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54. Renegade Beauty with Nadine Artemis
Episode 546th August 2021 • The Good Dirt: Sustainable Living Explained • Lady Farmer
00:00:00 01:08:15

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Nature provides the greatest elixirs: sunshine, water, air, and plants. By harnessing that power and bringing these elements into our everyday beauty routines, we can embrace a simpler, more natural concept of beauty that is free from the questionable ingredients in many commercially available products, allowing these elements to revive the spirit and body. 

 Nadine Artemis has used plants as her teachers her entire life. Her curiosity and ingenuity led her into this exploration of ingredients at an early age, and since then, she has been challenging conventional notions of beauty and wellness by creating natural beauty products that are supported by extensive research into current science. 

In 1992, Nadine opened the first North American full concept aromatherapy store namedOsmosis. She now runs Living Libations, a company that provides organic and pure renegade beauty products that honor human health and beauty. Nadine is also the author of Renegade Beauty: Reveal and Revive Your Natural Radiance and Holistic Dental Care: The Complete Guide to Healthy Teeth and Gums, in which she shares her story and message of rethinking conventional notions of wellness. Curious to learn more? Join us on this week’s episode to learn more about Nadine’s story.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, Simplecast, Podtail, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Topics Covered:

  • Rethinking conventional notions of beauty and wellness
  • Using natural remedies to  enhance health
  • Becoming discerning regarding commercial products
  • Allowing the elements of nature to revive the body
  • Synthetic vs. plant-based ingredients

Resources Mentioned:

Guest Info

Connect with Nadine on her website Living Libations. (Use code LADYFARMER for 10% off!)

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Transcripts

Nadine Artemis: [:

Beauty is not another jar of something you're applying to your face. It's not even a quality. It's a communion, it's a relationship. It's a relationship with yourself. It's your relationship to the world around you. It's a relationship to how you feel.

Emma Kingsley: [:

You're listening to The Good Dirt Podcast. This is a place where we dig into the nitty-gritty of sustainable living through food, fashion, and lifestyle.

Mary Kingsley: [:

And we are your hosts, Mary and Emma Kingsley, the mother and daughter founder team of Lady Farmer. We are sowing seeds of slow living through our community platform events and online marketplace.

Emma Kingsley: [:

We started this podcast as a means to share the wealth of information and quality conversations that we're having in our world, as we dream up and deliver ways for each of us to live into the new paradigm. One that is regenerative balanced and whole.

Mary Kingsley: [:

We want to put the microphone in front of the voices that need to be heard the most right now. The farmers, the dreamers, the designers, and the doers.

Emma Kingsley: [:

So come cultivate a better world with us. We're so glad you're here. Now, let's dig in.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Emma, what does the word Renegade mean to you?

Emma Kingsley: [:

Well, when I think about the word renegade, I usually think of a person, but I guess it can also be a concept or an idea, but really anything that just goes against the grain or is brave to speak out and do something against the norm and not conventional.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah, to me, it means being outside the dominant narrative. To look at something from a different perspective, which is the unique gift of our guests today, Nadine Artemis of Living Libations, which is a holistic beauty and skincare company based in Canada.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Nadine is not only a veteran in the world of holistic beauty with decades of experience and research to back up everything about her products, but she is a visionary and a gifted communicator, as well as the author of the book Renegade Beauty.

Mary Kingsley: [:

It is a wonderful book in which Nadine takes on the conventional cultural concept of beauty and the industry surrounding it and expands it into to use her words, the idea of cosmoetics versus cosmetics or something that incorporates all of the vibrancy of life and the universe, and translates it into formulas for her products.

Emma Kingsley: [:

And these are not typical beauty products that are primarily looking to, you know, make your wrinkles go away or solve this or that problem. They're really about establishing a communion with the essence of vitality that surrounds us. And from that communion or a relationship with true vibrancy, we see an improvement in our skin and our hair and our teeth and anything else.

And it's really about feeling good and connecting with our environment and connecting with ourselves. And just as a reminder, nothing on this podcast is ever intended to be taken as medical advice. These are just ideas and things that we were thinking about.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yes, and I personally have found that when we allow ourselves the opportunity to widen the lens, so to speak on these topics of our times, we not only have the opportunity to use our own intuition and agency in discerning what our own truth is, but we get to avail ourselves to the vast store of creativity and inspiration that surrounds us everywhere. And in turn, helps each of us to find our own ways of making the world a better place.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yeah. So let's turn it over to Nadine, as she shares the story of listening and following that creative spark into a truly inspiring and amazing career that is still thriving and as relevant as it has been for the past 30 years.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So, here's Nadine.

Thank you so much for being with us today. We're really excited. I was so anticipating this and I'm enjoying your books so much. It's more like a reference book to me. First of all, why don't you tell us something about your story and how you got to where you are today as the creator of Living Libations?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, well, it's such a vast and varied tale. I'm sometimes never too sure where to jump into, but definitely spent my teenage years just doused in totally normal body care world. And I got all the hand-me-downs from my mother and my sister. So it was actually, even as a little girl was always like blending stuff in my mother's bathroom.

I mean to no good end, but I had that inclination. And then in my teens, I would like, you know, mash eyeshadows and mix it with the lip balm and trying to create different colors and stuff. But it was a little more grounded in once I was doing a science fair project and we got to pick our own subject and I found this book on perfumery and it was geared more towards kids.

And so it was just like that, like, this is where it comes from. Oh, like it's, you know, generally perfumes are made from plant distillates and there's things called essential oils and you could probably find them at a health food store. So then we made the big journey to a health food store because there were a lot less back then.

And then I got my first whiff of jasmine, ylang, orange, lemongrass, and it just really resonated with me in a really fresh way. At that time, I didn't quite get the delineation between natural and synthetic, but I knew this spoke to me on a different level. And I also felt like, oh, now I have the building blocks of things, you know?

And then I still was in my teen years and stuff, but it was really then when I got to university and, you know, I'm eating and cooking for myself. And I was skipping school one day watching, I was like, you know, first year it's so hard to figure out like the right courses or the whole navigating the system.

And I didn't have the right courses. And then the next year I got into women's studies and that was so great because then we were learning about our bodies and like even at a book called the beauty myth or what medical and physical stuff did our bodies go through in the lack of understanding of female bodies or, you know, the thoughts of understanding it in different cultures, even in our own culture, you know, whether it's thalidomide or lead in our lipstick, you know, all of this story and trauma sort of placed on the female body.

I found very much in all that we think goes with that and all that we do in the name of beauty, but that isn't, and that is actually, you know, causing our bodies to suffer. We're putting on cream in the name of beauty and preventing wrinkles yet the ingredients we're using are surely going to make for more wrinkles, 10, 20 years down the line. And so I've got to study that in the following year, which made sense.

Back to me, skipping school. And then I'm watching a talk show and Lisa Benay is on it and she's an actor and she was talking about food and like how it was like related to the environment and our health. That seems really normal now, but it was revolutionary. You know, we didn't know that it took like 50 gallons of water to like, whatever, raise a cow or, and I could be way off on those stats, you know, just like the environmental, it was awakening and pesticides and that whole thing, and how pesticides are like stored in the fat more.

And it was just really awakening. And then I was like understanding processed foods and it was really a whole period of a month. I kind of never went back to non-organic, non-processed. Luckily there was a farmer's market in town. Luckily I lived on the same street as this tiny little health food store that was in a house called Grains Beans & Things.

I'd walk by every day. I would get every bean. I got every book eventually. And one of those books was about how to read the supermarket, like food labels. And that was revolutionary because to just, that's like a whole world like just to dissect what we're eating, what's on a label, what's food, what isn't food. That brown sugar is like white sugar with molasses, that there is stuff in all brand that pretty much resembles cardboard, you know, and that stuff's only gotten fancier as we've moved on. Because that's almost like 30 years ago.

So it was revolutionary for food. And, you know, I was a student at times, so I'm like making my own food and that was awesome. And then I kind of just looked over to the bathroom and all the green products I thought I had from The Body Shop was just total BS.

Emma Kingsley: [:

But it had leaves on it.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah, and it was green.

Nadine Artemis: [:

And the palette and the textures did seem a bit different from other stuff, but really when you look at the label, the fuzzy peach bath oil had never been in peaches. The cucumber face toner never saw cucumber. The pineapple face scrub had no pineapples in it. And it's just like, you know, and again, with the labels, even growing up, when I turned over, you know, cause you're in the bath, reading your labels or whatever, and it's just all those words that you can't really pronounce any way and you never saw anything else.

You didn't really know anything else. But in that moment, it's like these pathways opened up and also back to that grade nine science fair project and working with the essential oils. So then I just endeavored to really find, you know, all the raw materials that I could. And I was reading a lot because luckily I wasn't that engaged with school that first year.

And I was like reading all these like older books on like from the 18th century on cosmetics, which were really looking at like ancient cultures' cosmetics. And I find that era fascinating because that was sort of, they were looking back and that was just before the turn of the 19th century, which then we move into the synthetics.

Where then we start looking at nature for like the isolates that we can make and then that sort of a different path, but, you know, for millions of years, but thousands of years or however long we've had civilization, I don't know. But for, for all of that time, it's like plants were used and sort of like the Egyptian priests were also the perfumers.

So there was a real union between, you know, plant matter and spirit and body hygiene, so to speak, you know, so it was just, it was a lot more seamless. But it was those raw materials that I just found so fun to work with. And then if I would read about an ancient recipe or a plant or a distillate, and I couldn't find it, then I had to, I had to find it.

And I also had fun, like remaking older formulas that were in those books, because I was like, well, why did they put together? Like, as much as I could remake something from an ancient Egyptian recipe, like the Kaifi or something and find those ingredients, it was just so cool to get a whiff of what sort of might've been experienced in that time of antiquity and how it was applied to the body.

So those were really fascinating years where I got to just explore and make. And just from that moment on just made my own body care and then, uh, was selling it to friends and family in university. And it was really loved and it was effective. It was doing stuff.

So you could put on a body, a leg moisturizer. And then I had stuff that would help like spider veins and stuff from waitressing or the foot cream was cooling or like acne was going away. Faces were glowing. So that was really great. And then as soon as I graduated, I knew, I mean, before I graduated, I knew my mission.

y store running in Toronto in:

Emma Kingsley: [:

Wow.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Oh my God. I'm so curious as to how back in 92 and before when you were doing all your exploring, how did you source these things? I mean, where would you even begin?

Nadine Artemis: [:

I know, it was before the internet. And I can hardly, like, I mean, I can imagine it because I did it, but it's like how? You know, and again, even like it was fun cause I definitely feel like one of the things I also learned in university was, you know, really honing in writing skills and research skills, even though you don't go to the library stacks anymore and look things up on like cue cards and computers and go through wonder the different hallways and find books.

It doesn't really, I'm sure that's like happening for some people, but it's just such a different way to engage with information. But I remember like I didn't even have a laptop then I had like almost a typewriter before a laptop. Anyway, you know, made up this letterhead and wrote a little letter about like wanting to, you know, I just made this cover letter and then I just sent it to kind of a lot of places on the planet to distillers.

I wrote to consulates and found out the distillers in those countries and looked for organic distillers and stuff. It was a lot of letters.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Wow.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Gosh. Where did you even know where to write? I mean, how did you even know about where to write?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, so some of them, I found resources and books and stuff that would then lead me to things. And then it was like working with yeah consulates and different countries and they know who their distillers are.

And then like a lot of distillers have been around for like a long time. Some of them, even in the nineties, I was working with like third or fourth-generation distillers.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So are you still in contact with some of those original sources?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Oh, so many of them are still our main suppliers.

Mary Kingsley: [:

That's is such a great story.

Nadine Artemis: [:

None of our distillers have stopped.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Wow. And I'll bet they will surprised to hear from you. Here's this young girl.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, it was a letter. I mean, I don't think they knew that. But I remember even like designing a little logo, a little letterhead, and then like just writing this letter, some people just thought it was the sweetest thing.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Isn't that cute. She thinks she's going to have a business. And guess what?

Emma Kingsley: [:

Well, I almost feel like it's a totally different podcast. And so I don't want to get too far into it, but it's amazing especially the essential oil industry, like everything that's happened kind of since you've started.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, although really that was all there before it's just sort of grown. And at that time, I think the book was written in the fifties, this French book. And it really went into the quality and how things could be adulterated or, you know what I mean? So it was like, that was one of the first books. But those sort of tricks of the food and flavor industry are still there and like way more refined. You know what I mean?

Cause that science keeps getting stronger and more refined. So the quote-unquote nature identicals are, you know, a huge thing. And then there's like adulteration and folding and refracting of essential oils, like a whole bunch of stuff, you know. But that's not what we use. And really also what I learned then too, is like the world, you know, the distillation of essential oils, most of the production isn't for this exquisite pure aromatherapy. Right?

A lot of its kind of like normal agricultural practices to sort of mass growing and mass distilling or they're distilling stuff for, you know, like you'll make menthol from the original material and that gets isolated, you know? So sometimes the original plant matter is needed to make the synthetic plant matter.

It's a whole thing and it's like, it's there. And of course, that's not what I focus on because I'm focusing on the real and I'm looking at the nuances within the real. So from my palette is all real. And then it's like, but still what's the best lavender of the real lavender's, what's the finest Rosato of all the beautiful, pure Rosato's.

So that's what I'm into. And always, always the best, the finest quality. To me, that's the easiest thing to be committed to is the absolute best quality. And I find that just sort of opposite of business practices often because it's about the bottom line and then not good quality or a lot of thought goes into like, how can what's inside the bottle be less expensive.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Right.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Right.

Nadine Artemis: [:

And I find that part irrelevant. It's going to be what it's going to be. It's what's inside the bottle that obviously is very, very important. But somehow right now, with marketing and marketing games, it's like more about the, what is the packaging or the label look like, or we get carried away with that by that.

And inside is just not worth a penny.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Well, I guess, so you developed your audience and they learned to trust you and what you were doing. That has been with you all of these years because there's certainly a lot of things that come down the pike that could, that could have derailed your business. Like, you know, someone saying, oh, I can, well, look, there's lavender over here. I can get it at the corner store. And it's not as expensive.

Nadine Artemis: [:

There's been lots of sort of knockoffs or attempts of whatever, but the quality... cause you know, all our ingredients are there. And, and then I also wrote a book and I put a lot of formulas in there and stuff. It's, there's a lot that's not complicated, but quality.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah. And so your customers, your people must recognize it on a very deep level because there's a lot of people out there that wouldn't like you just said, they're more interested in what the bottle looks like, or the price or whatever, but you obviously have a following that knows what you're about.

Nadine Artemis: [:

I think so. I think I also just came out of the gate the best.

So even at that young age and having the store, like I even found myself speaking at aromatherapy conferences and stuff in my twenties and finding just all these new colleagues because they also respected the quality that we had with essential oils. So they even knew that we were the real deal and that was really neat.

Emma Kingsley: [:

That's so inspiring and heartening to see. In my perspective, you're this big company and you have all this distribution and so many people know you, but it's like, you're small.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, we're really still, it's a beautiful company. And it's obviously bigger every year since back in 1992, but it's still a small company.

Emma Kingsley: [:

You operate with heart and with the integrity, I guess, is the best word. The integrity of the product and what you're doing in the world. I love how, even just in your story, telling you about how you came to it, you came from all these other places from food, and from the way that you were just engaging with your environment in general. And my experience of the brand is that it's a lot like that as well.

Your book Renegade Beauty has chapters on chapters of all sorts of things that it's not about makeup, and then your dental care book, Holistic Dental Care. So I guess I'm trying to say is as a brand and as a human, what you're doing in the world is it's all-encompassing and it's so full and really beautiful. It's such a gift.

Mary Kingsley: [:

It is a gift. You took the words right out of my mouth. You can like, you really know what it is.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley: [:

I want to talk about the term Renegade Beauty, and I think anybody that reads the book will get it. Like, what do you mean by that? But I'd like to hear you talk about that and how you came up with the term.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, I feel like, at that moment, we talked about, you know, coming from normal team cosmetic world and then diving in and understanding the whole connectedness of everything. And that's when my beauty got renegade. And I feel that you know, beauty is not another jar of something you're applying to your face. It's not even a quality, it's a communion, it's a relationship. It's a relationship with yourself. It's a relationship to the world around you. It's a relationship to how you feel.

And that, of course, we've got some tips along the way to take care of like skin and teeth. But I like connecting it to the bigger picture because you know, it's not another jar of something that's really going to ultimately revive us, revive our spirit.

We've got to go outside and like just outside our door and engage with the elements. Because that's, you know, it's like the earth. So the gifts from the earth as in good food, or, you know, the beautiful libations that we get to make from rose and jasmine, that kind of stuff. And then there's air, you know, fresh air and sunshine and water, or having a bath.

And when we can engage with those elements, those gifts from the cosmos. And I think of that as something like a cosmoetic. These cosmetics are something we apply, but cosmoetic is the substance of the universe that we're engaging in. And through that, we can revive ourselves and our being, which is to me, more of the root and the foundation to feeling and being renegade beauty.

Mary Kingsley: [:

I wonder if you would want to talk about how you veer off from things we always hear all the time, like, you know, you would get into your typical women's magazine. This is what you're supposed to do, et cetera, et cetera. And now here's Nadine saying, well, actually..

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, one thing I think in our culture, like in our Western modern culture, I think, well, we're starting to see like it's very symptom-based and really with life, I like to see, like, you know, what's the question before the question? What's the thought before the thought? What is the foundation or the root, like why this is occurring?

And so a lot of our sort of current whatever systems for taking care of our bodies are very much managing symptoms and not looking at the root of things. So in my inquiries into like trying to figure out how to care for myself, I'm always looking at like stepping back, going broad and then asking like, you know, what is the design of the body here.

Before we put on all our marketing and advertising and it needs this and it needs that. Let's just step back and look at that. And again, even biology, right? Even that's been interpreted and may be made after the male model for many decades and stuff. So again, we have to just keep peeling back the layers and trying to get the answers.

So with sun, it's like, well, there's all this caution, but the reality we can see all around us is that without the sun there would be no life. So why is this giver of life also this Deathstar? And so, you know, starting out with those questions and then really looking at. So then we bring in looking at history and biology and science, and then I do, I love the book format, cause I can really go deep and then, you know, quote the New England Journal of Medicine and all that.

Cause we've got, it's a pretty big program that, you know, the skin is going to be the harbinger of all doom on the skin. So we've got to like really peel back the layers if we're going to suggest otherwise. And so what we can know from looking at all these things is the sun is responsible for all life on the planet.

now is that there's been over:

Including tooth decay, including, you know, bone health, that kind of stuff. We know that if we have sufficient vitamin D levels, our risk of breast cancer is slashed by 50%, which is huge because I think even avoiding alcohol, maybe slashes it by 15%. So now, you know, you can have a margarita in the sun.

Emma Kingsley: [:

That's great.

Nadine Artemis: [:

So we know that we know that if we don't have sufficient vitamin D in our vitamin D receptors, that bacterial lingons can come in, they're very sticky, and they kind of shut down the whole immune system. For example, we also know when we engage in the sun, that yes, there is this vitamin D is created and it's a different type of vitamin D than the supplement we get at the store, which is a fat-soluble vitamin D and the sun on skin situation and creates a water-soluble form of vitamin D.

It creates a very healthy and necessary cholesterol sulfate. And vitamin D really isn't even a vitamin. That's just what it was named, but it's really a precursor to a hormone in the body. And so when we have the right amount of sun and we're not overdoing it, then it's actually kind of juicy. It's like a juicy thing.

It's like a liquid lubrication from the inside out. It helps our microbiome, you know, produces anti-microbial peptides creates this one peptide called LL 37, which is a short-chain amino acid, which literally prevents cytokine storms in the body, for example. So there's so much going on that we know about that is so essential and positive for the body.

And there's going to be so much more that we're going to discover. We don't even know all of the wavelengths in a sunbeam right now and what we also now know. I think in the nineties when I was approaching sunscreen, that kind of thing. I mean, we knew about the chemicals and that, you know, so there's like, you know, fertility issues and whole bunch of things that if we really went into it, you wouldn't want to use those chemicals.

And one of the main ingredients that is now banned in your Oxy Benzene, but it's still in a lot of sunscreens. This is killing the coral reefs, not from the pollution in the ocean, but literally from bodies slathered in sunscreen, in hotspots where like the Australian coral reef and the area around Hawaii, that they banned that, uh, type of sunscreen in Hawaii, for example.

So, I mean,  it's catching up. Like it can't be soon enough. So the other issue besides the chemicals, which is enough in my opinion, but that might just make some people scared and go great. Okay, well, I'm not going to use sunscreen and I'm not going to engage with the sun either. Cause we think it's going to cause all this other stuff to our skin, which we don't want.

Meanwhile, using the sunscreen is aging us. In the book I have one state it's like from the Cochrane review, which is the amalgamate studies and then creates a study out of those studies. And I'm generalizing here, but generally through the use of sunscreen, more moles, more freckles, and more skin dysbiosis.

When we use sunscreen, it divides the reception of the rays. So we, instead of getting UVA and UVB together, it filters out the UVB, it filters out the vitamin D producing UVB, what we need and we just get UVA. And UVA on its own is skin damaging.

Yeah. So that's like, you know, you're a trucker and you're you know, driving all the time. And that one arm by the window has more freckles because the window is filtering out the rays and you're just getting the UVA.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah, I heard that recently that the window does that.

What would you advise? Like, look at my daughter here. She's like red hair, blue eyes, her skin is like, you know, very, very fair. And, uh, I guess your entire childhood we were slathering stuff all over you, you know? And I don't know. What do you tell someone like that?

I'm fair, but not as fair as she is.

Nadine Artemis: [:

You want to start slowly and start in the spring, you know, maybe it's just 5, 10 minutes at a time and then you build up and you just slowly but surely build up the melanin layer.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Oh, wow. So you really do like build resistance. Because obviously, I'm assuming burning is bad.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. So, you know, we're not advocating sunburning or like ridiculous amounts, but like it's still, you'd be amazed at what you can actually drink in. And it wasn't until about three summers ago, I said to him, I was like, oh, this was by August. I'm like, I feel like I'm finally really saturated.

It happened to be a very sunny summer and we use the vitamin D app. I mean, it was ‎D Minder and yeah, it just, it takes in your latitude longitude. And you can put like, you know, generally how much body you're exposing, like what percentage, if you're naked or if you have a bikini, that kind of thing.

And then it will tell you how long that day, um, based on your longitude to latitude, that you need to be in the sun to get the vitamin D. And so we go by that. But I start, even though we're in Canada and there's snow all around, many feet of it, the vitamin D is coming back into the sun's rays here mid-February.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Wow. Is there still vitamin D if it's like if you're in a place like Seattle where it's cloudy.

Nadine Artemis: [:

No, you got to have no cloud. I mean, like there is some through the cloud, but we're talking like, you know, obviously you can get sun on cloudy days and through the clouds, but the Seattle gray blanket, no, you're not getting it. So it's generally on the sunny days. So it's not going to be every day as well.

So you got to, you know when you build up. Like in February, if I were to lie out to get the whole, what I needed, I would be doing about four hours a day. Which I didn't do, but that's like, you know, but I was just slowly building it up.

Emma Kingsley: [:

And do you supplement at all? I mean, do you take like supplement vitamin D?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. I'm usually I can see when it's running out. I can feel when it's running out, I can get vitamin D till about mid-November. And then it's like, you are like a battery. You can store it up. Like right now I have extra and I'm storing it, you know, it would go like in between sunny days and then I try and build it back up.

So I'm building, building all I can. I squeeze out every drop I can until mid-November. And normally we go away February, but of course this year we didn't. But then I really looked up because we're not normally here in February, I was like, oh, I kind of thought it started in March, but I was like, oh my God, eight more days and I can start again. So that was really important for me this year because we didn't have that.

So at the moment, I could get the vitamin D I was like opening up our sliders, you know, and I just be like half in the house and half on the deck. It was maybe minus 20 outside, but I was getting the sun.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So you said you could tell when you're running low, what does that feel like? What are your symptoms so to speak?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, I can literally tell because of the ‎D Minder app, but I could feel by January, I just feel like my immune system, you know, doesn't quite have that solid, solid footing.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Would you say you also feel it like a craving? Like, you see the sun and you just like go outside and have to be in it for a minute because it just feels right.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Oh, yeah. Which I feel also is like the advice that we get is a bit against how we feel. That was the thing too. Like even as a teen, I was like, I get what you're all saying, but I feel so good. And I feel happy and I feel good when I have that little hint of like glow and melanin from my engagement with the sun.

It's almost too, like, you always feel like it's with you, you know, and we really can store it for a bit. And so, yeah, by January, I'm usually adding some vitamin D and stuff.

Also, we got to remember it's a relationship. So what are we bringing to that sunshine moment? And yeah, if you're fueled on Coca-Cola and Mazola, that might not be the best body to be suntanning in, you know, corn, soy, canola, the processed polyunsaturated fatty acids shown to be one of the biggest harbingers of premature aging, wrinkles, and hyperpigmentation of any of our, what we're doing to our bodies. So that is the number one.

Mary Kingsley: [:

We've been given such a line about the vegetable oils being the healthier ones.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, we have to look at what size is the industry behind product? Not always an issue, but often if, especially coming out of our past 50 years of commerce.

Emma Kingsley: [:

What about those mineral sunscreens like the zinc oxide?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. So Everybody Loves the Sunshine. We make a golden tanning oil and that is just like juicy. Now for your beautiful, pale complexion and red hair, you can use it, but it might just edge you out to like, oh ten minutes of suntanning, but for a Mediterranean person it might be like, this is all I need all day.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Okay.

Okay. So, but that brings in the sun. You're getting the vitamin D and it's not an SPF. It's not a sunscreen because that literally SPF only for chemicals. So that's like a whole other thing. However, metaphorically it's like a six or a seven and that's like jojoba oil, olive oil, coconut oil, and those beautiful plant oils are like a natural six or seven without doing anything to them.

Then we're adding in things like red raspberry seed oil, which seems to show to scatter the sun's rays. Some people say it's like an equivalent to like a 25. It's just good for harmonizing and cause we're not blocking, we're not screening. We're joining. We're like receiving the sun's rays and we're helping them land and be drunken into the body, so to speak.

And with that, we add like other essential oils that are very good for sun damage, like, uh, previous things or melasma, and it's calming if for some reason you got a little bit of a burn, that kind of thing. Now also we don't want to burn, but if you do burn, your body can deal with that. It's got a whole system to deal with that much easier than it can than processing, dealing with like six hours in the sun with sunscreen and chemicals.

Mary Kingsley: [:

And is it correct that though the morning sun, like sunrise and those early morning hours are particularly good quality sunlight?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. It's quality in so many ways, but really your tanning window. I mean, you can whenever you wish, but the juicy time is from the morning till solar noon. Yeah. Which can be, you know, noon one or two in your area.

And so, you know, you don't have to get out of the sun at noon per se, like 12 o'clock because it might go to one, but also if you are tanning at noon, that actually might be a pretty efficient window where you can get more in a shorter time. Right? Cause then if you're just starting your, you know, tanning at eight 30, Then, you know, the same amount, you know what I mean?

But I like lying in the sun, so I'm very happy to have extended moments and go for a swim. And then I come out and like oil my body up with Everybody Loves the Sunshine and I'm kind of pale like my lineage is English and French. So the English side is pretty, pretty white. You know, as a kid, I felt like I kind of burn easily, but in the past 10 years I feel like I've built up.

So even by January, it's like, it's all faded, but I still have like a base layer that just seems different than before.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Ever since I received my bottle of Everybody Loves the Sunshine, I've been going out, you know, early in the morning, just after sunrise and putting my lawn chair to face the sunrise. There is this certain part of the yard, and I've just been enjoying that so much.

Nadine Artemis: [:

What a great way to start your day.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah. And then just trying to, you know, listen to my body and when it feels too hot, like, okay. You've had enough. Okay.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. Sunscreen takes away our warning signs. We don't know when the skin is getting a bit pink, you know, that kind of stuff.

So, and we're kind of anesthetizing the skin. So we don't want to like soften or numb the edges of our knowing our body.

Mary Kingsley: [:

I'm just so grateful for this like reframing of that whole thing.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. I just wanted to add that the zinc. So we've also made it, Everybody Loves the Sunshine with zinc. So it's like take the oil, add in zinc and you can use zinc, but it's a sunblock, so it's not a sunscreen. It literally, the sun bounces off the zinc. So it literally is like deflecting the rays and you're not absorbing them.

And then it is, it's a natural solution. We just don't really have anything in between. But at that point too, I just, you know, I like tanning my face, but it obviously can't stay in the sun as long as my legs. So, you know, I would just use a hat or something like that after a while. Cause I want to stay in the sun longer. And then the zinc you can use, you know if you've got extended periods of time in the sun surfing, that kind of thing.

Emma Kingsley: [:

I find it fairly easy to find these days, which is encouraging the like mineral zinc, sunscreens.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Do you want to look for? It's gotta be a non-anodized zinc. And often cause it's in the health food store, whatever. I find that it's rancid, So then all the other oils that are with it, it's just rancid. So you want to look yeah for that kind of quality of the zinc and then quality of the other ingredients with it.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yeah. It's crazy like you put it on and it doesn't rub in.

Nadine Artemis: [:

No, I know. I mean, it's definitely an improvement over the lifeguard stripe of sink down the nose. It can create a white cast, but it definitely protects naturally. You know, a lot of people have been programmed to like if they're walking from like the mall to their car, that there must be sunblock on, you know what I'm saying?

Like that women are supposed to start their day and even if they're only going to be walking outside for 15 minutes in that day, better start the day with the sunscreen or the sunscreen foundation. And all I'm saying is you can handle it. You can handle those 15 minutes.

And you can let your skin breathe, you know, but really when you're also working with all these richly pigmented, beautiful oils, even like our facial serums create, I mean, add a little bit of that sun harmonizing.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Well, also if your skin is nourished and then it has the ability to handle the environment, rather than it's just, just being, you're just putting just this junk on it and it's, you know, sort of struggling to deal with that.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. Well, it's like, we've been applying things to be this sort of armor, whether it's an armor from protection of aging or this sort of armor of protection of like the sun or the environment or things, and it's just not the right approach or it's just, it's a strange approach because then the skin isn't breathing.

Emma Kingsley: [:

And there's no relationship.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Exactly. Yeah. And then it's like if we've cut out because every part of our body is like having some kind of respiration. Not like the lungs, but like the teeth breathes, the skin breathes. And we need to allow that. Most, like if you've got petroleum or a polymer in a product it's like kind of having an invisible layer of saran wrap on the skin.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Well, that's like wearing clothes with synthetic fibers.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Like a polyester underwear or something where you're not breathing. And then, you know, or just like people that like, oh, they have a foot odor problem or an arm odor problem underarm odor problem. And I'm just like, well, first of all, like, you know, if you've got poly in your sock or your shirt like if it's a poly-cotton blend in your t-shirt, you're going to have smellier pits.

So, first, get to the hundred percent cotton shirt. If you got feet in like poly socks and in synthetic shoes, yeah, they're going to be smelly, but wool socks, cotton socks. Most of the problem is solved.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Well, you know, for so long, you know, we've sort of gotten accustomed to the word synthetic or blends or acetate or polyester, all those kinds of things.

And I think it's helpful for people to understand that those are actually forms of plastic. You know, it's just another fancy word for plastics and plastics don't breathe.

But speaking of your products, your products and your descriptions of them, when I first saw your, you know, website was reading about it, I was like, who writes these? And it's you.

Nadine Artemis: [:

It is.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Oh my gosh, you really take it to another level in a very real way. I was like, oh, this is beautiful and engaging. And they're so engaging.

Emma Kingsley: [:

We should each say our like top two favorite that we're using right now for people listening.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Okay. We were gonna, I was going to ask you, Nadine.

Emma Kingsley: [:

We're going to ask you, but we should say ours.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So Everybody Loves the Sunshine and then the rose serum, which just makes me so happy. I think I don't know. You just put certain things on your skin and it's just like your skin, does this make sense for your skin to say, yes? You know, you rub it on your skin is going yes. Yes.

Nadine Artemis: [:

The pores and the bacteria, are like ah thank you.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So my skin says yes with the rose serum and my whole body says yes, with the Everybody Loves the Sun, and also I'm going to cheat and do one more. Something about the tooth, the gumdrops?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, the Happy Gum Drops.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So at first I wasn't sure what to do with that. And then I was reading about it and I realized, gosh, this can be anything.

This can be just like a little mouth fresher or, um, you know, a gum massage or a mouthwash. And I'll tell this little story. My husband does listen to the podcast, so maybe he won't mind. But I noticed he came home from the store the other day with the typical big jar of mouthwash that he's gotten for many, many years, despite being married to me, but that's okay.

You know, each to their own. And so I said before you open that, I have something for you to try that you might really like. And I don't know the end of that story, because that was this morning.

I was hoping that maybe he would try the gumdrops as a mouthwash. And I asked him about it when I saw it. And he said, yeah, but you need the fluoride. So I want you to talk about fluoride after Emma tells her favorite products. And then we're going to have you tell you your favorite products. Sorry.

Emma Kingsley: [:

So mine are definitely The Rose Glow Serum. That was like the first thing that I got from you guys that I tried. And it's really amazing. So amazing that I also most recently got the Best Skin Ever, the Rose Best Skin Ever. I'm not even sure I completely understand the difference, but I use them the way that it says to.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, it's a few different ingredients, but the serums are a little more concentrated, but you can literally use them in the same way. Like, remember I was telling you at the beginning like I use the Rose Glow Serum all over my body sometimes.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yes. So I use The Best Skin Ever sort of as a, like a cleanser. So I put it on and with a slightly dampened washcloth sort of wipe my face and then put more on. And then, yeah. And the serum, I use it kind of like, uh, as a moisturizer or everything.

So I love those. And then I love actually, this is kind of a random one, but I love the Moon Shimmer. It's like a lip balm and a highlighter.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. You can even do like the brows. Yes. The brow bone.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yeah. And then I also love the Poetic Pits, the roll-on deodorant oils. They're amazing.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Which ones did you get? I love the rose one. I love there's the classic one. I love the way that that smells.

And don't they work for days until your next shower? If you're not showering every day.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yes. Amazing. And I love the way that they smell and I haven't used it in a while, but I know the feeling of when you use regular deodorant, it doesn't feel good in your armpit.

It's kind of like, like it kind of like dries up or it does something weird. I don't know. And so I just love using those oils. They totally work.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So it's Best Skin Ever the one that can, that says it's a cleanser and moisturizer.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. So we have a beautiful array of Best Skin Ever's, and yet on one level, it's the bottle that could do it all. You could literally, a man could shave a beard with it. You can do your whole body with it, and you can do, you know how you're doing the cloth damp claw with the Best Skin Ever to cleanse the face. That is so fun to do also when you get out of the bath or the shower, cause you get that deeper, but light exfoliation of the whole body.

And then the oil just gets really drunken into that body, like whatever the word is. So that's the fun thing about the Best Skin Evers or like when I have my massage, I just bring the bottle, you know, that's my massage oil as well. This week we are launching a new Best Skin Ever immortelle. So it's immortelle's Best Skin Ever.

It is gorgeous. And it's also good for sensitive skin or people that love our sandalwood Best Skin Ever, which is for a lot more sensitive skin and mature skin. You know really, it can be for any skin, but it specializes in those areas. And then we've also made two new DewDabs. So those are like little spot treatments, or you can add them to serums or you can mix them with clay and make little, even like little spot masks and stuff.

So those are extremely popular and well-loved. And I didn't know, cause we have four, we have Zippity DewDab, DewDab, BeDewDab, and JewelDab you know, cotton, one calms and cools eczema. We've got one for like rosacea and scars and all that kind of stuff, hyperpigmentation.

So, and we've really got, they're all complete and we cover each thing, but two new DewDabs wanted to be made. So I must, uh, I've got to follow orders and we now have Morning Dew, which is like a sister to the DewDab, the classic formula, which is also good for melasma and hyperpigmentation, just a different set of botanicals, you know, which is sometimes just the shift people need and the smell is divine.

Like, I know we're going to get requests to perfume that and make it into other things. And then we've got, Dew Queen, which it's got frankincense in it, but also rose auto, a nice amount and peppermint. And those two together are like a kind of a freezing analgesic. I mean, mild, not like this is not medicine or like pharmaceutical medicine, but very gentle kind of freezing, which is what you just need sometimes with a little cut or a bite or a bruise and I used to make it for just little custom bottles for like people or celebrities that were doing, there's a plasma facial. It's pretty cool. Cause it's your own blood removed and then it goes into a little spinner and then the plasma is separated. So you have this juicy stem cell, rich golden fluid.

I mean, if you're healthy, hopefully, and then that gets put back into the body. So in dental care, really good dentists use it after they've done an extraction or a root canal, or like clearing up an old one to regenerate that area brings stem cells. So for the next six months, stem cells go to the area and help heal.

You can use it for like knee injury. But also there's a facial application. And so instead of like, I mean, I don't think it works like as magically and as fast as a Botox situation, this is more like longer and more needles but it's your own fluid going back in. Anyway, long story short people need the freezing, that little bit of sort of coolness before the needles go in. And literally, sometimes you can get a bit of bruising from the little microneedles, but it takes away all the bruising and swelling.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So now I'm going to combine a couple of questions. One of them is you're obviously person that radiates just such wellbeing and beauty just in your life and your work. And so, I was wondering, can you share with us something of like your daily practices, like a day in the life of Nadine and that can include your favorite products. We were going to ask you if you were stranded on a desert island, what would be your favorite product? So what are your daily well-being practices?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, well, I like to integrate things into my life. I don't like things to be like a separate action. So to me, sort of the altar of my existence is like our whole existence. It's the land, it's the sun and the water. The whole home is like an altar. You know what I mean? I mean, it's not, but it is. So that's like, and so every time, I mean, I know I'm using the libations, so I know that's good, but it's like, I don't even feel like I need to even ritualize beauty care because it's already in this existence.

It's already beautiful. It's just about like, you know, taking that moment to apply it to the body. And so I really like to weave things in, so it's not like my self-care is like a separate moment or like now I'm going to really spa down. I mean, for me to spa down, it's just kinda like put oil on my hair and leave it there for a few days, you know, or like extra oil on my face and like sitting in the sun and like long baths.

So that's sort of the spa for me and right now though because that's my main season. So for me, my self-care really involves around sunning and swimming and just being in nature. You know, even so much that like, just to work in nature. So I set up a little office on the dock, my little dock office for the summer and, you know, and then integrating meditation.

But again, it's just something I do before I'm fully awake. I'm just in bed. I don't even sit up or it's like, I do it before bed. Or, you know, I have a moment maybe an hour where I'm just sort of thinking, looking at the window throughout the day, not every day, you know? So it's like there's moments of meditation, but then I also just kind of, what is it like to sort of live meditatively rather than again, being a separate action and I don't try and eat well, all the options are well, you know, it's only good options here.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yeah. You don't restrict yourself.

Nadine Artemis: [:

I don't restrict myself. No, not at all. And so some people like I eat very clean and I have for like a couple of decades. So people may look at that and they go, oh my god, you're so disciplined and stuff. And I'm like, I have zero discipline when I feel the reality or the truth of something.

Then that is all the inspiration I need to have the energy to do it. If like something isn't agreeing with my body, it does not take effort to not eat it. So really I try to not have effort in areas and where there is effort, it makes me think, okay, what's up here.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So often you hear, you know, it's almost kind of a checklist, like a morning checklist of things you do every day to get a good start or whatever. And then that becomes restrictive.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. I mean, hopefully, I'm looking at the sunrise. Yeah. And getting some quiet time in and being with nature. That's kind of it.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So the ultimate in slow living is like really creating or curating the life you want to live all the time.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. And that's, a, you know, deep series of choices that for some reason, for my life, even I can see now I can see even things like being grade 5, 6, 7, where I was like, saw something and was like, no, and then I didn't look back. And I was like, no, but yes, to this, yes to this. Yes to this. I know my no's. Like my dad had some nursing homes and stuff. So I saw that right early on. And I was just like, no, we're not going to be 70 on drugs watching TV in a building, hopefully.

But so when you know that, then it's like a whole bunch of other choices get made. So it's like just a series of choices that keep putting you in the spot you want to be. And also, I remember Oprah a couple of years ago, just said a lot of people try and create a brand and there's like, have the marketing meeting and then the concept, and then it's just like, okay, this is it. But she explained it, which feels right, is it's a series of so many decisions and you keep sewing a thread of consistency through it all. And so I feel like even that with life choices.

Mary Kingsley: [:

We like to remind people in this whole, you know, discussion of sustainability and slow living and that it really is all about the choice. I think a lot of times we have a story about ourselves and our lives that we don't have a choice. And sometimes we don't, but there's always something that you have a choice in.

Nadine Artemis: [:

You can choose your thoughts.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Exactly.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Or you can choose how you reacting.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Totally. You can't always choose your circumstances, but just what you said, you can certainly choose how you're going to respond to that and what you're going to make of it and the choices and the products you use.

You know, the choices of what you do with your time. There we might feel trapped by circumstances or whatever, but on going deeper and close reflection there's something, there's something we can choose to take our life more in the direction that we dream about.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. With each thought. Each little thought can be a micro-step towards what you want. And it should be the only thing that stops that is your thoughts that are in the opposite direction.

Emma Kingsley: [:

You did mention aging, and I would love to know if you could just speak a little bit on your own thoughts about aging and how much time and energy we spend as a culture, really just like trying to prevent it and what, where that has led us and what that does, and sort of just your own personal ethos around aging.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, yeah, it ties into beauty so much. But we had not, you know, beauty and being, isn't some goal to like stop age, you know, crashing against the rocks of time. We've got to just sort of soften that. We're definitely in a culture that is like obsessed with. Teenage maturity or like that might make something where it's just freezes it there.

Right. And now we're in an era of like, you know, teens getting Botox and stuff. So, you know, obviously, I think about it, but again, to me, like beauty is a feeling it's not like necessarily quality. It's a communion and it's a relationship. So we start with that premise and like, how do we feel?

And we also know, I mean, we can think of many examples in our life where there isn't somebody that's like maybe, you know, not like a supermodel, but wow. They're so beautiful. So we all know that that isn't beauty, but that's what we're marketed to. So there's sort of that to undo. And then just our whole self-esteem as a nation. You know, obviously, I'm speaking a little bit more to women, but there's a lot going on there.

And so if we can get underneath that, all of that, and also aging to me, it's about the body being healthy. And then through that, the glow and the beauty is going to come out, but there's like in functional medicine, they talk a lot about inflammation. And so it's a lot about the inflammation that's aging, really, and we don't have to live in an inflamed state and so much of what we do in the name of beauty enflames, you know what we're putting on our skin daily.

And so I just think through, you know, we want to eliminate, but you know, even as I talk about, you know, this and that chemical, isn't good, but it's not like we're in an era where, sorry, no, even having fun with all your cosmetics and stuff, but it's like, we've got so many options now and it may seem like you're going through a narrowing, but when you go through that portal, there's like a whole meadow.

There's a whole banquet of beauty and beautiful things to work with an anoint and ablutions for your body that's really fun. And then with that aging, we've just got to keep not getting out of the way, getting out of the way of our body's systems and allowing the body to rejuvenate itself. That's what we got to explore things like meditation or tapping into the elements because it isn't another bottle of vitamin quite frankly, or a cream that's going to revive the spirit and the cells.

And that's what we need to think about first before the cream. What's your relationship to the elements, to the cosmos.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So, and once you go into that meadow, you're speaking about you don't go back and it's not because you're disciplined or holding yourself back it's because you've discovered this world, like, you know, like you were saying about the food you eat. Like once you go there, it's not a holding back or restraining yourself. It's like, no, this is it. This is where I am.

Nadine Artemis: [:

I want every morsel account and to tastes good on my tongue. But to me, the journey of food isn't just the experience in the mouth. Like, how am I feeling an hour after I eat? How am I feeling the next day?

How is it leaving my body? That's the whole meal. So it's sort of that 24-hour cycle. Although some people don't clear out the meals for like 72 hours, but there's a thing, right? Maybe that's not the right food.

Mary Kingsley: [:

What aging symptoms would you say that are maligned by our culture that are actually symptoms of a health problem that we do need to address?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, you know, I don't think melasma or hyperpigmentation is an issue. However, I think it's speaking to the quality of the melanocyte layer, which is like the fourth layer down in that there's the top layer of the skin, the top layer of the epidermis. And it's the stratum corneum is the top. And then the basal layers of the bottom that we've got the melanocyte layer.

But anyway, that layer is so thin, but it can give you signs, right. Or, you know, a mole is not a problem, but it can eventually be. So you want to know those kinds of things, but things like any outbreak on the skin, like, I mean, I could, an eczema are psoriasis or rosacea. Those are just telling you have other underlying things.

So I think anything that's coming up with the skin is just, it's not necessarily with aging, but it can give you clues to other things going on in your skin, like with digestion or that kind of thing. But basically, you want to keep your blood sugar at an optimal level because to me like blood sugar being high, and we're like a nation of high blood sugar, that is the beginning of inflammation and aging systems and glycation.

So really we want to look at things that take care of the mitochondria, which is inside the cell. It's a very key part of the cell. And so I talk about it actually in the breast health chapter, when we want to think of things like mitochondrial medicine because if we take care of the mitochondria, we take care of everything.

And so like even there's been a study in the past year that shows if you take healthy mitochondria and you put it in a Petri dish with cancer cells, those cancer cells will not proliferate. If you put unhealthy mitochondria in a Petri dish with cancer, it will proliferate. So we think of the cell proliferation of the cancer, but really it's a secondary symptom.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Oh, wow.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Right. Cause we, you know, even when we think we've got to the root cause sometimes it's like, you got to go deeper and deeper. So when you're using like, you know, pure products, like whole jojoba and essential oils and all of oil and all that good stuff to take care of your skin, you're taking care of the mitochondria.

You're literally like the monoterpenes that are in all essential oils, literally help the body and the systems like the limaline that's in citrus oils literally shows to help prevent breast cancer. There's a more scientific explanation in my book. So things like sandalwood, frankincense there's studies that show that it stops cells from going down a malignant pathway and helps to reorganize abnormal cells.

You know, it's not just like getting moisture on the skin and like trying it it's like what we're putting on our skin. It can harm us. It could be kind of a neutral. Or I can be like a whole part of the whole fun of it and the whole health of it. And I think that's really key.

Mary Kingsley: [:

That's so inspiring. And you mentioned the blood sugar, and I wonder if you just touch on that just a little bit, because I've recently learned that that's the key to so many things. And people think that you know, you go to the doctor once a year and they prick you and they tell you that you are either normal or not, but there's so much in there.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Oh yeah, you should get the number because then normal range, it gets raised. Uh, Dr. Perlmutter has some good books that are great for exploring that.

And I felt like since I've really balanced my blood sugar too, which has been for years, it's such an even keel experience and you're just directed through hunger and not through cravings.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Are there any of your products that you feel like are particularly blood sugar-stabilizing or is it just overall?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah, it's overall it's, you know, it's just cause they're good for health. I mean, cinnamon is said to help, but that's really about what you're putting in. You're like, that's literally food.

Emma Kingsley: [:

So Nadine, just going back a little bit, I know that you've mentioned many products that you use, but what are some of the products that you're most proud of, of creating, because you really have like birthed these things into the world.

And so what are some of the ones that you're like really proud of?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, I love the ones you mentioned. Those are some real classics, like the Poetic Pits. They're so unique. And really they're sort of, I mean, they're just as juicy and exquisite as like a perfume or cologne, like you've got really fine, fine things in there that are so concentrated.

And then the Happy Gum Drops and the whole oral care line. Cause that was, it's just so revolutionary. There is more skincare companies slowly coming into the oral care realm, especially since we've had the quarantine year. And it's like, so all these are coming at, like treat your mouth more like a spa.

And it's like, wow, we were doing that decade. And it's just so revolutionary because, you know, it just helps so many people. And so I love our oral care line and then, you know, the Best Skin Ever's, have also been pretty revolutionary because people aren't washing their face with soap anymore, which can really, those foaming cleansers can really start a vicious cycle.

And just to see people like, you know, after decades of cystic acne or women saying, oh my god I don't wanna have to wear a foundation when I leave the house, I feel more confident, you know, so many emails about confidence is just, I love that.

Mary Kingsley: [:

So, Nadine, what does The Good Dirt mean to you?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, to me, that's like the whole microbiome.

Yeah. And like the good dirt, the healthy dirt, the topsoil that we need. And I feel like the topsoil is a good metaphor for the microbiome in our body because our microbiome is like our soil and we need healthy soil with diverse microbes in it, you know, like in our guts and that kind of thing. And that's what our soil needs now as well.

So to me, the good dirt is about, yeah, good dirt. Like getting your hands in the garden. You know, like all that stuff.

Mary Kingsley: [:

And these processed foods and the chemicals and all of the products and all that kind of thing actually are harmful to the good dirt of our body.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Yeah. Like for me, when my little guy was little it's like, if something dropped on an airport floor or something, oh my god, right? Like that needs to be sterilized. Drop it on our beach or in the garden or on the dirt, just who cares. Or if Leif picked up a rock and like, you know, sucked on it or something, it's like, great. That's the good dirt.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience? Or is there anything that you would most want listeners to understand about the work that you do?

Nadine Artemis: [:

Well, I feel like if you're learning this or it's all new, or you're thinking oh my god, the deodorant and the aluminum and the soap... just know that it can be easy and it can be fun. And it's, you know, I'm not here to give information that makes you feel more constricted it in your body, but hopefully, you know, information and knowledge that can really like expand your relationship with yourself and to the world.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Well, and let's hear you say where people can find you and how they can engage with Living Libations and all those good things.

Nadine Artemis: [:

For sure. Well, we've got livinglibations.com and yeah, seriously, like you can email us any question. We hopefully will send you in the right direction or we'll know something and dental, skin, beauty health.

And then we also do consults that are just free with Joy or Tina. They're both so lovely. And so many people, I mean, who knew that was going to be such a fun activity for quarantining, even though, I mean, we've been doing it for years, but we had like whole families go on calls or like mothers and daughters or best friends, bridal parties. It's just been so much fun.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Oh, that's so fun.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Oh my gosh. Thank you for telling us about that.

Emma Kingsley: [:

So thank you so much for joining us today, Nadine.

Mary Kingsley: [:

We really loved talking to you and have been wanting to talk to you for a while and today my wish came true. So thank you so much.

Nadine Artemis: [:

My pleasure. Thank you. Bye.

Mary Kingsley: [:

That was so inspiring, Nadine. Oh, we appreciate your being here with us today so much. And as a little follow-up, I wanted to tell what happened with the gum drops and the mouthwash, as it turns out, my husband did use the gumdrops in place of the large bottle of mouthwash in the plastic container that he's used for so many years. And he liked it a lot. So we've now transitioned to that. So that's a great step in the right direction.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Wow. That's fun. I hadn't heard that yet.

Mary Kingsley: [:

Yeah. So thank you, Living Libations. We've so enjoyed your products. We so enjoyed getting to know Nadine and listening to her story and talking to her today.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Yes. And if this is your first time here, Welcome. We are Lady Farmer. You can find us online at ladyfarmer.com or on Instagram @weareladyfarmer. We have new episodes every Friday and we will see you next week.

Nadine Artemis: [:

Bye everybody.

Emma Kingsley: [:

Goodbye.

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