In this episode, Hannah and Amy sit down with Jody LaVoie, who became a grief coach after the most unimaginable of circumstances, the murder of her husband Steve eleven years ago. What began as survival mode, taking over her husband's business, raising three young daughters alone, became, over time, a profound journey of self-discovery, resilience, and a new, deeper understanding of what happiness actually means.

Jody shared with us honesty about the non-linear messiness of grief, about the guilt of laughing too soon, about learning to trust yourself when there's no one to make decisions with, and about the slow, surprising ways that loss can add meaning to a life rather than only taking from it. This is one of the most important conversations we've had on the show, and it's worth listening to even if you haven't experienced loss like this, because as Jody says, grief isn't only about death. It's about any major life transition that changes who you are.

We dig into the stages of grief and why the model is so often misunderstood. We talk about what people say to grieving people that actually doesn't help and what does. Jody talks her job as a grief coach and how she walks beside someone in their grief rather than taking it on, and about the moment she realized that helping other widows find their path forward was where her joy lived.

In this episode: the non-linear nature of grief, the guilt of joy, what grieving people actually need from the people around them, how to find your people, the unexpected gifts of loss, grief as any major life transition, present-moment happiness, and the courage it takes to keep going.

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE

Jodie LaVoie works one-on-one with widows virtually to help them find their new path forward and rediscover their identity. She also offers corporate grief workshops to help employees and managers better support each other through major life transitions. If you're a widow, or know someone who is, Jody welcomes inquiries and consultations.

Jody's Guide to Joy & blog posts can be found here: Free Resources | Widows in the Workplace

The five (and six) stages of grief: Originally developed by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross. A sixth stage, finding meaning, was later added by David Kessler. As Jody emphasizes, these stages are not linear, not sequential, and not a checklist. You can experience multiple stages in the same hour.

"American Pie" by Don McLean: Steve's song. Listen here.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

It's OK That You're Not OK by Megan Devine: The book that doesn't try to fix grief or rush you through it. Deeply aligned with Jody's message that grieving people want to be heard, not fixed.

Option B by Sheryl Sandberg & Adam Grant: About resilience and building a meaningful life after loss. Accessible and honest.

The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion: The classic memoir on grief. Raw, literary, and unlike anything else on the subject.

What's Your Grief: One of the best grief education resources online. Articles, courses, and tools for people navigating loss of all kinds.

Modern Loss: Essays and community around grief. Human, candid, and decidedly non-clinical.

Open to Hope: A nonprofit resource for people coping with loss, founded by grief professionals.

Reach out to us! Email us at icanbehappier@gmail.com or visit icanbehappier.com. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health support. Please reach out to a qualified licensed provider if you need help.

As an Amazon affiliate, we get a small percentage of the sale of any books you purchase through our links. It's an easy way to support us! Thank you!

Hi, everyone.

Today on, I think I can be happier.

We're talking with Jody LaVoie, who became a grief coach after

the death of her husband.

This is a really important conversation to listen to, even if you haven't

experienced a loss like this, because as you'll hear Jody share, humans are

incredibly resilient and it is possible to find meaning and joy, even when life

is incredibly challenging and feels like those things would never be possible.

And before we get to that, make sure you subscribe for automatic downloads

on your favorite podcast app so you can get our episodes right when they drop.

Hi, Jody.

Hello, Hannah and Amy.

Hi, Jody.

Welcome.

you.

I'm happy to be here.

Yeah.

Thanks for joining us.

Will you introduce yourself?

I'm Jody LaVoie.

I live outside of Chicago.

I am an ex-big business person.

I now run a small business.

I'm a mother of three adult w- girls, and I am also a widow.

And that's one of the reasons why we wanna have you on today, uh,

in our podcast about happiness.

You might not associate happiness with grief.

I mean, those are two sort of things that I feel like are opposing concepts

if you don't think about it more deeply than just a surface level.

And so I thought it would be really important to talk about,

I, I'm so glad you are, because it's a struggle for many people that are grieving

and/or having big life transitions, 'cause

that grief process can be so heavy.

But it is possible to be happy at the same time too,

So could you start... I mean, if you're, you know, sh- I know you will absolutely

share whatever you are most comfortable sharing, but, um, can you just take us

back to maybe who you were before, uh, before the big thing happened in your life

that sort of shifted everything for you?

Who were you?

What were you doing?

for sure.

And I I was absolutely happy, and I think we'll get into how happy looks different

today, but I was a happy stay-at-home mom.

Uh, my daughters were nine, 12, and 15 at the time.

I kind of was a bit of a helicopter mom and, um, a l- pretty involved in the

day-to-day of my kids, and I loved it.

I loved it.

I was the volunteer at school.

I drove the carpools, cooked lovely family dinners, took care

of things around the house, and it was extremely fulfilling for me.

And then a big life event happened, and this was 11 years ago now,

Hannah and Amy, and it's, it's really weird how fast time goes.

11 years ago, I got a knock on my door that, uh, was not one I ever anticipated

receiving, and it changed my life forever.

I had a police officer come and, uh, informed me that my husband

had been gravely injured at work.

This was a bright, lovely summer day, and a couple of my kids were home

and, and he wouldn't tell me what happened, like how was he injured?

And so he wouldn't tell me.

He gave me the number of another police officer I was to call.

I did.

That person didn't tell me either.

They just said, "Get downtown." Um, and then my phone rang, and the

press asked, and they said, "Your husband has been shot at work.

Care to comment?" Like, that's what they said.

That's how I learned, and I guess I say learned question mark because it, it cert-

the weight and enormity of that did not register at that moment, um, and frankly,

took quite a long time to register.

Yeah.

he was shot at work by an employee that he had demoted a few days

earlier, who then brought a gun to work and killed my husband on

the spot and then killed himself.

And wow, I mean, th- that, things like that don't happen in my neighborhood,

in my community, to any of my friends.

Um, so it really was challenging in a, I don't have anybody really to talk

about this specific kind of experience.

However, I found people.

I have homicide friends.

Um, one, people that you don't ever anticipate finding, but, but when we

all need that certain space of people who get you, you know, we go and search,

and I found some, so that was helpful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, my family's l- helped me, like, going out with my homicide friends

or going out with my widow friends.

They're like, "You th- I think you need a better name for that." It's a little

I know.

I, like, feel a

little guilty laughing.

No, no, I, I laugh too.

It's the widows.

Um, and you know, when you can laugh at some of those things and you get

to a place of where you can, I... That is a moment in transition time

Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah,

I mean, now with your 11 years of wisdom and experience, when you look

back on that moment- How did your understanding of happiness change?

I mean, 'cause that was... I can't believe, first of all, I can't

believe the press is, the press is

how you found out.

And then in that moment, I mean, everything, your world shifted

Completely.

And, and frankly, I, I certainly, when that happened, wasn't

thinking about happiness, wasn't thinking about many feelings.

I was just focused on, what do I have to do at this moment for me, for my kids?

And then what I didn't say is I, my husband had founded the

business, um, that he was in, and I took over running that business.

So stay-at-home mom to

running a business.

There was all these new things, um, and I kind of equate it to Whac-A-Mole, where

it's like, bam, I, I took care of that.

Bam, I took care of that.

And they just... things just keep popping up.

So happiness was not on my radar.

I just

wanted to, uh, uh, get through,

take care, Survive.

um, and

especially take care of my kids.

Yeah.

Wow.

Um, so i-if you, if you were to go back to that version of yourself and tell

her, or maybe you do, do you go back to that version of yourself and tell her,

like, it's o- like, you're doing a good job and one day you will be able to

feel

Oh, gosh.

Like, if I were to compare, you know, like a pre-loss experience to

post-loss experience and who I was in both of those places, and the

essence of me is the same, absolutely, but I don't sweat the small stuff.

I mean, I'd get all worried about, like, the cupcakes weren't delivered on time.

Okay Doesn't really matter.

So I

what I need to hear.

I can very easily just be like, "Yeah, I, I don't need to spend any brain space on

that," 'cause it's, it's at the end of the day, not really important.

So it'll... It's

allowed me to better focus where I spend my time and my emotional energy

on what's more important to me now.

Yeah.

it took you to... I mean, it, it's probably not something that was

measurable in, like, any sort of day.

But do you remember any moments where you realized that you were, that you

had grown as a person and, and changed as a person from going through that?

You know, I, I think it was really after I sold the business, and it took a, a little

over two years to sell the business, which was always the goal of my husband, Steve.

And, um, because I felt like I could breathe.

Like in, up until that time, literally, I was just trying to accomplish what

had to happen, and I didn't allow myself the space to go, "Okay, now, now what?

Now what's next for me?

Now what..." Me as a, you know, individual and an identity, what, who is my identity?

I had no idea.

And then how do I want to make that feel going into the future?

So,

that took two to three years to even start to fathom.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

'Cause I imagine, like you said, I bet you were playing Whac-A-Mole in

survival mode for those two to three years, and your kids were so little

so little, and it makes me so, uh, so s- I, it makes me so sad on one side,

but yet I am so proud on the other side

of, of who my incredibly strong, capable, uh, daughters that have experienced a lot,

like in addition to the things that, um, happened with their dad and, and grief,

and how they're each finding their own way through that, and how they're sharing

their experience and/or not sharing their experience, 'cause each of them

approach that differently.

Um, but it was, I mean, it was, it was incredibly hard and I parented different.

Um-

And 'cause there was this ideal of, okay, our kids are gonna

do this, and then they're gonna

do this, and then they're gonna do this, and then this life event happened.

I'm like, "Okay, we're just gonna figure it out in the moment of

what each child needs," because they're not a cookie cutter.

They, they're each

different in their own, capacities and educational needs and emotional needs, and

I guess I was really proud of myself for being able to, uh, quiet my mind of, okay,

this is how it was supposed to happen.

This is what everybody else is telling me to do, and this

is what I know is right to do

for my family and me.

Yeah.

Hannah.

I was, I was very much of a, "Okay, what do you think, and what do you think?"

And put it all together, and I don't wanna say did I have a what do I think?

Uh, certainly not as strong as it is now, and I have definite opinions.

I feel very capable.

I... and and I love that.

Yeah,

It's a great thing to get out of that.

Yeah.

Uh, Yeah.

and I guess silver lining a little bit.

And I, I don't wish a gree- you know, a loss experience on anybody to,

um, kind of come to that conclusion, but, but he- I've, I've learned a lot about

myself and things that I really value.

I feel like that's so important for people to hear because I imagine that

there's, mm, maybe, m- I bet many people probably experience some guilt in, in

finding the kind of benefits of loss, uh, because n- 'cause I think that would

happen naturally, that w- after you go through something like that, you,

you... M- I don't know how to word this.

But, like, you could either grow from it or you could just, uh, not...

Like, you could collapse from it.

Absolutely.

You-

you

Yeah.

Right.

of happier.

But,

so

Yeah.

And guilt, uh, and you brought up guilt at the start of this, was

there can be guilt of, "Wait, I just laughed, and I, I'm h- I'm happy.

But wait, I shouldn't be happy

because this horrible thing just happened, and everybody's looking at me, and they're

expecting me to be breaking down and crying." And, and so with that, it's okay

to be happy and feel sad at the same time.

And I do think there's this societal pressure, too, of

here's how you should be.

Please, everybody, give up the shoulds.

It's so hard.

Like, I, I shouldn't do this, I should do that.

Um, comparing, "Well, what I've been through isn't as bad as what they've been

through, so I shouldn't be this." You know, take care of you wherever you are.

Your experience is your experience in life, and, uh, do your best not

to compare it to other people's.

That reminds me of the idea that, like, grief is, you know, there's

like the stages of grief and that it sounds like a process.

But what I've experienced myself and what I have heard from other people,

that it's not, it's not linear like that

Um, what do you think about that, and what was your experience?

it's not linear at all, and, and frankly, I... until I went through this experience

myself, I didn't know much about grief either, and some of the things people said

to me, I'm like, "You know, I think I used to say that kind of stuff." Or, "Wow, it's

been a year and they're still kinda upset over this?" So this whole five stages of

grief, and there was a sixth stage added, um, it's not like start here, and then you

move here, and then you would move here.

If only it were that easy.

Like, if there was a roadmap for this, everybody, like, we'd all be golden,

right?

Right.

Check, check, check, check, check.

I'm great.

Um, yeah.

So, no.

And in fact, like, the stages, you could be, uh, having three

of them in the same hour or the

same five minutes, and that's okay because you are experiencing what you need to

be experiencing at that time for you.

Oh.

Yeah.

Jody, you've mentioned, you mentioned that, you know, some of the things

that people would say to you that you might have said in the past as well.

Like, were there things that people, said or, or did, like trying to

help you at that time that actually

were not very helpful or maybe, you know, was super helpful?

Absolutely.

Um, so comparing your own personal grief to somebody else's, you know, I would

have-- I had somebody, and I don't mean to make light of this, 'cause this is

very important, but they came to me, they're like, "You know, when my dog

died, I felt like this." And I mean, I felt incredible grief when my dog died.

But grieving people would like you to listen.

They're looking for somebody to just lend an ear, not try to fix them.

And we as people, we wanna try to fix people.

We wanna be like, "Have you tried this?

Have you

tried that?

What, here's a book." Um, because we want to lessen people's pain,

of course, 'cause, uh, we-- that's part of the human condition.

We, we're, we want to make people feel better and happier.

But, uh, grieving people really appreciate listening.

Secondly, some people, um, don't wanna talk about my husband or share a

memory because they're afraid, "Oh, but that might make her sad."

And most grieving people wanna hear those stories, and that's

how you keep their memory alive.

And, and I mean, if the grieving person is

not up to hearing it, they will probably say, "You know what? Now's not the time

for me, but please, you know, come back again." Um, and another thing is y- when

you're grieving and have experienced a loss, there's so much support all at once,

like for the first kind of three months, and it trickles off after six months.

And people are always like, "Well, they're out at the grocery store, and I see them,

and they're smiling, and they're doing the stuff, like outwardly looking like life

is good, so they must be okay." Check in.

Um, I have a friend, and, and a, not even like a super-duper close friend, like a

neighbor, um, a couple blocks away, and she put on her calendar those important

loss days for me, and she'll just send me a text, "Hey Jody, I know today probably

is a hard day for you, and I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you."

Something even simple like that.

I'd never thought about putting people's loss days in my

calendar until my husband died.

And, and now I do that for people and just reach out to them and say,

"Hey, I know this is a hard day."

And, um, I-- my

sister-in-law lost her mother recently, and on her mother's anniversary

of her death, I reached out to her and I talked to my brother.

I'm like, "This must be a hard day for Shelly." And, and he's like,

"What do you mean?" I'm like, "Mark."

Yes.

Wow.

Yes.

I reminded him, too.

Yeah.

I, I love that, Jody.

I love that idea of, of honoring that.

I lost my father about nine years ago, which was, I felt like I-- it

was a little unexpected at the time.

I felt like I was too young to, to lose my father at that age.

And,, it coincided with, two days prior to my birthday.

So every year I have that, you know,, just that association with, my father's

death along with my birthday, and I always reach out to my siblings on that day,,

to share photos and, and I have gotten a response a time or two where it's like,

"Oh, that, that's today," you know?

So I do think it's important to honor that, so...

it is, and it's, it's amazing too, even if you don't have the day in your calendar

or you're, you're, you know, trying not to think about it, your body still remembers.

Like,

I'll wake up and I'll be like, "Why am

I in such a funk today?" And then I'm like, "Oh, yeah." And, it's interesting

the signals your brain sends to your body and, and how you can feel all of your

emotions in all these different places.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Are you open about talking with your kids a little bit more?

So how did they, you know, what, other than like focusing on their, um, their

education and kind of keeping them alive and going, what has it been

like grieving with them, supporting them in their own grief, and helping

them move to a place where they can laugh and feel some joy again?

and Each of them were, are, were different, are different.

'Cause I had a nine-year-old, like she's... And, and it just broke my

heart like that the w- the world was no longer a safe place for her.

And a nine-year-old shouldn't feel that way, and that was so hard.

And, um, some of my girls are more expressive than others, and, um, some

want to talk about it more than others.

I think the way we talk about it more is in sharing stories.

And remember when we did this, or

it'll be a vacation and, and we'll be like, "Remember what Dad

did?" And he, um... Or a song.

It's so interesting.

He loved the "American Pie" song, and it always seems to

come on at times when we need it.

Like, my girls will call and, or send a text and be like, I just

heard the 'American Pie' song," and, you know, it was before a final or,

you... know, something like that.

And

that's special.

may be there if you are open to receive them and see them, and make that person

a part of still your day-to-day life.

I mean, they're not physically with you, but... And I talk to Steve, um,

and frankly, I'm angry at him sometimes.

Uh,

and, and he certainly didn't want this to happen in his life, and he

would want to be here, but it's like I'm carrying a big weight here, and

I could use a little help.

Um,

and, and I don't know the decision to make, and I think it's the right

decision, but I really, you know, don't wanna make it by myself.

Oh, and I was talking to some, a group of widows, and we were talking

about happiness and going out with friends and how fun that is.

But the other part that makes that fun is when you come home and you can kind

of rehash, "Oh, so-and-so said this,

and we did that," and, and we don't have that.

So it's, I don't want to say it's a letdown, but it...

you don't have that kind of residual replay back.

And frankly, I'd never thought about it like

I have

never thought about it

either, and now I feel kind of bad that I've never thought about that.

I'm gonna really appreciate that when

I am chattering away when I get home from being out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Someone that I know that lost her husband, um, when her daughter, when

their daughter was two and a half, um, was telling me the same thing.

She said, she said, "You know, I, I, I can make these decisions, but it's

just so much easier when you have someone to make the decision with, and

you feel more confident, and you have someone to bounce the idea off of.

And of course, you have other people, but they're not your child's parent,

and so it's, it's not quite the same." So you really have to, uh, you-- I

imagine you had to really develop self-trust, like really strongly.

You were kind of forced to, I guess.

I was forced to, and I mean, a lot of the situations that presented themselves

surely had never been things that I'd ever thought of, tried to figure out.

But, you know, I real- I guess something I realized about myself is my network

is bigger and more vast than I thought.

Um, and remember, I was a stay-at-home mom.

I, I took over our business.

I didn't have a LinkedIn.

I didn't think I had a network.

I wasn't thinking like that.

But when you really think about your friends, your people, your neighbors,

your people in your church, your community, that is a vast, group,

and allowing yourself the ability to say, "Hey, I need a little help

here, and, and I know you're, you know, you might be an electrician.

Could you please come over and just tell me what I need to do?" Or, "I've gotta

look at a new school for my child, and, and I know you just went through this.

Oh, what was your process?

How'd you do it?" And so being open, uh, to knowing what you don't know and being

able to ask for help, and that's not easy.

Jody, did you share the story that your neighbor just

started shoveling your driveway

and then just did.

it for years or something?

Oh my gosh, that was me, and that was one of the biggest gifts ever,

and I live outside of Chicago.

It snows.

It's cold.

And so that very first snow, and here I am, I'm like, I have to figure out the

snowblower, and I got up at like 5:00 AM, and I'm like, "Sorry, neighbors,

but I've gotta get kids ready for school and get myself ready for work and get

on a train." And a neighbor pulled up, like from a block away, in his van.

He unloaded his snowblower, and he just snowblowed our snow for seven years.

He

showed up every day.

And so sometimes people are like, "Well, I don't know what to do for

somebody." If you could shovel their snow

or plant... I had friends that planted my front planter on my porch for different

holidays, and that was just lovely.

I came home, I'm like, "Wow. I- it's beautiful."

Yeah.

I know, and I, I feel like it goes back to how, not even realizing the

things that we do before, before, you know, our life shifts so much.

So I imagine there were lots of things that you discovered, uh, as you were

living, like, "Oh, yeah, I guess this is something that Steve always

did," or, "This is just something that was easier because he was here."

For sure.

And I think my brain would default on, "Okay, this is an investment

decision. That is not me. That is Steve." And so I didn't attempt to try

to understand because I just... That, that was his job, and this was my job.

And so learning about all the things you have to learn about that maybe you're

not the expert on in your household is challenging, but yet incredibly rewarding.

Mm.

To look back and go... I mean, I remember, uh, it was one of those days

where I, like, open the kitchen cabinet and it falls off, and then I open the

garbage and the garbage falls out.

I'm like, "Okay, I can fix this. I have a screwdriver downstairs," you know?

And then I would say to the girls, I'm like, "Okay, girls, we're gonna fix stuff.

Like, let's go get the tools and figure it out." And my kids really had to step

up, Hannah and Amy, and, and they did.

And I mean, I used to make their lunches every day.

I couldn't make lunches every day,

so, you know, they had to start making their lunches every day.

and and even little small things along the way has made them more confident

and capable and independent, and, and they wouldn't have become who they are

today had this experience not happened.

Jody, thank you so much for everything, everything you've shared so far.

I'm curious, you know, how do loss and grief, contribute to a meaningful life?

What do you think that relationship is between the two?

Oh my gosh.

So we're all going to experience loss and grief, and a large part of that

depth of all the feelings we feel is because we were connected to someone,

we've loved someone, and that change in that connection is, is so difficult,

but yet it allows you to learn more about yourself too, because you have an

opport- an opportunity, not that it is an

So many opportunities.

my gosh, every day it's like

five million opportunities.

But

Right.

no, but it makes you reflect, like, "Who am I really? Who am

I now?" Um, and you may not know who you are now, and that is okay.

But just to start to kind of tiptoe around that question and experiment

with, "Geez, I've never been in this position before. I don't know what to

do," but try, try just one thing that might be different than what you've

been doing and see how that feels.

But having been through the loss and the grief that I have, I'd say, I

don't sweat the small stuff, and I spend time with people and experiences

that are really meaningful to me, and if they're not, uh, they're, it's

not worth me spending the time on.

And so I feel, I feel lucky professionally too, that I was given the space that I

could take some time and go, "Okay, I sold the business. That was, that was Steve's

thing, and what is, what is my thing now?" And how to, how to find your thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Um, yeah, thank you so much, Jody, for, for sharing that.

Your story is really, you know, one of the most extreme versions of, the

idea of, thinking we can be happier.

So what would you say to a listener who maybe feels like their own

struggles, you know, aren't big enough to justify, feeling stuck?

Ah.

Um- It's not a competition.

and I think if you look out there and it goes back to, like, comparing yourself,

like, "Okay, I don't have it so bad because they have it much worse." And

there's no degrees.

If you are not feeling in balance in yourself, then that's worth exploring

and, and taking the time, and don't, don't wait till there's a crisis,

um, to then, I guess, have to or be forced to out of life circumstances.

Take the time, time now.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a good reminder.

Absolutely.

You never work through, like you don't get over grief.

You learn how to grow with it,

and that's what's important is that learning how to grow with it, um, because

Steve is always gonna be a part of me.

And my grief is there, I mean, 11 years later, for sure.

However, I like to say the edges are softer, and, , I

still cry sometimes for sure.

And I have those moments where I'm sad that he's not there experiencing a

graduation, teaching a kid how to drive, uh, meeting their boyfriend for the

first time, all of those sorts of things.

So Jody, I'd love for us to talk a little bit about what you do now.

So I'm curious how you went from, living this experience to making

it your professional purpose.

You know, was that like a deliberate decision or, did it

find you through this experience?

I would say both.

So today I work and spend my professional life in the grief space.

So I do a number of things.

I work one-on-one with widows, uh, as a coach via Zoom, and help them find

their new path forward and help them try to discover what their new identity is.

And then secondly, I go into companies and I have workshops on grief and,

teach employees and managers on how to better support each other in

those major life transition events.

And that took time to find, but after I sold the business, I took a year to

just breathe, and then I really just started reflecting on where do I...

where are spaces that bring me joy?

And working with women brings me joy.

Helping people who've gone through a similar experience as me brings me joy.

And so I first started, with widow coaching because, uh, I knew that

through my experience and, and I went and got additional training

and things to support that as well.

It's incredibly fulfilling to see that self-discovery process that, that

widows and, and others in grief and life transitions are experiencing.

I love that you're able to, to be able to support, other women in that capacity.

Jody, is it-- H-how do you manage that in terms of, you

know, your own self-care and,

you know, just being able to sit with other people's grief,

at the level that you do?

It's an honor for me to be able to do that because I also know

there's plenty of people out there that don't feel comfortable in

sitting with somebody else's grief, and that's what the person needs.

They just, they want somebody present to understand, a similar experience, and so

it, it absolutely fills my cup to do that.

I balance that out of, uh, okay, I'm not going to have five, uh,

grieving clients back to back 'cause that's, that's a little challenging.

So I do sprinkle in other non-grief related work as well.

Um, and Actually, when I first started a- and expressed to my family,

and specifically my parents, that I wanted to go into this line of

work, they're like, "Are you sure that's not gonna make you too sad?"

'Cause they didn't want me to feel down or sad or blue and, and it really doesn't.

I mean, I don't take on somebody else's grief.

I walk beside them in that grief.

Oh, I love that.

They're

so lucky to have you, Jody.

Yes.

a

And I also wanna say, I, like I, I... You also, uh, publish a lot of blog

posts, I really get a lot from y- the stuff that you write, even just For

my life outside of the sort of area of grief.

I think, I think maybe one theme that we're even seeing through this

is that there's a lot that you can learn about yourself that just comes

from challenge, regardless of, of how that challenge is presented.

And so I really love the... I really love everything that you write.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

And, and yes, people think of grief with death, and it's not.

Grief is a major life transition, and you will have feelings around whatever

that major life transition is, and it could be a really, really happy moment.

Like, I just had a baby.

That's really, really happy.

But now you're trying to figure out this life with this new person and, and that's

new and a little bumpy at the beginning,

I was just talking about that over the weekend with my sister-in-law.

I think it was my sister-in-law, and we were talking about how, like, when we

had our kids, we grieved the loss of our,

the, the non-parent version of us.

And Yeah.

she's still in there, but there's no getting it back.

You know, you... That, that child being born is quite permanent.

, And so it is a, a, a form of grief.

Coming back to the idea of meaningful life, I do think that when we are

able to choose to look at these challenges, once we're out of the

thick of it, as opportunities.

But I do think that, that, yeah, we can start to see that, like, it

has... I mean, Steve's death has added a lot of meaning to your life.

It's undeniable.

It is.

It absolutely is.

And it, it is a part of what's shaped me, but it's not what defines me.

Um, and I am very comfortable saying I'm a widow, and frankly, I'm proud of that

a little bit because we had a fabulous marriage and, and I like talking about

the fact we had a fabulous marriage.

And I wish I wasn't a widow, but, but I'm proud of at least the f-

the 17 years we did have together and what we built together and

how we have a solid foundation for our family, and I was just talking

with my kids this weekend about it.

Um, we have the-- my last name is Lavoie.

We have the Lavoie family values.

I have published the Lavoie family values.

There have been

times when my kids are

not living up to the Lavoie family

values, and I'm like, "Remember?

Remember this?

Let's go back to that." Yeah,

that's

That reminds me, uh, just this morning I was poking around on your website,

and I downloaded your guide to joy,

Your guide to joy for, for widows or for people going through grief or something

like that.

And I just, I thought, "Wow, that's so great to see this, written permission."

It's written permission, which I think is probably really needed by a lot of people.

You know, it is, 'cause there's that guilt of I'm not supposed to enjoy life anymore.

I'm not supposed to laugh.

I'm not supposed to, um, if- find another partner in life, uh, and,

and there's no s- not supposed to's.

You get... You are able to create your, your life.

Yeah.

So, um, we have some questions that we ask all of our guests so what does

happiness look like today for you,

practically,

yeah, and it's really being much more present in my life.

Um, before I lost Steve, I was Not very present.

I'd always be worrying about what's the next thing I have to check off the

list and get done and, you know, move, move all the chess players around.

And, now I'm able to just, I'm gonna turn off my phone, I'm gonna turn

off distractions, and actually have this conversation with my child who's

calling me on the phone, and not try to, like, do the laundry and all the

other things at the same time, so I can be a better listener and be more

present for myself and for others.

And you mentioned not sweating the small stuff anymore too, which

really, I imagine, helps so much with that.

It ve- yes, it really does.

Yeah.

That's great.

All right.

So Jody, I'm curious, what are you still working on?

You know, are there any areas where you feel like you're still in progress?

Oh, gosh.

Uh, always,

um, always in progress.

Um, I think what I'm been exploring now, as well as I have over the

years, you know, I, I would like to find another romantic relationship.

And it's, it's challenging, but I am also learning about myself in that

process of not only what is truly important for me, but ways I-- areas I

might be holding back in with that and those relationships and exploring why.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great.

So Jody, we'd like to end each of our episodes with, uh, each one of us

sharing what's real for us this week.

So we're gonna ask you to, to choose one question to respond to, to share

something that's been hard for you lately, something you're working towards, and,

or something that's bringing you joy, something you might be looking forward to.

Yeah.

Um, so I'll, I'll choose the joy side.

I have been traveling a lot, uh, on the weekends, long weekends, to see my kids.

They

all have chosen to live in the South.

Nobody wants to live

up North, uh, where I live.

And, And, it's just been so fun to just go see them in their s- separate spaces.

But it also brings me joy the connection they have with each other, and how

they'll just FaceTime each other, or they'll send each other a little

text with- without me even involved.

And

that.

connection that my girls have, have together brings me joy.

Yeah.

Oh, I love that.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

about

you, Amy?

What are you gonna pick?

I'm actually, I'm gonna go with something I'm looking forward to as

well, because I, even though this week feels pretty busy in every way possible,

I am so looking forward to next week I'll be, um, be heading out for spring

break, uh, with my daughter to do some college tours, and we will also be

able to, to visit my son as well on one of those, on one of those stops.

So I'm really excited about having that time with her and to be

able to see him in his element.

So yeah.

What about you, Hannah?

Oh, I'm gonna bring it down a little bit, but I'm gonna pick

something that's been hard for

me lately, but just 'cause it's really on my mind, and it's, uh, it's actually

a, a good thing that has, uh, that has led to a little bit of a challenge.

I have been traveling for the past two weeks.

I was home for

one day, or one and a half days, and, uh, and yesterday was my first

full day back, and I don't do well without a buffer day, and I was

not able to build in a buffer day,.

And I'm very grateful for the travel, and I will also be

grateful when I'm all caught up.

Yes.

I, I find it... I was just talking to my therapist a little bit

ago today, and I was just like, "It's really challenging for me."

Uh, I do not like to be not caught up, and so it's uncomfortable.

But I'm getting there.

I'm getting there one thing at a time.

So

yeah.

Do what you can,

yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, thanks so much, Jody.

This has been really great.

Thank you for sharing everything with us and

Absolutely.

Well, thank you for inviting me.

You ladies make it easy.

Yay.

Good.

Yeah, Jody, it was so wonderful to speak with you.

Thank you so

Oh, you're welcome.

Thank you.

Oh, Amy, that was such a great conversation.

I'm so glad that we had Jody on.

I know.

I am too.

I'm too, that was so wonderful to just to hear her, to learn from her experience.

Um, yeah.

She's amazing.

It's actually the second time I've gotten to interview her,

and I feel like I just learned so much, even just the second time.

And I also feel, uh, kind of inspired to take the lessons that

she's learned and apply them to

Yeah.

life, as I feel like, as I

Yeah.

like, things have been a little bit hard for me yesterday today.

And so I, I feel like I need to take that don't sweat the small stuff

Right.

a little

Yes.

and I think that might help me get through the day.

So

Yeah.

Hannah, I, it's, I know, I love that you, I love that you shared that, because

that's definitely like my big takeaway as well, just as a parent, as a another

busy person, I, I think it's really, really helpful to keep that perspective

of, yeah, don't sweat the small stuff.

Um, there's more important things, right.

So,

yeah.

right.

Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody, and check out

the show notes for more information and Jody's contact information.

The blog posts that I mentioned are down there, too.

And just a reminder that this podcast is not a substitute for

professional mental health support.

Please take care of yourself and reach out to a qualified licensed provider for help.

And please reach out to us.

We would love to hear from you, and for now, you can email us at

hello@icanbehappier.com, and you can visit our website at icanbehappier.com