. Then when you check.

Henry Mang

1986. And that is when I discovered this.

Paul Gadi

Then that's what Nigerians somehow have not actually discovered. Some are waiting in another five years. That's when they will start writing, when.

Henry Mang

Other new ideas have already arrived.

Paul Gadi

Yes.

Henry Mang

So I think we have a problem of. We'll say the absence of new knowledge.

Paul Gadi

Yes, it's a problem and possible one of the problems. We don't look at our own issues. We are following. Yes. We don't look at our own fundamental what our cultural problems in Nigeria try to solve them.

We are now adopting models that cannot solve our problem in Nigeria.

Henry Mang

Okay, so give me an example of that.

Paul Gadi

Yeah, a model. Probably when you have a model in Malaysia. Yes. That look at youth unemployment.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Possible with their population, with their resources, their might be looking at a different direction, how they intend because of the different ethnicities which we have. The Malay, the Chinese and the Indians.

Henry Mang

Yes.

Paul Gadi

Then based on the different differences, they know how their model can be able to take care of all these interests. But us, with so many different geopolitical zones, states, ethnicity, ethnic groups, we adopt what is not possible.

Instead of sending people on research to.

Henry Mang

Find out local problems, localized problems.

Paul Gadi

Yes, we are now adopting and just trying to implement. Or you send somebody on research, you do a copy and paste a model from a different country come and present and we clap hand.

But that model cannot actually solve our problem because we have not gone into in depth research. Yes, because most of our research is just a copy and paste of other people. They try to look at their own personal issues.

Can they come up with what has solved their own problem and that cannot actually solve our own problem.

David Ehrhardt

Thanks for listening to this episode. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you have any notes, comments or questions on this or future episodes, we'd love to hear from you.

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