Garry Ridge is the former CEO of WD-40 and the co-author of Any Dumb-Ass Can Do It, a book about building high-performance cultures through servant leadership, emotional safety, and consistent values. In this conversation, Garry shares not just what he learned during his 25+ years at WD-40, but how he lived it—and how other leaders can too.

We talked about what it means to lead with a heart of gold and a backbone of steel, how culture can't be microwaved (spoiler: it's a crockpot), and why being a "dumbass" is actually a leadership superpower.

Garry tells stories about turning fear into learning, eliminating the word "manager," and why clarity around values—especially in a hierarchy—gives everyone the confidence to make the right decision, no matter their title.

We also explore:

• Why psychological safety isn't fluff, it's foundational
• How “the soul-sucking CEO” lives in all of us, and what to do about that
• What happened when Garry went back to school as a CEO
• How WD-40 went global using three simple marketing questions
• Why organizations should replace “failure” with “learning moments”
• The real-world power of love and belonging at work
• The “Maniac Pledge” and how it eliminates finger-pointing
• How even during COVID, WD-40’s engagement scores stayed sky-high

This episode is a warm bath of wisdom, humor, and hope for anyone who wants to lead—at work or in life—with integrity, humility, and heart.

Links

• Garry Ridge's website: thelearningmoment.net
• Take the Dumbass Proficiency Quiz here
• Connect with Garry on LinkedIn
• Join the School of Dumb-Assery on LinkedIn
• Garry’s book: Any Dumb-Ass Can Do It

And the reason I'm interested in this is partly because WD 40 is an extremely cool product. In fact, it played a pretty large role in my childhood in the form of their silicone spray, which I used to spray on the bottom of Frisbees 'cause I did freestyle. And when you spin it and you want to. Spin it on your fingernail when you silicone that thing up.

At first I thought it was kind of. A, uh, performative humility, pejorative saying like, oh, you know, I'm not so great. But it turns out to be an entire philosophy of leadership. And I think if what, what really excited me about having Gary on to talk about his book is that he describes workplaces. It to me in almost spiritual terms, it's, it's, it's about how do we make the world a better place through the work we do, through the things we produce.

I don't know. I don't know if it's a direct translation. I don't know how much the forms would have to change in order for this to be the standard of how we run the world and how we do business. But I do that. Gary's Gary Ridge's heart is. A beating guidepost to a direction that can move us there. So I'm really excited to share this conversation with you.

Without further ado, Gary Ridge, welcome to the Plant Yourself Podcast.

**Garry:** Good day. It's great to be with you. Thank you for inviting me along.

Like only a CA successful CEO of a billion dollar corporation could say that about Tel. But when I read it, I realized that actually the essence of being a dumb ass goes far deeper. That it's actually not a pejorative. Um, it's a, it's a way of, of orienting yourself towards, towards growth. Could you talk a little bit about the, just the, the idea of it being a dumb ass?

So, yeah, I, I purposely, um, I. You know, pick the title because I, I have a theory that I think we've proven that if you understand what the ingredients are and you consistently execute them within an organization, you can build cultures where people know and feel like they belong and know and feel like they matter.

And, um, you know, there's a lot of, of writing about this, but we actually did it and we proved that by doing it, you end up with a high performing organization where people go home happy.

**Howie:** Hmm. So you talked about, so you know, belong and Matter and what, what's the, what's the origin story of those values being important to you?

And fortunately in a position to be able to execute it at the company. And so we. We did that and the things that worked, we turned up the volume on and things that didn't work, we turned down the volume on and, uh, and that's how we, we, we moved. But again, again, you know, it was very clear that, you know, if you, if it goes even back to, to Maslow's hierarchy of self-actualization, you know, the third rung of that is belonging or love.

And, and a lot of organizations don't make people feel like they belong.

**Garry:** No, it was an executive MBA program. It was a two year program.

I. I went to school three days a month. Um, and it, it's a verified, um, master's degree. Mm-hmm. From the University of San Diego.

**Howie:** Gotcha, gotcha. So it wasn't like back to school where ev all everyone else is just young students who haven't done this before?

**Garry:** No. That was one of the benefits of the program. I was in a cohort of about 28 or 30 other.

Um, people, everything from a, a, a, a judge to a minister of religion to executives that have what I would say had miles on the clock.

**Howie:** Hmm. I find that fascinating 'cause I, for, for me, there is a sort of an occupational hazard of whenever I feel like I'm good at something as reflected back to me by the outside world, it gets harder and harder for me to see myself as a dumb ass as.

**Garry:** you know, I, I had, I, I, you know, I had a, a goal. I wanted to confirm what I thought I knew and learned what I didn't know. Uh, and that's why I went back to school and, and a number of things in the program confirmed what I thought were my beliefs, but there were others that I, I, you know, I probably needed the confidence of that academic rigor to, um, to really give me, you know, the platform that I wanted.

And a learning moment is a positive or negative outcome of any situation that needs to be openly and freely shared to benefit all people. Um, so, you know, there were just certain things that we did that I think were important that helped us along the way.

**Howie:** Hmm. See this is, that is the learning moment idea as the way you structurally interested to the organization.

It's so interesting to me 'cause I work with people around. Neurological safety around, you know, so if, when, if no matter what, you know, if it feels unsafe in the moment for your nervous system to say the word, to stand up in the meeting, to take on the project, you're not going to do it. And I, I, I tend to work with people I.

Change, right. They actually, they actually can see that there's a difference between a physical life-threatening attack and words that someone's using that may be uncomfortable.

**Garry:** Yeah. You know, I think we've gotta, it's, we've gotta be, you know, better than I, this is, but, you know, we've gotta be really careful or really de deliberate about words.

It's like the word manager. You know, we, we deleted the word manager from our organization. You know, you, you come to work Dr. Howie this morning, and I say, good morning. Welcome to the company. I'm your manager. Well, I don't want to be managed, so we replace that with coach. In other words, good morning.

That would be taking away your glory. And I, and don't worry about me spending a lot of time in the stinky locker room because that's where I wanna be. I'm gonna get my shoes dirty. I want to be alongside you. I want understand you quite a different mindset than good morning. I'm your manager.

**Howie:** Yeah. And, uh, just the, you know, like the word manage.

It's like, how, how are you doing? I'm managing. That's, yeah, that's not, that's not a really high bar either.

**Garry:** No. You know, and one of the dictionaries I looked up manage the definition of manager was, uh, manipulator. I.

**Howie:** Hmm. Uhhuh. Wow. So, so the, you talk a lot in the book about, um, the coaching habit by, by our, our friend Michael Bunge Stanier.

**Garry:** Well, I think firstly the, the, the transition is really describing why we're here.

You know, I often used to say to my leadership team, be under no miss and understanding. The only reason we exist here is to help those, we have the privilege to lead, play their best game. And to do that, we have to be coaches. So I think again, it's really about how do you frame and in and, and reinforce the purpose of the leadership.

And you know, I often said imagine a place where you go to work every day. You make a. Contribution to something bigger than yourself. So there's a purpose. You are protected and set free by a compelling set of values. Now, a lot of people think values in the organization, in the organizations are restrictive.

And whose fault is that? That's the fault of leadership. Because we create these toxic cultures where people don't know, don't feel, and, and, and know they belong, don't feel and know they matter. There's no, uh, defining purpose in the organization, and there's no values to protect them and set them free.

And this, and it's not a learning mindset, it's a fear mindset. So this is, that's why it's, this is simple. It's not easy, and time is not your friend.

**Howie:** Why do you say that?

Culture is not a micro waveable event. It takes a crockpot approach. And it's so true and a lot of leaders think that, you know, that one training program that you do, uh, is gonna change the culture. It's not, you've gotta put the foundations in place. And if you put the foundations in place and you, and you execute against those foundations consistently, you will build and have a strong culture in the organization That.

Again, if there's more people going to work every day engaged, your, the chances of a, a better outcome are much higher than if there's a, a, a smaller number of people going to work every day and engaged.

**Howie:** Mm-hmm. So one of the things that really struck me and your narrative is describing the process of identifying the values.

Um, so I'd lo I'd love for you to talk about speci, you know, all of that spec specifically. The thing I, I don't quite understand for myself is how, how the higher, how you hierarchical, how, how you create hierarchy of value that leads to clarity as opposed to just having like, these are our six or seven core values.

Good day. You are going to be a hero today. I've got something to share with you right now. And when you run to your CEO's office, you're gonna get a promotion. And how he says, tell me more. So, well, I've looked at your formulation and there's an ingredient that you use and we have an ingredient that, uh, can replace the one you use.

And it's. Tested efficacy is equal to, or maybe, you know, may even be better than what you are using. But here's the exciting thing I've done the math and um, if you were to use our ingredient, you could probably drop three to $4 million to your bottom line. And you know, that's pretty significant money.

And you know, you're a public company. Your shareholders are gonna love you for this. You know, that's a decision you should make and how you say Sure. You know, tell me more. He said, well, there's just one other thing, you know? Um, and don't worry about it because you know, it's not something that other people don't do.

You're not breaking the law. He said, yeah, I know. But we make decisions here based on values, and they're hierarchal. And our first value is we value doing the right thing. And our second value is we value creating positive, lasting memories in all our relationships. Our number six value is we value sustaining the WD 40 Economy, which is about profit, you know, maintaining profitability and the financial health of the company, and.

Let me go and talk to your CEO. And Howie says you can talk to anyone you like in the organization. I have the authority to make this decision because hierarchically. We use our values to protect us and set us free. So how do you feel as the person being able to make that decision? Number one, you couldn't cherry pick the value.

If they weren't hierarchical, you could say, I'm gonna make this decision 'cause it meets one of our values. Mm-hmm. But. But because it's hierarchical, the things that are most important happen first. So that's, that's the power. And I have to thank, you know, my mentor, Dr. Ken Blanchard, for really, you know, showing me and the co organization the power of these forced ranked values so people can't cherry pick which, which value to use to make a decision.

**Garry:** Well, yeah. You know, if, if it's very clear and it's, and it's, you know, communicated in the organization that this is how we make decisions, then most people fall in line with that. You know, one of the things we did, which was really powerful is as part of our coaching process, we used to formally meet with our tribe members.

Individually at at, at a minimum every 90 days. And talk about how are they progressing around, you know, achieving their A, because we said we we're not here to mark your paper, we're here to help you get A's. And then we'd ask them to share with us how they've lived our values in the last 90 days. So give us real live examples.

**Howie:** And, and so that's, that's you and the leadership team or the head, the head coaches, um, ba basically be being dependable and trustworthy. Around this is, this is important no matter what. This isn't just fluff when the economy's great, but this, this is something that's, that's core.

**Garry:** Yeah. And you know, we, it would not be unusual and, and it, it was common practice when we would be sitting down discussing just about anything to say, well, you know, we need to run this through our values just as a, as a. Gut check to see that we're, you're heading in the right direction here, which, and my goal was I wanted anyone in the organization, anywhere in the world, anytime of the day to be able to make any decision they needed to make without quacking up the hierarchy.

**Garry:** Absolutely they do. Yeah. So, you know, we wanna, the, the best information is closer to the action, so we want to get close to the action. Alright,

**Howie:** so one thing I I, I noticed while reading the book is that I have, so I've been working in sort of corporate consulting for, you know, quarter century now. I've become in your to a lot of jargon.

How did, where, where did that word come from?

**Garry:** Well, you know, I, again, you know, I think a lot of consultants camouflage issue with confusion to make out how smart they are. And let's be real, you know, we are actually talking to real people in real time, so let's not over complicate things. Let's make it simple for people to understand.

Let's use like, let's use words. It's like psychological safety. You have to think about that. What does that really mean? It means that I feel safe and I belong. So, so describe it like that. So, you know, I'm grateful for the, those out there that have, you know, highlighted the need to have organizations that, you know, really do treasure and, and, and.

**Howie:** And, you know, this idea of belonging. I think, you know, especially after covid, after the, the disruptions we've had around the, the, the political disruptions that are going on right now, I think it's almost, it's almost like a thing, at least in the states that, that I, people don't realize they have been missing.

I've noticed it since moving to Europe that because it's very, it's very, very different. What, what do you have stories about people who come to WD 40 and are just kind of like shocked and awed by what it feels like to actually belong at work?

**Garry:** Yeah, you know, I, one of the, when I was in my full-time role there, I would often go to people that had been with the company for, you know, 60 or 90 days and I'd say, did we lie to you?

But you know, we entered Covid with a very, very high engagement score that we'd had for many years. You know, 98% of our people said they loved to tell people they worked at the company. My goodness, 97% of people said they trusted their coach. Now, you know, their coach was their manager. Most people leave organizations because they.

And 97% of our people globally said that. And I said, how can they feel that way when we are going through this? And, um, so we went back and checked the data and it was true. So we asked the question why, and they said, basically, I feel safe. We are living our promise of, um, you know, a group of people that come together and protect each other.

**Howie:** Hmm. And what I'm, and I'm also connecting it to the flip side of you talk about later in the book, say the accountability in what you call the maniac pledge, that you can't ask that of people until. You demonstrated from the top during tough times, during right. To, to, to, to be, to, to lead the dance so that employees can reciprocate and say, I'm, I'm taking full responsibility for my work.

I'm not coming in here needy or as a victim.

Um, and we talked about it a lot. So, um, that's another, another pla another piece of the foundation.

**Howie:** Right. And just to give folks who are listening to context of the, the first phrase of the Maniac pledge is, I am responsible for taking actions, getting answers, and making decisions. Dot, dot, dot. Then there's a, there's more.

**Garry:** Yeah. Yeah. I won't wait for someone to tell me if I need to know. I'm responsible for asking. I have no right to be offended that I didn't get this sooner. And if I'm doing something others should know about, I'm responsible for telling them.

**Howie:** All right, so, so one, one of the quotes I took out and put in my quote board is our first accountability partner is the face in the mirror.

Allow you to grow yourself as, as an even more intimate accountability partner.

**Garry:** Yeah, I think, you know, I agree with you. You know, I, I think that in the coaching work that I do, the first process is awareness. You know, are we aware of the behaviors that we're using and are those behaviors creating positive or, or toxic cultures?

**Howie:** Alec, okay.

**Garry:** Yeah. This is the soul sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated, and I created Alec, or it could be Alice, to be able to talk about the behaviors that really create toxic cultures.

And you know, this person has an e, an ego that eats their empathy instead of their empathy. Eating an ego. They're a micromanager. They think their corporate royalty. They want a fear-based culture. They're a master of control. They want to control everything. They know it all. They have all the answers, even the wrong ones, they don't value learning.

They must always be right. They hate feedback and they do not keep their commitments. But if and so, but if you're in an organization where. Servant leadership and, you know, you're practicing the, the, the behaviors that create belonging. You know, the leader loves and involves their people. They're always in servant leadership mode.

They do what they say they do and they treasure the gift of feedback. So there's the, you know, the comparison between toxic leadership behaviors and positive leadership behaviors.

**Howie:** Hmm. Have you had experience with people coming in to WD 40 who may have been hired because of their brilliance or their market knowledge, or their connections who had to be reformed, who had to kind of.

**Garry:** Yeah. To

**Howie:** Sam or Susan

**Garry:** Ho hopefully they didn't get into the, to the organization.

Um, you know, we, we, you know, if you were to go to our careers page, the first thing that hits you is these are our values. And we talk about how important our values are in the organization. And we quite open and frankly say if. If you can't align with these, don't call us. So, and if someone actually gets in under the fence and isn't, is not aligned with our values, you know, they kind of get voted off the island pretty quickly.

**Howie:** Hmm. So what? But still, uh, still I'm gonna push a little bit that all, I think all of us have, you know, the, the Susan and the Alec within us.

**Garry:** Yeah, I did. I, I actually probably had many of those at a, at a high degree of competency until I, you know, the first class that I did at, in my master's degree was a class that really focused on who are you as a leader?

And the reason I do that is because, you know, we are just these basic human beings bumbling our way down this pathway of life and circumstances, and, and individuals pull us off the path and, you know, they could be the circumstance of greed or envy or whatever. And unless we realize that that's happening and get back on the path, we're never gonna get to our destination.

So I think it's important to be aware of that and, and I often say, you know, don't take your leftovers to people. You know, you have to take a moment to recenter yourself. I could be in a meeting or a, you know, some sort of interaction with you and, um. You know, what happens if, if I leave that and I go to my next meeting and I'm only taking half myself to the next meeting, I need to refill my plate of who I want to be.

That once, you know, once you're aware of how you are, it's your responsibility to meet other people's needs rather than have them meet your need for, for

**Garry:** brevity and con conciseness. Absolutely. I mean, you can't, you can't change anybody else. You can only change yourself. So if our role is to bring out the best in others, then we've gotta be aware of who we are and what we need to do to help others be, you know, the, just others step into the best version of their personal self and not get in their way.

You're always, you're aware that there's enemies out there. How do you, how do you see the, the dynamic between safety and al, I don't wanna call it paranoia, but it's sort of a. It's a little bit of, you know, sort of like being aware that there are threats.

**Garry:** Well, you know, I think that, um, I, I don't see that the alarm bell is a, is something that is counter to safety.

So I think that, you know, again, you have to, you can't blindly wander down this road of business and not listen for the alarm bells. But the important thing is, is to identify them and, and then work, really work out whether they are a threat or not. And some alarm bells may not be a threat. You know, one of the things that we.

We're suffering from, and it's, it's at a high degree right now, is as human beings, we, we have a high degree of discomfort with uncertainty. You know, and uncertainty is a series of future events that may or may not occur. And, you know, how can we identify the possibilities of things happening and not happening?

**Howie:** Hmm. Yeah, I was finishing the book this morning, and then I, I, I checked the news and there was an article about a Wall Street analyst who, you know, right, right now is to, to place us in historical time.

Basically, the, the, the people who are bullish, who are wrong. Uh, don't get punished. They don't, they keep their jobs, they get promoted. And, and so, so again, I'm coming back to like this foundation of safety and learning moments and no such thing as failure. I'm wondering if that makes it easier for people to say, Hey, I'm worried about this e and even if it's a false alarm, like you said, like the story in the hotel, it was a false alarm.

Someone left their backpack. Yeah. But you say they correctly evacuated this entire luxury hotel because that was the right thing to do. And

Of the Atlas Space Rocket and the chemists got together and started to mix up formulas to see if they could solve the problem. And Formula One didn't work and 15 didn't work and 25 didn't work, and 35 didn't work. And there were 39 learning moments on each learning moment was a contributor to the next formulation.

**Howie:** Hmm. And to me, that's sort of like an encapsulation of the entire coaching process.

Yeah, like, you know, like your gift of simplification is, is growing stronger and stronger. You know, um, what, what did, or what did or didn't happen? What did or didn't work? What do you learn from it and what next?

**Garry:** Right. You know, and, and that's exactly what we did. You know, we said, if you have a positive learning moment, amplify it so people can take advantage of your learning.

If you have a negative learning moment, amplify it. So if someone is trying to solve the same problem or do the same thing that they can benefit from. The, the advanced learning you had.

**Howie:** Mm-hmm. Right. So you, you give a great example of learning when you, uh, first entered the Chinese market and you went to a trade fair.

**Garry:** Yeah, it's a wonderful story. So, uh, it was, you know, way back when and I was at a trade show in Beijing and I, we, we have a small sample of WD 40, um, that really is the backbone of, of the marketing program.

And we give the samples away. And basically it's, here's my product piece. Try it. If you like it, please buy it. And the Chinese word for sample. All is Y Ping and the Chinese word for lubricant is Lenoir. So I'm on this trade show giving away these samples, and nobody is really interested in my sample of WD 40.

It was about the right size that apparently the, the guys and girls that were picking it up would use to go to the store to, you know, buy their rice or whatever they bought. And it made me think about the fact that, well, why don't they want my lubricant? So I went back to the stand and I, you know, had a conversation with my Chinese.

Counterparts and partners there, and I said, we've gotta find out why they, why they don't want our product. So we did some interceptions straight away, and what we learned pretty quickly is they didn't need lubricant. They had dirty diesel oil to do their job, but what was concerning to them was rust and corrosion.

So, you know, we could have walked away from there saying, there's no market. But the, the real, you know, the real. Gold in that is, do you know your end users' needs and have you bothered to find out what they are?

**Howie:** Uh, that's a fantastic story. And you, you also have a, um, a three questions that you asked about entering new markets.

'cause Right, you were, you were brought on to expand WD 40 when I, when I was, you know, a kid or in high school, like everybody in the US knew WD 40, but you were. Test with bringing it internationally and did these three questions, and I, I've been in marketing and sales for a long time, but this is so much more concise and useful.

You say, do you need me? Do you know me? Can you buy me? Correct, and I ran that through everything I know about sales and marketing and it doesn't really leave anything out.

I could have gone into into China, and because the product was known as a lubricant in another country, assumed that the end users there were going to think the same way. So I could have invested millions of dollars in selling this lubricant, and I would've not. Being successful. So do you need me? Uh, do you know me?

Is, you know, how do I, how do I now make you aware of the product that I have in a cost effective way? And then can you buy me? Is there is the distribution channels of, are they available and are they free flowing to be able to get my product to the end user in the most cost effective way? So it's very simple.

Do you need me? Do you know me? Can you buy me?

Asking your market, and you're not coming in, you know, flaunting your own, um, assumptions. But like for me, the core of the book was like, this is almost like you're on a secret mission from the Dalai Lama to see if what he does could work in a, in a business organization. That, that as, as the book continues, and as you ref you talk about refining your own mission, you end up talking, you know.

Handing this, the megaphone to, uh, Alan Mulally. And all he's talking about is love loving and being loved. And it feels like that's where you've come to in like, this is what business is all about. Can you, can you talk about that? 'cause that's, that's kind of revolutionary. I.

Well, it's not about that at all. You know, I have a dear friend, his name was Ron Carus. He wrote a great book called, to Be Honest, and, and he, he makes a quote that I really love, he says. Most people protect their own comfort zone at the expense of other people's development.

**Howie:** And

**Garry:** you know, I, again, leadership is a harder goal, a backbone of steel, a balance between being tough minded and tender-hearted.

So, you know, you, you create this organization where you do. Have a deep care for your people, a deep love for your people because you want them to be successful human beings. And to do that, you know, your job is to, um, bring the best you can to the table for them to help them do that. So, um. And, and if you do that, people appreciate you and they appreciate the company.

So, you know, if we take some principles like that and apply 'em in business, it can work. And again, that doesn't mean that, you know, you don't have to make tough decisions because sometimes you do.

**Howie:** Mm-hmm. Well, you had, um, sort of four questions that you say that employees ask themselves to kind of assess if their own job is giving them pleasure.

Let people down because there's not clarity around what does an A look like and that, and when there's no clarity around expectations, having that redirection conversation becomes very, very difficult. And that's where the leader or the coach tends to protect their own comfort zone instead of having the conversation.

**Howie:** Hmm. And my, my first ex exposure to the corporate development world was with a, a New York City investment bank during like the late nineties when, you know, everything was great, everything was flush.

And they, they had, you know, investment banking at that point had the, the pick of the, the, the cream of the crop of academia. And these young people were coming in and. There was tremendous problems with accountability, with clarity of expectations with their managers. And one of the things we realized is that the best students had had it drilled into them that you don't ask what's on the test because that's brown nosing.

**Garry:** Yeah, well this whole thing about, you know, don't mark my paper. Help me get an A. You know, when Ken was a university professor, he used to give out the final test paper at the beginning of the class

**Howie:** and

**Garry:** you know, the administration and the academics would say, what the hell are you doing, Blanchard? Giving out the final paper.

He said, well, because what I'm gonna do for the next three semesters is help 'em learn the answers. Because my job here is not to mark their paper. It's here to help them learn the answers or help 'em get an A. And how true is that? I mean, well, why not? I.

Right, right. All right. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm curious, you've, you've, uh, you're three years away, I think, from, from being the CEO you're now emeritus. Um, you've written this book, you're, you, you, your, your last chapter or is, or epilogue is, uh, the not, you know, the beauty of the void and how to fill it with, uh, with, with gold.

What, what are you up to these days? Um, that's new and exciting.

**Garry:** Well, my, I have a very clear purpose. I help leaders build cultures of belonging where love, forgiveness and learning inspire a happier, more connected world. And I do that through my coaching. I coach CEOs. I have, I think, six or seven that I coach right now.

And I'm hoping that, you know, those leaders that pick up this book will say, you know what? Any dumb ass can do this. I'm gonna have a, have a, have a go at building this great, a great culture. I, this, this book will give me some of the ingredients I need and the confidence to go do it because we did it. I mean, you know, as you know, I, I, Simon Senex a good friend of mine and, and you know, I love his work and he says, you know, he shouldn't have a job.

Or you, you are doing what we preach. So you are proving that it can work and it does work.

**Howie:** Mm-hmm. So, I, I wanna ask one more question that, um. I'm not, I'm not sure it's entirely respectful. It's, it's, it's, it's, um, it's coming from a place of like me really wanting to understand and believe and, and it's so you can, we can create wonderful cultures and yet businesses go out in the world and do things.

Like do, like, are there responsibilities for business beyond even shareholders, customers, vendors, like just to the planet, to the bigger world.

**Garry:** Yeah. One of our values was we value creating positive, lasting memories in all of our relationships, and, and that helped us reflect on the PA fact that those relationships are with our customers, our end users, the environment that we're given the permission to operate in.

You know, somewhere within a few miles of us right now, you and I, and we're both in two different continents now. There's a group of people who are gonna spend their day trying to hack money out of our bank accounts.

**Howie:** Hmm.

**Garry:** You know, I, I, I just, you know, to me that's why would you, and, and they all know what they're doing.

But you know, the world is not full of, you know, the people who wanna always do the right thing. So all I can say is if you're leading a company and uh, you and people matter to you, you can make a difference in their lives, um, by doing a couple of simple things. And that's basically. Showing them and treating them like they belong, showing them and treating, like treating them like they matter.

Take reducing fear by enhancing learning, being a coach, not a manager, and having a set of values that helps set them free.

Where else can people find your thoughts and your work and, and maybe reach out to you if they, uh, are in need of some coaching?

**Garry:** Yeah. Well, there's a couple of things. Um, if people want to go to my website, www the learning moment.net, there is actually a dumb ass proficiency quiz. You can take a quiz. And you can see what your level of dumb mastery is.

Uh, and after you take the quiz, um, I'll send you a playbook of four things you can start doing in your organization straight away. So go take the quiz at www the learning moment.net and then, uh, follow me if you choose on LinkedIn. Uh, I actually have the school of dumb ery on LinkedIn, which is a, uh. A group that, um, we're formed, we formed where people are, are starting to share their dumb mastery lessons.

**Howie:** Fantastic. Gary Ridge, thank you so much for, for waking up so early for this conversation. So it's still, it's rare that I do an interview where it's daylight in Barcelona with a, with someone in America. I I appreciate that and thank you for writing this Beautiful.

So useful book and for, for showing that, you know, the things that we read that seem that they might be too good to be true are actually right on the money. So thank, thank you for that. And thank you for all the work you are doing and have done to make this a more loving, safe, and connected world.

**Garry:** I appreciate the opportunity and thank you for helping us amplify the need because, uh, you know.

Life's a gift. We don't wanna send it back. Unwrapped.

Well, one field of grass, two fields of artificial turf, but still being able to wear cleats and turn and not have sand, uh, go under my feet as I kind of run in place and dig my way down towards the center of the earth felt really good. Uh, in fact, a couple of the games were. Uh, live streamed on Twitch and YouTube, and I'm going to put the links in the show notes.

Um, I am the one without the uniform, so on my team, Bravos, we're either wearing yellow. Or green. And my shirts are either, uh, like the yellow is actually kind of green screen, and the green is a different color, so you'll be able to see me. I'm wearing a yellow cap, and, and I, and I run like I should be, uh, using crutches.

I. In the trainings and I'm gonna add a couple of runs a week, getting back into some light running. That's about it for me. Um, got some great episodes in the can. I got two more in the can, so, uh, I can, without having to predict, I can say you're really gonna enjoy these next couple of conversations and I look forward to seeing you back here.

Not really seeing you, but you know, it's a polite figure of speech anyway, as always be well my friends.