"I love hugging people with my words," says Simon T. Bailey. That he does - and so much more.

Simon T. Bailey is an exceptional writer, business thinker, and one of the most successful motivational speakers in the world. Simon is a force of nature on stage - a channel of boundless energy coupled with deep and practical wisdom. Simon OWNS the stage - and then Covid momentarily shut down the playground where he excels.

Simon has come roaring back, more in demand than ever, as businesses host mega-events again. My poignant conversation with Simon was recorded in the summer of 2021, when the pandemic had shut down the speaking industry. Savor this richly personal conversation as a hugely successful figure contemplates his next acts under changed circumstances.

Simon T. Bailey is a former Disney executive, award-winning author, NSA Hall of Fame speaker, life coach, television host and philanthropist, and one of the most celebrated motivational speakers in the world.

With more than 30 years of experience, Simon has worked with over 2000 companies in 50 different countries. He has helped countless people find their spark and unleash their unique brilliance within.

simontbailey.com

Simon Bailey is one of the most successful motivational speaker ins the world. He is a force of nature when he is on stage. Simon channels boundless energy which is couple with deep and practical wisdom. When COVID happen it momentarily shut down this playground for Simon, which he did extraordinarily well. Simon and I recorded in the Summer of 2021 when he was unable to be on stage. I invite your to savor this conversation.

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the my fourth act podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your for that. I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected for tax, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Let's get started. It gives me such great pleasure to welcome Simon Bailey to the My fourth act podcast. Simon is an acclaimed author, speaker, coach and entrepreneur and I want to add serial entrepreneur. He's written a bunch of fabulous books, the title that really stands out for me is shift your brilliance, harness the power of you, which is, I think important in all stages of life. But certainly in the fourth act, we have an opportunity to look at that in a whole new way. Simon is one of the most booked motivational speakers in the world. And he has been inducted in the National Speakers Association, Speaker Hall of Fame. And most importantly, I think if Simon Bailey as just a force of nature, and that's a high compliment. So welcome. Welcome, Simon. So good to be with you.

Thank you for having me.

In the fourth act, we talk about those moments when we shift into different stages in our lives. And sometimes it's planned and intentional. And sometimes the universe takes us where we didn't think we would go right. So the first part may feel a little bit like this is your this is your life, Simon Bailey. But the second half, we're really focused on what's emerging for you right now. When you're a boy or a teenager. Who did you want to be Simon?

So I grew up at a time when I used to watch Brian Gumbel and Jane Pauley, the NBC today show and I wanted to be the next Brian Gumbel that hosted a show on TV. So that was my aim. That was my goal. I want to be like him.

And was that a passing whim or lasting desire in your mind?

Oh, it was a lasting desire. And I got a chance to meet him about 20 years ago. And I actually told him that and took a picture with him. It was pretty cool.

Yeah, I used to run a theater company. And we did work around social issues. And Brian Gumbel loved us and had had us on a whole bunch of times. I'm a I'm a huge Brian Gumbel fan and remember meeting him. I didn't know you and I had that connection.

Yes.

Now as a grown up, you've had so many wonderful acts in your life already. But the one which sounds really sexy. So I want to talk about is you weren't you you were an executive at Disney. And Disney is this mythical magical place. So I'm curious, if you think about your time at Disney, because you left at some point, which is equally interesting, sir. And it's hard to leave mythical magical places I would imagine. Right? But what stands out for you is moments where you go, this is a moment where I went, Wow, I love what I do. Or, or this is a moment where you go, I can't wait to get the hell out of here.

I think probably there are three moments that stand out. Okay. That is I got a chance to be a character for a day and that is the whole getting you indoctrinated in the pixie dust. And so I was Tigger for a day is pretty cool. And then the second moment is when I went to Disneyland Paris to design and deliver a leadership program 4000 liters out of Barclays Bank out of London. Wow. While I was there in Paris is where I had the aha moment the epiphany. And I'm like, you know what, I think I may want to leave and go and do this for the rest of my life, teach and train. But I couldn't at that time because we had just had a little baby, who at that time Daniel was only 18 months old. So I couldn't like just up and leave and then probably the third moment is when I did decide to leave just think nothing of my dog by doing well. It was all my doing. I kind of committed the cardinal sin when I said I wanted to become CEO of the Walt Disney World Resort and eventually the chairman and CEO of the Walt Disney Company. And the journalists put put it in print. And it came out February 2002, page 12. In the Florida business trend magazine, haha, and full page with the Mickey Mouse topiary behind me. And my boss called me in the office, like, what the heck were you thinking?And that became the catalyst for me, exiting stage left.

I love that story in so many ways, Simon, because there are environments where people want you to claim the big stuff, which you just did. And their companies was not cool, because you're considered too ambitious to whatever, you know, to update to whatever it is, right. And my hunch is that in your own life, you support people and tapping into their big brilliance, right?

Yes.

When you work in a place that you know, I'm sure a lot of people went, Oh, my gosh, you work at Disney, right? Oh, my God, how cool. And then you decide to leave like what is what what are some other reactions you had beyond your business colleagues are among the decision to move on.

Some of them thought I was crazy. Some couldn't believe that I was leaving. And of course, this happened. Right? When the country is going to war with Iraq for the second time. Now, corporations were laying off by the hundreds of 1000s. And everyone said, play it safe. You know, you don't take the leap and start a business. I'm like, Are you kidding me? This is the best time to start because you ride the wave back up, you know that as you would talk to anybody, the real money is made in the dip. So I'd rather go for it and and swim upstream, to not listen to popular wisdom.

Without getting too personal. This comes out in my work all the time when we're ready to shift into something else. Was your wife ready to support you in this shift? with your family ready to support you? Because it can be hard if you're not fully supported and moving into something else? Right?

And that's such a great question. So Well, a lot of people don't know, before I left is the I put my resume out on the street just to see what would happen. So I got to Vice Presidents offers going to work at smaller companies, and no eternal move at Disney because one of the senior VPS felt sorry for me. And then I got a job offer from flex jet, which was a division of Learjet to head up all customer care for Lear jet owners in the world. And I turned them down, because my then wife said to me, whatever you decide to do, I'm with you. In the moment, she said that I was like, that's it. So I turned out all the four jobs and said, I'm gonna hang my shingle out and do my thing.

Beautiful. When you move to their process of offers sexy offers, turning them down. Did you ever think? Am I doing the wrong thing? Were you torn? Or was it just your wife's clarity that got you through?

It was my wife's clarity, because we were on the same page. And I believe that that time is a part of having the right spouse in your life is to help you see around the corner when you can't see, and to understand how you're wired. And I think what gave her comfort and knowing that I was going to take this risk, because she didn't she didn't work outside the home, there was not another source of income. We were not trust fund babies. We're not you know, from a blue blood family. It like had to work. But what she had realized over 18 months, I had started getting up at 430 in the morning, just working on this idea. And I did it before I went to work at Disney. So she saw that, at that hustle, that courage, that fortitude. She said, I'm with you. We'll figure it out.

Bravo. As I think of your next act, which is Simon Bailey, who wrote some amazing inspirational transformational books, and you become this beloved motivational speaker, but also know we don't get there overnight. So people asked, How did you find the courage to trust that journey in the beginning when the outcome wasn't obvious? And I always feel like it takes some chutzpah to say, I'm going to do that. Right. What inside of you, beyond your wife support allowed you to go there?

Yeah, so first of all, in the spirit of full disclosure, I have made this up for the last 18 years. Let's just be honest. Yeah, I'm all about strategy and the plan and you do this and do that, you know, budgets, but literally I have made it up. And a part of it has been intuition and gut. Now the other part has been input from people smarter than me. And then I think the third thing is forever remaining curious. And knowing there comes a time when you have to let go of what is comfortable and convenient in order to embrace what wants to emerge. So just intuitively 80% of your nervous system is in your gut. And, and so intuitively just saying, Okay, it's time to shift. Okay, let's try this. And guess what, I have had more failures that I can count on both hands. But I'm here to tell you, in the words of john Maxwell fail forward, yeah, I was interviewing a CEO over in Tampa a few years ago. And he said, he gives out the fail the failure award. And I followed him if you're later. And he said, he said, I still give out the award. But it's called the fail faster award.

That's beautiful.

I just, I just kept failing and moving forward. And hopefully got a little bit wiser along the way.

But let me let me probe a little more. This is what I remember. Because you and I have crossed paths before, but I could be wrong. But if I remember correctly, your first book, it was one of those situations where you have books in the trunk of the car. And you, you you're selling your own books, which takes in my mind, it takes tremendous courage, tremendous faith, there may have been some fear behind it. And I'm inviting you tell the story, because a lot of our listeners may be ready to shift into another phase, where success is not guaranteed, right? Like what are some experiences from that time that stand out for you?

So the first thing that's Top of Mind is I self published the book, release your brilliance, and decided to send out a query letter to the publishers because they we were taught back then you're not a real author. And unless you're published by the big six, right, six firms. Well, I got 13 rejection letters from New York to Los Angeles. And it was a dear job, you know, no, sorry. Until I went to speak in Las Vegas. I'll never forget it. I remember it like yesterday. And there was a woman there who was on the board for Hudson news. And she came up to me and she said, do you do you have a book deal? I said, No. She says I'm on the board. For Hudson, I'm gonna introduce you to a guy named Joe a deed of Israel, who at that time was the CEO. And I didn't know anything about Hudson, but they were the largest book purchaser for airports in the world. Yeah. And Joe hurt me. And he walked me next door at Mandalay Bay and introduced me to all of these publishers. And he said, This guy just spoke at our event, he got a standing ovation, we want you to get him give him a book deal. We're the largest purchaser of books. And I said what and this is after the 13 rejections of video rejections from from the publishers. But I realize sometimes you need a sponsor, yes, speak on your behalf and leverage their influence. And that's what Joe did for me. So sure enough, about a month later, I'm in New York City with an agent. And we meet with five different publishers. By the end of the day, we have three offers on the table to buy the rights to release your brilliance. And we ended up going with Harper Collins, who at that time gave me a six figure advance. And it was the perseverance of selling out of the back of my trunk, ever giving up when everybody was looking at me weird and what they didn't know. I had a mortgage to pay. I had to buy. It was real for me. But it's that perseverance, I think that God has the opportunity with HarperCollins.

First of all, congratulations. That's a fantastic story. But what I'm also thinking of and I think it relates to, to your work around brilliance is that in the end, the more we have the courage to be who we really are meant to be, and show that the universe conspires to help us out, which is what happened with you. I mean, people got to experience Simon Bailey and the universe says, Yes, let's help him out. Right. But what what has taken for you to and I see it as a compliment. I think of you as a big personality. You can fill big spaces. I would imagine at some point, some people will say, hey, tone it down, Simon, but you're letting it out. Was that easy for you to do? What did you have to do mentally to say, Okay, I'm just is going to be Simon, I want to own this stuff. Yeah, it probably happened when I started working with our mutual friend Jane warlow, who has been an executive coach and someone that has greatly influenced me. Jane invited me to be an MVP, most vulnerable person. And and what I mean by that is to show up in a fresh way. And in fact, I'm writing about that whole experience is understanding that vulnerability does not mean you're less masculine. vulnerability is you're more honest with yourself first. And then you're honest with everyone else. And what I recognized is I was showing up in the world as an annoying echo instead of an original voice. And the moment I said, Yes, that I like me, I love who I am. And I don't have to be anyone else. Amazing things happen.

16:02

Well, first of all, shout out to Jane warrillow, who is an amazing coach and a mutual friend. Yes. But I could imagine that somebody is listening to us right now and thinking, shoot, I hope I'm not an annoying echo. So how do you differentiate for yourself between being an annoying echo? Because we get rewarded for being annoying echo sometimes, and, and going into the deeper space? How do you do that dance?

Yeah, so I'll give you a prime example. Just yesterday, I spent time virtually with 1500 leaders with Stanford health care, who are a part of Stanford University, and had a long conversation with the executive that brought me in. And one of the things he said, you know, our folks are into deep research. And I said, Okay, I got it. We love to hear what Harvard is doing. I said, Okay, got it. So when I showed up, I cited the points that I was making with research to back it up. But I told my first person stories, yeah, and I shared my content. And what I recognized when I started to embrace my story, and share my story, but even when I made points to back it up with research, it felt like a natural fit to me, and it wasn't forced. And I stopped being that echo that sounded like everyone else. So I could cite, oh, have you read this book by Dr. Carol Dweck? Or have you read this book by Peter Drucker and I could cite it, but then shift in some so here is let me synthesize what it means to me. And when I when I had that epiphany, that's when everything took off, that I didn't have to sound or look like Les Brown, or Zig Ziglar, or Jim Rohn, or any of them, I just had to be authentically Simon T. Bailey,

I'm going to put in my own language. And if I'm bastardizing, what you said right now, correct me, but what I heard is, it's great to have the research context and all the data. But in the end, people want to connect with our essence, when we can connect with the essence of others, then beautiful things happen in the world, right? And when we don't allow that it's a little harder. Here's a word from our sponsor. That's me. I invite you to check out my fourth act calm. There's a whole other world of fourth act conversations going on, beyond this podcast, my fourth act.com, please take a look. Now, because you've had this wonderful ride as a public speaker, as an author, I mean, you're just I've done such awesome work. You use the language, tell my own story. What I know from my own experience, as we step into different stages, our stories about ourselves change as well. Right. The This is the story of Simon Bailey, you know, from Buffalo, who wanted to be Brian Gumbel, has probably changed along the way. And I can tell different stories about who I am as well. So how has your story Have you changed? How does it keep changing?

Yeah, So I tell people I've reinvented probably five times and on my fifth reinvention, right now. But here's, here's what I'll tell you. Now, the moment I realize that I am flawed, I am perfectly imperfect. And it's okay. Not to be okay. When I came to that understanding at 52 years of age, that it is not about perfection. It is about internal connection. Yeah. It's not about money. It's about meaning. It's not about success, climbing the ladder of success. It's about significance. And when I came to that understanding, this is going to sound so simplified, I let go of having to think I needed to do and gave up the to do list and should have a to be list and to be a better human being. So point in case, I've been tremendously impacted by watching what has happened with COVID, nine down. And I said, What if I'm in service to others and begin to give, you know, and help with food and security, and so many people have economic uncertainty. And what I recognize is, the more I began to give, to help the least the last the last, it opened up something in me, I'm like, oh, my goodness, that's the purpose of humanity. It is about helping lift someone up and give a hand up instead of a hand out. And when I got it, I shifted from me to we, and it's in that weakness of being in service to another human being, that I realize I need you. You need me.

We can have the podcast right now. But we're not. So that was such a wonderful way of explaining it. Because you're animated by big forces, I want to talk about the COVID sure experience in a moment, because I my hunch is that's a whole other new Act for you. I want to use the word the divine, you know, we have different relationships with the divine to God to higher power, whatever it is. So for me, it's a connection to the divine. The more I trust that as it enters me and moves through me, the easier my life gets, sigh. You talk about trusting your gut, you talk about all of these things, what's the role of the Divine or whichever language you use in your life as you move into bigger spaces of being?

Yeah, so without God, I say that I am nothing without God, I would fail without God, I would be like a ship without a sail. So for me, the divine God runs very deep. It's how I start my day, by meditating, focusing on how do I be in service today, by first of all examining my shortcomings, and my areas of opportunity, number one, number two, how do I ensure that I'm not judging anyone based on their socio economic status, their ethnicity, their sexual preference? How do I just not judge, but live in a place where I honor whoever's in front of me virtually or in person. And then probably the third thing is being intentional to always admit that I didn't get it right. But I want to get better. And the divine helps me with that self awareness piece, that you know what you really jack that up right. Now, years ago, I would like to brush it under the rug. Because my ego, which is edging greatness out, was so big. And when I let go of the ego and say, You know what, it's about being honest with yourself first, before you honest with others, and the divine helps me with that.

I'm glad. Because we all experience the divine differently. But most people have a connection to God or whatever your definition of it is. It's not an idea. It's an it's a conscious, intentional. It's also an in the body experience. Could you give us a glimpse of how you experience God? Is it possible to give us a snapshot since that is an animator for you?

Yeah. So how I experienced God, especially getting through this COVID 19 time is there have been moments when I have felt hope, less self isolation, quarantine, whatever you want to call it, right? And it's in those moments when I receive a phone call or a text or something in the mail from someone and I said, How did they know that lets me know that the divine already knew that I would be at this moment in time, already pre arranged for someone to do something that was just a hunch or inkling they didn't know why they were doing it. And and that message for me was the message in the bottle. It was the carrier patience of the soul. It was a way of someone hugging me with their words that lets me know that the divine hadn't forgotten about me and that the divine exists. And so now I live every day with this awareness. How is the divine going to surprise me today? So for instance, to be able to wake up in the morning and to walk outside here in Florida and receive the vitamin D In the sunshine, I'm like, Wow, what a great state we live in, to even go on a big beach person. So when I can go to the beach, and to see the ocean, it just goes for miles and miles. I'm like, there's a divide here, you know, to be able to have our five senses. So I use every day, every moment to be grateful because somebody went in the hospital last night with COVID-19. And they did not wake up this morning. Here, I am here. So forget the bills, and everything else on the divine lets me know that I can have this moment with you. That's how I experience the divine.

And what touched me is I don't want to oversimplify it is, you started with talking about the message of the phone call and knowing that when the phone rings, it's divinity calling, I know that, and the glimpse of the beaches, divinity speaking to me, but that requires a consciousness to be able to see it and feel it and receive it, which then creates more and more of it. I love and appreciate your specific examples. You've already alluded to it. So I'd like to spend the rest of our chat. And let me say it this way. I think if you emphasize a high compliment as a stage animal, you are, you are you own this stage, your energy's amplified on stage, you're able to touch sometimes 1000s of people when you are on stage. And then COVID happened. And for now, that was taken away from you. You alluded already to some of the changes you circumstances are propelling you into new wisdom and to new acts. I'm gonna keep that open. So what's been emerging for you? What's that journey been Like?

Yeah. So it started with spark hope, where I was just so concerned about the despair, globally, as we have gone through this pandemic of Professor David Williams at Harvard says we're all on the pandemic ocean, but some people are in different boats. Right? That's right. Oh, I said, we got to spark hope. So we as you know, we did you participate in virtual sessions that we did, we reached people we gave back then we went to spark growth. So now what's coming up for me is that whoever has the most hope has the most influence. That's number one. So we're going to be launching. And this is probably the first time I'm saying this publicly, because we've been sitting on it for about the last year or so. But I'm getting ready to launch a Web TV show called spark you

Way to go, Simon, I love that.

Because I think we got to help people restart their restart, right? So we're just feature stories and examples of people who found that spark again, and what they specifically did. So I'm really, really excited about that. And then I just had like another idea in the show, I said, we have to find time to feature organizations that are on the front line of helping people globally who are hurting. So when you look at chef Jose, Andreas with kitchen, right? How do we now bring what they're doing to the world to just you know, who we're reaching, and say, guess what, you can be a part of this, that is lifting humanity up, I get chills just talking about it. So So think of larry king, meats. There's a guy years ago called Tony Brown, Tony brown journal really big in the 80s and 90s. So Tony brown journal meets larry king, and I'm just going to have conversations. We're going to videotape it to really just spark hope in people so they can learn and earn by caring and sharing.

First of all, congratulations, and thank you for sharing that with us. But what strikes me again, I'm thinking about the journey of every is listening to us, that you are expanding into something the origins of which had already been there within you, you know, you the notion of sparking, and the importance of sparking has been part of your work for a long time and but you're moving into another arena, because you're gonna feel like this total abrupt departure. No, it's an expansion, right?

Yes, totally. And it only would have happened because of and I don't mean to sound sound disrespectful and what I'm about to say, but for me, COVID-19 has been a gift. It has been the gift of quietness, self reflection, and what really matters and what's meaningful. And because I've just had to sit right, and write and listen and sometimes cry, sometimes smile and laugh, get through the loneliness of what am I supposed to do to count to? This is it. So now to bring it full circle? What I told you I really admired Brian Gumbel. Yeah, like 52, right. And when I saw Brian Gumbel, I was like 1415. So here I am. Just my own little way to hug people with my words.

That's a beautiful.to Connect. Thank you for doing that. So talk a little more about the dropping into more quiet, yes, which was imposed on many of us, because the dropping into quiet can lead to despair, it can lead to feeling hopeless. at its best, it can lead to a discovery of things that were always there. But we were hiding because we were too busy, right? Give us a little more flavor for somebody, I see you at least in public as super high extrovert. And that may just be a persona. I know there's so much more to you. But give us a sense of what walking into quiet was like for you beyond what you've already said.

So one of the things that I've been challenged with in the spirit of full disclosure over the last year is sleeping. And I tell people the importance of sleeping. But I will wake up at 230 in the morning after going to bed say at 9pm and will wake up 2:30am bright eyed bushy tail and cannot get back to sleep now. So instead of tossing and turning, I decided to get up. And I would write in my journal or I would just sit quietly, and just listen to a soundtrack of ocean of the ocean, right? Try to quiet myself. And then after a while, I realized, wait a minute, if I'm going to be up at 234 o'clock in the morning, let's really use this time to kind of listen and lean in. So I started processing my father's death. My father's been passed almost eight years. And my father had never told me that he loved me until he was passing on his deathbed. And I was struggling to understand why didn't I tell my son that I loved him? So I'm processing that. I'm thinking about the relationship with my mom. And she's at now, what are some things that we need to address? But I've started using this time of quietness. You know, Mark naipo. In EPO wrote a book called 7000 ways to listen. Yeah, what I'm really understanding is that the same letters that spell the word list and spell the word silent. And I am a person who at times, has has to be the smartest person in the room, I've had to let that go on I in time past have all the answers, I have to let that go. I have been the person that is always busy, but not effective. And understanding when you get silent, you come to a place of unconscious incompetence, where you truly say, I don't know what I don't know, now reach that place that I believe the only time you reach that place is when you're quiet.

So thank you for giving all of us in need sense of what's emerging in the silence for you. I just got back on Sunday from spending a week in Germany with my 96 year old mother. And we we have said everything to each other. We're pure love right now. But one thing I've learned in maybe this is a fourth act message is to have the courage to talk about everything with our parents with our loved ones and ourselves. Because I used to think that my mom couldn't contain it. So I would give a sanitized version of me. And the truth is she can hold it. And the problem was that I couldn't hold a more complete version of myself.

Wow.

Right. Thank you for sharing where you are with your journey. I have a couple of questions I asked at the end of each podcast and one is from your current vantage point. As somebody who is expanding, emerging into new ways of being and coming from a place of curiosity, I love that you use that word. If you were to whisper some words of wisdom into younger Simon's ears based on what you know now or maybe you wish somebody had said this to you when you're young boy, what would you say to young Simon

I would say first of all Even though racism is real, learn to understand that love and respect, have no color. So even though things are projected to make you think that life is limited, do your own work, read, read, write, understand, and become the best possible human being that you can become. While you're here on Earth. I would tell my younger self that for sure,

beautiful. If you were an economics feel presumptive to say if you were to share some wisdom with our listeners, but I'm going to go there anyway. Simon, okay. So your full warn. our listeners have already had rich full lives, but they're emerging into maybe their late 50s or 60s or 70s. They don't want to traditional retirement, what kind of wisdom or guidance would you give to them around how to move into I call it the fourth act, but other acts, what would you say to them,

I would say, as you are moving into significance, take a moment, record a video for anyone that is meaningful in your life. And tell them what you think about them how you value who they are, what you need, what they mean to you. And the reason I say a video, because that video will live longer and long after you're gone. And your great great great grandchildren or great nieces or nephews, they will have just that moment to say, wow, this is what he or she thought that's the first thing. The other thing that I would encourage you to do is to write a letter to all of those that are meaningful to you a letter or handwritten note. And yes, this is a page out of the movie that I've seen a dozen times the notebook.

Okay, it bears repeating.

But write the note. Now the moment it hits you, because they will hold on to that forever.

I listened to you and my translation was be in love on the love speak the love, you know, and I love that you've made it so concrete for us. Now, as you look to the future, your own future, the future of others, society, the planet anyway, they want to think about it, that I'm going to keep it open any thoughts as you look to the future.

You know what to be alive on planet Earth at this time, wow, to to witness all of the innovation and breakthroughs and everything that's happening. But the one thing I would encourage all of us to do is be in the service of being a human being not doing everyone that crosses your path. They are not placed in your path by accident. It costs nothing to say good morning, good afternoon, good evening to smile, just for that moment, because you never know what people are going through. And if you just take a moment to be kind Alright, so quick, quick. Emory University is really some research that says, when you are giving to another person, it doesn't have to be monetary, but just kind gesture, the reward center in our brains begin to light up. And literally, we experience what they call the helpers. Hi. Because when we do something for someone else, yes, it is almost as if we were on the receiving end of what we just give it. So when I talk about being more human and having this helpers, hi, treating human beings no matter where they are, with kindness, if we can do that, what a planet we could have.

Amen, Simon. I'll go with that. As we complete, you're a public figure so people can find you easily. But if you were to guide folks, won't be the best place for our listeners to get to concrete information about you. Where do you want to send them.

Sure thing, go to www.simontbailey.com T like, terrific, everything's there.

I love the way you say t like terrific.

Yeah, we can have a little fun.

You gotta have a little fun. Thank you, Simon for your generosity of just being in spirit. It was a total pleasure to speak with you.

Thank you, my friend.

You're welcome. Like what you heard, please go to my fourth act COMM And subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on Twitter. platform of your choice, rake us, give us your review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao