Shownotes
Our resident hockey expert joins us to explain hockey to Americans: all things PWHL, Canadian hockey culture, and is ringette a real sport... ?!
But first, the women's sports highlights of the week:
- The NSL playoffs brought in massive economic return for Canada. Now, it's the NWSL's turn: Ranked #8 out of 8, is Gotham FC ruining everyone's brackets?
- We're rooting for winter sports comebacks: Alysa Liu, who took her first Skate America win, and Mikaela Shiffrin, who just won her 102nd World Cup race and her ninth reindeer. Yes, reindeer.
- Then, why the heck can't endurance sports get it together?! A cycling world record that no one bothered to record?
Then it's time to get in the weeds on hockey!
The PWHL is expanding to eight teams (hello, Vancouver and Seattle!) this season. How did we get here? And what's next for the league? Plus, can you build a non-toxic hockey culture?
Plus, our new segment: 'Like we were saying...' with updates on sex testing (yes, again). And our Feisty picks of the week.
Episode resources:
- The Canada Hockey sexual assault case: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/canada-hockey-sexual-assault-case-analysis
- History of women's hockey: https://thecolgatemaroonnews.com/47399/sports/the-pwhl-part-i-the-history-of-womens-pro-hockey/ and https://thecolgatemaroonnews.com/47893/sports/the-pwhl-part-ii-why-the-league-will-buck-the-trend/
Episode timestamps:
00:24 - Soccer playoff highlights
07:05 - Time for winter sports: Why we're rooting for Alysia Liu
09:22 - Mikaela Shiffrin's crash comeback & Lindsey Vonn's Olympic hops
16:43 - Why do triathlon and cycling keep messing up?
30:03 - PWHL expansion and a season preview
36:09 - The weird league ownership structure of the PWSL
39:40 - Hockey's toxic culture?
50:30 Ringette: A Canadian Sport(??)
01:05:19 - Like We Were Saying: Could trans athletes be banned from the Olympics?
01:08:04 Feisty Picks of the Week
Subscribe to The Feist, our Free Weekly Newsletter covering Women's Sports: https://feisty.co/feistnews/
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Transcripts
All right, Feisties, this is your favorite and feistiest women's sports show.
Speaker A:All the why behind what's happening in your favorite sports.
Speaker A:I'm Kelly o'.
Speaker A:Meara.
Speaker B:And I'm Sarah Gross.
Speaker B:And this week the Canadians are going to explain hockey to Kelly and Ringette apparently also ring at several other things.
Speaker A:Several other things.
Speaker A:But first, Sarah, it's the time of.
Speaker A:It's like the end of.
Speaker A:I was about to say regular sports season before we get into winter sports season.
Speaker A:It's the end of soccer sports.
Speaker B:Kelly's Bias VD regular sports.
Speaker A:And we had the Northern Super League playoffs and this past weekend and then the nwsl.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Playoffs this upcoming weekend.
Speaker A:I hear Vancouver won.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So in the nsl, Vancouver won.
Speaker B:They played in Toronto.
Speaker B:The, like Ontario, the province of Ontario put a huge investment into having the finals there.
Speaker B:So like regardless of which teams were going to be in the finals, like whether Toronto happened to be playing against Vancouver in the finals, well that's convenient.
Speaker B:But yeah, even if they had not been, it was going to be the finals, were always going to be in Toronto.
Speaker B:And yeah, and then I guess Toronto, I, I saw a little bit of it.
Speaker B:Like I saw highlights, but I guess Toronto came out within the first 20 minutes of the goal, led early and the home fans were probably very excited.
Speaker B:But Vancouver, yay, West coast came back to win 2 to 1.
Speaker A:It's interesting because like the finals for the NWSL are going to be here in the Bay Area.
Speaker A:Well, here like an hour and a half away from, but in San Jose.
Speaker A:And they decided that regardless of whether or not the Bay FC team made it.
Speaker A:And of course now they haven't made it.
Speaker A:So I'm, I think they're having like a little bit harder time.
Speaker B:Interesting to see if people will.
Speaker B:Because you know, when they, when Toronto, when they announced that, that Toronto was going to host regardless, I think, I think there's enough kind of like rah rah Canadiana going on around this like NSL team that or nsl, sorry, league.
Speaker B:I should say there's enough support that I think Toronto would bring out a crowd.
Speaker B:Even if it had been say Calgary against Calgary.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think of the two furthest cities, Calgary versus Vancouver.
Speaker B:You know, I think I, I think that there still would have been enough support because as we talked about in previous weeks too, like a lot of women's sports fandom are fans of women's sports or also fans of the league, you know, like the WNBA versus having that kind of connection and attachment to their local team, which I think will come later.
Speaker B:But, you know, I think this is just enough of that going on.
Speaker B:But you don't think the nwsl.
Speaker A:Well, it's.
Speaker A:I, like, I'm having.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's okay.
Speaker A:So it's just, like, Bay Area is obviously very spread out because we have a bay in the middle of all our cities.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker A:And so I don't really.
Speaker A:Like, I've been trying to decide, like, I don't want to drive an hour and a half.
Speaker A:It's at PayPal park, which is the men's stadium.
Speaker A:The men's MSL Stadium.
Speaker A:Cause they still don't have their own, like, stadium here, which has been a whole, like, their work, like, their Develop.
Speaker A:Building practice facilities.
Speaker A:And one of the problems with that stadium is it is very south.
Speaker A:So they want to, like, bring kind of the NWSL team up more into the city and, like, bring.
Speaker A:So all of the ads, even for the Bay FC team, have been like, no, really, we're the whole Bay Area's team, even though we're like, an hour and a half south.
Speaker A:And really.
Speaker A:So anyway, that's the.
Speaker A:That's the problem right now.
Speaker A:It's just like, San Jose.
Speaker A:I don't want to drive all the way down to San Jose.
Speaker B:But is this your.
Speaker B:Is it your personal problem or are there enough people who live south?
Speaker B:Like, you know, it's a densely populated area.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Speaker A:Like, it's clearly not my personal problem, given the ads they're running and the fact that they are trying to be like, hey, city, we're your team, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:It's not like.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot of reasons.
Speaker A:It's not, like, an awesome location.
Speaker A:So I think that's one of the things they're coming up against.
Speaker A:But it is the final for NWSL and who's playing.
Speaker A:And it's Gotham FC and Washington Spirit.
Speaker A:And Gotham FC was.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So eight teams make the playoffs.
Speaker A:They were ranked number eight.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:Which means they had to beat the number one team to make it to the semis, and then they had to beat the number four team.
Speaker A:So it has been very dramatic.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They defeated the number one Kansas City Current in that first game.
Speaker A:Like, and no one expect.
Speaker A:And the Kansas City Current have been so dominant.
Speaker A:Like, everyone was like, oh, they're just gonna.
Speaker A:They're just gonna roll them.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's been crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm excited.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I don't know about you.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was thinking, you know, just Seeing all the social media coming out this weekend about the NSL final and everything.
Speaker B:Like I was a kid who wanted to be a professional soccer player, you know, and that.
Speaker B:I don't know, it just like.
Speaker B:Cuz you were a soccer player too, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, I was just kind of like, do you feel that?
Speaker A:No too.
Speaker B:No you don't.
Speaker A:Because like the US Women's National Team has always been a big deal.
Speaker A:So that was more the.
Speaker A:Always like, like how.
Speaker A:How, Sarah, could I be like, oh, this is such a big deal when my first recollection is the Rose bowl game that like sold out massive numbers for the World Cup Final.
Speaker A:Like, how could I be like, oh, this is a bigger deal than that.
Speaker A:That was like my first conception of women's soccer.
Speaker B:But surely even young, young, young intelligent Kelly.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Understood, like, would understand that there was.
Speaker B:Because I remember understanding that like there was a pathway.
Speaker B:Some of the girls that I played with got NCAA scholarships like in the U.S. you know, and went and played, but that the pathway was an NCAA scholarship.
Speaker B:And then if you're good enough, you're on that.
Speaker B:Because the Canadian national team in soccer has also been fairly decent, I think.
Speaker A:I mean, sure, of course you like intellectually understand that.
Speaker A:I'm just telling you, like I went to college with Alex Morgan.
Speaker A:Like, it's sort of like, I mean, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like you're like, well, obviously people can make money.
Speaker A:Like, right.
Speaker A:So I can.
Speaker A:Girl in my econ class is doing right.
Speaker A:Like, so I think there's an amount where it was always sort of like, why would like, of course they can make money at some point.
Speaker A:And now obviously, yes, they have a pro league, but I don't think.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It has not been mind blowing to me because it's more like, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just think the availability of more opportunities, it's just really, you know, I, I think it's just, it's.
Speaker B:And it's true, like, especially having it at home in Ontario.
Speaker B:Like, if I had had a league, like known that our pro league in Canada was playing its finals just an hour from where I was living when I was, you know, a preteen, that would have been amazing.
Speaker B:So amazing.
Speaker A:Well, there you go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I still don't want to drive an hour and a half when they had their game up in the city.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They did this big like sellout game in the city that, you know, set records and stuff.
Speaker A:See, that's like then, then everybody went because it was in the city.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:I think you're getting to the, like, this isn't, like, a women's sports problem.
Speaker A:This is just a, like, fan.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Problem.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:People are busy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Driving an hour and a half.
Speaker B:Big commitment.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:But that's coming up.
Speaker A:The other thing and was this past weekend, the.
Speaker A:As I was saying, like, we are transitioning now from regular sports season to winter sports season.
Speaker A:And, you know, I've been watching a lot of the figure skating as we're getting ready for the Winter Olympics.
Speaker A:So I'm, like, fully ready to be in tune.
Speaker A:It was like, Sheil.
Speaker A:It was figure skating in the US this past weekend and speed skating in the US this past weekend.
Speaker A:And I have to say, well, one, I don't know if you've watched any figure skating lately, but the guy, the American guy is insane.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:Like, crazy, crazy, crazy.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you watch somebody and you're just like, holy, this person is so much better.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Than everybody else.
Speaker A:So that's, like, crazy.
Speaker B:So is he going in favorite to the Olympics?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know how, like, technical scores and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they mark them like, oh, like yellow or red.
Speaker A:If he did, he has, like, all green scores.
Speaker A:He, like, outscores people by, like, 70 points in, like, 270 point competitions.
Speaker A:Like, it's crazy.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So that's obviously nuts.
Speaker A:And then the women.
Speaker A:On the women's side in the US we have Alicia Liu, who I just love her.
Speaker A:She won the world championships last year, but she had, like, quit skating and, like, just gone to college, like, retired.
Speaker A:Was like, I'm burned out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I didn't skate for, like, two years and then came back and it's just been like, oh, I'm just gonna have fun.
Speaker A:And then won nationals, won world championships.
Speaker A:I just think this.
Speaker A:And then she won ski in America this past weekend.
Speaker A:I just think it's, like, it's amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Her story's wild to, you know, to be that good at 13 years old, you know, and then just.
Speaker B:And then to think, oh, I want to.
Speaker B:I just want to be a normal teenager.
Speaker B:Of course she thinks that, you know, and I also do love that, like, finding balance has helped the return.
Speaker B:And she's returned to.
Speaker B:She's returned to the top as well.
Speaker B:It's so great.
Speaker A:You can, like, tell, like, obviously people are always like, oh, I'm having fun now.
Speaker A:And you're always like, well, winning is fun, but whatever.
Speaker A:But you can tell, like, she is, like, she's definitely, like, a little more relaxed than some of the other skaters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, just Based on, you know, the, like, what she's doing on the sideline.
Speaker B:Like, you could see that on TV when you were watching it, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, tell.
Speaker A:She's more relaxed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So obviously we're rooting for her, of course, going into the Olympics.
Speaker A:The other person we are rooting for, the other comeback.
Speaker A:Well, I don't know.
Speaker A:Are you reading for Lindsey Vaughn or Michaela Shifrin?
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:After reading this Michaela Shifrin injury, I.
Speaker B:You know, last night I was at the airport on my way home from Albuquerque, and just in Seattle airport, just reading.
Speaker B:Reading all about Michaela Shifford's come back, like, the multiple injuries, tearing up, like, her.
Speaker B:Her first injury where she.
Speaker B:They didn't even know how it happened, and it tore up her entire gut.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker A:Well, they just don't know, like, what stab.
Speaker A:Like she crashed and they're not sure.
Speaker B:Like, what stabbed her.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:On her.
Speaker B:On.
Speaker B:And I mean, I know she was saying that this wasn't, you know, that it wasn't like, her primary goal, but it was like, it would have been her, like, 100th World cup win, too, when she crashed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Last year she was supposed to win 100 or was supposed to win 100 at home, right.
Speaker A:In Killington or whatever, and she crashed.
Speaker A:And obviously skiers crash, and you're kind of like, oh, that sucks.
Speaker A:But it ended up being, like, really, really bad.
Speaker A:And then she's talking about, like, she had.
Speaker A:Even when she got better and came back, she was having ptsd.
Speaker A:She was, like, freezing up on the slope, and she's, like, talked about that and about that, which, like, I guess a lot of skiers don't really talk about that because it's such a.
Speaker A:Like, you can't think about that part of things.
Speaker C:Sport.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I really appreciated her openness about that.
Speaker B:Because you, you know, we don't think about it, too, as viewers.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, we're just watching people doing this amazing thing that we could never do.
Speaker B:Especially when you're watching these.
Speaker B:These, like, crazy downhill sports on ice and snow.
Speaker B:But just to, like, it brings a sense of normalcy, you know, like.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, what they're doing is actually scary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then, obviously, so to your point, she, like, kind of came back.
Speaker A:She, like, actually, you know, like, went to the World Championship at the end of the year, but in a limited capacity.
Speaker A:Like, she didn't do all her events.
Speaker A:And then this past weekend, she.
Speaker A:She won her 102nd World cup, which is crazy.
Speaker A:She is just, like, she has, like, all the Records.
Speaker A:All the records.
Speaker B:And then when the highlight story before I click through on it was like, that she won a reindeer.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, and I thought.
Speaker B:I literally.
Speaker B:My brain thought that the.
Speaker B:That reindeer meant something like the reindeer cup, you know?
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:And you click on a reindeer, and there's immediately, like, a picture of her and, like, an actual reindeer that she won.
Speaker B:And this is not.
Speaker B:This is not the first reindeer.
Speaker B:She now.
Speaker B:She now is the.
Speaker A:She has won nine.
Speaker B:Nine.
Speaker A:And that's amazing.
Speaker B:And I was looking it up, Kelly, like, the name.
Speaker B:So she keeps these reindeers, you know, these reindeer, like, on a farm.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And she has, like, Rudolph, Sven, Mr. Gru.
Speaker B:Ingimar, I think is how you pronounce it.
Speaker B:Sunny, Lorax, Grogu, and Rory.
Speaker B:And now this new one is called Winky, which is apparently named after her mom, who was her or her mom's childhood nickname.
Speaker A:So the whole thing is that this, like, first opening World cup that's in somewhere in Finland, Lapland, you win a reindeer.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:How do you think she gets the reindeer home?
Speaker B:I know there's.
Speaker B:There's a lot of.
Speaker B:There was a lot of unanswered questions about this whole reindeer situation.
Speaker B:I want you to go deep on the reindeer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We definitely need a deeper dive.
Speaker A:So, yeah, obviously you're rooting for her, but the one that, like, you know, my husband asked me, and the one that everyone's about is the.
Speaker A:Is can Lindsey Vaughn.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Qualify for the Olympics?
Speaker A:I mean, technically, yes.
Speaker A:Not even technically, like, 100.
Speaker A:She can.
Speaker A:She, like, meddled, podiumed at the World Championships, so she's like, obviously came back enough.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:At a World cup, whatever.
Speaker A:At the end of the season, she.
Speaker A:She was up there.
Speaker A:The question now, I think is, like, can she.
Speaker A:She has to earn a certain number of points in these first, like, in these World Cups to kind of, like, get a position.
Speaker A:And then she would be the oldest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you want to talk about injuries.
Speaker A:You want to talk about, like, crashes over the years.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Lindsay Vaughn has a lot.
Speaker A:So I think she's, like, rebuilt.
Speaker A:She's, like, bionic at this point, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker B:I think it's like, it has to do with the longer you stay in it, you know, you just end up with more and more crashes that the odds.
Speaker A:Because, like, of course, like, obviously we both come from cycling, and there's a point where it's like, well, yeah, everybody I know has crashed.
Speaker A:Like, it is what it is.
Speaker A:But skiing, I feel like you have, like.
Speaker A:Or luge or bobsled.
Speaker A:Like, you're definitely going to.
Speaker A:To crash at some point.
Speaker B:And you're moving so fast.
Speaker B:I mean, that's.
Speaker B:I mean, cycling involves cars, you know, so that's also scary.
Speaker A:Not good.
Speaker B:Not good.
Speaker A:Not good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyway, I do not know if Lindsey Vaughn is going to qualify, but I think everyone is rooting for her, including NBC.
Speaker A:NBC would love.
Speaker B:Yeah, it'd be fun.
Speaker A:If she qualified her to qualify for sure.
Speaker A:They were using her in some of their promos already, so they're really fingers crossed on this.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:They're really banking on her.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:What did.
Speaker A:I actually did watch.
Speaker A:What did you.
Speaker A:I mean, you obviously were lifting weights all weekend.
Speaker B:I was lifting weights all weekend.
Speaker B:I did not watch much of anything at all.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:Yeah, so we had.
Speaker B:Yeah, we had our feisty 40 plus, the first version of our strong retreat, and it was in Albuquerque because Cassie, our kind of like head strength coach for Feisty, owns a gym in Albuquerque.
Speaker B:And first of all, this place was immense.
Speaker B:You know, like, we just took out.
Speaker B:We just took over one whole side of the gym that was in and of itself a very large gym.
Speaker B:So it's nice to like, have our own space.
Speaker B:And then we basically.
Speaker B:We basically go through, like four lifts.
Speaker B:So we started with squat and then strict press.
Speaker B:The next morning we did bench and then deadlifts.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And even, like, a lot of the folks that attended actually had a little bit of lifting experience, but we all picked up all kinds of technique pieces, you know, and it was Cassie and two other coaches who were Sam and Caitlin, who were also excellent.
Speaker B:So I feel like I learned so much.
Speaker B:And actually watching lifting provides some.
Speaker B:This level of empowerment that you can't quite get in other things, you know, like when people are cheering each other on and lifting.
Speaker A:I actually, I actually think it's really.
Speaker A:I really am not a big fan of the cheering in the gym.
Speaker A:I gotta tell you.
Speaker A:I'm always like, why is everyone watching me do this squat?
Speaker B:Oh, so do people watch you do squats on a normal day?
Speaker A:Well, not like, not like, like, not like when you're just like, random.
Speaker A:Well, sometimes, but that's because it's the jcc.
Speaker A:But I mean, like, you know what, what you're talking about when it's like a group class or like you're at CrossFit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And everybody's like, cheering.
Speaker A:I actually always find that really awkward.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I think for the most part, I.
Speaker B:People enjoyed the camaraderie, you know, of like, lifting together.
Speaker B:It's Sort of.
Speaker B:It's really hard to explain if you haven't done it, how, like, how much of a mind body connection.
Speaker B:I'm sure you understand this, but, like, the mind body connection that is created by lifting weights, like, you actually feel your muscles in real time, and it kind of translates to the rest of your life.
Speaker B:So I think that's why that's where the entire weekend just ends up being immensely empowering.
Speaker B:So that's great.
Speaker B:That's what I did.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:I watched.
Speaker B:I watched and participated in women lifting weights.
Speaker A:Oh, there you go.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker A:I watched a little bit of triathlon because, you know, as we talk about, it's our sport.
Speaker A:But the big triathlon race this past weekend was in Dubai.
Speaker A:So that's like two in the morning here.
Speaker A:So mostly I woke up and heard about absolute chaos and was like, what the fuck happened?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker B:Okay, I'm really sorry.
Speaker B:Because, like, I.
Speaker B:You know, my.
Speaker B:You know, my family spent so many years in the Emirates, and, like, I don't even really like to say this out loud, but how come these races in the Emirates keep getting it wrong?
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:And I've been to some of them.
Speaker B:They've.
Speaker B:There's been ones I've seen where, like, the entire pack goes the wrong way, you know, on the swim, and then one guy does the right way on the swim, but then, like, do they disqualify, like, the entire men's.
Speaker A:Which is basically what happened.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to be.
Speaker A:So what happened?
Speaker A:This was like the penultimate race in this big series called T100.
Speaker A:And what happened is the lead, three guys did an extra lap on the bike, and there's kind of.
Speaker A:They're kind of split.
Speaker A:Like, at least two of the guys said that they were ready to stop.
Speaker A:Like, they thought they were done.
Speaker A:And then people were like, no, no, you have another lap.
Speaker A:And then they were like, I don't think I.
Speaker A:But if you are wrong.
Speaker A:So they kept going.
Speaker A:And then instead of stopping them every, like, halfway through the lap, and everyone let them do a whole other lap, which is a lot of time, so.
Speaker A:And then the leader pulls in thinking he's in the lead and sees people running and is like, what the fuck?
Speaker A:So literally he's asking the camera, like, what's going on?
Speaker A:What the.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Because he still thinks he was right.
Speaker A:He thinks he did the correct number of laps, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, Right.
Speaker A:And so then everybody's on the run.
Speaker A:It's kind of a mess.
Speaker A:And then the lap counter miscounts on the run, and, like, almost the entire field Stops a lap short.
Speaker A:Because the thing on the screen saying, go to the finish.
Speaker A:Not instead of, like, because it splits where you go one more lap where you go to the finish.
Speaker A:So there.
Speaker A:So everyone.
Speaker A:So all the officials, everybody's saying, like, go to the finish.
Speaker A:So everybody except for four guys run a lap short.
Speaker A:And so then, like, the guy who is in second, like, comes in, and they're holding up the winner's banner, and he's like, crosses it.
Speaker A:And then he's like, what the fuck?
Speaker A:Like, I, like, knows there's a person up ahead of him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But that person did the other lap so that everybody.
Speaker A:So almost everybody does a lap short.
Speaker A:Then the guy who actually is winning comes in, like, thinks he's won because, like, he has and is like, why the fuck has everyone done, like.
Speaker A:Is looking at everybody.
Speaker A:Like, you would see on the broadcast multiple times, where people are like, what?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:What's happening?
Speaker B:So typically, when these things go wrong in triathlons, right?
Speaker B:It's like one or the other.
Speaker B:Like, somebody.
Speaker B:They did either some part of the field did an extra lap on the bike, or part of them did an extra lap on the run.
Speaker B:But, like, this is, like, compounding.
Speaker A:It was so many compounding.
Speaker A:And I gather, because it was so many laps, like, people were lapping each other in and out, which is part of what was confusing it.
Speaker A:So it was just like, oh, my God, it was a mess.
Speaker B:Oh, I see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They're like, the lap is so short.
Speaker A:So it was a disaster.
Speaker B:How to figure out the results.
Speaker A:They ended up letting the men all vote on what they should do.
Speaker B:They did a democratic system to figure out who won.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I love this so much.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And how did the vote.
Speaker A:And they let the guy who.
Speaker A:They basically decided that the people who did the extra bike lap, like, too bad for you, you know, because it was, like, three of them.
Speaker A:And then they weren't going to disqualify everybody on the run, so they let the results just stand that were, like, at the end of lap seven instead of anyway.
Speaker A:But to your point, it's kind of crazy.
Speaker A:Like, how does this keep happening?
Speaker A:These countries pay, like, Dubai paid a lot of money for these people to come and put on a race.
Speaker A:They figured, like, the women's race was, like, two hours later.
Speaker A:And it seemed like it was mostly resolved, but it's still just like, what?
Speaker A:What is going on?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is not.
Speaker A:I was joking to my husband.
Speaker A:I was like, they pay a lot of money for you to put on, like, $50 million for you to come put on triathlon.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or not.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker B:Or.
Speaker B:Or a random assortment of people exercising and then voting on who won later.
Speaker A:And all these countries are paying a lot of money.
Speaker A:Like, the other thing I was telling you was that, like last week, Dubai also announced that they're going to be hosting the first ever all women's, like, World Triathlon Cup.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Which they announced last week.
Speaker A:And it's in three weeks.
Speaker A:And these.
Speaker A:For that level of competition, like, people plan their seasons, you know.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:In advance.
Speaker B:I have to tell you, I have benefited in the past from this randomness of.
Speaker B:So when I was.
Speaker B:I've probably told this story before, but when I was living, I was.
Speaker B:I was working my PhD in Edinburgh.
Speaker B:But I also, like, I used to go back and do three or four months of working my PhD and then go back to being like a pro athlete for most of the year for several years.
Speaker B:And my dad calls me one day and he's just like, sarah, like, can you come here this weekend?
Speaker B:Is it this?
Speaker B:This, like, the shake announced that there's going to be a marathon, and the men and the women's winner each get $10,000.
Speaker A:You were like, okay.
Speaker B:And I was like, what?
Speaker B:So as it was, I couldn't go to that one.
Speaker B:But then this, I think it was the same shake.
Speaker B:They ended up putting on a series of eight different, like, endurance events over.
Speaker B:So I did actually go back to the Emirates early and.
Speaker B:Or like, go back.
Speaker B:Cause I. I used to do training blocks there, you know, But I went like, I was gonna go back around Christmas time and then stay.
Speaker B:But I went like mid December to like, get in on these.
Speaker B:So the first race I did, like, I came out of off season not training into like a straight 40k bike time trial in the heat.
Speaker B:I got heat stroke, whatever, but I want a ton of money.
Speaker B:And I went.
Speaker B:And there was like a duathlon and a triathlon.
Speaker B:There was like all kinds of random.
Speaker B:There might have been an aquathon.
Speaker B:There was these kind of different multisport events every two weeks for.
Speaker B:For however long to get eight, like a first couple months.
Speaker B:And then I. Yeah, so I have benefited from that system.
Speaker B:But like, obviously it's a little bit random.
Speaker A:Oh, it's super.
Speaker A:So if any triathlete or, you know, hopeful triathlete is listening and can get to Dubai in three weeks on December 7, there's like $30,000 to win.
Speaker B:Just scoop up.
Speaker B:Go for it.
Speaker A:Go for it.
Speaker A:Very weird.
Speaker A:I feel like this is something with our sports.
Speaker A:Cause the other thing I was.
Speaker A:So there was this like, the track world championship cycling were a couple weeks ago, which we've talked about.
Speaker A:And then kind of after that, they did this.
Speaker A:This duo did a attempt at the world record in the God track section.
Speaker A:So confusing.
Speaker A:But in the Madison Sprint or the Madison.
Speaker A:Sorry, we get the Madison Kilo, which is like a partnered slingshot event.
Speaker A:Point is, they set this world record, but that means.
Speaker B:Partnered slingshot.
Speaker B:But it's 1k, right, kilo?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what that means.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Then they set this world record and then everyone's like, we think that was a world record.
Speaker A:And then they, like, celebrate it at the track.
Speaker A:They post it.
Speaker A:And then somebody else is like, wait, I remember going after this record like seven years ago, but there's no record of that happening.
Speaker A:And then some other cyclists like, oh, yeah, yeah, we.
Speaker A:We did this event like 10 years ago.
Speaker A:Pretty sure our time was faster.
Speaker A:And then someone has to go and like, try and find.
Speaker A:And apparently we don't keep records.
Speaker A:Like, no one kept an official record.
Speaker B:Charge of writing this down.
Speaker A:I was like, what the fuck?
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I do love how that was like.
Speaker B:So the language of writing it down was kind of what some of the quotes were saying.
Speaker B:People were like, nobody wrote this down.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:Is writing it down a thing?
Speaker B:Like somebody needs to log it in some way on the Internet.
Speaker A:I think that's the problem is like.
Speaker B:How does this happen?
Speaker A:We're so used to, like the Internet keeping track of everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That some of these things that happen, like pre Wikipedia, they're like, did they happen?
Speaker A:And you're like, of course they happened.
Speaker A:Just feel like because it's not on Strava doesn't mean it didn't happen anyway.
Speaker A:Very.
Speaker A:I'm like, man, guys, ours force need.
Speaker B:To get it together, need to pull it together.
Speaker B:Who's.
Speaker B:It is the federation who does.
Speaker A:Well, I think, because this is not a.
Speaker A:This was like, not in the World Championships.
Speaker A:It was like an exhibition event after.
Speaker A:So it's not regulated by the UCI, so they don't track the.
Speaker A:Because there's not an official UCI record.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You see what I'm saying?
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So some guy has to keep track and write it all down.
Speaker B:Some guy.
Speaker A:There's a guy in triathlon, who's the guy?
Speaker A:And I always wonder what.
Speaker A:What's going to happen?
Speaker B:And he kind of volunteers his time, doesn't he?
Speaker B:Like, nobody really pays him.
Speaker B:He's just like us.
Speaker B:He's just enjoys keeping track of these things.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, he's like, made a job now as being like the guy for certain organizations and.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:But it's, it's a, like, these are like contract jobs that he's got because of his, like, attention to detail in keeping track of things.
Speaker A:And you ask Iron man, for example, and they're like, oh, we don't keep track of records.
Speaker A:And you're like, well, who's going to keep track?
Speaker A:Some guy?
Speaker A:Like, it's wild.
Speaker B:It is kind of wild.
Speaker A:So anyway, that's my arse forcing to get it Together segment.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, is there any other highlights of our week, Sarah, before we, before we discuss all things hockey?
Speaker B:I have no other highlights.
Speaker B:Let's, let's bring on the Canadiana.
Speaker A:All right, so we, for this we brought in our producer, one of our kind of social media editors, our customer service person, who is also though, the beat reporter for the Ice Garden, which is a hockey publication, covers the Vancouver New Vancouver PWHL team, writes, has a podcast on women's hockey for Ice Garden.
Speaker A:So basically, Maya knows everything there is to know about women's hockey.
Speaker A:And so we brought Maya Smith in to tell us all about the upcoming PWHL season.
Speaker A:All right, welcome, Maya.
Speaker A:Maya is our feisty resident hockey expert.
Speaker A:And that's not just because we're saying that.
Speaker A:It's also because she writes for a hockey website in her free time.
Speaker A:Maya, how long have you been into, I'm just going to say into hockey, Covering hockey.
Speaker C:Well, covering hockey and into hockey are very different numbers.
Speaker C:I've been playing since I was like five, so 20 years, I guess.
Speaker C: specific role that I have in: Speaker C:And then since then, they've kind of brought me into do more writing.
Speaker C:And now I'm the beat reporter for them for the Vancouver Golden Eyes, which is the new PWHL Vancouver team.
Speaker C:So I also have a podcast on there and yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker C:I've always wanted to do this, so it's really cool.
Speaker C:And also here I do some hockey stuff when the moment allows.
Speaker A:What did it for people who are like, you know, played hockey, since they're good?
Speaker A:What did it mean to have the PWHL kind of launching and now have it going, you know, so successfully?
Speaker C:I mean, it's just crazy to look back at how far we've come because I remember when I was like, the way that hockey works here still in Calgary is that you play against boys, even if you're in the girls league when you're like 7 and 8.
Speaker C:And I remember walking into the rink and the boys being like, there are girls here.
Speaker C:Like, why are there girls here?
Speaker C:And now, like, there are women who are literally doing this for a living.
Speaker C:And they're.
Speaker C:People know who they are and people expect to see them at rinks.
Speaker C: he change from, I don't know,: Speaker C:It's so exciting.
Speaker B:So Maya, when you were, you know, when you had that experience as a child of like walking in and the boys being like, why are there girls here?
Speaker B:How many other girls were there with you?
Speaker C:I played on a girls team and there were two girls teams that year that I played.
Speaker C:So I would say like 30 kids.
Speaker B:And the girls teams played against the boys teams.
Speaker C:Just at that, at that age level, higher up, there were like probably three or four girls teams at each level.
Speaker C:And then when you get older, they start to tier them like they do with the boys.
Speaker C:So as you get, as you got older, there were more.
Speaker C:Also there were girls playing with boys at that time too.
Speaker C:Like girls hockey especially specifically wasn't as much of a thing.
Speaker A:So they didn't just like, what was it when I was.
Speaker A:They called it co ed and then you were the only girl.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, getting dressed in like a closet because you couldn't be in the boys locker room.
Speaker B:I was, yeah.
Speaker B:I was a team on a T ball team like that for sure when I was five.
Speaker B:What's the relationship?
Speaker B:Sorry, this is.
Speaker B:But when I was younger, we in gym class, we played ringette.
Speaker B:The girls played ringette and the boys played hockey.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:What is ringette?
Speaker C:Yeah, ringette has a ring instead of a puck and a stick that doesn't have like a blade on it.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:It's just a stick like straight up and down.
Speaker C:I used to think that people who played ringette were like way like softer than hockey players.
Speaker C:I was like, hockey is like the sport and then everyone else plays ringette.
Speaker C:But I have played ringette in, since I was in high school, like just on and off.
Speaker C:For people who needed a goalie, that sport is hard.
Speaker C:So I've changed my tune on that.
Speaker B:And it kind of makes sense.
Speaker A:Is this a made up thing in Canada?
Speaker A:Is reggaette like a real sport?
Speaker B:Reggaette is a real sport.
Speaker B:It's just like it's.
Speaker B:And it's not surprising for me to hear Maya say that like, you know, she like, culturally it was thought of as like Softer.
Speaker B:Because it was, at least for my generation, you know, 20 years before, I think girls.
Speaker C:It's only girls.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kind of like netball.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Okay, I just have so many more questions about Ringette, but we're blow right past that.
Speaker B:We'll circle back to Reggaette in a future episode.
Speaker B:Future.
Speaker A:So the pwhl, obviously there's been hockey leagues in the past.
Speaker A:I mean, same with, like, we see with soccer, like lots of women's leagues.
Speaker A:There's been ones in the past that then didn't last.
Speaker A:PWA challenge seems like it's pretty successful so far.
Speaker A:Tell us about this new season we're going into.
Speaker A:What are like the new things?
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What should we expect?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think the biggest thing going into this season is we're officially eight teams now instead of six.
Speaker C:So the league expanded in the off season to include a team in Vancouver and a team in Seattle, which is the first, like, western teams that they've had.
Speaker C:Everything else is in the east, and that included a very difficult summer for some of the teams because an expansion draft happened.
Speaker C:So a lot of really good players from the original six teams were taken by Vancouver and Seattle and are now playing on those expansion teams to the point where I was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and we were just saying, like, we don't know how any of the original six teams will be this year because they are so different than they were in their first two seasons.
Speaker C:Now that they've lost some of those people.
Speaker A:They did their expansion draft, like, actually kind of crazy because, like, when the WNBA expands like here, when we got our WNBA expansion team, they don't get the best players.
Speaker A:Like, you can protect your players, but like, the PWHL expansion draft is actually like, nope, we're gonna take like the best players.
Speaker C:Yeah, the.
Speaker C:The original six teams were only allowed to keep three players and eventually a fourth player was allowed to be protected.
Speaker C:But yeah, especially when you're.
Speaker C:When you have a league with such few teams and players and no, like feeder series kind of to bring people in.
Speaker C:Like, when you're taking those players, those are like Olympic gold medal winning players and like, yeah, some of the best in the world that are now on different teams.
Speaker C:So the fans of the original six teams were unhappy.
Speaker B:Unhappy.
Speaker A:I could see that.
Speaker A:It is hard because then you lose like a lot of the other fan base you've built up.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, so we have two new teams in Vancouver, Seattle, and you apparently don't know how any of the old teams are going to do so it's hard to preview.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker C:But I do believe that Vancouver and Seattle will be strong this year especially.
Speaker C:I mean, Vancouver, I obviously spend a lot of time paying attention to them.
Speaker C:They have really built their team to be successful in the next like one to two years and not so much long term.
Speaker C:They've signed a lot of older, more experienced players versus young players.
Speaker C:So clearly their goal is to win this season.
Speaker C:And I do think that's possible.
Speaker C:But it's always a very tight league, so you never really know who's going to win.
Speaker C:And we've had the same champion for the last two years and nobody expected them to win either time, so.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker C:That was Minnesota.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, give us like, give people who are not familiar a real quick.
Speaker A:Like when you say when, how long is the season?
Speaker A:What is the championship?
Speaker A:Like, how can they tune in?
Speaker C:Yeah, I don't remember how many games.
Speaker C:It's like 24 games season, I would say for each team.
Speaker C:The last year, the top four teams went to the playoffs, 1 versus 4, 2 versus 3 in a, I believe five game series on each side.
Speaker C:The winners of that went to a seven game series, I think in the finals to determine who takes home the Walter cup, which is their like championship trophy.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But also the teams are very closely matched.
Speaker C:So you often have teams that are moving around from like first to fourth or fifth off of just one game, changing the standings.
Speaker C:So it's very close.
Speaker A:And we kind of mentioned like there's been leagues before.
Speaker A:And my recollection when PWL started was it was a little bit messy.
Speaker C:Yep, for sure.
Speaker A:So what is it?
Speaker A:Because it kind of merged a couple of the leagues.
Speaker A:Tell us like, what exactly happened there.
Speaker A:Sarah's like, wait, I want to get more.
Speaker B:What do you mean by messy?
Speaker C:Yeah, so, okay, so I vividly remember standing in my apartment when this all went down.
Speaker C:But like, I think it's like, where.
Speaker B:Were you when literally.
Speaker B:Yeah, the messiness of the pwhl.
Speaker C:I think all women's sports fans have had this experience, you know, where like you have a league and then the league doesn't have any money anymore and so they fold and then something else pops up.
Speaker C:And so what was going on right before the PWHL was a thing is we had the PHF and then we also had the pwhpa, which is incredibly long name.
Speaker C:Essentially.
Speaker C:The PWHPA was formed by a bunch of players who didn't believe that the PHF could give them what they needed out of a professional Hockey league.
Speaker C:So they wanted higher salaries, they wanted better competition, they wanted all these things.
Speaker C:And so they essentially formed that league to say, we will not play in the PHF until things get better.
Speaker C:And then the PHF was just kind of like, also there.
Speaker C:Like, hey, we're also good at hockey, and we play, like, all the time and we have a bunch of teams and we're also here.
Speaker C:So people were definitely kind of split.
Speaker C:Like, I was a PWHPA fan because it was mostly national team players.
Speaker C:So it was all these players I grew up watching.
Speaker C:A lot of my friends were PHF fans because it was a lot of American college players who had gone into that side of things.
Speaker C:And so the split was real.
Speaker C:Like, there was definitely, like, definitely some, like, head to head.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker B:Why do all women's sports go through that growing pain, like, where the leagues literally are, like, competing leagues?
Speaker B:Like, it's like.
Speaker B:It's like we're thin on the ground already, people.
Speaker A:Because everybody thinks they're going to be the thing that succeeds.
Speaker A:Sarah?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I guess.
Speaker A:Why did you start another women's media company?
Speaker A:There are, like, ones that already exist, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and that's how markets work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But it does.
Speaker B:It is, like, very interesting.
Speaker B:These, like, you know, these early stages of, like, part of me is like, can't we just all work together?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I mean, like, it also depends on the ownership and who is taking charge in these things.
Speaker C:Like, we had some of those teams were owned by, like, NHL owners or very wealthy people in those markets.
Speaker C:But then the PHF was bought out by the pwhl, and the PWHPA kind of saw that, like, as what they had wanted this whole time.
Speaker C:So they were happy to be part of the PWHL as well.
Speaker C:What makes it different is that it has, like, we see in a lot of women's leagues right now, both celebrity and, like, rich people.
Speaker C:Like, ownership.
Speaker A:So the Walter investors.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So the.
Speaker C:The ownership group is the Walter group.
Speaker C:They own, like, the Dodgers, and I think they just bought the Lakers.
Speaker C:And so Mark Walter is very, very, very wealthy, and he owns all the teams.
Speaker C:There's no, like, separate owners per teams.
Speaker C:He owns everything.
Speaker B:Yeah, he owns for all the teams.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So they also all operate kind of the same, which is interesting.
Speaker B:Fully own all the teams or are there, like, minority ownership?
Speaker C:There is minority.
Speaker C:Minority ownership.
Speaker C:So, like, Billie Jean King was very involved in the creation of this league, but any, like, minor ownership is all in the pwhl.
Speaker C:It's not in individual markets.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Good or bad question mark.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker C:I think good to start, but eventually bad because it, there's not really a lot of like.
Speaker C:Like you're not competing with the other ownership to offer something better.
Speaker C:You know, like you're not saying here's why people should come to our team versus another team because everything is like run very similarly.
Speaker C:They also appear to have a lot of say over the personnel on each team as well.
Speaker C:So we've seen like general managers being let go from a league decision versus a team decision and things like that.
Speaker C:I think as the league expands both like monetarily and competition wise, they will start looking for other individual owners for those teams.
Speaker C:But I mean having that income is important.
Speaker B:If I was very wealthy and I decided I wanted to own a hockey team and I was just going to start it and I was going to like pay for everything and do all the things like I need to get one guy's permission to be part of the league.
Speaker C:To be part of the league.
Speaker B:Is that how that.
Speaker C:Yeah, you could have your own thing like unrivaled or whatever.
Speaker C:In the wnba, she's like, you can.
Speaker A:Start your own league.
Speaker B:I want to join.
Speaker B:I'm a work together person.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Currently.
Speaker C:I mean there's, it's possible that things like that have happened in these markets that are not being told.
Speaker C:Like we're not, are not being talked about, but it's all like overseen by the same guy, so.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker C:Or his group.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Do they make real money like the players so far, like now?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:They are not transparent about the salaries the way that like the NHL is.
Speaker C:There is like I've heard there's going to be a way for journalists to be able to request that information from the league eventually, but they haven't been super upfront about it.
Speaker C:There was a, an article that came out about Emily Clark making like $100,000, which is I believe all like estimates that kind of went around in the summer.
Speaker C:But these players are primarily doing this as their full time job.
Speaker C:In the past that was not the case with the old leagues.
Speaker C:They would work 40 plus hours a week and then play on the weekends and travel to make that work.
Speaker C:But now everyone is just doing this as their main source of income.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That doesn't mean they get paid well though.
Speaker B:No, it doesn't.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That's so.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker C:But they get paid better than they.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:That non transparency is probably part and parcel with the single ownership situation.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I Mean, we basically just asked like, is capitalism good?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Do we want competition?
Speaker A:Like, that was the central question.
Speaker B:Yes, exactly.
Speaker C:At my heart, no, I don't.
Speaker C:But that's probably what's going on.
Speaker A:But okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so we were kind of talking before the podcast started about hockey culture in Canada, which is obviously like super funny to me.
Speaker A:We were saying in the US because I'm like, hockey culture, like that's a thing.
Speaker A:But it has like a history.
Speaker A:Like male hockey culture has a history of being pretty toxic.
Speaker A:Pretty.
Speaker A:We could like superimpose football culture if we want to.
Speaker A:Like for hockey culture here in the us Pretty violent.
Speaker A:Pretty kind of like they get to do whatever they want.
Speaker A:How is women's hockey culture similar and different?
Speaker C:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker C:So I think they have like some similarities.
Speaker C:I'm actually just reading this book called Gay Misconduct by Evan Moore and Javi Jess via Shaw and it's basically all about this, but it's mostly about men's hockey.
Speaker C:I would say that some of the culture issues that are mirrored on both leagues would be racism, sexism, sec, like homophobia, transphobia, like as much as, well.
Speaker B:Just, just a few.
Speaker C:As much as, like, we do have like openly queer players and openly non binary players in the pwhl.
Speaker C:Obviously we're not solving the problem of homophobia just by that.
Speaker C:But I do kind of think that like in the hierarchy of privilege, women's hockey is lower than men's hockey.
Speaker C:So they're facing the stigma of being women in this league, whereas men are just like the top, the peak.
Speaker C:Like a male hockey player is kind of like the best thing that you could be in Canadian society.
Speaker C:Especially in small towns.
Speaker A:Sorry, sorry, that just made me laugh.
Speaker C:I wish wasn't true.
Speaker B:But like, yeah, I like that add on too.
Speaker B:Especially in small towns, the best thing.
Speaker A:You could be because yeah, people go.
Speaker C:To the rink to watch these guys like from like 14, 15 years old as like the entertainment for the town.
Speaker C:I think like growing up in Calgary, it's less that way.
Speaker C:But you knew like all the boys who were playing, you know, triple A or were going to like go to play juniors or go to college, like you knew who they were and they had this kind of like status.
Speaker C:There's also just like the idea of never being told no.
Speaker C:You know, I don't know if you have, like, you probably don't.
Speaker C:You might not have this in the US but like in Canada, if you go to a hotel during hockey season, there will be people playing hockey in the hallways of the hotel and they Just get to do that.
Speaker C:Like that's just a thing.
Speaker C:It's just kind of expected.
Speaker C:The men's players just do that.
Speaker A:So they just get to do what they want.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Guys, I feel like we could teach some American.
Speaker A:Stop it to.
Speaker A:To these guys.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I think it's getting better.
Speaker C:I do think there's like a focus on this now especially.
Speaker C:I think you guys will touch on this later.
Speaker C:But with the stuff that Hockey Canada has kind of been in the news for lately, I think there's a step towards that direction.
Speaker C:But I still think like drinking culture and hazing culture and things like that are so big in the men's side that it's going to take years to undo.
Speaker C:Especially when the coaches are of that previous kind of generation where it was just normal.
Speaker C:It's going to take some time to kind of weed that out.
Speaker C:But I don't think it's the same in the women's.
Speaker A:As I was going to say, it's like, obviously you don't have like the same kind of like male dominance type hierarchy, societal hierarchy structure stuff with women's sports, but does the hockey still have some of that, like hazing, that whatever the other words you just said there that I'm forgetting now, but you know, like kind of the tough it out stuff that comes with the sport?
Speaker C:I would say yes.
Speaker C:And I think, I mean, I think there's a level of that to like all organized team sports where the team is supposed to be what comes first and you put the team above individual decisions.
Speaker C:So that also leads to people not saying things that they maybe should say.
Speaker C:Not like being able to support people who are like the minorities.
Speaker C:I think, you know, it's less like I never experienced the like heavy like drinking culture or drinking teasing or anything like that.
Speaker C:I was also like, didn't play at the top level, so there could be some of that.
Speaker C:But I don't think it's to the same extremes.
Speaker C:I think there's other things like judging like body image or the way that you like I, I had captains when I was 13.
Speaker C:Tell me that like, oh, you're not pulling your weight, like, and they, they're like clicks and that kind of thing that you often see in like women's activities.
Speaker C:But I don't think it's the same extreme.
Speaker B:I'm okay, this is going to go a bit back to where we started, but I'm super curious, Maya, because as like a kid growing up, I was in Ontario, right?
Speaker B:I was almost like for some of the reasons we talked about, like I, I understood this, this toxic culture underlie that hockey had.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And I really kind of almost automatically dislike the fact that like boys had these opportunities and privilege to be, to eventually be a professional athlete at that level and be paid that kind of money that we didn't have.
Speaker B:And, and so for that reason, I was repelled a little bit by hockey.
Speaker B:Like, I almost have that opposite, like, that I've had to overcome like that opposite bias, which is like hockey, anything but hockey, you know, you're not alone.
Speaker C:In that for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I know, and I know that's like, not necessarily like a good reaction.
Speaker B:It was just like who I was as a kid.
Speaker B:But I'm very curious, like why you were drawn to hockey.
Speaker C:Well, my mom would tell you that it's because my best friend growing up as a kid, he was very into hockey.
Speaker C:That was what their family did.
Speaker C:He was like, believed he would be in the NHL from when we were like four and five years old.
Speaker C:Like that was his life goal.
Speaker C:He ended up playing like pretty high level hockey, but never NHL level.
Speaker C:I think part of it was just like, it was really fun.
Speaker C:It was fast.
Speaker C:I loved skating.
Speaker C:Like, I learned to skate when I was like two, so that was fun.
Speaker C:And then I got to be.
Speaker C:Then I moved into being a goalie, which I loved because, you know, you're like that last line of defense for people.
Speaker C:And I made a lot of like my best friends for years through hockey.
Speaker C:But I definitely also had some of that apprehension.
Speaker C:Like I knew when I would go and like sometimes, you know, fill in on the higher levels.
Speaker C:Like there was definitely some, you know, toxicity that way of just like mean girls type thing, you know, or like over sexualizing things or things like that.
Speaker C:But really, I think it'd be hard.
Speaker A:To over sexualize hockey, you know, Kelly.
Speaker C:With all of these people, like for hours.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:I mean, also, Kelly, you can't be that surprised, I mean, at our society's ability to sexualize absolutely anything.
Speaker A:You know, what to finish up.
Speaker A:What are you looking forward to?
Speaker A:Like, I know the Canada US rivalry just happened.
Speaker A:Obviously we have the Olympics coming up, which will probably be Canada, USC again.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:What are you looking forward to in hockey this year?
Speaker A:Like, what should we circle?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, so the season starts on the 21st of November, which is the week that this comes out.
Speaker C:So the first game is between the two expansion teams, Vancouver and Seattle.
Speaker C:So I think that will be super exciting.
Speaker C:There is a.
Speaker C:There are two more rivalry series games in Edmonton in December.
Speaker C:Canada should maybe make some changes before then.
Speaker C:And then, yeah, the Olympics, which really, like, if you ever want to hear me talk about why the Olympics are very important this year to what's happening in the chl, you can find me somewhere else because I will not bother you with that.
Speaker C:But that's very, like, impactful on this season.
Speaker C:And the season will take a break for the Olympics and then, yeah, it's just going to be kind of whoever, like how the teams shake out and the playoffs usually start in maybe.
Speaker C:There's also a bunch of games that will be played all across the US And Canada, even places they don't have teams, as they have done in the last couple of years.
Speaker C:Detroit, Chicago, Washington, Texas, I think.
Speaker C:And then a few places in Canada as well while they try and figure out where they want to expand next, because we might be getting two to four more expansion teams in the next off season.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker C:Stay tuned.
Speaker A:They're going to play a game in Texas.
Speaker B:Texas, yes.
Speaker C:No California games, though, which is interesting.
Speaker A:So I'm just telling you, when I was a kid, one of my extended relatives in Texas told my mom that his kids didn't play no fit foreign pansy ass force forward.
Speaker B:So, no.
Speaker A:So just keep that in mind.
Speaker C:The Dallas, the Dallas men's hockey team there actually has a really good women's program now.
Speaker C:So I think that's why.
Speaker C:But maybe you should take your relative to the Gatesley.
Speaker B:The fact that Kelly just said pansy.
Speaker A:On the podcast, pansy ass forward sports.
Speaker A:No kid of mine.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:Be clear, like, this is not like a relative.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:When you talk about, like, Southern family, you're like, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Extended.
Speaker A:Extended.
Speaker A:Extended.
Speaker A:I've never met them yet.
Speaker A:So anyway, just.
Speaker B:And just.
Speaker B:You touched on this a little bit, Maya, but I.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:Hockey is one of those sports where, like, especially at the women's game, like the Olympics, has continued to be central to their growth.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And in a way that, like, it's not been the same for the men's game.
Speaker C:Obviously, the men have not been there for a few years, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And the women's team haven't had, like, the professional leagues to actually making millions of dollars, which is.
Speaker B:They're still not, you know, that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think you just touched on.
Speaker B:There's some tension there, but am I right about that?
Speaker C:A bit of tension, but also just like, how do you get enough playing time in a very, very, very strong league to prove that you deserve to play for your country?
Speaker C:We've seen A lot of goalies leave and go back to Europe from the PWHL so that they can play a solid season of starting every game and prove that they deserve to be on that roster.
Speaker B:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:So it affects the whole league, people trying to qualify for their home country.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Probably because it's heavily American and Canadian.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And because there's a limited.
Speaker A:There's only eight teams right now, so there's got to be like limited playing time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Especially for goalies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which is what I think about like 247 all the time.
Speaker A:This is your Roman Empire.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Well, thank you, Maya, for coming and explaining hockey to us and I'm sure we'll have you back on as we get closer to the Olympics and the Canada US Rivalry.
Speaker C:So exciting.
Speaker A:I asked some other friends this weekend about Ringette.
Speaker B:Oh, you did?
Speaker B:Did.
Speaker B:Had anyone heard of regatta?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:They are convinced that the Canadians are making this up and that I should start making up American things and swearing.
Speaker B:That it's a thing.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I did look it up after because I was kind of shocked that you hadn't heard of it because, like, my memory of that is in, say, gym class in say junior high.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We would play our like, skating thing that we did.
Speaker B:You know, like for, you know, how you have like, whatever, like you focus on a certain sport for a few weeks.
Speaker A:Yeah, we played pickleball.
Speaker A:It was a fake sport until now, apparently.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker B:You played pickleball?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In junior high school gym class?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:I guess that doesn't surprise me.
Speaker B:Typically, like, things don't come out of nowhere.
Speaker B:People have been like, low key doing them for a little while.
Speaker B:Okay, so ring at.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B: ingette has been around since: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it was invented in Canada as an alternative to ice hockey for women.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So this, it's a non contact sport.
Speaker B:And like Maya described, there's kind of this ring, like we played it in gym class.
Speaker B:There's like this ring and you just have a stick that kind of like you.
Speaker B:You control the ring by putting your stick in it basically, and then you like skating around.
Speaker B:And I guess the game like over time evolved to be quite like fast and skills based.
Speaker B:Like, you know, like so many women's sports, like when you leave them to their own devices, the skills parts often like come out a lot more strongly.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:Like they're like, they really become very, very skilled.
Speaker B:So I guess it's fast, it's skilled, it's not contact.
Speaker B:They're not beating each other up like hockey and yeah.
Speaker B: It's been around since: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I still think I we're going to take a poll.
Speaker A:I want listener voicemails if anyone has heard of Ringette or if we think the Canadians are just making this up to with us because I think that's entirely.
Speaker B:But that would like, that would imply some kind of like Canadian conspiracy.
Speaker B:As if we all like meet.
Speaker B:We have the like Canada meeting where we say okay, what things should we make up just to, just to with.
Speaker A:This somebody last week in this whole whatever triathlon bullshit controversy someone accused just you know, you and me us of having an agenda the woke and mob have.
Speaker A:And I thought about this, I was like man, they really think we're like having woke mob beatings.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And being like what should we, what should we get worked up about this week?
Speaker B:Woke mob meetings.
Speaker B:I mean imagine if we did though.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:How much more effective we would be probably.
Speaker B:And if we like should communicated in groups about things that we wanted to make change over that would be maybe we should.
Speaker B:Maybe we should start a woke mob.
Speaker A:Woke mob meetings.
Speaker A:So yeah I'm not convinced that the Canadians don't have a meeting.
Speaker A:A group chat like screw with us.
Speaker B:Theorist in your brain runs deep.
Speaker A:All right, so allegedly ring it's a real sport.
Speaker A:Maya also obviously gave us a little bit of preview of this upcoming third season with the two new teams.
Speaker A:I was looking a little like we talked a little bit about the history.
Speaker A:There has been kind of as there are with like soccer like you mentioned attempts before at leagues that really just like couldn't make it.
Speaker A:Like didn't have the sponsors.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Viewers yet kind of had that like self defeating prophecy of like oh nobody watches women.
Speaker A:It seems like the PWHL is maybe finally cracked that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah I think so.
Speaker B:I A lot of it I think is to do with timing and the zeitgeist and you know it there was, it was to a certain extent true that it was difficult to create a women's league that was profitable even 10 years ago.
Speaker B:You know and so but the people who did are now who did and were successful have now been now been rewarded handsomely for that.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But yeah I think the, the timing right now for the PWHL to be here and growing is good and I really do hope it's.
Speaker B:This is the league that's here to stay.
Speaker A:I will say speaking of woke mob group chats, I remember like eight years ago when the US Women's hockey team was really like they Were being treated pretty shitty at a national level.
Speaker A:Like they wanted more pay.
Speaker A:They want to be, you know, they wanted like national team pay in better conditions and all this.
Speaker A:And they organized.
Speaker A:They were basically like, we're not going to go to the world championships unless you get it together and in order.
Speaker A:They asked the US Women's soccer team how.
Speaker A:They basically asked them, how have you guys organized?
Speaker B:Oh yeah, I remember.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker A:So I'm just like.
Speaker A:So I think they've done a good job.
Speaker A:I think basically the hockey, the women's hockey teams have really done a good job and like learn from like kind of getting buy in from all the players kind of working together, learning from other sports that have gone before.
Speaker A:Having a group chat woke mob.
Speaker A:Group chat.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I do.
Speaker B:Hockey and soccer have a lot of commonalities, especially in Canadian contexts.
Speaker B:You know, I think they're like both extremely popular sports here, especially for women and girls.
Speaker B:So yeah, I can see how they could learn from each other for sure.
Speaker A:In my head I think of hockey for you guys more like football for us where, because I mean we kind of touched on this where like there is this culture of, yeah, violence.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like a sport that is inherently violent then teaches especially boys that violence is like you're rewarded for violence.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it's really hard I think for people.
Speaker A:Then you go into culture and out into society and you're told like no, actually yeah, don't do those things.
Speaker A:Like I think that's.
Speaker A:And you're rewarded for it handsomely.
Speaker A:And you're told like these are the most important, the best people, the skills that are more valuable.
Speaker B:And the other thing that's happening in youth hockey, which is, is good to some extent but also sends a certain message is that like the, the violence or the contact as you would call it in hockey is only allowed after a certain age.
Speaker A:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you like, you essentially like learn that that's what the grown up hockey players do, but you're, you're not doing it.
Speaker B:It's a bit like flag football.
Speaker B:Football, sure.
Speaker B:But that, there's an interesting thing about that that like you graduate into.
Speaker B:It doesn't like contact in sport is fine, you know, but hockey obviously has this history of that going really far, letting it go far and that becoming part of the sport and then like literally players, male players physically fighting each other in the, in the NHL and then like they, and then had to like dial back from that and make some rules, you know, so.
Speaker A:And I think because Obviously, what we're kind of hinting at, we're getting at is that, like, that then creates, like, a culture of toxicity, like, acceptance around that sport.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, I mean, some of that's those people's fault, for sure, but some of it's also, like, built into.
Speaker A:I just think I talked to this former NFL player once, right.
Speaker A:Who, like, went on to become, like, a reporter and a journalist and, like, write a lot of books about the NFL.
Speaker A:And he was talking to me about.
Speaker A:People don't, like, how much you have to psych yourself up in the game for that level of violence and contact and pain and injury that then to, like, turn it off and go home and be, like, a normal person is actually Right.
Speaker A:Really crazy.
Speaker A:And, like, kind of, like, people don't quite understand.
Speaker B:Good on him for saying that out loud.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so I thought about that, though, too, then, because obviously hockey does not have that same cultural prestige in the US as it does in Canada.
Speaker A:But there was this player for the LA team that got in a lot of trouble a couple years ago for, like, domestic violence, as one should.
Speaker A:And somebody I like, one of my professors at the time, was like, he had come from one of the Eastern European countries and was like, well, you have to understand, like, it's just normal in Serbia or wherever it was.
Speaker A:And I was like, well, that's probably bad, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, I get it.
Speaker A:Like, we have to relearn new cultural norms, but also.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's a.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think one of the things for me, like, we.
Speaker B:We talked when Maya.
Speaker B:Maya talked a little bit about, like, hockey culture in Canada and the last few years, like, one thing that really shocked me coming back to Canada is from when I left, when I came back, we had decided to elevate junior hockey to a level.
Speaker B:And this kind of made me angry, actually.
Speaker B:Like, junior hockey's been like, a.
Speaker B:Like, a chip on my shoulder because I came back and I'm like, what, now we're putting junior hockey on TV instead of women's sports?
Speaker B:Like, literally, it went.
Speaker A:I've hinted to you about how now with the stupid college deals, we're watching, like, community college football.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:On, like, every channel on tv.
Speaker A:And I'm like, what?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you can't watch a woman, like, at the top of her game in almost any sport on mainstream television.
Speaker B:But, like, here's the.
Speaker B:You know, like, that was a very shocking moment for me.
Speaker B:But here's the junior team, and our.
Speaker B:And whole communities are getting behind it and going to Bars and watching it together.
Speaker B:And like, I understand it's like Canada's junior hockey team is a thing.
Speaker B:It's a thing to get behind, like, nationally, whatever.
Speaker B:But, like, there are so many women's teams that aren't on TV that are representing Canada that we could have got behind first.
Speaker B:So that kind of like, annoyed me as a newly, like, as I was like a newly retransplanted Canadian like a decade ago.
Speaker B:And then like, shortly on the heels of that, we had a lot.
Speaker B:We had a.
Speaker B:Basically it was revealed that Hockey Canada had like a secret fund that admitted that was designed to like, pay out settlements.
Speaker B:Settlements about sexual assault cases against players.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And that was a.
Speaker B:Obviously that was an insane explosion.
Speaker B:Like, a lot of their sponsors left.
Speaker B:Like, it was a real.
Speaker B:I know what you call it.
Speaker B:Like, that was when we all kind of learned how bad the behind the scenes culture of hockey was.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:There was like a massive junior sexual assault Kate, like, court case that kind of has dominated your highest headlines.
Speaker A:But it turns out that a lot of those things were being settled.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Idea that there was this fund that was settling sex sexual assault cases.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And a lot of them with this junior team.
Speaker B:The one that, like, the one that, like, I had the chip on my shoulder about, you know, it.
Speaker B:It was very.
Speaker B:I think that was very shocking for a lot of Canadians.
Speaker B:But since then, what's happened is, of course, a lot of the sponsors have like, quietly come back to Canada.
Speaker B:And then we had this big.
Speaker B:Maya talked about it a little bit.
Speaker B:We had this big court case where essentially that came down on the side of the players.
Speaker A:Like five players were accused of, my understanding is basically of like, rape and sexual assault.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, girl.
Speaker B:And a lot of it was right.
Speaker A:And as is the case with all of these kinds of cases, which I've learned from Law and Order.
Speaker A:It was like there were he said and she saids, and she had been drinking, but also she didn't consent.
Speaker A:Like, there's.
Speaker A:It's not like these things are ever super, super like.
Speaker A:And I think people don't.
Speaker A:Anyway, the point is that because of that, then my understanding the case devolved into like, well, maybe she wanted it.
Speaker B:And yeah, that kind of part of me that, like, just to like, go back to everything we've been talking about, it's kind of like, what did you like?
Speaker B:My same repulsion about putting like, junior boys, like elevating them to that level, putting them on television in a violent sport, in a.
Speaker B:In that macho kind of, you know, like, what did you think I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:What did you think was going to happen?
Speaker B:Like, none of it's a surprise.
Speaker B:So I don't really know like how the reckoning has gone since then because.
Speaker A:The, like, where we go from.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because the five players were eventually exonerated.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know.
Speaker A:My understanding is some of them are playing.
Speaker B:They're playing for the NHL.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know where exactly that stands now.
Speaker B:Like, and do we have to wait until something else really brutal happens and someone else sues them to find out?
Speaker B:Like, how are we changing that culture?
Speaker A:I mean, cultural change is always.
Speaker A:It's an interesting thing, right?
Speaker A:Because okay, so my husband works in politics and we always talk about like, you cannot mandate cultural change.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like from a, like an actual standpoint.
Speaker A:Like, what can we do?
Speaker A:Yes, you can make laws.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:And this is what I always laughed.
Speaker A:Whatever my old company, I was like, because people go like, a union isn't going to tell Zach to stop being annoying.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, don't be a.
Speaker A:Like that's not a thing you can regulate.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it does come from something.
Speaker A:Like the culture comes from what the president is saying and what is being done.
Speaker A:And if Hockey Canada has a fund.
Speaker A:And what happens when someone brings a complaint?
Speaker A:Do you pay them off or do you like, like, go like, yeah, how do you like, it's kind of like the whole like, what do you do with your kid when they do something wrong?
Speaker A:If you're just like, cover it up and ignore it.
Speaker A:They learn that lesson.
Speaker A:Or if you're like, yeah, sit them down and they have concert.
Speaker A:So I think that's where it's like, cultural change is impossible to like regulate.
Speaker A:But they get the message from all these things.
Speaker B:Well, exactly.
Speaker B:And that's like, I think about cultural change quite a lot.
Speaker B:Like, I think that's what we set out to, you know, contribute to in a way with Feisty is to go, okay, like, we definitely need the cultural change comes through maybe just having more women's voices, like people finding out, people learning that there are other like minded people who think like them, who also care about the same things.
Speaker B:You know, it just, that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's like everything that we do, you know.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was.
Speaker A:When you guys were talking or.
Speaker A:Well, we've been talking about this and you know how.
Speaker A:Well that's what the outcome is going to be if you tell these boys like everything you.
Speaker A:I was like, I read Bear Town, guys.
Speaker A:I know do you guys ever read that book?
Speaker A:Frederick Bachman?
Speaker A:It was like the same guy who wrote A Man Called Ove or whatever.
Speaker A:It's one of the problems.
Speaker A:Anyway, it's basically a hockey bad town, and one of the boys sexually assaults a girl, but then the whole town gets divided anyway.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think there's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway, it'd be interesting to see what happens next with Hockey Canada and if that can shift.
Speaker A:So that was our deep.
Speaker A:That was our explaining hockey to me.
Speaker A:Be like, it's like football, Kelly, but on ice.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:And also Somehow they play 3/4, not 4/4.
Speaker B:That's not how math works.
Speaker A:The PWHL season starts Friday and goes through what, February, March.
Speaker A:They're taking a break for the Olympics, like Maya mentioned.
Speaker A:And now we have a Seattle team.
Speaker A:Are you going to be rooting for the Seattle or the Vancouver team?
Speaker B:Vancouver, Kelly.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:There's hands down, no choice.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're excited.
Speaker B:I mean, Vancouver's had so many sports teams being added right now.
Speaker B:Women's sports team.
Speaker B:So between the soccer team and the hockey, there's always something to watch.
Speaker B:Vancouver now.
Speaker A:All right, our new segment that we started last week.
Speaker A:Brand new, done once.
Speaker A:As we were saying.
Speaker B:As we were saying, as we were follow up on a conversation from last week.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:It's going to be about the sex testing and the ioc.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:So last week, we were talking about how sex testing for the Winter Olympics is getting very unclear and kind of murky.
Speaker A:Not murky, but it was like, not like everybody seemed like they were trying to, like, hope nobody would bring it up.
Speaker A:And then literally the next day, after we were talking about this, it leaks that the IOC is considering a total.
Speaker A:Like the International Olympic Committee, which oversees all the sports, has to date, left it to individual sports, which is partially why it's been kind of messy.
Speaker A:And now the IOC is considering a total ban on trans athletes.
Speaker A:Got to get that one that's ever competed in the Olympics.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Well, this is what.
Speaker B:And I don't want to do another deep dive about sex testing today, because we've done it quite a few times.
Speaker B:But my favorite part of that art of the article that you linked to from.
Speaker B:Where was it from the New York Times announcing that the IOC was making this ban was like, at the very end, the last paragraph was like.
Speaker B:And only one, one openly transgender woman has ever competed in an Olympic Games, and that was the New Zealand weightlifter Lauren Hubbard, and who didn't record a.
Speaker A:Weight in Tokyo yet.
Speaker B:And she had previously competed in men's events and she came out as trans, transgender, transitioned.
Speaker B:But like, come on.
Speaker A:Well, the thing like.
Speaker A:So the IOC has announced anything this like, leaked because they were having like medical hearing, like presentations where people like medical researchers were presenting on.
Speaker A:But what's leaking now is that they may regulate testosterone completely across CIS and trans women.
Speaker A:They're going to regulate, I'm putting this in quotes, male levels of testosterone.
Speaker A:And my favorite comment from anyone so far has been, if a CIS woman has that level of testosterone, how is it a male level?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Of testosterone.
Speaker A:And I was like, good question.
Speaker A:Think about it, Think about it.
Speaker B:Yeah, my same comment from last week, like, when, you know, we're like, when women have some kind of physiological advantage, it's like they're not women, but when men do, they're like celebrated, become the.
Speaker B:Can become the best in their sport, et cetera.
Speaker B:So it's something, something feels off about that.
Speaker A:To me, something is off.
Speaker A:Makes no sense.
Speaker A:So that is our this week's update on the topic that we'll never.
Speaker B:We should have maybe.
Speaker B:This segment's actually called Meanwhile in Sex Testing.
Speaker A:Meanwhile in Sex Testing.
Speaker A:And of course, of course the reason the IOC is happening to like not having to it being like, like they've always been like, oh, hands off, like, up to the sports.
Speaker A:The reason that they is because the Olympics are going to be in LA and our fucking president is crazy and like making this his like, signature issue.
Speaker A:So, like, that's why it's coming to a head because they like, yeah, they're being not forced to, but it's like they can't ignore it.
Speaker A:With if, if the, if the US is gonna be like, we won't give visas to trans athletes, then it becomes like, well, what the hell are you gonna do?
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's the reality.
Speaker B:Okay, Kelly, who is your pick of the week this week?
Speaker A:I'm gonna pick Carissa Moore, the five time world champion surfer gold medalist.
Speaker A:She announced.
Speaker A:So she kind of said she was retiring and was and had a baby.
Speaker A:And I think there really haven't been.
Speaker A:Obviously we've seen women come back in other sports, but there hasn't really been in surfing yet, I think for a variety of reasons.
Speaker A:And she announced that she is actually going to come back.
Speaker A:She's going to be on the WSL tour this year.
Speaker A:She got a wild card.
Speaker A:I think part of the appeal is actually they've changed how they're like, they've made some changes in the tour.
Speaker A:So she could win another world title, just like kind of.
Speaker A:Or she thinks she could based on the changes, but it's been very interesting.
Speaker A:Anyway, kudos to her.
Speaker A:She's coming back and she's kind of awesome.
Speaker A:And she also already took her daughter surfing, who's like nine months, ten months.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:And people were making shitty comments about it, but it's like she knows what she's doing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's a five time world champion.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, don't worry about it.
Speaker B:Speaking of babies, do you have one that's crying right now?
Speaker A:Yeah, probably.
Speaker A:I. I think a person's like, whatever.
Speaker A:It's not my responsibility.
Speaker B:It's not your responsibility right now.
Speaker B:I've just.
Speaker B:We've never heard.
Speaker B:We've never heard him on the podcast.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Today'S the day.
Speaker B:Okay, my choice.
Speaker B:Femke.
Speaker B:I'm going to mispronounce her last name.
Speaker A:Sounds good to me.
Speaker B:K. O K is how it's spelled.
Speaker B:And she set a speed skating world record in the 500 meter and I guess she broke it by like 27 seconds.
Speaker B:So the old record was like 36.
Speaker B:36.
Speaker B:And she went 36.
Speaker B:09.
Speaker A:Oh, that's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I don't think that.
Speaker A:I think that's point seconds.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker A:That is not in minutes.
Speaker B:Oh, sorry, I meant.
Speaker B:Yes, sorry.
Speaker B:Sorry I said that wrong.
Speaker B:Yes, it's 36 seconds.
Speaker B:But she.
Speaker B:So she.
Speaker B:By almost half a second is what I should have said.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is like a lot when the record is just 36 seconds.
Speaker B:I was just trying to get.
Speaker B:I was trying to get my head around how fast that you're moot.
Speaker B:Like you're moving so, so fast for 500 meters in 36 seconds.
Speaker B:Speed skating is an incredible sport.
Speaker A:It is crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They had their world cup this past weekend.
Speaker A:It was in Salt Lake City, I believe, and there are a few American records and that world record got set.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, Femke, well done.
Speaker A:All right, thank you everybody for listening to your.
Speaker A:Your favorite sports.
Speaker A:Subscribe or follow on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, YouTube Music.
Speaker A:Share with your friends who also like sports and leave us a review.
Speaker B:Yeah, send us a voicemail.
Speaker A:Send us a voicemail will be in.
Speaker B:The show notes to how you do.
Speaker A:That and we will be back next week for an episode about eating disorders before Thanksgiving.
Speaker C:Sa.
