The Philosophy of Pythagoras: From Music to Soul

In this episode we discuss the teachings of Pythagoras, a major figure in ancient philosophy. The conversation covers his influence, particularly in mathematics, music, and his lasting impact on Western thought and Christian theology. Pythagoras's notion of the soul, especially the concept of the soul's transmigration and its contrast with Hebraic understanding, is explored in depth. The episode delves deeply into the philosophical and religious ideas that shaped Pythagoras’s theories and their implications.

00:29 Pythagoras and his 1,000 year influence

02:21 Historical Context and Influence

06:01 Philosophical and Religious Ideas

14:24 The Concept of Transmigration of the Soul

23:08 The Eternal and the Temporal: A Philosophical Dichotomy

23:30 The Soul's Imprisonment in the Body: Pythagoras to Plato

23:59 Christian Theology and the Body-Soul Dualism

24:34 Translating 'Soul': From Hebrew 'Nephesh' to Greek 'Psyche'

25:45 The Evolution of Language and Meaning

26:45 Theological Implications of Translation Choices

28:23 Understanding 'Nefesh' in the Hebrew Bible

31:20 The Greek 'Psyche' and Its Philosophical Baggage

34:00 Christianity's Fusion of Greek and Hebrew Thought

35:42 Practical Implications of Body-Soul Dualism

40:40 Concluding Thoughts on Body and Soul

Hello, Nathan.

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What's new.

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Nothing much.

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Family time hanging out.

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Enjoying the summer.

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enjoyed a nice, cool walk

this morning it was good.

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I took a walk this morning and also, yeah.

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for those who aren't familiar with this

area, Franklin Indiana has beautiful.

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park system and trails and all that.

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So Sure does.

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I don't know.

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I love it.

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can ride my bike pretty much from my

house to here all on trails, except

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for the last tiny little stretch.

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Yeah.

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I'm a little jealous

of that fact, but yeah.

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Anyway.

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Well today, we're looking

at the Yes, that's right.

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The math guy.

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Right?

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I think I learned about

him in middle school.

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Well, Yeah.

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I mean, there is that.

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But there's a lot, lot more.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was neat to see him

show up on the list.

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Cause I mean, when I hear his name,

I think of the Bataglia Anthem.

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And I might as well burst

your bubble right now.

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There's no proof that he invented that.

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Um, yeah.

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But it was used before his time by

the Babylonians and the Egyptians.

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Although either here his disciples, the

people came generation to apprehend,

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probably derive the first proofs for it.

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Hmm.

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Okay.

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And it got attached to his name.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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Well, Why don't you go ahead and

give us a little bit of an overview.

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You know, this one's

important because I feel like.

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He is one of the most influential

philosophers that are going to talk about.

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especially in the internet world.

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He's right up there to me with

Socrates and Plato and Aristotle.

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And that's, that's a Pretty high.

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Praise right there.

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That's pretty good company.

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And he's also a trust team.

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Because the length of

the movement, he started.

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how long it lasted in, history.

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You have a.

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Pathare and school or movement

the last a thousand years.

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Wow.

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Yeah, that's crazy.

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And then he's also interesting

just because, you know, you've

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heard that phrase someone's in.

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Introduced the myth, the man, the legend.

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The man, the myth, the legend.

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Yeah.

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Did I get it wrong?

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Okay.

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The man, the myth, the legend.

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Yeah.

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Well, he was all three of those.

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He was a man, but he was

more of a myth and a legend.

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Uh, at least by the time.

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History gets done with him.

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We know more about the

mythology and legends about it.

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And then we do about the person himself.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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I was wondering what you meant by that.

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Yup.

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And we'll talk about some of those myths

and legends are pretty interesting.

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Cool.

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Cool.

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So just to give us a frame of reference

about when in history was he alive?

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All right.

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So last time we talked about Sinatra.

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Neeson.

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I write about the same time period.

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We don't have the exact

dates, but five 70 BC.

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You have this man.

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being born.

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So The best guests that we have for his

dates would be about five 70 BC to 500 BC.

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And he was born, like all the other

philosophers we studied so far in Ionia.

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What would be the west

coast of Turkey today?

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Back then?

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All that was a Greek colony area.

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And, He was born a little bit

further up the coast than the others.

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He was born in.

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Sammas.

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Boss.

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But.

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Somewhat early in his life.

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He migrated.

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Over to Southern Italy and Southern

Italy and Sicily were all dominated

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by Greek speaking people at this time.

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So that was not an Italian

or a Roman culture.

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It was a Greek culture.

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And he settled in a town called Croton.

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Curtain.

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No.

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I don't think we get crew towns

from there, but it's a Croton.

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Okay.

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Gotcha.

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Yeah.

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C R O T O N E.

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And that's again in Southern Italy.

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Now they're in Croatan he established

something of a school or a community.

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And another reason he's important.

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He's the first one to really do that.

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At least that we know of.

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And it's something, like I said,

a school, a religious community.

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And after his death, this continued.

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And so Plato and Aristotle who are writing

may mainly in the third century, BC.

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They interacted with students who would

call themselves, but that Koreans.

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And then after that time period, is

influenced declined a little bit.

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But in the years after

Christ, after Christianity.

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So for the first and second

and third centuries, a D his

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influence comes roaring back.

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And it continues actually

up until about 500 Ady.

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Again, about a thousand years.

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And this later flowering of that

from say 200 to 500, usually

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goes by the name of Neoplatonism.

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So Neoplatonism was a

combination of Plato's ideas.

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All along with other ideas,

derived from Pythagoras, as

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well as some other influences.

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Oh, wow.

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And that Neoplatonism didn't

that, sparked some of the.

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Gnostics and a.

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DASA test.

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And my am.

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I remember that correctly.

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Yes.

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A lot of the early Christian heresies

were influenced by that, but also the

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church doctrine itself and church theology

are heavily influenced by Neoplatonism.

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Gotcha.

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yeah.

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We're beginning to see how.

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Even more so than in the past episode,

some of the philosophical roots that.

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We've adopted.

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And that have been infused

with Christianity even began.

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500 years before Christ.

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Exactly.

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And in this case, especially

the idea of the soul.

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. we get our idea of the soul.

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From him or his school at least.

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and not so much from what the

Bible says, even Christians today.

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I think are more influenced

by his theory of the soul.

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As a Greek writing 500.

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BC.

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Rather than the old Testament or new

Testament conception of what a soul is.

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So is that because Paul was influenced

a lot by him or is that kind of a.

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bad seed that's taken root

in Christian theology.

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I wouldn't say Paul so much

influenced by him, although.

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He was a Hellenized you, so there's

going to be some of that, but more

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the century is right after him.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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So when Christian theology

is first being formed.

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So this will be really helpful

in bringing clarity to.

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What the Greek conception of the soul

is so that we can hold that in one hand

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while looking at Jewish conception and

then the Christian conception of the soul.

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Right.

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I think it will be very helpful for that.

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At least that's my hope.

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I'm more excited about this episode

than probably any I've been so far.

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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There's light here.

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maybe third first though, we

should talk about the timeline

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of his life and thought.

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so again, He begins this.

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Community it's known as

this religious community.

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but it's also a philosophical school.

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That's heavily invested in

understanding math in music.

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So there's these different elements of it.

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It's religious community.

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We'll talk about some of their

strictures and rules in a minute.

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But it's also very much, invested in

studying math and viewing math is really

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the secret of the universe as it were.

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Related to that music.

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So they would view music and math

is kind of like sisters to each

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other, or Brad's a better way of

saying music is one map, Istation

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of the math in this of the universe.

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That seems like a really interesting,

weird fusion, philosophy, math and music.

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Yeah, I suppose it does.

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So help us understand

why those are related.

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Okay, well, let me first talk about.

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The religious idea a little bit,

because then I think we can deal

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holistically with the other ideas

and follow through that thought.

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The religious rituals and

rules of the community.

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Are not really that important

historically, but they do give some

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color to The Pythagorean society,

And they are known for their.

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Odd.

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Seemingly random rules.

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Such as.

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no eating of beans.

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So.

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No beans, no beans.

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Although there are some other

writers and said, no, no, they could.

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You could eat beans.

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Um, Do not stand on

your own nail clippings.

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I do not sit on a bushel.

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Never touch a white rooster.

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don't bury a corpse wearing wool clothes.

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these feel pretty bizarre and random.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, they do to less.

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And I suppose some of them have a

symbolic or ritualistic explanation.

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But if they do those

explanations are lost to us.

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Hmm.

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There is one other rule though,

that won't seem odd to us.

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And it will also become tied in with the

religious idea that philosophical ideas.

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Do not eat meat.

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Uh,

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huh.

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Why why that one.

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Well, they were the first community to

enforce vegetarianism that I know of.

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primarily because of their belief

in the trans migration of the soul.

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So other living beings have the same.

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Soul that we do just wrapped in.

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Different outer garment as it were.

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We'll come back to that idea.

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Maybe the first place to start.

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In regard to their philosophy

and math is this idea.

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The reality is in all, some way numbers.

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Hmm.

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So all reality is numbers I'm

trying to wrap my mind around it.

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Yeah.

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And don't worry if that sounds confusing.

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Aristotle said the idea was

barely comprehensible to him.

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And he's hardly an academic slouch, right?

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I mean, It makes sense that numbers are.

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Transcendent.

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they're immaterial.

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But yeah, that's a lot of it.

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To understand exactly

what he means by that.

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I mean, there's certainly are shapes

and a lot of geometry and a lot of.

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Physics.

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Is that what he's saying?

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That it underpins physics or something?

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Well, let me give you what Aristotle says.

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He thinks they mean by that because

he's a lot closer to it, obviously.

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he says, quote, Since they, the

Pythagoreans saw that the attributes

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and the ratios of their musical

skills were expressible in numbers.

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Since then all other things

seemed in their whole nature

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to be modeled after numbers.

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And numbers seem to be the first

things in the whole of nature.

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And the whole heaven to be

a musical scale and number.

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Oh, that's interesting.

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Right.

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And also like true.

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Cause we can now measure that

with wavelengths and all that.

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Right.

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So music is very, grounded in physics.

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Exactly.

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So kind of amazing that 2,500

years ago, They kind of knew that.

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Yeah, it is.

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They are credited to be in the first one.

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That's to understand.

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how numbers.

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Guide.

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the musical notes as it were.

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I'm not saying that very well,

but this is just totally new.

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Okay.

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Well, think if you have a string

that you're going to use any

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musical instruments, like a, like

a liar back then, And if you take

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two strings that are identical.

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But you stretch one of the, about twice

as much, then all of a sudden you've got

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exactly one octave about there, right?

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that was what they discovered was that

there was this mathematical proportion

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to the nose and especially the actives.

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so to them, Is seemed to be.

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That.

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Okay.

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Here's an element of reality.

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that is shaped by numbers

that we didn't know before.

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So there was a little bit of a conceptual

leap to thinking that all reality was

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life that we just had discovered it yet.

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Part of that came out of that was the very

ancient idea of the music of the spheres.

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the spheres being the spheres of heaven.

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the planets, the sun and the stars

and the moon that these all moved.

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In this mathematical order.

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And then if you had the right.

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instrument or.

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Facility, you could actually

hear the music that the

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spheres of the heavens produce.

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And that's going to be something that gets

carried over even into the middle ages.

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But that's interesting.

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because things that move do

oftentimes make noise, so yeah.

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No.

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So that's one way in

which you could say that.

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Everything is numbers.

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But they also went a little further.

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In the sense that the also viewed

numbers having this spiritual or

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psychological symbolism and significance.

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So different numbers

represented different things.

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You got an examples?

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I do.

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So The number two represents, man.

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And the number three represents woman.

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So it guess what five represents.

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Marriage.

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There you go.

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Great.

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Why do you know why.

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No.

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Okay.

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I mean, a lot of stuff has been lost.

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Yeah, that's it for his justice.

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I don't know why that either, but.

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so they had this whole symbolism.

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And then at the same time, they

also regarded numbers spatially.

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So one is a point.

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Two as a line.

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Three is a surface.

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Think of one side of the cube.

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and four is the solid.

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So 1, 2, 3, 4, you've got the

four, four different dimensions.

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all things.

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Are in those four

dimensions to some degree.

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But what's interesting here.

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If you add one and two and

three and four together.

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What do you get 10?

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Right.

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The perfect number.

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The perfect number 10.

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And if you take.

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10 dots.

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And you arrange them.

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So in the top row, you've got one row.

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You've got two spaced evenly.

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Rowan or that you've got three.

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And then under that, you've got four.

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What do you have?

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Symbolically triangle,

triangle or pyramid?

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Pyramid.

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Yeah.

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One of the greatest symbols

of the internet world has a

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lot of spiritual significance.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Points to the heavens.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Now.

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Let's go back to this

idea of number symbolism.

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Number ontology refers to the status

of numbers in the order of reality.

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So they held that numbers

for not only eternal.

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But the very building blocks of reality.

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The numbers could exist as

it were without the universe.

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And column brown summarizes it this way.

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Mathematical knowledge was not

simply a tool for research.

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It was a quasi religious

means of initiation.

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Into the mystery of being.

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So for us.

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We viewed numbers as a way to.

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Further understanding of.

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the different disciplines,

especially in the sciences.

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Right.

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But for them, it wouldn't beyond that.

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It was that, but it

wouldn't be on that as well.

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It was this means of

initiation into understanding.

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The mystery of being or what

the universe really meant.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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So there's a lot going on there.

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That's kind of hard to wrap my mind

around I'm just trying to think.

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It seems like every field.

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Now even there's a way to.

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Think about literature mathematically and.

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Language and grammar and

all that mathematically.

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So that's really interesting that.

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we can see how that's all

mathematical, but they're saying

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there's something even more.

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Religious or foundation or

philosophical about the math.

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Yeah.

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That's just totally different from

anything I've ever thought about.

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Hm.

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Well, it all started here.

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And we can see why this was so

attractive to people, right?

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Yeah.

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Because you have this thing,

we're all familiar with numbers.

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But now.

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This thing is key to understanding

the whole meaning of the universe.

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It's accessible to anyone.

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In one sense.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But these were also taught as secret

doctrines for, Many generations, huh?

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. Now, one other.

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Item here.

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And this is probably

the most consequential.

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Is there idea of the trans

migration of the soul.

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The trans migration of the soul.

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Sometimes we call that reincarnation.

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And remember.

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The very first.

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Episode in this playlist about

the history of philosophy.

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We talked about this idea.

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buried very deep within Greek history and.

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psychology.

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Of this shapeless stream undergirding,

all reality and living things spill out

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of the stream into the physical reality.

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For a while and then they dissolve.

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And then they die and

it's all back into it.

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Do you remember us talking about that?

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Yeah.

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All right.

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It's kinda been a whole theme

throughout all the podcast, But I

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know we've talked a lot about it and

discussing Eastern thought as well.

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So I know that there's been a lot of

overlap and even through this history

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of philosophy, Set of podcasts.

415

it's emerged up again.

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Right.

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And part of the reason I wanted to

talk about that is because I think

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it's not talked about very much.

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In the other history of

philosophies I've, read.

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For whatever reason.

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Partly because it's, almost

more of a religious idea.

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Than a philosophical idea, perhaps.

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or mythological idea

rather than something.

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That the philosophers argued about.

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Can you, Remind me that the difference

between the philosophy and the

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religion there as you're using it.

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Well, in their culture, there

really wasn't a distinction.

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But from our terminology.

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It would have a religious aspect

to it because it was closely

430

associated with the miss.

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of antiquity.

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So before the Olympian gods, that

Homer, for example, we talked about,

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there was already this type of,

God worship is more of this nature.

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God's arising out of

this shapeless stream.

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And there was also a religion

associated with this organism.

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But even before or prism, which came

about a little bit before Protagoras,

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perhaps it's not exactly clear.

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But even before that, All the

way back to the Minoan situation.

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The Minoans on Crete, which is really the.

440

The bed as it were the seedbed of

Greek thought you had religious rituals

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attached to this, trying to experience

the oneness with that shapeless dream.

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Through going into the earth, having

these hallucinogenic agents given to you

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experienced in this static union, and we

have psychologically so anyway, that's

444

what I mean, it was attached to all

these religious practices and beliefs.

445

But you really see that coming back here.

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Hm, and it's going to influence Play-Doh.

447

I mean, Plato's conception of

the soul is going to be based.

448

Probably more with accuracy.

449

Chris and anybody else.

450

And Pythagoras is based on

organism and its predecessors.

451

Which are religions.

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Yeah.

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The idea.

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I think that we can separate

religion for philosophy.

455

Is not one that you can

prove from the history books.

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They've always run their foundation.

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Then intertwined together.

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Yeah, that's helpful.

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That's okay.

460

That's a long digression.

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No.

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That's okay.

463

It's helpful.

464

Cause you're saying they're

intertwined, but just understanding

465

the distinction there is good.

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Yeah.

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So the earliest, I can figure it out

of this idea is the shapeless stream.

468

Again, going all the way

back to the civilization.

469

On Crete.

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the shapeless dream of which

living things come into and out of.

471

But orf ism.

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Apparently for what we know of it.

473

And certainly Pythagoras.

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I took that one step beyond so that

when a person or an animal dies.

475

It's soul and body are separated.

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The body decaying while the soul,

which is probably this aspect of

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the shapeless stream is then reborn

into another animal or human body.

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So From what I understand anyway.

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Originally in that shapeless dream

idea, it was just one of the thing died.

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It's life horse.

481

As a word, went back

to the shapeless dream.

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Here it has its own individual.

483

status it's its own individual entity.

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this eternal soul that you would have.

485

And so, again, It's almost

like you changing clothes.

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So you get up in the morning.

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You put on one set of clothes and the next

day you put on a different set of clothes.

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You take one off, put the other on.

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The soul takes on a form

of an animal or a human.

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Like you put on clothes and then it

discards that in a where something else.

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Now.

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That idea.

493

Is going to be so influential

In the thought of philosophy.

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really the whole.

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Western thought and in

Christian theology as well.

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Because of the reincarnation of the

solar, just because he makes A distinction

497

between body and soul, mainly that okay.

498

So Christians don't believe

in reincarnation, right?

499

So I don't believe in the

trans migration of the soul.

500

But we have inherited many of us anyway.

501

This belief that the soul and the body

are fundamentally different things.

502

Yeah.

503

But my soul lives on right now,

what I want to get across here.

504

That goes back to Rigorous,

not the old Testament.

505

Really?

506

Yes.

507

This is called the introduction of mind

body dualism or the soul body dualism.

508

The idea being that you are

two things as a human being.

509

You are your soul, or sometimes

you would call it your spirit.

510

And your body.

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And that your soul.

512

Naturally can live without your body.

513

it has this eternal status apart

from your body and therefore

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when you die, You cast off.

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Your body, but you live,

disembodied existence in heaven.

516

Wow.

517

So you're saying that that's not.

518

scriptural.

519

That is not the teaching of the old

Testament, or I believe the new Testament.

520

That's huge.

521

Yeah, it is.

522

It is.

523

And I think.

524

If I could help people.

525

It was Christian.

526

So if I could help Christians

understand one thing.

527

Throughout all the things we've been doing

so far about the history of philosophy.

528

It is this idea.

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That this idea of the body soul dualism.

530

Is an idea from Greek thought

that we do not have to believe it.

531

We can choose to believe it.

532

We can say, oh, well, they got the right.

533

But we have to recognize

that we're doing that.

534

Not because of the Bible.

535

But because of something we're saying

the Bible OSI one about or wrong

536

about, but we're adding onto that now.

537

Hmm.

538

So you think that this is a.

539

I don't know if this is the right word,

but you think it's a bad philosophy.

540

That's been imposed on scripture.

541

We read scripture through the lens

of this Greek philosophy, but in

542

some way, actually taints the.

543

goodness of the truth of scripture.

544

Yes.

545

That's what I think.

546

Wow.

547

Yeah.

548

And I become more convinced about

the more I've thought through

549

and read things over the years.

550

I think we have.

551

Uh, conception of the human soul that

is more formed by Greek culture than,

552

the Christian or Hebrew scriptures.

553

And that's a bad thing for us.

554

I would love for you to unpack.

555

Why.

556

That's so bad because

just thinking about this.

557

It seems like, okay, so maybe we got that

wrong, but how, bad can it really be?

558

Th to think that that's, that

there's a body soul dualism.

559

Okay.

560

So, let me flush this out a bit,

and then we'll talk about the

561

Hebrew thought in the old Testament.

562

And then we'll see how they contrast.

563

So If the trans migration

of souls is correct.

564

Then body and soul are

two distinct things.

565

Not just two different ways of

talking about the human person.

566

Like you could be called a male,

you could be called an American.

567

You could be called a dad.

568

You're all of those things.

569

It's just a different

way of talking about you.

570

Sure.

571

But that's not what this is.

572

the body and the soul then

are two distinct things.

573

and one is not the attribute

of another, like would, could

574

be an attribute of the table.

575

No they're distinct one can't

exist without the other.

576

And they're not only distinct.

577

And here's where we get to some

of the implications of this.

578

But they are.

579

Two different kinds of things.

580

So the body and soul are not just separate

things, but two different kind of things.

581

Like you and I, we both

have a nose, right.

582

Those are two separate noses.

583

But they're fundamentally

the same kind of thing.

584

Yeah.

585

But when you think of something,

say, In emotion, like bravery.

586

And then something else, like a rock.

587

Those are different kinds of things.

588

Right.

589

They're not two things at the same

kind with the same characteristics.

590

They work in different ways.

591

Different spheres have

different attributes.

592

And.

593

The soul body dualism says that the

soul and the body are fundamentally

594

different kinds of things.

595

Now, if this is true.

596

Which one's more valuable.

597

I mean, go back to the illustration

we talked about before.

598

You changing your clothes.

599

Who's more important or

which is more valuable.

600

You are the coolest you change into

one day and out of the next me.

601

Yeah.

602

Obviously.

603

Because the one is here for a while.

604

but it's going to be discarded.

605

You do away with it.

606

The other is eternal.

607

And it has inherent value.

608

So what happens here is that not only do

you have two distinct things being taught?

609

But one of those is eternal

and valuable and precious.

610

And the other really

doesn't matter that much.

611

Yeah.

612

Yeah.

613

Or it can even be a hindrance.

614

And so one of the ideas that will come

about, I dunno, Pythagoras and self-taught

615

this, but his successors certainly did.

616

And Play-Doh picked up on it.

617

And Plato is the big guy.

618

Is this idea that the soul

is imprisoned in the body.

619

That the body.

620

Is an unnatural home for the soul.

621

The soul wants to be free a bit.

622

Um, therefore.

623

The body's not only less valuable than the

soul, but it's a detriment to the soul.

624

Yeah.

625

That carries over as you can probably

see pretty easily into Christian

626

theology, especially to the middle ages.

627

And that does seem to make sense.

628

I mean, as we get older, Our bodies do

to K while our spirits can stay strong.

629

Yeah.

630

And a lot of people can still, in

a sense, feel imprisoned by the

631

pain and The decay of the body.

632

Sorry.

633

Get that in a sense, but see what you're

saying, that it can be dangerous to have

634

such a stark distinction between the two.

635

Yes.

636

Yes.

637

And especially when we compare it to the

biblical idea of how those words are used.

638

obviously, if you look at the Hebrew

Bible and you read it in Hebrew,

639

you don't find the word soul.

640

the Greek word, which will come later

that we've been talking about is suitcase.

641

Right?

642

But we're talking about Hebrew.

643

So before the Greek new

Testament, And, the word.

644

That will be translated as soul

When the Hebrew eventually gets

645

translated into Greek in like

the century or two before Christ.

646

In the Septuagint.

647

Yes, exactly.

648

is the Hebrew word,

nefesh, nefesh, nefesh.

649

Okay.

650

Yeah.

651

So when the translators at the Septuagint,

like I said, a century to before Christ.

652

When they took the Hebrew old

Testament and put it into Greek.

653

They took the word nefesh in Hebrew.

654

When they saw that say there, they've

got this verse or this passage.

655

And they're gonna put that in Greek.

656

They're going to use the word suitcase.

657

That's.

658

Perhaps the inevitable, but

it was also very unfortunate.

659

So.

660

So it was a Greek.

661

Greek language shouldn't have a better

word for it, but it doesn't capture

662

All of the meaning of the Hebrew word.

663

Right.

664

Now in one sense.

665

It was probably the best choice

because originally suitcase had an

666

equivalent to what nefesh means.

667

We'll talk about that in a second.

668

But by the first century, That

original meaning had morphed

669

into something that has so much.

670

Baggage of so many

philosophical overtones.

671

That when Christians began reading that.

672

They were Greeks who were formed in this.

673

And this language with this

understanding of the word.

674

And they're gonna report that into it.

675

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

676

So these are guys who grew up in the.

677

Cultural air.

678

Of.

679

Patronistic philosophy.

680

Yeah, even though they wouldn't know it.

681

I mean, They may have never heard, heard

the name Plato or read any of his works.

682

But yeah, the whole Mediterranean

world, there was Hellenized

683

Greek guised, as it were.

684

The conception of sukay is.

685

Like you said, it's got a

lot of, uh, philosophical,

686

overtones borrowed from that.

687

Exactly.

688

This is an important thing.

689

I think for people to realize that.

690

Bible translation is not a one-to-one.

691

Exactly.

692

correlation.

693

And so translating from Hebrew to Greek.

694

Doesn't always fit neatly in

the same thing from Hebrew to

695

English or Greek to English.

696

Exactly.

697

But then also something

that's super interesting.

698

We've seen it in English.

699

Go and read Shakespeare is that

language changes over time.

700

And so that adds another layer of, okay.

701

Suki, like you said, may have met

one thing when it was translated

702

to a jam, but then by the time.

703

The early disciples of

Jesus are reading it.

704

And the people who have been

brought in for the Gentile nations.

705

are reading it or listening to it.

706

They're thinking about

something different.

707

Yeah.

708

Words change.

709

Like you said.

710

But we can also trace the meaning of the

words as we see them in context and other.

711

places.

712

Sure.

713

So we can see, okay.

714

This word has changed over time.

715

like, you're saying.

716

Like suitcase at one point may have

meant something different than suitcase.

717

500 years later.

718

Exactly.

719

So we can.

720

see how it's using context to

help us understand a meaning.

721

So that's, been the beautiful thing about

linguistic scholarship, as you can see.

722

So anyway, so you said.

723

Yeah.

724

that's one of the things you learn

when you take professional studies

725

to be a pastor, or sometimes the

professor, depending on in her field.

726

As you learn how words change.

727

And one of the tools that

people want to check me on this.

728

The standard.

729

way of understanding biblical words, the

best reference has been used for almost a

730

hundred years, Would be the theological

dictionary of the new Testament.

731

It's like 13 huge vines, very technical.

732

And you can look at suitcase

and they will then go through.

733

The history of that.

734

But as part of that, they dealt

very deeply into the old Testament.

735

words that were translated

that including nefesh.

736

So they've got all long section on nefesh.

737

They've got a huge one

section on suitcase.

738

And you can, that.

739

anyway, so the word nefesh.

740

Is going to be used over 700 times in the

Hebrew old Testament or the Hebrew Bible.

741

And it has the idea basically of.

742

Breath.

743

Sometimes it's even used for the throat.

744

I think it says Joseph when he was in

prison, had a bar around his nefesh.

745

So probably his neck.

746

So originally it meant

something like the breath or.

747

Life for super person.

748

Because when you stop breathing,

You stop living right.

749

So it has this idea of, a life force.

750

Now more broadly that's it's.

751

Etymological use and one of the word

begins, but more broadly, it was just

752

used to refer to any living, being.

753

That had breath in them.

754

So even animals in Genesis,

one are called nefesh.

755

Adam and Eve and the living

creatures are called nefesh.

756

So like breathers.

757

The breathers.

758

Yeah.

759

Basically, If you wanted a

full definition there would be.

760

Living beings who breathe

or something like that.

761

Hmm, or living beans.

762

And then parentheses.

763

We know that there are living

beings because they breathe.

764

So that's kind of the idea.

765

And so most of the time in the

old Testament, It is used simply

766

to refer to the whole persons.

767

Like in the Noah's Arthur.

768

Eight nefesh aboard, you know?

769

it start referring to an individual inner

part of you as opposed to your body.

770

It just means.

771

The whole of who you are.

772

So like personality.

773

Well kind of, but.

774

Awesome.

775

Good.

776

All of you.

777

Yeah.

778

Okay.

779

You are a nefesh.

780

You don't have enough fish.

781

You are in that much.

782

In my entirety.

783

Yeah.

784

Nathan.

785

Yeah.

786

You're just a living being.

787

Yeah.

788

You're still living big.

789

And they're not trying to divide you up

into different compartments or categories.

790

You're just delivering bean and

it's like in the old usage, enabled

791

terminology, when a ship goes down,

And see how many souls were lost.

792

Well, you just mean how

many people died, right?

793

Yeah.

794

Yeah.

795

that's the primary usage.

796

Of nefesh.

797

So it's almost always going to mean that.

798

And when it doesn't, it usually has,

if it's a breath or breathing, So in,

799

in Joseph's case that that bar was

Restricting breathing or something or

800

possibly but originally it probably

meant neck or breath because.

801

Those two things that are

associated with each other.

802

. I mean, I think of the word heart, you

know, and all that that's involved in.

803

Uh, body part, but it has this meaning.

804

So neck or throat has this

idea of the livingness.

805

So I think that's how the.

806

edible logical drift as it were works.

807

So it's the entirety of a person.

808

Yes.

809

Or living being.

810

Yeah.

811

And the Bible project has a great video

as well as a longer podcast about this.

812

And basically they just bring this out.

813

In biblical terminology.

814

And the old Testament,

you do not have a soul.

815

You are a soul.

816

You don't have a nefesh.

817

You are a nefesh.

818

Now, originally.

819

That is also.

820

More or less than meaning of

suitcase in the Greek world.

821

So if you look at Homer's time, And

from what we can tell pre Homer.

822

We don't have a lot of Greek.

823

Before Homer, It has that same idea

of throat or breadth of her person.

824

And then it drifts into this idea of.

825

The living breath of a person again.

826

This idea very similar to nefesh.

827

It's here with.

828

that That word suitcase.

829

Biggest getting all this

other baggage of this.

830

Inner part of you.

831

That can exist without the body.

832

That's eternal.

833

That is.

834

So intertwined with your

mind and your ideas, and it

835

doesn't really need the body.

836

Even the body could be an

imprisonment for this thing.

837

that is going to start.

838

Here.

839

but from that, then it's going to drift

into the mainstream, our brief thought.

840

Especially by the time Play-Doh.

841

Gets it.

842

Remember, Plato's the big guy, right?

843

Plato is the one who really

sets the standard and the

844

definitions and the meanings.

845

And so for him, he's going

to take mainly this idea.

846

And he is going to develop

this idea of the soul.

847

As something apart from the body.

848

That the body.

849

Uh, in many ways is inimicable to,

you know, It's not suited to this.

850

No.

851

I'm talking too much.

852

Do you have your question there?

853

I have one more.

854

Forgot about this.

855

So it's just has a new idea.

856

But he's, co-opting old language

and language creates culture.

857

Yeah.

858

So he's, giving an old word.

859

A new definition.

860

And we see this happen all

the time in English, too.

861

Sure.

862

Um, giving an old word, a

new definition that has.

863

Opened up in a sense people's eyes

to think about it in a new way.

864

Yeah.

865

And that's.

866

Is what it is, but, That can

be difficult, especially when.

867

What he's trying to describe.

868

Isn't necessarily.

869

the right thing.

870

I don't know.

871

This is a hard thing

to kind of talk about.

872

Cause I'm trying to wrap

my mind around it as well.

873

Sure.

874

Yeah.

875

So.

876

Just backing up then.

877

This is around 500 BC.

878

Plato is going to be.

879

a century to later than that.

880

And.

881

All this thought.

882

Then it's going to be changing about what

this word or this concept of the soul is.

883

testaments can be translated from

Hebrew into Greek using that word

884

suitcase for nefesh after all that.

885

So centuries after this has begun.

886

And it's going to be red.

887

And understood by people in the

Greek world, in the last part of.

888

The first century.

889

So Christianity secure to move out

of his Jewish roots in Palestine.

890

Or Israel.

891

Into the broader Hellenized world,

last half of the first century.

892

Beginning of second century

and into the third century.

893

Into cultures and places where people

already think they know what the soul is.

894

So when they read that word, suitcase,

soul, In the Greek new Testament.

895

They are going to define it by

what they think that word means.

896

Not necessarily trace back.

897

how to Hebrew equivalent is

used in the old Testament.

898

Yeah.

899

That makes sense.

900

Yeah, This idea then of this.

901

Body.

902

Soul dualism.

903

Is going.

904

To go all through.

905

Great culture and into

Christianity because of that.

906

Christian theology is a fusion.

907

Of Greek thought.

908

And Hebrew revelation and

new Testament revelation.

909

It's a fusion of those two things.

910

It is not pure.

911

the scripture.

912

And I think we have to keep that in mind.

913

I didn't realize this 20, 23 years ago.

914

I would've thought that that

was a huge overstatement.

915

I don't think it is now.

916

Hmm.

917

it might be an overstatement to

some degree, but it's not a big one.

918

So you have with an all this

time period, then this idea.

919

That the soul is eternal.

920

The soul is valuable.

921

The soul is precious.

922

It.

923

It's elevated.

924

It's part of this.

925

Eternal world or forums,

according to Plato.

926

And the body is part of this

world of form down here.

927

And it's going to be disposed of

it's like changing your clothes

928

and actually the passions.

929

And the body work against

the formation of the soul.

930

They, warp it.

931

When you have that.

932

Then you're going to end up.

933

One of two ways.

934

In how people live.

935

One way.

936

Is.

937

they're going to have

the severe aestheticism.

938

So you're going to deny bodily.

939

Italy pleasure so that you

could purify your soul.

940

And you're going to see that carried

out, especially in regards to food

941

and drink and sex, because those

are the most bodily pleasures.

942

We have usually.

943

And, even into the middle ages,

you would have these things

944

viewed as necessary evils at best.

945

Hmm.

946

I remember reading an account of a woman.

947

Who was questioned by the inquisition.

948

because of some things going on

in their village and everything.

949

And she related the questions

that they were asking.

950

And, they asked a lot of questions

asked about her sex life.

951

And they, she said, well, yeah,

You know, we have children.

952

It's a, my husband and I have had sex.

953

And.

954

And they said.

955

I said, did.

956

Did you ever had sex for the

purposes of not having children?

957

And then they ask, did you ever enjoy

sex and the idea being you better answer?

958

No.

959

Yeah.

960

that was just one sliver one way

that that whole attitude towards

961

human sexuality was warped by this.

962

So one way that you deal with this, then.

963

Is by.

964

Trying to avoid all the

bodily pleasures that you can.

965

You know, you have to have

some, you have to eat.

966

You have to drink you.

967

I don't have to have sex,

but if you want your.

968

Religion to keep on growing.

969

You kind of do.

970

But you want to minimize it?

971

placed restrictions on it.

972

The other way.

973

I've.

974

I've got a quick story.

975

If I go ahead.

976

I heard the story of an old

Benedictine monks, who They used

977

to wear shirts made of camel hair.

978

In order to denigrate the body to

try to, I guess part of that was to.

979

get rid of their body.

980

Pleasures and that sort of thing

for the purpose of letting the.

981

Sole be free from that.

982

Yeah.

983

I also heard.

984

A story of a monk who would, throw himself

in thorn bushes for the same purpose.

985

Okay.

986

The body, needs to be denied

in order to set the sole free.

987

So to speak.

988

So.

989

Yeah, certainly.

990

My reading of church history.

991

I've seen that a lot.

992

Yeah.

993

That reminds me.

994

I was reading in Colassians Where

Paul, The author of collections.

995

Is arguing against the philosophy

that was already taking root in the

996

first century when he's writing this.

997

And here's what he writes

in Colassians two 16.

998

therefore do not let anyone judge

you by what you eat or drink, or with

999

regard to a religious festival, a new

moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

00:38:06,726 --> 00:38:09,216

These are a shadow of the

things that were to come.

00:38:09,426 --> 00:38:11,406

The reality, however, is found in Christ.

00:38:11,856 --> 00:38:14,886

Do not let anyone who delights

in false humility and the

00:38:14,886 --> 00:38:16,776

worship of angels disqualify you.

00:38:17,176 --> 00:38:18,676

Since you died with Christ.

00:38:18,706 --> 00:38:21,406

Do the elemental spiritual

forces of this world.

00:38:21,466 --> 00:38:24,016

Why as though you still

belong to the world.

00:38:24,376 --> 00:38:25,846

Do you submit to its rules?

00:38:26,146 --> 00:38:29,656

Quote, do not handle, do

not taste, do not touch.

00:38:30,346 --> 00:38:33,646

These rules, which have to do with

things that are all destined to

00:38:33,646 --> 00:38:37,396

perish with use are based on merely

human commands and teachings.

00:38:37,859 --> 00:38:42,479

Such regulations indeed have an appearance

of wisdom with their self-imposed worship.

00:38:42,839 --> 00:38:44,279

There are false humility.

00:38:44,699 --> 00:38:46,619

And their harsh treatment of the body.

00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:50,759

But they lack any value in

restraining sensual indulgence.

00:38:51,209 --> 00:38:54,819

So already mixed up somehow with

the collage inherency was this

00:38:54,819 --> 00:38:56,469

harsh treatment of the body.

00:38:57,189 --> 00:38:57,489

Yeah.

00:38:57,539 --> 00:38:59,339

all these rules don't eat.

00:38:59,369 --> 00:39:00,509

Don't touch.

00:39:00,539 --> 00:39:01,589

Don't handle, right.

00:39:02,259 --> 00:39:06,916

Now I said that was one road you go

down when you have this, body soul.

00:39:06,916 --> 00:39:07,726

Dualism right.

00:39:08,086 --> 00:39:10,996

The other, which has to be

far, far popular is that say.

00:39:11,626 --> 00:39:15,046

Okay, well then if the spirits,

the only thing that matters and

00:39:15,046 --> 00:39:17,626

the body doesn't matter, I can

do whatever I want with my body.

00:39:18,226 --> 00:39:22,666

And then it doesn't matter because my

soul is all the support, so I can go out

00:39:22,666 --> 00:39:24,466

and I can eat, drink, you'll be married.

00:39:24,676 --> 00:39:26,806

I can go out and have sexual morality.

00:39:27,136 --> 00:39:29,026

I can go out and do all these things.

00:39:29,086 --> 00:39:30,226

I can get drunk or whatever.

00:39:30,526 --> 00:39:33,316

And those are just bodily sense,

so they don't really count.

00:39:33,466 --> 00:39:33,526

Hmm.

00:39:34,186 --> 00:39:36,496

So you have a Libertine spirit.

00:39:36,616 --> 00:39:39,609

And Paul talked about that too,

in some of his, uh, pencils.

00:39:39,939 --> 00:39:42,976

So why in Paul's world

already in the first century?

00:39:43,606 --> 00:39:46,336

He was warning some people

against these self-imposed.

00:39:46,336 --> 00:39:49,906

Rules and other people against

saying, well, the body for

00:39:49,906 --> 00:39:51,466

food And food for the body.

00:39:51,856 --> 00:39:54,376

And so it doesn't matter what I

do with my body, you know, it's.

00:39:55,139 --> 00:39:57,389

so he's warning against

them at the same time.

00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:00,029

And that's because of this.

00:40:00,029 --> 00:40:02,253

Body soul dualism.

00:40:02,696 --> 00:40:06,176

And adhering to that instead of

those Hebrew idea that the body.

00:40:06,176 --> 00:40:08,276

Is a good gift of God.

00:40:08,766 --> 00:40:10,716

an essential part of who we are.

00:40:11,406 --> 00:40:15,246

And it is as much a gift of

God and valuable God's side

00:40:15,276 --> 00:40:16,806

as any other part of us.

00:40:17,376 --> 00:40:17,766

Wow.

00:40:18,576 --> 00:40:18,876

Yeah.

00:40:18,996 --> 00:40:19,536

Yeah.

00:40:19,763 --> 00:40:21,533

I guess I never noticed.

00:40:21,983 --> 00:40:25,643

Those two sides stemming from

this philosophical stream

00:40:25,643 --> 00:40:27,686

of the body, soul dualism.

00:40:27,836 --> 00:40:28,076

Yeah.

00:40:28,613 --> 00:40:29,933

Yeah, that's how I read it anyway.

00:40:30,203 --> 00:40:31,013

So that's huge.

00:40:31,013 --> 00:40:32,363

So you're saying, is that.

00:40:32,753 --> 00:40:33,953

I am.

00:40:34,279 --> 00:40:35,239

In a sense.

00:40:35,629 --> 00:40:36,229

My body.

00:40:36,589 --> 00:40:38,299

I am in a sense, my

spirit, those two things.

00:40:38,299 --> 00:40:38,869

Aren't separate.

00:40:39,049 --> 00:40:39,739

They're not separate.

00:40:40,399 --> 00:40:44,273

Now, obviously Christian teaching

does have the idea that this

00:40:44,273 --> 00:40:45,983

particular body that we're in.

00:40:46,613 --> 00:40:48,683

Isn't our final form as it were.

00:40:49,313 --> 00:40:50,033

Or that.

00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:53,709

When it dies that we are

extinct as an individual.

00:40:54,459 --> 00:40:56,739

But has the idea rather than this.

00:40:56,739 --> 00:40:59,679

Forms of basis somehow in God's power.

00:41:00,069 --> 00:41:02,739

For a new type of embodied existence.

00:41:03,849 --> 00:41:06,669

So it's not clear to me that

you can get any teaching.

00:41:06,669 --> 00:41:11,966

From the new Testament or the old that

the soul can exist apart from the body.

00:41:12,536 --> 00:41:12,806

Hmm.

00:41:12,856 --> 00:41:14,386

I've seen some people make that argument.

00:41:14,386 --> 00:41:16,306

It's not clear to me that there.

00:41:16,326 --> 00:41:17,556

Persuasive about that.

00:41:17,556 --> 00:41:18,426

It seems to me.

00:41:18,609 --> 00:41:20,739

The drift of most of the teaching.

00:41:20,739 --> 00:41:22,603

About the human personality.

00:41:22,623 --> 00:41:26,193

Is that we are designed

to live as bodily beings.

00:41:26,673 --> 00:41:27,993

And that will always be the case.

00:41:28,293 --> 00:41:30,573

That's the way God designed it as humans.

00:41:30,873 --> 00:41:32,073

He's not giving up on that.

00:41:32,673 --> 00:41:36,003

It's a beautiful expression

of his wisdom to have bodied.

00:41:36,003 --> 00:41:36,873

Humans.

00:41:36,873 --> 00:41:40,473

Representing him, the

invisible disembodied spirit.

00:41:41,766 --> 00:41:43,506

again, that's how I understand it.

00:41:43,806 --> 00:41:47,586

Is it first Corinthians 15 or first

Corinthians 16, where he goes into

00:41:47,586 --> 00:41:50,076

detail about the, the resurrected bodies.

00:41:50,886 --> 00:41:51,996

00:41:52,926 --> 00:41:54,636

And so there is continuity.

00:41:54,756 --> 00:41:56,976

I mean, the illustration

he gives is a, seed that.

00:41:57,619 --> 00:41:58,789

As our current bodies.

00:41:58,789 --> 00:41:59,929

Goes in the ground and dies.

00:42:00,799 --> 00:42:04,669

But it resurrected, it becomes

a, tree or a plant or something.

00:42:04,849 --> 00:42:07,999

So there's continuity informed,

but there's still this form.

00:42:08,809 --> 00:42:10,339

It's not okay to see it goes.

00:42:10,369 --> 00:42:10,819

And then.

00:42:11,019 --> 00:42:13,459

something that's just

spiritual comms is that.

00:42:13,669 --> 00:42:15,289

It's new, having a new earth.

00:42:15,463 --> 00:42:17,023

we're still embodied beings.

00:42:18,163 --> 00:42:20,413

Now, just for clarification, is there.

00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:22,189

Maybe we don't want to

get into this now, but.

00:42:23,089 --> 00:42:24,889

Are you using soul and spirit?

00:42:24,889 --> 00:42:27,939

Synonymously We'll try to

make the distinction that where

00:42:27,939 --> 00:42:30,109

tripartite, Body, soul, and spirit.

00:42:30,469 --> 00:42:32,209

I've never really understood that.

00:42:32,446 --> 00:42:34,726

I haven't really explored

it either, but yeah.

00:42:35,253 --> 00:42:38,263

I tend to use it synonymously I do that.

00:42:38,263 --> 00:42:41,593

unconsciously, however, I'm not

trying to use them synonymously.

00:42:41,953 --> 00:42:45,196

It's just that they're so

associated with the inner aspect

00:42:45,196 --> 00:42:47,656

of man or speaking of humans.

00:42:47,676 --> 00:42:49,386

Inner side, you know?

00:42:50,016 --> 00:42:51,873

The mind thought heart.

00:42:52,356 --> 00:42:56,286

As far as I can tell the scriptures,

do not use consistent terminology.

00:42:56,706 --> 00:42:57,846

When speaking of.

00:42:57,846 --> 00:43:00,936

Mind body spirit as three separate parts.

00:43:01,439 --> 00:43:04,049

Sometimes soul and spirit

seem to be used synonymously.

00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:04,499

Okay.

00:43:04,859 --> 00:43:05,639

Yeah, I was just curious.

00:43:05,669 --> 00:43:05,909

Yeah.

00:43:06,329 --> 00:43:07,019

But of course.

00:43:07,243 --> 00:43:07,453

Soul.

00:43:07,693 --> 00:43:08,353

His suitcase.

00:43:08,883 --> 00:43:10,683

the spirit would be pneuma.

00:43:10,683 --> 00:43:12,783

which has, has the idea of breath again.

00:43:13,393 --> 00:43:17,286

very much relate to the original

idea of suitcase or, or nefesh.

00:43:17,526 --> 00:43:20,753

Um, so I, don't think the

Bible intends to use those.

00:43:21,233 --> 00:43:22,433

As separate parts of human.

00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:22,913

Humans.

00:43:22,943 --> 00:43:24,683

It's just uses different words.

00:43:24,903 --> 00:43:27,903

We're kind of the same concept

is how I would understand it.

00:43:28,413 --> 00:43:28,773

Gotcha.

00:43:28,983 --> 00:43:29,343

Gotcha.

00:43:30,963 --> 00:43:32,343

So . Yeah.

00:43:32,373 --> 00:43:33,033

That's a lot there.

00:43:33,033 --> 00:43:33,243

Huh?

00:43:33,333 --> 00:43:35,403

So I thought this was going

to be a short episode.

00:43:35,403 --> 00:43:35,853

I really did.

00:43:35,943 --> 00:43:36,843

It's just so it's.

00:43:37,113 --> 00:43:37,413

So fast.

00:43:37,443 --> 00:43:38,703

Fascinating that we're.

00:43:38,736 --> 00:43:41,856

Still, working through some of the

things that Batangas was working

00:43:41,856 --> 00:43:44,113

through, even outside of geometry class.

00:43:44,383 --> 00:43:44,713

Right.

00:43:46,573 --> 00:43:49,813

Probably the least important thing

about him from our Point of view anyway.

00:43:49,933 --> 00:43:50,293

Wow.

00:43:50,863 --> 00:43:51,133

Yeah.

00:43:51,586 --> 00:43:54,233

I feel like this will be a

conversation that we'll continue

00:43:54,233 --> 00:43:56,653

to work through as we get into.

00:43:56,653 --> 00:43:58,453

Plato and others.

00:43:58,753 --> 00:43:59,143

Yeah, sure.

00:43:59,173 --> 00:44:03,469

Well, cause this seems huge and I'm

really interested in continuing to.

00:44:03,469 --> 00:44:05,059

Think through the way that the.

00:44:05,096 --> 00:44:07,496

Body soul dualism has affected.

00:44:07,496 --> 00:44:09,476

Christianity and also.

00:44:09,476 --> 00:44:11,246

the implications of all that, right.

00:44:11,756 --> 00:44:12,896

So, yeah.

00:44:12,926 --> 00:44:15,116

And again, I think we're seeing here.

00:44:15,206 --> 00:44:19,563

The truth of that aphorism that we

started this whole playlist or the series

00:44:19,593 --> 00:44:20,913

about the history of philosophy about.

00:44:21,753 --> 00:44:23,669

We studied history not true.

00:44:23,699 --> 00:44:24,839

Remember the past, but to.

00:44:24,869 --> 00:44:25,859

Understand the present.

00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:28,319

And that's how this has helped me.

00:44:28,319 --> 00:44:29,819

And I hope it helps other people that way.

00:44:30,389 --> 00:44:30,809

Yeah.

00:44:31,769 --> 00:44:32,129

Cool.

00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:32,489

Cool.

00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:34,649

So what we do in the

body really does matter.

00:44:34,709 --> 00:44:35,159

It does.

00:44:35,819 --> 00:44:39,809

And, uh, we shouldn't just say I, well,

it doesn't matter because it's gonna go

00:44:39,809 --> 00:44:41,549

to hell in a hand basket or not that.

00:44:41,759 --> 00:44:43,199

Uh, it doesn't matter because it's.

00:44:43,739 --> 00:44:46,679

Just going to be done away with, and

then my soul will be resurrected.

00:44:47,249 --> 00:44:50,429

But we should really take

seriously what Paul says to.

00:44:50,429 --> 00:44:52,889

discipline our bodies because what

we do in the body effects are.

00:44:52,949 --> 00:44:53,969

entire personhood.

00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:54,569

Right.

00:44:54,689 --> 00:44:56,429

For good and for bad, not just for bad.

00:44:56,489 --> 00:44:56,759

Yeah.

00:44:56,909 --> 00:44:57,269

Yeah.

00:44:57,899 --> 00:45:00,389

That makes me think through

just all the, discussion about.

00:45:00,539 --> 00:45:03,209

Spiritual practices and habits

and how important those can be.

00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:03,509

Right.

00:45:04,019 --> 00:45:06,779

And general habits because we are.

00:45:06,779 --> 00:45:10,546

One whole being, not just

body and soul, so right.

00:45:10,806 --> 00:45:12,996

This is really neat and already

you can see a lot of the

00:45:12,996 --> 00:45:14,346

implications shining through.

00:45:14,706 --> 00:45:14,976

Cool.

00:45:15,506 --> 00:45:16,976

Well, I hope it's helpful to.

00:45:17,073 --> 00:45:17,673

A lot of people.

00:45:18,333 --> 00:45:18,603

Cool.

00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:19,563

Well, thank you so much.

00:45:19,623 --> 00:45:20,163

My pleasure.

00:45:20,403 --> 00:45:21,063

See you next time.