Shownotes
It's an exciting one this week because it is 5 years since I started this podcast! Thank you so much for being here.
As I was looking back I thought it would be fun to catch up with a past guest, and see how things are now. So I am thrilled to welcome back Melissa McCall of Moving Little Minds, who first appeared on the podcast almost exactly a year ago.
Moving Little Minds provide literacy focused teacher and parent workshops, online courses, and teacher support materials that use research-backed methods in fun and engaging ways.
Melissa originally launched her business selling early literacy products to parents, but in the past year, she’s made a big pivot—now focusing on preschool directors and teachers instead.
She shares the lessons she’s learned, from launching on Amazon and stocking boutiques to realizing who her real customers are. If you're a product-based business owner, you’ll love this honest, behind-the-scenes look at the ups and downs of finding your niche, refining your products, and learning what it really takes to grow a business.
USEFUL RESOURCES
Melissa's First Podcast Appearance: Episode 205
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Mentioned in this episode:
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My membership, Amazon Made Easy is now open. It’s a membership for people who are selling on Amazon (or planning to) and want regular access to support, somewhere to ask questions and talk things through, and a bit of structure and accountability as they grow. Inside, there are live Q&A calls, optional co-working sessions and a small, supportive community. Find out more: https://vickiweinberg.com/membership
Transcripts
Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.
I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started.
issa came onto the podcast in:We've recorded our first episode almost a year to the day. So when Melissa first came on the podcast and I will link to this episode in the show notes.
When she first joined me, she had just launched her business, Moving Little Minds selling Literacy Products to Parents. And we said at the time of that recording, because she was so early on, we said, let's catch up in a year and see what's changed.
And a lot has changed. And I really think you'll be interested in hearing about how Melissa's first year's gone.
I don't want to give you any spoilers, but she's now selling similar products but to a different customer. And she's going to explain how she got there, all of the learning she's got from the past year. She has so much useful advice to share with you.
It's brilliant to speak to someone in real time about what the first year of their business has been like.
If there are any guests that I've spoken to, by the way, that you feel that you would like to hear what they're up to now, maybe someone from years ago, please let me know because I'm always happy to have people back on the podcast as long as they would like to speak to me. But for now, I would love to reintroduce you to Melissa and you to find out everything she's been up to. So.
Hi Melissa, thank you for being here again.
Melissa McCall:It's great to see you again.
Vicki Weinberg:It's so nice to catch up. Can you please remind everyone who you are, tell us about your business and what you do and sell.
Melissa McCall:Absolutely. So I am Melissa McCall and I'm the owner of Moving Little Minds.
At Moving Little Minds, we specialize in bringing research based preschool teacher instruction and merging that with play. So our biggest focus is training teachers in how we can improve early literacy instruction. But that doesn't mean we are drilling children.
It's looking at ways that we can take what the science shows and research and merge that with fun, engaging activities.
Vicki Weinberg: were first on the podcast in:So can you please remind everyone where you were with your products when we first spoke a year ago, just for some context.
Melissa McCall:Absolutely. So a year ago my biggest focus was on preschool parents.
So I had just developed a product still doing the same role, which is I'm in classrooms with preschool teachers and children, but I found parents to be my target. So I had developed a product that brought fun, engaging activities in the home that just takes a few simple minutes.
So a tear off style calendar that you can do an activity in just a minute.
Vicki Weinberg:Amazing. Thank you.
And so when we last spoke a year ago, we said we would have you on after a year or two to see how you were going because I think at that point you had just launched them. Is that right?
Melissa McCall:That's right. So I, a year ago when we had spoke, I had launched them of course to my local network. I'm in a ton of schools around the area, so got them out there.
I currently have them in four boutiques in the area and I went through the process of getting them on Amazon. So I went ahead and did fba. And yeah, so that was kind of my journey probably three to six months after we spoke. And yeah, so that's where I was.
Vicki Weinberg:Amazing. And so. Well, let's talk about what's changed for you since then. And there's obviously a lot to cover, so we can take this a piece at a time.
I mean, let's start with how did it go on Amazon? So you got set up, then you sent in stock for fba. How did it go from there?
Melissa McCall:Well, it was rough getting it set up. But you. I attended your webinar and that helps me a lot what I found because the product is it's like a tear off five by five type calendar.
I had logged it as a book and so that was creating a lot of issues with needing an IBSN I believe is what it's called. And so after I finally realized that I could tag it as something different, I did get it up on Amazon.
I sent very few quantities just because I wasn't really willing to invest a ton of money in the product at the time. And I actually was really impressed with the support that they have for first time owner or first time FBA customers.
So I did have some calls with an Amazon employee that helped me with some stuff for a couple months, which was really helpful. So yeah, that's how I got it up and going. And I can tell you A little more about how the sales have gone, if you'd like.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, do. And I also have to say everyone listening from the UK will be really jealous about it because we don't always get that here in the uk.
Melissa McCall:And the funny, the funny part about that was I got these. I kept getting this email from somebody and, you know, support is tough at Amazon and so I just thought it was some sort of spammy sell thing.
So finally I was like, whatever, I'll click and set it up. And I was really pleasantly surprised that it was actually a real Amazon person helping me.
Vicki Weinberg:So that's really good. And how did this, how did the sales go?
Melissa McCall:So sales. I still have a few on there, but I'm going to go ahead and shut down the FBA part. It's just I'm not making my, my money to, to have it there.
The hardest part for me is with a preschool product, I'm literally. And you talk about this all the time, but I'm on page like 60,000 or something. Absolutely insane. And so we can talk more how my business has evolved.
I've learned that my market is more preschool directors and preschool teachers. And so the product isn't really fitting my current line. Maybe eventually I can hire and expand and go back to that parent market as well.
But what I found that I'm really good at is focusing on the teachers. And so I haven't really been willing to put the money into ads and going to trade shows and that kind of thing.
It's just not a season of my life with two children and where I am right now. So I'm kind of slowly going to let that inventory sell off and just pause the shop for now.
Vicki Weinberg:That makes absolute sense.
And as you say, if your target market is preschool directors, they're not going to be going on Amazon, I assume to find their resources, they're going to be going to other places. So that makes a lot of sense. And does the same go for. You mentioned you were stocked in some boutiques, cheeks close to you.
So does the same go for that as well? Were you sort of letting go of the product side for the moment?
Melissa McCall:So I have, I still have them in there and I, I've done some updates. I actually did a product focus group with the products probably three or four months ago just to get some feedback. And I've made some minor tweaks.
But also what I found through the feedback was it's going to take like a major revamp. A lot of the parents want it reusable. They found that like their child wanted to do the same activity again and again.
And right now it's designed as like a tear off, like a one and done. So I got some really great feedback and I can make some minor tweaks like they want to see the age on the front, which makes total sense.
If you go into a bookstore and it's on the shelf but it doesn't have an age, you're not going to be as likely to pick it up. If you have a three year old and it says three right on the front, you're going to pick up.
So I've done some easy tweaks based off of that feedback and I have a local printer that I use that I love so I can order those small quantities. So I'll continue to keep it up locally. I have had a few, you know, restocks, so that's brilliant.
Vicki Weinberg:But it sounds like the products aren't your main focus at the moment, is that fair to say?
Melissa McCall:Exactly. So what I found, I am developing some new products but they're more focused on the teachers.
And the exciting part about the product is sometimes you think about it's not like as a failure, but it is not a failure.
It's simply I can take all that work and I can pivot it and I can use those activities that I have in that product and start tweaking it and reusing it and repurposing it towards preschool teachers. So that part's exciting.
Vicki Weinberg:That's really exciting. And will these be physical products as well?
Melissa McCall:Yes. So I. One of my biggest sellers is teaching the body, the sounds through body motions. So I've always had these flashcards out.
But one of the lessons that I've learned over time is, you know, if you want to have a quality product, it can't be completely DIY like. So I've just this week picked them up. I hired a graphic designer to take what I've done and really revamped them and so I'm really excited.
So that's the lesson that I did learn.
Like, yes, we can do a lot ourselves, but if you really want a high quality product, you're going to have to invest in someone who's a professional at. At what? At what you want to sell.
Vicki Weinberg:So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so you've got these new products as they're designed for teachers. How will you be selling those?
Because I guess they're not going to be going onto Amazon. I think might have seen them on your website. So how will you be getting these out to people.
Melissa McCall:So I'm going to do a relaunch soon, mostly focusing on my email list and social media. But one thing that I did learn from the previous product is that you, you have to have a marketing plan.
Like, I think I was a little bit naive and like, oh, like, I have like 3,000 followers. Everybody's gonna want it. Like, no, you have to have a plan. You have to talk about it a lot. So being more purposeful.
So I have them ready and sitting in my house. And in the past, I would have just, bam, put it out to the world. But that's not the most effective marketing technique. Right. You have to have a plan.
So I'm sitting on them. I'm going to be getting better pictures and making sure that I have a true launch.
They will sell on my website, and they also come in the curriculum that I sell. So those will be my main forms right now, will just be my website. I might consider.
They do have flashcards on Amazon, so depending on how they go, I do, they're perfectly usable for teachers as well. That's what's kind of fun about preschool, is that it's preschool, right? A parent could do it. A homeschool family or a teacher.
So that product does really cross both markets.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that makes sense. And it sounds like your. Your main customer going forward is going to be teachers, preschool directors. What was it?
And sorry to go back to this, but I just think it'd be really interesting for people. So what was it that made you realize, oh, okay, this is my customer? Because you were so focused previously on parents. What was it that helped you to.
To make that change?
Melissa McCall:That's a really good question. So, and the funny part is, I finally evolved into who is the buyer? And even before, I was focusing on teachers.
But when it really comes down to it, a preschool teacher doesn't have the big, big salary, right? And so I have a neighbor next door, and she is very capable of buying my products.
She's a preschool teacher, and when I show her the products, guess what she says, our director needs to buy those for us. And so after three years, I've finally been like, oh, it's preschool directors.
The thing that got me to pivot away from preschool parents is one, it's. It's a pretty saturated market with people out there wanting to teach. Teach you how to teach your child how to read.
I found that with my resources and my skills on social media, like, that's not my specialty. The second thing that kind of swayed me from that is the Measure the message can be hard to get out.
Like it is important for you to work with your child. Like these are research based things.
And so I found to get my message out was, was difficult as well for me and I just really love working with teachers. I feel like that is a strength of mine. So that's, that's why I pivoted.
Vicki Weinberg:Well, that's really interesting. Thank you. I wanted to cover that because I think it can be really common to think you know who your customer is and find out.
Actually my customer is someone slightly different. To give another example, I was speaking to someone recently who always assumed that their target market was parents.
And then they suddenly, they sort of realized after being in business for a couple of years that actually, oh no, their target market is actually more grandparents because the product they sell lend themselves more to gifting and to buying for multiple children. So I just found that really interesting.
Melissa McCall:And it's, it's funny because you think big, right? Like anyone can give this and then like it gets smaller and smaller and small, smaller like your customer really.
And that, that makes it easier, right? If you have that avatar in your head, you can really tailor your marketing correctly too.
It really does.
And I know when I first started out when I was selling products meant for babies, I was kind of, I started out going, well, anyone who has a baby can buy this. You know, whether it's mums or dads and, or it could be grandparents or aunties. And like, literally I feel I was like, anyone can buy this.
But soon you start to realize, actually no, it's not for everyone. Whether that's because of the price point or the messaging or whatever it is and you really start to refine and work out.
Okay, actually, I can't talk to everyone because no matter what your product is, it's never going to be for everyone.
Or even if it's, as I say in my example, for babies, it's never going to be for everyone with a baby because everyone is just so different in what they want and what they need. But it's, it's funny how I think a lot of people do start out much wider and then take time to really narrow it down.
And I always, you know, sign up for free webinars and all the things and they give you like create your avatar and you kind of, when you're first starting out, roll your eyes, you're like, really? And it's because it's so down to the, to the penny of like, where do they shop and what are they wearing and all the things.
And I always kind of thought that was silly, but, like, it's actually what you should do because then you can say, this is my person I'm talking to. And it just makes the marketing so much easier just to be like, talk to your avatar. Talk to your avatar.
Vicki Weinberg:There's that saying, isn't there? Like, if you're talking to everyone, you're talking to no one. I'm sure that's what you're saying. Yeah, I haven't made that up, have I?
And it makes so much sense because you're right. Unless something can really capture you and what it is your.
You want or what you need or what your issues are, like, it has to speak to you because we see so much now. Like, you just go on Instagram and you're just. There's so many ads. And the ones that make me stop are the ones that are relevant to me.
Melissa McCall:Absolutely. And yes, that's been another kind of turning point, I would say, over the past couple months.
It's just like social media is getting so saturated and it's kind of been a relief for me to say, like, directors are my market and it's. I don't have to be so all over social media to try to grow a following because that's not necessarily where they are. Right.
Like, I need to find where the directors are shopping and what they are doing, which probably isn't like watching influence influencers all day.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense.
And I was talking to someone, I can't remember who I was talking to about this recently, about the fact that you can spend a lot of time creating lovely social media posts, but if your ideal customers aren't on there, it's kind of a pointless set. So I'm not saying, like, not having a social media presence, but I think you have to put your effort into where your customers actually are.
And as you say, if they're not, you know, if preschool directors aren't on Instagram, for example, looking for resources and it's about finding where are they, where do they go looking for ideas or inspiration on new products.
Melissa McCall:Absolutely. And it just kind of. It's all about like that email list. Right. Like, if you can take.
What I've been doing is just taking the time to find out where the, you know, like, connecting with the director. So now I can nurture them and get them into my world. That's not just them watching a video that I made on social media.
Vicki Weinberg:So, yeah, of course that's really. And actually, I guess that's the benefit of knowing you know who these customers are because now you can think about what's important to them.
And I guess it is going to be slightly different to what's important to a parent.
Melissa McCall:Absolutely. For sure.
Vicki Weinberg:And so what else over the last year? And I appreciate there's probably going to be a lot, but what are some of the other things that maybe you've learned over the last year?
Melissa McCall:See, well, I think one of the biggest is I think I already hit on this, but just having a plan. So if you are going to have a product, having a plan, more than just like, I'm gonna. I've. I've had several. I've done some free mentor groups.
And kind of the more mentoring you get, the more confusing it gets, right?
Like, you have someone who's like, need to have a plan this and that, and then you have another advisor saying, put it out to the world and see what happens. And what I have found between the two of those is that it's okay to put a little bit out, but then that shouldn't be like, what you.
You have to get feedback and stop and then come up with a real plan.
So I do think there's so much value in putting something out there, getting the feedback and tweaking it, and then being prepared to really go in and relaunch. I also think you have to be willing to spend money. It's especially with products like, you are not going to get seen on Amazon.
Like, you have to be able to spend some money. You have to. If you're not.
If marketing is not your specialty, like, you have to be willing to reach out to someone who is doing marketing or look at affiliate links or that kind of thing. So as far as the product side, that's. That's something I've definitely learned. And just like being open to feedback has been so great.
So I've been so.
It's not always easy to get feedback, but putting, getting creative, putting yourself out there, like, I did the focus group and offered the product for free. And that was so valuable to hear. Like, one thing I learned was a lower price or free shipping. And they're like, I don't care how high the price is.
If I have to pay shipping, I'm out. So I'm like, okay, like, almost every single person in that group said that.
So that made me think on my website, you know, even, of course on Amazon, we all want free shipping. But even on my website, like, is that, is that causing car abandonment? Right. Because they have to. They see the price and now they have to pay 499.
So feedback is amazing.
Vicki Weinberg:That's so helpful. Thank you for all of that. But I totally agree.
To come back to the first thing you said about a plan, I think you're completely right and there's definitely benefits in testing your ideas.
But if you have a new product or a new range, I think there's definitely something in sharing it enough so that you get some initial feedback, you can see if there's any take up. But then you're right. I think to give something a good chance there does need to be a plan behind it. And then I again with the.
I know you're talking about having to spend some money and again, I mean I agree with everything you've said.
I think spending the money definitely because whether it's Amazon or whether it's your website, it's so hard to get seen now because you were mentioning earlier about the noise of social media, but there's just noise everywhere. It doesn't matter whether you're on Amazon or someone was talking to me about Etsy recently. Say no, it's so hard to get seen on Etsy.
Like 10 years ago it was fairly easy to come up in search and now it's really difficult and I just think that's the way things are going gets noisier and noisier and busier and busier and like I don't, I think I don't have the days of putting something out there and it just taking off ever was a thing. But if it ever was, it definitely isn't anymore.
Melissa McCall:I 100% agree with that. I, I put some, I put my product on Etsy too and like it.
I didn't put any, you know, I did all the SEO things, I did the keyword searches and all those free type things that you can do and I'll get like my weekly report and it's like you had one visitor to your shop. I mean it is noisy. It is really noisy.
And so like, like you said and kind of what I mentioned, like if you're going to design a product, be ready to spend, spend some money in the beginning to really get the support or if you can't spend the money, have a plan to be creative with your resources around you. Like how can you get this out to 50 people for free who do have a presence on social media. So if it's not money, it does need to be a strong plan.
Vicki Weinberg:Yes. And time.
And that also leads me on to something, I think that you've been Done really well is working out now who your customer is and just focusing on that customer.
And I think the other benefit of that is, you know, now, okay, if I'm targeting preschool directors, you know, I mean, I'm assuming, but tell me if I'm wrong. But you can go, you can be like, I don't need to be on TikTok. I don't need to be posting on Instagram every hour.
You know, there's so many things you. You can sort of rule out because actually your customers aren't there.
Whereas I think something I see people often do at the start is go, you know, 100% into everything. And that's a lot.
Whereas I think also, like marketplaces, I say to people, if you're going to get started on Amazon, absolutely, but get established on your website first and then move on and do that rather than trying to be everywhere all of the time because it's just so overwhelming. And it's actually better, I think, to do less well than to try and do everything but never kind of nail any of them.
Melissa McCall:Exactly. And that's one thing I've learned and evolved over this past year, too, is become an expert at something. Right? Like, just stick your lane.
I think especially as entrepreneurs, we. We always want to create, like, it's just like that creative brain, and that's what kind of sparks us. Right.
But, like, just make the thing or, like, do the course and refine it and get better at that one thing.
And then as you become more well known and people start saying, oh, this is a great product, then you can expand because now you have the clout and the support from your fans.
Vicki Weinberg:Absolutely.
Because that's the other thing you sometimes I've seen as well, is people have a product and it's out in the world, and then suddenly there's like all these other products, which I'm not saying for a minute, don't expand and grow your range. But I agree with you that. And by the way, I did this myself.
I feel like when I was selling my baby products, I launched my first product and my second product fairly quickly afterwards. But actually, in hindsight, I kind of should have maybe given it another six months to get that first one really established and then built on it.
But hindsight, of course, is a wonderful thing because I think especially if you are an entrepreneur and you're creative, you just want to do all of the things.
And while that there's definitely some benefits in having that energy and all those ideas, I think it can be hard to do everything well, when you're trying to do too much.
Melissa McCall:I did want to get your opinion on the. You're gonna have to help me with the words. It's like where you create a brand on Amazon. Do you feel that that is it Vine? It's not Vine.
Oh, I did vine as well.
Vicki Weinberg:You did?
Melissa McCall:I did Vine.
Vicki Weinberg:Amazon Brand Registry.
Melissa McCall:Yes. So then you can have, like, your page. I believe that's what it's called. Right. Where you have, like. Do you feel like. I.
I feel like that would have benefited me as I was going to expand some versions of that, just because it seems like a much more beautiful page to go to. Was that something that, like, in the future, if I do go back to Amazon that you would recommend?
Vicki Weinberg:Yes, I think if you have a trademark and you're eligible to apply for brand registry, I think it's definitely worth doing. I think if you have a range of products, it's great because it kind of groups them all under your brand.
So it makes it really easy for customers to look at everything you offer, rather than just these standalone listings. You can also have a nice storefront. And then, as you said, you can also add more content to the listings themselves and also more and more sellers.
You've. You're probably seeing yourself when you shop on them list. And more and more sellers are starting to use these features.
I don't think we're there now, but I think we are going to get to a point where you're almost going to have to. To be on the same level as the other sellers, if that makes sense.
Because so many more people are just starting to use all these features, which is amazing.
But I feel like those who don't, you know, when you compare, like, the listings, the ones that have brand registry and, you know, using the A plus content and have a storefront, they're just going to stand out more.
Melissa McCall:And that I. I was trying to remember what held me back, and it was the trademark. So I didn't have the product trademarked.
So then I was looking into the expenses of that and if it was going to be worth it to me.
And doing it, was it going to be worth it to me doing it through Amazon, which seemed like it could have been quite a bit more expensive than if I did it on my own. And again, it was all just kind of pulling away from my new vision. I was like, this is not taking me in the direction that I want to go.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah. And it can always be something to go back to.
And I'll be honest, I don't know in the US how easy it is to get a trademark, how much it costs in the uk, I can say it's simple. Simple and not too expensive. Like, just. I think it's not much over £100, like maybe £120 or something. So not a massive expense.
And it's just an online form, so it's quite straightforward. I don't know how easy it is for you to do the same because it's possibly different.
Melissa McCall: looked into it, it was like $: Vicki Weinberg:I don't know, don't, don't do it through Amazon.
Melissa McCall:That's what I was kind of like. And then I just kind of got overwhelmed and I was like, I just can't do this. I can't spend my time doing this. So I moved on.
Vicki Weinberg: are. What's on your plans for: Melissa McCall:So I've got a lot of excitement coming up. So I recently launched an online course. And so I love training teachers, but it's hard for me to train outside of my local network, obviously.
So I've launched a course called Alphabet Academy, and I've actually had some directors across the nation purchase it and purchase multiple licenses for their staff, so now they can learn with moving little minds on their own.
So my ultimate goal is to create a network of, or not a catalog of several different courses that are also going to have products that you can purchase that really align with the course. So being more strategic. And I'm here to educate you and here are some amazing products that will take your teaching to the next level.
Vicki Weinberg:That's amazing. So it sounds like you've got a real strategy going forward.
Melissa McCall:Yes. After several years, I'm finally in a really exciting place, so I'm excited.
Vicki Weinberg:Well, that's amazing.
And it doesn't, you know, I always think it doesn't matter how long it takes because I think it takes all of us a lot longer than maybe we'd like to admit or. You know what I mean?
Melissa McCall:Exactly.
Vicki Weinberg:I don't think there's such a thing as an overnight success or maybe someone can prove me wrong on that. But I think that we all sort of go on a bit of a journey and then we end up exactly.
Melissa McCall:Where we're meant to be, 100%.
That's definitely what I've learned is, you know, I was getting a little discouraged and one of my mentors said, like, all you have to just think of these years as product Discovery. Right. Customer discovery. And now you know, your vision. So it's been exciting.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah. And Melissa, final question for you. What would be your number one piece of advice for other product creators?
Melissa McCall:I think I've hit on this several times, but just having a clear plan in. So especially when it comes to the marketing. So are you going to need to go to trade shows? And of course, this takes a little bit of experimenting.
For instance, with my product, I found when I would go and present to certain groups of people and had the product there, I would sell a bunch. Right. So that's telling me if I were in person with these people.
But again, that just wasn't fitting my lifestyle at the time to go to all these places. So the biggest thing is just be prepared to have a plan, assess what you learn with the plan and then learn and try again.
Vicki Weinberg:That's so helpful. Thank you so much.
Melissa McCall:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for listening. Right to the end of this episode. Do you want remember that you can get the full back catalog and lots of free resources on my website, vickiwineberg.
Com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.
Thank you again and see you next week.
