Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros, your inside track to the strategies, stories, and culture shaping today’s mortgage business.

In this episode, we’re excited to welcome a true industry legend: John Mirenda, founder of Greentree Mortgage. For decades, John has been widely respected not only for building a powerhouse mortgage company, but for doing so with a focus on people, honesty, and servant leadership. If you’re a mortgage owner-operator grappling with the challenges of growth, culture, or even considering a merger, John’s journey is a masterclass in navigating them all.

We kick things off discussing the big question: What happens when an owner who’s been courted by competitors for years finally says “yes” to a real conversation? And, more importantly, what does a merger look like when people, culture, and leadership truly come before the numbers? Dave Holland, Tom Mills, and Robert Fillyaw team up with John to explore the ups and downs of his 30-year journey at Greentree, his rise from entry-level employee to owner, and the tough times that ultimately defined both his company and his leadership.

We dig deep into what made Greentree stand out—its reputation, its culture, and the extraordinary loyalty of its team, even as competitors sought to lure them away. John Mirenda shares the story of buying the business just before the market crash, the years spent in survival mode, and the lessons that only adversity can teach. Together, we talk through what made our own merger unique: how trust, transparency, and partnership came before negotiations, and how keeping culture intact guided every decision.

The heart of the conversation is about more than business. It’s about what it means to put people first, why servant leadership—while not the fastest path—creates lasting and meaningful success, and why sometimes, being open to one key conversation can change your business and your life for the better.

Key Takeaways:

1. Servant Leadership Isn’t Just a Buzzword: John Mirenda shares how seeing himself as a partner and service leader to his team (not just the “boss”) built a foundation of loyalty and stability, especially through market turmoil and aggressive recruiting from competitors.
2. Survival Through Adversity Builds Real Success: The toughest years—surviving the ’07–’09 mortgage meltdown—didn’t just test Greentree; they defined its future. John explains how taking just one positive step each day through crisis laid the groundwork for long-term achievement.
3. Culture and Trust Over Numbers: When merger talks began, the conversation centered on vision and people, not the balance sheet. The partners made sure that Greentree’s legacy, reputation, and relationships stayed at the center of every decision—proving that deals built on trust last.
4. Collaboration Multiplies Opportunities: After years “at the top but alone,” John found the greatest surprise and benefit was joining a partnership where leadership and decision-making were shared. This collaboration opened new doors, from technology to marketing and coaching his team had never explored.
5. Openness to New Conversations Drives Growth: John’s message to other mortgage leaders: Don’t close yourself off from new partnerships or ideas out of apprehension or habit. Sometimes, the path to even greater fulfillment and success is on the other side of one open, honest conversation.

This episode is packed with wisdom for any leader in the mortgage industry, whether you’re running your own company, building your team, or contemplating a merger. We hope John’s story inspires you as much as it inspired us—and reminds you that in this business, putting people and culture first is always the best investment.

Thanks for listening to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros. For John Mirenda, Dave Holland, Tom Mills, and our entire team, we’ll catch you in the next episode.

Robert, Tom, & Dave

Because that's not just a mortgage thing. That, that, that should be how we live every day. And doing it that way, again, maybe it's slower growth and you don't get all the glory at once, but in the, in the long run, it's— to me, it's, it's, it's the only way and the best way to have long-lasting, long-lasting success and, and, and feeling of accomplishment and really a joy, which I still, I still have.

What happens when a company owner who's been recruited for decades finally says yes to a conversation? And what does a merger look like when the culture, people, and leadership come first? That's what we're talking on today on the next exciting episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Tom, Dave, and I are joined by the one and only John Mirenda today. Welcome in, boys.

Welcome, welcome, John. Happy to have you on.

The man, the myth, the legend.

Happy to be here. You're the only three people in the world that could convince me to be a guest on a podcast. Or Joe Rogan. It was between you guys and Joe Rogan, but I selected you three. So let's make it happen.

Hey, what I just heard is we beat out Rogan.

Absolutely.

It's so funny because before I met John, I knew his name for, I don't know, a decade. I didn't even know what he looked like. I'd never seen him anywhere. He wasn't really out there on social media. I'm like, this is Is this John Marenga? I really even exist? Heard nothing but the best about you along those 10 years though, of course.

Well, it's funny because you're like, you're, you're in the same neck of the woods, Tom. So, you know, um, I was all, I'm all the way down in Florida and I knew the name and like this mythical, you know, awesome being. So, you know, let's, let's talk about a little bit about how, who John is for those of you who may not know. John started Greentree Mortgage. He spent really over the last 30 years, um, you know, John will tell us the exact number, building just a well-respected, stable mortgage company, salt of the earth. Like, if you said, hey, describe to me what a perfect mortgage company in terms of, you know, kind of culture and respect and, you know, just good name in the market would be, that, that name would be Greentree. And ultimately, that is due large part in in with John Mirenda. Um, and it matters, right, for all the other owner-operators listening out there.

The way he did it, how he went about it, and the results, I think, are really special. So we're going to dig into that today. John, tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of, kind of the journey to build Greentree and what it looked like before we came together. Um, like, how did that look before we, us three knuckleheads, even came in the picture?

Uh, it's funny, it's Um, It's funny. funny as I reflect on it now and this whole transaction that we did has made me reflect on it a lot. My whole adult life has been spent there. I was— I started working at basically at Greentree through college and right out of college on a part-time basis, just kind of something to do and make money over the summer as I was studying. This is way, way a long time ago. Back in the late 1980s. So I really am one of the examples of somebody that started at the bottom and just kept learning and meeting people and falling in love with this business over the years where it's long stories, but over between 1989 and 1996, I was basically an employee at Green Tree. And then became president in the middle, in 1996, and then actually purchased the company in 2006.

But my whole adult life has been spent there. So I really learned the business from the bottom up. Started on a minimum wage job. I'll never forget being excited about a $30,000 a year salary. That was a big thing in my world. I just to wanted get 100. That was my, that was my goal in life, is to get to $100,000 salary just as a kid, really. So it's been, it's been, it's been an amazing, amazing experience for me, an amazing journey.

So all my blessings have definitely come from this, this crazy business.

From the mailroom to the boardroom. And you timed it perfectly when you bought the business in 2006, right? You had like 6, 6 or 9 months of of Clear Stanley and then it all fell apart?

That, you know, there's so many big moments that happened over the, over the years that made me what I am today. But the biggest ones were actually at the time were big-time negatives. And why did I do this? So, you know, I closed on this transaction to buy Greentree from the, from the previous owner with a very large debt and a note back to him on January 1st, 2006. And Besides the mortgage business, my family's the most important thing in my life. So I had my wife and 3 very young children at that time. And I thought I was on top of the world on January 1st, 2006. I never thought I would ever own a business. My parents, my grandparents were immigrants, just hard workers.

And my parents did very well for themselves, but they never owned anything. And I was just, saying, wow, John Mirenda's owning a company. This is— I've made it, you know, I'm the new, new, new real estate tycoon. And this all in my head and in my mind, you know, I don't exhibit those kinds of things to the out, but inside I really felt that way. I was so proud of myself. And like Dave said, I blinked and.

The business got crazy.

A year, I was like, what did I just do to myself and my family? I cannot believe I did this. So at the time and during those during that time in 2007, the summer of '07 and then into '08 and '09, I honestly like had thoughts of regret, you know, why did I do this? Regretting everything I you did, know, I shouldn't have done this. And that period of time was one of the two or three moments in my career that really defined me and made me into what ended up and all the blessings that I got out of this business. So it's one of my lessons that I try and tell a lot of young people, that when you're in, in, in a storm and feel like there's, there's, there's nothing you can do and it's hard to even breathe during times like that, you just have to take one little step every day and just keep getting up and doing it. And I'm a perfect example of that. And everything I learned from that moment has a lot to do with my success.

John, that's such a great story, man. Um, I love your story. And, you know, then you, you work through that tough period, '07, '08, and the '09, you know, and then turn things around. And, you know, you guys are obviously an extremely successful company for a long period of time. But, you know, you went from that feeling like, all right, I did it, I've got this business now, I've accomplished this, and then realizing, you know, it'll be fun, they said, and Then where did you start to realize, like, you know, now I've got a successful company, like this is, this is turned around, like, what was there a point? Because I know it's not about numbers to you, you know, tell me like how you defined success then, because it was long ago you achieved that.

For sure, for sure. Maybe going through, through it at that, at that period, you know, survival was, was what turned out to be a big thing. And there was a there was a website— this is going back now, I'm dating myself— you guys have heard of this, this Mortgage Implode Meter that was a big website back in that time period. And every day mortgage companies' names would pop up on there on who went out of business. So during that stressful time, I was glued to that. And it was not great advice for people. It's not the best part of your time, but that's the kind of stress that we were under, that I was under at that point. And every day that would go by, I knew my name wasn't showing up on there.

And something as simple as that and getting through that really taught me a lot about success, you know, about being stable and surviving those moments so you can position yourself to take advantage when things change. But to answer your question, Tom, it wasn't over. It was not overnight. So, once we got into the 2010 to 2015 range and I knew I had my feet back under me and somebody told me at some point that maybe 89% or 92% of the companies of my size went out of business during that time. So, it gave me some confidence that I was able to get to get through that. And that's when I started attracting very, what I consider the all-star legendary loan officers in our market. And same kind of story, you know, I would start with one and get them comfortable with what I was doing and bring them on board. And then they would tell somebody else about it.

And so it wasn't overnight. It was one at a time.. And that's when I started to change my mindset a little bit and got out of the survival mode and to say, all right, now that I survived, now I can really turn this experience into something even greater. And that was my strategy. So I did it one loan officer at a time, just like I said earlier about one day at a time. Like, I really believe in that, that you have to be in the present moment, do the best you can. And then the next day, take another step forward. So that's basically how it started.

I really concentrated on the, in my area of this business in our geographic area of getting the best of the best.

You've always done a good job at that, man. I mean, you know, that business went through a really hard time to retain. And that's probably, you know, one of the things we thought most impressive about you before even knowing you was, You know, your employees are really loyal to you. You retained at a time when companies were coming at them all and throwing them money and coming at you and throwing you money. And, you know, your teams remained, you know, there with you. And that says a lot about those relationships that you built, a lot about the success that you had. It was really, that's really your foundation, man.

Thanks. You know, well, I'm sure we'll hit on this later, but it's a common theme the four of us have, which I think is very lacking in this business, but I always saw myself as not the owner of the company and the top, the president, the top dog. I really felt myself as being a service leader to those types of individuals. And I still feel that today. I always felt like I worked for my top loan officer group, or at the minimum that I was partners with them and we were co-owners of their, of of their business. So I always had that mentality of this isn't about me, it's about them and putting them in the best position possible for them to succeed. And then good things will come back to me and the company over time. Again, it's a slower build for the company, but to me it was the right way to do it.

Yeah.

That's always been your value proposition, John, right? From 2006, 2007 on, as a servant leader, and that gets tossed around a lot. But I mean, of all the leaders I've seen there in the mortgage world, Jack, you're one of the tops of that. You really care for your folks' business.

Thanks for recognizing that, because that is important to me. And I give my parents and family a lot of credit for that, because that's not just a mortgage thing. That should be how we live every day. And doing it that way, again, maybe it's slower growth and you don't get all the glory at once, but in the long run, To me, it's, it's, it's the only way and, and, and the best way to have long-lasting, long-lasting success and, and, uh, and feeling of accomplishment and really a joy, which I still, I still in, have, uh, in, in this business and being around the people that, that I work with.

Going back to the upload-o-meter too, when I had my little company, significantly smaller than yours, just looking at that every day just gave me like a little hope. And they were never going to put me on it. But then we had, then we had after that, you know, like a legit 10 or 12 year bull run in the mortgage. But we had a couple of down years, but we had 10 was a great year. 12 was an amazing year. 16, 17, half of '19, then obviously COVID. Like we had a, we had a great 12, 15 year run.

Yes. Yes. And again, maybe other people in this, this business talk about those and that's when I had the most success, financial success and and was able to, to, to, to develop my business and develop our network of great loan officers. But again, I always go back to those times where I was at the lowest because that's what taught me to do things. One, handle handle the, the business and do well with it, but also enjoy that success even more. You know, going, going through those moments of, of, of torture, I call it in in this, this business, really does pay off at the end. But you just have to stick with it and stick with your habits and be consistent.

And that's just the business— grit and consistency day in and day out, right? That's how anybody in this business succeeds, whether you're ownership or middle management or a loan originator, you know, anywhere.

It's— yeah, think a pain heart. I it's lot of of Yep, yep, yep. I tell it. We've had that in our meetings. I always say this, you know, I'm always proud of our people and any accomplishments because this is not an easy business. I say that, I say that, say that, say it all the time. But it's a— it's It's a— a great business, but grit and servant leadership are the two things that I think are the keys to my success.

And so, you know— Success is something you definitely had, John. You built something powerful. And you know what we see a lot in this business, whether it's building a company, if you're an LO, when you have success, the quarters come a-calling, right? People want to start talking with you. And over the years, you were recruited and, approached numerous times, whether it was a merger, an acquisition, or a partnership or something along those lines. But, you know, through all, all those years and all the time, you, you weren't shopping for a partner. You, you know, you were good, you were holding tight. What, what made our conversation different? What made you kind of pause and say, hey, maybe we should talk?

Correct, Tim. Um, great question and, and a, and a great point. I'll kind of go backwards before I hit on, on what made it so good amongst the four of us before that and all those calls that I would get and opportunities. And I feel like my loan officers obviously had those kinds of calls as well, maybe felt, felt the same way. This— I hate being negative, but this business I feel like is riddled with a lot of, a lot of things that aren't great from an ownership standpoint, from a company standpoint. Point. You know, there's a lot of bait and switch in this business. There's a lot um, of, uh, levels of distrust.

And, um, I was never comfortable with that. You know, I, I didn't— I didn't— I wasn't— I didn't grow up to be a mortgage person, so I kind of learned as, as I went along and met a lot of people, you know, throughout. So I was never saying impressed, but I really wasn't impressed with big companies and, and other flashy names and things like that that would try and recruit me. And I feel like my loan officers felt the same, felt the same way. So when I met Tom, who was the first one out of the 3 of you that I met, in my first conversation with him, I realized that there was something different. And as he described your partnership and the 3 of you, it was something that was really really beautiful and felt different to me than everything else that I encountered prior to meeting you.

Okay, we're back. So we are kind of high level, guys. John is finding out this may not be Joe Rogan level podcast, but this is edited. We lost Robert. He's the best techy among us. We lost him. He's back. So we're doing a restart.

John. John, you're on a roll. Go ahead. You were talking about how I'm your favorite partner. You met Tom first. Okay, we'll restart there.

No, no problem. No problem. Yep. So when I met Tom and had my first conversation with him, it was different and it wasn't what I expected and what I normally see and what I always normally thought I normally saw in this industry. You know, Tom was, was, was, was, was real. He was transparent. He was honest. I really felt a great, a great, a different connection with him compared to what I had seen in the past from, from other mortgage companies.

And one of my favorite things about that conversation was the way he talked about Dave and Robert and the three of you together. The collaboration that you had and the culture that you built together was, was something I never had in my You career. know, from an ownership standpoint, I was always by myself and I had the greatest people and have the greatest people working with me at GreatTree that I really, I love them all. And they're extremely efficient, capable, outstanding, outstanding people to work with. But in an owner's seat, you know, you're by yourself. And I had many, many, many years of that and never thought I would ever be open to bringing somebody else in. So as Tom, I got to know Tom a little bit and it's again, as he described, Dave and Robert and your relationship, it really, it really gave me some pause to be open-minded and consider this.

And it's lonely at the top, right?

Yeah. After a long time, it's great at the top too, you know. So I never want to say that I didn't get great, great blessings from that, from, from my situation and my business. I, I, I never, I never feel that at all. But being in a situation where I was always by myself and then meeting 3 people like, like you was, was certainly a positive jolt in my life and in my career for sure.

Okay. We lost Robert again. So a little weird that he's not going to be in the rest of the podcast, but we're going to keep rolling with it. John, is that okay with you?

Sure.

The show must go on.

Yes.

Yes.

Must go on. So, you know, one of the questions we had when we were in the green room was at what point did this go from a more casual conversation to something more serious? And I would say, John, like the first time we met, I think we were all pretty serious about moving forward. We kind of met double top secret in downtown Philadelphia, right? Rittenhouse Square area. But that's, that's kind of where it got more serious. We were all pretty locked in at that point, right?

Yeah. Well, like I said, Tom, you know, I had multiple conversations with Tom and everything he said about the three of you was so positive. And when I got to meet you at that meeting, it solidified that for me. So by the time— and it wasn't days and days of talking and negotiating. I mean, we had a nice few hours few hours together, but I, um, I realized it was something different what, what, what, what you had. And I was, uh, I was extremely comfortable with, again, your, um, the way the three of you collaborated. And, uh, each of you bring, bring something to the table, and that was, uh, that was very appealing to me. At the same time, as, as I had always had that feeling that you were transparent, that you were honest, that you were people that I like and wanted to be around because for sure this is something I didn't, I didn't have to do.

So I wanted it to be a positive thing for me. And I really felt, felt, felt that. And each time I met you, met all three of you, either one-on-one or together, I felt, I felt more and more that it was the right thing to do.

Yeah, I remember, I remember it wasn't, you know, we had met really get to know, get to know one another. And, you know, I was talking to you about our vision of what we were becoming and how we like working with leaders and, you know, and, and what we want to do and the ways we wanted to be and how we wanted to, you know, the relationships we wanted to have with, with our people, our producers, our market leaders, our branch leaders, our, you know, um, and I think that, you know, I think that's kind of where we merged and, you know, our conversation started to talk about what it would, you know, look like if we parting together. And what was interesting, man, is at that point, all the— like, we never even talked numbers. Like, from that point, we had many conversations, and numbers didn't even come in play until we spent that, like, day together. We didn't even talk numbers that, that day together, right? It was like vision. It was people. It was people talk. Um, and I think, you know, the fact that we weren't hovering all over the numbers and things like that, that it means the deal didn't happen over that.

It wasn't about the numbers, you know, it was about what we saw as an opportunity, you know, for us as an organization to, you know, had an amazing leader with an amazing group of people that were clearly loyal, enjoyed working together, that had a great reputation in the market, but, you know, to take us to another level. And I think, you know, you saw the ability to, you know, being that servant leader to you know, have more for your people. And I think that's— then we just moved down to the numbers and the numbers became one of the easier, you know, parts of it, of the negotiation, really, I think.

It's funny. Yep, yep. The collaboration, you know, the culture, we fit on all those kinds of things. And that was and is the most important thing to me to make our alignment together really work. All those other things fall into place and fell into place and fall into place when you have the right people with a, with with a, a common goal. And aside from all that, you know, I was always impressed and still am to this day, you know, the three of you and how open you are to getting into the next level of this mortgage business. You know, it's always changing and you're never afraid to look at technology and what can we do together to make this company even better and better every day. And again, being by myself for, you know, for a long time, you know, when I look back, you know, I don't know that I was as great of that by myself.

I'm sure I wasn't. And that was another reason why this alignment really, really worked well for me. But the people connection and the way the three of you are as individuals, for me as a person, that's what I need. That's what I needed to open myself up to something like this. And I'm glad I did.

Yeah. And then along the way, as we, you know, started those discussions, we, you know, we didn't quite know where to begin. We didn't know what numbers should look like. You know, we weren't, you know, we were really just early on in our journey and, you know, with a mindset of partnering with great people that we wanted to work with and found that. And yeah, then, then when it came to numbers, we're like, okay, you know, we had a CFO here, really savvy, knew what he was doing, and we got some things started, started in that area. And then you know, and then I think together we, we worked on it together. It wasn't like we worked on it, we came back to you and slid a piece of paper across the table. Like, we literally went into conversation together with Ken Ritchie and, and Kaelin Ritchie.

And, and Richie May is a great, great partner to us and, and, you know, worked with us. We work with them on some other things, and we introduced you to them and, you know, decided we were going to embark on, on, on it together. Um, and that, you know, enabled us to find realize what it was like to work together because we had to work on a pretty big deal together, you know, with transparency, everything laid on the table, both sides. So we learned a lot about them.

Yeah, I love that part of it. I'm glad you reminded me that the whole Richie May thing and how you introduced me to them and I became part of your team, you know, the four of us along with Richie May, we're going to like, like you said, Tom, figure this out together. And I always felt, felt, felt part of that. But, you know, the other thing that you all said and made clear to me, you know, your questions to me weren't about, about money and making money and things like that, but it was about, John, how can we work together to keep the momentum that you've built and to keep the people that you've worked with happy and continuing to grow together in this business? That was so important to you. And that was obviously very important to me. Again, not necessarily related to money, but that was one of your biggest concerns. And I heard that loud and clear in the beginning, and that, that made me feel really good. And I knew that this was different because you were just as concerned with as I was with the future for the people that had stayed loyal to me and been with me forever.

And that was so important to you.

Yeah, I think that was always the.

Plan to not take away what Greentree built and what was special. It was always to take what you have and just enhance it. You know, and tweak it a little bit and take it to the next level on technology and some other items.

And we were, you know, we were obviously, you know, concerned and wanting to make sure that, you know, as you've done a great job retaining your, your team and they felt such loyalty to you, you know, we had to really— we ask a lot of questions about what kept them there. Why were they loyal to you? What, you know, what, what things were they asking for? What, you know, what, what What would they come to you? Because, you know, people, you know, visionaries come all the time. Hey, this company's got this, this company got that. So, you know, we really wanted to make sure that we weren't just looking to, you know, pump our chest out and say, you know, we made this deal. We're looking to do the same thing with this deal we do with every deal of people we bring in. We want to create long-term relationships and success stories together. And, you know, and we really, you know, we saw like the love you had for your company and the legacy you built and the name you built there. None of the three of us wanted to do anything to harm that.

We found, like, we found inspiration in getting behind it. We quickly decided we still wanted you to operate under that name. That was about a 3-second discussion that, you know, none of us, you know, thought anything differently on.

And I felt that. I felt that throughout that process. And that was a big thing and a smart thing from your standpoint, because it really did make me feel comfortable. These mergers, you know, that happen in this industry, you know, there's a lot of scattering and people go in different directions as they go. And you, you made it clear from the beginning, and I say the four of us made it clear to each other that that wasn't what we wanted here. What can we do together to make your, your, your, or my organization feel comfortable and part of, I'm part of the HMA family. And you, you really did this. You know, we go back to my history and all my 30 years and my accomplishments.

That's one of my biggest biggest ones, and you guys were part of it, the fact that we were able to keep everybody virtually— I'll say, uh, uh, basically 100% of our team together. That doesn't happen in this— in, in this industry. Maybe it'll happen for a week or a month or 3 months, um, but, um, you know, we, we did it. We did it. We did it. All did a great job, and that's very— makes me very, very, very proud of, uh, of of what we did. The fact that they, that they all stayed and committed to giving it a chance. And now today, basically, what is it, a year plus later, there are friendships.

And relationships that I'm pretty confident are.

Going to continue together. Everyone's production's up year over year. Everyone trusted us. Now, I will say for the record, it was touch and go for a little bit. The four of us were nervous. We were talking multiple times a day. We were in New Jersey once a week. But yeah, it all worked out.

And I think that's natural. I think that's natural. And, you know, I'd say I hear you. It all worked out. Well, it worked out because of the four of us. We worked at it. Yeah, I think we did. We really worked at that.

And that was— I would say that wasn't easy, but it was worth it. It was for me. It was worth it to go through that, that anxiety, that, that, that difficulty, you know, that to, to, to get everybody on the, on the same page. It's, it's again, I said I feel like that was part of my sacrifice to, to, to get us here. And now that we're here, it was the right thing. And my whole team, you know, feels that way.

And credit to you. You told your team, hey, trust me, you know, we're going to take this to the next level. Give me, give me 6 months. And, you know, credit to you that they did trust you and they all came with us.

Yeah, well, I think John did a good job of doing, you know, not that, you know, we act like the deal came together fairly easy, which it did, but there was a hell of a lot of due diligence done and things that, you know, I know that your word— I could tell through the transaction, you know, your word meant everything to you, and, you know, you wanted to be able to convey to your people what things were going to be and what things were going to be different and and be able to hold to that. Um, and I think, you know, even more proud than the fact that, uh, you know, because I would agree that when it was one of the greatest accomplishments, the greatest accomplishment in my career, that, you know, we, we made this thing happen together. But, you know, looking back, I think it's, you know, even greater now, a year later, as, as we, you know, as we look at it and how we're, you know, how we're moving forward together.

Yeah. It's nice how close we all are now. Feels like we've been together forever, but it certainly was.

Yeah, it's been 13 months, right? About 13 months. But it feels like we've all been together for 20 years. It genuinely does.

It really, really does. But like I said, it wasn't easy, though. Those, those couple of months, you know, what, you know, weren't— it weren't easy. And credit, credit to you three for, for providing that environment to make that happen. Because like I said, this doesn't happen. It doesn't happen like that in this industry. It really doesn't. So, very proud of it.

Well, let's fast forward. You know, we're over a year removed from us coming together. What's changed, you know, day to day? How has your business changed? How has your life changed? Like, what does that look like now that we're all partnering together?

Yeah. I feel, you know, it's a good question. And sometimes I admit I don't reflect on things enough. So, you know, I'll do my best to answer that, but it's a day-by-day thing for me. I still feel like I'm getting my legs under me. But again, the fact that I work now in this collaborative environment amongst the 4 of us, I love that. And that's been really good for me, good for me and my family. I love that I'm still involved in our team and the decision decision-making regarding our, our, uh, our division and our organization.

That you're actually— you're pretty, pretty big part of the decision-making yet for the whole organization, not just your team, man. You know, we wanted you a part of things. We, you know, I remember us talking about that. We, you know, want him involved in everything, knowing every decision. You know, he has a large group of people that, you know, he has— he leads, and they, and they look to him, and he has a voice here, and You know, that's been important to us. And you've had a great person, you know, a mentor to us many times.

I feel that. I definitely feel that. And I think my— I think it's my people, the people that work with me and alongside me feel it as well. I guess I'll answer it this way. It's again, I still have to reflect more and verbalize how it's made me feel. But the people around me and the people that work with me, have noticed and have noticeably said something, you know, that I, I've seen happier in many ways, even more engaged in the day-to-day interaction with, with my Greentree family than I was before. You know, when you're by yourself, like, like I said, in this crazy business, it's sometimes it's hard, hard to do that. And the collaboration that the, that the, that the 4 of us have together and the ability to run things by each other and for me to call somebody like, like the 3 of you and kick around alone or a question or how to handle something has been, has been great for me.

I still think I have to do a little better at it personally, you know, of, of, of enjoying, you know, some more— not time away from it, but just not worrying about things as, as, as much, getting away a little bit more, things like that. And, and I'm gonna do that. It's funny, after 30 years though, you, you get into some habits that, that, that are, that are hard, that are hard to break. But, uh, Every day I'm trying to do better each day to try and, you know, continue to grow outside that, you know, this business.

So, yeah, we all are, man. You know, work-life balance and how we spend our time outside of this business is really important to all of us. And I know, and we look at you, admire, you know, admire who you are as, you know, to your family and outside of this business as well as inside it, man. So, We want nothing but the best for you.

I appreciate it. And I feel like I said, I feel it, feel every day. There's not— I'll summarize it this way. There's not a moment that I regret anything about, about the decision to, to join forces with, with, with the three of you. And again, in this crazy business, that says a lot. That says a lot about, about— and now add me into it— about the four of us and what kind of people we are.

Oh, Robert, you're back, man. difficulties. Technical.

Yeah, technology is great when it works. You know, I blame Rachel. She sent me this fancy schmancy camera that it— like, it, it's too high def for my ugly face, so I had to change that around. But yeah, I'm back. Let's— sorry, boys.

Yeah, we're back now. But I was gonna— you know, John, as you know, we, we kind of got a good feel for, you know, one another working through that, what it was going to be like to work together. What are, what are some of the things You know, you, you look at, you know, year, year back, like, what surprised you? You know, that something you thought, you know, you wouldn't— something you didn't think about that you would see is such a benefit.

Well, thanks. Thanks for bringing that up, because I should have mentioned that earlier. The— and this is me and my team and especially our top loan officers that I always considered the all-star, the legends of our area that have worked with me and worked with me so long. There have been so many pickups. Uh, the uh, marketing, uh, aspect that you guys have brought, brought to the table, a lot of that we, we hadn't used. And, um, the whole, um, marketing, the technology that, that's come with it, those kinds of things I always wanted to, uh, put into our, our, our company but didn't have the, the bandwidth, maybe know, the, you the mindset to be able to do it. You guys brought that. And that's so— that was so different.

And the reaction that I've gotten from, again, the top of our top loan officers have been such positive energy to these kinds of changes, which again, I didn't expect that. I thought, you know, there'd be more, you know, people kind of pulling away from change and things like that. But we've all, and me included myself, not only embraced it, but love it and enjoy working with the whole, our whole family and team, team now, the, you know, the marketing department's just amazing. Um, think things like that, that, that I never really expected because I hadn't seen anything outside of my, my Greentree world. And it's been, uh, it's been great.

It's been great getting them involved in a lot of the things we're doing, behind the things we're doing, not just, you know, initiatives and technology, but culturally, you know.

Coaching, you know, coaching, you know, you guys have introduced me to coaching, you know, that and being open-minded to those things that maybe I was closed-minded about or didn't understand them, you know, and you all three of you did such a great job You explaining. just weren't exposed to it.

You weren't to exposed it. You and your teams weren't exposed to it and everyone was a little hesitant at first and then to your credit.

It's been awesome.

You got behind it. Everyone jumped in with both feet.

Yeah, yeah. Again, another thing I'm proud of.

It's been awesome to watch everybody just embrace it and to, you know, really see the benefits and the results that have come from the various aspects. Your team has done a phenomenal job.

And with all that, Robert, we didn't lose all the great things that we loved about our relationship at Greentree and everything. I said this the day I told everybody at Greentree, and I still say it today, we got the best of both worlds. You know, we still have the the great culture and community and love amongst us at the Greentree family. Now we've been exposed to all these other great things which have only made us better. So it's been wonderful.

Well, that's both sides because we're without question a better organization today than we were, you know, 12 months ago before you all joined us. Without a doubt.

No doubt.

Love that.

All right, gentlemen, listen, I'm gonna have to— like, this is one I'm excited to watch because I missed some of it because of stupid technology, right? We're, we're gonna, we're gonna give our podcast crew, uh, some work on the editing floor with this one.

Oh, Robert, Robert missed the part when John talked about me being the favorite partner.

I believe— I know that's not true. There's no way that's true.

So Robert's gonna parachute in and then shut down the podcast.

Is that what's gonna happen right now?

I mean, listen, our editor, our producer just gave me the bring it home note. So I'm supposed to— I'm just doing what I'm told.

Thanks for humor. That's John.

John, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Enjoyed every second of it.

Listen, we always want to— we always try to have one concrete kind of takeaway here, right? That is kind of apropos with what the subject matter we're talking about. So I'm going to one last question, then we're going to wrap it up. If you were talking to any other owner-operator in the country, which you are, and they're listening and, you know, they, they're curious, but maybe, you know, a little uncomfortable, a little, you know, apprehensive. What's the one thing you'd want them to hear from your experience? What's kind of the one takeaway you would tell them?

Yeah, I would say be open to a discussion. To, uh, you know, meet us, uh, as a team and be open to it. Because sometimes in this— again, this crazy, very difficult business— you close your mind to things that— and opportunities that are out there. You can have the best of all worlds, and I'm a perfect example of that. Um, I've never thought I would have been happier in an environment like this versus being by myself, but I really am. So Be open to these kinds of discussions. Open your heart to these kinds of things, and you'll make the right decision, whether it's joining an organization like ours or not. But be open to it, and good things will come of it.

That's awesome, man. And that's for every facet of life, right? I think sometimes about how one conversation can change your world, change your entire just future. So it's been awesome, John. Thanks for joining us. Uh, for Dave Holland, Tom Mills, I'm Robert Filial with, uh, Lending Leadership with The Mortgage Pros. Thanks so much, guys.

Thanks, John.

Thanks, John.