Transcripts
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
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:people and rescues making a
difference in the lives of animals.
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:Last week's episode featured Ashley
Gardinier with Southern Paws Inc.
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:And we talked a lot about the animal
welfare crisis, so if you didn't
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:listen to last week's episode.
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:Make sure you go back and check it out.
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:But today we're back to talk about
the other things that Ashley does,
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:and one of 'em is dog training.
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:Ashley Let's get into how dog training
can help to keep dogs in homes, First off,
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:where did you learn to do dog training?
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:Ashley: Oh so honestly I learned
to dog train when I got Goose.
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:, I have a dog named Goose
like Goose and Maverick.
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:And he is my soulmate.
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:I love this dog.
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:He is my soul dog.
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:He is my best friend.
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:And many years ago, like going back,
15 some odd years ago before our animal
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:rescue was even a thought in my mind.
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:I had a dog who I had gotten and
some rescue, just gave me a puppy
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:and they didn't educate me at all.
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:They didn't tell me I was
supposed to socialize her.
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:They didn't still tell me I was supposed
to train her or do anything with her.
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:They just said here's a puppy.
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:So I got her and I didn't know
I was supposed to do all these
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:things because nobody told me.
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:And when she was seven years old,
she jumped up and she bit a little
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:girl in the face and she ripped
off half of this child's face and.
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:After it happened which was devastating.,
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:I was young, I was like in my very early
twenties, and I had to , sit down and
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:make this decision on what do I do?
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:Because she had already
bitten a couple people.
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:This was obviously the worst bite
and really, at that point had calmed
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:down to it's gonna happen again.
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:And I had tried everything.
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:I had dog whisperers, I had tried
training, I had tried ecollar work.
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:So through Kylie I went through the gamut
with dog training from the beginning.
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:And after this bite
happened, it was really bad.
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:There's still a woman that
walks around with scars on
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:her face today because of me.
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:Okay.
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:Not because of my dog, not because she
was like hardwired, because of me, right?
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:Just because I didn't know any better and.
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:When I ended up euthanizing her.
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:It was still to this day, like one
of the hardest things I've ever done.
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:It's probably one of the worst moments
of my whole life, honestly, looking back.
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:And when I decided, like right around
the time I actually got exposed to animal
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:rescue , goose was actually on that
first transport back from Louisiana.
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:So I had seen this little chocolate
lab puppy it's chocolate lab Catula.
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:And I just thought they were so cool.
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:Johnna had them in her barn and
his brother was just gorgeous.
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:And I was like, oh, so
Goose, I ended up fostering.
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:I was really concerned if Maverick
got adopted before Goose did.
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:'cause Goose was like this
really sensitive sweet dog.
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:And ironically Christmas Eve, maverick
gets adopted now, I end up with Goose and
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:everybody was like, you're not gonna keep
this dog, you're not gonna keep this dog.
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:I go into Petco and somebody
goes oh my God, I love him.
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:I want him.
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:And I was like no, nope.
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:Sorry.
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:Nope.
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:He is mine.
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:And she was like, oh, I
thought you were fostering.
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:I was like, no, he's mine.
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:And I like took him out.
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:The next day I walked into the
local training center and I said to
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:them, this is what I went through.
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:How do I, what do I have to do to
make sure this never happens again?
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:Because I can't go through
this again with this dog.
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:And if we're gonna do it, we're
gonna do it right this time.
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:And , the local training center by
me Stacy, who's actually one of my
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:mentors I trained with her for 10 years.
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:I brought all of our
behavioral dogs there.
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:I brought Goose there.
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:Not only that, but I got Goose
and Lexi, my other dog, both of
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:them are certified therapy dogs.
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:I didn't just go through the like
bright and beautiful program like.
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:I went through a two year
extensive training with them.
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:So that literally if my dog was on the
other, like a mile away from me and I
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:saw him like move a certain way, I was
like, I knew exactly what he was thinking.
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:I knew exactly where his head was at.
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:It was just this bizarre
connection, right?
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:And I really learned how to read dogs
and I actually have a master's degree in,
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:in human psychology in forensic psych.
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:That's a whole nother story in itself.
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:But it was interesting the more training
I did, the more I was able to understand
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:dog psychology in a very humanized way.
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:So.
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:I say all the time, one of my best
talents, I'm not necessarily good at
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:demonstrating what to do with your dog,
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:i'm great at it 'cause
Goose is great at it.
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:That's the only reason.
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:But it's funny because I say all the time
my, like the best part of me training
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:and the thing I'm really good at is
taking a situation and putting it in
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:human terms so that you can understand
what your dog's doing, why they're doing
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:it, why it's not okay and how to fix it.
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:And letting you have that like
light bulb moment of oh my
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:God, I didn't think about that.
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:So I always had this psychology.
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:And then with the rescue
crisis, I said like, all right,
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:listen, adoptions are dead.
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:We just had this opportunity
like fall in our lap.
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:I'm tired of being a part of,
just like getting dogs out.
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:I wanna start working on solutions
that are gonna keep dogs out of the
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:shelter and out of the, the thing.
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:So if we can provide a program
that's maybe a little bit lower
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:cost than like our local programs,
and then the money, it's a win-win.
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:The money is a donation, the
money goes back into the rescue.
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:So we're able to actually use the
training center to help provide
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:financing for the rescue that we're,
that we lost in our adoption fees.
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:And on top of that, the real win
is we get to work with people to
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:keep their dogs in their home.
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:So once the upstairs kind of came
available, I said, oh, I guess
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:I better go get a certification
listen, you don't have to have a
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:certification to be a dog trainer.
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:I personally think everybody should just
so that you learn the fundamental basics.
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:But I had also worked with every single
behavioral problem in our rescue.
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:I had worked with dogs, during disaster
relief in flooded houses that I now
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:needed to carry, that didn't know me
and were terrified, I had to work with
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:feral dogs to be able to get them to
trust me enough to come near enough to
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:me where we could get them help, there
were all these just different things
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:that I had learned along the way.
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:And I said, you know what?
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:I said, I bet we could
turn this into something.
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:So I went back actually to my trainers.
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:I have a trainer, Stacy, that
I just adore, and then she's
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:just incredible and amazing.
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:And then I have another trainer,
Anne, who is also just like
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:absolutely phenomenal, amazing.
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:None of them sugarcoat things like,
I don't do well with these like fru
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:trainers, I like the down and dirty.
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:What were you thinking when you did that?
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:Like, why would you think that's okay?
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:That kind of stuff.
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:And, I had built these relationships
with them over years and years between
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:my own dogs and dogs in the rescue
and dogs with behavioral problems and,
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:asking advice and all these things.
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:And now I put it all together.
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:I got the certification through
animal Behavioral College.
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:It was an online course.
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:It took me about a year to
probably get through it.
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:And like I said, it was cool 'cause
I got to learn the fundamentals
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:of it was really cool to learn
how dogs were like domesticated.
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:I knew the commands, like the sit
and the down and the, whatever, but
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:I didn't necessarily understand the
psychology behind them which was
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:really cool as well as all of the.
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:The methodology, right?
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:And the psychology behind the methodology.
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:That was another element
that I found really helpful.
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:I had all these things surfacely,
but didn't really understand
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:the education behind 'em.
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:And I had to do like an externship which
I did over at and at Good Dog training.
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:And yeah, I just had these really
amazing women that I really respect.
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:So I just pulled me under their
arms and were like, okay, we're
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:gonna, we're gonna teach you.
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:And I started teaching.
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:I'm still not super confident.
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:I really don't do behavioral modification.
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:I try those are like your bigger
behaviors, your aggression, your
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:reactivity, your severe anxiety disorders.
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:The dogs that I actually love to work
with the most are very fearful dogs.
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:Those are the ones that I
really love to work with.
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:The, fear, almost like
fear reactive a little bit.
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:Like I love that I do a lot of
what I call exposure work that
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:is not what it's actually called.
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:It's called desensitization
and generalization, but like
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:to humans, they're like, I
don't know what that means.
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:Those are big words.
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:So, I dumb it down.
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:It's exposing them to just like very mild,
like uncomfortable stimulus ultimately,
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:and pairing it with really yummy treats.
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:Like we make it rain hot dogs.
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:But yeah, so that's how it started
and , I think the hardest part
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:is getting people to train.
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:But it's been really helpful too to
be able to also offer up myself as
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:a resource for my adopters, right?
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:Like I tell my adopters all the time,
if you, they all have my personal
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:cell phone number, I've had the same
cell phone number since I was like 12.
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:The amount of people that have
this cell phone number are just,
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:is in incomprehensible, but they
can call me anytime day or night.
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:And usually I'm like, okay, listen,
if it's a real in-depth thing,
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:like I'm gonna have to send you
somewhere, but they can call me.
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:It doesn't matter if you adopted for
me yesterday or 10 years ago, you can
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:call me with any behavioral problem.
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:I'll give you some pointers.
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:I'll give you, I'll tell you
direction on where you should go.
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:I had an doctor call me the
other day from eight years ago.
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:Their dog is having some neuro issues
and they were like, what do we do?
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:And I was like, okay, this is what you do.
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:This is where you go, this is the doctor.
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:So I, I think that's more important
than anything and it's given me the
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:opportunity to be able to provide
more of that from a more educated
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:standpoint, if that makes sense.
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:Dixie: Yes, it does.
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:Would you recommend other dog rescues
to have a person maybe go through the
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:same course that you did so they know
that basic psychology of dog behavior?
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:Ashley: Yeah.
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:The more education you have, the better,
like the more education you have.
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:And listen, a lot of this
comes from experience, right?
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:Like I had an issue today with one
of one of our teammates where like
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:she just didn't know the right
questions to ask because she's just
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:not as experienced yet as I am.
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:She's still a little bit green.
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:And we had an issue with it
because we almost pulled a dog
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:that has like severe neurological
issues by accident which was fine.
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:Like it would've been fine.
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:We're still looking at pulling the dog.
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:We just needed way more
information than we had.
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:It's like one of those situations where
like the more information and the more
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:you can educate yourself, the better.
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:And it's not, you don't have to
spend, $3,000 and go get a piece of
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:paper, find a local training center.
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:I have never met a trainer who I was
like, Hey, I wanna sit down on your class.
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:And they were like, no,
like that's never happened.
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:Everybody should have a trainer in their
pocket, like a real trainer, right?
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:Somebody that's good.
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:Somebody that's been doing
this for a long time.
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:Somebody that's like really has
a background, in dog training.
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:Not like somebody that's oh, I just
got a certification like yesterday.
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:It's like me, like I just
got my certification.
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:Have I worked on a lot of things?
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:Yes.
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:Am I really confident?
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:Working with like behavioral
modifications, stuff like that.
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:Absolutely not.
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:So I'll defer those
clients somewhere else.
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:Now, I also tell every single one of my
clients that they need to do at least a
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:minimum of a year of dog classes anywhere.
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:It doesn't have to be with
me, it could be anywhere.
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:And if they're not local somebody
just asked me they're like 20
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:minutes away from us and they were
like, well, is there anybody here?
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:And I was like, yes.
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:This is who I recommend.
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:Go there.
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:So it's not so much, even if you
don't know the psychology or you
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:don't wanna learn the psychology,
sorry, or you don't wanna learn.
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:Like even if you don't know the
psychology or you're not interested
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:in learning the psychology, at the
end of the day, have somebody at
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:least in your pocket that does.
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:Somebody that's really good that you're
close with or that you can consult with.
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:Because if it wasn't for
that half of the issues.
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:That we've had would
never have been fixed.
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:And then it's just the dog that suffers.
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:Like you develop all these behavioral
problems just simply because you
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:really didn't know any better.
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:Like you dealt with a problem and you
were like, oh, I think I can fix this.
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:And like you tried to do what you thought
was best, which was like all the wrong
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:things, so even if you don't do it
yourself, like just have somebody there
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:that you can use as a sounding board and
say Hey, this is going on with this dog.
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:What do you suggest I do?
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:Dixie: Let's get onto some
of those behavioral issues.
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:You said that a lot of people were
complaining about behavioral issues in
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:these COVID puppies or pandemic puppies.
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:Yeah.
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:What are some of those specific
behavioral issues that you're seeing?
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:And then how do you address those issues?
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:Ashley: I had so many things.
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:So this is one of my favorite
examples to use dog on dog reactivity.
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:Okay.
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:. And dog reactivity can come from all
kinds of different things, right?
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:And what that mean, what dog reactivity
is like your walking down on the
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:street and your dog sees a dog and
they just lose their ever loving mind.
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:Okay?
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:This is something we see a lot, right?
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:And a lot of it is because during
COVID, dogs didn't see other dogs.
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:Dogs are a lot like humans.
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:They're a lot like child,
like children when it comes to
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:psychological and social development.
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:So during COVID, we were not allowed
to leave our houses, correct?
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:Correct.
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:So we were home all the time, which
means our dogs were home all the time.
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:They didn't meet people, they
didn't go out in the world, they
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:didn't interact with other dogs.
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:They lived at home.
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:We lived at home.
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:And then when the world opened
back up again, now we are
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:trying to take our dogs places.
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:We're trying to do things with them,
we're trying to get 'em off the property,
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:and the dogs are either terrified or
like they don't know how to act, right?
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:So a great example of
this is dog reactiveness.
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:So, I did dog walking for a year
and there was this dog Yeti,
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:and I use her all the time.
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:She's my claim to fame this dog.
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:Because she was so reactive and
it was anything she saw, like
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:it didn't have to be a dog.
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:If she saw a squirrel, she was a lunatic.
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:If she saw a deer, oh, forget it.
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:Like she would throw herself on the floor.
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:She would scream like a lunatic.
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:She was this like 40 pound
white like Aussie husky mix.
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:And she had taken her mom
down like multiple times.
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:She actually really hurt Elise's elbow.
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:At one point and she, when I
started walking her, I was like,
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:oh no we're not doing this.
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:I was like, we are absolutely
not gonna be doing this.
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:We're not pulling.
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:So within two weeks I said to, she had
taken me down like once, and I said
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:to Elise, I was like, absolutely not.
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:We're not doing this.
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:I'm getting a gentle leader for your dog.
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:And Elise was very against it.
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:She didn't wanna do it.
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:And I said, listen,
let me at least try it.
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:If you really feel like it's awful, like
we've used this, I've used this before
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:on dogs, that I've trained, especially
dogs in the rescue that are like large
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:breed and really gonna take you out.
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:'cause they just are big puppies.
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:There's a great it's mildly invasive.
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:Like it's not a big deal.
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:And what I did was I was a
Pez dispenser for treats.
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:And I would do a lot of, in the
beginning, turning around and walking
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:in the other direction, right?
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:So we'd see something at a distance.
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:We really, as a society, I'm
sure you know this, we need
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:to get out of our cell phones.
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:We need to start paying attention to
our surroundings and things like that.
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:A big mistake that I see made a lot
is we're in our phones, or, so we're
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:not necessarily looking at what's
happening around us that's going
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:to potentially trigger our animals.
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:So in Yeti's case, it's a lot of looking
around, looking for deer, looking
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:for dogs, looking for people that are
walking, looking for, whatever it is.
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:So that I could use that
as a learning moment.
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:And I'm not gonna put her in a situation
that I know she's gonna fail in, which is
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:like walking towards a dog or, walking in
their space and getting closer to them.
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:I'm gonna literally watch
her, she's gonna get alert.
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:She's gonna, get stiff and she's gonna
stare and before it gets close or I
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:get close, I'm gonna turn around, I'm
gonna shove a cookie in her mouth and
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:I'm gonna walk in the other direction.
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:And we would take a
different path that day.
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:And we would just do
that over and over again.
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:And eventually over time we were
able to get closer and closer.
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:This is actually what I call,
this is the exposure work
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:that I was mentioning before.
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:Eventually you get closer and closer and
you're desensitizing the dog to being in
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:the presence of whatever that stimulus is.
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:You're counter conditioning her.
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:So that to the point where she would see
somebody else and she would literally look
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:at me like, where's my cookie lady like?
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:And it got to the point after,
and it took me eight months.
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:Eight months, and on in the eighth month.
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:There was a lady that walked by with a
dachshund that was losing its ever loving
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:mind, and she sat right next to me.
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:The dog walked probably
between six feet away from her.
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:She looked right at me and was
like, lady, where's my cookie?
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:And I'll never forget, the lady said
to me, how'd you get her to do that?
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:And I was like, oh, it's been
eight months, but it works.
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:And she was like, I was like, she's
could you teach mine to do that?
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:And I was like, ironically, yes I could.
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:I'll tell you what, the
lady never called me.
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:So it's things like
that, that are so simple.
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:And the reason that these resources
and being a resource and being,
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:having the training certification
and understanding the psychology
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:there's a basis to these behaviors.
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:And this is actually in the
conversation I have with every
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:single one of my adopters, okay?
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:Because I tell all of them,
like I mentioned before,
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:everybody's gotta go to training.
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:So.
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:It's not, I'm not telling you, you need
to train because I think you're stupid and
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:you can't teach your dogs to sit and stay.
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:I'm teaching you to train
because you're not a dog expert.
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:You don't know dog psychology.
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:I still don't like, there's still, I call
myself number one dog mom, and I say all
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:the time, there are literally like times
where I don't know things like, and my
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:trainer's like, why are you doing that?
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:I'm like I don't know.
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:I take my own dogs to other people's
classes because every time I
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:go I still learn something new.
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:I co-teach with Stacey in the morning
on Saturdays, just so I can learn
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:from her, and Stacey will test me.
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:She'll let me, stick my foot
in my mouth and then say, okay,
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:you're wrong and this is why.
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:And I'm okay with that
because I'm learning.
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:So what happens with dogs, like
leading up to that behavior, right?
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:That behavior was built.
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:It was, the dog wasn't born like that.
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:The dog, that behavior was built.
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:She was got during COVID, I.
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:She wasn't around other dogs.
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:She wasn't around a lot of people, okay?
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:And so when she was seeing these other
dogs, people, animals, whatever, she
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:was getting so amped and nobody ever
taught her how to handle herself.
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:Okay?
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:Imagine you have a child, right?
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:And that child has never been around
people and you stick it in, middle
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:school with 400 kids in his class.
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:How do you expect that child to acclimate?
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:They're either going to be running
amuck and psychotic, or they're gonna be
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:terrified and hiding under their desk.
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:They're not gonna know the social skills.
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:They're not gonna know how the
interactions, they're not gonna know the
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:appropriate way to interact with humans.
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:So why would we think that our
dogs would, and that's where the
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:reactivity come from, comes from.
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:So those are the kind of
behaviors that we see a lot of.
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:We're seeing that we're seeing
I'm seeing, we're seeing a lot
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:of we call it stranger danger.
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:Okay?
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:And it stems from
literally the same thing.
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:They're not used to people
coming into their space.
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:And I'm not gonna lie,
people are stupid, okay?
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:We do stupid things when we, when it comes
to dogs, because everything, every five of
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:our being is oh my god, dog, I love you.
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:And that's not a dog's
love language, right?
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:The love language of dogs is
smell my butt, like body language.
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:This don't come at my face.
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:And we've just done all the things wrong.
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:They're not used to that.
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:They don't know how to react.
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:So maybe they're getting afraid
and they're going to fear
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:react, which is they're going to
overcompensate and they're gonna
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:bark at you and tell you to back off.
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:'cause that's their language, right?
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:Things like that.
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:It's a lot of things.
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:We also never, none of these people
trained during COVID because none
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:of the training centers were open.
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:So you also have all of these
unruly dogs that are now just like
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:large dogs that don't have matters.
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:They don't have structure, they weren't
told, they were never given any rules.
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:And just like children, it's
the same concept, right?
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:You ultimately have what I had with my
first dog, there was no rules, there was
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:no consequences, there was no structure.
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:If you do that with a child, you're
going to have a monster who's
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:climbing your curtains, right?
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:And getting into trouble.
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:So why would we expect our dogs to, in
the same scenario, to be well-behaved
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:and not have behavioral problems
or not be emotionally balanced?
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:So that's really what we're seeing.
429
:And the bigger issue we're
running into is a, we as a
430
:rescue, we are really overwhelmed.
431
:So we, we don't have anywhere to put
a dog that's got behavioral issues.
432
:And on top of that, we
don't have the finances.
433
:Like I used to be like, oh,
your dog's a little afraid.
434
:No problem.
435
:I can work with that.
436
:We have a great foster and we would
throw them in training three days a week.
437
:I can't afford, a thousand dollars a week
for a dog that's got behavioral problems
438
:because you didn't do right by your dog.
439
:You didn't train your dog appropriately.
440
:And now your dog has behavioral problems
and now I'm supposed to try and fix
441
:it and spend all this money to do
it because you either don't have the
442
:money or don't care or don't want to.
443
:Dixie: What do you do in the situation
if somebody does call you and they tell
444
:you, I've got this dog to surrender
'cause this dog has behavioral problems?
445
:Well, I'm sure of course you're
gonna recommend training.
446
:But how do the people react to that?
447
:Being that, you said this dog that
you had the one that took eight
448
:months to train, it's eight months.
449
:So are people open to even wanting to wait
the eight months to see if their dog Nope.
450
:Will start reacting differently?
451
:Ashley: Nope.
452
:Nope.
453
:Not at all.
454
:I will tell you, I would
say 95% of them do.
455
:But I educate them
about the rescue crisis.
456
:And I tell them, listen, your best
bet is this, working with your
457
:dog, training your dog, socializing
your dog, getting a trainer.
458
:I would get a trainer in there
immediately working on it with
459
:them, trying to get them fixed.
460
:I will, if they're local.
461
:There's some people who have been
like, I can't afford it, and I've
462
:been like, bring me your dog.
463
:We'll work together.
464
:Like I have a little bit
of time on Tuesday nights.
465
:I got you.
466
:Let's see if we can at
least fix this portion.
467
:And sometimes I get lucky, and
sometimes they're like, yes, I got this.
468
:But you know that 95% of the
time they just call another
469
:rescue, and if it's really bad,
what am I supposed to tell them?
470
:And that's why I don't call
people back anymore because
471
:what am I supposed to tell them?
472
:I'm the rescuer.
473
:I'm supposed to be the
one that's there to help.
474
:I'm supposed to be the one
that has all the answers.
475
:And it goes back to what you were saying
before is we are supposed to be here for
476
:dire circumstances, and we're not like
people treat us like crap because we can't
477
:help you because you have a responsibility
to this animal that you committed to.
478
:That has done nothing be loyal to you or
be the way you trained them or raised them
479
:to be, and now you just are dumping them
because you don't feel like putting the
480
:time, the energy, or the money into 'em.
481
:That's really the heart of it.
482
:And people could argue with me all day
about it, but really at the end of the
483
:day, if you I am a big believer in you
want, you will, you won't, you don't, if
484
:you wanna fix it, you are gonna fix it.
485
:If you don't wanna fix it,
you are not gonna fix it.
486
:So we have to look at that as a population
and say Hey, what am I supposed to say?
487
:Some cases where a dog's had multiple
bites and there's like stitches
488
:involved and things like that.
489
:I don't recommend they go to
a shelter because I also don't
490
:think it's fair to the dog.
491
:Dixie: Yeah.
492
:And I was gonna say too, like when you
say you're not calling them back, you
493
:don't have the room, you don't have the
resources to take care of 'em, and I
494
:understand that, but let's suppose the
next rescue that they call takes 'em.
495
:What does that rescue, do?
496
:What does that rescue left working with?
497
:Ashley: Yeah.
498
:I don't know.
499
:And you know what?
500
:There are times like we
actually got wrecked.
501
:Like we got blown up on social media.
502
:Like all hell broke loose because.
503
:There was a dog that
was brought one of ours.
504
:And I work very hard to
get all of our dogs back.
505
:Like right now I have two dogs
that I'm trying desperately
506
:to get back into rescue.
507
:They're 10 years old.
508
:The guy has got medical issues.
509
:Luckily the dog walker has been really
helpful and she's been working with me
510
:because I don't have anyone who put these
dogs, one of which has behavioral issues.
511
:The other one's great, but like they're
two bonded, 10-year-old pit bulls.
512
:So we've been trying, but like we can't.
513
:So I've told them like, reach out
to other rescues and if you can find
514
:a rescue that's got the resources
right now, let them go there if you
515
:asked me that three years ago, I
would've been like, absolutely not.
516
:Nobody is allowed to touch my dogs.
517
:Those are mine.
518
:Like they come back to
me, no questions asked.
519
:That is my responsibility.
520
:That is my dog.
521
:The problem we're running into
now is we don't have the resources
522
:anymore that we used to have.
523
:One of the things I do is now I educate
people about that when they adopt with me.
524
:Everybody gets a spiel about this,
about the animal welfare crisis
525
:and how nobody has resources.
526
:And I pretty much tell them
like, nobody's got help.
527
:Nobody can help you now.
528
:This is gonna be on you, so
really think this through before
529
:you leave here with this dog.
530
:But like we got wrecked years ago
because I had a dog that came in.
531
:It was at a local shelter.
532
:The dog had pretty rough
behavioral problems.
533
:The dog had attacked a child.
534
:There was like quite a bunch
of things that I had heard.
535
:So the dog ended up there.
536
:They had contacted us to take the dog
back and I said, I'm really nervous
537
:about taking this dog in because the
dog had gone after a child twice.
538
:And I said, okay.
539
:They were like, well, just put it in a
home where it doesn't, but I didn't have,
540
:at the time, it didn't have a placement.
541
:So they dumped the dog at the
local shelter and the shelter
542
:calls me and they're like, Hey.
543
:Will you take this dog back?
544
:And I was like, listen, would
you guys, I don't have anywhere
545
:to put this dog right now.
546
:Would you guys be willing, I know
that you guys do behavioral analysis,
547
:like evaluations on your dogs.
548
:Would you guys be willing to do
a behavioral eval on this dog
549
:and let me know what you find?
550
:And they said, okay.
551
:So they did the behavioral
evaluation, which did not go well.
552
:Okay?
553
:Not at all.
554
:Like dog bit.
555
:The hand twice, didn't go well.
556
:Then they did another evaluation two
days later and the dog failed again.
557
:Okay.
558
:So they call me back and they're
like, while I'm on the phone
559
:with them, I'm like, okay.
560
:I'm like, Jesus.
561
:I'm like, where are we gonna put this dog?
562
:And I'm like, all right,
let me make some calls.
563
:Let me see.
564
:And the girl says to me, we do have other
organizations that like to work with this
565
:type of dog that do have the resources.
566
:Would you want me to reach
out and network them?
567
:And I said, yeah, absolutely.
568
:I said, if you have another organization
that has better resources than I do right
569
:now to be able to help this dog please.
570
:Because at the end of the day, it's
not about my ego, it's not about
571
:the money, it's not about whatever.
572
:It's about the dog.
573
:So if we can find somebody
to help the dog, great.
574
:Let's do it.
575
:Like in the meantime, I'm gonna
keep looking for a placement.
576
:You guys let me know if you find anything.
577
:I was looking for a placement.
578
:Looking for a placement.
579
:Never found one Called
back, talked to 'em again.
580
:They said, listen, we have a rescue
that's willing to take the dog.
581
:I said, okay, well listen, if it
doesn't work out, if God forbid this
582
:dog is gonna be euthanized, let me
know and I will come and get it.
583
:I promise you just call
me and let me know.
584
:They were like, okay, dog goes to rescue.
585
:We get blown up all over social media
that like, what a bunch of trash we are
586
:because we dumped our dog at a shelter
to die and we would rather the dog
587
:be euthanized than come and help it.
588
:When I, we were getting like hate mail.
589
:I got phone calls about this and
every time I told them like, we
590
:still have a review on the Southern
Pause page about this situation.
591
:And literally my answer was, in
that moment, we did not have the
592
:resources to care for this dog.
593
:The dog would've been put down
if it was, if it came to us.
594
:So we found there, they found a
rescue where this was supposed to
595
:be a partnership where like they
were providing a, helping us to
596
:provide a solution to a problem and.
597
:The dog ended up going there.
598
:They placed this dog with children, okay?
599
:They sent me pictures of this dog
in a home with young children,
600
:with all kinds of other things.
601
:I never would've put
that dog there, never.
602
:But whatever they did worked okay.
603
:And they sent me, so every couple of
years I get our social media gets blown
604
:up again with pictures of this dog
living its best life with children and
605
:whatever else is in the home with the dog.
606
:And they send it to us to shame us
every time this organization to tell us
607
:all about well we, you know this dog.
608
:Look, it's with children.
609
:And look, we placed it with
this and you left it to die.
610
:And like all these different things.
611
:And every time I say, oh my God, I'm
so happy that this dog is alive, he's
612
:thriving, and we made the right decision.
613
:Sad.
614
:'cause at the end of the day, it's
not about me or them or anybody else,
615
:or it's about the fact that the dog
is alive, the dog is thriving, and
616
:the dog is living its best life.
617
:Dixie: Yeah.
618
:And that's terrible though, that you had
to go through that with the bad reviews
619
:Ashley: Oh, we go through it all the time.
620
:All the time.
621
:Especially now, anytime one of our dogs
comes up and we don't have somewhere for
622
:it to go, we get some rescue or social
media warrior or whatever calling us and
623
:telling us how awful we are because we
can't take our dogs back because right
624
:now we just don't have the resources.
625
:Dixie: It's wild, even if another
rescue steps in, why would you
626
:drag somebody else's name into it?
627
:If the dog is safe.
628
:Ashley: Oh yeah.
629
:Oh yeah.
630
:I know the best.
631
:One of the biggest criticizers that
came out during that whole thing.
632
:She had a whole bunch of stuff to say.
633
:A couple years ago.
634
:It actually turned out she was a hoarder.
635
:And she got busted and
charged with animal cruelty.
636
:And I was like, are you kidding?
637
:I was like, like somebody sent
it to me and I was like, shut up.
638
:I was like, that's unbelievable.
639
:Dixie: Most of the people that are leaving
the comments, they're people that never
640
:would foster in a million years anyway.
641
:It's like an ego boost for them.
642
:It makes them feel good to say something.
643
:Ashley: Oh yeah.
644
:100%.
645
:100%.
646
:Nobody knows.
647
:Like even listen, even sometimes my board
members, they just don't get it, right?
648
:And they're actively in the
trenches with me every day, right?
649
:So to have Joe Schmoe on the internet,,
like I said before, 95% of these
650
:people have no idea what's actually
going on , in animal rescue or with
651
:the animal welfare crisis or anything.
652
:And the only thing we can do is just
educate them, and that's what I try to do
653
:every time somebody is mad at me because
I can't take a dog or, or the best is
654
:they're like, like we got a call the
other day, I still can't believe this.
655
:And I called the local rescue my contact
over there and I was like, Hey, be
656
:advised this call is coming to you next.
657
:I got a call from a guy who breeds.
658
:Bernice Mountain Dogs, backyard
breeds Bernice Mountain Dog.
659
:And his unspayed female is fighting
with his pregnant female, so he needs
660
:to rehome the the not pregnant female.
661
:And I was like, I'm sorry, what?
662
:I was like, is this real?
663
:And I said to him, I said, listen,
we can't help you with that.
664
:I said, but.
665
:I know the shelter nearby, they're great.
666
:Like they, they do a really amazing job.
667
:We actually pull from them all the time.
668
:So I was like, all right, well let's
send it over there and see if it at
669
:least gets behaviorally tested, and
then we can see if maybe we can pull it.
670
:But I called up my contact
over there, Mike, and I was
671
:like, Hey, just be advised.
672
:Wait for this call.
673
:It's coming.
674
:He was like, are you kidding?
675
:And I was like, Nope.
676
:I was like, I told him to call you
'cause I got nowhere to put that.
677
:He was like, unbelievable.
678
:I was like yep.
679
:Because I can't make this up.
680
:Dixie: Yeah.
681
:I would've been like, well, if you spay
and neuter, it curbs those behaviors, so,
682
:Ashley: oh, yeah, I mentioned that.
683
:Or the better one is they're like,
well, we're gonna go buy a dog.
684
:That's one of my favorite things, like
people say to me, especially when we
685
:reject them because I told you I'm
a snob when it comes to my adopters.
686
:I have a very specific type
of adopter that we adopt to,
687
:and I'm a total snob about it.
688
:And I'll get certain
people and they're like.
689
:Well, this is why people go to breeders.
690
:And I'm like, okay, so go to a breeder?
691
:Like I, I actually don't
know what to tell you.
692
:That's fine, but you
cannot have one of my dogs.
693
:I'm sorry, but I'm not,
I'm really not sorry.
694
:Dixie: I understand that too.
695
:'cause I'm the same way and I do a
lot of bottle feeding I do kittens.
696
:When you put that much time and effort
into getting them well because Yeah,
697
:bottle feeding, they're very delicate.
698
:And then sometimes you have to deal
with things like, with illnesses
699
:that'll pop up and you essentially
have to go nurse them back to health.
700
:So I feel like if I'm gonna have
to be up in the middle of the night
701
:every two hours to feed a sick kitten
702
:I want that kitten to go to a home
with somebody who's gonna do the same.
703
:So I'm picky.
704
:Exactly.
705
:I'm picky too because it's like that's all
of my love and dedication and everything
706
:goes into taking care of these animals.
707
:And so I wanna make sure that they're
going into a home that's gonna
708
:provide the exact same for them
709
:Ashley: As you should.
710
:And that's, I love, like I said,
I keep going back to this I love
711
:what you said before about like
animal rescue isn't just for you to
712
:dump all your animals on us, right?
713
:It's here for a last resort.
714
:It's here for an emergency, it's here for
a medical case, it's here for whatever.
715
:And I've been there, right?
716
:Like I, I don't typically do cats.
717
:Occasionally, I told you I like
to fill needs wherever I'm needed.
718
:So occasionally I will do kittens.
719
:It's rare, but it's usually like somebody
found them and they're like, whatever.
720
:So I'll get them in and I'll take
care of them and I'll feed them
721
:and I'll do all the things until.
722
:I'll ultimately foster them through
our rescue and then send them to do
723
:adoptions with a partner rescue that
we work with that's like a cat rescue.
724
:And even in those situations I've had
kittens that came in practically feral
725
:that I spent time and energy befriending,
and I want them to have the best life
726
:ever, like I and every one of these dogs.
727
:And I don't know about you but I know
every time I get a dog back, especially
728
:a dog, that came out of like a situation.
729
:'cause no matter how hard we work, no
matter how diligent we are, no matter
730
:how meticulous we are, there's always
gonna be that like 1% of douche baggery
731
:that somehow manages to evade us.
732
:And the dog still ends
up in a crummy situation.
733
:It's rare, but it I've seen it a
couple times in my career and I don't
734
:know about you, but every time it's
happened, I've looked into the eyes
735
:of that dog and just felt awful.
736
:Like I was like, I made
the wrong decision.
737
:This is because of me.
738
:And I know we're not
supposed to think that way.
739
:And everybody's you can't think that way.
740
:But at the end of the
day, that's how I feel.
741
:Well, every time I have a dog that's
returned, every time I have the dog,
742
:especially a puppy that comes back
with behavioral problems, I'm like,
743
:damn, I should have picked better.
744
:I'm so sorry buddy.
745
:I should have picked better.
746
:Dixie: Yeah, I totally understand that.
747
:Ashley: Yeah, it sucks.
748
:That's the one part that, and like
only have to do euthanizations.
749
:'cause we have this puppy hospice program
that we started totally by accident.
750
:This thing came on and it's
such a long story, but it's,
751
:we call it Griffin's legacy.
752
:We call it the Baby Shark
program, and it's specifically
753
:for neurologic hospice, puppies.
754
:Okay.
755
:Like babies.
756
:And it is the hardest program.
757
:It is the most rewarding program.
758
:But I think when it comes to
the downsides of rescue, like
759
:we have a couple of downsides,
that's the one that's the worst.
760
:Anytime we have to euthanize
anything, I feel like it's awful.
761
:Anytime something dies, I feel
like that's the worst part.
762
:But I also feel like on the same
level, having to look a dog in the
763
:face and know you failed them, that's
something that like it, it falls.
764
:I don't know about you, but it
falls in the same category for me.
765
:Dixie: Yeah, no, I agree.
766
:Before we end the call, what final message
or advice do you have for our listeners
767
:regarding the animal welfare crisis?
768
:Ashley: Oh, God.
769
:Spay and neuter your animals.
770
:All of them.
771
:Train your dogs.
772
:Okay.
773
:Reach out for help if you need
it before you get to the point
774
:where you need to rehome.
775
:One of the biggest things I say to
my clients all the time is always
776
:is like my most disappointing thing
is I wish you reached out sooner.
777
:Don't wait six months make the call,
even if it's just to ask the questions.
778
:And I think, honestly, I think I
can speak for an entire community
779
:of rescuers and trainers and
whatever animal professionals.
780
:In saying we, we would rather
have you ask too many questions.
781
:We'd rather have you reach out with
something stupid that and send us a
782
:picture and are like, is this normal?
783
:Or, should I fix this?
784
:Or, we don't expect you to
be a dog like expert, right?
785
:But we do expect you to have the
common sense to reach out to the ones
786
:who are, and it's important to know
that everybody in the rescue community
787
:right now needs to band together.
788
:We need to help each other
in whatever way we can.
789
:Whether that's with information,
whether it's with education, whether
790
:it's with, help with transport, whether
it's somebody's got an extra foster.
791
:Maybe it's somebody has more
resources than the other one right
792
:now and they can step in and help.
793
:Or maybe it's just, hey, a
phone call for a plea for help.
794
:Right now, if you can't foster
volunteer, if you can't volunteer,
795
:donate, if you got no money, share it.
796
:Just keep sharing because right now,
the only way that the animal crisis is
797
:going to get better is if we all change.
798
:Like the communities have to change.
799
:The people have to change.
800
:The mentality has to change.
801
:If it doesn't change, it's
never going to get any better.
802
:We're not gonna be able to
un dig ourselves outta this
803
:one, like we're too far in it.
804
:It's gotta be something that
like changes as a whole for us
805
:to be able to fix it, right?
806
:Or we just have to hold on for
the next 10 years until everything
807
:finally writes itself and the adoption
population goes back up again.
808
:And the finances, the financial
world gets a little more
809
:stable or, that kind of thing.
810
:. So.
811
:Be supportive, be kind just be nice.
812
:Please be kind to one another.
813
:And like I said, train your
animals spay and neuter them.
814
:Take responsibility for them.
815
:Take accountability for them.
816
:Start working with them
before they develop problems.
817
:Build the kind of dog you want
instead of trying to correct it later.
818
:And always reach out and ask questions.
819
:Like I said, I don't think anybody's
ever going to turn around and be
820
:like, no, we, or shun you because
you asked if that behavior was
821
:a little weird and is it okay?
822
:That kind of thing.
823
:So, use the resources that are there for
you and don't wait too long to use them.
824
:Dixie: It's a great message,
and I would rather answer a
825
:question than take an animal back.
826
:That's the first thing that anybody should
do is, even another rescue if you're
827
:having difficulty with something just.
828
:Reach out to somebody else and see
they might be able to help you.
829
:Ashley: You'd be amazed.
830
:One thing that I've always found my whole
life is the power of a phone call, right?
831
:Even if it's just a, Hey, I don't
really know who I'm supposed to
832
:talk to about this, but I'm hoping
somebody can give me some guidance.
833
:You'd be amazed the kind of
response you're gonna get.
834
:There's never been a time that I've
done that where I've never somehow
835
:gotten something that benefited me.
836
:Whether it was knowledge, whether it
was the answer to a question, whether it
837
:was direction, whether it was whatever.
838
:It's make the phone call because
that's another thing, like we
839
:don't ever call people anymore.
840
:And it's something I also tell,
we work with teenagers too.
841
:And in the rescue and my teens, I tell
them all the time, like, when you get
842
:into college, make friends with your
professor, talk to people, call them.
843
:That's how you're gonna get your foot
in the door with things like, and it's
844
:the same thing in animal rescue, right?
845
:Make the phone calls, ask the questions.
846
:You'd be shocked how many
answers you're gonna get.
847
:Dixie: Thank you so much for
joining me today, Ashley.
848
:I really enjoyed our conversation.
849
:Ashley: Yeah, thanks
so much for having me.
850
:This was really fun.
851
:Dixie: We've reached all the time
that we have for today's episode . If
852
:you are enjoying our show, please
consider leaving us a donation.
853
:A hundred percent goes to our animals.
854
:Paws in
855
:the night Claws in the
fight Whiskers twitch and
856
:tails
857
:take flight
858
:They’re calling in Stories to spin
From the wild to the heart within
859
:Broken wings and hopeful springs
We’re the voices for these things
860
:animal posse hear the call.
861
:We stand together.
862
:Big and small Rescue tales We’ve
got it all Animal posse Saving
863
:them
864
:all
865
:The vet’s got tips The rescuer’s
grit The foster homes where love
866
:won’t quit From a pup in the rain to
a bird in pain , Every soul’s worth
867
:the
868
:strain
869
:Animal posse
870
:Hear the call
871
:We stand together Big
872
:and small Rescue tales We’ve got
it all Animal posse Saving them all
873
:Every caller tells a tale, every
howl a whispered wail, we rise up.
874
:We never
875
:fail.
876
:This
877
:is
878
:the
879
:bond
880
:The holy grail
881
:Animal posse Hear the call We stand
together Big and small Rescue tales We’ve
882
:got it all Animal posse Saving them all
883
:Every caller tells a tale Every howl
a whispered wail We rise up We never
884
:fail This is the bond The holy grail.
885
:Song by Suno.ai
