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Let's Self-care Together- part 2
Episode 2 • 11th December 2023 • Being the Work • Ben Wire and Blakely Adams
00:00:00 00:39:26

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In this episode we focus on authenticity and compassion for each other and ourselves through facing resilience, acknowledging personal limitations, seeking help, and the impacts of external factors like ADHD and societal expectations. We touch on stories about burnout, dealing with personal traumas, learning about diagnosis of ADHD. We highlight the importance of honesty, acceptance and change in the pursuit of self-care. We agree to offer self-care challenges each other in episode 3 episode.

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Transcripts

Ben:

Hi, everyone.

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Welcome back.

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Being the Work is all about bringing

our journeys of self care and supporting

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each other as helping professionals.

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to possibly support you along the journey.

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We all have this journey towards self

care, trying to give some more humanity

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to that term And, uh, you know,

be able to see one another as human

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beings and, be able to do our job in

a way that we enjoy doing our work,

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bringing meaning back to what we do.

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This is part two of a conversation

we started last episode.

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We are so happy to be with you today.

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today we're talking about what's

been happening to us since we

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started the podcast So we, uh,

really appreciate you being with us.

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We want to hear from you.

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send us an email.

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gmail.

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com.

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You'd also get in touch with us

on Instagram at beingthework and

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on LinkedIn at that same handle.

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We also just started a

Patrion we're just a.

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Getting together, a community of

professional helpers who want to

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get some support from one another.

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So go check us out.

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patrion.com/being the work.

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If you also would like to

support our podcast, you can go

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to, being the work.com/support

and you can leave us a tip.

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There doing that or the Patrion

would really help us just,

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you know, pay for some of the

platforms that we use for this.

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We do this just out of pocket and we . really care about what we're doing.

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Also, you could go to any of

the listening apps that you use.

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And leave us a positive review

that would really help yeah.

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Ben: so

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let's go ahead and jump right on in.

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Blakely: tomorrow will mark

three years since I quit

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Ben: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Okay.

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So

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Blakely: of notice

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Ben: that is dead center of,

COVID, we were still social

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distancing from everything.

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Blakely: Right.

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Ben: I had moved home to do

work from home, and I've never

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been back, since then, man.

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There have been, traumatic wounds, I

want to say, has like been the big thing.

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Like, con regular, regular, like,

shocks to my nervous system with,

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Blakely: have been thrown down to

the gauntlet of Test your limit.

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Kind of life

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Ben: it's been a lot.

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Blakely: A few times.

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Yeah, it's not like you're going through

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one episode one incident one event

kind of thing Like you've had things

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stack these last few years that

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Ben: yeah, no, I was like,

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Blakely: fueled this

process in a different way

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Ben: yeah, so I had, some pretty

close family members that, um, one went

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through a pretty big abusive situation

drug abuse to cope with it and got

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really down and was considering suicide.

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I found all of this out later after

they reached out to me and, they were

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asking if they could come live with me.

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And I was like, of course, absolutely.

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I don't know what's going on

with you exactly, but let's go.

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And, at the same time when I was

talking to this family member, another

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family member was basically dying.

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had to go to the hospital, and

then ended up staying with us.

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And so we didn't have room,

but also I felt terrible.

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I just felt absolutely terrible.

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Having to choose between

who am I going to help?

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But, you know, I, I got them hooked up

with folks and it was a better situation.

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So learning just that about my family,

and then also having some near death,

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like hospital experiences in the middle

of the pandemic, without being able to

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go see them at the hospital or even know

what was going on, that was really hard.

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Um, I was in the middle of a, of a

suicide assessment with a client and

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heard a huge fall and thought this family

member who had just gotten out of the

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hospital fell down the stairs, which is

right next to my, my door to my office.

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So that was incredible dissonance,

like trying to figure out who do I

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take care of in a very huge, what

I felt was very much life or death.

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For both people.

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That's a bigger story for later maybe.

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Yeah, same family member passed out.

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I had to do some like first aid stuff.

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Blakely: Well, and I think if I'm, I

think that if people have been sort

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of along this ride with us, they'll be

familiar with a couple of these steps,

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but maybe not aware of everything else

that's going on around it while you're

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trying to deal with managing a very

sick family member and everything else.

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Ben: yeah, it all sort of led to.

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just this, you gotta get real about taking

care of yourself, and putting boundaries

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and limits to what you do and what you,

how, how much you give, how much I give,

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which led me to be a little bit more

transparent and honest with my caseload

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about what I could do and what I couldn't.

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And, It was very freeing,

but very difficult.

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Blakely: that's probably what I'm

speaking to when I'm saying like those

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influences changed this pathway for you

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Ben: Mm hmm.

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Blakely: in some healthy ways.

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Like That was a pullback that you

needed to do anyway, and didn't

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know how, and didn't feel in doing.

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Even the circumstances

you were in, where it was,

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Ben: Right

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Blakely: like, inarguably

what you had to do.

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Ben: yeah, I've never had anybody

supervisor or peer ever show me what was,

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or even like, give me an example to look

at when it comes to something like this.

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It was so unique I had just

moved into private practice.

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I lost some cases after COVID hit because

they didn't want to do telehealth.

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I'm really just getting

at my finances, right?

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Like, what am I going to do?

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Cause if I don't see

people, I don't get paid.

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so then I had to just be

honest and go, you know what?

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Um, Money is not the thing I'm going

to have to give up some stuff I have

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to cut some things out because I need

to get paid less to even survive.

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I will I was, I was barely hanging on.

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So I did that and I sent out a big

letter to my, my full caseload.

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I consulted with the owners of our

practice and, Just was honest about

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what was going on some generalities,

not like super specific, but just

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like, particularly the main line was,

I will be canceling, on very late

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notice and I, in advance, apologize.

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Blakely: Yeah, I already

know that will happen.

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I don't like

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Ben: I can't avoid it.

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I am so sorry.

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We'll help you get with somebody

else if you need If you need to

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switch, that's perfectly fine.

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You and it was about 50 50.

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some people were like,

no, no, no, we're waiting.

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We're here with you.

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And then other people were like, yeah,

no, this just works out better to move on.

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And, You know, that was hard to not

think that's a moral failing, which is

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weird, of course, to say it out loud,

but the emotional truth of it all was

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just like a gut punch, particularly when

you're you're not very self compassionate

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and you're not really knowing You're,

you're not honoring the fact that

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you're human and do you have limits?

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Blakely: talking about

synthesizing you actually are.

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we take work home, we have to live it.

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I brought what I do to where I

live, and I think that's, that

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was just by, by some chance the

test that was thrown down for you

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Ben: talking, you're talking not

just taking your work home and

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living the things you say to your

clients, but you're talking about

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doing work from home and that stark

difference, like there was very little,

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Blakely: automatic

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Ben: that separate like

you wanted to, like,

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Blakely: that layer of private was ripped

off, not all it, but that first layer,

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just like,

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Ben: but the stark difference.

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Yeah, no, you used to be

able to drive 30 40 minutes.

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To get into the home mode

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Blakely: in a different

state than where I lived.

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Ben: In the pandemic you had five

seconds to move from work to home because

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Blakely: is bombarding

into work all the time.

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Ben: Like you noticed a lot of

Compartmentalization that you were

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Blakely: Man, it my face.

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It face.

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In the way that like, this isn't working.

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This isn't working anymore.

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it worked.

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Maybe.

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Maybe it worked.

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It

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Ben: So you've been, quit that job,

and then you got another one and you

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quit that one, and what what, happened?

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Blakely: So I quit working full time.

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Moved home to work remotely.

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I got an opportunity pretty

quickly to work part time, which

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is what I was seeking remotely

from It's what I was seeking

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Ben: Mm hmm, mm

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Blakely: because of the money stuff.

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Ben: hmm.

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Blakely: and then, so that role was one

that was a little bit more self directed.

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I felt pretty good about that.

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But then, they were taking, let me

just be very clear, I was working for

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a primary care situation where I was

treating sort of short term counseling

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for their clients, finding resources,

doing some coping skills work, the basics.

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tHis organization had a lot

of issues with paying me.

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I was waiting two to three

months to get my monthly invoices

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paid out, which wasn't working.

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The reinforcement for what I was

doing, while I was realizing just how

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burned out I was, just how my human

had deteriorated and was suffering.

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And I had patched up all of those

little bullet holes with a bunch of band

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aids of taking care of other people.

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And if other people are doing their work,

then that's like me doing work by proxy.

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Like all

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Ben: right, right.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Blakely: It took, and that was

like, oh, and I was playing hundreds

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of hours of Animal Crossing.

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Um,

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Ben: Right.

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Blakely: and not leaving my And so it was,

and negotiating, trying to figure out if I

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was going to have to school my children at

home because this like pre school age that

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was sort of in between what was happening

with K through 12 kids, but I wasn't fully

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able to just take care of babies at home.

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For me, the timeline was this collision

course of who these two different

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versions of me I thought I had juggled

and balanced that it beautiful balance of

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Ben: really started synthesis

like really a journey

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Blakely: the lanes merged and here we are

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Ben: saying it earlier

like just a second ago.

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You said my human was I don't know I

think you're talking about burnt out and

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I was yeah, you're treating yourself like

a little homunculus inside your own head

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Handling your own Android like you're

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Blakely: and Ben, I'm talking about

three years, but I feel like just in this

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year, the last months, I felt like those

two people are talking to each other.

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They have met, they have fought, they have

not wanted to see each other, I shove them

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together and they, they like pop apart.

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Finally, I feel like these two versions

of me can sit in the same room.

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And figure out what to do because

just this week, I had this experience

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of realizing I'm doing a new thing

that requires me to use much of the

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kind of energy that I use in, not in

one on one social work, but in the

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bigger environments of social macro

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is coming out and realizing that my

wife and kids don't see her much.

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So I'm like, I'm using a voice and

using an energy and leading something,

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guiding something, directing something.

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And my children and my wife were like,

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Ben: What's this?

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Who's this?

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Well, especially your kids.

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Well, I guess all of them, right?

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Because, I mean, they never got

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Blakely: kind of startled.

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Yeah.

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Ben: Yeah.

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They never got to see it.

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See her.

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Blakely: So, I'm, I'm using

it in different places.

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I'm telling myself, while I'm

practicing this in my real life,

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Bitch, you are the same per sorry, I'm

trying not to use that word derogatorily

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anymore, but you are the same person?

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Because I feel more self doubt

being a leader in my personal

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life I do professionally.

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The things about my personality that make

me difficult make social work very easy.

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They don't make life all that easy.

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don't make relationships,

personal relationships,

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I know all of these things about

myself instinctually, and I've

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trained myself out of a lot of them

to be more palatable as a woman.

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Ben: hmm.

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Mm.

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Blakely: And work, the work

that, yeah, believe it or not.

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You've also seen spaces

where I, I don't turn it off.

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Ben: No, I've seen

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Blakely: and I have been crisis

stuff where I don't turn shit off.

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I have to be very hard, very direct, Most

intense version of but there are parts of

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that that I think are actually skillful

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Ben: Of

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Blakely: that I let me back this

up a lot of what I did the first

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two years that I quit working full

time was unleashing most of it.

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I'm not making myself be anyone.

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not forcing it.

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I'm not.

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I'm not putting on that hat.

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I won't

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Ben: No, I remember conversations.

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I remember the conversations

of burnout recovery.

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We both in that place of actually

looking at how exhausted...

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We both were and I remember, I mean, that,

that was a big moment for me at least

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to, to offer the, I don't know, Ferdinand

to you and try to like, like you were

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just saying earlier about your clients,

if they're growing, then I'm growing

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If I could offer it to you, then

I knew you would offer it to

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me and I would grow by proxy.

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And it wasn't until two and a

half years or more later that I

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actually get this connection of,

you can be Ferdinand to yourself.

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Blakely: We've

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Ben: training for this thousands of

hours in facilitating therapy to give

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space to people, to honor people.

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You for yourself.

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Oof.

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Ugh.

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Sounds so simple.

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And...

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Blakely: I think this may also be so

attached to the Enneagram for a little bit

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is it reminds me of the things that I Like

about me are my instincts other people

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don't always like and a lot of being in

the work and especially the work that we

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had to do where we saw whoever showed up.

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And seriously, I mean, it's

just who walks in the door.

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That was the nature of a

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Ben: Constant pop quiz.

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Constant

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Blakely: constant and

constant shifting of what

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Ben: Mm

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Blakely: I need to bring to it.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: To be what I need to be.

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Ben: it's

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Blakely: would drive into

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Ben: vigilance.

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Blakely: of course.

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But I would drive into work, I would park,

and I would do that mantra of, let me be

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who they need me to be today, and just do

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Ben: hmm

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Blakely: in a, in a push that

was just turn on the faucet and

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And I'm revisiting that sense of, just do

the next thing in a much more gentle way.

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getting lost in, what does someone

else What do I need to do next?

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What is, no, just what

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is my body, and my mind, and my life, and

those who I have gifted my responsibility

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Ben: What's changed?

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Like, why, what, what

helped you be more gentle?

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So I'm just thinking that's not an

eight trait from what I was reading.

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Blakely: with myself?

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Ben: Yeah.

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To go slower rather than faster,

to be more gentle than aggressive,

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Blakely: don't,

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I

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Ben: be more patient than urgent.

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Blakely: it sounds that way, but I don't

know that internally it's any of that.

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Ben: Okay.

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I

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Blakely: It is more not more it's more...

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It's the more authentic thing because

I'm looking instincts and I know they're

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within me and I've done so much to like

counteract them in order it's the same

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thing I'm talking about that I was talking

about earlier about choosing my words.

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Like I that reflexively, but sometimes

what I mean is fuck off, but I say

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it in a way that is respectful.

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And what I did for a couple of

years was stripped down most

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of that to just let it all go.

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I'm going to be as much of what

I just, what I feel like being.

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And now I feel like I've let myself do

enough of that without the discipline of

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it actually being good for me, but I'm

doing more of just what's good for me.

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And if what I'm saying is I like who I am

instinctually, I like who I am internally.

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I started this process saying, I don't

recognize everything inside of my head.

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Where that used to be what

was most comfortable, familiar

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sanctuary for me, I need that back.

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And so some of that requires not

even really slowness or gentleness

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probably to someone else.

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But to me, yes, probably some of it.

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Ben: That's what I was thinking.

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That's where I was coming from.

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Because.

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Blakely: have to hide from me

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Ben: Right.

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Blakely: Because I can take it.

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It's the whole point.

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I don't even know if any

of this makes any sense.

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Ben: No, it makes sense to me.

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Like, When I asked what's changed

To have you act more gently,

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slower, more patient, like that

kind of stuff, like, it is,

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Blakely: I don't have to prove.

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Ben: relativity to you, because you

are, you're intense, you're passionate,

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you, You operate with a lot of

urgency, and change is, change is not

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something that you're patient with.

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I mean, I'm talking for yourself, or

for the people that you're like closest

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to in terms of living life together

with them, if they're intruding on your

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space all the time, like I've never

felt like you,, come at me like that,

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but I don't have to live with you.

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I swear if we lived together, like,

we would we would have to have

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other ends of a place to be, like,

you're not allowed in my space, I'm

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not allowed in yours, because we

would not live well together, but,

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uh,

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Blakely: No,

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Ben: but like, yeah, for sure, but like,

Something shifted, like, something shifted

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for you to be more permissive of yourself,

be more accepting of yourself, to, um,

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really let these conflicting parts meet

without a ton of, oppositional energy.

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And like

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Blakely: agree on is that

conflict isn't the problem.

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Ben: yeah, I think the energy, the

dynamic of it all is, more accepting

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and, and slower, more gentle, more

permissive, more compassionate,

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Blakely: Well and less,

just less defensive.

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I don't, I just don't need it

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Ben: right?

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Blakely: because if I cultivate what

I need, I don't have to prove that or

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defend that to or from anyone else.

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I have what I need here because

I've made it so, and I've made the

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choices of who I'm connected to that.

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My safety net is intact.

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Ben: It's interesting because it reminds

me of, , the two different sort of

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routes we've taken to address some

of our own stuff, , to try to embrace

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more, , authenticity, And genuineness.

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Blakely: You mean how you're

not choosing yoga and shrooms?

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Ben: Yeah, yeah, yeah, where I'm,

I'm more like, you know, I'm going

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to go do therapy and, I'm going to

be in therapy and I'm going to do my

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mindfulness and yeah, a lot of journaling.

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Blakely: I still, I mean, because I

have to admit that I still haven't

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done, I haven't done individual therapy.

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I've

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Ben: Oh, also,

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Blakely: some,

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Ben: sure.

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Right, right, right.

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Sure.

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Blakely: and I mean I've had.

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Her, our slash her therapist is

a long term person in our lives.

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So I have connected with therapy

without individual therapy, if

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I'm being 100 percent honest.

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and I don't, I don't like the word should

because it makes me automatically not.

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Should equals won't to me, but

in an objective way, I still

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probably, I still should.

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And I'm trying to get my thought

around the why not other than simple

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avoidance because I don't know.

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I feel like it's more than that.

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Ben: Well

386

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Blakely: that I keep harping on

that I want me connected to me.

387

:

And I understand, of course, I

understand the value of an outside person

388

:

participating in that alongside me.

389

:

Ben: well, I mean, come

390

:

Blakely: I just not,

391

:

Ben: listen, listen, I'm gonna

392

:

Blakely: what the

393

:

Ben: in because look, the, the should

of it all, like, I, I feel your energy

394

:

shifting into the should of it all.

395

:

and I'm like, no, let's stop because

there is a, there is a defensiveness

396

:

that you were just talking about

that holds that energy of not being.

397

:

open and honest with yourself and

willing to have this authenticity.

398

:

And with that, what we're talking

about is like who we are being real

399

:

with ourselves and being honest.

400

:

And so the, the honest part

is that you don't trust people

401

:

Blakely: Yeah.

402

:

And what I'm thinking about is

403

:

Ben: to earn

404

:

Blakely: of getting there with someone

else in order to get there with

405

:

seems so long and so hard and has

in this of time to the point that,

406

:

yeah, I just haven't committed.

407

:

I haven't committed to it.

408

:

Ben: and, and for me seen through

that lens is incredibly relatable.

409

:

How many times have I told you, I wish

I could see myself for my therapist,

410

:

like I want me as my therapist,

411

:

Blakely: Yes!

412

:

Yes.

413

:

Ben: like, and, and I've also given you

examples of how I've done that for myself.

414

:

It's, it's psychotic.

415

:

What, what does it come down to?

416

:

Oh, trust.

417

:

Like, when you know how, the sauce is

made, you have a fucking preference,

418

:

Blakely: Well, and, so we have two things

419

:

Ben: So there's two layers

420

:

Blakely: way

421

:

Ben: You don't trust people in the

first place, I swear, we're speaking

422

:

to people, people's insides right now.

423

:

People who are professional helpers

know what it's like to know the

424

:

truth of our peers and go, Ooh, I

don't know that I trust that person.

425

:

Because we all have acted a bit like

assholes to each other at times.

426

:

And then there are some people that are

just more, more often untrustworthy.

427

:

Blakely: Well, it.

428

:

, I know, the, I have the

memories of being the therapist.

429

:

As much as I would be okay with me

being my therapist, theoretically,

430

:

Ben: right, and you know

431

:

Blakely: would yeah, I failed me

and I would have said, fuck that.

432

:

Immediately.

433

:

And so if I know that about me, who

I know and and I'm saying that I

434

:

appreciate and like as a person and a

clinician, and I know that I would say

435

:

fuck you to me, definitely gonna say

fuck you to everybody else, so soon

436

:

that it's going to defeat the purpose.

437

:

Ben: it is very much an eight to

trust themselves and to know that all

438

:

they have is themselves or, believe

that all they have is themselves and

439

:

Blakely: to my certainty

is at least, yeah.

440

:

Ben: only keep a few

trusted people around.

441

:

if you would say fuck you to

you, you know, for certain

442

:

you're going to say fuck you to.

443

:

Other people very quickly.

444

:

I mean, how long did it

take you to trust me?

445

:

And as I ask you that I'm like,

Oh shit, I don't know that you do.

446

:

Blakely: much what level,

like, that's black and

447

:

white.

448

:

Ben: Thank you.

449

:

Okay.

450

:

That's exaggerated,

451

:

but

452

:

Blakely: where

453

:

Ben: what I'm getting

454

:

Blakely: At work?

455

:

Ben: what I'm getting at is like,

you didn't like me at first,

456

:

like, well, I was reading this,

like, nice people are suspicious.

457

:

Was a line in this book that I was

reading nice people are suspicious.

458

:

Blakely: About eights?

459

:

Ben: I know you're yeah No, no, no eights

think that nice people are suspicious

460

:

Blakely: Of course nice people are

461

:

Ben: And, and so, I think you told

me one time, or maybe you said it on

462

:

the podcast, like, that uh, I looked

like, and acted like a, a youth pastor.

463

:

Blakely: mean, it didn't help that

you were literally talking about

464

:

Christian rap the first time that

465

:

Ben: that's that's

466

:

Blakely: It's a tough

first impression on me.

467

:

Sorry, man.

468

:

Ben: no, yeah,

469

:

Blakely: Sorry, not sorry, right?

470

:

Ben: no, that's, that was

the, it reminds me of.

471

:

Info dumping, just what I, you that,

hey, guess what I learned, kind of thing.

472

:

Just guess what

473

:

Blakely: Yeah, but we both love that.

474

:

That is the bond.

475

:

Ben: what's happened to us

also, uh, in the last few years.

476

:

Uh, we have also come to the

conclusion, and I actually got assessed.

477

:

Welcome to the ADHD

478

:

Blakely: I could at least

approach that, probably.

479

:

Ben: I am, I am taking medication for

it and I am in therapy, uh, to deal, to

480

:

deal, to deal with the adjustment of that.

481

:

No, I didn't realize the, just how.

482

:

in the clouds I was, and that that

was actually, hey, you bump into

483

:

things all the time, you know,

hey, you drop things all the time.

484

:

Hey, you, uh,

485

:

Blakely: Misplaced

486

:

Ben: and you, you misplace things.

487

:

You walk into rooms and you forget

why you weren't going in there.

488

:

Yeah.

489

:

Yikes.

490

:

So anyways, that was fun.

491

:

It

492

:

Blakely: Welcome to the world

of attention regulation.

493

:

Ben: Yeah.

494

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

495

:

that was, it's, it is enlightening

and it's kind of fun to know.

496

:

I think it's also, of course at

the same time, tough to adjust to,

497

:

Blakely: Yeah.

498

:

Because I think actually some of that

realization about how my regulation

499

:

of time and attention contributes

to everything that absolutely was

500

:

really striking because I was afraid

that it created my personality.

501

:

And then.

502

:

As that settles in to be a likelihood of

what makes me feel different sometimes

503

:

from other people contributed to

this gentleness that I think you're

504

:

perceiving that I felt this contrast

of who I am and what my instincts are

505

:

and then what quote unquote just seems

to happen with things falling out of my

506

:

mind or falling off of my schedule or.

507

:

You know, getting so fixated on

something and then not being able

508

:

to see it through to completion.

509

:

And these elements that don't seem

to resonate with all of these other

510

:

things that make up, quote unquote,

who I am, what personality is.

511

:

But then, the overlap of those

things and where they all come out.

512

:

Cause I even read the, the descriptions

of Eights, and there's some like,

513

:

This determination to meet your goals

and be so ambitious, and, and, yeah!

514

:

I did a lot of that, and then

I burned out, and I said, Fuck

515

:

that, it's not making me happy,

you're giving me a whole lot back.

516

:

I'm gonna move over here.

517

:

where the superpower of

unplugging actually benefits me.

518

:

I can choose to rip the plug on

something instead of it just suddenly

519

:

feeling like it happens to me.

520

:

I have found an empowerment in...

521

:

Some of that isn't my fault.

522

:

It's not that I'm choosing it.

523

:

It's not that I'm self sabotaging.

524

:

not that I'm just an asshole

who doesn't text people back.

525

:

Which sometimes I'm an

asshole who doesn't back.

526

:

Sometimes I'm this, and sometimes

I'm that, and all of it is who I am.

527

:

my point.

528

:

And it's all okay.

529

:

Because it gives me things and it takes

things away from me and part of this

530

:

process has been a grief of reaching

Something approaching middle age

531

:

being really in adulting I will never

know everything I want to know or do

532

:

everything I want to do But I can be

a really good version of me, and have

533

:

a really fucking good life I focus on

what I can do, and not what I can't.

534

:

Ben: Yeah.

535

:

it's um, I don't know, like I'm

working on my dissertation and, what

536

:

I'm wanting to do is explore, who

we are authentically, from, from

537

:

the just existential philosophy

stuff, like authenticity is honesty.

538

:

Blakely: Mmhmm.

539

:

Ben: open to what's there, what's real,

and not shoving any reality aside.

540

:

And my lived experience is when

I am compassionate, which means

541

:

accepting and courageous, because

that's when I'm most authentic.

542

:

Compassion opens us up to our

own pain and the of others.

543

:

And that's authentic.

544

:

it's looking at the actual humanness

of it all, like, that we're complex,

545

:

we're whole, we're interconnected, we

can't, when we try to disconnect from

546

:

parts of ourselves, parts of reality, I

mean, we split, we split, and, and, ugh,

547

:

anyways, whatever, I'm getting into this.

548

:

Too far.

549

:

Blakely: I mean, I've treated a lot

of borderline personality disorder,

550

:

like, I'm relatively well versed in

teaching people not to split themselves.

551

:

Middle path, wise mind.

552

:

Come on.

553

:

How can we hide from ourselves so

hard that exactly what we're doing is

554

:

we need?

555

:

Ben: exactly.

556

:

and it's and when you try to, when

you try to hold that synthesis

557

:

together or even do the synthesis

work, it's really fucking hard.

558

:

Blakely: oh yeah, it's

559

:

Ben: because the world, especially

our society and the mental health

560

:

system really doesn't care.

561

:

It doesn't want us to be whole.

562

:

Blakely: Okay, can we also admit

that that's the other part of why

563

:

I don't want to fucking do it?

564

:

I don't want to deal with

what my insurance is going

565

:

to give me as an option.

566

:

don't want to deal that after two

or three whoever this rando is

567

:

will probably be like, well, you're

pretty healthy, are you about done?

568

:

Ben: hmm.

569

:

Blakely: I can't.

570

:

Ben: Well.

571

:

Blakely: I won't.

572

:

so good, man.

573

:

Ben: Well.

574

:

Exactly.

575

:

That's why.

576

:

Like, it's about why.

577

:

Right?

578

:

You have to have a good enough reason to

do it, and also at the same time, you're

579

:

convincing yourself it's gotta be so good,

but also at the same time, It's about

580

:

you being honest with what you need, and

it's the, the support you have around

581

:

you to accept you and challenge you.

582

:

Right?

583

:

Just because you're a therapist doesn't

mean that you have any other needs than

584

:

an actual human being that we, we help,

And so, no, you, I don't, nobody should

585

:

want you to go to therapy just because.

586

:

Blakely: God, man, this is so much of what

I'm talking about is like, I'm trying to

587

:

greet these natural things about me that

so much of our system, the world, our

588

:

society, whatever tells me isn't right.

589

:

And then I'm trying to counterbalance

that with my instincts to avoid

590

:

and seek comfort and escape.

591

:

And also.

592

:

I am making intentional effort to

lean into those things that I know

593

:

make me feel better and whole and

more comfortable and more spiritual.

594

:

And how do I know that

I am, how do I know?

595

:

Ben: How do

596

:

Blakely: How

597

:

do I know I'm not just avoiding?

598

:

And that's, that's, this is my process.

599

:

so much of what I have learned

is to not trust the things

600

:

that are so simple about me.

601

:

Ah, shit.

602

:

I don't

603

:

Ben: I think that's the thing,

like, you're, uh, that, that

604

:

sounds like, the dialectic change.

605

:

And so, what's the counterbalance?

606

:

Where's the acceptance?

607

:

that's a needed...

608

:

entity of change.

609

:

And you're talking about

what does change look like?

610

:

Okay, cool.

611

:

and what's

612

:

Blakely: what asking

613

:

Ben: the acceptance?

614

:

What's

615

:

Blakely: how do I know that

I'm growing is the actual point

616

:

Ben: you've already

answered that question.

617

:

Blakely: I think so.

618

:

Ben: You've already

answered that question.

619

:

And I feel like I'm sensing the, the the

of should and that's typically judgment

620

:

and

621

:

Blakely: Well, yeah, cause that's

what I feel so exposed to is, well,

622

:

it's the judgment of this thing that I

said I was going to do and I haven't,

623

:

and that feels like plenty of other

624

:

Ben: Yeah.

625

:

Fuck you.

626

:

What the fuck's your

problem, Like I don't know,

627

:

Blakely: We had a whole

628

:

Ben: to put words, what's

that look on your face that,

629

:

Blakely: I do my voice.

630

:

It's fun.

631

:

Ben: yeah.

632

:

Ah, you're such a fucking stupid

633

:

Blakely: we did a whole fucking

episode about how badly I should

634

:

go to therapy and then I didn't.

635

:

Right.

636

:

this is just, this is an absolutely

honest, in this moment, I'm trying

637

:

to make sense of my own shit.

638

:

Ben: sure.

639

:

But you're you're.

640

:

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no.

641

:

You're you're clinging

on too hard right now.

642

:

Blakely: I don't know.

643

:

Ben: you're trying to watch

the pot boil and get certainty.

644

:

And unfortunately, that's just not.

645

:

know, like, the energy doesn't feel

right to me, I'm pushing back on you,

646

:

like, no, look at the truth, look at

the authenticity here, because, we've

647

:

already talked about, you took your

time, you became more gentle with

648

:

yourself, became more authentic with

yourself, and what works for you.

649

:

The whole time, we're meeting this whole

time, since that episode came out, we

650

:

have not stopped talking about this

651

:

Blakely: recording it because

we were doing it anyway.

652

:

Ben: Exactly.

653

:

what I'm saying is, change, one,

isn't linear, two, therapy is not

654

:

just the answer, three, are you in

a better place than when you were?

655

:

Blakely: Yes.

656

:

Ben: Right.

657

:

So like, are you learning about yourself?

658

:

Are there things probably that you need

to go look at in a therapy setting?

659

:

Yeah, probably.

660

:

both know that, but I would

rather it be, smarter.

661

:

harder.

662

:

The should energy really bothers me.

663

:

Blakely: No, it bothers me too.

664

:

And it's what I'm saying,

I'm trying not to do.

665

:

And so I that's why this particular

thing feels so conflictual to me,

666

:

is I feel a very strong pull in both

directions, that it doesn't feel like

667

:

the how right now, because I'm finding

the evidence of the path I'm already on.

668

:

do I force myself to

bushwhack this direction,

669

:

Ben: feels

670

:

Blakely: because it's the, the

671

:

I supposed to take?

672

:

I don't,

673

:

Ben: it feels to me like we're entering

into this portion of we We should

674

:

prescribe some stuff for each other

675

:

so Okay, Okay, so what

would I say to, for you?

676

:

Um,

677

:

Blakely: time out.

678

:

This is what we're going to

talk about next time, right?

679

:

I think, based on the evidence, that we

have had these parallel paths, similar

680

:

modes of growth in our own ways, that,

and we have always had sort of this

681

:

opposing perspective of one another.

682

:

I would be curious if we were to

independently leave this space, do some

683

:

thinking, do some research about what we

know about one another's personalities and

684

:

in our actual connected relationship, what

we know about each other and our lives and

685

:

our motivations and our needs to come back

and prescribe the next self-care push.

686

:

Ben: like, next self care, like

general theme, rather than, like,

687

:

skill set or behavior to do?

688

:

Blakely: Right, I'm

saying prescribe the...

689

:

Essence of it,

690

:

Ben: Yeah.

691

:

Sure.

692

:

Blakely: Because the how flexibility.

693

:

I don't think we can specifically

tell one another exactly what to do.

694

:

I can tell you that that

doesn't go well for me, usually.

695

:

So don't

696

:

Ben: No.

697

:

Really?

698

:

Blakely: And, and I'm curious what out of

699

:

it.

700

:

Ben: just spent, like, 25 minutes on it.

701

:

So

702

:

Blakely: I

703

:

think we're both in good on what we've

sort of patched together individually.

704

:

But haven't been very directive about,

I mean, sometimes I'm directive anyway.

705

:

But we've been, haven't

done this formally.

706

:

Ben: I like that, I like that,

707

:

Blakely: We give a menu options.

708

:

Give an essence of direction and

see if that gives us something new.

709

:

Ben: Alright, so you're saying, next

episode we'll come prepared with some

710

:

ideas for each other about the essence of

what we would recommend for our next path

711

:

for authenticity and caring for ourselves.

712

:

Blakely: Yes.

713

:

Ben: Awesome.

714

:

That sounds wonderful.

715

:

Blakely: Okay.

716

:

Let's do it.

717

:

Ben: Awesome.

718

:

This was cool.

719

:

I liked it.

720

:

Good to see you.

721

:

Good to be real with you,

722

:

Blakely: Thank you.

723

:

Ben: Thank you for tuning in.

724

:

Thank you for pressing that button.

725

:

We care about you.

726

:

Reach out to us.

727

:

Let us know your own journeys

and be well, be real,

728

:

Blakely: you next time.

729

:

Ben: All right.

730

:

Bye.

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