In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu, CEO of Cleary, sits down with Adam McCoy, VP of HR at DMC Global Inc., to discuss what AI really means for HR leaders navigating economic pressure, talent shifts, and rising expectations to do more without adding headcount.

Adam explains why he is not asking for more HR headcount and how AI is changing the way teams prioritize, execute, and deliver value. From building leadership training with AI to rethinking day-to-day workflows, he shares practical examples of working smarter without sacrificing quality.

The conversation also explores how AI is reshaping talent acquisition on both sides of the hiring process. As candidates and employers both use AI tools, Adam breaks down the tension between efficiency, bias risk, legality, and candidate experience. He argues that AI fluency is quickly becoming a baseline expectation across roles.

They discussed governance and guardrails. Ignoring AI is reckless. Banning it is unrealistic. HR must help define responsible use, protect data, and build literacy across the organization.

The episode closes with a clear message: you won’t be replaced by AI, but you might be replaced by someone who knows how to use it.

Topics Discussed:

1. Why many CHROs are prioritizing productivity over headcount expansion
2. Using AI to build leadership training and accelerate HR execution
3. The evolving AI arms race in talent acquisition
4. Balancing automation, bias, and legal risk in AI-powered hiring
5. How AI fluency is becoming a baseline job requirement
6. The role of HR in enterprise AI governance and data guardrails
7. Why ignoring or banning AI is not a viable strategy
8. Reskilling inside the HR function to stay relevant
9. Maintaining trust and employee experience in an AI-enabled workplace
10. Why adaptability, not fear, is the real competitive advantage

If you are an HR leader navigating AI adoption, rethinking your talent strategy, or wondering how to stay relevant in a rapidly shifting workplace, this episode offers a grounded and candid look at what it takes to lead through the shift.

Additional Resources:

1. Cleary’s AI-powered HR Chatbot
2. Future Proof HR Community
3. Connect with Adam McCoy on LinkedIn

I heard this at a recent event that you're not gonna be replaced

2

by AI, you're gonna be replaced by

someone who knows how to use AI.

3

Thomas Kunjappu: They keep

telling us that it's all over.

4

For HR, the age of AI is upon

us, and that means HR should

5

be prepared to be decimated.

6

We reject that message.

7

The future of HR won't be handed to us.

8

Instead, it'll be defined by those

ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.

9

Future Proof HR invites these builders to

share what they're trying, how it's going,

10

what they've learned, and what's next.

11

We are committed to arming HR

with the AI insights to not

12

just survive, but to thrive.

13

Welcome to Future-Proof HR Podcast

, where we explore how forward-thinking

14

HR leaders are preparing for disruption

and redefining what it means to

15

lead people in a changing world.

16

Today's guest is Adam McCoy,

VP of HR at DMC Global, Inc.

17

A 20 plus year global HR leader

across manufacturing, supply chain,

18

financial services, aviation, and tech.

19

Adam focuses on aligning HR strategy

to business imperatives while

20

elevating employee experience.

21

He also serves as Colorado s

shrm state director, where he

22

recently helped convene the state's

first AI focused HR conference.

23

So a lot for us to talk about.

24

Adam, welcome to the podcast.

25

Speaker 2: Great, great to be here.

26

Excited for the conversation.

27

Speaker: So I'd love to talk about AI,

but before that, I wanna, play back

28

a quote that you told me, you told me

last time we chatted, which is that,

29

you're not running into the CEO's

office anytime soon asking for a lot

30

of headcount within the HR function,

31

Speaker 2: right?

32

Speaker: with or without

a recession on deck.

33

Speaker 2: Yeah.

34

Speaker: Tell me more about that.

35

Speaker 2: I think that, with

just the state of you know, you're

36

right, the economy set aside.

37

I think that we're in a place where there

are so many exceptional tools coming out

38

every single day that we actually are able

to find ways to work smarter, to work.

39

I think frankly to in many ways end

up with a better product, and not

40

need necessarily all of the headcount

that it might have taken historically.

41

When you think about developing something

simple like a job description or a

42

comp plan or a PowerPoint deck, those

things would've taken a lot of time.

43

And when you're a leader, you

probably want to save your

44

time for what's most valuable.

45

And perhaps you need to be maybe in the

approval process, but maybe you wouldn't

46

have spent a lot of time designing it.

47

Well now, everyone can do it.

48

those folks of course, that

stay AI literate, right?

49

And I think that's, that's the imperative.

50

Speaker: okay.

51

So I said we're not gonna talk about

AI with this question, but actually,

52

so it sounds like that is like

really like what's on your mind?

53

In addition, I don't know, there's

a kind of uncertainty, arguably

54

in the macroeconomic situation.

55

Speaker 2: I think that's more to it.

56

I think that's definitely right and

certainly in our industry, in some

57

of the industries that our companies

and my company's involved with

58

are experiencing some volatility.

59

I mean, I think like a lot of companies

are right, and I also don't know that

60

it makes a lot of sense to go out

recruiting a bunch of folks at the moment.

61

when the whole sort of larger economic

climate is a little bit unsettled, right?

62

So I think it is about figuring out

what you can do, with what you have.

63

And how do we challenge and keep

our staff ahead to meet this demand?

64

But you're right, I wouldn't be

going into the corner office, as to

65

ask for a significant incremental

headcount unless it was something

66

project based or something.

67

But otherwise, I don't think based on

economics, based on industry, I think

68

there's a number of things that cause

that conversation to be where it's at.

69

Speaker: You're very engaged

in the local HR community.

70

Speaker 2: Yeah.

71

Speaker: And you're talking to

your fellow CHROs all the time.

72

What are the themes that have

73

than in years past for you?

74

Speaker 2: I think people used to feel

like aI was something fairly nebulous.

75

Yes, we need to do AI

because we need to do AI.

76

Because of course, why

wouldn't we wanna do AI?

77

Because everyone's talking about AI

and it's on the front page of every

78

newspaper and blah, blah, blah.

79

But I think that for me, some of

the learnings that I've had from

80

a couple of groups is some of the

things that we think about as probably

81

most capable in an AI setting.

82

What are some of the things I just

said, like in recruiting or in

83

the creation of basic policies and

communications and those things, and sure.

84

But I'm also, I was really in excited

and intrigued to hear about what

85

someone larger companies are up to with

how they're using AI to really help

86

streamline their employee experience.

87

In a couple cases, their

customer experience.

88

And while I suppose one could

wonder about all of the kinda

89

the tentacles of those actions.

90

I think that

91

it feels almost cliche, I

suppose, but almost limitless.

92

Like where we can go, we just need

to make sure we can as they say,

93

keep the robots from rising up.

94

But I feel like most HR leaders are

having some pretty intense conversations

95

internally, whether they own the AI

strategy or not, but certainly how it

96

impacts employees, companies that aren't

97

taking a hard look at it, I

think are missing the boat.

98

There's leakage, right?

99

They may think, oh, we

don't use AI, whatever.

100

But they are.

101

And I think that's what a lot of CHROs are

trying to not only figure out the what,

102

the why, the how and, some companies are

definitely farther along than others.

103

Speaker: So you said something

interesting there, which is that

104

depending on the company, you might

have a different role in HR with

105

relation to how the organization

will proceed forward, with ai.

106

Tell me more about that.

107

And also if you think in your view, like

an ideal role that the HR department

108

plays in a movement of the entire

organization towards being, let's say,

109

more AI fluent native adoptive et cetera.

110

Speaker 2: I think that some organizations

probably will rely on their it functions

111

perhaps to set this, to either set

the strategy or to at least set the

112

framework, put the guardrails up.

113

And I think that's most companies are

grappling with what does that mean for us?

114

But I think for HR, to me, the things

that hit my mind are how do I ensure

115

the employees know what they should

be using, how to use it, right?

116

Because I think that there's so

many tools that are out there that

117

are just deployed as part of our

operating systems these days, right?

118

Yeah.

119

That people could just go to the races and

how can I help make sure not only we're

120

using it for the right things, but also

that they're having a good experience too.

121

And so I think about things like

training, I think about things

122

like partnering with the business.

123

So I even understand what's the

business hoping to do with AI?

124

How can I support that?

125

Because obviously as we recruit and

people turn over, how do I help make

126

sure that the recruiting strategy

meets their needs to around AI?

127

I think HR will certainly play a

significant role in the continued

128

evolution of AI in the workplace.

129

Speaker: Absolutely.

130

So there's like the training and

also I around both the foundational

131

skills, let's call it, around

how to engage with these tools.

132

'cause it's a generational shift, right?

133

But then on top of that, the specific

tools that an organization is using.

134

Ensuring that you're partnering with

the business to ensure there's a

135

good experience and outcomes there.

136

But then also you're talking about how

it maps into the recruiting funnel.

137

Speaker 2: Right?

138

Speaker: Because that's another

interesting shift, right?

139

I feel like it's commonly told that

if you're just generally looking

140

for a job as a knowledge worker, go

sharpen your AI skills somehow and

141

that should like somehow help you.

142

From a recruiting perspective, do

you think that's starting to permeate

143

into the job descriptions or just the

requirements right across the board

144

and across industries and across

roles as being relevant and useful.

145

Speaker 2: I think it is definitely

starting to permeate across many

146

facets of the recruiting experience.

147

The whole talent acquisition process.

148

I think that certainly as a recruiter,

using these tools to not only help prepare

149

the most dynamic posting, the phraseology

that will get people's attention.

150

And I think that there's so much

to consume out there, right?

151

So how do we use the tool to

help us cut through the noise?

152

Sure.

153

That's one thing.

154

And I think will have a long shelf life.

155

But I also feel like in

talking with again, some other

156

my recruiting colleagues.

157

I think there's maybe some growing

concern because the applicant pool

158

has become so sharp as you said.

159

People are now using these tools

exceptionally well, frankly.

160

And when I think about HR's role to help

maybe screen through candidates to hand

161

off a slate of candidates, we think is

the best right to the hiring authority.

162

How does that change?

163

I have probably friends in my network

that are probably embellishing, right?

164

Their skillset, right?

165

Because the tools lets them

let them do that so they fit

166

through the funnel, right?

167

And I guess kudos for

using technology, right?

168

But I wonder about you can almost

start to see it in some resumes.

169

Like when you like really take a close

look like the phraseology, It almost is

170

I dunno, my grammar school teacher would

probably say I wasn't the best grammarian.

171

But you can see in some language like

wow, that's fascinating word choice.

172

And that makes me wonder

what was behind that, right?

173

I think something like as you

said, like the recruiting process

174

is the tip of the spear, right?

175

And that's one way that we as HR

professionals are gonna help build

176

more successful businesses, right?

177

Is we want to attract and retain the

brightest and most capable talent.

178

And if this can help us do that's great.

179

I hope that people are

using it judiciously.

180

Speaker: Yeah.

181

So you went in a very

fascinating direction.

182

Which I wanna come back to in one second.

183

But I'm curious first, from the

approach of the job description itself

184

Is a line item like AI fluent or like

able to, whether in marketing or in

185

sales or in operations or HR, whatever

the function across every function.

186

Are you starting to see the business

demand, hey, some kind of AI literacy

187

or fluency or showing that you've

done a project or done something?

188

And is that permeating kind of the

requirements of like more and more roles.

189

That's really I want to get at

that first before we come to the

190

actual recruitment side of it.

191

'Cause from the talent acquisition

team's perspective, there's a fascinating

192

story you're starting to get into there.

193

But if we think all jobs are

shifting, are we starting to see that?

194

Because the new jobs that are going

out there are starting to evolve

195

to need AI to just get a new job?

196

Speaker 2: I think that's definitely true.

197

I've seen it certainly in more and

more job descriptions be whether

198

it makes the final job description.

199

It's certainly a requirement in

talking to a hiring authority.

200

they may use a specific type of

tool or a specific platform that

201

they wanna make sure you have

advanced experience in Copilot Pro

202

or ChatGPT, version X, XX, right?

203

Not only fluency in the tool, but

also to your point, have you done

204

advanced modeling, doing, using this

kind of tool for this kind of outcome?

205

And I think that will

continue to be out there.

206

And, as I think about it from a

candidate perspective, and frankly

207

just as an employee, I think

that scares some people, right?

208

and.

209

I think that again, it's cliche

that people say oh, I have

210

to adapt, I have to change.

211

it's real.

212

Yeah.

213

I think that's absolutely true.

214

But yes, I think to spin around

to the top, I do see it continuing

215

to permeate job requirements.

216

and I expect we will be soon

getting to a place where you'll

217

have to demonstrate your fluency.

218

Speaker: And to that point

it's only escalating, right?

219

Yeah.

220

So it's just hey, you can have a

one minute conversation about AI,

221

'cause you used it for a recipe.

222

Okay, great.

223

That means that you have some basic

mindset towards agility or like

224

curiosity that we've established.

225

Okay, great.

226

Let's move you forward.

227

But maybe, depending on the job

and the industry and the function.

228

It'll be much more stringent, right?

229

show me how or there's like a take

home project for certain roles.

230

It's literally leveraging certain like AI.

231

So yeah, I can see that escalating.

232

So I'd love to circle back to

the really important point that

233

you made, which is, I think of it

almost there's like a war going on.

234

So let's go cliche, like

the talent war always.

235

Sure.

236

And what's interesting at this point

is the usual profiteers in war are

237

selling to both sides in this case.

238

So the candidates are yeah, there's

tools out there for candidates,

239

so I quickly do all types of crazy

stuff to just get in the door.

240

Speaker 2: Yep.

241

Speaker: And they're fighting

AI bots and all types of things

242

that recruiting teams are putting

in place to get more efficient.

243

And you're like getting to this whole

new level of the shell game, right?

244

If you want to keep using

this war metaphor, but either

245

way it's certainly changing.

246

As you're like working with a recruiting

team, how do you, think about the

247

guidelines or you mentioned in some

cases maybe things might be going

248

overboard on either side, right?

249

Yeah.

250

How do you think about the guidelines

that you said, like even like with

251

your own recruiting practices, right?

252

Because there's probably a tool that

you can take to eliminate any human

253

interaction through the entire offer.

254

That's right.

255

Except all the way to offer,

accept process if you wanted to.

256

Speaker 2: Yep.

257

Speaker: We're not exactly

doing that, but yeah.

258

Have you thought about the

guidelines or the guardrails?

259

Speaker 2: Yeah.

260

Yeah.

261

and I think the crazy part I would say is

that just your comment, four seconds ago.

262

One of these, CHROs that was

in the luncheon I was at just

263

recently here, they are doing that.

264

The people apply, through their ATS right?

265

And the AI evaluates their

candidacy, flips them back,

266

beautifully written responses.

267

It feels absolutely human through to phone

screen that actually it is done by AI.

268

It sounds perfectly human.

269

It helps craft the offer and essentially

based on all of those things, it makes a

270

decision and passes that to a recruiter

who actually then reviews everything and

271

makes sure that this seems reasonable.

272

That feels what a marvel

of efficiency, right?

273

But I think the other thing that HR

folks are struggling with and I think

274

our friends in the legal department

are struggling with are we've trained

275

people over the years, hiring managers

and HR professionals to keep the

276

hiring process as unbiased as possible.

277

Thinking about discriminatory factors.

278

Those kinds of things that can creep in.

279

And we do our best to guard against that.

280

How do we know that process that I just

described was on guard against that?

281

And I'm sure someone's gonna say

to me, Adam, you teach the machine.

282

I'm okay, I get that.

283

That makes sense.

284

But as humans evolve, I don't know if

it's quite that easy for it to always

285

be making the best choice.

286

And so I worry about some of

the screening tools that I know.

287

So a lot of the recruiters rely on now.

288

Because I think, again, the state

of the economy, there's a lot of

289

people in the job market, right?

290

And so I don't fal a recruiter

for using these tools they have

291

to just get their job done, right?

292

But I think it's making sure that we have

calibrated these tools to do what we need

293

them to do in a set aside, the legality.

294

'Cause I know that's shifting around

on a lot of these kinds of things.

295

But just what we should stand for, right?

296

As HR professionals.

297

And so I think that's definitely a

ongoing conversation among HR leaders

298

is do we feel confident in these tools?

299

I think people are feeling more

confident as we, as the tools evolve.

300

But I don't know that I'm ready to have

that whole process be managed by AI.

301

I think there are components

of it that can and should be.

302

But I think it's the TA process

that HR professionals think

303

about when they think of AI.

304

I think for the most part, right?

305

Because there's other things,

having it handle employee

306

relations, those kinds of things.

307

It's gonna be incredibly difficult

for it to figure that out.

308

But it's repetitive.

309

The TA process is repetitive, right?

310

Speaker: Yeah.

311

Speaker 2: It's a great use case, right?

312

I think

313

Speaker: Combine that with immense amount

of volume and employer bargaining power

314

at the moment with the labor market.

315

Speaker 2: That's right.

316

Speaker: And it's just like

this formula to let's just say

317

push the law to catch up, right?

318

That's right.

319

To efficiency.

320

Yeah, I'd like to think that the

other kind of downstream impact of

321

this is imagine a market where it

is a little bit more even, right?

322

Like for headed back to in and in

323

Where it's very tight.

324

Speaker 2: Right?

325

Speaker: Think about the candidate

experience and for top talent.

326

That just feels I don't

wanna deal with this bot or

327

Speaker 2: Right.

328

Speaker: people leaving, getting

outta these funnels because they just

329

feel like it's disusing them of their

humanity and they can do better.

330

That's a potential downstream

effect I can see as well.

331

And it seems like the industries

where this kind of mass automation

332

and talent acquisition is most used

is where that balance is completely

333

shifted in favor of the employer.

334

Speaker 2: Right?

335

Speaker: And there's let's

just go as far as we can.

336

But the moment, I guess

markets are brutal, right?

337

The moment you're not able to successfully

get a high conversion rate of talent,

338

there's gonna be pushback on that.

339

And that's even separate from

the both the ethical and legal

340

constraints that you mentioned.

341

Let's talk also about some

other, use cases, right?

342

Everyone has different ways that

they've come at AI use cases like

343

both personally and maybe the

first time in the work world.

344

Tell me about a little bit about yours.

345

Like how did you, what was the

first you found it adding value

346

in one of your like workflows?

347

Speaker 2: One of the things

that I've used it for recently,

348

and did a fairly used it.

349

I think fairly successfully, was the

creation of a pretty comprehensive

350

training curriculum for what I might

call kind of leadership 101, right?

351

So for folks that are new to leadership,

the foundations of why do you need to be

352

a leader all the way through to how do

you have a difficult conversation, right?

353

And a colleague of mine in my

SHRM network here in Colorado

354

also was talking with me about how

she had done something like this.

355

And so I think I had to

learn a little bit, right?

356

Of I wanna make sure I'm using

the right cues right or the

357

right prompts as they say, right?

358

I want you to build this with this long,

with three exercises, two handouts,

359

a graphic and a whatever, right?

360

And I was amazed at generally the output.

361

And through to the speaker's notes,

it helped me actually focus more

362

on the conversations in the room.

363

Which I feel like that's

where I'm adding the value.

364

Putting the words on a screen,

it's important, 'cause of

365

course they're staring at it.

366

We're all staring at it.

367

But the fact that I could focus

and hear and really listen, right?

368

Because I had the notes

right in front of me.

369

I didn't have to worry about losing

my place, those kinds of things.

370

If I was listening intently to the

room and come back to the curriculum.

371

But I thought it was successful.

372

It's something that I've talked

to a few of my peers about.

373

And we've been kinda exchanging

some experiences and what those

374

products actually looked like.

375

Oh, what tool did you do yours in yours?

376

Yours has some cool whatever, right?

377

And

378

Speaker: yeah.

379

Speaker 2: But at the end of the

day, getting back to kinda your

380

top question, it saved me time.

381

And in this era of I think not

resources just everywhere, it

382

served its purpose very well.

383

I was very pleased.

384

I think the attendees were

pleased and I would do it again.

385

This has been a fantastic

conversation so far.

386

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

387

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

388

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

389

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

390

can all thrive in the age of ai.

391

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

392

community.

393

Now back to the show.

394

Speaker: So if you did not have

access to these tools, like if

395

you're doing this in we were in 2021,

396

Speaker 2: yep.

397

Speaker: would it have been

that you just wouldn't have

398

done the training to begin with?

399

Or you would've had the same amount of

time to do the training, but then you

400

would've gotten feeling way less confident

and prepared and probably not as great

401

of an outcome or another way to look at.

402

Would you actually have had an intern or

more access to resources back then where

403

they would've actually, you would've gone

back and forth with them to get it done?

404

Speaker 2: I think I would've

been less likely to commit

405

to the training number one.

406

Because

407

just even the process of coming

up with the words that you would

408

ordinarily used in 2019 or 2020, right?

409

Speaker: Yeah.

410

Speaker 2: It's an art, right?

411

And obviously the AI is

helping us with that art.

412

It's not a replacement, but it's a helper.

413

And if I had not had that, I would

not have been as able to become as

414

prepared as I was in the timeline

I needed to become as prepared in.

415

So the alternative would've

been two of them in my mind.

416

I did, either we didn't do

the training or we hired a

417

consultant to come in and do it.

418

And that has its own pluses and minuses.

419

Of course, both of them.

420

And we've gone down those roads before

we all of us have in HR, I'm sure.

421

But the fact that we can speak the

language of the business where we're

422

in, we don't have to, a consultant

doesn't have to get up to speed,

423

Speaker: Yeah.

424

Speaker 2: there's just a lot

that I think can make this quite

425

a story at the end of the day.

426

Speaker: Absolutely.

427

Thanks for going through that.

428

And then another kind of topic I wanted

to get your thoughts on was just enabling

429

the enterprise more broadly, right?

430

So with AI.

431

Have you guys gone like wall to wall?

432

Everyone, every employee has access

to some kind of LLM and go in.

433

And I'm just curious

like where you guys are.

434

You are in enabling the entire

organization and how that

435

process has been working.

436

Speaker 2: We are in

the midst, I would say.

437

So there are a couple of tools that are

currently out there and I think because

438

we've had some experience with them now,

over time, I think we will be like a lot

439

of organizations that I've heard from are

probably gonna be tailoring to probably

440

one or two choices for the general.

441

So for the wider employee population,

there could be scenarios where say

442

in finance or actuarial needs where

an even more powerful, more advanced

443

tool might be needed and that's great.

444

I think for the vast majority of

employees, we will be for example,

445

rolling out a policy that guides

the use, the responsible use of

446

AI technology and what kind of

technology we will want people to use.

447

Because I worry the companies

that haven't addressed that.

448

Speaker: Yeah,

449

Speaker 2: There's data

being leaked, right?

450

And they're either, they're not aware

or they don't wanna deal with it.

451

Or they think it's insignificant.

452

And I that's pretty important to me.

453

I think that as HR professionals, someone

could say, that's it securities issue.

454

That's the general counsel's issue.

455

I don't see it that way.

456

I think that this is a process where it's

gonna take all of us to help shape the

457

use of technology in our own environments.

458

And I think that's a

critical role for HR to play.

459

Speaker: Yeah, I agree.

460

And it should be once you align on that,

it should be a part of the training

461

for every new employee that comes in.

462

So you're maintaining that

standard once you created it and.

463

Who's gonna take that on, But Right.

464

But the HR team and to

ensure that it's ongoing.

465

You created this floor around of

understanding around like data use.

466

Like in fact, that's like the most basic

thing I feel like when I hear HR leaders

467

say like you have folks who are just

trying to look away and say, this is not.

468

For me, or maybe for other companies.

469

It doesn't matter in my industry.

470

But what are the chances that

some employee somewhere when the

471

organization isn't using, some sort

of AI tool for some part of their

472

process, it's like almost nil for

almost every company at this point.

473

And so at the very least, you

need to have something to address

474

how we are gonna allow it.

475

Even if what you're saying is, yeah,

we don't care about AI and we don't

476

want any adoption and don't use it.

477

Or you're not allowed to use it.

478

And if you do it, it's it's

of your own kind of volition.

479

But we will...

480

I dunno, we'll sue you if you

take company data off offline.

481

But you gotta address it in

some kind of format, right?

482

Speaker 2: Right.

483

I think that either of those

scenarios, I think are.

484

Not going to be the

winning scenario, right?

485

We're just gonna ignore it.

486

We're gonna pretend it's not happening.

487

that's just reckless.

488

Yeah.

489

And I think we're gonna forbid it.

490

I think is also not contemporary, right?

491

This tool is here.

492

It's impacting every port of your life.

493

You go onto Amazon, it's making AI

recommendations on that new pair of

494

shoes that it thinks you should get.

495

I think it really is about helping think

through what are the guardrails, right?

496

Because I, I believe in the

goodness of people, right?

497

And I'm sure that employee that

wanted to do an analysis of some

498

sales forecast or something.

499

More data.

500

Speaker: Yeah.

501

Yeah.

502

Speaker 2: They threw it into their

tool and it came back beautifully.

503

They got what they wanted, but that's now.

504

Speaker: Yeah.

505

Speaker 2: So I worry about that.

506

Yeah.

507

But organizations are

tackling it and we are too.

508

Speaker: Yeah.

509

Let's talk some more about

talent acquisition again.

510

One nuance is about like field roles

and manufacturing roles, right?

511

I know that that's like the sector.

512

Like a lot of your

portfolio leans towards.

513

Do you think the AI tools have

will have differing impacts in for

514

different types of industries, from a

recruiting efficacy kind of standpoint.

515

Or how do you think about it that

in your sector, without breaking

516

trust with candidates in the

recruiting process to leverage AI?

517

Speaker 2: I think that it will

vary, I think, based on sector.

518

I think that some sectors, I think

that some parts of work that are gonna

519

be either incredibly more manual, I

think there will be different kinds

520

of requirements that will continue

to be baked in that may not lean as

521

heavily towards these things, right?

522

But I think that as you move along in

your career, I think that even if you

523

started in a manufacturing role, right?

524

Like it's going to become more and

more of a reality as time goes on.

525

And even if today it's limited, perhaps.

526

I think in 12 months it's

gonna look different.

527

And in 12 more months it's

gonna look even more different.

528

I think keeping an eye to that

candidate experience and that employee

529

experience and adapting that a bit,

I think based on the environment you

530

operate in, I think is, appropriate

and I think would be more smart.

531

Yeah.

532

Speaker: At the top we were talking about

doing more with less or just having less.

533

In terms of resources, you

gotta like really clarify what

534

you can and cannot work on.

535

Or maybe you can do more or just as

much because of AI tools out there.

536

But the reality is there's some

prioritization, mechanics, I think

537

every CHRO's going through in the year.

538

As you're thinking on that evolved

at all or on how you would prioritize

539

just programming, just resources

like within the HR team for this era.

540

Speaker 2: I think...

541

Any golden rules or even spec or all

the way down to specific things that

542

you feel are just relevant for you.

543

I feel like it's conversations that I've

had with my team about how they use it.

544

What do they need to

use it more effectively?

545

The industry they're sitting in,

what do they see as the sort of next

546

use case in their function of HR?

547

And so I wanna be able to help,

and I think any CHRO would wanna

548

be able to help bridge that right.

549

And figure out, okay if even if I don't

know it which is entirely possible, right?

550

Let's go find it.

551

Let's go find the person that can

help us better understand this.

552

I think it all does, we're working

smart, we're focusing on the

553

right value added activities.

554

And if it's a new module of an

existing AI tool that we need to

555

consider or a bolt on to one of

our other pieces of HR technology.

556

I think we have to be

open-minded to what people need.

557

And I think it will be different based

on not only their role within HR, but I

558

think also their acumen with the tools.

559

Speaker: So now we're getting into

a little bit into this already.

560

HR re-skilling or skilling and re-skilling

within the HR function and across all

561

of the disciplines like within it.

562

Love to get your thoughts.

563

is, What's gonna be a really ascendant,

like what kind of skill sets are

564

gonna be really important for a

great future proof HR department?

565

Speaker 2: I think it's

going to be critically around

566

these kinds of conversations.

567

Being someone who continues to lean in.

568

I think that it would be easy

for some people to think this

569

tool is gonna take my job.

570

I heard this at a recent event

that you're not gonna be replaced

571

by AI, you're gonna be replaced by

someone who knows how to use AI.

572

Yeah.

573

I feel like helping to ensure that

574

you remain literate.

575

you think across the HR profession, there

are a lot of things that we do, like a

576

lot of fields that to stay current, right?

577

Understanding what's changing in the

regulatory climate, what's changing

578

at the local level, et cetera.

579

I think this is another one

of those things that will

580

be essential to stay fresh.

581

Because what we use it for

today, we're gonna use it for

582

something different tomorrow.

583

And if you aren't ready to adopt

that, then that could be a challenge.

584

And I think it's not being afraid, I

think it's really embracing the tools.

585

Speaker: It's interesting you say

that 'cause you're giving it the same

586

level as knowing the business or like

knowing like your local situation,

587

knowing the regulatory environment.

588

I feel like 10, 20 years ago when we

went from, I dunno, paper to HRIS, right?

589

Or like on premise or

like cloud-based software.

590

I don't think from an HR team

perspective you would put, hey, you

591

really need to know how to do word

processing versus writing it like.

592

I don't think you'd put it at that same

kind of tier in terms of like importance.

593

But do you think this is like distinct

in that it's like as much if you're

594

gonna be an HR professional in the

future like being AI literate is like

595

on that level with these other things.

596

As opposed to previous what we might

previously say about technology.

597

'Cause one way to look at this is, hey,

it's the latest wave of technology.

598

It's been shifting since

the industrial revolution.

599

Sure.

600

And it's just, you always gotta learn

the new tool and get with the times.

601

Speaker 2: No, I think

that's exactly right.

602

As I think about the entire AI

conversation, I think it used

603

to be the shiny new thing.

604

not that many years ago,

it was the shiny new thing.

605

Yeah.

606

Now, I think it's becoming imperative

and I think that those folks that

607

let themselves fall behind, I think

will not be as successful long term.

608

Speaker: So then we've made a

couple of things that, arguably

609

a couple of assertions that

arguably is like doom and gloom.

610

CHROs aren't gonna be like

expanding HR headcount anytime soon.

611

Maybe the market is such that

everyone needs to do more with less.

612

CHRO is able to provide like more

value themselves by using tools to do

613

a training that they otherwise wouldn't

have been able to do in the past.

614

Which is all great.

615

But If you are a college graduate or

about to come out and are crazy enough

616

to want to get into the function, right?

617

New and upcoming.

618

What thoughts would you have for them?

619

If a diverse at all from this do and

gloom summary I try to put in place?

620

Speaker 2: I think that it

is ripe with opportunity.

621

I think that there are so many ways, I

think, to embrace this technology, and

622

yes, it's making our workplaces different.

623

Sure.

624

But that's okay.

625

At the end of the day, I really

believe there's always gonna

626

be a place for good people.

627

If you're coming out of school or

you're coming new into the profession,

628

I think you get as experienced

as you can, as quickly as you can

629

and do it with the right things

that where the risk is low, right?

630

As you continue to build your skill

up and some of this stuff it's like

631

the high diving board too, right?

632

For me, I think that some of this

stuff is you just jump in, right?

633

And I think you have a

lifeguard that's great.

634

And you go right?

635

And I think that's what I would

say to someone who's coming in

636

that is not to be afraid of the

impact of some of these things.

637

The whole work construct I

think will continue to evolve.

638

And I think this is here to stay.

639

Speaker: You're really painting

a picture for me, Adam.

640

Talking about the high

diving board followed shortly

641

after talking about impact.

642

And I'd prefer to start

with the low diving board.

643

Even with the life

lifeguard in place there.

644

And I would pause it.

645

That's what college and side projects.

646

There's so many ways to get those reps

in if you're willing to like just go off

647

and learn and try things on your own.

648

Whether you're getting into the

workplace for the first time or you

649

already are at a place and have a role.

650

Right?

651

You could probably ask yourself literally

anything that I find myself doing.

652

Can I make this more efficient?

653

But If that's the case for like new

grads, one other perspective I would

654

love your thoughts on while I have you

is what about from a CHRO's perspective?

655

It's a very different vantage point.

656

There's sub-functions that are like

rolling and there's all these processes.

657

Not to mention you're thinking about

the executive team and the board and

658

enablement of the entire organization, but

personally as a CHRO or like when you go

659

to these other like SHRM meetings, like

what are the things that you can advice

660

you would have or at least things that

you do personally to feel like you're

661

adapting and moving with the current and

feel like you have a handle on things.

662

Yeah.

663

Like how do you actually do that?

664

What would you say you do

tactically, day to day, week to

665

week, along with everything else

to feel like you're with it?

666

Speaker 2: I keep trying.

667

I think that's so important, right?

668

I think that it would be easy for

someone to say, as you just did.

669

That okay, from where I sit,

I don't need to know as much

670

about the blah, blah, blah.

671

And I think that's when a leader of

any function, HR, finance, whatever

672

starts to lose a little bit of touch.

673

And I think that I wanna stay

relevant just as much as I

674

want my team to stay relevant.

675

And so I think you make a great

point that it's how I've become in a

676

fairly short order, I think, become

so comfortable with having it open

677

and just using it throughout the

day just for little things, right?

678

And larger things alike, right?

679

And so I think it's challenging

ourselves as much as we challenge

680

our departments to adapt.

681

and the business as a

whole, and that's our job.

682

Speaker: I love that.

683

So look at the man in the mirror

and then just keep trying.

684

I love that message because it

is easy to say there's a lot

685

of other things to do, right?

686

And maybe this is like someone else's job.

687

But then if you are trying every day that

it tends to show up right to your team,

688

to those around you, all stakeholders

and the message for the change that

689

you're looking for in the organization.

690

If it's embodied in what you're

doing personally, that's just

691

absolutely accelerates things.

692

So thank you for this conversation.

693

That's might be about

all the time we have.

694

But it was really fascinating to go talk

about the current environment that we

695

are in as a CHRO and what you're seeing

from a talent acquisition process.

696

The promise and the perils.

697

But ultimately you gotta try.

698

Gotta keep going, gotta try.

699

And there will be roles and there

will be jobs for good people, right?

700

Just have the right mindset.

701

I think that's a great

optimistic note to end on.

702

So thank you so much for

this conversation, Adam.

703

It's been fascinating and for everyone

out there who's following along

704

looking ways to future proof their own

organizations, their own HR functions.

705

I think you may have found a couple of

nuggets of insight and maybe a little

706

push to go off and do a thing or two.

707

And so thank you again, Adam

for this and signing off.

708

See you guys on the next one.

709

Bye Adam.

710

Speaker 2: Thanks.

711

Thanks for joining us on this

episode of Future Proof HR.

712

If you like the discussion, make

sure you leave us a five star

713

review on the platform you're

listening to or watching us on.

714

Or share this with a friend or colleague

who may find value in the message.

715

See you next time as we keep our pulse on

how we can all thrive in the age on AI.