Tanith Lee aka 'Mrs Menopause' joins me as a specialist to talk about the menopause with a particular focus from a man's perspective.

I share my personal experience with this as my partner is going through the peri-menopause and it has been a challenging experience for both of us. I also have numerous clients going through the menopause so I have exposure to the impact on women and their life/work.

As a partner of someone, you might start to notice changes your their partner and fee the effects on you and your relationship. Can we change the description of a 'symptom' to a 'signal' of what's going on - when you see these you can start to get interested in these.

Tanith says that peri-menopause > menopause shouldn't be feared. If we can go into this with knowledge and compassion (rather then fear) then this is a good place to start. Stress will make the experience worse so that needs addressing.

I talk about the nervous system which needs to be understood. The stress response is either 'fight' mode or flight' mode. If you feel anger can it be expressed healthily without trying to avoid it or shutting it down? we discuss this in depth. Tanith explains the common narrative is to calm everything down BUT menopausal 'rage' but we discuss this and how you can take actions to process this rather than suppressing what you're feeling.

How can we communicate better? How do men deal with the difficult feelings that might come up such as rejection?

We discuss all of this and provide various options you can do.

And yes, we also discuss intimacy!

Finally, we cover the powerful impact of exercise. The relationship with your body needs to be nurtured. Tanith explains the issues to be aware of due to hormonal changes. How you feel is the ultimate payoff and if you can find 'joy' this is such a lift. I call these moments 'Joy Lilly-Pads' to hop from between the difficult times.

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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Today, I am talking about

a fascinating subject, men,

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the misses and the menopause.

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Now stay with me here.

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It's a really important

subject for men in particular.

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my female listeners, of course, it's

super important for you, but I wanted

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to come today from this, from both the

male and female perspective and bring

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in a specialist who really knows all

about menopause and can really help both

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myself and all of us understand more.

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And there's.

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A lot of reason why as men, we need

to know about the menopause because

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if you don't have a partner, you might

have a sibling, a friend, a colleague,

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a coworker, someone with you is

likely to be experiencing menopause

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at somewhere in their midlife area.

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And it's absolutely vital that we

understand what's happening for both.

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Us as men for women and

us as people together.

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So the whole thing together.

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so I'm delighted to be joined by Tanith

Lee and she goes by the name Mrs.

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Menopause.

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So she is a super specialist.

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I've known Tanith a while and she

knows so much about this subject.

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So I'm super grateful

that she's joining us.

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Hello Tanith.

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Tanith Lee: Hello Sal.

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It's so good to be here.

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Thank you for this opportunity

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Sal Jefferies: very welcome.

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They're very welcome.

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I'm delighted to, to get

your wisdom and knowledge.

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and in some ways it feels slightly

unusual for a man to be quite,

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forthright and outspoken about

the menopause, but for, for, for

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all of us, I wanted to share them.

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And by the way, I have full,

so full, full disclosure.

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I have full permission to

talk about, my personal world.

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my partners have been

happy to say this is okay.

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So in my own life, my partner's

going through perimenopause and

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my Goodness, have we seen this has

been a challenge, she's had huge

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challenge years and I'll bring some

of the examples to today's episode.

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and as a man, I've had challenges because

I'm part of that relationship too.

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it's not just happening to

her, it's happening to us.

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So it's absolutely vital that we all

understand this better so that we can make

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the best actions, choices, and processes.

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So Tanith, Can I, can I ask you a

little bit more about where you are

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at with, with your work at the moment?

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Cause you, I understand you work

with women and menopause, but give

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us a little bit more about how you're

working with, with people you do

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and how you approach dealing with

this big subject of the menopause.

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Tanith Lee: Sure, thanks.

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do you want me to share a little bit

of what kind of got me the name Mrs.

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Sal Jefferies: I'd love to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Let's take us back a little bit.

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So we understand your origin.

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Tanith Lee: the, I was, diagnosed, that's

a terrible word for it, but I can't think

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of another one to use with menopause

in my kind of mid to late thirties.

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and I'm now 51.

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So a little while ago.

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And, being the person I am,

I'm quite honest and open

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and like to share this stuff.

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And I was doing that on social media

and, people wanted to know more about

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it, particularly my peers at the time.

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I'm in, I teach a little bit of fitness.

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And so my peers were really interested

because back then really nobody

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was talking about menopause at all.

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And, the name came about

my mentor at the time.

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Someone's talked to him about asking

about something about menopause and he

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said, Oh, you need to talk to Tanith.

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She's Mrs.

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Menopause.

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And that is literally how,

how the name came about.

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And I went, Oh, that says what it is.

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So let's, let's just go with that.

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And literally, that's how it all started.

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I started talking about

it from, from then.

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so I was just sharing blogging.

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really about my own experience, my

struggle to get help, my struggle, to

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understand what was going on for me.

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And, and the more I talked about, as I

say, lots of people want to understand it.

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And then I thought, I can help,

I can help other women with this.

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I can, I can do that.

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So it started with exercise and

then I knew I wanted to work

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on a bit of a deeper level.

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So then I decided to be trained

as a nutritional therapist.

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which is so much more than just nutrition.

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It's, lifestyle coaching

and stuff as well.

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and then I, then I started to

learn how I could really help

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women on a, on a much deeper level.

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So I work one to one.

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I like doing group work as well.

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I like doing both of those things and

that's, that's really how I help women

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with their, with their menopause stuff.

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Sal Jefferies: Got it.

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Cool.

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That's really good to know.

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And, and of course we've, we've,

I've known Tanith for, over the

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years, in various, respects and.

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And of course, it's very easy for the

unknowing, whether you're male or female,

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it doesn't matter, there's a lot of

myths around, a lot of not knowing, and

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of course I've been pulled into this,

not just for my personal life, but my

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sister as well, my older sister, a lot

of my female clients, so I'm very much

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around perimenopause understanding

conversation from a man's outside

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perspective, so I'm not going to say I

understand what it what it feels like.

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But I understand what it's like

to be with that in many contexts.

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And of course, there's

an idea, isn't there?

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That, this happens to ladies in

their late fifties of a certain age.

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You know, all these horrible cliches,

and that you get some hot sweats.

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And it's okay, that's just,

we need to stop this rubbish.

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and I found, I know someone.

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She also went through an early menopause.

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I think in her late late twenties.

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So we need to be understanding

that this can happen.

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there's certain...

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Bandwidths aren't there roughly around

40 to 60 is the bandwidth but it can

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happen at different ages And so we want to

bust some myths today and one thing that

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strikes me It's important as a man whether

it's your partner or your your friend or

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your colleague You might notice something

going on because I noticed something

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going like you seem a bit different at

the moment and Seem a little bit edgy

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or whatever it is And I think it's

interesting as a man if we see something

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Have the understanding that there may be

menopausal process starting to happen,

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say perimenopause, as it's called.

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And Tanith, you've said to me, and I'd

like to get your deeper thoughts on

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it, but perhaps from a woman's point of

view, you may not actually understand

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what's happening as the start of the

menopausal, the perimenopause, but as

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a man, you might observe these changes.

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So what, what on earth are we

going to be looking for from

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both an outside perspective

and from a woman's perspective?

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Tanith Lee: Such a good question.

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if anyone Googles the symptoms

of menopause, you'll get so

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many that there's, there's

many, many different symptoms.

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So it can be quite hard to spot.

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It doesn't help that the menopause,

perimenopause, so the perimenopause

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is the years leading up to

when women's final period is.

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So it's those, there's those years leading

up to that final, final menstruation.

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And that tends to be where many women,

not all, will experience various, varying

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degrees of these different symptoms.

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some women don't, about they've

potentially about 20, 25% of women don't

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actually get any symptoms, but we don't,

we don't hear so much about that, do we?

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So I just thought I'd

put in that it's not a.

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it's not necessarily guaranteed

that a woman's going to

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experience all these symptoms.

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Not at all.

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That's not how it works.

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So The symptoms generally in the

perimenopause when you're the closer a

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woman gets to her final period The more

the changes will start to happen so before

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that it may be just as you said subtle

changes like mood So that would probably

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be the most obvious one, and it's the kind

of feelings you get, a woman may get when

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she's, before her, before her period, that

PMT type feeling, a bit irritable, just

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maybe a bit sad, a bit, feeling a bit low,

those kind of symptoms we're used to women

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going through in cycles because of the,

because of the changing hormones, so that

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may become more apparent more of the time.

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and there's no, generally it's very

erratic, which for a lot of women is

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unsettling because, it can feel like

one day they're feeling okay, the

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next day they're all over the place.

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And it's, it is very unsettling.

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And so that would be the main kind

of symptoms I say with mood changes.

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As a woman gets close to a final

period, other symptoms, I know this

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is not, hard and fast kind of rules,

every woman's experience is different.

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This is what makes it so tricky

to understand, but what can happen

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then is the more common symptoms

of the perimenopal hormone changes

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are the change in temperature.

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So women feeling hot, they may get, hot

flushes or they may sweat, night sweats

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because the, the body is changing these

different hormones are fluctuating.

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So the body's trying to work out

what's going on and also, periods

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actually might start to change.

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A woman's cycle length may change.

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She may start to miss a period.

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Her flow may change as well.

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So these are all fairly kind of common

signs that something is changing.

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And these changes can happen, Hormones

are changing, from a woman really in her

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thirties, because if you think about how

fertility works, fertility rates start

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to, start to change in a woman's thirties.

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So hormonal changes are already happening.

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And then as we get into our forties,

that then starts to change as well.

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So it's, it's, yeah, it's quite,

it's quite hard to spot because

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it's quite subtle sometimes.

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Not for women to say, sorry.

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It's when we just say, just,

they just don't feel quite.

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Just don't feel quite themselves is a

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, and, and of course

it must be so destabilizing and, and I,

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as I want to talk about this from the

female perspective that I've understood

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and had privilege to talk with other

women about, and obviously from a

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male perspective as a witness to that.

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I worked with someone once and she, she

told me that she was absolutely fine.

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Regular periods, no idea, early forties.

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The idea of menopause wasn't even on her

radar and she just suddenly developed

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allergies, like really big allergies to I

think like tree pollen or something like

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that and came out with these huge hives

of allergy things and it was someone I was

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working with and they just didn't get it.

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How am I having these allergic reactions?

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And it was actually part of this

perimenopause mix that was going on.

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Now, to the outside, of course,

you went to the doctor and the

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doctor's you probably got anxiety.

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Let's prescribe some medication.

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It's whoa, let's just

slow this down a bit.

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And by the way, I have a whole beef around

this, but yeah, giving some meds for

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anxiety rather than understand why the

body's going to a stress response is a.

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is a really naive idea.

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and yeah, why the histamine

levels are pumping up, why the

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sensitivities are pumping up.

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So I saw that from someone I work with.

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And of course they shared it with me.

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I was like, my goodness, isn't, isn't

that fascinating how you wouldn't

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really attribute, allergy to this.

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And yet it was exactly that because then

she went through this whole process.

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and then suddenly it

was like, Oh, Oh, I see.

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This is what's going on.

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And what I found from that

story was fascinating that she,

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she went to a job, a doctor.

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And they, unfortunately, they

didn't sound like they have any

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comprehension of this was on the radar.

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They were looking at the symptoms of

allergy and anxiety and going, let's

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medicate it, rather than a better

question like, what's going on for you?

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do you have children?

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She didn't.

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So early menopause was more biased towards

her because of not having children.

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And, and I think this is one of

the things I want to get out.

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It seems really important to me is that

when stuff's happening, rather than

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it's a symptom, they need to solve it.

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I think the symptom needs to be a signal.

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Okay.

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What's going on with me?

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Yeah.

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Is, is, is, is there something going on?

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And if you're, if you're a man and

you're working with a woman or it's

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your partner and you're starting to see

symptoms that are, could be anxiety.

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It could be, could be shut down,

which other people call depression.

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It could be these things

that are happening without

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seemingly obvious causation.

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I think that's some of the signals

I would say, Oh, get interested.

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Is this, is this actually starting

to blend into a perimenable

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state for my partner or for

my colleague or what have you?

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And I'm really interested, Tanith, what

are some of the, so we've spoken about

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some of the symptoms to look out for.

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What are some of the big things

that you've seen through your own

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experience and with women that,

as a woman, they need to know?

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And then we'll go to the men after this,

but as a woman, what do you need to know

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about this forthcoming perimenopause

experience and the menopause if you're,

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I don't know, let's say thirties, and

you just don't know anything about it?

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What do we need to be

prepped and ready for?

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Tanith Lee: Great question.

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And I just want to just touch on what you

just said about those signals, because

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I try not to use the word symptoms

too much in my language, because I

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just think it and the word diagnosis,

because it just makes it sound like

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it's some kind of medical condition.

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I use the word messages,

but I like signals as well.

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And I think that's.

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It's just language, but I

think it just reframes it.

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So I'm really glad you brought that up.

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I think the first thing to think about,

with menopause for, for women who are

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younger is for it not to be feared.

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So we've, we're in our age now that,

if there's information everywhere.

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And we're surrounded by all this

information and it's great, it's

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good menopause is talked about and

that's what we need to, it's good.

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We need the awareness and when we need

to feel open and I meant to talk about it

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as a part of a normal aging, transition.

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But, I think the, it's quite imbalanced.

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It's quite a negative, negative

messages around menopause.

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So I think If we can start to see

it as not necessarily all a negative

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transition, because it's if we're going,

if we're going into something with

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fear and worry, and it's, it's probably

going to make the situation worse.

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But if we can go forwards thinking,

okay, if I can look after myself in

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this way, X, Y, Z, which we can talk

about, then it's going to make my

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chances of the transition easier.

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And if I start to think about.

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The benefits of menopause, because

there are some, and of getting older,

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I think that, I think, is, is, is

really important for women, and,

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yeah, I think there's an element of

that, and I, you, you touched earlier

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about stress, and the stress response.

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And, that, that stress will make

a woman's, menopause much worse.

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and we hear that all the time.

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You need to, less stress, de stress.

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And it's trying to help women

actually see how that really

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does affect a woman's, hormones.

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So that will therefore affect her

experience of, of the menopause as well.

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so I think those, those are two things.

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And I think If we can learn to look after

ourselves and give ourselves the care and

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attention we deserve as human beings, that

will make the transition easier as well.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

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nice.

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Really nice.

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and I wanted to, to speak about a couple

of things that caught my, really caught

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my attention with what you said there.

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we have this, there's a quite a

common narrative, certainly in

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our culture around, take care of

yourself, manage your stress levels.

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And I think it's, it's like

a really ambiguous concept.

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So our nervous system,

stress is not good or bad.

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It's a response.

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It's a response system to, to stress.

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Potential threats, whether they're

external, like things around you,

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or internal, such as thoughts.

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And, one of the things I find about

stress, having, using this, the mind,

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mood, movement process that I, I work

with, is everything affects each other.

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Having worked with yoga, and seeing

people down regulate, and find

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things nice, that's brilliant,

that's really, really good.

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The problem I have with that,

is it doesn't give permission

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to go into a fight state.

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Now, just caveat that, I'm not saying

punching people, I'm saying the,

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the fight state of the fight flight.

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And really what we're talking about

here is you, if you have a lift in your.

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hormonal chemistry of cortisol and

adrenaline, that kind of stuff.

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You will, you'll be biased to take action.

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And I think it's absolutely vital for

permission to be there to take action.

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And that might look like I'm

going for a run, which is a way

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of expressing the flight response.

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It might look like I'm going to go boxing,

which is something I'm interested in.

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about allowing permission to express.

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It might be that I'm going to speak up.

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All of these things are

moving towards something.

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And I think if we create that space around

get rid of, get rid of shame, get rid of

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silence, because they go together, add

in permission, add in conversation, and

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communication, doesn't matter how rough

it is, let's get something going, we

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start to loosen up all this stuff, this

hidden narrative, men shouldn't talk about

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it, absolute nonsense, men absolutely

shouldn't be talking about this.

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And women.

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it's a transition, right?

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It's going to happen.

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It's got nothing to do with anything.

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It's a transition.

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So as you beautifully said, if you honor

that, work with that, that's going to

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change everything versus resistance,

not speaking about it, burying it

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really, really important stuff.

328

And that's what I see from a

psychological, emotional perspective

329

about people creating those changes.

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So we spoke about what to look out for.

331

So for us, us boys, us men, eyes on.

332

You're starting to see stuff like,

okay, I know what I need to look out

333

for because I've been in the mix, but

what are you, what would you suggest

334

Tanith for men to both look out for

in women and perhaps themselves?

335

Tanith Lee: Okay.

336

So I guess it depends on

people's level of what their

337

relationships are like, aren't they?

338

yeah.

339

I don't want to talk about

my relationship or not.

340

We did talk about this

last night actually.

341

And, my, my husband just, he,

he didn't know what to do.

342

So he chose to ignore it in his own

way because he just didn't know.

343

He just didn't know what to do.

344

And of course, that's, that's just, and

I think that's maybe a common, a common

345

response to it because, if you're not used

to talking about these kinds of things.

346

it's interesting.

347

I think as a woman, we need

to understand what we need.

348

in the time, at that time,

because it's going to change.

349

Sometimes we'll need to be left alone.

350

Sometimes we'll need a hug.

351

Sometimes, we'll, we'll need something.

352

And I think that's the first step is

for women to try and identify that.

353

Sometimes that's not, that's not always

possible, but trying to identify that and

354

then communicate that to our loved ones.

355

And I think that's the bit I missed.

356

If I had been able to do that better, my

husband then would have known what to do.

357

So I, I think, I think there has to

be an element, there has to be some

358

kind of responsibility for the woman

to be able to say what she needs.

359

Otherwise, how is anyone gonna know?

360

and if she doesn't know, to say she

doesn't know, I think the more a man can.

361

He's not going to experience it,

so it's going to be really hard to

362

get that true empathy, but somehow

maybe just by listening to podcasts

363

like this, to doing, doing a bit

of research, there's some great,

364

there's some great information around.

365

And so there are, there are some bits and

pieces around written for men, what to

366

spot for, but it's just, I think it's.

367

Doing a little bit of research yourself

to understand that it's so much more

368

than a woman getting a bit grumpy

and feeling a bit hot and, her libido

369

goes because, that's a big concern.

370

That was a big concern of my

husband's and, that there is

371

more to it than, than that.

372

And I think it's been able

to have those conversations.

373

yeah, I think that's probably

the best thing they can

374

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's

really, really nicely put.

375

Tanith Lee: Can I just

add, just pick up on

376

something Sal, you mentioned earlier,

when you were talking about the

377

stress response, the narrative is,

for women, I think at menopause,

378

is to calm everything down.

379

Just calm, just go and zen out, and

I, and I think there's a lot to be

380

said for that, and I know we've talked

about this before, but I think that

381

That deep menopausal rage, that is

a thing, we can't suppress that.

382

It's not time to be the

good quiet girls anymore.

383

it's time, and I really, we do,

that needs to be expressed in a way.

384

and I think what you said is great,

boxing, anything like that, or whatever

385

it is, somehow to just get that rage out

in a safe, productive, a good way, I think

386

it's really important to let, as you said,

you said you use the word permission, not

387

that we need permission, but it's I think

women need to know that it's okay to feel

388

rage and to feel anger and to let it out

because a lot of that might have been

389

suppressed for a long time and as those

oestrogen levels go down and change our

390

natural maternal instincts start to lessen

and all of a sudden I'm going to say we.

391

I'm going to talk for me.

392

I'm like, actually, I am really

annoyed and whatever about

393

these situations and I am angry.

394

I've been doing this, this

and this or whatever it is.

395

And I think it's okay to express that.

396

but obviously in a way that's not going

to cause any, any harm to anybody else.

397

I think that's what I'm trying to say.

398

Yeah.

399

Sal Jefferies: yeah, absolutely.

400

And I'll echo that because it's

going on in my personal life.

401

It's going on with some

people I'm working with.

402

If we start to, if we start to shame

things like anger, like it's not okay to

403

be angry now, which is a caveat again,

we're not saying that you should be

404

screaming at people and taking it on

people that's not managing this emotion.

405

yeah, that, that can be moving towards

quite a, an aggressive state and

406

we're not suggesting that, but we

are suggesting is if there's rage, if

407

there's anger, it's a bona fide emotion.

408

It's coming up, trying to

suppress it by zenning out.

409

May not be your best strategy, so it

might look like, and so boxing works very

410

well because by default it uses, it's a

contact sport, I'm not saying boxing in

411

life, but just do a boxing class, but

there's something about when we fire

412

from the chest muscles, that's a very

sympathetic nervous system, that's a fight

413

response space, when we push from our

upper body, that's a fight response space.

414

seven billion.

415

Okay.

416

Most people don't know this.

417

If you push like pushups, you

are activating the fight response

418

and you're pressing away.

419

You're going to do a hundred press ups.

420

You're gonna feel a lot better.

421

Now, you might not be able to do

a hundred, but you, if you push

422

out seven and you're like, ah, you

have given permission for that,

423

for that biochemical electrical,

psychological process to go full circle.

424

And my sister, my sister spoke

about how she had to deal with her.

425

Perry Rager, she called it.

426

I've seen it my partner and some of

the women I've been working with.

427

And I think this is so

interesting around suppression.

428

So when I blend into my

psychotherapeutic model, anything

429

that's suppressed is bad news.

430

It's been shown in multiple

circles that you're likely to

431

move towards illness from this.

432

So suppression is bad news, full stop.

433

How you express is important.

434

So you might get some

therapeutic work done.

435

you might talk to a coach, you

might talk to TANF, a specialist,

436

you might talk to your mate.

437

It doesn't matter, but if it comes out and

it's expressed, then we don't suppress.

438

And then I think it's a really

important thing for health and

439

both mental and physical health.

440

Yeah, I just find it fascinating.

441

One thing I was going to say, I've got

another client, the information is private

442

here, but they said to me that they've

had a lot of anger coming out and they

443

went, they went some therapy a while back

before coming to my coaching practice.

444

And they realized that they buried

a lot of stuff from when they were

445

a teenage girl, when they were going

through a menstrual cycle coming on.

446

So what they found was is that

she's going through another,

447

hormonal transition in her life.

448

The echo from the past is coming back up.

449

The unfinished business

was ready to be done.

450

And it was like, Oh,

that's really interesting.

451

Thanks.

452

She worked with a trauma therapist

and they did a lot of processing.

453

And again, there's stuff coming out in

the, in the ecosystem of the mind body.

454

This ain't just a medical condition.

455

This is a, this is a whole hormonal

psychological condition and I just

456

wanted to call that out because I've

seen this from this almost professional

457

perspective from different angles

and that really intrigues me though.

458

If we understand this and

work with it better, I think

459

we want to just call it out.

460

Taniff, okay.

461

I'm a man and us men,

we like to fix things.

462

, I'm a coach and I do my

best to not fix things.

463

I help people.

464

by default men are fixers.

465

So for us fixing men who think gonna,

solve this menopause problem with

466

the misses so as men who are biased

towards fixing things, they have a

467

fix it mentality or, a sort of a,

some people can be a hero archetype

468

or saviour archetype, they're very,

let's do something about this, do.

469

When doing isn't the right

thing, what should us men be?

470

Considering, Thinking, Knowing.

471

Tanith Lee: From my personal

experience, I think being heard and

472

if not empathise with kind of, seen.

473

not being ignored.

474

I think that is, that was

my personal experience.

475

and being listened to.

476

And I think asking perhaps a

woman what, what it is she needs

477

would be a good starting point.

478

She may not know, but it would be,

even being asked that question.

479

means that you've been seen and heard.

480

And I think that's important.

481

But practically, I mean, there is,

there's loads of things that, you know,

482

if a woman is, if she's not sleeping

because she's up, maybe insomnia,

483

maybe night sweats, she's, she's

up and down, up and down all night.

484

She is exhausted.

485

That in itself, fatigue, exhaustion,

will affect any human being on any level.

486

Add that into all the other things

that are going on hormonally.

487

It's no wonder women are feeling just

absolutely knackered and stressed out

488

and just, not sure what's going on.

489

So I think actually there is, men can't

fix the menopause, but I think they can

490

do practical things to support a woman.

491

How she's feeling, so if she's tired.

492

Maybe ask if she needs more practical

help doing things, lighten the load.

493

Maybe it's doing more, doing

more in the house or, or I

494

don't know what that would be.

495

It depends on someone, but I think

that would be really helpful.

496

I think there, there are practical things

some, men can do or partners can do to

497

help their, their menopausal partner.

498

Yeah, so there are, there are things,

don't worry, there are things you can

499

fix if you want to, don't panic, there's

a list, I'm sure if you've got your

500

partner draw up a list, there'll be

lots of things that you can be getting

501

on with, so careful what you ask for.

502

Sal Jefferies: Exactly.

503

Yeah.

504

Do you know, because we're laughing at

this, but, and, and I think you need to

505

see the funny side when, things are good.

506

so between my, myself and my partner,

we should be going through these

507

roughly three month windows or cycles

and three months, things are pretty

508

good and she's, she's who she is.

509

I know her and three

months she's, she's off.

510

scaly lady.

511

with the one with the scales and you

know it's don't go near do not drop a

512

joke like that at that point it is not

going to go well and and like we can

513

joke about it when all is good and rosy

but it's it's yeah find some find some

514

lightness when you can but what i heard

in that and i just want to echo is you

515

need to know what you need oh you need

to be able to ask it both as a woman

516

as a man like like what do you need and

it probably needs to bounce back to the

517

man so like what what do you need and I

know my own, buttons have got pressed.

518

So one thing I've found as a man is

that when your partner changes and

519

they are not the person you, you met

or you got with, they, they become a

520

different version of that, of that woman.

521

It can feel, or it can trigger,

it's something that triggered for

522

me, some old patterns of rejection.

523

And that was really tough to deal with,

about how, how my stuff was coming up

524

and colouring my thinking and emotions.

525

which has nothing to do with what's

going on, but it was completely

526

triggered by the experience from my side.

527

And, and I think that's important.

528

We need to understand what our

needs are, both, both sides

529

and be able to speak of that.

530

It's just because we're not mind readers.

531

Just, just stop it.

532

No one can mind read.

533

You have to ask the question

and just get used to that.

534

What do you need today?

535

And it could bounce back.

536

Yeah.

537

Okay, cool.

538

What do you need?

539

Fine.

540

We now know, even if you don't know

what you need, the question, as you

541

beautifully said, you've been seen.

542

You've been seen and that's so important.

543

and perhaps even for, if a man's in a sort

of a insecure moment, yeah, I see you.

544

I don't know what I need, but I see you.

545

And that's, that's beautiful.

546

Talking about separating our stuff.

547

And this is coming from, from my space.

548

So as a man, it's easy to

get triggered when the person

549

that you know is different.

550

And you, your stuff comes up.

551

My, my take on it is you gotta do the

work and I have my own coach and therapist

552

and I, I'll continuously do the work that

I do with other people because why not?

553

I go to the gym all the time

and, I do my work all the time.

554

It's, it's how you stay well

and strong . It's deal with that

555

stuff that's coming up for you.

556

If it's, if you're a guy and

you're getting triggered, notice

557

it, it's really important because

you need that, that care as well.

558

And it's a great opportunity

to, to deal with.

559

Some unprocessed stuff.

560

And this brings me into

something more sensitive.

561

Intimacy.

562

Ah, okay.

563

suddenly we're not all

super lovey dovey anymore.

564

The intimacy might be going about the

window, libido's gone slightly downhill.

565

Okay, let's talk about that,

that subject which perhaps

566

doesn't get spoken about so much.

567

What's it like from a woman's

perspective when you know who you

568

are, you know how your body feels

and how you are in your relationship

569

and suddenly you don't feel the same.

570

What's that like for you?

571

Tanith Lee: hmm.

572

So I, I can talk from my own experience.

573

the menopause experience for

me was more psychological.

574

So I didn't really have so many of

the physical issues to start with.

575

they're catching up a little

bit now, but I didn't have.

576

hot flushes during the day.

577

I had terrible night sweats.

578

but I didn't, I didn't, I never

tallied the two things together.

579

Why would I was in my thirties?

580

Why would I be thinking about menopause?

581

I just didn't think about it.

582

so a lot of the time I was in my own head,

I guess is the best way, going through.

583

Feeling, having depressive kind

of thoughts and all those, and

584

it took me to, suicidal ideation.

585

let's, let's be honest.

586

We're here to be honest, right?

587

So that's where it took, it took me

very, yeah, that's where it took me.

588

So when I'm in, when I'm feeling like

that, the last thing I want is to be

589

intimate with someone and the answer's no.

590

That was my answer.

591

it's, and interesting.

592

I was talking to my husband about

this last night and he's, and you said

593

earlier about rejection and he said

he felt, he would have been, he would

594

have been in his thirties as well.

595

So it was really tough for him.

596

He was still a young man, not an old man

now, he was a young man and it was, it

597

was really, it was really tough for him.

598

He said it was really tough because

he took it as a personal rejection.

599

So not only are women, not only was I

not feeling like I wanted to be intimate

600

because I was just I felt so closed down.

601

I then felt guilty because I wasn't,

I wasn't able to bring something to

602

that side of our relationship, so it

just added to it and we didn't talk

603

about it because we didn't have the

tools back then, it's only now we can

604

reflect on it and this is why it's

important we have these conversations

605

right because we just He went off and

did, he dealt with stuff in his own way.

606

And I just shut down.

607

So that that's my experience.

608

Now, I've heard of people who

actually, it goes the other way.

609

All of a sudden, their libido gets,

increases and they get more, women

610

get more confident in themselves.

611

All of a sudden they're getting

older, they've got more experience,

612

they're feeling, feeling

more at ease in their body.

613

Now that's not as common, but

again, I just want to try and

614

keep the balance there a little

bit around women's experiences.

615

And I think again, it's the same thing.

616

I think.

617

Oh, it's so awkward and tricky for a lot

of people to talk about this stuff, but

618

finding a way to, to discuss it, I think

is the way, is the way forward, that is

619

not an area of my speciality, at all.

620

but I think conversations and the one

thing I have found about having awkward

621

conversations, because it's a running

theme in my relationship, is to change the

622

situation, where we have a conversation.

623

So for me, rather than just sitting there.

624

Opposite each other, which is quite

intimidating, going for a walk has

625

really been helpful and talking about

it, and actually on the phone as well,

626

that's something I've just recently

discovered, that having a, talking on the

627

phone about stuff feels easier as well.

628

but I will say, I'm, I'm a few

years post menopause now, my libido

629

has come back, stronger than ever.

630

So if that gives a little bit of

hope for the fellas out there,

631

yeah, just hang on in there.

632

I think hang on in there, lots of cuddles,

lots of reassurance, lots of touching,

633

and, and that kind of stuff I would

say for, for that and try not to take

634

it personally as a personal rejection.

635

It's just.

636

It's just something else that perhaps

a woman can't think about in that time.

637

We've got priorities, , and it's just,

I think that's, that's my all I can

638

say from my experience and a couple of

things I've heard from clients as well.

639

Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

640

Yeah, that's really, really

interesting to hear and thank you

641

for being so candid and honest.

642

yeah, it's interesting that you

make such a strong statement about,

643

try not to take it personally.

644

The problem with that is that if

it's encoded emotionally, so if we've

645

had a very difficult upbringing or

changing upbringing with attachment

646

issues, so if you don't know about

psychotherapeutics, there's some

647

principles around how we experience

connections to our parents, particularly

648

mother, but can be father as well.

649

How that affects us when we're young, how

that whole experience was for a young man.

650

can create a certain attachment

style and there's like avoidant

651

attachment, there's all these kind

of different attachment styles.

652

Put it this way, we don't need to get

caught up in the psychotherapeutics

653

of it, but what we do know, if you

get triggered, you're having a high

654

emotional response, you feel rejected

or feel hurt or very confused.

655

Don't bury it, because it's happening.

656

It's a little like we were suggesting, if

a woman's feeling raged, don't bury it.

657

Express it, but find a good way.

658

So for men, if you're like, oh

god, I feel literally rejected.

659

I don't know who my wife is,

or my partner is, or it could

660

be your business colleague.

661

I don't know who my business

colleague is anymore.

662

Just, whoever's being, feels

like a kind of rejection.

663

Attend to the experience of rejection

because that's going on for you and

664

that, again, if we suppress that

as a man, that's just as unhealthy.

665

So if it looks like, go get

some therapy on it, go speak to

666

someone who deals with this stuff.

667

There's plenty of skilled people that

can navigate you through that tricky bit.

668

And by goodness me, as soon as we

know something, us men, we're like,

669

Oh, okay, that's how this works.

670

Our wonderful brains come online and

we can start to process the emotions.

671

And actually then we're not adding to the

menopause problem, a subtle difficulty

672

where we are dealing with our stuff.

673

And you're, the woman in your

life is dealing with her stuff.

674

And then there's a growth together.

675

I think there's quite a powerful

thing about change equals growth,

676

but you have to choose growth, right?

677

You have to choose it.

678

If you deny or bury it with your

man or woman, Oh no, this is fine.

679

No, it's not fine.

680

This is happening.

681

That's what we do about it.

682

Okay, cool.

683

With, with intimacy, I think again, it's

coming down to having those conversations.

684

I love what you said about

going for a walk cause it's

685

a little less intimidating.

686

I think one of the things I would add

to that a bit more skillful conversation

687

is to talk from the first person.

688

So if it's a case of I say, you're not

touching me anymore and you don't want

689

to, be intimate, that's a quite a blame

orientation where if it's, I want to

690

touch you, but you don't like that.

691

Or, I want to be with you

intimately, but you're, you're,

692

you're not giving me the signals.

693

We're talking from the

first person's experience.

694

It is undeniable and it's not about blame.

695

And if we change that

nuance, just, I'm feeling.

696

I feel rejected.

697

I feel like I want to, I feel I miss you.

698

Whatever it is.

699

If you say from I, my goodness me, it

just helps smooth out the conversation.

700

It gets rid of blame and argument and

it gets into what true communication is.

701

I have the right to speak and I have

the right to be heard, and you have

702

the right to speak and the right

to be heard, and we together will

703

do a lot better if we do this, than

just throwing stuff at each other.

704

Cool.

705

Tanith, perhaps I can get your thoughts on

some things we haven't touched on so far,

706

about the whole experience, the menopause

experience, the run up, the experience.

707

What else would you like to bring today

and really help us understand better?

708

Tanith Lee: I think, it feels like.

709

I think the more we can understand

menopause before women are going through

710

it, and it's a tricky one, I think women

are, we're becoming more aware of cycles,

711

and women are tracking cycles, and, and

what's going on with their body, which

712

is great, that seems, that, that, that's

really good, and the more we can start

713

to understand that, perhaps, younger,

in our, thirties and forties, then, then

714

it's going to, Pretty much guarantee that

it's going to be an easier transition when

715

we get to that because we're looking at

where we're more in more in touch with

716

our bodies, we're more in touch with

our cycles, we know what's going on.

717

I think because of contraception,

which of course is needed.

718

A lot of women are completely unaware

of their cycles, and we even cycle after

719

we finish our periods, so it's, it's.

720

really understanding our bodies

and what we have in our needs.

721

There's a big movement now, even

training exercise in, in, with the,

722

with your cycle in certain phases

of your menstrual cycle, because we

723

are, we don't do go through cycles.

724

And if we can start to identify how

we're feeling and what we need in

725

those cycles, then, and, and, and,

and, and implementing those things.

726

Then as we, get into menopause,

coming towards menopause, we're much

727

more, attuned to what's going on.

728

And also probably we've started to

look after ourselves a little bit.

729

So it means our body is going to be.

730

Nourished in all ways, so whether that's

through food, whether that's through

731

relationships, whether that's through

whatever, whatever area of a life, not

732

feeling nourished, I think is a really

lovely word to use in, in, in menopause.

733

So awareness of what's going on.

734

And also I'm a big, big advocate

when I work with clients

735

is making little changes.

736

Because I think if a woman has got

two perimenopause and it feels like

737

she feels hopeless and she's really

struggling, any big change is going

738

to be really tricky, really tricky.

739

So I think little, little, little

micro changes I think are really,

740

and we don't value those micro

changes, but those little changes...

741

done over time can really add

up and make a big, make a big

742

influence to how a woman's feeling.

743

I think we feel like unless we're

making some big, grand, massive,

744

transformational gestures and changing

this and radically changing that, that

745

it's not going to make a difference.

746

And actually it really does.

747

And it feels much more doable

for somebody who is knackered.

748

all up and down moods and

maybe, different food cravings,

749

just, just feels more doable.

750

So don't underestimate small changes and

also the power of, power of eating well.

751

And it doesn't have to be perfect,

but just adding in some more of the

752

good stuff can make a difference.

753

We, our body has such, different

needs at different times of our lives.

754

So it needs more, particularly the body,

because it's a stress, it can be felt the

755

body can perceive it with the stress, so

we can add more nourishment into our body.

756

It's going to help the body give it

the nutrients it needs and a cellular

757

level to be able to perform basically.

758

so I just, I, I, I'm a great

advocate of adding in, just add it.

759

So I don't, for working with clients.

760

I've got a client at the moment, actually

her first, yeah, all we're doing with

761

her at the moment is just, I said,

look, I don't, I'm not going to say

762

to you, you're going to have to eat a

different type of meal to your family.

763

You're going to cook a separate meal

because that's just crazy, right?

764

Because that's just adding so much

more stress to your, to your day.

765

Let's just kind of like pimp

up your meal a little bit.

766

Let's just add some more bits

and pieces in that feels doable.

767

and then, that, that's

just an easy way to do it.

768

So it's just those easy

wins, I think is, is, is.

769

is what can be really helpful and

we hear about exercise and movement.

770

We are designed to move and even

more I think, as we're getting

771

older, our bodies are changing and

it's not just menopause, is it?

772

We're getting older and it's

looking after our bodies.

773

So it's, we hear about

resistance training, mobility.

774

looking after our heart health, so

cardiovascular, all these things.

775

But again, we can keep it simple

because sometimes that can

776

all feel a bit overwhelming.

777

Like we think, I've got to be

in the gym every day and it

778

doesn't have to be like that.

779

Again, 10 minutes of doing

something is better than no minutes.

780

10 pushups, as you said earlier,

it's better than no pushups

781

without, even two pushups.

782

is better than no push ups because they

add up and you said and that's really

783

interesting what you said earlier

about that push response to the stress.

784

I didn't know that so I've really learned

something new today, but I think that that

785

just those don't underestimate the little

changes I think is probably the take home.

786

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, beautiful.

787

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

788

And, because you're so experienced in this

field and you've seen it in nutrition,

789

you see it with exercise, you see it

with the women you're working with.

790

you're, and it's something.

791

I've seen, I think what we're talking

to here is a bigger, like a meta

792

thinking process, a boom and bust,

it's the sort of 12 weeks to a beach

793

body, which is just ridiculous.

794

It doesn't happen, right?

795

Give it 10 years, you'll get it, right?

796

12 weeks, to get it.

797

It's not.

798

And I'm all about consistency.

799

If you look at any literature,

any research around fitness,

800

health, nutritional changes,

body composition changes.

801

Consistency is key, and as you beautifully

alluded to, small steps, but consistently

802

applying that, whether you're adding

some, some, some, whatever nutrition

803

you need to be, B vitamins, whatever

the thing is, and same with movement.

804

Forget the big grand gestures, do the

work every day, small steps and as

805

you rightly said, it goes to compound

interest, the idea of finance is

806

that you save like a couple of quid

every day and it's compact, but over

807

time like you get a lot of return.

808

A health pension is exactly the same.

809

Invest small and often and don't start,

you will get so much reward and I want

810

to, I want to speak to the movement part.

811

So much of work I, I do

around human performance.

812

Yes.

813

I look at psychology.

814

It's a huge part.

815

Emotions.

816

Absolutely.

817

Fundamentally run how we're

thinking, but our body is our mind.

818

We are embodied.

819

We, we don't live in a body.

820

We live through our body.

821

So if our body is in not good

shape, because you've been

822

busy being a mom, you've been

busy with work, all this stuff.

823

Okay.

824

But the minute you wake up and

realize it's not quite as it needs

825

to be, it doesn't feel the way I

want it to be, that's the minute you

826

want to start making some changes.

827

As you've said, Hannah, it's

small changes, but keep repeating.

828

And Daily Yoga.

829

I'm, I'm no spring chicken, I say it a

lot, I'm, I'm, I'm pushing hard, I've

830

gone a half a century already and yes,

I'm not a woman, I'm not in menopause,

831

but to, to other men, I now, I now live

like an athlete, I train all the time

832

and now sometimes I can't do as much,

I'm not a kid, but because over the

833

last probably eight years, I've really

been steadily building up, building

834

up, building up, my body's okay, we get

this, we can do what you want to do now.

835

If I tried to do what I do

now, like in, in, even in six

836

months, I'd just be injured.

837

I'd be in a terrible state.

838

So I think the, the sort of take

home is get connected to your body.

839

Definitely.

840

And there's many ways somatic therapeutic

work, yoga, Tai Chi, and, for women,

841

and I was at the gym this morning and

I really applaud all the women there,

842

a lot of weightlifting going on.

843

And one thing I'll say to any

people who don't understand

844

exercise, it's not how you look.

845

That's when you're younger.

846

It's how you feel.

847

It really is.

848

And yes, body composition change is

nice, but you can't beat feeling strong.

849

You can't beat feeling connected.

850

You can't beat feeling

assured in yourself.

851

And yeah, you might, your body might

look a bit nicer or not as nice

852

as way, but the feeling supersedes

the image by such a large amount.

853

So if you're really struggling with how

you're feeling about yourself, I feel

854

one of the go tos is go to exercise.

855

And any exercise we'll do at the

beginning, just anything will

856

give you the moving forwards.

857

Because if you get a relationship

with your body that's strong, you

858

are in relationship with yourself.

859

And that is obviously one of

the hardest things that I see,

860

is that the relationship with

ourself is falling apart inside.

861

So if the relationship between

mind and body happens, we go there.

862

What's

863

your thoughts on that

864

Tanith Lee: Yeah.

865

Absolutely.

866

Absolutely.

867

I've been, I've taught various types

868

So it's been, it's been a

while and that's changed.

869

And what I've noticed with my, I used

to be into the body transformation

870

and I've done that, I've done

that, I've done all of that stuff.

871

but I think anybody that's starting

with exercise or somebody that's perhaps

872

coming back into exercise, which is my

experience, because I've been getting

873

so many different injuries and it's put

me off doing the stuff I used to love,

874

which would be lifting heavy stuff.

875

For me to re regain that spark.

876

I just thought, what do I love doing?

877

And actually it's constant about a

bit with music, exercise to music.

878

Do you know that's, that,

that's what kind of gets me.

879

'cause it's the music, it's, that's

what kind of, and and, and it just

880

reminded me of just what you've said

about that connection and that joy,

881

and then, and a little bit of, it

feels a bit fun and I get that lift.

882

And from there then that's,

it feels like that kind of.

883

Fires up my brain then

to explore other stuff.

884

and weightlifting is fantastic.

885

and my own personal experiences.

886

It's so frustrating that I can't

at the moment do it as well

887

as I do it as much as I could.

888

because if I get so

many injuries and that.

889

As a woman goes through menopause,

the estrogen levels, when they drop,

890

it changes our muscle and it changes

our tendons and our ligaments.

891

And we get more prone to, to injuries.

892

So I would always, Make sure we're

following a program that takes into

893

account a change in women's body

if you're, if you're, if you're,

894

especially if you're new to it.

895

but yeah, there's, there's so much

evidence, isn't there, about exercise,

896

resistance training and, and.

897

And what you said about feeling strong.

898

I still want to be able to go

in the garden and lug out, lug

899

the massive bags of compost.

900

I still want to feel that strong.

901

I've, I've, that's powerful for me.

902

So that's my kind of motivation

to do that, to feel strong.

903

Not so much, how it looks.

904

Yeah, if it happens, it's nice,

but it's just, it's the feeling.

905

of it.

906

And I think that, that

changes my motivation as well.

907

Then it changes how I train a little

bit more rather than just the aesthetic.

908

I've had a six pack.

909

I've been really lean.

910

I've done all that.

911

It still wasn't enough.

912

I still looked in the mirror and I still

thought, so it's more than that for me.

913

And I'm not saying there's nothing wrong

with body transformation, all that.

914

But I think, it's just finding for women,

finding a way that works, works for them.

915

So if you need to go and do Zumba or

anything like, dancey, go and do it.

916

If it gets you moving and it makes

you smile and it gets you a bit hot

917

and sweaty, great, because it just,

it's invigorating and I think on a

918

cellular level when you get into that.

919

Sal Jefferies: Absolutely.

920

Yeah, I love that.

921

And a word you said there which is so

important, certainly if you're having

922

darkness and difficulty, is joy.

923

joy is such a vibrant human

experience and it's not happiness.

924

When it's about buying things

that's, that's, joy is this depth.

925

You can't

926

change it.

927

Joy is this sort of inner

radiance, inner loveliness.

928

That is just so wonderful.

929

And if you're really struggling.

930

If you can find moments of joy, then

they're kind of like, I imagine like

931

a, lily pads, which is like a beautiful

frog would hop and that joy lily pad.

932

You can jump onto it.

933

Yeah, it's a bit of rubbishy

water in between, but let's

934

hop onto the next joy lily pad.

935

And.

936

and that's what I've seen from my

personal, in my personal life, and some

937

of the clients I've been working with, is

finding those points, so they're almost

938

way points, so if you're in a difficult

place, know that there's a good bit

939

coming, you might be going to the gym, you

might be going to Zumba, you, whatever it

940

is, You might be speaking to your other

half and saying, you know what, tonight I

941

need you to go, or I need a foot massage

or we need to the pub, whatever it is.

942

And, and that permission, that,

that communication, that openness,

943

it seems to me to be some of the

most important constituents to

944

navigate, menopause and that whole

experience in a more healthy way.

945

So we're not saying it's

going to magically be better.

946

That's just silly.

947

it's going to be difficulty, but if

difficulty is balanced by some joy

948

and some connections and growth, then.

949

there's a lot of spiritual masters

that talk about suffering is

950

beautiful if you understand it well.

951

So we're not talking

about living in misery.

952

No, of course not.

953

But getting through adversity.

954

but with understanding and learning

that creates post traumatic growth.

955

Disoppression and not understanding

stuff, confusion can create more

956

like a post traumatic response.

957

So if we aim for growth, it's

like, how do I make sense of this?

958

How do I have people on board?

959

And everything we've covered

today, hopefully will be some

960

of those constituent pieces.

961

Tanith Lee: No, I love that.

962

And I love what you said about, I can't

remember the exact phrase, but for what

963

you said, but I've got the analogy of

the lily pads and I love, and I love

964

that, that I can, I'm quite a visual

person, so I can really see that.

965

and my, my daughter, she, she's 20

now, but she probably said this about

966

a year ago to me, when I was going

through a little bit of, Feeling a

967

bit, feeling a bit low and stuff.

968

And she said, Mum, she goes, I

have to have something to look

969

forward to every week that I'm

going to do or, with someone.

970

She goes, otherwise, what's the point?

971

And those words have really

stuck with me because I just

972

thought, that's it, isn't it?

973

It's just finding those little things.

974

that we can look forward to, even

if we're feeling really rubbish,

975

even if it's small, doesn't have

to cost money, none of that.

976

You're just having those little

things to look forward to, just

977

so we can take our eyes from the

ground and lift them up to the sky.

978

Just have a little bit

of, a little bit of hope.

979

And I think, yeah, what you said

about, hopping from the lily pads.

980

I'm going to take that with me today.

981

Thank you for sharing that.

982

Sal Jefferies: You're very welcome.

983

You're very welcome.

984

I'm going to sum up something from

a man's side, and I'd love for

985

you to sum up from a woman's side.

986

so as a man experiencing, say, my

partner going through menopause, it's

987

been really hard, and I've learnt a lot

about us, and I've learnt a lot about

988

tolerance, I've learnt a lot about what

I need to work on in me, and, and I've

989

also learnt that nothing lasts forever.

990

So if you're having a difficult month or

whatever it is, it's yeah, this is tough.

991

But here's the thing, nothing lasts

forever, it doesn't biochemically, it

992

doesn't psychologically, everything

goes through cycles, so know that

993

if you're in a tricky spot, you're

gonna, you're gonna come through it.

994

But what can you learn about yourself?

995

Speak up, listen up, and

create that communication.

996

Those are the things that have worked and

made things better in my personal life.

997

I've had a lot of the female clients I've

worked with echo similar things, so that's

998

what I've seen from a male perspective.

999

Tanith, what would you like to close on

for, for your thoughts and your wisdom?

00:51:56,911 --> 00:52:00,571

Tanith Lee: I think the menopause

is just a part of aging.

00:52:00,581 --> 00:52:05,751

We haven't talked about what happens

to men when they go through a hormone.

00:52:05,751 --> 00:52:09,461

It's not as, as, as, as obvious,

but change, it's just change and

00:52:09,461 --> 00:52:10,841

it's just getting older, isn't it?

00:52:10,851 --> 00:52:12,651

And it's just noticing that.

00:52:13,721 --> 00:52:16,871

and you, you just use the

word wisdom and I love that.

00:52:17,031 --> 00:52:23,101

And I really do think there is so

much wisdom For women, we've got so

00:52:23,451 --> 00:52:27,761

much to give, and we do ourselves a

disservice as we go through menopause.

00:52:28,581 --> 00:52:32,091

And if you think how long

we're living now, potentially

00:52:32,241 --> 00:52:34,911

half our life post menopause.

00:52:35,061 --> 00:52:35,761

Potentially.

00:52:36,431 --> 00:52:37,191

That's huge.

00:52:37,841 --> 00:52:39,481

And a lot of women are

writing themselves off.

00:52:40,116 --> 00:52:43,736

They like saying they're not, don't

feel sexy, they don't feel seen, they

00:52:43,736 --> 00:52:48,876

don't feel, worthwhile, all that stuff,

which is just, unfortunately, like

00:52:48,876 --> 00:52:53,586

a script we've been fed because it

isn't like that in the whole world.

00:52:53,736 --> 00:52:59,176

There are parts of the world that the

elder woman, is revered and, she's

00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:04,686

full of wisdom and strength and she's,

she's someone to be admired and looked

00:53:04,686 --> 00:53:07,126

upon with, for, yeah, for the wisdom.

00:53:07,126 --> 00:53:09,316

So I think it's taking

that with, with that.

00:53:09,336 --> 00:53:15,516

It's understanding our own menopause

script and how we can start to change

00:53:15,516 --> 00:53:21,376

that for ourselves and for those around

us and perhaps for the generations to

00:53:21,376 --> 00:53:26,921

come, because We can rewrite it because

we could have so much to give and I

00:53:26,931 --> 00:53:29,691

think we have to go through this change.

00:53:30,281 --> 00:53:33,601

Mother Nature just needs, it's

given us a little bit of a whoop,

00:53:34,671 --> 00:53:36,551

a little bit of a take notice.

00:53:36,691 --> 00:53:41,131

you've got opportunities here to grow,

to learn and to, to, to without sounding

00:53:41,131 --> 00:53:43,321

too cheesy and cliche, step into, this.

00:53:44,481 --> 00:53:48,261

Older, wiser version of

yourself, and it's all possible.

00:53:48,321 --> 00:53:50,121

So I think that's really

what I'd like to share.

00:53:50,661 --> 00:53:51,231

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful.

00:53:51,421 --> 00:53:51,911

Beautiful.

00:53:51,991 --> 00:53:52,501

Love that.

00:53:52,761 --> 00:53:56,781

and if we're only halfway done,

we need to invest in everything,

00:53:56,911 --> 00:53:58,421

ourselves, everything, isn't it?

00:53:58,691 --> 00:54:01,851

If you're only halfway there,

do not write yourself off.

00:54:02,091 --> 00:54:04,931

I, I, I'm a big advocate

of this in midlife.

00:54:04,971 --> 00:54:07,551

I'm like, okay, midlife, people

talk about midlife crisis.

00:54:08,031 --> 00:54:10,411

people don't understand the

word crisis comes from the Greek

00:54:10,561 --> 00:54:12,471

krisis, which means choice.

00:54:12,846 --> 00:54:13,356

Decision.

00:54:14,426 --> 00:54:17,576

So you have a decision at midlife,

whether you're male or female.

00:54:18,526 --> 00:54:19,786

What are you going to choose?

00:54:19,826 --> 00:54:21,636

Because choice is power, right?

00:54:21,646 --> 00:54:23,026

It's the ultimate gift of consciousness.

00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:25,056

If what we choose, how do

I, how do I work with this?

00:54:25,056 --> 00:54:25,686

What do I do?

00:54:26,006 --> 00:54:29,056

Choice is power and what you

said there is just mind blowing.

00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:29,706

Yeah.

00:54:29,706 --> 00:54:29,946

Okay.

00:54:29,946 --> 00:54:30,156

God.

00:54:30,156 --> 00:54:30,396

Yeah.

00:54:30,396 --> 00:54:31,136

We're only halfway done.

00:54:31,136 --> 00:54:31,846

Thanks for reminding me.

00:54:31,846 --> 00:54:32,506

Of course we are.

00:54:32,816 --> 00:54:36,226

And if you're halfway done, there's

a lot of good stuff to come.

00:54:36,226 --> 00:54:36,556

So

00:54:37,786 --> 00:54:38,126

yeah.

00:54:38,176 --> 00:54:38,726

Amazing.

00:54:39,606 --> 00:54:39,956

Wow.

00:54:40,046 --> 00:54:42,506

thank you so much for sharing

some of your thoughts.

00:54:42,526 --> 00:54:44,876

Of course you are super

knowledgeable on this.

00:54:44,936 --> 00:54:48,086

we will put Tanya's details in the show

notes for anyone who wants to reach out

00:54:48,086 --> 00:54:51,536

and learn more because she obviously has

vast amounts of knowledge, more than I do.

00:54:51,606 --> 00:54:53,106

And, and obviously an absolute specialist.

00:54:53,476 --> 00:54:54,586

it is lovely to see you.

00:54:54,686 --> 00:54:55,286

Thank you.

00:54:55,396 --> 00:55:00,266

And, My dear listener, I hope you

have collected wisdom, insights, and

00:55:00,266 --> 00:55:04,236

perhaps a few nuggets you can implement

into your life with a man, with

00:55:04,236 --> 00:55:07,326

your man or woman, whether it's your

partner or your colleague or friend,

00:55:08,436 --> 00:55:11,646

take action, make your own choices,

and I'll see you on the next one.

00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:16,680

Thank you so much for listening.

00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:20,520

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,610

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:27,810

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:36,720

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:40,380

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

00:55:41,325 --> 00:55:44,205

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

00:55:44,205 --> 00:55:48,885

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

00:55:48,885 --> 00:55:52,275

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how this may be able to help you.

00:55:53,145 --> 00:55:55,065

Until the next time, take care.