Shownotes
Bariatric surgeon Dr. Eric Smith joins the BariNation Foundation Podcast to continue the six-part series on the Levers of Control. Today's episode is about the second lever: Whole Food Nutrition. Dr. Eric Smith speaks with April Williams and Melanie Lindell to reveal why whole foods quiet food noise, how ultra-processed foods were engineered for overconsumption, and what it takes to build a sustainable, whole-food nutrition-based life after bariatric surgery and while pursuing a medically based weight loss program.
Don’t miss our first episode in the Levers series: Ep 287 - Mastering Your Metabolic Health and Weight Management
What You Will Learn in this Episode:
✅ Why GLP-1 medications blunt cravings for most foods but not for whole foods, easing food noise
✅ How ultra-processed foods are engineered to keep cravings coming back
✅ The link between emotional eating and metabolic wellness, and how to tell comfort from nourishment
✅ Simple, budget-friendly ways to start whole food nutrition without overhauling your whole weight loss journey
This episode of the BariNation Podcast is produced by the BariNation Foundation, a 501 (c) (3) dedicated to advancing metabolic wellness for people living with obesity by providing evidence-based education, stigma-free support, and meaningful connections in the moments that shape daily life. Funding is provided by the generous donations to the BariNation Foundation from listeners and viewers like you, Johnson & Johnson, and the Texas Center for Bariatrics & Advanced Surgery, led by Dr. Joe Cribbins.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Dr. Smith defines whole food nutrition as food with minimal change from nature, not a specific grocery store
07:27 Why the source of sugar changes how the body responds, not just the gram count
09:07 What makes a food ultra-processed, and how convenience and shelf life reshaped the American plate
15:36 Why everything in moderation only holds when the diet is built on whole foods, not engineered snacks
20:52 Food as comfort: unpacking emotional eating, addiction transfer and where cravings really come from
25:29 The Nature magazine study explained: GLP-1 medications blunt cravings for most foods except whole produce
35:46 The big tobacco parallel and why fixing the processed food industry matters as much as new treatments
38:51 Admitting some foods are eaten for pleasure, the results of taking on big tobacco and getting to the root of the problem
45:59 The cost of whole foods and the nutritional cost weighed
49:24 Examples of the perspective of eating
59:51 Practical, budget-friendly steps to start whole food nutrition today, one small swap at a time
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
💎 Diet soda and other zero-calorie tricks can quietly reignite cravings even without added calories
💎 Bariatric patients often lean on protein bars and shakes early on, but lasting health depends on shifting toward real food
💎 True healing from hedonic hunger means removing the trigger, not just numbing it with medication
💎 A foundation of healthy eating habits built on whole food nutrition is the best defense against obesity treatment relapse
ABOUT THE GUEST:
Eric F. Smith, DO, FASMBS, CAQ-MBS
Dr. Smith is a board-certified general, bariatric and robotic surgeon who has been in practice since 2006.
Kentucky Bariatric Institute - Website
Hyper-Palatable Foods: Development of a Quantitative Definition and Application to the US Food System Database - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.22639
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
BariNation Community - $19 a month
BariNation - Email
Transcripts
You know, you got your processed foods, your high-fat foods, your sugar [00:00:30] foods, all the different food categories. And so they s- they measured baseline response [00:00:35] to seeing it, then they g- gave the drug, and then they saw how much was [00:00:40] the response blunted, the noise- Okay ... you know, in your brain, right?
April Williams: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: And it [:April Williams: Welcome [00:01:05] to the BariNation podcast, a production of the BariNation Foundation.
e we fight obesity by living [:Natalie Tierney: Four [00:01:15] pillars, one mission. We're so glad you're here [00:01:20]
by Johnson & Johnson. We are [:Melanie Lindell: who need it.
Thank [:April Williams: Hello, friends. Welcome back to the BariNation podcast. We [00:01:40] are here for episode two of our liver series with Dr. Smith. Hello, Dr. Smith. [00:01:45]
alk about livers for a second[:Sorry,
't pass that up. It, I mean, [:Dr. Eric Smith: [00:02:00] from it.
a- and your liver. Yeah. So, [:Dr. Eric Smith: No, very happy to be here.
hat this is one of your most [:And there might even be a little [00:02:25] show and tell later. Melanie has a very whole food forward lunch that, that we might be able to show [00:02:30] today. But the purpose of this conversation is we want to, uh, [00:02:35] inspire you to think about eating a little bit differently after obesity treatment. [00:02:40] So the conversation is really about this second lever, whole food nutrition [00:02:45] and tracking.
t is that Dr. Smith and, and [:So Dr. Smith is joining us today [00:03:10] to teach us about this lever, why it's important, why maybe some of the myths that we [00:03:15] have about whole food eating are not necessarily true, and then some very [00:03:20] easy, simple steps that we can take to start changing our mindset around whole food eating, [00:03:25] and then actually taking the steps to incorporate more of that into, into our diet.[00:03:30]
So Dr. Smith, will you introduce yourself quickly for the people who've never met you before?
Dr. Eric Smith: [:April Williams: Long time.
ric Smith: We, um, you know, [:Um, and yeah, no, this is, um... I'm [00:04:05] always happy to be on here and talk with you guys about a variety of things, but this is definitely one of my [00:04:10] deep passions.
aking on this for a c- a few [:Mm-hmm. So we're all gonna kinda share our experience [00:04:25] with that, with that today. Yeah. And Melanie, w- will you introduce yourself to people who- Sure ... have not met you [00:04:30] before?
ge Island, uh, in Washington [:And, uh, as April said, I'm part of the BariNation board [00:04:45] and been with BariNation for quite a while, and have had the, I would say, the [00:04:50] privilege of having a dietician that has taught a lot, um, to me [00:04:55] very early on. And so I'm very grateful that many things we're gonna talk about today [00:05:00] are things that, um, were, were introduced to me from the very beginning of my journey.
April Williams: [:So let's just dive in. Let's start at the very top. Dr. Smith, [00:05:25] what is whole food nutrition?
, I think the easiest way to [:April Williams: Mm-hmm. [00:05:35]
oods is simply foods with as [:But [00:05:45] that sounds very encyclopedia-ish and, and scientific-ish, and [00:05:50] really, it's just foods that have not been changed. [00:05:55] Mm. Whole foods are just that, and I think we many times think of whole foods as [00:06:00] fruits and vegetables. Ah. And, you know, I'm all, I'm all good with fruits. I'm not a [00:06:05] h- I, I'm not, I don't crave a lot of vegetables.
them, but, um, probably not [:Natalie Tierney: Mm-hmm.
th: Rice, oats, beans, nuts, [:and combined that to still create [00:06:35] a nutritious food. It could be shrimp. It could be seafood [00:06:40] What we want people to understand is that they can build their diet off of [00:06:45] every type of food group when they play by the [00:06:50] rules of it being from whole foods. So- And when we let that [00:06:55] leak over into it not being built off of whole foods, that's when things get [00:07:00] really, really gray.
I, I just wanna clarify this [:Dr. Eric Smith: Sure. So I saw a patient [00:07:30] one time, or not a patient, this guy on a podcast, obviously [00:07:35] just trying to get attention. Mm. And he basically was trying to [00:07:40] say that a, a, a certain amount, let's say a cup full of grapes, [00:07:45] had the same amount of sugar as a Kit Kat bar. Oh. [00:07:50] And so therefore, that grape, those grapes were just as [00:07:55] bad for that child as the Kit Kat bar.
That is asinine. [:Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: That is [:how it, how it impacts all [00:08:30] sorts of things is completely, completely different.
il Williams: Yeah. Well, and [:Right. When it comes to... Yeah.
of the story out, that's the [:April Williams: Ooh. Oh Right. [00:09:00] We, we are, we are starting with the heat today, my friends
h. Okay. It, it's very true. [:April Williams: It's very true. It is, it, it is very true. It, Melanie,
ultra-processed foods become [:And ultra-processed [00:09:20] foods were made to overcome some of the barriers of whole [00:09:25] foods, right? Like, how long can it be shelfed?
Natalie Tierney: Mm.
w long can it get, stay in a [:Natalie Tierney: Mm-hmm.
accessed if it's in a bag or [:If I buy fresh berries, they're only gonna last so long, right?
Natalie Tierney: [:Dr. Eric Smith: Um, so a kid who, you know, is... It, it [00:09:50] also eliminates time, right? It's fast. We're not even gonna [00:09:55] go down the fast food path completely, but it's easy, right? Mm-hmm. I can throw a [00:10:00] Pop-Tart on a plate for a child much easier than I can just simply scoop some [00:10:05] fresh oats, which are whole food, add water to it, heat it up, [00:10:10] right?
so we may have talked about [:Yeah. And that's what happens [00:10:35] when we create these ultra-processed foods. We're paying a price somewhere by having [00:10:40] something easily at, at our consumption.
Yes. Right. And the goal of [:If this [00:10:55] is easier- Yeah ... this is what I'm gonna opt for.
Dr. Eric Smith: Yeah. Right.
Melanie Lindell: Absolutely.
d I think you said it at the [:Yeah. Protein powders, protein drinks. [00:11:25]
Natalie Tierney: Mm-hmm.
e are ultra-processed foods. [:April Williams: Mm-hmm.
h: But it also creates ease, [:April Williams: Yeah.
mith: But protein, when it's [:Oh, yeah. Like truly raw whey, like [00:12:15] from in a factory. It is horrid.
pril Williams: Yeah. Horrid. [:Dr. Eric Smith: So a lot of things have to be added to that to make it consumable, [00:12:25] to make it- Yeah ... taste okay, to cover up that terrible taste, whether it's [00:12:30] citric acid, whether it's artificial sweeteners, whether it's other preservatives and things like [00:12:35] that.
come ultra-processed. And so [:April Williams: Yeah. A- and that missing friction, right, can [00:12:50] really interfere with our overall health goals, right? Right. Because if you're consuming a lot of the processed or [00:12:55] the ultra-processed items, you on one level are thinking, "Oh, I'm hitting my [00:13:00] protein goals," or, "Hitting my macro goals.
ody's actually doing with it [:making the cycle- Vicious cycle. Yeah, [00:13:25] yeah ... yeah, go deeper and deeper.
ents early in the process, I [:You know? Mm-hmm. They're shredded or [00:13:45] they look healthy- Mm-hmm ... or whatever. And you got one person saying, "The only way you're gonna look like me [00:13:50] and be like me and live like me is if you only eat things that used to roam the [00:13:55] earth and bled." And then you've got another person who's saying, "The only way you're gonna look like me is to do [00:14:00] the opposite.
r eat those things. Only eat [:Mm-hmm. What I am saying is, is [00:14:25] both of those are based on a foundation of real food. [00:14:30] Mm-hmm. Eating whole foods, 'cause both of those are whole foods. And so when I look at [00:14:35] patients, they have done so much research and they've heard all these things, and we're talking about the [00:14:40] perioperative period of how to eat, and I'm talking more long-term.
ave to find something that's [:Mm-hmm. Same reason why if you take a medicine to lose weight, you stop the medicine and the [00:15:05] weight comes back, why are you shocked? If you take a diet to lose weight, you stop the diet and the weight comes [00:15:10] back, why are you shocked, right?
April Williams: Yeah. Yep.
thing that everybody can do, [:You may pick more from one versus the other. [00:15:20] Yeah. And here's what that is. Just eat whole foods. Just eat real food. [00:15:25] And if you do that, you don't have to deprive yourself of the sweet, [00:15:30] of the savory, of the fat, of the su- sugar, of the carbs, of the [00:15:35] protein.
April Williams: Yeah.
thing I think we have to be [:Very safely.
April Williams: Hmm. Okay.
n moderation, from the fruit [:Agreed. [00:16:20] I think we have to clearly define the difference between real food and fake food. [00:16:25] And so let's use an example
I [:April Williams: Yep. [00:16:45]
we consume something for the [:Like, what is, what purpose is this serving?
Jason Smith: [:Dr. Eric Smith: It doesn't mean that whole foods can't provide pleasure. I love steak. It makes, it- [00:17:05] I enjoy eating a steak, and it also provides me nutrition. But so we've [00:17:10] said that it primarily, its role should be nutrition. It's definitely primary [00:17:15] role shouldn't be pleasure.
April Williams: Yeah.
Smith: And if it's pleasure, [:[00:17:40] We could go on and on, but there's nothing in there. Even the carbohydrates are [00:17:45] modified starches that are not there to provide nutrition for us. [00:17:50]
April Williams: Yeah.
ave been blended together by [:It's built so that cookie is gonna dissolve in your mouth very rapidly. [00:18:10] It's going to, the cr- it's got a crunch to it.
April Williams: Yep.
ric Smith: It's got a savory [:There is [00:18:25] science behind that cheese puff. Yes. Why does it melt in your mouth?
April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: Because it [:April Williams: Yep.
Dr. Eric Smith: Now, [:W- who battle with [00:18:55] their weight. Yeah. Who are struggling with nutrition. Yep. Who are struggling with their weight. [00:19:00] I can tell you m- there are so many people we see that are, that are dealing with obesity, [00:19:05] that their initial labs we check, they've got a lot of deficiencies because- Mm-hmm ... they may [00:19:10] be eating-
April Williams: Mm-hmm
hey're not eating nutrition. [:April Williams: Yeah.
: I don't think we'd include [:April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: So but those [:April Williams: Yep. It-
y when somebody says, "Well, [:If that's okay, I do this." You just need to know what you're [00:19:55] signing up for
is key to all of this 'cause [:Dr. Eric Smith: 1,000%. For that No one can argue that.
April Williams: Right? [:That thing that- Right ... you can [00:20:35] return to time and time again where you emotionally feel better, but you're so [00:20:40] disconnected or you're so checked out from what your body needs because the disease is, is interfering with [00:20:45] that. All we know food to be, on a lot of levels, is emotional [00:20:50] safety, right? I mean- Right.
It's-
because, you know, somewhere [:It first met a need and, and now we're in a complexity of [00:21:20] like, okay, with the disease of obesity, I have to rework my relationship with food, but I have [00:21:25] to understand that the, you know, the synapses in my brain are saying, "When I [00:21:30] feel this way, go get that."
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
know, and I think we have to [:How many people say, [00:21:50] "You know what? When I turn to binge, or when I turn... My [00:21:55] relationships are struggling and I'm gonna turn to food." I can promise you, I don't go [00:22:00] throw a potato in the microwave and eat a baked potato.
Natalie Tierney: Absolutely.
: I don't cook eggs. Yeah. I [:my favorite pizza delivered.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: I will go [:April Williams: Mm-hmm ...
Smith: because we need that [:Our, our bodies are very smart, and [00:22:35] they gravitate towards those things.
April Williams: Yeah.
same reason, in my opinion, [:April Williams: Yeah ...
Dr. Eric Smith: you know?
April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: Like, people smoke cigarettes.
April Williams: Yes.
Dr. Eric Smith: [:April Williams: Yeah.
they just turn to food, and [:April Williams: Mm-hmm. A- and I, [00:23:05] and I know this is a big, big thing for you. You, you are on a mission to [00:23:10] call out food food and say, "That is, you know, this is food. That is not food."
Right. [:[00:23:40] You- Right ... I mean, I went into surgery saying, "I absolutely do not have an unhealthy relationship with food." [00:23:45] Yeah, it took me like- Right ... two days to realize, oh my God, I am 100% dependent on food, and I can't [00:23:50] eat any now right after surgery. It's- Right ... devastating. So there's a lot of things that are [00:23:55] working against people who are fighting the dise- disease of obesity, not because it's their fault, because [00:24:00] it's the system, the, the family, the culture, the history that they are just living [00:24:05] through.
So this is- Right ... groundbreaking news for a lot of people.
Eric Smith: Yeah. Yeah, and [:There are reasons why some people can say, "You know what? I'm gonna have a drink [00:24:25] with my buddies, um, on the weekend, and I'm gonna have one, and I'm gonna enjoy [00:24:30] the company, and I'm good." And there's some people who have battled with alcoholism, [00:24:35] and they can't have one.
April Williams: Yeah.
many- most people don't get, [:or, uh, recover from being an alcoholic by [00:24:45] drinking occasionally. Yeah. You know, that's not typically the recommendation. It is, it is- Yep ... get- [00:24:50] getting away from it, right? Yeah. So everybody's different. And so, you know, I use something as simple, I've [00:24:55] created a lot of conversation and controversy about diet sodas, and many [00:25:00] patients come in drinking regular soda.
switch a hand- you know, two [:April Williams: [00:25:15] Mm-hmm.
, and how does it impact not [:April Williams: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: And, [:I'm telling you they took it and they've run with it.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
Eric Smith: Because for some [:April Williams: Yep. "
ean, we don't even know what [:He- hedonic [00:26:10] hunger, overeating. There's a lot of different ones that we can talk about But there's [00:26:15] a really interesting study that was done in Nature magazine that nobody really talked about [00:26:20] what I thought was the most compelling part that came out of it. And what they did is they wanted to [00:26:25] look at the impact of GLP-1 medications on food noise, and they looked at MRIs [00:26:30] and MRI signaling.
ts to a different variety of [:you know, in your brain, right?
April Williams: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: And it [:And [00:27:20] so it's not that the GLP-1 didn't work, it's it couldn't work. Mm-hmm. [00:27:25] Because the baseline was so low that the impact it could have was negligible. [00:27:30]
April Williams: Gotcha.
lked about, "See? I told you [:Can we [00:27:45] possibly eliminate the number of people that depend upon this medication for that sole reason?"
April Williams: [:Dr. Eric Smith: I'm not saying eliminate it for weight loss.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
we are seeing more and more [:surgery, who eat their blank bars, who eat their blank drinks, and who [00:28:10] eat all their ways to get their protein in small [00:28:15] portions.
April Williams: Yeah.
ghrelin levels are settling [:Mm-hmm.
Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
Eric Smith: And I, I'm, you [:April Williams: Yeah. Right. Well-
Eric Smith: And now they're [:So I just always wanna encourage patients, let's control [00:29:20] the things that you can control. Mm-hmm. What if we remove this signaling? And it's not gonna happen overnight. [00:29:25]
Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
myself. Mm-hmm. Um, I was a [:I don't know what they do to the fountain, but it, man, it's so much better.
April Williams: It makes it crispier.
Dr. Eric Smith: [:Melanie Lindell: I had never heard about a crispy Diet Coke, but I, in this weight loss community, man, [00:29:45] that is a topic. Yeah. You know?
... regular Coke. Like, the [:Ooh. I grew up [00:30:00] in the South, so I, I figured out I can't drink sweet tea e- every time, but I like [00:30:05] unsweet tea.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
go to out for a nice dinner [:April Williams: Oh.
Dr. Eric Smith: And I was putting artificial sweeteners.
But I also realized, [:April Williams: Okay.
Diet Cokes. And so the more [:These have zero calories. They're not causing me to gain [00:30:40] weight." But once I went about four weeks without any artificial [00:30:45] sweeteners, not only did I not really need them anymore, but my [00:30:50] meal filled me. My cravings two hours after my meals weren't there. Mm-hmm. The [00:30:55] cravings later weren't there. Um, and so that's why I tell people, for those that [00:31:00] are out there promoting, "You can drink your diet soda.
ey're crazy saying you can't [:April Williams: Yeah. We're [00:31:25] gonna pause here and say some thank yous, because without the support of Johnson & Johnson [00:31:30] and the Texas Center for Bariatrics and Advanced Surgery, led by Dr. Joe Cribbins, this [00:31:35] episode might not be reaching you. Their support is ensuring that these conversations [00:31:40] find the people who need them when they need them most.
A big thank you to Johnson & Johnson
Melanie Lindell: [:April Williams: Melanie and I had this [00:31:50] conversation on the airplane coming home from ASMBS. She and I, I think we purchased [00:31:55] Wi-Fi on the plane just so we could, like, have this conversation. Duke it out. Yeah, [00:32:00] duke it out a little bit, because y- you know, we hear what you're saying [00:32:05] deeply.
, "Okay, wait a minute. I've [:Well, is that whole food? [00:32:25] But if you combine it this way, and if you make this, like, is that really whole food?" And it kept bringing us [00:32:30] back to, I think, the bigger question that we're after, and really that is, w- [00:32:35] what, what am I excited to do to help me reach the health level that I [00:32:40] really want to aspire to?
ngs, like Melanie, I'm gonna [:What about the things that I'm eating?" [00:33:00] And when we use the word diet, friends, in, in these conversations, we're not talking about [00:33:05] a specific diet, we're talking about diet as in the things that I'm consuming. That is my, [00:33:10] my diet.
Melanie Lindell: Right.
back, and you're looking at [:But you are, are already seeing benefits of making [00:33:20] tiny shifts to more whole food style eating. So what are you noticing? [00:33:25]
h a lot more quietly, right? [:These are all whole foods, and then I type that in there [00:33:45] and, and the, the argument, which it makes more sense to me now, and it doesn't mean that's a bad [00:33:50] combination to have. It's way better than something that is al- already processed. [00:33:55] But what I really took away from this little keyboard war we were in was [00:34:00] that why would we make it easy on our digestive system, right?
Like, it is [:on our behalf. And we also- Right ... don't get all the [00:34:30] benefits, um, from, from letting it do its job.
t. Yeah. Does it stay in our [:What are we [00:34:45] doing- Mm-hmm ... in bariatric surgery? We're creating restriction to where smaller foods make [00:34:50] us feel full. So are we hijacking that process? And it's not that, like you said, [00:34:55] Melanie, it's not that that's bad. There's way worse things that you can do. But- Mm-hmm ... why are we doing [00:35:00] that? What is it giving us?
I'm on my way to work, and I [:April Williams: Oh.
this is a bipart- this is a [:April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: And I'm not trying to get political at all.
no way we should be arguing- [:April Williams: Mm-hmm.
en big tobacco got blown up, [:April Williams: Yeah.
that's addictive," "Make us [:You don't wanna disown that. That's not healthy." [00:36:25] But I think that you can say that when you're talking about whole foods. When you're talking about some of [00:36:30] these other things, what other purpose are they serving? If I eat a Dorito, what [00:36:35] purpose is that serving? Yeah. No one can convince me it's serving any other purpose [00:36:40] than a reward
April Williams: Y- y- yeah.
er multiple support groups a [:If the purpose of this is to help me feel better or to shut the noise that's [00:37:10] going on right down up here, okay. Is that also grounded [00:37:15] in fueling your cells or your muscles, right? Or providing what your body needs to survive. [00:37:20] Those are two very different conversations, but that's not a conversation that we're used to having as people [00:37:25] fighting the disease of obesity, right?
to me is, how can I get out [:But [00:37:45] I think what is happening, what I do see kind of in the larger landscape now that more [00:37:50] people have opened up to the idea of treating obesity like a [00:37:55] disease, people are stepping back and they're going, "Wait a minute, why am I eating this?" Or, [00:38:00] "What really is going to help fuel my body?" Instead of just, "What is going to bring me [00:38:05] pleasure- Sure, right
kind of see that across the [:Right. [00:38:25] And I can't tell you, I mean, ever since our, our, our airplane keyboard war over whole [00:38:30] foods and knowing we were having this discussion with you, I truly have been looking at labels going, [00:38:35] "Oh, this really isn't whole food." Even though it's marketed as healthy and, and, you know, [00:38:40] whole wheat and whole this and protein that.
at that label it's like, oh, [:Melanie Lindell: product. Yeah.
e to get sidetracked because [:and, and the dyes and all this stuff. Obviously, if you stay away from processed foods, you're [00:39:05] gonna stay away from a lot of the dyes and other things. What, you, m- some may argue more than others [00:39:10] that's ba- that's worse than it is, or whatever, you know? Yeah. That's not what we're talking about here.
April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: [:There are [00:39:25] some people that can acknowledge, "Hey, I'm turning to this for pleasure." Yeah. But when they find that that pleasure [00:39:30] is becoming noise- Then what, at what point do we raise awareness [00:39:35] enough to say we have to remove the culprit of the noise before we treat it?
April Williams: Yeah.
r. Eric Smith: You know, we, [:Can you imagine if years ago we didn't blow up big [00:39:55] tobacco? So instead of the class action lawsuits and instead- Uh-huh ... of the, the, all the [00:40:00] people getting together and say, "This, they are creating an addictive product." Look, [00:40:05] back then people were making a conscious decision to buy a cigarette, smoke a cigarette.
[:April Williams: Yeah.
t was advertised as cool and [:So they [00:40:30] dug deep, they blew up Big Tobacco. And so what's happened since then? [00:40:35] Our i- incidence of lung cancer has dropped drastically.
April Williams: [:Dr. Eric Smith: It's not gone.
April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: But it's dropped drastically.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: But what [:April Williams: Mm.
Dr. Eric Smith: Our incidence of lung cancer would not have dropped at all.
April Williams: Yeah.
ith: We would just have more [:April Williams: Yeah.
Dr. Eric Smith: We have to [:[00:41:20] Well, I can show you people that both eat the same way, and they both eat crap, and one's obese and one's not.
April Williams: [:Dr. Eric Smith: But me as a bariatric surgeon and an obesity medicine specialist, I [00:41:30] sure as heck should be trying to prevent the disease that I treat-
April Williams: Yeah ...
c Smith: and then have great [:April Williams: Yes.
on't blow up the system, and [:never [00:42:00] get to the root of the disease of-
Natalie Tierney: Yeah ...
s provided for people, is it [:We're just gonna [00:42:20] advance more medicine treatments. Mm-hmm. So we just have this never-ending cycle of money that's [00:42:25] cycling, of treating a disease we never got to the root of the cause.
April Williams: Yeah.
Eric Smith: Is no different, [:But what if we can limit the number of people that need [00:42:40] the treatment and give the people who are s- receiving the treatment really clear-cut [00:42:45] direction that this is why your disease has a higher chance of coming back-
Melanie Lindell: Yeah ...
even if you did get treated [:Melanie Lindell: Yeah. You know, and I think like, you know, talking about like the disease of obesity is not like, [00:42:55] you know, a moral failure, but pretending that food quality doesn't [00:43:00] matter isn't compassion either, right?
ou've got to be able to have [:Dr. Eric Smith: Right. Yeah. Both can be right. Yes. Both of the [00:43:10] statements can be true.
body in biology is going to [:And I think as you talk all the time, Dr. Smith, this is one [00:43:25] of the most controllable levers that we have at our disposal, right? Is- Mm-hmm ... just [00:43:30] shifting how we choose to eat and what, what fuel we choose to put in our body. It is there, [00:43:35] and it takes work to make that, that shift, right? As you said, four weeks, right?
anie, I know you've done the [:You [00:44:00] really do have to put a lot of effort into, uh, making the conscious decision to eat this way today [00:44:05] or in this- Right ... meal. And you're making that decision over and over again. I mean, Melanie, it's your famous [00:44:10] saying, "What's the next right decision?" Mm-hmm. Well, the next right decision might be a challenging [00:44:15] one to make because the disease, uh, a- and the thing that's going on up here is [00:44:20] really asking you to make a, a decision that's over here in this is not nutrition.[00:44:25]
the reward for that work is [:Dr. Eric Smith: Right.
Melanie Lindell: Yeah. And I [:You're gonna have to increase your window of tolerance for meal [00:44:55] prepping, you know, like, you know, being mindful in your food choices and, and all of that, [00:45:00] um, because if you don't do that, then we, we are wired for convenience. We are [00:45:05] wired for ease. We are wired for relief, and relief and healing are not the same [00:45:10] thing.
or me when it comes to whole [:And really- Yeah ... [00:45:35] separate I am eating an engineered product, and I either need to own that, you know, as what it [00:45:40] is- Mm-hmm ... or I'm eating food, right? And I think sometimes we think, like, "Oh, it's gonna take so much more [00:45:45] effort. I don't have time. I don't have this." And there are so many ways that I [00:45:50] have figured out how to incorporate, you know, whole food eating and [00:45:55] not take more than just a couple minutes to put my lunch together.
April Williams: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: Yeah.
April Williams: [:We are taking a deep dive on whole [00:46:20] food, and we ran the numbers. Whole food is oftentimes the least [00:46:25] expensive budget-friendly item in, in a grocery store. Yeah. But we're [00:46:30] telling ourselves that it, that it is more expensive. It's just simply not true. It's- Right ... it's [00:46:35] available. It's not as expensive. And we acknowledge food deserts exist.
Yeah. But we [:Dr. Eric Smith: Mm-hmm. [00:46:55] Well, and our judgment gets based on visible volume, [00:47:00] right?
there's some popular trends [:Yeah. But we're saying a lot of food, right? Look at all this [00:47:25] food we bought for this price. Let's take away the fact that it's all junk But no one's ever said, "What's the, what's the [00:47:30] macronutrients in that food?"
Melanie Lindell: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
is the nutritional value of [:Mm-hmm. What are you paying per [00:47:40] gram of protein? Mm-hmm. What are you paying per gram of, of carbohydrate?
Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: You're never [:when you're starving, you know, you're out till 3:00 in the morning, you're like, "I'm hungry."
April Williams: [:Dr. Eric Smith: And so for a low, small amount of money on a budget, you can get a lot of [00:48:05] food. And we say, "That's a lot of food," right?
April Williams: Yeah.
ut how were we able to crush [:Because there wasn't a whole lot of substance [00:48:15] to it.
April Williams: Yes.
to feel a, fill a container? [:You can buy a big log of it, five [00:48:40] pounds of it, for pretty daggone dirt cheap-
April Williams: Yep ...
f meals. You can make a meat [:April Williams: Yep.
Dr. Eric Smith: You can make a hamburger.
April Williams: Yep.
t it with some eggs. I mean, [:it takes friction, right? Yep. And Melanie, you said something, uh, I [00:49:00] hope I don't butcher it 'cause it was, I loved it. You said, um, um, [00:49:05] healing and, um, relief are not the same. Yeah. I think that's what you said. Relief and healing are not the same. [00:49:10]
Melanie Lindell: Yep.
right? Mm-hmm. R- relief and [:Relief from the food noise by covering it [00:49:20] up is not the same as healing from the food noise by removing the culprit.
April Williams: [:And I looked at [00:49:40] it and I said, "I have plenty of food for, for me." I had [00:49:45] yogurt, cottage cheese, uh, I think there was an onion. I don't know, a little bit of cheese, whatever, you know. But to [00:49:50] him, the fridge was bare. To me, it was like, this is everything I need. But as a [00:49:55] bariatric patient, and as somebody on an obesity health journey, what you actually [00:50:00] need, right...
tarting to get this, because [:Because we are- But I
Dr. Eric Smith: bet he was exhausted. I bet he'd worked. Oh,
April Williams: yeah.
h: He was tired. Yes. He got [:And no one looks [00:50:45] at yogurt or cottage cheese- Yeah ... and says, "That sends us comfort." Yeah. But if [00:50:50] you ingest it, if you ignore the comfort desire and you ingest it, he will [00:50:55] be so much more fuller-
April Williams: Yeah ...
Yep ... if he would've eaten [:Yeah. Because you eat it and you're like, "Why am I still hungry?" Yeah. Like, I [00:51:10] could, I could eat that again.
April Williams: Yeah.
Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
husband's also fighting the [:about what life is going to be like for him after [00:51:25] surgery. And I understand- Yeah ... that panic and fear because that used to exist for me, too. When I'm hungry, [00:51:30] I just need to squash that hunger, and I'm gonna do it with whatever is in front of me.
Melanie Lindell: Right.
April Williams: [:I guess my point in sharing that story is we are going to go through [00:51:45] a, a very interesting journey when it comes to food when we choose to treat the disease [00:51:50] of obesity, and that journey can take us a while. But what- Absolutely ... waits for us [00:51:55] on the other end of that is a true level of health that we never actually thought was, was imaginable.[00:52:00]
Melanie Lindell: Yeah.
u do want to insert friction [:Our personal diet and the [00:52:20] goals- Yeah ... that we want out of it.
Yeah, go ahead ... for me is [:And when I get home, I'm looking for [00:52:40] comfort. I'm looking for- Yeah ... relief. I, because I can't tell anybody about what I hear all [00:52:45] day, and I've had to learn to accept, you know, like, you make sure that you're prepared, [00:52:50] right? You know, and so, like, we- you were talking about the pound of, you know, ground beef or whatever.
Like, [:Dr. Eric Smith: It's a better choice.
lanie Lindell: Um, and yeah. [:You know, and so, like, I learned how to make a meatball, and that one pound [00:53:15] of ground turkey- Made 24 meatballs. Yeah. Like, I had meatballs for the week, [00:53:20] right? You know, and then some. You know, and 'cause I'm not- Mm-hmm ... I can't eat 24 of 'em. Right. But [00:53:25] I have learned to just make, you know, the base, and so whether it be for my [00:53:30] lunch, whether it be for my dinner, I, when I get home, I still consider myself, [00:53:35] like, on the clock.
home. I swap out, you know, [:Dr. Eric Smith: true.
-ounce Hydro Flask of plain [:Dr. Eric Smith: Yeah ...
. So I arrive with just this [:It's a long day. [00:54:15] The only source of water is in the bathroom, and that grosses me out to get water from the bathroom. Mm-hmm. [00:54:20] So I come, and then the game is I wanna go home with a lighter bag, [00:54:25] 'cause I'm arriving with a very heavy bag full of fluids, but the visual of [00:54:30] seeing it, the visual in my fridge helps regulate relief and healing, right?
It [:April Williams: Mm-hmm.
, and that, that really just [:Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
the most powerful words that [:Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
ike, l- really, what is your [:Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Eric Smith: [:Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm.
fit differently right away, [:April Williams: Mm-hmm.
're doing is you're building [:No. [00:56:00] Is it doing the things that I can control to give me the best chance [00:56:05] to see tomorrow, to live longer- Mm-hmm ... to be healthier- Mm-hmm ... to age [00:56:10] gracefully, to not be brittle as I get older, to not have the same medical [00:56:15] problems, to lose weight in a healthy way? 1,000% yes. [00:56:20] So if you're looking for a guarantee, you'll, you will not find it not only in your [00:56:25] diet, but you won't find it in surgery or medications or therapy or anything else.
[:[00:56:50] Mm-hmm. And some may say, "Man, if I just do 80% whole foods-
Melanie Lindell: Mm-hmm ...
Smith: I'm able to control. [:And you have to figure that out [00:57:10] But this, without question, is what we ought to be telling people to build their [00:57:15] nutrition off of.
April Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Melanie Lindell: Absolutely.
we believe the same thing in [:How to figure out, okay, where am I? What's my, what's my current mindset? What [00:57:35] is my diet? What am I eating? And could it, could it move in a direction that is more [00:57:40] whole food based? It's not a s- you know, start from scratch, everything has [00:57:45] to go out. It's like, no, no, no, let's start with where we are. Let- let's understand where we are, and then let's [00:57:50] take steps to, to move it in a direction.
not, it's not just you or us [:And the [00:58:15] two things, the two levers that he continued to ask me to pull was f- nutrition [00:58:20] and, and exercise, specifically resistance training. And my response to him was exactly [00:58:25] what you said. "Well, how, how am I gonna know that this is gonna work? 'Cause I'm not gonna do anything if I don't have a [00:58:30] guaranteed return on it."
e very eloquently and kindly [:But it's so true. So friends, if you're watching and you're listening to this [00:58:50] and you're just saying, "Yeah, but, uh, how do I know if it's gonna work?" My response to, to you [00:58:55] would be, well, you know what works, what you're doing now. You already know that what [00:59:00] you're doing right now is not resulting in, in the results that you want.
And we're not asking you to [:Right. And that [00:59:30] is just a, a piece- They ate plenty of
Dr. Eric Smith: carbs, and they ate plenty of fat.
April Williams: Yes. Yep.
Dr. Eric Smith: They ate plenty of everything.
April Williams: [:to be, to be said about [00:59:45] the way that they lived. So this is an invitation to think differently. And, and really- Yeah Yeah ... that's, [00:59:50] right, that's where we're at.
to that, is that be kind to [:Like, eat just- Yeah So I would always [01:00:05] say add before you subtract, you know? Yeah. And, and know your vulnerabilities. Like, [01:00:10] I made a choice, and it wasn't for rules, it wasn't for punishment, but I [01:00:15] chose to eliminate all drive-throughs right before I had surgery. I have [01:00:20] not, literally, uh, Starbucks included, right?
doesn't make the place bad. [:Just start with something. Right. And be compassionate about where you need to start [01:00:45] versus where you see someone else and how they're doing it.
ve yourself time. Start with [:April Williams: Yep.
Dr. Eric Smith: But give [:April Williams: Yes ...
Dr. Eric Smith: that you're [:I will never- Mm-hmm ... [01:01:25] pretend that I'm someone that battles with obesity. I battle with the same thing everybody else does. As [01:01:30] we get older and we can't get away with the same things, and I have to be more conscious and aware, [01:01:35] but this is something that I have seen in my life, that I- was [01:01:40] not a firm believer.
ike you said, I always kinda [:[01:02:05] It's changed the way that I feel. It's changed my, my performance at work. It's changed my performance [01:02:10] to be able to exercise continually instead of, uh, hit it hard for two days and it takes me a week to [01:02:15] recover.
April Williams: Yeah.
if you look at the science, [:April Williams: Yeah
m-hmm. Period, end of story. [:April Williams: Yep. And friends, we will make sure to link in the show notes the most prominent [01:02:35] research that is out there about whole food eating so we can get you started, right, if you really are interested to dive a [01:02:40] little bit deeper i- into what that is. And m- my wrap-up question you guys just [01:02:45] did beautifully was, right, what's one kind invitation that you could extend to people who are thinking about, [01:02:50] about whole food eating?
you know is that I know that [:And I'm very much [01:03:15] an all or nothing person, right? So it's either I'm doing this all or I'm doing this none, and you're gonna get [01:03:20] tripped up in that. So give yourself- Yeah ... permission to enjoy your family and your food when, when you are having [01:03:25] those moments, and focus on that time when you are with yourself or with your own family.[01:03:30]
ou could eat today? Is it an [:[01:03:50] And I think all three of us have offered you three wonderful invitations to get this started. [01:03:55] And if you are interested in learning and practicing this more, join us in The BariNation Support Community. We do this [01:04:00] each and every day Dr. Smith, thank you for joining us for this second [01:04:05] episode- You're very welcome
o continue the conversation, [:Dr. Eric Smith: Yeah. Yes, thank you. All right. Thank you, guys. See
April Williams: you soon. All right, friends. Yes, bye.
We'll see you soon. [:Melanie Lindell: If this episode helped you,
us make the next one. Become [:One final thank you to our donors, [01:04:45] Johnson & Johnson, and Dr. Joe Cribbins of the Texas Center for Bariatrics and Advanced Surgery, [01:04:50] who make this show possible. We are deeply grateful for you.
rney: Thanks for joining us. [:Jason Smith: Our mission is to advance metabolic wellness for those living with the disease [01:05:05] of obesity by bringing you evidence-based education, stigma-free support, and [01:05:10] meaningful connections in the exact moments that shape your day.
eminder that the information [: