TRIGGER WARNING: In this episode, Steven shares about a sexual assault as a child and how it impacted his life.

On this episode of The Life Shift Podcast, Steven Wilson shares his powerful journey of overcoming the trauma of sexual assault and the subsequent battles with mental illness, including bipolar disorder and depression. He reflects on how the shame of his experience led him to keep his story hidden for over 30 years, affecting his life in profound ways.

As he discusses his early struggles, including a severe depressive episode in childhood and the lack of support during that time, he emphasizes the critical need for compassion and understanding for those facing mental health challenges.

Steven's story is not just about personal survival; it’s also about his mission to help others navigate their own struggles through support groups and outreach. His book, "Teetering on a Tightrope," serves as a beacon of hope, inspiring those who feel alone in their experiences and showing that recovery is possible, even after deep pain.

Takeaways:

• Steve's journey illustrates the long-term effects of childhood trauma and the difficulty of sharing such experiences.
• He emphasizes the importance of support from loved ones for those dealing with mental health issues.
• Steve's experience demonstrates how mental health journeys can be complex, requiring patience and tailored approaches.
• Steve's commitment to helping others through support groups showcases the power of community in healing.

Steve Wilson, the Author of "Teetering On A Tightrope, my bipolar journey," was born in Delaware, Ohio, and now resides in Scottsdale, Arizona, with his wife, Lenni. They have been married for 51 years and have three daughters and two granddaughters. Steve spent 50 years in the custom clothing business. He retired in 2019. In 1978, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It was not until 2000 that he was able to conquer the disorder. Since 2015, he has facilitated two mental health support groups. In 2024, he appeared on 30+ podcasts describing his journey and raising mental health awareness. One main focus is to discuss the inadequacy of government programs and the damage done by insurance companies when providing mental health care.

Teetering on a Tightrope: https://www.amazon.com/Teetering-Tightrope-My-Bipolar-Journey-ebook/dp/B0BTJ9DHNN

Resources: To listen in on more conversations about pivotal moments that changed lives forever, subscribe to "The Life Shift" on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate the show 5 stars and leave a review! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

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Steve: 00:00:34

For a long time, I never thought about it.

Steve: 00:00:36

I would say from the minute I walked out of the room where he assaulted me, I went up to the theater, sat down with my buddy who'd gone to the movie with me.

Steve: 00:00:47

Never thought of it for years.

Steve: 00:00:49

It just blocked.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:00:50

Today's guest is Stephen W.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:00:51

Wilson, and he shares a really hard moment in his early life when he was just a kid, when he was sexually assaulted in a movie theater.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:02

And this was in a time period where people were not this up, and he really pushed this down.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:08

And this was something that really affected him as he grew up naturally, as we would imagine it would.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:15

And so he shares these pivotal moments that really defined his journey after that, including ones that manifested and showed his battle with bipolar disorder and depression and the things that he did because of those things, and how he found a way to navigate life with that and using medication.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:38

And now he is a beacon of hope for others that are battling mental illness.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:44

He has written a book.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:01:45

He works with other groups of people and talks through mental illness concerns and really just helping others through these support groups, showing his strength and his compassion and how he can use his story that's not just about overcoming adversity, but about the courage to share his truth and inspire and uplift others.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:07

So I know there's a lot of hard topics within this conversation, but I hope that you will take some inspiration or some little nugget of how you can support others that may be battling mental illness with you after listening to Stephen's story today.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:25

So without further ado, here is my conversation with Stephen W.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:30

Wilson.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:31

I'm Mack YL Hooley, and this is the Life Shift candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:48

Hello, my friends.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:49

Welcome to the Life Shift podcast.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:50

I am here with Steve.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:52

Hello, Steve.

Steve: 00:02:53

Hi, man.

Steve: 00:02:54

How you doing?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:55

Pretty good.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:56

Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:02:59

This has been a journey that I never knew that I needed and I never expected.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:04

But for anyone listening, that's brand new to the Life Shift Podcast.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:07

This show really stems from my own personal experience.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:10

When I was 8, my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:13

And at that moment in time, my parents were divorced, live states apart, and I lived mostly with my mom.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:19

And at that moment, everything in my life changed from what it was to something that no one could have expected.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:27

Kind of like a blank slate.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:28

And growing up, I just was like, do other people have these singular moments in their lives in which everything kind of changes?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:34

Turns out people have lots of them, but that one was very significant to me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:39

So I've had the fortune of Talking to over 150 people now about these line in the sand type moments in which one day to the next, everything kind of changes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:50

So I just am so thankful that so many strangers like yourself, Steve, are willing to have this conversation.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:03:57

Because my real goal is that there's someone out there maybe feeling super alone in their circumstance, and they hear somebody's story and they feel, oh, I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:04:08

And then they feel hope or inspiration to move through it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:04:11

So once again, thank you for wanting to be a part of this.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:04:14

tle bit about who Steve is in: 2024

Steve: 00:04:20

Well, I am retired.

Steve: 00:04:24

I spent the majority of my life in the custom clothing business.

Steve: 00:04:32

I have been married for 52 years to my wife, Lenny.

Steve: 00:04:38

We have three daughters, two granddaughters.

Steve: 00:04:42

We live most of our married lives in Delaware, Ohio, just outside Columbus.

Steve: 00:04:49

For a while, I was the sports information director at Ohio Wesleyan.

Steve: 00:04:55

And: 1958

Steve: 00:05:07

Guy came up to me, asked me for some help.

Steve: 00:05:10

Then he raped me.

Steve: 00:05:11

He threw me up against a wall and he choked.

Steve: 00:05:14

Now, it seems to be similar for what I felt to what a lot of people feel who have an occurrence like that.

Steve: 00:05:22

And I was scared and lonely and lost, but I also felt somehow it was my fault.

Steve: 00:05:33

Why did he pick me?

Steve: 00:05:34

Did I have a glow about me that said, come get me?

Steve: 00:05:38

I don't know.

Steve: 00:05:38

But I decided not to tell anybody.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:42

Yeah.

Steve: 00:05:42

And I didn't for 30.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:43

30.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:44

Wow.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:44

So you kept that inside.

Steve: 00:05:46

Kept it inside.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:47

I'm so sorry that you experienced that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:49

It's something that we would never wish on our worst enemy.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:53

Something like that into a child.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:05:55

I can imagine why and how you absorbed, like, some kind of shame that you should not have.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:01

That was not something that you should have taken on.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:03

But I would imagine also at the time period people weren't like, had you shared that, what would society have, you know, how would society have responded in that way as well?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:14

Do you think, does that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:15

Do you think that plays into it?

Steve: 00:06:17

They would have said, I'm making it up, that it never happened.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:20

Right.

Steve: 00:06:20

Like, people don't do that a long time ago.

Steve: 00:06:22

And it's.

Steve: 00:06:23

It's getting better today.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:26

Yeah.

Steve: 00:06:26

But back then, there was not even any help for a young kid like me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:32

Right.

Steve: 00:06:32

Who'd gone through that situation.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:34

Did you tell no one?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:35

You said you didn't tell anyone for 30 years.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:37

Not a soul.

Steve: 00:06:37

No.

Steve: 00:06:38

idn't even tell my wife until: 2015

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:42

Wow.

Steve: 00:06:42

Well, I mean, for over 40 years at that time.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:45

And you kept that a secret because of the shame that you absorbed?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:50

Not rightfully so, but because of that or just.

Steve: 00:06:53

Well, I wouldn't say that's the reason.

Steve: 00:06:55

I would say I just shut it out of my mind.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:06:59

Fair trauma response, right?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:01

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:01

But it was still probably sitting there.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:03

Right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:03

Because I would imagine that somehow affects you in some way.

Steve: 00:07:06

Def.

Steve: 00:07:08

What happened very quickly, within three or four months, I was in fourth grade and I didn't know what the hell was happening.

Steve: 00:07:16

Ended up I was having my first depressive episode.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:20

Yeah.

Steve: 00:07:22

It lasted for several months.

Steve: 00:07:24

I didn't know what the hell was going on.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:27

Yeah.

Steve: 00:07:27

I felt.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:27

What were some of the things that were happening?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:07:29

Just the way you were feeling.

Steve: 00:07:30

You know, it's very difficult to describe the feeling because most people don't understand it.

Steve: 00:07:38

They'll tell you, oh, go read a book.

Steve: 00:07:40

Take a bite.

Steve: 00:07:41

Right.

Steve: 00:07:41

But anyway, it was like feeling worthless, like, I'm worth nothing.

Steve: 00:07:47

I don't have any love to share.

Steve: 00:07:49

I don't have anybody loving me.

Steve: 00:07:50

Later on, it became suicidal ideations.

Steve: 00:07:54

And at the time when I had this, unfortunately, I didn't realize that it was on a kind of like a roller coaster ride where I would go from depression for however long my cycle was, right.

Steve: 00:08:10

And I'd get better and things would go all right, and then I'd fall back into that depressive state again.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:16

So it was like deep, deep.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:17

And then you'd be fine again.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:19

Kind of like dismiss it and then go back deep into that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:23

Or did you have these eyes?

Steve: 00:08:25

I would not say I was fine again, but I was a lot better.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:29

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:30

So it wasn't as dire.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:32

Maybe in that sense it was better than that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:35

Okay.

Steve: 00:08:36

But things started happening to me.

Steve: 00:08:40

I would get physical aches and pains.

Steve: 00:08:45

I would feel like the flu.

Steve: 00:08:47

Although I never had a head, I mean, temperature or anything.

Steve: 00:08:51

It was just all of a sudden these body things came up.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:08:56

Yeah.

Steve: 00:08:57

And that is fairly normal from trauma like that.

Steve: 00:09:01

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:02

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:03

I talk depressed from being depressed, but I would also venture to say that this trauma that you experienced as that young child, some of that, when you push that down, I would imagine that can play itself into a physical manifestation of your body kind of feeling that way too, because I talked to someone about.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:22

He was sexually abused as a.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:24

I think a 6 year old.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:26

And he pushed it down and about at 23, he, like, on a dime, turned in a.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:33

In a sense where his body started, like, chronic pain in certain areas, and there was, like, no way out of it, like, no relief from it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:42

Turns out he figured he remembered then about the trauma that he had pushed down.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:46

So it sounds like that's probably something very similar to what your body was reacting to, in a way.

Steve: 00:09:52

I would say so, yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:54

And at those moments, do you think back to that trauma?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:58

Is that something that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:09:59

That you pushed out far enough that you kind of didn't think about it a lot, or was that something that was just always there for a long time?

Steve: 00:10:06

I never thought about it.

Steve: 00:10:07

I would say from the minute I walked out of the room where he assaulted me.

Steve: 00:10:13

I went up to the theater, sat down with my buddy who'd gone to the movie with me.

Steve: 00:10:17

Never thought of it for years.

Steve: 00:10:19

It just blocked.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:20

So that's like your body was protecting you in some way or was trying to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:24

Your mind was.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:25

I guess I should say you're protecting you and your.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:28

Then months later, trying to remind you of that in a way.

Steve: 00:10:32

Right.

Steve: 00:10:32

With that, I would say that I found no connection at that time and for a long time with the sexual assault and my depression.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:44

Oh, okay.

Steve: 00:10:44

So I had no one to talk.

Steve: 00:10:46

No.

Steve: 00:10:46

There were no professionals I could talk to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:49

Right.

Steve: 00:10:49

And what would my parents know?

Steve: 00:10:51

They wouldn't know anything.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:52

Was the family life at home, was that semi normal?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:10:56

Or was that like a happy family life and therefore making your depressive moments feel like, why am I feeling this way?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:03

Or did you have some issues there too?

Steve: 00:11:05

Well, it was a normal life.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:07

Okay.

Steve: 00:11:09

And the issues within my family towards me didn't come up until years later.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:17

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:18

So this, like, when you're going through fourth grade.

Steve: 00:11:21

Mm.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:21

On the outside, life is seemingly normal for a fourth grader.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:26

Yet here you are feeling like.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:28

Like these adult feelings of depression and why do I exist?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:33

What do I offer the world?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:34

And so this is.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:35

This is probably pretty detrimental to your growth here.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:39

Right?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:39

Like, did you find it challenging to just go through life at that point or did you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:44

Like, how does that affect your day to day?

Steve: 00:11:45

Well, it really didn't affect effect except for the thoughts.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:11:50

Okay.

Steve: 00:11:51

I'll tell you other things that happened.

Steve: 00:11:53

I was a stellar student right after it happened, and I went into depression.

Steve: 00:11:58

I could no longer study.

Steve: 00:12:00

My grades dropped like hell.

Steve: 00:12:03

I didn't want to play with my friends.

Steve: 00:12:05

It was.

Steve: 00:12:06

It was bad.

Steve: 00:12:07

I just was feeling worthless.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:09

How do you move through that?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:10

Like, how do you continue on?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:13

Because you're here now and you've made it a far away.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:16

How does that build in you or how do you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:18

How do you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:19

How do you move through that?

Steve: 00:12:20

Well, it was a hell of a long process.

Steve: 00:12:23

You're talking.

Steve: 00:12:24

I was nine at the time.

Steve: 00:12:27

You're talking 50 years to where I was able to become 80% better.

Steve: 00:12:38

It was a.

Steve: 00:12:39

It was a strange period for me between seventh grade and college.

Steve: 00:12:46

College.

Steve: 00:12:47

That's when the depression really took over me.

Steve: 00:12:51

It came in waves.

Steve: 00:12:52

So I'd have.

Steve: 00:12:53

I might even have a year.

Steve: 00:12:54

That was good.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:55

Oh, wow.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:12:56

Okay.

Steve: 00:12:56

I might have two months.

Steve: 00:12:57

But things changed for a while.

Steve: 00:13:00

I was gone back to a top student.

Steve: 00:13:03

And then basically somewhere along 9th grade, the depression got hold of me and it was really bad.

Steve: 00:13:09

I had to cheat to be able to pass my schoolwork.

Steve: 00:13:14

Now, I want to tell you how you can understand how bad this was.

Steve: 00:13:18

After my 8th grade year, I was 8th scholastically in the class out of 210.

Steve: 00:13:24

By the time I was out, I was somewhere between 180 and 200.

Steve: 00:13:32

So you can see that I no longer had the ability to do anything requiring work and school or anything else.

Steve: 00:13:47

And so, as I said, I became cheating.

Steve: 00:13:50

That's how I got through.

Steve: 00:13:52

And then I went to college and I was better.

Steve: 00:13:56

Well, I'll tell you why.

Steve: 00:13:57

Because I was away from home and it was new and exciting and it was in Florida, so I felt pretty good.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:03

Yeah, it was a chance to start a new.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:06

Maybe a chance to start anew.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:08

Like a.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:09

Like a new ver.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:10

You could be someone new.

Steve: 00:14:12

And then when I graduated from college, that's when the deep, deep, horrible depression when I was suicidal came into being.

Steve: 00:14:24

And I finally found a psychiatrist.

Steve: 00:14:27

He diagnosed me as clinically depressed.

Steve: 00:14:31

And for eight years they threw medications at me when I also spent three weeks in a mental hospital because I tried to kill my father.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:41

Was this because of a.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:42

Like a triggered moment or was it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:14:44

You were just so deep into a cycle.

Steve: 00:14:47

I told you that family things started coming up later.

Steve: 00:14:52

And it became very clear to me that my father basically didn't care much for me.

Steve: 00:14:59

And one night we were at a barbecue and he really pissed me off, so I picked up a knife and was going to stab him.

Steve: 00:15:06

And then luckily, my mind told me and I went into the mental hospital then.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:10

Oh, wow.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:11

So did other people.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:12

Was that your own doing of going into that mental hospital because you knew, or did other people kind of?

Steve: 00:15:17

No, I did it myself.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:18

Good.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:19

Good on you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:20

I mean, that's big.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:20

Luckily.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:21

Yeah, luckily.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:22

But also like, that takes a strength that when you're in a moment like that that a lot of people don't have.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:29

So I mean, I hope you commend yourself for making that decision because that is absolutely.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:34

Is huge.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:35

Because I would venture to say that a lot of people don't or are unable to be that strong for themselves.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:41

Did that, did that help that little stay there, help like reset anything, or did you?

Steve: 00:15:46

Yes, it did.

Steve: 00:15:46

The suicidal ideations were gone after that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:15:50

Really?

Steve: 00:15:51

Why?

Steve: 00:15:51

I never came back.

Steve: 00:15:52

I've never had a suicidal thought since then.

Steve: 00:15:55

And that was: 1971

Steve: 00:16:00

Wow.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:00

And how long were you there?

Steve: 00:16:01

Three weeks.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:02

Three weeks.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:03

And was this, do you think it was like a nice little reset or was it some medication or was it some programs that they did or just getting away?

Steve: 00:16:11

Well, it was all the above.

Steve: 00:16:12

I was never on any medication until I went into the hospital, got it, and I, for the first time in quite a while, I felt safe.

Steve: 00:16:23

Hmm.

Steve: 00:16:25

Health for myself.

Steve: 00:16:27

And after that, after I got out of the hospital and I was still told I was clinically depressed, none of the other medications that they had back time at that time for depression worked.

Steve: 00:16:40

They'd make me sick.

Steve: 00:16:42

It was horrible.

Steve: 00:16:43

So one day, six years later, my psychiatrist came in and said, you know, I made a mistake on your diagnosis.

Steve: 00:16:49

You're bipolar.

Steve: 00:16:51

I said, what the hell's bipolar?

Steve: 00:16:52

Never heard of it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:53

Right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:53

When is this?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:54

The 70s, you say 70s?

Steve: 00:16:56

Early 78.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:58

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:58

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:16:58

So people probably weren't talking about that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:17:01

It was probably more in books than anything else, right?

Steve: 00:17:03

Yeah, I never heard of it.

Steve: 00:17:05

Yeah, so he explained it to me.

Steve: 00:17:08

And basically what it is, is there's two type of bipolar disorder.

Steve: 00:17:13

One is called bipolar one and it manifests itself in deep depression and then zooms up to out of control mania.

Steve: 00:17:26

That's when you see people just spend all their money, they ruin their lives, they get in terrible debt, and then they come crashing down.

Steve: 00:17:36

They've lost their family, they've lost their friends, they've lost everything they had.

Steve: 00:17:41

That was not or is not what I have.

Steve: 00:17:44

I have bipolar 2, which is deep, deep depression, which goes in waves.

Steve: 00:17:52

And when I get out of the depression, I will be pretty well in control.

Steve: 00:17:58

But many times it goes into what's called hypomania, which is a mania that's in between depression and all out mania.

Steve: 00:18:08

To describe what has happened in my life when I was in a hypomanic state, I took my wife a few years ago to buy a car for her.

Steve: 00:18:18

I already had a car just Bought it a year ago.

Steve: 00:18:20

Nothing wrong with it.

Steve: 00:18:21

So when she bought her car, I looked over and I said, I'll take that one too.

Steve: 00:18:26

Now that's not full blown mania.

Steve: 00:18:29

But why would I do that?

Steve: 00:18:30

Because I was in hypomania.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:18:32

Interesting.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:18:33

Is it helpful to know, like, is it helpful to know that, like, are you aware when you're in a state or is it okay, so you're not fully.

Steve: 00:18:42

I am now.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:18:44

Okay.

Steve: 00:18:45

Because I got trauma therapy a few years ago and I look back on my life and we went through everything and saw what was going on.

Steve: 00:18:55

And so I understand it a whole hell of a lot better now.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:18:58

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:18:59

So, like, when you're going through your waves, you're able to self identify.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:19:03

Okay, I'm in this state right now.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:19:06

Here's how I, as an individual, Steve, can process this particular moment in life.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:19:12

Is that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:19:12

Is that kind of how life unfolds?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:19:14

Now?

Steve: 00:19:14

Going on about what happened when I was diagnosed bipolar, they switched medications and put me on lithium.

Steve: 00:19:23

And when they put me on lithium, I got 50% better overnight, practically.

Steve: 00:19:29

Wow.

Steve: 00:19:29

And I was able to resume my life.

Steve: 00:19:31

I screwed up everything.

Steve: 00:19:33

Even after that, I couldn't keep a job.

Steve: 00:19:35

Made a lot of mistakes, did a whole bunch of stuff that was bad, but I wasn't in a very bad depression at the time.

Steve: 00:19:44

I was pretty much in control, but my mind had racing thoughts.

Steve: 00:19:48

I couldn't shut my mind down.

Steve: 00:19:50

So as I said, I couldn't keep a job.

Steve: 00:19:52

And the owner reached.

Steve: 00:19:53

Only way I was able to support myself was because my family owned a good sized clothing business.

Steve: 00:20:00

And I went into the business with them.

Steve: 00:20:03

And the big reason I did that was because I felt safe.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:06

Right.

Steve: 00:20:07

I was offered a job.

Steve: 00:20:09

I'd been a sports information director at Ohio Wesland University.

Steve: 00:20:15

And after my first year, I was only there for filling in for a year.

Steve: 00:20:21

And after that, they came to me and said, I want you to go.

Steve: 00:20:24

We'd like you to go to Ohio University and their sports management program and come back to us and take over the whole thing.

Steve: 00:20:32

Great job, great opportunity.

Steve: 00:20:35

Couldn't do it.

Steve: 00:20:36

Scared, unfamiliar.

Steve: 00:20:38

I would have failed miserably.

Steve: 00:20:40

So that ruined what at the time, would have been a tremendous thing I always wanted to do.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:45

And was that before or after the diagnosis of bipolar?

Steve: 00:20:49

That was before.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:50

Before.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:50

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:51

Do you think that you would have made different decisions had you already had that diagnosis by then?

Steve: 00:20:55

If I'd been on lithium, I would have, yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:20:58

What does the lithium do for you?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:00

Does it just level things out or does it shrink the Curve a little bit.

Steve: 00:21:04

It takes away a lot of the depression.

Steve: 00:21:06

Now I'm not honored anymore because it ruined my kidney, I would imagine, and I had to have a kidney transplant.

Steve: 00:21:12

That was years later, 20 years later.

Steve: 00:21:15

And anybody who hears that should know that I would not have changed and gone off of lithium anytime before that because I was feeling normal.

Steve: 00:21:25

I didn't want to.

Steve: 00:21:25

The worst thing for me was to ever go back into that deep, deep suicidal depression.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:30

Right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:31

When you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:32

And you also mentioned that when you were in that mental health hospital for the three weeks, like you haven't had suicidal thoughts since then, was any of that experience, I hate to jump back that far, but was any of that experience like one of the first times where you saw other people that felt like you and like you felt a little less alone in that, like.

Steve: 00:21:51

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:51

Depression scene in a way, almost.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:55

And I wonder if any of that triggered the sense like, okay, well maybe it's not.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:21:59

I'm not the only one that is in this dire situation and then therefore the kind of the suicidal ideation subsides a little because, you know, you're not alone.

Steve: 00:22:07

Yes, absolutely.

Steve: 00:22:08

And also this is a very specialized hospital.

Steve: 00:22:12

I went into in Columbus and did a lot of things.

Steve: 00:22:19

Art therapy, physical therapy, all these phys.

Steve: 00:22:23

All these things helped me a bunch.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:26

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:27

And none of the trauma from when you were nine came up in any of those situations in the hospital?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:33

Yeah, sure they did.

Steve: 00:22:34

We had therapy and one on one therapy.

Steve: 00:22:37

I was going into therapy three times a week.

Steve: 00:22:40

I was so bad at that time.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:42

Okay.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:43

And it was all.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:44

And so you were unpacking some of that trauma from your nine year old experience?

Steve: 00:22:49

No.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:50

Okay.

Steve: 00:22:50

So I bought it out.

Steve: 00:22:52

I never even told the psychiatrist or the.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:54

Okay, so there.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:22:54

That never came up in that mental health stay or anything that was like 50 years later in which you were.

Steve: 00:23:00

Well, I'll tell you what happened because psychiatrists, therapists are great, but they screw up from time to time because they're.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:08

Human, I guess, right?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:10

Yes.

Steve: 00:23:10

But anyway, they.

Steve: 00:23:13

In about: 1985

Steve: 00:23:22

Thought a lot of him had never told him about what happened to me.

Steve: 00:23:26

So I went into this session and I decided to tell him.

Steve: 00:23:30

He ignored it, wouldn't talk about it.

Steve: 00:23:33

Now he was a lot older than me.

Steve: 00:23:36

Maybe his upbringing said a man or a kid won't get raped or whatever, but he just glossed over it and that set me back another 15 year.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:48

It's like, I can't bring this up because, yeah, I Guess no one really does care.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:53

He was kind of like proving the point right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:55

That you hoped he wouldn't.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:23:56

So like, as, as a nine year old, you probably felt that that's why you didn't bring it up then.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:01

You know, I mean, I know you push it down, but like a sense of like, I'm not going to say anything because no one's going to believe me and people are going to push away and dismiss it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:08

And here you go, being open and bold to someone that should listen and acknowledge and help.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:15

And he also does what you expected everyone to do so many years prior.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:20

That's, I'm, I'm sorry that that happened to you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:23

It's a, it's a shame.

Steve: 00:24:24

Yeah.

Steve: 00:24:24

He really screwed up badly then and we never brought it up again.

Steve: 00:24:28

And he never.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:30

And you kept seeing him and you kept seeing him after that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:34

Okay.

Steve: 00:24:34

He died two or three years later.

Steve: 00:24:38

But I did keep seeing him.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:39

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:40

Well, yeah, that's, it's, it's interesting because I don't know if you've experienced this too in your therapy journey as well.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:47

Like, it took me, it took me about 20 years to grieve the loss of my mother in a way that I feel properly.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:24:55

And when I was ready to do so, reaching out to therapists because of depression, anxiety, all the things that I'm sure, because I push things down kind of just manifested in, in Mexico.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:05

But it took me like five or six people, you know, to go through, like try out this therapist.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:11

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:11

For a couple months.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:13

Doesn't feel right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:14

Dismisses things that I think they shouldn't.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:16

Not as drastic as, as what you had, but it did.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:19

It took me like six people to get through.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:21

And like, I can imagine there's tons of people out there that just quit after the first one.

Steve: 00:25:25

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:25:26

You know, and that sucks.

Steve: 00:25:27

egue into the fact that since: 2015

Steve: 00:25:43

And it has really opened up my eyes to what all of these people go through.

Steve: 00:25:50

I had overall very good therapy.

Steve: 00:25:53

There are so many people out there.

Steve: 00:25:55

Because of the way.

Steve: 00:25:57

Well, most of my people, I would say, are on disability.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:26:01

The people you work with now in my group.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:26:04

Okay.

Steve: 00:26:04

Because they have no other way to get therapy.

Steve: 00:26:07

The insurance companies have, do everything they can to shut down mental health claims, so.

Steve: 00:26:15

And if they can't shut them down, they make the professional psychiatrists and therapists charge so much that 50% of the people who are Mentally ill.

Steve: 00:26:25

And by the way, I want to throw out a figure.

Steve: 00:26:27

Now.

Steve: 00:26:27

60 million people in the United States have a mental illness.

Steve: 00:26:34

That's 20%.

Steve: 00:26:36

So.

Steve: 00:26:37

And the statistics also say that out of those 60 million, 30 million get no treatment or.

Steve: 00:26:44

Oh, I believe that they can only get treatment through disability.

Steve: 00:26:49

And disability offers them clinics that are completely overrun with sufferers and is a terrible solution.

Steve: 00:27:00

And then disability, which is now just out of source, they pay people.

Steve: 00:27:07

And this doesn't just have to be mental illness.

Steve: 00:27:09

It can be a lot of other reasons people go on disability.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:27:13

Right.

Steve: 00:27:13

The top amount you can make is about $20,000 a year if you want to.

Steve: 00:27:18

If one of these people wants to supplement their income and they go out of get a job, say they get a part time job making $15,000 a year.

Steve: 00:27:28

Well, what does disability do?

Steve: 00:27:30

They come in and say, well, you're making over that 20,000, so you don't get disability anymore.

Steve: 00:27:36

So they cut them off.

Steve: 00:27:38

And now a guy who was getting 20,000 from disability is only making 15,000.

Steve: 00:27:43

So in my estimation, it is a real joke.

Steve: 00:27:46

And I know this because people consistently talk about it in my groups.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:27:51

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:27:52

And you started these groups because of your experiences?

Steve: 00:27:56

Yes, yes.

Steve: 00:27:57

And also in about the year: 1995

Mack YL Hooley: 00:28:05

Yeah.

Steve: 00:28:05

And I started speaking to high school psychology classes in and out in and around Ohio.

Steve: 00:28:14

And you know that statistic I gave you that it was 20% were mentally ill?

Steve: 00:28:20

Well, that includes students, young adults.

Steve: 00:28:24

They're also 20% mentally mental problems.

Steve: 00:28:28

So I began talking to high school classes.

Steve: 00:28:34

And what I found was that the schools have no good programs for helping these people.

Steve: 00:28:44

They don't understand what these kids are going through.

Steve: 00:28:47

The kids are under and a tremendous amount of pressure.

Steve: 00:28:51

If they're good students and good athletes, their parents and everybody else are pushing them to be better, better, better.

Steve: 00:28:58

So I would hold, after my talks, I would hold a special session where anybody who wanted to come up and talk to me, I would be glad to hear their story.

Steve: 00:29:09

Yeah, this one girl one time came up to me and said, I am number one student.

Steve: 00:29:14

She was a senior.

Steve: 00:29:15

I am one of the best athletes in the school.

Steve: 00:29:19

And I am so much under so much pressure from my parents, from my coaches, from my teachers, that I want to kill myself.

Steve: 00:29:26

Right after that, another girl came up.

Steve: 00:29:29

She was different.

Steve: 00:29:31

She was in the middle, scholastically.

Steve: 00:29:33

She was.

Steve: 00:29:34

I don't even know if she was an athlete at all.

Steve: 00:29:36

But she said, I have no friends, nobody likes me.

Steve: 00:29:39

I feel terrible.

Steve: 00:29:40

I want to kill Myself, nothing I could do other than to tell them where to get help.

Steve: 00:29:45

Yeah, but the schools don't do anything about it, or they do very little.

Steve: 00:29:49

Now, that was 20, 25 years ago.

Steve: 00:29:52

Today it is better, but not great.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:29:56

Yeah, well, something about that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:29:59

I feel like that example is the power of story and the power of permission.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:05

Like, you came in, told your story, probably were more vulnerable than some of the people that they've ever heard from before, and they felt seen, heard, safe to come up to you and tell you their deepest, darkest secret because no one else they knew because their parents were pressuring them and this and that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:25

And if they had said that to any of them, they probably would have been dismissed like you were by your therapist in that moment.

Steve: 00:30:31

And so the sad thing about that is I have no idea what happened after they left.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:36

I'm sure you made an impact.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:38

I'm sure that something you said.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:40

I don't know about you, but the first times I've ever, like, said something out loud, maybe like when I was trying to grieve my mother and how I felt about that or something stupid that I felt in my head, it wasn't stupid, but something that I felt was stupid inside.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:56

And I said it out loud.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:30:57

It kind of lightened the load a little bit.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:31:00

And my.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:31:01

My hope is that those young ladies that spoke to you, they said it out loud, they heard it, they processed it, they heard your story, and they felt inspired to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:31:10

To move through it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:31:11

And I would hope, because there is some power in releasing that from.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:31:16

I'm sure you feel this too, like, letting some steam out of the valve, you know, like, all that stuff bottled up for me is much scarier in my head than it is when I say it out loud or when I put it on paper or something along those lines.

Steve: 00:31:30

So let's turn the table and go to the flip side of when nothing works for these people.

Steve: 00:31:41

As I said, I've been doing these three groups for nine years now.

Steve: 00:31:45

I've had two people kill themselves in my groups.

Steve: 00:31:49

And three days ago, one of my group members, who is about 28 or 30 and suffering badly from her illness, her best friend killed herself.

Steve: 00:32:04

So now this girl is in even more imminent danger, reacting to her best friend killing herself and everything else that's happening to her.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:32:14

Yeah.

Steve: 00:32:15

So not everybody makes it through.

Steve: 00:32:17

I don't know why.

Steve: 00:32:18

This one girl who was in my group was about 25.

Steve: 00:32:23

She was going for a master's in college.

Steve: 00:32:27

She was very depressed, and she said, I'll never hurt myself because I love my grandmother so much or her mother, whatever one.

Steve: 00:32:37

And I won't do anything because I'm taking care of her.

Steve: 00:32:40

The next week she killed herself.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:32:43

Oh, yeah.

Steve: 00:32:45

It is horrible what these people go through and what I went through.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:32:49

Yeah.

Steve: 00:32:50

But as I always wrote, as I wrote in my book, there's always hope.

Steve: 00:32:54

It's a long, long journey.

Steve: 00:32:56

Can't get.

Steve: 00:32:57

There is no cure for any of this, by the way.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:00

Right.

Steve: 00:33:02

But you can get better and live a productive life.

Steve: 00:33:06

That's one of the big themes of my book.

Steve: 00:33:09

And I hope it gets through to some people.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:11

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:12

Do you feel that it's, it's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:13

What do you think it is?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:14

What do you think that the trick is?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:16

Because, is it being heard?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:18

Is it tools?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:20

Is it a little bit of everything?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:21

Is it understanding?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:23

Is it medicine?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:24

What do you think that the key is?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:33:26

Or is the key different for everyone?

Steve: 00:33:28

Well, the key is different for everyone.

Steve: 00:33:30

Patient only works in.

Steve: 00:33:35

50% of the patients believe that.

Steve: 00:33:38

So there are things you can do.

Steve: 00:33:40

And I just had.

Steve: 00:33:41

Just gave a talk on this to my groups the other night.

Steve: 00:33:45

There are therapies that people can do if medication is working.

Steve: 00:33:49

They can supplement it with these therapies if medication is not available.

Steve: 00:33:54

These therapies also help very well.

Steve: 00:33:56

Can help.

Steve: 00:33:56

One is emdr, which is eye movement.

Steve: 00:33:59

It's got a long, long name.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:34:02

I've talked to a few people about EMDR and they found that worked for their trauma.

Steve: 00:34:07

Yes, there's cognitive behavioral therapy and there's dialectical behavioral therapy.

Steve: 00:34:12

All of these tools are under the guidance of a therapist.

Steve: 00:34:17

But they can do a good job on keeping somebody in control and not as bad if they didn't have them.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:34:24

Yeah.

Steve: 00:34:25

Problem people who are in the not able to be help therapy because they don't have enough money or insurance.

Steve: 00:34:35

Where are they going to hear about these things?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:34:37

Right.

Steve: 00:34:38

And they don't.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:34:39

Right.

Steve: 00:34:39

So we talk about them a lot in my groups and they can really work.

Steve: 00:34:44

Well.

Steve: 00:34:45

There's ketamine treatments and psychedelics that can help.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:34:50

However, talk to people about that too.

Steve: 00:34:52

Yeah, talk.

Steve: 00:34:52

Talk about the government allowing big Pharma to step in and ruin the great therapy.

Steve: 00:34:59

I won't say great.

Steve: 00:35:00

The good therapy for some mentally ill people.

Steve: 00:35:04

Ketamine, which was covered by insurance.

Steve: 00:35:07

The government has said that it's not what Food and Drug FDA approved.

Steve: 00:35:18

So the insurance companies have decided not to cover ketamine.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:24

Right.

Steve: 00:35:25

And ketamine costs about $15,000 a year or more.

Steve: 00:35:29

So that's our government FOIA.

Steve: 00:35:31

They bow.

Steve: 00:35:32

They bow out to whatever big pharma wants.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:35

There's also the complexity of where, you know, earlier when I was like, good on you for putting yourself in that mental health hospital or that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:45

That setting.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:45

Because I think there's also something where it takes a lot for someone that is in the throes of hardship to seek out a solution, to seek out.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:57

It's a lot of work.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:58

It's a lot of energy, and it's a.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:35:59

It's a lot of expenditure just physically to admit, to walk through, to ask for help, to try things that don't seemingly work and then try something else.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:36:09

So, I mean, I feel like that's another barrier too, because, like, that's hard to ask for help.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:36:14

Well, I.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:36:15

I mean, you can say I'm wrong, but I think it is.

Steve: 00:36:18

You're exactly right.

Steve: 00:36:20

My groups, we talk about this quite a bit.

Steve: 00:36:23

And in the 50% of people who are not.

Steve: 00:36:30

Well, no, that's not right.

Steve: 00:36:31

I would say in all of people who are most all of the people who are mentally ill, when it comes to going to a therapist, it's a tough thing to do.

Steve: 00:36:45

So people put it off or don't do it.

Steve: 00:36:47

So their own worst enemy.

Steve: 00:36:48

Then when they do go to a therapist and they're helped out and maybe put on medication, well, the guy with the mental problem will take the pill if it doesn't work right away.

Steve: 00:37:00

And it usually takes a month or so to get working.

Steve: 00:37:03

If it doesn't work in that first few days, they won't take it anymore.

Steve: 00:37:07

They'll never find out if it helped.

Steve: 00:37:09

Then there's the other people who won't take medication for whatever reason.

Steve: 00:37:13

And I've had a lot of those people.

Steve: 00:37:17

And then there are the people who just won't seek help.

Steve: 00:37:20

They have this stigma against therapists, and they think, oh, they're just boogeyman.

Steve: 00:37:25

They can't help me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:26

Yeah.

Steve: 00:37:26

So they stay away from them.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:28

Yeah.

Steve: 00:37:29

A lot of times it's the patient's fault that they don't get help.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:34

I mean, I think.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:35

I mean, I think that's true.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:36

I think for, I mean, for me personally, that grief journey of losing my mom 20 years, I pushed it off.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:43

I wasn't ready until I was like, early 30s to really, like, start to process it appropriately.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:50

And that's when I sought out help.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:52

Had I been forced before, like, if someone was like, you have to go, I don't think it would have worked.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:56

I think I had to be ready.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:57

And that's a hard.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:37:58

I mean, that's a long journey Luckily, I wasn't in dire straits.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:03

Often there were times that maybe they were harder than others, but it was really like early 30s when I was like, I need to do this.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:10

And I went through that whole thing.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:11

Like, I went to a psychiatrist.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:13

I think one of my six was a psychiatrist, and he was like, try this.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:16

Medicine is.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:17

Then you try it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:18

Then you find it doesn't work right after however long you're supposed to wait for it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:22

But then you have to wean off of that one before you try the next one.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:25

So now you're in this period of a mess.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:28

So eventually, I just went away from medications at all and found that when I found the right person, the right things all clicked together and everything kind of worked.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:35

But it's a journey, and it's just.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:37

And if you're already depressed or exhausted or all those things, it's like doubly hard to kind of go through that process.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:45

So I get it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:46

I get why people battle it.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:48

It's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:38:48

It's not easy.

Steve: 00:38:49

That's not easy.

Steve: 00:38:50

It is very true.

Steve: 00:38:52

I will say one thing about you giving up the medications, because first one or two didn't work.

Steve: 00:38:59

When I was stricken with my worst time, there were only three or four medications to help clinical.

Steve: 00:39:08

Clinical depression and bipolar.

Steve: 00:39:10

Luckily, lithium worked for me today.

Steve: 00:39:14

It's been shown that most people have to try many medications till they find the one that works.

Steve: 00:39:23

And the best result comes from a cocktail of medications.

Steve: 00:39:28

3, 4, 5.

Steve: 00:39:28

I'm on 4, 3, 4 or 5 medications that work off of each other, work together.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:33

Yeah.

Steve: 00:39:34

But what you did, you gave it up before now, who knows what would have helped?

Steve: 00:39:39

But you got the.

Steve: 00:39:40

The psychiatrist ended up helping the most.

Steve: 00:39:42

So that was good.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:43

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:44

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:44

I found my journey.

Steve: 00:39:45

Never give it enough of a try.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:47

Yeah, it was.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:48

It was quite a journey.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:49

And it's not something that, like you said, like we agreed on.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:52

It's a different.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:53

There's a different key for everyone.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:39:55

But I can't help but think about your story now and how you're helping these people or you are working with these people to help guide them.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:40:03

Do you think that a lot of the reason you do it is because you now are the person you needed when you were younger?

Steve: 00:40:10

I don't know how to explain it.

Steve: 00:40:12

I have been fortunate enough throughout this journey to learn from.

Steve: 00:40:17

When I started speaking to those high school classes that I had a lot to offer in this field, and I didn't want people to have to go through what I went through.

Steve: 00:40:29

And that's been my.

Steve: 00:40:30

I'D say I've felt that way for many, many years.

Steve: 00:40:33

I wrote the book Teetering on a Tightrope to get the word out.

Steve: 00:40:40

And now I've done over 40 podcasts to hopefully, even when I'm gone, people, the messages I've given will be out there so people will see it.

Steve: 00:40:51

Yeah, that's why I do it.

Steve: 00:40:52

I do it so people don't have to suffer like I did.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:40:55

Like you did.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:40:56

Right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:40:56

Do you think I get a lot.

Steve: 00:40:57

Of good out of it myself?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:40:59

I would imagine.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:00

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:00

There's probably some healing piece of.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:02

Every time you're able to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:04

To help, I just think, like, what if Steve Wilson was like talking at your high school, you know, like when you were a kid and you heard you talk, like, not you particularly, but someone that had gone, that was feeling those things, like when they were younger and look at them now, they're thriving or now they're living a life that feels normal and happy and all the things that you maybe didn't think were possible.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:26

Do you think that, like, that would have changed the trajectory of your life because you saw someone?

Steve: 00:41:31

Oh, because it was not.

Steve: 00:41:33

It was in the 70s.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:34

Yeah.

Steve: 00:41:34

I don't have a clue what happened then.

Steve: 00:41:38

If it were today, hopefully it would have a big impact on me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:43

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:43

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:44

It's hard.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:44

I think about.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:45

I think about that a lot.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:47

Like a 10 year old version of me, like, knew an adult that had a dead parent and grew up just fine.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:41:54

If I would have struggled as much as I did trying to be perfect so that other people wouldn't leave my life like my mom did, I mean, it wasn't of choice, but she died and therefore she left.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:05

So I became a perfectionist because I didn't want anyone else to be.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:09

To leave.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:09

And, you know, kind of like the young version of you took on this unnecessary shame.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:14

It was like I took on unnecessary blame that my mom died, but it wasn't, you know, it was out of my control.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:19

But I just.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:19

You just assume these things when you're kids.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:22

And I think about, like, had I known someone when I was younger, would I have taken 20 years to grieve that?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:27

I don't know.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:28

To your point, I don't know.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:29

It was the 80s and 90s and things were different then too.

Steve: 00:42:32

Well, the question is, where would you be today if you hadn't gone through that kind of stuff?

Steve: 00:42:37

Where would I be today?

Steve: 00:42:39

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be helping people or trying to help people like I am now.

Steve: 00:42:44

So maybe the ends justify the means.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:46

I Agree.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:47

It's hard to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:48

I think you have to be able to reflect on those moments and get through those moments and think about how there are things to be grateful for.

Steve: 00:42:56

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:56

Despite the circumstances that we've gone through.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:42:59

But you're right.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:01

I would not be this version of me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:02

You would not be this version of you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:04

You would not be impacting the people in your life the way that you do now had you not struggled through all of those pieces of your life.

Steve: 00:43:11

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:12

Which is, like, so crappy.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:13

Like, it's not like we want this, but at the same time, like, look what we can do now, because you've kind of.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:19

I don't want to say made it to the other side, but you've kind of made it through to a space that feels more comfortable for you compared to that earlier version of you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:27

Right.

Steve: 00:43:28

Yes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:28

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:29

That's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:30

I mean, good on you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:31

This is.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:32

This is.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:32

Not only do I still get stuck on that, like, you put yourself in a space that you needed to get a little healthier at the time after that incident where you almost did something that you probably would have regretted, but now you make the decision to help other people.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:50

You don't have to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:51

You make the choice to do that, and that's big.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:43:54

So kudos to you for impacting so many people from what you've learned and your compassion that you have for these other people.

Steve: 00:44:01

Well, thanks.

Steve: 00:44:02

And the same to you, too.

Steve: 00:44:04

One of the sad things about the journey to assist people in mental illnesses is that most of the time, I never know the outcome.

Steve: 00:44:17

And we have a girl in our group, she's maybe 45, and she was having postpartum depression, and she had a faulty marriage and no support and all this, and she became very suicidal.

Steve: 00:44:36

And she tried to commit suicide earlier in her life.

Steve: 00:44:39

And she was on our group one night, and she was really in bad shape.

Steve: 00:44:44

And all of us in the group, we didn't tell her to go.

Steve: 00:44:47

We never, in my group give any advice.

Steve: 00:44:50

That's not our job.

Steve: 00:44:51

But we suggested that she ought to think about going into a hospital.

Steve: 00:44:56

Well, the next day or two, she went to her therapist, and her therapist said, no, no, no, you don't need to go to a hospital.

Steve: 00:45:04

Two days later, she tried to kill herself.

Steve: 00:45:06

And the only reason she lived is because her husband came in and found her and saved her.

Steve: 00:45:13

You know, it just.

Steve: 00:45:14

It just points out that it's everywhere.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:17

Yeah.

Steve: 00:45:18

And those stats I gave you before, that's worldwide.

Steve: 00:45:21

That isn't just the US that's everywhere.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:24

Yeah.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:25

It's it's really.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:26

It is a epidemic.

Steve: 00:45:27

It's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:28

It's rough, but you're doing what you can in the space that you are.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:31

And you're.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:31

You're doing what you know how to do, what you probably needed more of in your life as you were going through your battles.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:39

And now you can do it for other people.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:40

I think it's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:41

I think it's commendable.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:42

And, you know, sometimes it's all we can do is what we can do.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:45

No, we can't change the world, but maybe in the little space that we're in, we can change some lives through that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:45:50

So I definitely think, I like to kind of ask this question, and I know it's not possible, but if, if this version of you could talk to that fourth grader that was starting to feel very offensive and very different, is there anything that you would want to.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:46:06

Want to tell that younger version of Steve about this journey he was about to go on?

Steve: 00:46:10

Well, the best thing I could give him me, when I got assaulted, was my support.

Steve: 00:46:18

Too few people in the world are there to support mental illness.

Steve: 00:46:24

Many people believe it's a sham.

Steve: 00:46:26

Many people want to tell you there's nothing wrong with you.

Steve: 00:46:29

Go for a run, something like that.

Steve: 00:46:33

The parents do it, the siblings do it, friends do it.

Steve: 00:46:37

What they should be doing is saying, God, I don't know what to do, but I'm here for you in any way you need me.

Steve: 00:46:46

But so many families don't know what to do, or they don't believe it or they don't care.

Steve: 00:46:53

The big factor I think I could bring myself at that time was my support, a hug.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:46:59

I'm here if you need anything.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:01

Not telling you to do anything, but I will listen and I will be here.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:05

I think it's.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:06

It's probably what I would say to the younger version of myself as well, is that, like, I felt like I couldn't tell anyone I was sad because everyone didn't want me to be sad.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:14

So I needed to be happy.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:15

So I think I would say the same to my younger self.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:18

Well, thank you for sharing your story.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:20

I know it's really not the easiest to share sometimes, but if people want to, like, check out your book or connect with you, like, what's the best way to find you and get in your world?

Steve: 00:47:29

Well, the title of my book is Teetering on a Tightrope, My Bipolar Journey.

Steve: 00:47:39

It is on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other places.

Steve: 00:47:43

I don't remember them all.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:45

I'll put a link in the show.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:47:46

Notes for you.

Steve: 00:47:47

It's like 12 or $13.

Steve: 00:47:51

It's 160 pages long.

Steve: 00:47:54

It's a quick, easy read.

Steve: 00:47:57

If want to look at my website.

Steve: 00:47:59

The website is author Steve W.

Steve: 00:48:03

Wilson, gmail.com.

Steve: 00:48:06

or is it one of those two?

Mack YL Hooley: 00:48:08

Well, that would be your email address.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:48:10

The Gmail part.

Steve: 00:48:11

Yeah.

Steve: 00:48:11

So it's dot com.

Steve: 00:48:12

Because it's a website.

Steve: 00:48:14

Website.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:48:15

Awesome.

Steve: 00:48:16

My.

Steve: 00:48:17

My own email address is on the website.

Steve: 00:48:20

Anybody can call me if they want to.

Steve: 00:48:23

I am also branching out and offering expanded, not expanded by the time, but extra amounts of mental health support groups.

Steve: 00:48:33

There will be two other current or past facilitators with me and we will be offering.

Steve: 00:48:41

And all our.

Steve: 00:48:41

All of our groups are online.

Steve: 00:48:44

We will be in the next month or so beginning to offer our support groups wherever you can find them.

Steve: 00:48:51

We have a guy in Florida.

Steve: 00:48:53

There are two of us in Phoenix.

Steve: 00:48:54

We're looking for others and it's free.

Steve: 00:48:57

And we're just out here to reach out to people who need a helping hand.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:02

Yeah, I need to just hear, be heard, see, know that they're not alone.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:07

That's great.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:07

We will.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:08

We'll include all those links into in the show notes or I will include those in the show notes.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:12

I don't know why I said we.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:13

It's just me.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:13

But we'll put all that information in the show notes so people can connect with you, reach out to you, share their story, share how your story impacted them.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:22

If you're listening now and something that Steve said resonated with you, please reach out to him.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:27

Or maybe you know someone in your life that needs to hear Steve's story or needs to be part of one of these groups, please share this episode with them.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:34

We would be so grateful for that.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:36

So thank you again, Steve, for sharing your story in this way and I.

Steve: 00:49:39

Sure shall appreciate it for sure.

Steve: 00:49:41

Know of anybody doing podcasts in the same area we are?

Steve: 00:49:47

Have them get in touch with me and I'll be glad to do a podcast as a guest.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:51

Sure thing.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:51

And anyone listening too.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:52

If you have a podcast and you are interested in having Steve share his story in the way that your podcast does it, please reach out.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:49:59

Reach out to me and I will connect you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:50:01

And if you are listening, thank you for listening.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:50:04

I am so grateful for you.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:50:05

And with that, I'm going to say goodbye and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast.

Steve: 00:50:11

Bye everybody.

Steve: 00:50:12

Thanks.

Mack YL Hooley: 00:50:24

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.