Michael Bland, renowned drummer known for his work with Prince and the New Power Generation, engages in an insightful conversation with Joe Kelley on the 'Musicians Reveal' podcast. This episode delves deep into Bland's illustrious career, highlighting his experiences as a musician who has performed alongside legends such as Chaka Khan and Soul Asylum. The dialogue weaves through Bland's journey from his early days of drumming to his current role, painting a vivid picture of his artistic evolution. Listeners are treated to anecdotes about the music industry, the unique dynamics of playing with Prince, and the lasting impact of the pandemic on musicians. Bland's candid reflections on friendship, mentorship, and the personal connections forged through music resonate throughout the episode, offering both inspiration and relatability to aspiring artists and seasoned professionals alike. Furthermore, the episode touches on the technical aspects of drumming, the importance of listening in musical collaboration, and the significance of community within the music scene, making it a rich tapestry of insights for music lovers of all backgrounds.

Takeaways:

• Michael Bland shares insights about his experiences drumming for Prince and the New Power Generation, highlighting the unique musical dynamics.
• The podcast reveals the deep camaraderie among musicians in Prince's band, emphasizing the importance of listening and adapting during performances.
• Bland discusses the evolution of his drumming style and how it was shaped by his work with iconic musicians like Prince and George Clinton.
• The conversation touches on the challenges and joys of collaborating with legendary artists, providing a glimpse into the creative process behind the music.
• Bland reflects on the profound impact of the pandemic on musicians and the importance of self-discovery during challenging times.
• Listeners gain a behind-the-scenes look at the recording of 'Diamonds and Pearls' and the collaborative spirit that defined the project.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Soul Asylum
• Prince and the New Power Generation
• Warner Brothers
• Paisley Park
• Funkadelic
• The Time
• Crooners
• Mavis Staples
• Living Color
• Teddy Riley
• Master P
• Ocean Way

This is Michael Bland from Prince and the New Power Generation.

And you are watching Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelly.

My next guest here on Musicians Reveal is an amazing guest who's a friend of our show for.

We were talking a little before.

For maybe over 20 years, he was the drummer for Prince and the New Power Generation.

He's been the drummer with Soul Asylum currently.

And also Shaka Khan Maxwell, Sons of Almighty Brothers, and I know a lot of other gigs he's done.

He's an extraordinarily talented musician, a great guy to have on.

Michael Bland, welcome.

Hey, Joe.

Yeah, how you been, man?

We ain't seen each other in a long time.

Yeah, we talked, I think once during the pandemic a little bit.

Yeah.

Just when the vaccines were coming out and everything was question mark.

Right, sure.

Yeah.

That was a.

Man, that was a very.

A lot of people.

Well, some people didn't even make it out of the pandemic, you know.

Yeah, right.

Billy Franz, he.

Bless his soul, he passed, you know, guitar player for.

For Dr.

Mumbles combo.

Right.

And, yeah, and, you know, some people might remember him as one of the guitar players with Mavis Staples on the Nude Tour when she.

The other one was Sunny, actually.

Oh, okay.

So, but so were you working?

You were working Mavis and Prince Double D?

Yeah, I was.

I mean, it's funny that.

I mean, Prince gave me so much latitude, man.

He really must have enjoyed listening to me play because, I mean, you know, it's like, you know.

But not only that, when we.

More often than not when, when I was playing with Mavis, Prince would follow me out to the stage and then I'd go one direction and he'd go to get his guitar backstage and he would be funking along with us like the whole set.

Wow.

You know, so he took that as a.

As an opportunity to warm up himself.

And, man, I'd be back there, just listen to Sonny and Billy and Prince just all playing guitar together.

Man, that was so nasty.

Who.

Who was playing was Morris, who was playing the keys on that gig Barbarella was on.

Oh, Barbarella.

Okay.

Who you still.

Who you're still performing with, so that's cool.

Yeah.

No, these are.

These are my people, man, for life.

Yeah.

Well, that was your first outright full fledged tour and I think you were like 19 years.

19 or 20.

I probably turned 20 in that March.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, yeah, going out on a tour like that.

I know Prince travels nice.

Were you like overwhelmed by all this going on or you just like heading and head into the gig and soaking it all up?

You know, I, I was more of a soaker.

I just sort of, you know, because you people give you a sense for what you can expect on your way in.

You know, just that what kind of a person Prince is and you know, how he likes to do things and so on and so forth and like, you know, like, don't ask Prince about this.

Don't, you know, don't be trying to give Prince your songs.

Don't be trying to, you know, you know, just a lot of.

There's a.

The protocol, there's a way he likes to work.

He was a very private person, you know, somewhat withdrawn mostly, you know, unless we were in the process of performing.

I mean, just like talking to him.

He was always sort of, you know, soft spoken and, you know, so it's just, you know, you.

I really sort of was conditioned on the way in.

It was like, understand that, you know, this premise, these premises are surveilled, you know, yeah, you might be on camera, you might not.

So.

Right.

Just understand that and know that you don't have any legal authority in this situation now.

Now, back then, you know, we heard stories about Prince, his motivational tactics with different musicians.

Was he extremely hard on you or, or was he kind of let you do your own thing?

And back in those days, I wouldn't.

Say that he was particularly hard on me.

I, I think that I was, I was vetted probably more than most people were because I was at bunkers.

He could come down, you know, once he was checking me out, he was coming and he was looking and he was.

He got on stage, he sat in with us, he started coming around.

And then, you know, of course the audience increased and it was a packed house every week for years, you know, but so I think he.

And then I did a session for him finally.

And his dad was there actually that day.

Oh, it was like a Saturday.

And they were just kind of hanging out in the, in Studio A.

And I met his dad and I went into the, to the drum set and you know, I guess he was like, I was telling my dad about you.

Like, he was really, you know, like enthusiastic about all the stuff that we were going to do together, which I had no knowledge of.

But it's just, I started coming out there more often and more often at that point.

But I think the first thing we did was he asked me to overdub drums on a song called the grand progression.

That's a classic.

Yeah.

Yes.

And, you know, he start the track up and I'm.

It was.

I was kind of uncertain about, like, what was the approach, because it sounded like instruments were sort of coming in and out and sort of like almost like a Sly Stone record.

You know how, like, it's like you'll hear something and it'll be gone, you know?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Something will pop in the mix out of nowhere.

You know how slides working?

Yeah.

Weird.

Like that.

Right.

That's what it was like.

And I was like, I kept getting ready to do something, but then things would change a little bit.

And he finally stopped the tape.

He says, is something wrong?

I say, yeah.

I said, it's, It's.

I, I, I'm having trouble figuring out how to approach this.

And he said, oh, it's.

It's supposed to sound like musicians are coming together.

It's for a movie I'm working on.

It was for Graffiti Bridge was Grand Progression.

Got replaced by still would stand all time.

Ah, okay.

Yeah, that's what happened.

And he said, it's supposed to sound like you don't exactly know what you're doing.

I said, ah, okay.

It's supposed to sound like you're trying to follow along.

I said, okay.

And that freed me up, but it still took a bit of, like, method acting, sort of.

Yeah.

Because.

And.

But then again, I really didn't know what I was doing, so it's like.

It wasn't acting.

It was just.

That was what he was after, you know?

And I.

I'll tell you this.

I.

I left the studio a looking for a bathroom, and it was on a Saturday, so a lot of the staff wasn't there.

Okay.

So there was nobody really to tell me, like, where's the bathroom?

So I think I turned left and I went up the stairs.

Okay.

And I walked all the way down, and I saw, like, the stained glass door of his office.

I was like, right.

Oh, maybe that's the bathroom.

Right.

So I go all the way in.

This might be the first time I'm telling this story publicly.

I go in and I'm like, okay, well, this is somebody's office.

It looks kind of like an office.

Well, maybe there's.

I go around the corner.

Oh, there's the bathroom.

I'm standing in there at the commode.

And then it hits me like, you idiot.

You're in Prince's private area.

You peeing in his toilet.

And then I look around, I'm like, whoa.

And then I just Gotta, you know, finished up and got out of there as quick as I could.

I was like, you know, I bet I probably had that on camera.

Me leaving the.

Leaving the movie, leaving his office.

And you went back in the studio and he goes, michael, yeah, Never pee in my facility.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

You got no home training.

So there was that.

I was petrified that, you know, he would find out, but nobody saw me.

Nobody seemed to see me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That place had a lot of.

A lot of turns that, you know, and you.

You've probably seen most of the places before.

We move on to other stuff.

A quick question.

This was from our.

You know, the viewers don't know that you're coming on, but somebody.

And something else.

When you were on my show, they wanted to know what kind of cabinets in the.

The recording studio were they.

You mean in the.

In the actual.

The control room?

Yeah.

I think, like, they want to know what kind of speakers were in there.

Yeah.

I think that.

I'm not a musician, so I.

I.

Wish I.

I wish I could tell you.

They were made of wood is all I remember.

Okay.

And they look very expensive.

Okay.

And I actually had a conversation about the sound system in studio A once with Sal Greco, who used to be the studio technician at Basley.

Right.

And then he left to work for Ocean Way in Nashville, I think.

But Sal Greco, just the nicest guy you ever want to meet.

And he told me a story about how he had to replace those speakers because the first time Prince turned the system on by himself in the studio, he blew the speakers up.

He.

Like.

He was kind of, you know, kind of tinkering, and I guess the master was, like, way up and, like, Prince hit play and.

Wow.

Like, they.

He's like.

He must.

That must have scared him, because to hear those speakers break like that, like, pop.

He's like.

He said, Prince just kind of.

He said Prince kind of did.

You know, he kind of walked kind of swiftly to his office and said, hey, something's wrong in there, or something like that.

Yeah.

Get it fixed fast.

Yeah.

Just fix it.

He didn't.

I don't think he wanted to, you know, But Sal quickly figured out what happened, and he, you know.

Did you ever see Prince.

Did you ever see Prince work?

Work the board, particularly mixing stuff down?

Oh, yeah.

No.

Prince was a.

Prince had studio chops, man.

People.

I don't.

I mean, he was.

It was.

I didn't seem like there was nothing he couldn't do.

There wasn't anything he couldn't actually, you know, like, put his mind to and actually accomplish it.

And, you know, a weird thing is that I happen to have knowledge of is that Love Sexy ended up.

Prince mixed Love Sexy, basically.

And the main reason he had to mix it was because this is before he had the 48 track digital machine.

And track space was limited.

So sometimes he cheat.

He put a guitar riff on like a vocal track.

Oh, okay.

Where there was space.

Or he'd put, you know, he'd do overdubs on tracks that already had stuff on them.

So if you don't know what's coming, you can't readjust the levels for where it's.

You know, for what's.

What's happening.

So he tried to have a couple people, they were like, dude, I don't know.

I don't understand.

It's like stuff is jumping out from everywhere.

It's like, how.

How.

Who.

How do you.

How can anybody mix this?

You know, like, you'll have to do it.

I think he finally went, okay, well, yeah, I guess.

You know, I remember when Love Sexy came out.

I don't know if it was.

Greg Tate from the Village Voice in New York did a review on Love Sexy, and he said the album sounds like three turntables going at the same time simultaneously.

He.

He paid it a compliment.

But I.

Yes.

All these years, that sticks in my mind.

That's a correct analogy.

I get that.

Yeah, right.

There's so many overdubs on Love Sexy.

Just layers of.

I mean, I know you've heard Alphabet Street.

That's three bass parts.

Like, three bass guitars.

Levi.

I talked to Levi once about how he had to consolidate.

Like, I had to take the best parts of each performance to kind of make it all work live.

Like, I.

You know, he just.

He kind of pushed all three of the takes together and figured something out.

Yeah, so.

So with the head, is it audible through the headphones or you have to be a musician to hear the three bass tracks?

Well, no, because the way Prince plays like Prince, it's funny, man.

Because I.

I know so many people are like, why did he always bury the funk like that?

I'm like, that because it's.

Because if you put too much funk forward, then it's.

It.

I think it changes the appeal of your music.

I think it's.

You know, I think Prince was always wanted also.

He just liked things to be shrouded in mystery.

Like, even on those early records, like the synth work, a lot of those, he, I think actually fake told me.

He's like, prince just handed out cassettes of the album that learn this.

Right.

I said, did he tell you what patches he used?

He's like, nope.

Me and Lisa had to figure all that out by ourselves.

So he was stacking patches.

He was taking one patch and then putting another keyboard on top of it.

So there's no program in the OB or the OBXA that will make that sound.

You gotta create something, you know, Otherwise you don't have enough hands.

Right, right.

Yeah.

We had Eddie M.

And John Paris on last week.

And Eddie said something like that.

His first rehearsal when he was with Sheila.

Prince said, tomorrow, I want you to bring tape recorders.

Because I'm not going to remember all this stuff.

So it's up to you to learn so something.

Yeah.

Here's what's ironic, though, is that he would still remember.

I mean, Right.

I, I, I mean, after I was gone, Morris told me about a moment where they were in rehearsal.

Prince had his back.

He was playing piano.

He had his back to the lights and everything.

And Prince was, It was during, like, his, you know, solo thing.

And this was rehearsal.

And he said, Prince stopped and he looked up and he said, I told you I don't want to see that color on my stage.

To the, the lighting guy.

Yeah.

And it's like, nobody even knows how he saw it.

Like.

But then I thought to myself, I know Prince.

I tell you what, he's looking at the reflection on the ground.

He's looking for a certain pattern.

Because that's the type of dude he was.

Because that's the type of guy I was.

Sort of like, I.

You start to learn to look for things to measure your environment by, like, even musically, you know.

So, yeah, I, that's what I think happened.

And actually, I was also the one who figured out, like, well, at least the one print.

Print person, Prince knows that, or knew that.

Figured out that he recorded the first three songs on Parade in one sitting.

He recorded the drums first.

Okay.

Like, I think I just have very good sort of like, analytical skills or something.

Right, right.

Like, especially when it comes to recording arts.

I was like.

And I thought to myself, like, that's the only way he could have done this.

And I finally asked him.

He was like, who told you that?

He was upset because I, you know.

I was like, I figured it out.

Yeah, I know.

I just sort of figured it out.

And he just kind of.

Being, you know, an extraordinary drummer like yourself.

What kind of Style of drummer.

Or maybe that's too.

Too broad about that.

Prince played.

Did he have a certain style like he would play as a drummer?

How would you like.

Well, he was really into Tower of Power when he was a kid.

And their drummer is phenomenal.

His name is David Garibaldi.

Right.

Oh, wow.

You know, I haven't been able to find that, actually.

The.

I haven't been able to confirm all the facts yet.

I was gonna do a podcast with Bruce Forat, who took over the Lynn.

The Lynn Company.

He took over Lynn and.

And Oberheim.

I think he bought the company from Roger Lynn.

I think I was gonna talk to him because he was an early programmer at Lynn.

And I was going to talk to David Garibaldi at the same time and try to get to the bottom of this, you know, because Jelly Bean couldn't tell me.

He's like, man, I don't know what they were doing.

That's right.

And Jelly Bean, hey, you sounded a little like.

All I know is I was underpaid.

Right, right, right.

All I know is I didn't get my money straight.

Yeah, we love being.

Hey.

And you guys have stayed in the Twin Cities, so you gotta give you guys a lot of credit for that.

You run into each other in town a lot.

Ah.

You know, I.

When I used to play down at Bunkers, I kind of stopped after the pandemic.

I just.

It was time for me to do something different.

I've been in that.

In that band for more than 30 years.

Wow.

And, you know, I just.

I.

After.

I mean, during the pandemic, I did a lot of.

It was cathartic for me.

Like, it really helped me kind of try to figure out who I was and what I was trying to do with the time I got left.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But it, you know, it negligible.

It had an adverse effect on a lot of people that I knew.

But for me, it helped me to kind of re.

Identify.

I know who I am as a musician, but who I am as a man.

Right.

You gotta have some time, some introspection, you know, you got to figure out.

It's like that was the longest I had been away from performing my then since I started.

Wow.

You know, so it gave me.

I really had to like, well, who are you, man?

Do you like yourself?

Like, you know, do you feel like you're really contributing to the world, you know, Are you living the principles that you, you know, espouse?

You know, it really was like a.

The meditative thing for me, you know?

Yeah.

And I kind of came out of it like, I need to do something new.

I need to stop being.

Stop complaining about being in environments where I'm not in charge and the person who was leading me is unfit.

I need to take an initiative.

And that's when I put my band, Urban Classic, together, which is.

And you got another gig February 2, right?

February 2.

@ Crooners.

@ Crooner's Supper.

What do you call it?

We'll have the link in the description.

Something like that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I.

Yeah.

Who's in the band?

You, Tommy.

Me?

Tommy G.

Sharp, who was legend, legendary.

The took Sir Terry Casey's job in Maserati.

But then the.

That record got shelled.

He moved here to be in Maserati and then they broke up.

Bad boy.

A paisy.

Right.

Cast away.

Yeah.

So he's like, oh, I better make the most of it.

So G's.

You know, G was in the combo twice in 30 years.

Wow.

So we've been kicking it forever.

And I just like, during the pandemic, I was like, well, who would I reach out to?

And he was the first person I was like, g, let's start a band.

You got me, Right?

And so.

And from there it's.

Yeah, Barbarella me.

A bass player from New York named Rob Long.

Okay.

Who's just fabulous.

He subs for Sunny at Bunkers and a young guitar player named Jeff LaCrone who, God bless him, he's hanging around with some gnarly folks, man, because, you know, we are.

We're very expressive, you know, And I.

I get the feeling that he comes from, like, he may be a Methodist or a Lutheran background.

And he's.

He's very quiet and soft spoken and I tell a lot of off color jokes and sometimes I wouldn't think of that of you.

I just, I'm sorry.

It's just.

It's getting in that environment.

We, especially with G, we bring the best and the worst out of each other.

Like, we just, just.

We talk a lot of bs, man.

Right.

And I see Jeff Lecrone, you know, he's like 33, you know, and he's just kind of.

I see him mortified sometimes.

And then we just, hey, man, you better toughen up.

You know, this is how it is.

So he tolerates us and, you know, we try not to make it too rough for Him.

But yeah, then we got a horn section and another local talent, JB sings with us.

And also a Midwest legend, Mark Lichtai.

Amen.

Blue eyed soul singer from Iowa, who was also in the combo.

They've all been in the combo, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's.

It's familiar folks.

The combo's still Monday night, right?

They're actually.

They're on Sundays now.

Oh, Sundays, Okay.

They.

The club decided they wanted to be closed on Sundays and have the band play on Sundays.

And it's worked out, I think, better for them because I remember back in the day when Mick Sterling and the Stud brothers had Sundays, we played on Monday, and it'd be like holiday weekends, right?

And yeah, we'd be thinking, oh, hey, we're gonna.

You know, we might make a little money, but no, some of those people are going back to work on Monday.

So, Mick, they'd have a, like a killer night, you know, like, you know, and like Memorial Day weekend or something.

They make a killing.

And then, you know, we'd have, you know, a mere pittance the next night and mad.

Sometimes I remember greasy meal on Sunday nights.

They did really well.

That was also a threat.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

They.

They ran my other band, men who eat out, out of business.

We were playing at the Whiskey Junction on the corner, and the caboose is up the block, and people started coming over to see us just on their breaks and then going back.

It's like, man.

And then I went on.

I went to France to do something.

I got home and I said, okay.

I was talking to Billy Franzi.

Hey, man, how is everything going?

So.

So I'll see you Sunday.

He said, well, no you won't.

We got thrown out.

We got fired.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Ana.

Hey, you could tell Tommy Barbarella too.

Uhhuh.

Well, no, those people are all my friends.

I didn't.

Yeah, they're great, Julius.

Yeah.

And.

And to the winner go the spoils.

I mean, they outdrew us, you know?

Yeah.

Right.

And so, yeah, you know, all's fair.

So the battle of the bands, like Purple Rain was existent back in a few years after still, they had three.

Bands and they didn't need both.

Yeah, classic moments right there.

Hey, let me move on to something which is up for a Grammy.

The Diamonds and Pearls deluxe box.

Oh, yes, I know.

Dwayne Tudor.

Heavily involved with the historical facts.

To Dwayne, man.

Yeah, yeah, he's.

He's been our show.

Great guys.

He killed it.

Yeah, yeah, so.

So did Dwayne and others approach you for details in some of the tracks that came out of the.

The woodwork.

Well, here's what happened.

I started out with whoever was the guy that was on it before it landed in Dwayne's lap.

I can't remember his name right now, but that was the guy I was speaking with.

I can't remember his name right now, but I made a mistake and I leaked some information I wasn't supposed to on a podcast.

And that sullied our relationship a little.

Like.

Like he got in some trouble because of me.

Okay.

And I was like, okay, note to self.

Don't say anything about anything to anybody until it's out.

Right?

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, Dwayne and I, we talked about some things.

He had curiosities, but I don't think he needed me for, like, any, like, information.

But he'd have to tell you.

But we just kind of.

He's like, wow, what was that like?

You know, like he'd ask questions about stuff.

Right.

He did ask me to confirm a couple dates or did this happen and was this recorded here or was it here?

Some.

A couple of things like that.

Anything on the box set that.

That surprised you that you hadn't heard or you heard it and say, oh, that's what we were playing on?

W.

No, I.

Well, yes.

What is it called?

Blood on.

Was it Blood in the Sheets?

Blood on the Sheets, Yeah.

I'm not sure the exact.

If it's on or.

Yeah.

But I know the track, a version of the same kind of riff.

It's called Dark side.

Okay.

And on that one, you can hear Prince kind of talking to me and directing me through the.

Through the track.

Like, when you come in, he said, tell me, like, what to play on when I come in.

And he's.

He's.

He's telling me what's what.

What the sections are as we're playing.

I think that was just him and me and Levi that day.

Right, Right.

Yeah, but last time we.

I knew that.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, you've got a sharp memory, remember that.

But Dwayne was telling me when he came on to discuss one of his other books, he said when he writes future books, it's going to be tougher because the studio logs.

When recording at Paisley, he.

He thought we're not as.

Going to be as detailed as Sunset sound and stuff like that.

So, you know, I.

I'm like paraphrasing what he said.

Are you.

Is.

Was.

So what are you saying?

He was trying to.

Well, I guess he had the.

It.

Sunset sound.

It had the day Prince was there, what was recorded and.

And for how long and who was there possibly.

And sure, I guess when he had his own studio, that stuff probably wasn't.

He didn't do as much notated.

Yeah, so.

Oh, sure, I get that.

Yeah.

I know.

He wouldn't have been as tedious.

Yeah.

And yeah, because I mean, it's funny, I just saw a clip of Susan Rogers saying that people think Prince was, Was a perfectionist and he wasn't.

He was not.

You couldn't have been that prolific and tried to get everything perfect.

Perfect.

He was really like a one or two take type of dude.

He'd get mad at me if I asked for a third.

A third take.

Oh, wow.

It's like you actually one day he said, you worse than I am.

No.

He said, no go.

I'll call you when I need something.

And he sent me out of the studio.

You're worse than I am.

Wow.

So.

So any song that you recorded come to mind that was particularly difficult for you to get, get the hold on it that.

That was released?

Oh, I mean, I was always equivocating over very small details.

I mean, once I had the form, you know, he, he.

But he still might change things.

But when you get used to having to just sort of operate on this shorthand, you can follow along pretty good.

It was.

If it was something that I was unhappy with, it was a execution error.

It wasn't like I would forget what was happening, but I would just play something I didn't care for.

Okay.

Or I felt like my pocket got loose for a minute and like, you know.

Or I just like, oh, I thought this was coming.

And prison would say, that's fine, I'll use it.

So any mistakes I made where he was just like, let's keep moving.

He would figure out a way.

For instance, the morning papers.

There's a break at the end of Morning Papers that's not supposed to be there.

But back in the day I.

I would have my hat on.

Then I put the headphones on just like this against the hat.

Right.

I just had the whole thing on.

And sometimes my hat would slip off and the headphones would go too.

And that happened on the take of Morning Papers that's on the Symbol album.

And I thought Bruce was going to be upset.

He was like, nope, I'll use that break.

No problem, no problem.

You know.

And.

And he did.

Yeah.

Yes, he was.

Yeah.

He really was like.

He would.

Yes.

I could see what Susan was saying that he was really interested in capturing the spirit.

The record was just a kind of a sketch, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

Like he really wasn't like his music kept expanding because he was always trying to beat the record when we played live, like, nope, the record did that.

That's not good enough.

That's not working here.

We need to go even higher with it, you know, that's why he was such an incredible artist to see live because.

Oh yeah, he was almost all the time.

It was, you know, he would best the record, you know.

What's the last gig you did with him live even.

Even if it was like a jam in Minneapolis or whatever.

Oh wow.

Right?

Yeah, he had a party at his house in, in Hollywood.

Oh, the one he was renting?

Yeah.

And.

And me and Sonny, we were, yeah, we were gonna do play as a trio at the Conga Room.

And so we had just been jamming and one night he was like, hey, you know, I'm gonna invite some people over tonight, you know, you guys want to come back around?

You know, midnight, 1:00?

You know, we'll just, you know, we'll play a little bit.

Great.

Okay.

So yeah, we just gotta went for it, you know.

Yeah, that was.

Yeah, I mean it was always.

It was, it was.

Well, more often than not, it was.

It was a lot of fun.

But sometimes, you know, it's like that dude just.

He just kept ticking, you know, it's like it was if he ran, he just went at a superhuman pace, you know.

And the older you get, the older I got, you know, the more it was like, oh, all right, okay.

You know, going back to that job like on a regular basis, I like, I don't know if I, I would have even really had it in me.

You know, I mean you, you've got a physical job non stop.

And Prince, when he was doing splits and dancing like that, you guys probably punished yourselves.

Yeah, but I think just as much as anybody, sure, he, but he had slowed down later.

I was, yeah, there was going to be.

He.

We, Cassandra, me, Jubu Smith, who played with Frankie Beverly and Maze, just up until Frankie passed recently.

Okay.

And he also was in like Tony, Tony, Tony.

Oh, oh, he's a left hander, right?

No, you might be right.

But he like, I think he wrote or co.

Wrote Anniversary like a few songs with them.

Okay.

And Jubu's bad man, great guitar player.

So it was me and Jubu and Cassandra and Andrew Gusher, gospel bass player from.

Yeah, West Coast.

Prince was just like, I want a different.

I want to do a different band.

He had the other band.

Kirk was in the other band.

They were rehearsing in the sound stage.

We were rehearsing in Studio A.

And, you know, oh, this.

This was in his later years.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, he just.

Was.

It just.

I did.

I couldn't just kind of wait around for him to figure things out because I didn't know what to tell Soul Asylum.

We were.

I was.

You know, I had a job, and I would have had to have taken a hiatus from it to do whatever I was doing with Prince, but Prince just couldn't.

He's like, I just can't make up my mind how I'm.

How this is going to roll out.

And I said, well, you know, I'd love to be involved, man, but I.

I can't.

And he was.

He completely understood.

It's like, I.

I had a whole life to give you once, but, you know, I got responsibilities and duties now.

Right.

You know, he got it, you know, and he still came around.

He.

He was still coming around, bunker sitting in him.

And Larry would come in, and he let Larry get it kind of grooving.

And then he'd jump up, you know, grab Billy's guitar.

You know, he'd jump in on the funk.

After it got established.

I think I saw that video where.

There's a video up online about that.

I bet.

Yeah.

He'd figure out what Larry was playing.

I think one night we played Ain't no Fun to Me from the Grand Central Station debut album.

And Larry was trying to show everybody he was.

Larry was playing real quiet and tapping his foot, and he was trying to show the band where he was getting.

Getting ready to go.

He didn't know if they knew the song or not.

So he was just kind of running through the changes and kind of.

And I finally heard the turnaround.

And I said.

I said to the keyboard player, ain't no fun to me.

And, you know, and I think to Julius and Margaret, Ain't no fun to me.

I look back and look, and here's Larry getting ready to step on the distortion, like.

And so we just jumped in and I saw Prince.

I saw him literally jump out of his seat, right?

And he did the cool.

The cool run.

The cool jog to.

To the.

To the stage immediately as soon as he.

Oh, that's what y'all Playing, you know, he jumped right up and just funked in the corner.

Right in.

Yeah, he just wanted to catch a little bit.

That's what I really loved about him was, Was, you know, he enjoyed being, you know, a, A.

A superstar, but he also enjoyed just getting in on it, you know, And I, I really felt bad that he couldn't have more varied experience with different players.

Like, because he's Prince, he's going to draw attention to himself.

People are going to be affected by him just hanging around, you know, it's like he can't be a fly on the wall.

He's Prince.

Yeah.

You know, and so I always.

Yeah, I think that's why he liked coming down to buckets and just sitting in that corner, you know, just.

Just to catch a little bit, you know, just catch a little funk.

Yeah.

What's wrong with that?

You know?

That's right.

That's also why we jammed so much at Paisley too, you know.

Yeah.

You.

You and Sonny were warming up, jamming and everything, and Prince walks in the bay and stops and perks his ears, runs in and says, okay, yeah.

And you guys said.

Well, you said to Sunny.

Right, I remember.

Well, at that point, we just looked at each other because we knew, okay, that's another one we're not gonna get no money for.

But, I mean, what are you gonna do?

It's his house, his rules, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you can thank us for.

You can thank me and Sunny for PE control.

3121.

Right.

And Al, any.

Anymore, your pop go to zipper, right, Minnie Papa.

Well, you know, let's say as a boss.

And was he ever generous with compliments at all to.

To the guys and ladies?

Yeah, I mean, sure.

He was not.

Yes, he was.

He was complimentary if you played.

I mean, it was.

I mean, he was complimentary even during the gig.

You played something, he heard you.

You'd see him looking back like, yeah, man.

You know, in that.

In the dvd and.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

No, that's how we got down, man.

You know, it was.

That was happening on Stage.

If we.

If we were nasty, you know, he'd let everybody know.

I mean, you know, we had funk night, you know, all the.

Like, you know, whoever's the funkiest tonight.

200.

Right.

You know.

Right, yeah, that.

That we were talking about Diamonds of Pearl, that glam slam show.

That.

That pretty much was the first workout of the band in public on that.

That was a great, great performance.

And.

And then the night he jumped on that piano, the bar, during that medley you did.

That was the same night.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

No.

Oh, I thought you were talking about when he jumped on the bar and was dancing all hard around those people's drinks and.

What?

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was talking about.

I was like.

I didn't even know that I was around the corner.

I couldn't even see that happening.

I didn't, you know, at the gig, because the way the stage was set up, I was back in the corner and there was a wall.

Right.

So I didn't know what he was doing over there, but I could hear his.

He had his mic, you know.

Yeah, right.

But.

And then I saw the footage for the first time.

Like, wow, he's crazy.

I know.

Just that little narrow thing and, you.

Know, he's dancing like.

Like, Like a fiend.

Like he's committed, man.

He wasn't being careful.

He was full on out.

I was just looking like, oh, he's gonna slip.

He's gonna fall, you know, and then he's backing on the blonde right there.

Yeah, yeah, right, right, yeah, right at the.

He blew her mind.

Yeah.

Who.

Who.

Who was the.

The lady with the black hair in front of the stage.

Him and Tony, during the performance, kept on coming up and flirting with her and scare.

Not scaring her, staring at her.

I'm.

I don't.

I honestly don't remember.

It was just me and Sunny back in that corner, man.

Oh, okay.

See everything.

If you see the DVD part when Prince is like, right up there singing to her and.

And Tony comes up during the show, the same.

Same lady.

Okay.

Yeah.

I don't know, you know, I.

I haven't actually seen the DVD in its entirety, so.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So that.

That's our viewers to point her out if they know.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

That gig was actually.

See, when I.

I was like, now people can actually understand what the new power generation was, just how good that band was, you know?

I mean, that band was incredible.

I mean, I dare.

I.

I just feel like we were.

I.

I feel like we were better than everybody else.

That's my feeling.

It had.

It had excellence all over the stage.

I mean.

Yes.

Rosie, Levi, Sunny.

You know, I mean, it.

I don't know, man.

I mean, the fans has, you know, they're free to, you know, have feel whatever way they want to about it.

But the reality was, by the time he got to us, we were playing everything they had played already and some new stuff.

You know what I mean?

Like, we could.

We could play anything from the catalog.

You know, Is there, like, a camaraderie and all the drummers who play with Prince.

I know John Blackwell's no longer with.

Us, but John would come down the Bunker sometimes when he was in town, and, you know, we.

Like, I.

I met John actually when I was playing for Chaka Khan.

He was playing with Cameo, and we ended up on.

We ended up on the same gig, like a triple bill in Indianapolis.

Okay.

That was the first time I met John.

And we got.

We got along immediately.

Yeah, but.

I know.

Yeah, yeah, but I.

I was like, man, I said, Larry Blackman was, like, yelling at you the whole night.

He's like, man, that's just what he does, man.

Like, he just.

You know, I could see that Larry was talking to.

To John, you know, and while he was doing this, you know, he turned his back to the audience.

I see him.

People forget Larry Blackman is one of the tightest drummers who ever lived.

Right, right.

His standards are high.

You know, I gotta find.

I had John Blackwell on a bunch of times, and one time he broke down all the drummers who came before him with Prince, bro.

The.

I mean, he was complimenting of everybody from Bobby to.

Sure.

Up to yourself and Kirk and everything.

Yeah, yeah, man.

It's.

He.

He studied you guys like crazy.

Yeah.

Like, I had to study Sheila and Bobby.

Right.

You know, I had to.

It's like, okay, all right, I see.

You know.

But then, like, after the new tour, the technology that we were using completely changed.

So I was in a different.

I was in Bobby's position all over again.

I had, you know, like, samples and loops and, you know, electronic equipment that needed to be programmed and looked after and.

And integrated.

Like, I really.

That.

I really felt like Bobby.

Bobby had told me the story of coming to rehearsal and there's a limb machine and a bunch of Simmons pads.

It's like, what am I supposed to do with this?

You know, he had to figure out how to, you know, how to make it work, you know?

Right.

So, yeah, a lot of homework.

And so you.

You would show up to the studio and try to figure it out there.

Well, I mean, it just.

I mean, I.

They.

What.

What literally happened was Morris Hayes had a band that he was using.

He was using loops and samples already in.

And he.

He had become the good.

He was the keyboard player in the time for a little while, Morris was.

Oh, yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think Levi went over to one of Morris's rehearsals and heard all.

You know, he was.

Man, man, he came back to Prince.

He's like, man, they.

Man, they doing some mess, man.

They got.

They samples and loops.

They.

Man, they sound like Teddy Riley and them over there, you know.

So Prince was finally like, you know, well, show us, you know, like, have them come over.

So I think that's how it happened.

And.

And, you know, they.

They were using like, an elisa's drum machine to trigger the loops.

And I had already had the kill switch that was in my tech, in my electronic rig, so we just augmented it to do these loops.

Right.

And like, before that, like, we had behind me there was a LIN machine that was.

That I was using for samples on these Simmons pads.

Like, the stuff I was using was somewhat.

It was, I would say, primitive in relation to where we ended up going, you know, and it just.

It got more intense as we went.

As the band got smaller, the electronic aspect of things got bigger, you know, to the point where Tommy Barbarella, he took all of the Claire Fisher string samples and whatnot and.

And any sound effects.

And Morris had all the background vocal samples and.

And something else.

I don't remember.

Oh, I think the.

Oh.

Barbarella had the horn samples and the string samples.

Right.

Morris had the vocals and.

And a couple other things I don't remember right now, but we had to, you know, we were all, like, playing and I'm hitting pads.

Boris is playing, you know, vocal samples with his left hand while he's playing the organ with his right.

Barbarella's got the purple axon, which is the first wireless MIDI controller to ever be created or at least, you know, used by somebody like Pritz.

So he's.

And he's out on the.

You know, way out on the end of the stage with that purple ax, you know, playing, you know, everything.

Right.

I mean, it's.

It was crazy.

I mean, at least he was open.

He was open to that.

That kind of change.

Well, yes, but it's.

Unfortunately, what he wasn't open to was having a sequencer like everybody else was using.

Oh, okay.

That would have.

You guys were the sequencers.

Yeah, but I mean, you don't realize this.

What?

This.

I mean, because there was no sequencer or alternate source of time.

Like, I wasn't playing to a click or anything.

There was no, like, none of this.

Right.

I had to call these tempos out just off my.

Off the dome.

Like, I had to get the tempos in my bloodstream.

Wow.

You know, because not all the songs that we were doing had loops to them.

Some were just, you know, just us, you know, playing.

And Morris would still have to hit the background samples.

And I had started to watch him, like, because it's a hard thing to do.

I.

It's went on behind Prince's back.

He didn't really understand how me.

We made it work.

And he didn't really want to have a conversation about it.

He just.

Prince was the type of dude who's like, I gave you a task.

Figure it out.

You know, how long will it take you to figure it out?

He didn't really want to know the background of it.

But the reason we were so tight was because I was watching Morris's hands.

And if he said, if he happened to accidentally hit a sample too early or late, I'd wiggle the time a little bit.

I'd figure out a way to kind of compensate for it so it wasn't as noticeable.

And, you know, and Kirk didn't know that.

Prince didn't know that.

So when he switched to Kirk on drums, there was all this tension going on on that side of the stage.

Because, you know, certainly Morris didn't want to, you know, say anything negative about anybody.

Right, right.

You know, it's just that Kirk didn't know.

Nobody knew what my method was, like, how I made.

Made it all work.

And it was because most of it was internal.

It just certitude.

You know what I mean?

Like, you'd be surprised at what you can do when you're certain.

So that's.

Yeah, I saw.

I saw Kirk play drum sets for Prince, Shaka and Larry Graham in the same night.

He did three.

Yes.

But they had to develop a whole other system because nobody could work with what I was working with.

They weren't calling you up in the middle of the night, hey, how'd you do this?

How'd you do that?

I think that Prince would be too.

He'd be too proud, you know, say please.

But he kept asking, like, what's going.

He kept.

Well, what happened was he kept blaming Morris.

Like, why are you.

Why are those late?

Why is that sample late?

You know, why are you triggering that early?

And Then Morris finally took Prince aside when nobody was around.

It's like, listen, man, Bland used to watch my left hand like a hawk.

If I was late or early, he would.

You wouldn't even notice.

He just would move the time a little bit to cover it.

It's like, you can't ask Kirk or anybody else to just do that.

Right, right.

You know, and it was a.

It was a.

It was a process.

I got there, you know, and, you know, of course, Prince.

Yeah, like, you so supposed to have gotten there.

That's your job to get there.

So he took it for granted until I, you know, I wasn't there.

And then, you know, once they got that straightened out, there he was like, okay, no more of that.

No, no, none of that.

So they went kind of all natural for a little while, or they.

They just initiated a different way to work through things, you know.

Let me ask you about the Prince tours.

I mean, he was always changing things on the fly and his.

His moods for different things, Recordings and tours.

Were there any tours that stick out in your mind?

You were like, damn, I wish this would have gone on longer.

Or we had hit the States or taken it here.

Oh, man.

All.

All the time.

I mean, after we did the Arsenio hall show the first time in 91, in September of 91, I think it was, or October, one of the two.

But we had been talking about the Diamonds and Pearls United States tour before that.

That was what they were talking about, like, do Arsenio, you know, start the next year on the road.

And, you know, it went so well.

We were at.

At Prince's house watching it in his house in la, watching the show, and it finished.

And, you know, man, that was.

That was hot, man.

You know, Chris was congratulating himself and the rest of us.

And.

And I say, so what are we going on tour?

Like, when we, you know, when does the tour start?

And Prince's response was like, we just played to 50 million people.

You know, you asking about a tour and it slowly.

He just kind of, you know, just got.

He was just off the idea of do.

Of taking.

Of doing the Diamonds and Pearls tour in the States.

We did Japan and Australia and Europe.

Right.

Didn't do the States on the Diamonds and Pearl Store.

We did do Jack the rapper in 91.

Oh, down in Atlanta, which was.

That was some really crazy mess because I didn't really understand how down black people were for Prince.

Right.

You know, but he kind of.

I mean, but also, to be fair, I mean, get off was a single at the time.

Right.

And, you know, so, I mean.

And, you know, he was.

I don't want to say pandering, but I think he was.

Things were noticeably headed in a more urban direction.

You know, that WBLS airplay Frankie Kroc.

I don't know if Frankie was still doing his thing, but, yeah, could have been.

But, yeah.

So, I mean, it's like we got to Jack the Rapper, and it's like bowlegged.

Lou from.

Oh, yeah.

Full force.

Yeah.

He's like, in the third row with his girlfriend with his arms folded, just mad, just watching us, you know, it wasn't until Purple Rain we saw something kind of.

Kind of like, oh, okay.

But his.

Like, when we started, his woman jumped up, and he did one of those.

If you don't sit, you know, she sat right down.

I went to a Prince.

This never happened at a print show, but it was in Connecticut.

I went to see with Larry Graham opened up.

Oh, yeah.

And I think it was the Emancipation Tour.

But anyways, it was in Connecticut at the Oakdale Theater.

Two songs in Everybody's Standing, then Prince place, Purple Rain, the third song I'd never seen at a.

A Prince crown.

People sit down, and we're still standing.

And I was like, what's going on here?

I never seen that happen at that show.

What year was that?

Do you know?

Do you remember?

98.

Maybe.

I could be.

Maybe it was a.

Maybe it was because you were there till 96.

Tor.

Yeah, I think we.

We got our walking papers in, like, March of 96.

Yeah.

Kath Dyson was there.

Marva King and Awesome.

Yeah.

That's the only Prince show that people were sitting during a show for a decent portion.

I said, whoa, this was in what.

What city?

It was in Connecticut.

The Wallingford, Connecticut, just outside New Haven.

Huh.

But okay.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, it's.

Yeah.

I'm sure he wondered what was.

What was up with that.

Yeah.

Maybe said I should save Purple Rain for the end.

Like, I usually do not.

Yeah, maybe it was too soon.

Like.

Yeah, he probably was.

You know.

Know, it's funny.

Yeah.

You can't.

I mean, sometimes we.

Man, we.

You know, how many shows where we did.

Where we start with the encore, like, we did that at Wembley, like, more than once.

Like, we just cut right to Party man on the new tour.

Like, you know, just start with Party man and then go into, like, the future.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't know why he.

You know, I don't know what that was about necessarily.

Necessarily.

But, yeah, that was A great sequence right there with the, the dancing and.

Yeah, yeah, Let me.

Since you're on that topic about flipping the script, how difficult was it when you had no clue where he was going and what was your secret to staying?

Staying alongside him, running, you know, those changes with the band.

Be quiet and listen.

Okay.

What was the, the most important thing a musician working for Prince can do is learn how to listen.

You know, a lot of people, I've seen a few people when he's trying to show them something and they would like, he'd be on the keyboard going, okay, it goes like this, and he start playing.

And sometimes people have a tendency to jump in and try to like, okay, where's he at?

Well, you know, he'd hear them kind of fumbling, trying to find where he's at, and he'd stop playing.

He'd say, listen first.

Ah, okay.

Listen to what I'm playing.

Don't try to, you know, like, understand it before you put your hand down.

You know, you'll get there close.

You get there sooner if you just listen, you know?

How about yourself as a drummer?

Have you done a lot?

I, I did, I wanted to talk about something.

But did.

Have you done mentorship and, and, and teaching on other drummers or clinics?

You know, I don't think of myself as a strong soloist and, you know, it's, I don't care to do it.

And I know that a lot of people who come to like, drum clinics are like, okay, man, shredded, you know, uhhuh.

Like, just, you know, like, that's not really my style.

I play to support the music.

That's, that's where my head's at.

And when I was, you know, at the height of my sort of, you know, commercial, you know, I was on MTV on a regular basis and whatnot.

Right.

You know, I, I, I, I think I shied away from doing those things because most of the instructional videos I had seen in the clinics I had gone to, there were cats who basically, you know, they had a lot of chops and, you know, they were playing for drummers.

And I don't play for drummers.

I play, I, I play for the band.

Ignoring that.

More than that, I play for the dance floor.

You know what I mean?

Right.

That's what it is for me.

And it's like, I got, you know, I got a couple, I got a chop here and a chop there, and I use them sparingly, you know, you know, but mostly I'm there for cohesion.

I'm there to, to make the music better.

I'm not there to show everybody what I've been working on in my, you know, basement.

Well, one thing that I.

I caught not too long ago, when you were at McNally Smith and you.

You did like a question answer, and you were jamming with Johannes.

That was the first time in a long time I've done a clinic.

Yeah.

Jeff Lee Johnson, you know who.

Yeah, yeah.

Great.

Great guy.

He came to your studio back.

Yeah, twice.

And I wanted to ask you a question because you've done radio studio performances, and for me, the drums were always, like.

I had to tell the drummers.

I.

I don't mean to say this, but can you play a little soft, like Max Rose with the brushes kind of feel?

Yeah.

But when Jeff came in the first time, I might have told you the story.

He came in from Philly, and he came in with Ted Thomas on drums and Chico Huff on bass.

Those cats, man.

And I said, oh, Jeff, you want to do a sound check?

He says, no, no, we're just plugging in.

Just start playing.

So I didn't realize Ted Thomas the drums.

I didn't even have a mic, but it was like a drum showcase for him.

When we listened to it back, he's like, well, Ted, you got a nice spotlight there.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

But no, it's still.

Jeff and Chico sounded great, but we.

What?

What?

Is there a secret to get the drum sounding not overriding everybody else in a radio studio?

No.

You have to play quiet.

Oh, okay.

I mean, if you watch any of those tiny desk performances.

Yeah.

That you see drummers using, like, you know, brushes, blast sticks, hot rods, you know, any of that.