Shownotes
State of the Second sits down with Kevin from GSL Technology, a Michigan suppressor maker that has been building cans since 1985. Before suppressors, GSL did aerospace machining with titanium and inconel, and Kevin says a couple of components the company built are still on the moon. From its Jackson, Michigan facility west of Ann Arbor, GSL handled all the production for GemTech before Smith and Wesson bought GemTech in 2016. Kevin came to the company from an IT and military background, turned down the sales role twice, then flew up, shot the line, and got hooked.
Most of the episode clears up what suppressors actually are and how you legally get one. Suppressors are completely legal in most states and only slightly harder to buy than a handgun. The process runs through an FFL that holds the Special Occupational Tax, a background check, fingerprints, a passport photo, a $200 tax stamp, and an ATF wait Kevin puts at two to thirteen months, followed by a second 4473 to take it home. He walks through the long list of myths he hears at shows: that the government can inspect your house unannounced, that suppressors have a short lifespan, that they lower velocity or accuracy, that one can only fits one gun, and that they are outright illegal. He points listeners to the 10 Most Common Suppressor Myths article at the bottom of gsltechnology.com.
Kaylee takes the legislative side, tracing the path from the Hearing Protection Act to the new Shush Act introduced by Senator Mike Lee, and explaining why GOA backs these bills even when they will not pass right away. The argument is the long game: get good people to put their names on the bill, build a coalition, and create a record that the American people want suppressors out of the NFA. She and John tie it to the cultural fight too, from how Hollywood portrays firearms to attacks on hunter education in schools, and they push listeners to contact their representatives through gunowners.org, which takes about 45 seconds. Kevin closes with a tease of new suppressors using new baffle design technology that GSL may release at SHOT Show.
Links
Questions this episode answers
Is it legal to own a suppressor, and how hard is it to buy one?
Suppressors are completely legal in most states and have always been legal. Kevin says buying one is only slightly harder than buying a handgun, mostly paperwork and a wait rather than a ban.
What is the step-by-step process for getting a suppressor through an FFL and the ATF?
You buy through an FFL that holds the Special Occupational Tax, then complete a background check, fingerprints, a passport photo, and a $200 tax stamp. After the ATF wait, you fill out a second 4473 to take the suppressor home.
How long does ATF suppressor approval take, and what does the $200 tax stamp cover?
Kevin puts the ATF wait at roughly two to thirteen months. The $200 tax stamp is the federal National Firearms Act tax required to legally transfer the suppressor.
What are the most common myths about suppressor ownership, and which are false?
Kevin debunks claims that the government can inspect your house unannounced, that suppressors wear out quickly, that they lower velocity or accuracy, that one can fits only one gun, and that they are illegal. He points listeners to the 10 Most Common Suppressor Myths article at the bottom of gsltechnology.com.
Can a single suppressor be used on more than one firearm?
Yes. Kevin names the belief that a suppressor only fits one gun as one of the common myths he corrects, so a single can is not locked to a single firearm.
What is the difference between the Hearing Protection Act and the Shush Act?
Both aim to ease suppressor restrictions. Kaylee traces the path from the earlier Hearing Protection Act to the newer Shush Act, introduced by Senator Mike Lee.
Why does Gun Owners of America support bills like the Shush Act even when they are unlikely to pass right away?
Gun Owners of America (GOA) plays the long game: getting good lawmakers to put their names on a bill, building a coalition, and creating a record that Americans want suppressors out of the National Firearms Act. Kaylee adds that compromising only weakens the position.
What is the easiest way to contact your representative about suppressor legislation?
Kaylee and John point listeners to gunowners.org, where contacting your representative takes about 45 seconds.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Kevin from GSL
- 00:46 — GSL's history: aerospace, the moon, and GemTech
- 01:37 — Kevin's path from IT and the military into sales
- 03:45 — Being a suppressor company in Michigan
- 05:51 — The process of legally buying a suppressor
- 09:57 — Which FFLs can sell suppressors and the SOT
- 11:01 — The most common suppressor myths
- 15:55 — OSHA, hearing, and government inconsistency
- 20:32 — Culture, Hollywood, and firearms education
- 22:04 — Traveling with suppressors and TSA stories
- 30:13 — Hearing Protection Act, Shush Act, and the long game
- 39:17 — How bills get loaded with unrelated provisions
- 43:09 — The NFA, the $200 tax, and pricing people out
- 52:28 — Where to find GSL and a SHOT Show tease
About the guest
Kevin is a sales representative for GSL Technology, a suppressor manufacturer based in Jackson, Michigan, just west of Ann Arbor. He grew up in Auburn and Fort Wayne, Indiana, joined the military at 17, and has been enlisted since 2005. He has lived in Augusta, Georgia since 2014, doing telecommunications and IT work, including Cisco work, with the military. He came to GSL from an IT background after his advisor connected him to a sales role, and he published the company's 10 Most Common Suppressor Myths article on gsltechnology.com.
Key quotes
"So suppressors are completely legal, right? They have been. They always have been." — Kevin
"Getting a suppressor is only slightly more difficult than getting a handgun" — Kevin
"If I can go into a gun shop and buy a set of ear Pro to protect my hearing, I should be able to go and buy a suppressor to protect the hearing of everyone else around me." — Kevin
"every time we compromise, the only thing we're doing is weakening our position" — Kaylee
"I think everything that's wrapped up in the process of getting a suppressor is designed to discourage ownership of them." — Kevin
"it's pricing people out of their rights" — Kaylee
Transcripts
Well, welcome.
Speaker A:Welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Okay, excited to be here.
Speaker B:So we have today our friend Kevin from gsl or suppressors technology.
Speaker A:Can't you read the.
Speaker A:It's right there.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Kevin is from GSL Technology and they do quiet stuff, all the cool stuff.
Speaker B:So, Kevin, let's start with your background, kind of how you got in with the company, what you do there, what the company's all about.
Speaker B:Tell a little brief story.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Well, hey, thank you so much for having me here today.
Speaker C:I'm excited.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's very humbling.
Speaker C:So GSL is not a new company, Right.
Speaker C: They've existed since: Speaker C:Worked with a lot of titanium and inconel already, and they built a couple components that are still on the moon.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, so they've been, you know, they're not.
Speaker C:They're not a new company at all.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C: In: Speaker C: oduction for GemTech prior to: Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C: ch suppressor with, you know,: Speaker C:Which is pretty cool.
Speaker C:They're located in Jackson, Michigan, just west of Ann Arbor.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Not far from Detroit.
Speaker C:And yeah, absolutely cool company as far as myself.
Speaker C:I mean, I grew up in Auburn and Fort Wayne, Indiana.
Speaker C: , have been enlisted since: Speaker C:And so that's exciting stuff.
Speaker C:And my advisor linked me up with GSL at one point and said, hey, I think you should look at a sales role with this company.
Speaker C:And I was like, you know, I don't do sales.
Speaker C:I am an IT guy.
Speaker C:I do telecommunications and Cisco work and iOS and a lot of nerd stuff, right?
Speaker C:And I turned him down.
Speaker C:I was like, no, I'm not interested in a sales role.
Speaker C:And then things kind of accelerated because I ended up getting a couple suppressors And I got a 9 mil can, and I got a 2, 2, 3 dedicated can.
Speaker C:And they asked me a second time and they're like, hey, what do you think about this sales role?
Speaker C:And I was like filling out the form fours and the paperwork in the background and everything.
Speaker C:And I was like, nah, man, I don't think so.
Speaker C:I'm not interested in sales.
Speaker C:And my form fours start pending, right?
Speaker C:And I'm waiting.
Speaker C:And I flew up to Michigan and met with their facility and shot all the different suppressors, had a blast, got Addicted.
Speaker C:And I was like, okay, fine, send me the case.
Speaker C:And so this is obviously not my first case.
Speaker C:I've had a couple of them.
Speaker C:My first one I had maybe five or six different models.
Speaker C:And I started linking up with dealers and law enforcement agencies and did really well in sales.
Speaker C:You know, I realized that a lot of sales is conveying information.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so working with it, I mean, that's, that's what you're doing as well.
Speaker C:You're getting information from one place to another.
Speaker C:And so I'm like, man, I can really leverage a lot of the skills I've already developed and got into sales.
Speaker C:And I'm like, okay, fine, let's do it.
Speaker A:So how is it?
Speaker A:Michigan is not an easy gun state and it's not the worst either.
Speaker A:So how is it being a suppressor company in Michigan right now?
Speaker C:Well, there's a lot of two way friendly companies up in Michigan.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Eotech's up there, Trigger cons up there, or Trijicon.
Speaker C:Not trigger con Leapers, Great Lakes.
Speaker C:There's several 2A companies up there.
Speaker C:The government and the governor of Michigan is not super friendly to the 2A.
Speaker C:But I mean, I'm sure that they are probably okay when we're cashing those sales checks and taxes and you know, infusing the state with jobs and income.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:They're probably okay with that part of it.
Speaker C:But I've never actually lived in Michigan.
Speaker C:Believe it or not, I travel quite a bit with GSL.
Speaker C: nd I've been down there since: Speaker C:And I've really only been to GSL's facility maybe four or five times.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Which is funny.
Speaker C:You know, a lot of my work is remote, you know, going to NRA and shot show and trigger con and gun stock and all these different events around the country and getting in front of SOT dealers and getting in front of our target customer base, you know.
Speaker C:So, yeah, having never been a Michigan citizen, it hasn't been a huge impact on me personally, but definitely interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we've got a lot of people who are interested in suppressors.
Speaker B:We know that, you know, we're trying to get some legislation passed to make it easier.
Speaker B:But right now, what is the process for those who may not know of getting a suppressor?
Speaker C:So suppressors are completely legal, right?
Speaker C:They have been.
Speaker C:They always have been.
Speaker C:A lot of people have this misconception that they're illegal to own or that they're for assassins or that they're only helpful for military or law enforcement.
Speaker C:It's not accurate at all.
Speaker A:You know,.
Speaker C:Getting a suppressor is only slightly more difficult than getting a handgun, right?
Speaker C:There's additional background checks and screening, and the ATF take the copy of your fingerprints and they take a passport photo of you, and they assign a suppressor to a person, right?
Speaker C:And they're not transferable like a handgun would be.
Speaker C:If I buy a handgun and I don't like it, I can sell it to someone else that's not a felon, right?
Speaker C:I can sell it to a friend for cash right now, right?
Speaker C:In most states, a suppressor, you cannot do that, right?
Speaker C:You cannot loan it to someone to take to the range themselves.
Speaker C:You cannot sell it for cash at all, right?
Speaker C:The government wants to know every single time that it changes hands.
Speaker C:And so that's interesting, right?
Speaker C:It's a more advanced degree of accountability, I suppose, right?
Speaker C:Because they've lumped suppressors in with machine guns.
Speaker C:Like somehow a suppressor is just as dangerous as a machine gun, and paying a $200 tax and registering it somehow makes it less dangerous.
Speaker B:So it's good that you brought up that you can't, like, person to person, sell it.
Speaker B:So if you were to buy a suppressor and go, I don't need it anymore, how would you go about getting rid of it if you don't need it or don't like it?
Speaker C:It's possible you could destroy it, right?
Speaker C:And send a notice of destruction to the ATF and say, hey, this serial number has been destroyed, right?
Speaker C:You crush it.
Speaker C:You, you know, mash it beyond recognition.
Speaker C:You could bring it to your FFL and you could consign it to them, sell it to them, pay another $200 to transfer to them.
Speaker C:And every time it changes hands, you know, it's a strange phenomenon, but you could consign it and then have someone else purchase it, I suppose.
Speaker C:But a suppressor, though, is kind of a lifetime commitment.
Speaker C:You know, it's not.
Speaker C:It's not something that you buy and sell and buy and sell like an AR15 or a pistol even.
Speaker C:You know, as far as the process of getting one.
Speaker C:I mean, you go to your FFL and you say, hey, I want to get XYZ suppressor for, you know, whatever weapon platform.
Speaker C:And they do form four, right?
Speaker C:They'll do a background check, goes to the ATF with the fingerprints, passport photos, and the $200 payment to the ATF.
Speaker C:And then the ATF sandbags the rest of the process for two to 13 months and then once you get that blessing, the approval comes back to the FFL and they say, hey, this guy can have this suppressor now.
Speaker C: And you do another: Speaker C:And then you can own it.
Speaker C:And then there's no annual fee, there's no license, there's no Class 3 license that you have to have in order to own a suppressor.
Speaker C: know, on that form four, that: Speaker C:And if you live in, you know, Georgia and Florida and Tennessee and most of the two A friendly states, you're good to go.
Speaker C:As soon as you move to Illinois or New York, you are in trouble because you cannot bring that suppressor with you even if you already legally own it in South Carolina.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which is strange.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:When it comes to suppressor ownership.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:You know, well, let me go, let's go this route first and then I'll do the follow up question.
Speaker B:If I want to buy a suppressor, can I go to any FFL or do, is there specific FFLs I have to go to to purchase a suppressor?
Speaker C:If you want to buy a suppressor, you give me a call.
Speaker C:There are certain FFLs that pay an additional tax, right?
Speaker C:The SOT is what it's called, the special occupational tax.
Speaker C:And those dealers are able to process NFA items, suppressors, SBRs, whatever.
Speaker C:Okay, so it's not every FFL in the country that can also sell or process suppressors for you.
Speaker C:And yeah, yeah, once they pay that special sot, that special occupational tax, they're able to do all of those transfers.
Speaker B:Now, now that we've got that out of the way, what are some of the biggest myths about suppressor ownership and buying a suppressor?
Speaker B:And you probably have heard them all.
Speaker B:You've been to shows someone's like, well, it's illegal or I need a Class 3 license or I need this or I need that.
Speaker B:What are the top, top five or top three myths that you've heard that you're like, that's just not true.
Speaker C:So I actually published an article on this fairly recently.
Speaker C:It's on our [email protected] it's at the very bottom.
Speaker C:It's called the 10 Most Common Myths.
Speaker C:And let me see if I can pull up some of them.
Speaker C:But I mean, obviously myth number nine on there is my favorite, right?
Speaker C:It's the one that people somehow think that you can.
Speaker C:That owning a suppressor means that you are subject to inspections, that the government can come to your house unannounced, kick down your door, and there it is.
Speaker C:Facts versus myths.
Speaker C:The 10 most common suppressor myths.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So on that link, I've got a breakdown of some of the most common myths that I hear.
Speaker C:Myth number nine, the government can come to your house unannounced for an inspection.
Speaker C:I've heard this a lot.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I've heard this from a lot of people, even FFLs, and it's not accurate.
Speaker C:Our Second Amendment, our Fourth Amendment rights do not get waived just because you own a suppressor.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:No more than they would if you own a handgun.
Speaker C:Many think that being on the list.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Is going to result in additional screening or additional law enforcement scrutiny.
Speaker C:And that's not.
Speaker C:That's not true either.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Other major myths that I've hear that I've heard before is that suppressors have a short lifespan.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:That's not true.
Speaker C: like, the early models in the: Speaker C:Modern machining.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Almost any manufacturer in the industry is now using CNC machine jetted cones and, you know, welded components.
Speaker C:And even the guys that are doing 3D printing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's still durability and suppressors that should outlive your children.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Another common myth is that suppressors impact velocity or make a weapon less accurate.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And that's pretty common.
Speaker C:Suppressors are actually incredible for shooting.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:They're great for lowering the sound and the shock and the muzzle flinch.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And lowering the recoil of the weapon, of course.
Speaker C:And so they're going to be easier and safer to shoot and to train new shooters, which is awesome.
Speaker C:And they're not going to lower velocity.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:At longer ranges, they actually increase velocity slightly.
Speaker C:And because of the additional gas expansion in the barrel quality, suppressor does not make contact with the bullet.
Speaker C:And so there's no.
Speaker C:There's no.
Speaker C:There's no way that it's going to impact the bullet flight path.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:The gas is what's dispersed in a suppressor.
Speaker C:The bullet goes straight through.
Speaker C:The gas is slowed down at the barrel and escapes slower.
Speaker C:And so it's quieter and.
Speaker B:Myth.
Speaker C:Myth, okay?
Speaker C:And another one that I find and hear very often is that suppressors can only go on one weapon.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:That's a really common thing.
Speaker C:Suppressors are rated for caliber, right.
Speaker C:They're not rated for a single weapon.
Speaker C:So when I register a suppressor for this.22.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I can put this on any 22.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I can put it on a, you know, 17 HMR.
Speaker C:I can put it on anything with a threaded barrel that is going to take that pressure.
Speaker C:So they're rated based on bore diameter and the pressure that's going to go through them.
Speaker C:And so like a 9 millimeter can, you could technically shoot a 2, 2, 3 through it because the bullet's smaller.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But the pressure on a 223 is so much higher.
Speaker C:It's a faster bullet that you would not want to shoot a 223 through most 9 millimeter design suppressors.
Speaker C:So it's not true that they have to live on one weapon.
Speaker C:It's more so true that they are, you know, purpose built for the caliber that you're going to use them on.
Speaker C:And probably just the most common myth that I've ever heard was that they were completely illegal to own.
Speaker C:You know, and that's, that's not true either, unless you live in one of those, one of those banned states.
Speaker C:You know, I have a, I think I have a map on there too.
Speaker C:Right here is an awesome US map that shows all of the states that are still allowing private ownership of suppressors.
Speaker C:You know, obviously California, Hawaii, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Are some of the biggest ones that are, they're still prohibited.
Speaker C:And again, you can't move there and bring your suppressor with you even though you already own it.
Speaker C:It's a really strange phenomenon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's talk about just the differences within the government as far as suppressors are concerned for a minute.
Speaker A:One of the things that I have always found interesting is the fact that OSHA endorses the use of a suppressor, and yet states are prohibiting that.
Speaker A:And like, it's, it's just kind of those crazy things where you're, you're sitting back and you're like, well, how does this work?
Speaker A:Like, how, how is it that they're saying you absolutely need to have this, it protects your hearing, it does all of these great things, yet the states are going, no, not here.
Speaker A:Like that logic doesn't apply.
Speaker A:And then of course, we all know that the NFA is just a massive amount of government overreach and has been too long in its reign of tyranny.
Speaker C:Hashtag RepealTheNFA.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Well, the funny word like just listening was mess.
Speaker B:You, you listen to it and it's like, how many of those are affected by Hollywood how much laws have we have in place that are affected by Hollywood and video?
Speaker B:Like the velocity thing, it's funny that people are bringing that up because that's like a video game thing where it's like, oh, you put it on, it ruins everything.
Speaker B:And it's, it's funny how many people just believe these myths over the years that have come through.
Speaker B:Like, I've heard the.
Speaker B:The come to your door and I'm like, we have a Fourth Amendment for a reason, right?
Speaker B:We have, like, this is, this is what makes me laugh, is that the amount, and the amount of like, misnomer and like, secrecy around suppressors is like, you got to be part of the cool guy club to get a suppressor or you got to go, this.
Speaker B:It's like, no, everybody should have one of these.
Speaker B:Like, this half is mine.
Speaker B:When he leaves, I'm just gonna take all these.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's just funny like that.
Speaker B:We're still.
Speaker B: It's: Speaker B: The NFA came out in: Speaker B:We're still believing these myths and these misconceptions over something that is gonna protect our hearing or it's going to make us have a more.
Speaker B:A better shooting experience.
Speaker B:It's just funny how we still believe these silly little things.
Speaker C:Right, well, to your question about how is it that, Gosh, you said earlier, how is it that OSHA is endorsing these.
Speaker C:How is it that all of the science and the data and the sound metrics are saying that, hey, prolonged exposure to jackhammer or aircraft engines is no good, but if you're shooting, we're gonna regulate and tax and fine and, you know, do a background check and all of these things in order to get you a suppressor.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I, I think it's really interesting that Illinois, California and New York are not the lowest crime rates states.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:They actually have some of the highest crime rates in the whole country and they have the most strict gun laws.
Speaker C:It's a really interesting phenomenon.
Speaker C:It's almost like additional infringement and laws don't actually stop criminals from committing crimes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Suppressors are not often used in crimes, obviously, because a person who has already done those background checks and already done that screening and done everything legally is not generally just changing their mind one day and becoming a killer.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I can't really explain that other than fear, I suppose, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think more to.
Speaker A:To your point, and John, it is the understanding of how much culture affects what we have to deal with as individual gun owners.
Speaker A:We have to understand that we are not simply fighting a fight for our constitutionally protected rights on the governmental regulatory level.
Speaker A:We're also having to ensure our rights on the cultural level and to not make our voice be known, to not stand up for it, to not ensure that guns are portrayed the way that they should be in movies, by making.
Speaker A:By making it so easy for them to escape the realities of firearms, whether they are on set and using them very improperly, as in the case with the Alec Baldwin shooting, or on the other end, just like a James Bond movie where a suppressor makes the firearm completely silent.
Speaker A:Like, those things are conversations that we have to bring up so that we can start on the cultural battle that plays so much into how the Second Amendment is perceived for people that aren't.
Speaker B:In the community right now.
Speaker B:If I have a suppressor, and I want to, because we talked about this before the show, and I'm traveling with said surrender suppressor.
Speaker B:What is.
Speaker B:What's kind of like the thing that goes around traveling with a suppressor or any NFA item?
Speaker C:Well, I've got a couple suppressors.
Speaker B:Just a few.
Speaker C:I've got a few.
Speaker C:And I almost had to empty, like, one third of my safe to come here.
Speaker C:Here's the thing with traveling with suppressors and traveling with firearms.
Speaker C:You know, they don't want the possibility of a firearm discharging in your luggage.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which is totally normal.
Speaker C:That's why you can't have a loaded magazine inside of your weapon while you're in a plane, which I get suppressors, though.
Speaker C:When I was flying out to shot show a few years ago, I went up to the counter and I said, hey, I have a firearm to declare.
Speaker C:And I had this exact case with me.
Speaker C:And she said, how many do you have?
Speaker C:And I was like, maybe 27.
Speaker C:She said, you can't have 27 firearms on a plane.
Speaker C:And she says, let me see it.
Speaker C:I open up the case, and she said, where's the firearm?
Speaker C:And I said, these are all firearms.
Speaker C:The ATF says, these are firearms.
Speaker C:And she says, well, there's no trigger, there's no powder, there's no bullet.
Speaker C:There's no primer.
Speaker C:There's no way to shoot someone with these without adding a firearm.
Speaker C:I was like, I understand that, and if you could just put that in writing for me, that'd be great.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Well, I love traveling with guns.
Speaker B:You know, the.
Speaker B:I've got two good TSA stories.
Speaker B:So this time, going through tsa, they went through all my stuff, like, everything.
Speaker B:They took my lighter, which was in my checked Bag.
Speaker B:I was like, what the heck?
Speaker B:But we were in Charlotte, and we went up to the counter and we had a case of guns that we were checking in.
Speaker B:And the lady goes, okay.
Speaker B:We're like, hey, we got guns to check.
Speaker B:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And the lady comes up and yells from the other side of the counter, goes, are those the guys with the guns in the airport?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:I was with.
Speaker B:You know, Kurt was there.
Speaker B:And the lady behind him was like, excuse me.
Speaker B:He goes, I work for a firearms company.
Speaker B:This is what's going on.
Speaker B:I've had that.
Speaker B:I've had TSA call me while I'm getting on the plane and go, hey, we need the combinations to your lock.
Speaker B:I'm like, I'm on the plane.
Speaker B:Like, you guys should have checked this before I got on the plane.
Speaker B:It's just goofy how tsa, like, it's this big disconnect between TSA and.
Speaker B:I heard it this time when I was leaving Phoenix.
Speaker B:Is that not all.
Speaker B:They're all supposed to be doing the same thing, but not all of them do.
Speaker B:And that's just baffling.
Speaker A:I think it's a lack of education for a lot of people, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And again, that kind of goes back to the cultural thing.
Speaker A:If firearms education isn't a part of the American culture, it affects every gun owner, whether it is going through TSA or just everyday life and conversation where someone freaks out because someone's open carrying, or all of the things that kind of come with the stigma of owning firearms, which there shouldn't be any stigma at all to that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think if we're not to veer too far off topic of suppressors, I think that's why the Biden administration's attack on removing Hunter's education and.
Speaker A:And gun safety from schools was so targeted, because they understand that if that exists at some level, those kids are going to understand, oh, I have a right to a firearm, and I can get comfortable with a firearm because I know basic gun safety.
Speaker A:I know basic, you know, the tools that are taught in Hunter safety courses.
Speaker A:And if they can remove that from the schools, they're eliminating a layer of that on ramp into the Second Amendment community.
Speaker A:And so I think it's indicative upon us as individual gun owners to make sure that things like that don't go unchecked, that they don't go where you're like, well, I'm not a Hunter.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:I don't have kids in school.
Speaker A:This doesn't affect me.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:What is it doing to the two A community long term, because these kind of attacks are targeted attacks, whether they directly affect you or they don't.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Well, the real question is if, you know, that's not an option, right?
Speaker C:And we just remove all firearms training and you know, no, no one under 18 gets any kind of exposure to firearms, right, In a safe and effective manner.
Speaker C:That means that their firearms training and knowledge and experience is all in Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty and you know what I mean?
Speaker C:And that's, that's not accurate, you know what I mean?
Speaker C:And so if that's all, you know is Grand Theft Auto, you know, flipping over cop cars and, you know, getting points for shooting people in the head, I mean, it's not.
Speaker C:That's terrible, right?
Speaker C:That's a terrible thing for the Second Amendment and for long term, you know, long term health of our nation, right?
Speaker C:If you really want to lower the, the violence in the U.S. you know, over the next year, the next five years, the next 10 years, I would imagine all of that, you know, safe firearms training being a lot stronger, know what I mean?
Speaker C:It always blows my mind that, you know, a lot more firearms owners, right, A lot more legislators that actually shoot firearms are not the ones that are, you know, directly involved with the sponsoring of, you know, gun control.
Speaker C:Because we went through a, a whole time with abortion, right?
Speaker C:You remember during abortion they were saying, oh, all these old white men are making decisions on women's bodies, right?
Speaker C:And there was a lot of people upset about that.
Speaker C:And then you look at the firearms and you're like, wait a minute, these guys trying to make decisions on firearms and pistol braces and whatever, they are not gun owners.
Speaker C:They are not guys shooting.
Speaker C:And they have no idea what they're talking about either.
Speaker C:And so it just blows my mind a little bit if you think about that, like duality of saying that, you know, old white men shouldn't make abortion decisions.
Speaker C:And then you look at firearms and you say, well, let's have all of the anti gunners sponsoring and pushing all of this legislation.
Speaker B:Well, it, it's funny that you brought up like the no firearms training until you're 18, so on and so forth.
Speaker B:Being someone who worked at a range at one point and talking to a lot of range people, when foreign foreigners come in or tourists come in from other countries, they come in and they want to shoot stuff because they can't do it at home.
Speaker B:And they are the ones who are doing the things they see because all they've seen it in is Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty.
Speaker B:And you see them like, they go on the range and do goofy stuff and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's take an hour or two and kind of teach you this gun safety stuff and how to do it properly.
Speaker B:And they always come out with a big smile on their face having fun, but they don't.
Speaker B:That's how they learn because they don't have it in their country.
Speaker B:I've seen a lot with Australians, I've seen it a lot with people from China and other things where they come in because they don't have the Second Amendment in their country, but they want to like enjoy that freedom that we have and they get to go do that here, which is, I think, pretty cool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now you brought up Washington and I'm going to pass this to Kaylee because she's way up to date on this.
Speaker B:So we had this Hearing Protection act go in.
Speaker B:Now we have the Shush Act.
Speaker B:So can you give like a brief history summary on this?
Speaker B:I'm throwing you on the spot here.
Speaker A:Thanks for putting me on the spot.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we've got multiple iterations of bills that have been introduced to help get suppressors out of the nfa.
Speaker A:The last Congress we had the Hearing Protection act and that was a goa backed bill.
Speaker A:It was introduced in the House, I believe by South Carolina Representative Duncan.
Speaker A:And then on the Senate side it was the, I think Idaho Senator Craig Crepo.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so those guys kind of have reinvigorated the, the charge to get suppressors out of the nfa.
Speaker A:This Congress, it came as a different bill.
Speaker A:And that bill was introduced by Senator Mike Lee and Representative out of Virginia.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:And he, they've kind of come together and they have named their bill the Shush act, which is the saving hearing.
Speaker A:Something I forget the worst out of, Is it Tennessee?
Speaker A:No, Mike Lee is out of Utah, which is a huge suppressor state.
Speaker A:I think so is Idaho.
Speaker A:So we've got some, some good people that are introducing these bills.
Speaker A:Now I know what everyone says when we work to get these bills introduced, especially in an administration that is as hostile as the Biden administration is to gun owners.
Speaker A:And I know we go into this a lot, but I think it's important that people understand there is a long game here.
Speaker A:And there is also simultaneously a, a legal precedent as well where you need to look back and show that this is something that the American people want.
Speaker A:So from the political side of things, if you can't get good people to introduce bills when there's no chance of it passing, and it's not on the docket and it's not something that they're signing their name to.
Speaker A:And it's not something that they're going back and knocking down doors and in their party and say, hey, like, when we get to govern, this is what we absolutely have to do for the American people.
Speaker A:When it comes to the time that, that the pro gun advocates and the pro gun members of Congress and a pro gun president get into office, there's no chance of it going anywhere because the priority wasn't set ahead of time.
Speaker A:There's not been a coalition building to get something across the finish line.
Speaker A:And so people call us crazy when we support things like the Hearing Protection act, like the Shush act, like the Shall Not Be Infringe act, and the Right to Keep and Bear Arm act, all of these phenomenal pieces of legislation that go to restore people's rights.
Speaker A:Because they throw up their hands and they're like, what are you doing?
Speaker A:Well, why do I want to send an email to my representative on this?
Speaker A:Why do I want to call my senator or my representative and say, hey, like, this is important to me?
Speaker A:And it's because you're building a groundswell and you're moving the needle so that when we are in a position of strength, we have what it takes to get it across the finish line.
Speaker A:And we have seen such a movement take place across the country.
Speaker A:If you look at what has happened with constitutional carry and how long of a movement that's been from, I won't count Vermont just because Vermont is amazing and like instill constitutional carry like in their founding.
Speaker A:And so they are definitely the original.
Speaker A: constitutional carry where in: Speaker A:But it's something that's happened state by state by state.
Speaker A:But what are those states sending the message to the federal government and to their representatives that people care about their Second Amendment right tremendously, that there is a groundswell for their Second Amendment rights.
Speaker A:And if we want to get suppressors out of the nfa, which we do, if we want to dismantle the NFA in its entirety, which we do, those things have to happen to show like, this is what the American people want.
Speaker A:And if you're going to represent us, you're going to have to stand up for our constitutionally protected rights.
Speaker A:I'll get off my soapbox.
Speaker B:No, and I think that's great because what happens is, as the general public most of the time we hear these things go through and we, like you said, why does this affect me?
Speaker B:What do we do?
Speaker B: It's been going since: Speaker B:Start contacting your representatives.
Speaker B:Start getting it in their head.
Speaker B:The more people that contact the representatives, the more that it gets in their head, you know, the more that they're going to go, okay, we need to form this coalition because this is what my, the people I represent want.
Speaker B:And if you're in those districts where the senators and the congressmen who introduce these bills, call them, say thank you.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:Let's push, let's go like hashtag repeal the nfa.
Speaker A:And beyond that, you'll never underestimate the power of attendance.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Respectfully, and this is the key, right.
Speaker A:No one wants to go to an event and get screamed out by screamed at.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So there is a respectful aspect of this and I think that's a key component.
Speaker A:But you're at a time where, especially for, you know, House races, many Senate seats, where it's coming up on election season and you're going to be seeing a lot more opportunities to go to meet and greets, to go to events where your rep is attending.
Speaker A:Ask them, ask them, hey, why haven't you co sponsored or thank them for co sponsoring?
Speaker A:You know, those are the things that you can do.
Speaker A:And yes, it can be inconvenient and yes, not everyone can do it.
Speaker A:But when you respectfully go up to them and say, listen, this is something that's OSHA endorsed, this is something that not only protects my hearing, but if you're a hunter, let's talk about suppressors and hunting for a bit.
Speaker A:Granted, there's more restrictions than it is for just owning a suppressor in many states, but the noise pollution for the environment is better and you can advocate for all of these things as an individual and maybe you, being their constituent, can bring them closer on this issue than they would have ever been without you taking that step.
Speaker A:It all comes down to personal responsibility.
Speaker B:So if they want to contact Kaylee, what is the best way for them to contact their representative?
Speaker B:If, for those who may not understand, what's the best way to do it?
Speaker A:So, yeah, there's a few ways to do it.
Speaker A:The easiest, simplest way to do it is to go to gunowners.org There is a, It'll have federal alerts up and on the screen Click it.
Speaker A:You'll see every single bill that we're monitoring.
Speaker A:And you can send an email to your representative on anything that's on that list.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is so important.
Speaker A:And once you do it once, you'll realize it takes you about 45 seconds.
Speaker A:Unless you want to add your own, you know, meat to the, to the email.
Speaker A:The other way is just pick up the phone and call and leave a message.
Speaker A:Like, it might sound crazy, but it makes such a difference.
Speaker A:We've seen it work time and time again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I've seen the website utility that you're talking about, and it auto populates based on your zip code.
Speaker C:It says, oh, this is your rep, this is your rep. And that's incredible.
Speaker C:I'd be really interested to know how many of our congressmen, you know, believe a lot of those myths that we were talking about earlier.
Speaker C:You know, I'm sure a lot of them.
Speaker C:I'm sure if you took a poll of Congress and said, are suppressors illegal?
Speaker C:You know, it'd be really interesting to see what kind of results you'd get, you know, because a lot of them are not gun owners.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:You know, a lot of them don't care about firearms and don't care about the additional infringements.
Speaker C:But I feel like, you know, I feel like a lot of the traction that the Hearing Protection act and a lot of these bills are losing is because they then get coupled with other things and they're like, oh, well, you know, that sounds great, but we need to add, you know, this kickback to agricultural society or whatever the hell they put in there.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden it doesn't pass because of all of the fat that is in there.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And it blows my mind a little bit.
Speaker C:You would think that Congress would be like, hey, this is a bill.
Speaker C:Let's talk about this.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And then move on.
Speaker C:And hey, this is the agricultural bill.
Speaker C:We're gonna talk about this.
Speaker C:But no, what they do is this little shell game where they'll pair all of these things together and they say, you either pass this or it's rejected.
Speaker C:And so that's like, at the core.
Speaker C:One of the biggest problems I see in pushing legislation forward is all of the things, all of, like the, all of the, like the kickbacks and the things that are bundled with these bills together.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I'm sure that that Hearing Protection act was like 10,000 pages.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:To restore 27 words.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's the crazy part.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, there's.
Speaker A:They try to hide gun control everywhere.
Speaker A:That they can.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Health bills.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Goa.
Speaker A:You know, gosh, bragging on our legal team and our Federal affairs team for a minute.
Speaker A:Wouldn't want to do their job ever, just because, you know, they're having to read things like the National Defense Authorization act, which is the ndaa, that comes up quite frequently.
Speaker A:And there'll be hidden gun control in the Defense Authorization act almost always.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:And so they're constantly having to read everything to make sure that we're alerting our members and that we can fight against things that often could fly under the radar.
Speaker A:And so, you know, applause.
Speaker A:Applause for our people.
Speaker C:Because I. I don't want to read all that.
Speaker A:Me neither.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But yeah, I mean, like, just the way that they're operating in that capacity, I think it's doing the American people a disservice.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:When you aren't actually voting on that act, you're voting on all the things that you want.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:It blows my mind.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:I mean, they put so many words in it when very few words would do trick.
Speaker B:It would work well.
Speaker C:Shall not be infringed.
Speaker B:Shall not be infringed.
Speaker B:Right there.
Speaker B:Shall not be infringed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Can we understand that Keeping bear arms.
Speaker C:You know, the ATF says this is a firearm, so therefore it should not be, you know, restricted.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker C:If I can go into the.
Speaker C:If I can go into a gun shop and buy a set of ear Pro to protect my hearing, I should be able to go and buy a suppressor to protect the hearing of everyone else around me.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, and it's.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's go back to the root of all this.
Speaker B:The NFA.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B: since: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And if you look at it, if it were to continue on with everything else that has gone up in value and price and over the years, that tax technically should be like $2,000 or whatever it is.
Speaker C:5,000.
Speaker B:$5,000.
Speaker B:The reason why it's $200 is.
Speaker B:Is because that's how much a Thompson submachine gun cost back in the day.
Speaker B:So $200.
Speaker B:You got to pay a $200 tax.
Speaker B:So that's the same price.
Speaker B:And we're seeing this again with this proposed thousand percent excise tax, and we're seeing this with the proposed that you have to be an FFL to sell your own thing, which would.
Speaker B:Or your own guns, because you're making a profit.
Speaker B:They just want to go after, you know, the working class.
Speaker B:And we see this wake up the Brace band and everything.
Speaker B:How many people have they affected?
Speaker B:Not only on this war on plastic, which Kaylee coined the term and love that term, but now they're also.
Speaker B:It's the war at the dinner table.
Speaker B:It really is.
Speaker B:They're taking away pieces of our industry.
Speaker B:They're taking away things.
Speaker B:They're trying to hurt us, not only by taking away our rights, but hit us in our pocketbooks.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's pricing people out of their rights.
Speaker A:And you know, thankfully the thousand percent excise tax is not something that is going to get passed.
Speaker A:But and this is why the no compromise approach matters and why GOA is no compromise is we don't want them to say, okay, well 1,000% was too much, but you know, we'll go down to 100% and that be brought out as well.
Speaker A:That was a win.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because they wanted this.
Speaker A:But wait a second, what did gun owners win in that deal?
Speaker A:No 100%.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker A:But that is how so often things are brought up is, well, they wanted this and we settled here.
Speaker A:And what's insane is what you've done is you've made no party happy because on one side of it you have the anti gun left.
Speaker A:That's like, but we wanted a thousand percent.
Speaker A:And you know, it's, it's that, you know, like we didn't get everything we want, but we'll get more next time.
Speaker A:And you know, like they're advancing their cause and they're like, you know, calling their reps and they're like, you know, why didn't you settle for like 101?
Speaker A:Like, you know, they're always wanting more of the pipe.
Speaker A:And on the other side you have to look at where the second amendment's at and they're now you're going as a gun owner and you're like, oh wait, yeah, we didn't get the thousand percent tax, but what the heck?
Speaker A:Do you realize what you've done?
Speaker A:You've weakened everyone's ability.
Speaker A:And, and thankfully, you know, that's not something that we're seeing in this bill.
Speaker A:But that's why, and so often we get this question, well, why no compromise?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:And that's why.
Speaker A:It's because every time we compromise, the only thing we're doing is weakening our position.
Speaker A:The only thing we're doing is saying those 27 words penned by our founders that protect the right.
Speaker A:That is the government didn't grant that right.
Speaker A:That is a natural right.
Speaker A:And that natural right is now weakened because.
Speaker A:Because we allowed the compromise.
Speaker B:Well, look at New York and California.
Speaker B:You shoot a ton.
Speaker B:You shoot a ton.
Speaker B:You order ammo online, it gets straight to your house.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If you, if you go that route, if you order ammo online in California or New York, it's got to go to an ffl.
Speaker B:Then you pay a background check fee.
Speaker B:Then you pay this fee and this tax and that tax.
Speaker C:They have a tax per bullet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're, you're getting priced out.
Speaker B:So you buy a box of nine mil for 10, 11, 12 bucks.
Speaker B:Thirteen, whatever it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, 10 bucks, you're doubling your price.
Speaker B:So why, you know, you end up buying in bulk, which is what you should do.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But then you're adding on all these added fees and they're pricing people out because they don't want them to have these rights.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, it's the.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness, I'm gonna blank on a state.
Speaker A:Is it Illinois that has the void card where you have to have.
Speaker B:Illinois has Floyd card.
Speaker B:New Jersey has something similar to the.
Speaker B:It's not called Floyd in Jersey.
Speaker B:It's something else.
Speaker B:Massachusetts has a firearm.
Speaker B:New York's got a card too.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, those are just.
Speaker A:It's insane.
Speaker C:It's additional infringement.
Speaker A:It's additional infringement.
Speaker A:And then ultimately, again, it's making what they know to be the biggest.
Speaker A:The biggest issue and the best way for them to win is for people not to join the Second Amendment community.
Speaker A:Because once you join, you find a welcoming community.
Speaker A:Once you join, you understand that you have the ability to protect yourself.
Speaker A:Once you join, you're more likely to go and get training and purchase additional firearms and you're most likely going to be a gun owner for life.
Speaker A:And that scares them.
Speaker A:And so what they're doing is they're making that on ramp into the Second Amendment community much harder.
Speaker A:And it's why they've gone after Hunter education and school.
Speaker A:It's why they're adding all of these different layers of infringement, is because we know at our core as Americans that we have the right to defend ourselves.
Speaker A: that as the government until: Speaker A:And so, you know, it's so important that we talk about these things and that there's education involved so that we don't let this happen in more states and we stand up and hopefully repeal some of these infringement measures even in the difficult territories.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, we saw it with the assault weapons ban, the 94 ban that sunsetted.
Speaker B:We've seen it with the 68 Gun Control Act.
Speaker B:We see it with the, what is it, 86, 86, 86.
Speaker B:When he.
Speaker B:Like we're seeing this all the time and it's, we're seeing all the gun control in all these different states.
Speaker B:It doesn't work.
Speaker B:I mean, I saw this funny stat yesterday.
Speaker B:Mexico has one gun store in all of Mexico is on a military base in Mexico City.
Speaker B:They have more guns in Mexico than in the US and they have more gun violence, but they have one gun store.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:All these loopholes to go through to get it.
Speaker B:Criminals are going to get guns no matter what.
Speaker B:Or, you know, the ATF will just give them to them, you know, fast and furious.
Speaker B:Fast and furious.
Speaker B:But we see that.
Speaker B:And clearly if it's not working, we've seen it in Canada where they ban handguns.
Speaker B:The silent majority is not, it's not going to put up with us anymore.
Speaker B:And we're seeing that kind of movement.
Speaker B:And poor Kevin over here is like, I just want to talk about suppressors.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, I did a paper on England, right.
Speaker C:And London and how their firearms, you know, their handgun ban, right.
Speaker C:It pushed gun violence to the outskirts of the city.
Speaker C:And they're like, well, we, we won because we moved the violence, right.
Speaker C:We've moved guns out of the city.
Speaker C:And it's like, no, you didn't really win.
Speaker C:You disarmed people that are obeying the law.
Speaker C:And now the only people that live in the city that have firearms are criminals.
Speaker C:Those aren't the ones you want to have firearms.
Speaker B:I mean, they're going around with knife drop boxes, right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But you can't have a butter knife.
Speaker B:It's ridiculous.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker A:But I mean, I guess on the bright side for you guys, they are good on suppressing.
Speaker C:Yeah, good, good.
Speaker C:Ish.
Speaker C:I think everything that's wrapped up in the process of getting a suppressor is designed to discourage ownership of them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And to make them a scary assassin's weapon.
Speaker B:What I think it's you brought up earlier that you know how many congressmen believe these myths.
Speaker B:So what I encourage everybody to do is go to GSL's website, find that article and send it to your congressman.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Gsltechnology.com Right.
Speaker C:Right at the bottom has that 10 most common suppressor myths.
Speaker C:And you could copy the text from it and push that in.
Speaker C:You know that utility, right.
Speaker C:That's on the, on your website.
Speaker C:And it'd be really simple.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Let them Let them read it.
Speaker B:Let them go through and understand that these are just myths.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah,.
Speaker A:Obviously this has been a phenomenal conversation.
Speaker A:We got off on some tangents, but, you know, when do we not?
Speaker A:So I just want to thank you again for.
Speaker A:For joining us on this episode.
Speaker A:It's been incredibly exciting for everyone that is listening to this podcast.
Speaker A:Where can they find you?
Speaker A:How can they follow you guys and any last things that you want to say?
Speaker C:Well, thank you so much for having me on here.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I've got a link tree set up with all of our YouTube and Instagram and Facebook and everything.
Speaker C:It's at bit ly GSL links, L A N K S. And that has all the social channels and everything.
Speaker C:And so I'm just, you know, really happy to be here.
Speaker C:Thank you so much for your time, guys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, before you go, I always ask because this episode's gonna air in December.
Speaker B:There's this big event in January coming up in Vegas.
Speaker B:Maybe anything, Anything you'd like to tease or say?
Speaker C:Or we might possibly have a couple new suppressors being released at Shot Show.
Speaker C:Couple that are using some new baffle design technology, some incredible sound reduction.
Speaker C:So I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker C:Yeah, check us out at Shot Show.
Speaker C:I'll be there.
Speaker C:We'll see you guys.
Speaker B:Yeah, if you're at Shot show or any of the multiple suppressor events now being held around the country, definitely go stop by and say hi.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:Thank you so much, guys.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
