Does your partner's family sometimes feel like a third wheel in your relationship, Dear Listener? Maybe your in-laws overstep, your partner sides with their parents over you, or you're navigating grandparents who have strong opinions about how you're raising your kids.

We’ve worked with countless couples struggling with how to relate to in-laws and grandparents, so worry not – we’ve got your back.

This is the third episode in our Managing Thirds series, and we're tackling one of the stickiest thirds of all: your partner's family. We're joined by Relationship Center therapist and couples counselor Cody Gould to explore how couples can navigate in-law relationships without losing their connection—or their minds.

Cody walks us through the spectrum of involvement with in-laws, from boundaryless enmeshment to limited contact to no contact at all—and how couples can figure out what's right for them. We dig into what happens when your partner chooses their parents over you (and what to do about it), how to set boundaries with overstepping grandparents, and why a unified front matters so much when you're parenting differently than your parents did (which, let’s be real, you probably are).

The good news? It all comes back to just one thing: your couple bubble must be protected first and foremost. You and your partner are the proverbial roof of the house; you must be strong and aligned no matter what. Put more simply, before you have any conversation with in-laws, you and your partner need to be on the same page — about what you're comfortable with, what your boundaries are, and how you'll respond when those boundaries get pushed.

If you're navigating tricky family dynamics and want to protect your relationship while honoring the people you love, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Intro

02:02 Managing Thirds Recap

02:36 In-Laws as a Third

07:09 Choosing Involvement Levels

23:02 When your partner sides with their family

34:38 Setting Boundaries with Parents Around Baby

Resources and links

How to set boundaries with in-laws (inc. list of possible boundaries)

Have a question or comment? Email us at [email protected]. We love hearing from you!

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From The Relationship Center, I'm psychotherapist, couples counselor, and

2

dating coach Jessica Engle, and this is I

Love You Too, a show about how to create

3

and sustain meaningful relationships

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Josh: and sustain

meaningful relationships.

5

I'm dating and relationship

coach Josh Van Vliet.

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On today's episode, part three of

our Managing Thirds four-part series,

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we're gonna be talking about how

to relate to your partner's family.

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We're so happy you're here, and please

remember that this show is not a

9

substitute for a relationship with a

licensed mental health professional

10

Welcome, dear listener, to part three of

our four-part series on managing thirds.

11

In case you missed it, part one was

our overview of what is this concept of

12

managing thirds . Part two which was,

featuring Shae Burnett, last month, was

13

all about healing from betrayal trauma.

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And today's conversation is all about

how to relate to your in-laws as a couple

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whether that's grandparents, parents,

your partner's family, essentially,

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especially in big life moments like

planning a wedding or having a baby.

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And to help us dive into that topic

today, we're joined by Cody Gould, who's

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a therapist, dating coach, and a couples

counselor here at The Relationship Center.

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Cody works with premarital couples,

uh, neurodiverse couples, and

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couples struggling with addiction

to help them build a secure, joyful

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relationship for the long haul.

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Welcome, Cody.

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Cody Gould: Thank you.

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It is great to be here

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Josh: Oh, it's great to have you here

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Jessica: Yes, so good

to have you here, Cody.

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You are, uh, someone who's been with us

on the team at the Relationship Center

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for a little while now, and we are just

delighted we finally get you on the show.

29

Before we get started, dear listener, if

you love our show, well, we love you too

30

and want to be in touch between episodes.

31

To get more free dating, relationship,

and social anxiety advice, please go

32

to relationshipcenter.com/newsletter.

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Okay, on with the show

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Josh: Okay, on with the show.

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So Jessica, will you start us

off with just a quick recap of

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this concept of managing thirds?

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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Thirds are people, things, and activities

outside the couple . Stan Tatkin, uh,

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who is a renowned couples therapist,

we talk about a fair amount on this

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show, teaches that thirds are among the

most common and dangerous threats to

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a relationship's safety and security.

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Thirds are everywhere, so learning

to manage them well is essential,

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and mismanaged thirds are among the

most common reasons relationships end

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Josh: Isn't that the truth?

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Jessica: Mm-hmm.

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Josh: I wonder if we could start actually

with a little story from you if there's

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a, an example of what this can look like.

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You know, obviously we're talking

about partners, family today, in-laws.

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I'm sure that our dear listener

is familiar about some of the

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ways that can go wrong, But maybe

you can give us a little example

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just so we can get us grounded.

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Cody Gould: The one that comes to

mind first is actually a clinical

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issue that I have dealt with across

multiple people over the years, and

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it is the dynamic of when a parent

moves in to an ADU on your property.

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Now, this may, for some of you listening,

seem like a wild thing to consider.

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It happens more than you think, right?

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And, on one hand, there's something that's

really lovely about being able to, take

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care of your own, right, and being able to

reciprocate maybe some of the, hopefully

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the nurturing and the, guidance that

you were able to gain from your parent.

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And what it creates in a very,

very immediate physical sense

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is literally, there's this other

presence, where you live, right?

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Someone who may have their own needs.

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And in some cases, in the one of

the more recent cases, that has to

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do with, how do our dogs get along?

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In other cases, it's, "Oh, my parent

i- has their health failing, and I

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really want to build a lovely, future

with my, uh, partner, but I also want

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to give due respect to my, parent

whose health is having these issues."

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So it makes for a lot of emotional

crowding really quickly, and if in your

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relationship it's not clear where you're

both okay being flexible and , sometimes

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making those sacrifices, it can cause a

lot of frankly unnecessary hurt, right?

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So I don't know.

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A thing that's gonna come up a

lot is going to be the beauty of

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pre-planning if that is something

that is available to you.

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Josh: I appreciate hearing , there's

all kinds of different ways, right?

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That our families, our, our kind of

family of origin, our partners' families

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could be involved from, moving in next

door or in our backyard to, parenting and

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kids, and you and I, you know, we'll talk

about that in a little bit, to, like,

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all the different variations in between.

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And, it can be a really beautiful

thing, and it can also be a really

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challenging thing if there are

different expectations, different needs.

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you know, you're feeling pulled

in two different directions.

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If it's your own family, uh, where

should your priority be, or how

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should you be spending your energy

individually or as a couple?

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Cody Gould: and here's the spicy thing.

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We may also heavily identify with and

be very proud of our family, right?

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we may very much be identified

with our family of origin.

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The exact opposite is also

quite possible as well.

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But if that is so, feeling pulled

between the way my family has always

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done things or the way I've seen my

partner's family always do things

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versus the bond we are creating in

our relationship together, right?

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And if that ain't a third, I

don't know what the heck is

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Josh: For sure.

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So given all of that, what are the options

for relating to your partner's family?

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Cody Gould: Well, ultimately in, in,

in, in my experience, right, any of

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these options are always discussed

within the relationship unit, right?

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They're discussed as a couple.

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you're not just gonna go, trudge

off to that ADU and be like,

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"I've decided this is what our

agreements are, just so you know."

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Yeah, no, that's not how it works, right?

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one way or the other, you are

pre-planning these together, or if

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in you're in the midst of something,

you are making that decision as a

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couple before addressing anyone else

outside of the relationship, right?

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Whether it be part of your

triad or just whoever else, the

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relationship structure comes first.

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So

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Josh: Now let me pause you

there for a second, Cody.

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For our dear listener,

why is that important?

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Cody Gould: Each of us want to feel

like our partner is holding our best

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interests in mind, and that we don't

have to remind them that that's a

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thing they need to do we, we wanna feel

secure in the idea that our partner

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is going to turn towards us first

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it prioritizes the relationship,

and I firmly believe it's good for

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families as a whole when we have

secure relationships within them

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Josh: Beautiful.

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So we start with the couple is always,

making these decisions together and

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ideally pre-planning, if at all possible.

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where do we go from there?

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Cody Gould: Right.

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So what you're talking about is, among

other things, levels of involvement.

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different folks are gonna make equally

valid choices around how they want

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their relationship with their in-laws

to be Like we often want our, in-laws

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to have a relationship with, our

children but maybe we don't want

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that to be a boundaryless one, right?

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So many, different kinds of

nuanced levels of contact.

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So let's start with the

boundaryless one, right?

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So the extended family, the in-laws

have a say over almost everything that

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happens in the relationship, right?

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They determine what is healthy.

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They determine what is correct behavior.

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that's on our extreme end, right?

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generally that is going to leave, the

partner who is not connected by blood

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to this, family potentially feeling

like either an outsider or like they're

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some kind of forcible convert, right?

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they are hewing solely to the

structure of the existing family

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unit rather than getting to be like,

"This is how I want my family to be."

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Josh: That person would have to be

really bought into the culture of

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the family that they're joining to

feel good about that arrangement.

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Cody Gould: Which is a thing,

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And, that's why it is a choice

just like any of the other

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ones we're gonna talk about.

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And for a lot of folks, there needs

to be a bit more discernment in

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distinguishing, rather than being

wholly 100% bought in or 0% bought in.

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which is where we come to

the biggest choice, which is

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this boundaried, involvement.

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there's the most room for variation

here, so going back to, like, say, the,

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kid and grandparent example, right?

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Like, oh, we really want them to be

there for our child's life, right?

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Do we really, do, do we really

welcome, involvement in any other ways?

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Maybe there could be good reasons why

not, but our child deserves to have a

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good relationship with their grandparents.

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Or for instance, maybe one partner

has, a set of family traditions, right?

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That they're always involved in.

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Like, all the cousins go back up to

the creek every year or something.

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I don't know.

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That's a thing people do, right?

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Okay, great.

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Um, but that's also a form of,

limited contact where, that's

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something you wanna honor.

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That is part of being a

member of that family.

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And there are also discussions to

be had around, "Okay, if you go

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and I don't, what does that mean?"

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Jessica: so an

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example I can think of, Cody,

in this, what I think you're

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calling more boundaried,

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something I've seen in a lot of different

instances is, uh, a couple where, let's

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see, one half of the couple had parents

who were not particularly present growing

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up or not particularly emotionally

available or even kind, and so they've

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estranged themselves to some degree.

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And when a child comes in the picture,

they say, "Well, but I don't wanna

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be fully estranged because I want

my child to have a, a relationship

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with this grandparent, and so

we're gonna set up some really

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particular boundaries around this."

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And that can get sticky in that

the other half of the couple may

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not want any contact based on

what their partner has shared

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Cody Gould: there can be some

very particular reasons why

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you might not want any contact.

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And then what is, I think we can

all acknowledge, a very complex

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issue just gets even more complex.

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I've worked with couples where they're

from different races, different

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ethnicities, different cultural

backgrounds, different languages spoken.

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And, sometimes an in-law just

ends up being racist Right?

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Whether it be like a conscious

outright prejudicial set of comments

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or even microaggressions, right?

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Or things like that that end up being

very stressful for, for the partner

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who was the recipient of those.

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And oftentimes, right, that can be a

extremely, valid reason to go to the

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other extreme, which is no contact, right?

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Now, I'm not here to say that that

automatically equates to that decision.

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That's a very personal process

and conversation, and I'm not

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trying to be a third for, like,

50,000 couples at once here.

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It's a rough call to make,

and sometimes it's necessary

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Jessica: Yeah.

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I appreciate you naming that example.

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I'm also thinking about couples where

it might not have been race, but, uh,

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gender identity, transitioning, right?

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Cody Gould: And I must stress

the majority of cases I have seen

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this are not deliberate, right?

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It's not like someone's saying, "Oh,

I actively hate e- you and everyone

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who ha- shares this characteristic."

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It's that there is such a difference

and feeling unsure how to act that

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there ends up being like these eggshell

circumstances, where one party is not

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sure how to act with the other, right?

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Now, there are times where that can

be worked out over time And sometimes

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it's necessary to fully ensure the

safety of who is in the relationship

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Josh: Makes sense.

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In our conversations around managing

thirds, one of the core principles is the

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safety and the security of your partner

and your relationship have to come first.

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Cody Gould: Exactly.

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Josh: threat to that, is very

serious and has to be taken seriously

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and navigated, with a lot of care

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Cody Gould: and I think in the case

of talking about in-laws, what's

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especially good to note is that if those

conversations are difficult for one of the

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partners, especially if, you are trying

to get across to your partner how their,

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their parents make you uncomfortable

And, and if it feels like it's not

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gaining a lot of traction, well, remember

the family they grew up in, right?

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This is not something that just

happens with one generation,

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And if it gets especially difficult,

sometimes that's where the line

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between solving it on your own

and professional support is,

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There can be a lot of love and a

cognitive difficulty with, like,

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how would we do this differently?

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This is all I've ever known

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Jessica: Yeah, and I would add

to that the emotional charge that

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comes up for a lot of people around

individuating from their parents, right?

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There are some people who've grown

up with parents who are quite

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overbearing and quite controlling,

and any attempts they've made to pull

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away to be their own person have been

met with criticism, with, uh, more

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control, with a withdrawal of support.

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So it can be…

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I mean, I liked the term you

used at, at the top of the

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episode, emotional crowding.

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There can be a lot of, influences in the

room, even when it's two people talking

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Cody Gould: Yeah.

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not to get too jargony, but like

very early in my clinical training, I

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thought a lot about this phrase, called

invalidation of private experience, right?

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So basically, which yeah, that

sounds like a curse, a witch

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cast on somebody somewhere.

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But what it is is essentially

the idea of like, I'm not used

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to having my own thoughts, right?

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And as a result, bringing that

forward in a relationship where

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it's necessary and healthy is not

an intuitive skill, What do I think

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separate from what does my family think

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Jessica: Say the phrase again.

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I don't think I've heard that one

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Cody Gould: Yeah, it's from good

old dialectical behavior therapy.

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Shout out to Marsha Linehan.

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Uh, it is invalidation

of private experience

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Jessica: Yeah.

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Interesting.

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And I'll pull in another, uh, funny

term that I thought a lot about in grad

250

school, which is the undifferentiated

ego mass of family systems.

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Meaning, this is from, I think,

Bowen family systems, and it…

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Basically, the idea is that family systems

with a lot of dysfunction and anxiety

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tend to all have a, an ego that is blended

together, meaning that people don't

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have their own boundaries and opinions.

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And when people start to individuate

and express those boundaries and

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opinions, the family gets weird.

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And w- what is a better opportunity

for that individuation process than

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bringing home baby, having a wedding?

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All of the things that we're naming

are incredible challenges to a family

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system that may not want to change at all

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Cody Gould: Yeah.

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Also, I'm pretty sure I cleaned out an

undifferentiated ego mass out of my fridge

263

the other day, so that's just a th- I

think that's where I heard it before.

264

But no, it brings to mind, I had a couple

once who, her mom just kinda showed up

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at their apartment after their wedding

and just started, you know, they were…

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The baby was on the way, and

she just started cleaning like,

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all right, getting things ready.

268

Clearly has good intentions,

but like I need you to know she

269

flew in and she just showed up

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Jessica: Yeah, I've heard those stories

before, and it's in, it's, uh, when

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we brought our baby home, we had not

an instance with a, a family member,

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but there, we have a neighbor who is

very nosy, and we were literally taking

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our, what, five-day-old baby outside,

out of the car First car ride home,

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Josh: When we brought our baby

home, we had not an instance with

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a, a family member, but there,

we have a neighbor who is very

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Jessica: and this woman, was coming

out of her house and said, "The baby's

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here," and, like, came and, like,

kind of stuck her head, "Can I see?"

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And I think I said something

quite curt, which was like,

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"We're not available right now"

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and we like ran in.

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I was like, "Seriously,

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Cody Gould: Wait, you're used to

hearing that in a voicemail, but to

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say that to somebody's face, now that

is cr- premium grade boundary setting.

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Good on you

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Josh: Yeah, I think that's such

a great example of how entitled

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people feel around babies.

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And it's like on one level, just

friends, neighbors, but of course,

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it's a next level when it's

parents, grandparents, you know, our

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in-laws.

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, I know we're gonna, we're gonna

dive a little bit more deeply into

291

that in a moment, but I wanna circle

back to s- to something that you

292

both were naming, which is around

the undifferentiated ego mass and,

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invalidation of private experience, right?

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As you are starting to individuate,

starting to forge your own path and

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maybe do things a little bit differently

from your family of origin or your

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partner's starting to do things

differently from their family of origin.

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And, and the family system

has a reaction, right?

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Like you were saying, I think Jessica,

you said, "Families get weird," which

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is such a great way of putting it.

300

It is-- That is the truth.

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Families get weird.

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Um, and that can look like all kinds

of things, but people getting angry

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with you, upset, maybe they express

it directly, maybe they don't.

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Maybe they're just being really

awkward or passive-aggressive or,

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saying things behind your back to

your family, you know, whatever it is.

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How do you deal with that?

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What do you do as a couple?

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Cody Gould: Well, not to sound repetitive,

but we're gonna go back to that concept

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of putting the relationship first, right?

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if this is a flowchart, all the

arrows are pointing back to that.

311

Now, what I have found in my experience

is the most helpful in dealing with those

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adjustments in the family system or when

the families get real weird with it is,

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um, coming up with your strategy together.

314

These are the things I

anticipate will happen.

315

This is what I'm most worried

about, and thinking like, what do

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we want our response to be, right?

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And that's the key piece.

318

Like,, if there's a similarity

between a secure functioning

319

relationship and a coordinated

media strategy, it's this, right?

320

Is, how are we going to say these things?

321

Or maybe not down to the exact word, but

what are we really going to emphasize

322

and what are we okay, working with or

having a little bit of flexibility around?

323

where do we want folks

to really be involved?

324

and going back to what we were

talking about earlier, like

325

where do we possibly set limits.

326

Which, remember, limits are behaviors

that we shape for ourselves.

327

We don't get to just toss them

at other people because they

328

might not do anything with it.

329

Limits are how we limit

our behavior in shaping the

330

relationship with another person.

331

Josh: So what I'm hearing you say is, is

number one, you have to be clear together

332

on what is your, position essentially

with regards to this, both in terms of,

333

let's say you're making a choice, right?

334

It's like, "Okay, we're going

to, we're gonna let our kid

335

eat whatever they wanna eat."

336

That's not a thing that my,

our family is comfortable with.

337

You have to be clear together,

right, that this is what we're doing.

338

This is how we are aligning around

food for our family, and also, here's

339

how we're gonna respond when Grandpa

Joe makes a comment at the dinner

340

table so that you're, you're both

aligned on what the thing is that

341

you wanna be doing differently.

342

'Cause I imagine that's a very

stressful thing if you're not

343

even aligned on that, right?

344

Like, "Oh, I'm just doing this.

345

we didn't talk about it.

346

Now my family or your family's

having a reaction to it.

347

Oh, no."

348

Jessica: Or, or I'm doing it

in a way that you don't like.

349

I'm setting this limit, right?

350

I may be offending you.

351

Yeah.

352

Mm-hmm.

353

Cody Gould: Yeah, exactly, Jessica.

354

The, you're reading my

mind over here, right?

355

Like, the thing where I've seen

that come up the most is when

356

partner A says, "Okay, I didn't

like that, but I'm letting that go."

357

Partner B is like, "Oh, that was,

that was not okay in any way, shape,

358

or form, That, that's probably

the most frequent stumbling block.

359

Is it the most intense?

360

Maybe not, but it does come up the most

361

Jessica: Yeah, I'm thinking going back to,

race and gender identity instances where,

362

uh, maybe one partner is of a marginalized

group and hears a microaggression and

363

is an absolutely not to it, right?

364

I will absolutely not tolerate that.

365

And the other person maybe isn't from

that group and has more, tolerance

366

for that sort of thing, right?

367

And that can become a really sticky

dynamic between the two if they're

368

not, on board with the safety and

security of my partner comes first

369

Cody Gould: Right.

370

Or they don't understand why

that would feel unsafe, right?

371

There can be, like, a well-meaning

smokescreen that happens when

372

we're thinking like, "Oh, you

know, oh, this is just my mom.

373

She just does these things.

374

She just says these things," or, "My,

my dad's always been this way," right?

375

and the unfortunate thing about

those moments is indirectly you're

376

invalidating your partner's experience,

377

right?

378

Just flat out, right?

379

And it can get especially, tricky when

we need to, think about, the element of

380

education here, of like, here's why as

a member of this marginalized group I

381

would feel threatened by this, right?

382

having to do that under fire in a

relational context is not easy and takes

383

a lot of emotional and mental labor.

384

It can absolutely be worth it,

but I also would completely

385

understand, people throwing up

their hands at that point, right?

386

And sometimes needing to, yeah,

r- bring in, like, external

387

resources or things of that nature.

388

So

389

it's

390

exhausting work

391

Jessica: Yeah, in that instance, uh,

if, if you are able to access couples

392

therapy, somebody like Cody can be

the educator instead of placing that

393

burden on the shoulders of the oppressed

part of the couple, um, which they've

394

probably been in a lot

395

Cody Gould: Right, because in that

conversation you can typically

396

do one of two things well.

397

You can be the person who is communicating

how they were hurt, or you can be the

398

person educating why those things hurt.

399

It is difficult to do both

in the same conversation

400

Josh: So this, I think this, this, segues

us very nicely into my next question,

401

which is, in this situation, when your

partner is effectively siding with

402

their family over you What do you do?

403

Cody Gould: Well, let's start out with

the preparatory element to this that can

404

make these situations easier, coming up

with a relationship agreement, right?

405

having those agreed upon elements of how

we are going to act with each other makes

406

this conversation a little less complex.

407

So I always recommend that kind

of, uh, preparatory work, now,

408

whether that's done or not, the

conversation then ends up becoming,

409

like, okay, how do we acknowledge

the effect that this did have, right?

410

you can say, "I can see that

you are wanting to, take care of

411

your family like you always have.

412

And I wonder if you, you

you have any thoughts as to,

413

like, how this affected me."

414

Another way I've seen this done is

thinking about, going back to the

415

relationship agreement idea, how does

this affect not you or me, but our

416

connection, our relationship, right?

417

Making this talk not about, what

I found difficult right away at

418

least, but more like, how is this

affecting our ongoing connection?

419

Right?

420

Jessica: a question about that

one, make sure I'm understanding.

421

So it sounds like there's a, a

step in here that's about building

422

awareness or insight about the impact

of the dynamic on the coupledom,

423

is, is what you're talking about in here,

like, both partners need to have empathy

424

about where the other one's coming from?

425

What is it the thing that's

like needs to be developed in

426

there, I think is my question?

427

Cody Gould: well, I mean, empathy

is absolutely going to be the thing

428

that keeps the wheels turning, and

I think to, to your point, it's

429

not gonna be there necessarily.

430

Not, maybe not right away.

431

I think at the very bare bones

we want one person to be able to

432

speak to the other and be able

to say, "I heard what you said."

433

Jessica: Hmm.

434

Cody Gould: Right?

435

So the, the, the act, if we are just

getting very skeletal here, right?

436

We want, I can send something,

a message to you, and you can

437

show me that you've received it

438

Jessica: Got it.

439

So this is less about having like a

super deep nuanced feeling, of the other

440

person's experience and more about like

we need to have enough receptivity to

441

hear where the other person's coming from

442

Cody Gould: There needs to

be an open channel, right?

443

And I think that that's where the idea

of, like, putting the relationship

444

first comes in, is that we have an open

channel that is just for us where we can

445

communicate and feel heard by one another,

446

right?

447

And, on top of that, if you can

do that, then you can build up

448

other really important things like

sharing your own understandings

449

or why that makes sense or sharing

empathy, right, and things like that.

450

But the baseline for what needs to

happen before you get any of that other

451

fanciness, we need that basic channel,

452

right?

453

We need the two people to be

able to sit together and actually

454

talk about what's going on

455

Jessica: And we're saying that as

though it's a simple thing, and

456

Cody Gould: Hmm.

457

Jessica: this is

458

Cody Gould: Yeah

459

Jessica: dear listener, if you are really

struggling to hear your partner and

460

for your partner to hear you, I promise

you there is nothing wrong with you.

461

We just aren't really taught those

skills, and a lot of us have a lot of

462

hurt in these situations that makes

it very hard to hear the other person.

463

So just to normalize, this is what

brings most couples to couples therapy,

464

is we're not hearing one another

465

Cody Gould: and when folks do that

really hard work of just being being

466

in a place where they feel receptive

to hearing one another, you will

467

be amazed at how much, happens and

how eager people are to jump in.

468

But like to your point, right, we are

often taught to protect ourselves in

469

these kinds of conversations, right?

470

Because maybe those have

been sources of hurt.

471

Maybe we have, , had experiences

where that hasn't been, like, a

472

two-way conversation, where it's

just one person, say, lecturing us.

473

or they've been like, heaven forbid,

outlets of different abusive behavior,

474

For the wonderful, highly sensitive folks

that we often work with, this is a major

475

effort, and it also bears major fruit

476

Jessica: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm hearing

this point that you're making, which is we

477

need to be able to hear each other as we

need to remember we're on the same team.

478

And, and that can feel quite tricky if

we've had a lot of experiences of being,

479

somebody else's, opponent in relationship

480

Josh: And so ideally, we have

set some agreements early in the

481

relationship that help us navigate

these moments about how we are with

482

each other and how we're prioritizing

our relationship and each other.

483

and then we get to this moment and

we're talking about, like you're

484

saying, getting this open channel.

485

Uh, potentially we haven't yet set

those agreements, so I'm imagining,

486

tell me if this is right, Cody, that

one of the next steps once we are on

487

the same page about what has happened

and what the impact has been on our

488

connection, it might be time to set some

new agreements if we haven't already

489

Cody Gould: It's never

too late to start, right?

490

Exactly.

491

I- it's great if you have, you know?

492

And also even if you have and maybe that

agreement has gathered some dust for some

493

time, there can be reasons any old time

to look back on it, Or you have a chance

494

to create a fresh new set of agreements,

so I mean, yes, this episode is absolutely

495

about managing in-laws, but, as you've

probably seen with a lot of these Managing

496

Thirds episodes, it really comes back to

the agreements between the couple and just

497

how that particular third, this particular

third, pokes at the, tender spots, right?

498

Which is other people that

we love and care about

499

Jessica: Yeah, and there's no one

answer to any of these thirds dilemmas.

500

It's always what do the two people in the

relationship, or how many there are in

501

the relationship, what do they agree on?

502

What makes them feel safe and secure?

503

Cody Gould: And it's not like our

solution for thirds is burning

504

them away in a wildfire, right?

505

We will always have thirds.

506

That's why it's managing them, right?

507

We- and managing can imply the possibility

of an ongoing sustainable relationship

508

Jessica: I would really like Cody

to anchor what he just gave us,

509

those three steps in an example.

510

Okay.

511

When your partner sides with their

family over you, what do you do?

512

Give us an example, Cody

513

Cody Gould: Yeah.

514

let's say, there is a, a parent

who, has a lot of interest

515

in their grandchild, right?

516

Oh, is he, is, is he walking yet?

517

Oh, did he burp this way?"

518

Or whatever have you, right?

519

you might be getting rather overwhelmed

by this particular well-meaning parent.

520

This person has been

very warm to you, right?

521

But is also just wants to know everything.

522

And your partner's just

like, "Oh, that's my parent.

523

It's always been that way

from the time I was a kid.

524

You get used to it."

525

Oh, God.

526

Right?

527

So if I'm imagining myself in those shoes,

I may be looking to my partner and saying,

528

Hey," I'd love to talk a little bit later

and just decompress from everything,"

529

And if I am in a place where I'm feeling

regulated, which ideally I want to be,

530

I'm bringing up, "I, I know you love

your mom and this is, you know, something

531

that you're, very used to dealing with.

532

I was extremely uncomfortable with

the level of, questions and what

533

was being said, the assumptions

that, that were being made.

534

I don't think that they have a

right to know that automatically.

535

I wanna talk about what we share

with our parents about our child.

536

Josh: But Cody, what's the harm

in, what's the harm in sharing?

537

it's not a big deal.

538

They're just, they're

just asking questions.

539

I, I don't understand why you're

having a, a thing about this

540

Cody Gould: Well, no, that's right.

541

I, I think it might be a little hard

to understand, and I wanna take this

542

opportunity just to tell you more about

what I'm feeling, 'cause I want us to

543

always be feeling like a team, and I don't

think we can do that unless we know what

544

we're each feeling about those situations.

545

And you know your mom way better than

I do, That's not what I'm used to.

546

You know, I was a lot more

distant from my parents, right?

547

So if we're gonna be good to your parents,

we need to both be feeling safe about this

548

Josh: But what, what…

549

Okay, I mean, yes, I, I agree with you.

550

That's true.

551

Uh, but what, what makes

you feel unsafe about this?

552

I mean, she- again, she's

just asking questions.

553

It's, like, kind of annoying,

but, you know, she's harmless

554

Cody Gould: I, I trust that she is

ultimately harmless, and, it makes me feel

555

like she's parenting along with us, Which

I know she deserves a relationship with

556

her grandchild, and she's amazing, and she

helped out at the wedding so much, and she

557

is just … Your mom is such a trooper.

558

She's not parenting the kid like we are

559

Josh: Yeah, that's fair.

560

I mean, I, I get, I get ti- kind

of tired of her too, honestly,

561

if I'm, if I'm being real

562

Cody Gould: Live role

play from I Love You Too

563

Jessica: Beautifully, beautifully done.

564

Thank you both

565

Josh: And so from there we might

make some new agreement around,

566

uh, how we wanna relate to her

567

Cody Gould: It's, it's the, it's this

idea of, obviously not one of us has

568

the full correct answer, but, when one

of us is sounding the uncomfortability

569

of bells, right, that's a time to

readjust our approach, You may see a

570

follow-up conversation down the line

of just, I feel really uncomfortable

571

having to set these limits with my mom,

572

Josh: Mm-hmm.

573

Cody Gould: and then that's a

thing that we develop from there.

574

Oh yeah, nev- no one's ever

had that experience ever

575

Josh: And so in this example,

we might land on an agreement of

576

something like, when my, my mom asks

these intrusive questions, we just

577

have a, a shared response that's

like, "Thanks so much for asking.

578

We love how much you love our kiddo.

579

we're not gonna share that

right now," or whatever

580

Cody Gould: it really comes down to that

phrase, people love a unified front,

581

Josh: Mm-hmm.

582

Jessica: Yes.

583

Unified front, and I, I love

the, uh, broken record approach.

584

If somebody pushes

585

back against the boundary,

you just repeat yourself.

586

"Thank you so much for

your interest in our child.

587

We really appreciate it.

588

We won't be sharing that."

589

Cody Gould: interest is

very important to us.

590

Um, but no, it's, it's, I mean, and,

and I love the broken record approach

591

so much as well because you get to,

it, you, you get to really rest in the

592

consistency of it without it feeling

like it needs to be some sort of attack

593

Josh: Yeah.

594

Beautiful.

595

Okay.

596

So this does actually, we're kind

of starting the conversation about

597

how to set boundaries with parents

and grandparents then, uh, when

598

you're parenting differently,

599

So, I'm, picturing in my head, your, your

partner's dad is there and he's, telling

600

you how to, how to do the diaper correctly

601

Jessica: My dad's correcting you.

602

Josh: My dad's correcting you.

603

Exactly.

604

He's like- Yeah … "No, no, no, you

gotta, you gotta do it like this."

605

Jessica: Josh, you're not doing it right

606

Josh: Yeah

607

Cody Gould: Yeah.

608

No.

609

This is how we always did your

diapers, and it never fell off once

610

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

611

Cody Gould: Yeah.

612

Grandparents having a relationship with

their grandchildren is by and large a

613

really lovely, healthy thing, right?

614

It can be extremely nurturing.

615

There are studies that bear out,

the benefit of that in many cases.

616

And I think that also is very grounded on

the idea that a grandparent's relationship

617

to their grandchild is not the same

as the parent's relationship to their

618

child, there is an opportunity here for

very separate, but complementary roles.

619

So I think being able to, first of

all, turn towards your partner, right?

620

and think about, What are some

of the boundaries that we are

621

comfortable being, bit more flexible

with or a bit more rigid with?

622

there's a list of boundaries that I

think is extremely helpful for this.

623

but some of those can include things

like the informational boundary, right?

624

What kinds of information

are we comfortable sharing?

625

the proximity boundary, right?

626

How often are we comfortable with,

our, with grandparents coming over?

627

know, there are also, boundaries

that can be around, decision-making

628

or who is, responsible for, when the

grandparents, disagree with something.

629

So having that conversation as a unit with

what boundaries we are okay with being

630

very insistent on and which ones we might

be a little more lenient about, right?

631

If your grandparents live close by, maybe

that's okay that they stop by more often.

632

Maybe, not necessarily.

633

And then have the conversation with them

And being able to really hear out what

634

grandparents really value the most, right?

635

maybe they wanna be by, . or

maybe being of support to the

636

new, to the new parents, right?

637

Everyone can be different that way.

638

and then really thinking about what

should grandparents get to do that's

639

distinct from being parents, right?

640

I'm not sure about how y'all

grew up, but there was very much

641

a narrative of grandparents get

to spoil their grandkids, right?

642

Which, double-edged sword there, but,

I think when it's properly, articulated

643

and talked about what that means, that

can be a really joyful thing, right?

644

So have a conversation as a couple,

have the conversation about boundaries

645

with the grandparents as a unified front

646

Jessica: It's a pretty consistent

message you're giving us.

647

Go back to the relationship, figure out

what your agreement is, make specific

648

agreements within that context with the

grandparents, and then communicate those

649

Josh: I appreciate what you're naming

there of there is a, a place in this,

650

depending on your relationship with your

parents or your partner's parents, to

651

invite in what they're wanting, right?

652

That it's not, doesn't have to

be a unilateral like, "We have

653

decided this, and this is what

you get, and this is what you do."

654

There's like, there is space for, "What

would you love your relationship with us

655

and with your grandchild to look like?"

656

But that is information that then the

couple uses to make some d- agreements

657

or decisions about boundaries that

then they come back and share with

658

the grandparents so that it's not

like the grandparents are just saying,

659

"Well, I want to see them every day."

660

And you're like, "Okay, I

guess we gotta do that then."

661

But rather like, " That's beautiful.

662

I'm, glad you want a close relationship.

663

We're up for two visits a week,

and it's gonna look like this

664

Cody Gould: Yeah, it can be a

dialogue while still holding onto

665

the power that is necessarily yours

as the couple and as the parents

666

Jessica: Amen

667

Josh: Beautiful.

668

Well, I think that's a perfect place

to, to leave it for today then.

669

Uh, thanks so much for joining us, Cody.

670

This was delightful

671

Cody Gould: Oh, so glad

to finally be on here.

672

Longtime fan, and not just 'cause

I work at the same practice

673

Jessica: Thank you, Cody,

for your wisdom today

674

Josh: That's all for today.

675

You can find the show notes with links

to all the resources we mentioned in this

676

episode at relationshipcenter.com/podcast

677

Jessica: And if you have a

question or comment, email us at

678

[email protected].

679

We love hearing from you If you'd like to-

680

Josh: If you'd like to work with

one of the talented clinicians

681

on our team, including Cody,

go to relationshipcenter.com

682

to apply for a free 30-minute consultation

683

Jessica: You can also sign up for

a monthly email of our best content

684

at relationshipcenter.com/newsletter

685

Josh: And if something in

this episode touched you, will

686

you share it with a friend?

687

That helps us reach more

sweet humans like you

688

Jessica: Lastly, we'd love it if you

would leave us a rating and review

689

wherever you listen to podcasts.

690

And be sure to hit subscribe while

you're there so you never miss an episode

691

Josh: Until next time.

692

Jessica: We

693

Josh: love you too.

694

Bye.

695

Choo choo

696

Jessica: Yeah.

697

Cody Gould: did, did I tell you

about the woman I dated who said

698

that enthusiasm was dangerous?

699

Jessica: N- no.

700

Were you like, "Yes, my

name is Cody Danger Gould"?