Shownotes
Episode Summary
Eric Eisele is an entrepreneur, environmentalist and CEO of Growflux, a horticultural tech company offering automation and cloud technologies aimed at resource efficiency and yield expansion for indoor farms, and greenhouses. Today, Harry speaks to Eric about Eric’s Philly roots and his rich experience in design and architecture, wireless engineering and renewable energy. Eric expounds on circadian lighting, providing controls for lighting and his passion for fostering resource efficiency and environmental stewardship in agriculture.
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Key Takeaways
07:13 – Harry welcomes to the show, Eric Eisele, who talks about his Philly roots, building lasers and computers at a young age, and the mentors who have been inspirations to Eric
13:07 – An intense interest in photonics
15:46 – Working with KieranTimberlake
19:47 – From high-performing architecture to vertical farming
23:44 – Circadian lighting, horticulture and GLASE Consortium
27:20 – Mesh lighting and the hospitality industry
35:13 – Providing controls for lighting as opposed to manufacturing lighting
38:37 – How Eric has grown and evolved as a leader and CEO
41:09 – Future trends and innovations Eric expects in the controls and lighting segment of vertical farming
43:51 – A tough question Eric has had to ask himself recently
45:09 – The importance of maintaining and fostering relationships
49:36 – A specific ask Eric has for the audience
51:50 – Harry thanks Eric for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can connect with him and learn more about Growflux
Tweetable Quotes
“One of the most fascinating things to me about that trajectory - moving from architecture of high-performing buildings to this space - is I’ve been able to see how this industry is maturing and borrowing practices and concepts from the commercial building space.” (20:35) (Eric)
“At GrowFlux, we haven’t been doing a lot of sensor work commercially lately. Internally we use a lot of sensors. We do a lot of sensing with our own technology. We’ve seen how a building envelope can drive thermogradients within a cultivation space; we’re very familiar with that. And it’s something that there’s really not enough people that are looking at it and accounting for it in the design process.” (23:12) (Eric)
“We’ve always known that light is a very significant driver for our own biological clocks. But in 2008, researchers discovered some cells inside the eye that are called Intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells (ipRGCs). What these cells do is they don’t create images, they detect light. And they detect specific wavelengths of light that are centered on blue. And what that does is it triggers a hormonal response that regulates the release of serotonin and melatonin that ultimately determine our biological clock throughout the day.” (25:22) (Eric)
“What we’re doing is we’re supporting a lot of these initiatives by providing very robust API- addressable controls down to every light.” (34:49) (Eric)
“For me, who I look to for inspiration is really other founders because it is a really unique circumstance when your passion project for many years is your livelihood and is your entire existence really.” (40:10) (Eric)
“Ultimately, this industry has so much growth ahead of it. And, I really feel, in the coming years and decades, that we are going to have to hyperscale and we have to learn from other industries.” (50:40) (Eric)
Resources Mentioned
Eric’s Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericeisele
Growflux – https://growflux.com/
Growflux LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/growflux/
KieranTimberlake – https://kierantimberlake.com/
Sponsor Info
Cultivatd’s Website – https://cultivatd.com/
Cultivatd’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cultivatdco/
Cultivatd’s Twitter – https://twitter.com/cultivatd
Cultivatd’s Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/cultivatd/
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:help connect you to the right technology and ensure your project is successful.
Speaker:Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners.
Speaker:Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. I would say, you know, one of
Speaker:the really interesting things I've learned over, over the last couple of years in this
Speaker:space is, you know, a lot of people that
Speaker:are in, you know, a high-level decision-making role in this industry,
Speaker:if they don't have a lot of skin in the game, there's a
Speaker:propensity to just take the easy path and get the sale
Speaker:and show the sales numbers. And, you know, we have
Speaker:seen how that plays out over the long term.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations
Speaker:with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech
Speaker:visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the
Speaker:world of vertical farming. With your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 6. Welcome back. If this is your first time
Speaker:listening, we always roll out the green carpet for any new listeners.
Speaker:Thank you for finding this show. If you found it through a
Speaker:recommendation, if you found it through a search, I'm always fascinated to
Speaker:know how folks are discovering the show. So send me an email,
Speaker:[email protected]. I would love to hear
Speaker:that. This is the show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading
Speaker:vertical farming companies from around the world. And I'm your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:In case you missed last episode, we spoke to Christos Raptogiannis, the
Speaker:founder and CEO of CityCrop. He joined the show to share his passion
Speaker:for agriculture and how the agtech industry has been evolving in
Speaker:Greece. We had a really heartfelt conversation. His
Speaker:enthusiasm was infectious, and I think you'll really enjoy that
Speaker:conversation if you want to learn about what's happening abroad. I know we talk a
Speaker:lot about what's happening here in the States and in the UK, And other
Speaker:countries are really making their mark in agtech as well.
Speaker:Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Eric Izel. He is the CEO of
Speaker:GrowFlux. It's a company that offers automation and cloud technologies
Speaker:aimed at resource efficiency and yield expansion for indoor farms and
Speaker:greenhouses. And today we talk about Eric's Philly roots,
Speaker:his rich experience in design and architecture, wireless engineering, and
Speaker:renewable energy. We definitely geek out a bit on
Speaker:circadian lighting, providing controls for lighting, and his passion for
Speaker:fostering resource efficiency and environmental stewardship in
Speaker:agtech. I learned a lot in this episode, and I know you will as well.
Speaker:Remember, if you enjoyed this episode or past episodes, I'd love it if you leave
Speaker:a rating and a review at
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp so I can read yours out on a future episode. Okay, before
Speaker:we jump into this uninterrupted conversation with Eric, here are a few
Speaker:words from the folks that support this show. This episode is brought to you by
Speaker:NetLed. From consultation and technology to services and maintenance,
Speaker:NetLed has the complete package. Whether it's your first vertical farm or
Speaker:you need help scaling an existing operation, NetLed can help. They offer both
Speaker:service and technology business solutions for vegetable and herb producers, from
Speaker:pilot phase projects to industrial scale mass production. And with Vera,
Speaker:you have the only true end-to-end turnkey vertical farming solution on the market.
Speaker:Learn more at netled.fi. Or you can visit their North
Speaker:American showcase facility in Calgary, Canada. If you'll be attending the
Speaker:Global Produce and Floral Show in Orlando, Florida this October
Speaker:27th through 29th, then please visit the NetLed booth
Speaker:at the FutureTech Pavilion. The team would love to meet you. So Eric
Speaker:Isley, CEO of GrowFlux, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast.
Speaker:Hey, it's great to join you. So what's the last
Speaker:conference you've been at vertical farming-wise? Oh, geez.
Speaker:Well, we just got back from Cultivate. Before that, we did
Speaker:Indoor AgTech in Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah, that was great. I think the last vertical farming
Speaker:one. Yep, that's where we met. Yep. And what's your usual takeaways
Speaker:when you come back home? Do you— how do you decide if, uh, a
Speaker:conference visit was productive or worth your
Speaker:time? Oh, that's a loaded question. So we really
Speaker:enjoyed the conference. Some conferences are for
Speaker:generating leads and doing business. Some
Speaker:conferences are more about positioning
Speaker:and building relationships. And so I would say this
Speaker:one was a little bit more of the latter compared to other conferences
Speaker:where we're quite literally taking orders. Yeah. Oh, okay. And
Speaker:this is Cultivate? Yeah. Cultivate would be a little bit more of like the order
Speaker:kind of taking conference. Okay. And I don't think I'm familiar with that one. Where
Speaker:was that? It's in Columbus, Ohio. Okay. It's been there for ages.
Speaker:It's more centered around the greenhouse agriculture space.
Speaker:Yeah. And where's home for you now?
Speaker:Philadelphia. Okay. And were you born and raised there? Yes.
Speaker:Okay. What's something about Philadelphia that people don't know
Speaker:about but they should? Well, specific to this industry, we have— we're very close to
Speaker:Kennett, Pennsylvania. And it's one of the
Speaker:largest centers for controlled environment agriculture in the
Speaker:US, primarily from the mushroom cultivation
Speaker:industry. There's a pretty significant packing
Speaker:logistics and distribution business that has
Speaker:come about due to around half of all the mushrooms being grown
Speaker:in one county. But, you know, today it's really
Speaker:diversified into other perishables. on the
Speaker:logistics side. And there's a lot of
Speaker:momentum to bring, to really grow indoor vertical farming in
Speaker:this region. What was life like growing up in Philadelphia?
Speaker:Well, I grew up in the suburbs. Okay. Went to college, Drexel University in
Speaker:Philadelphia. Okay. You know, I grew up with an interest in horticulture and
Speaker:agriculture. I was a tinkerer. And so
Speaker:most of my interests took me into more into the physics
Speaker:realm and semiconductors, material science.
Speaker:And, you know, I think shortly after I left college
Speaker:and started a career in architecture, I kind of looked at
Speaker:what's happening in the industry and decided to kind of take some
Speaker:passions and pull them together and enter the space. Where if,
Speaker:if you, if I was to ask your parents, what were some of the projects
Speaker:you were tinkering with when you, when you were younger? What would they say?
Speaker:Oh yeah, I would get in trouble with my mom quite a bit. I was
Speaker:into a lot of electrical engineering kind of
Speaker:projects from an early age around middle
Speaker:school. She was always afraid I would burn the house down. I was
Speaker:building lasers and— Oh, wow. Building
Speaker:things like, you know, laser activated. Well,
Speaker:yeah, let's just say I was in the model rocketry. You don't want to get
Speaker:into the specifics. I was a little kid, so I'm like, I'm knocking
Speaker:on my door. Where were you getting these instructions? Is it
Speaker:you're just looking up stuff on the web or— Yeah, I mean, in the early
Speaker:days of the internet, I mean, it wasn't that early for the internet, but there
Speaker:was much fewer resources out there. So, you know, before
Speaker:the college years, you know, bear in mind my
Speaker:freshman year in college, we were— my university was one of
Speaker:the handful that had early access to Facebook. Oh, wow. So to put that
Speaker:in perspective, that's— yeah, you know, I grew up on the internet pre-Facebook
Speaker:and building computers and running various flavors of Linux and
Speaker:such. And so, that's kind of a little bit of where I came from. And
Speaker:back then, most of the information came from just
Speaker:websites, these pretty simple websites. Some of them are still up, actually. I
Speaker:check them out from time to time. And if it's not that,
Speaker:it's some pretty dusty books. Was there anyone
Speaker:that you remember being an inspiration, either from books you read
Speaker:or stuff you were looking up, you know, other famous tinkerers? Yeah, I
Speaker:was involved in the International Science and Engineering Fair as a kid.
Speaker:Pretty early on, started building relationship with some faculty
Speaker:at Drexel University, this school I went to. So they kind of started
Speaker:recruiting me in high school. So, you know, I kind of
Speaker:started getting exposed. from like an early age. Yeah.
Speaker:And I think back, I'm a child of the '80s. So I think back in
Speaker:that time it was Radio Shack. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, that, yeah, they, you know, they were good if you needed,
Speaker:you know, some supplies or solder or whatever. But back when
Speaker:I was younger, there was a number of websites that you could just
Speaker:buy all these like surplus electronics from.
Speaker:And sometimes you just end up with this box of just random parts, unmarked
Speaker:electronic components. And so it was always kind of a challenge. When I was a
Speaker:kid, my dad would take me over to— there was this
Speaker:educational store. Today it's an educational store. It's called
Speaker:Edmund Scientific, and they ran a surplus shop, and you could
Speaker:buy like old military hardware. Wow. Like
Speaker:some of the stuff you could buy was just like unbelievable. I think they closed
Speaker:that portion down. Yeah. And today it's just the optics and education
Speaker:division. But yeah, I was always getting my hands on
Speaker:Yeah, lots of interesting hardware as an electronics
Speaker:tinkerer back when I was young. Well, kudos to your folks to let you do
Speaker:some of that exploration, I guess with the only caveat that you don't burn the
Speaker:house down. Yeah, they were very accommodating. That's
Speaker:nice. So you mentioned the optics and obviously the lasers, and I saw
Speaker:early on that you were doing work with LEDs and
Speaker:understanding how to influence circadian
Speaker:patterns with LEDs. Did you feel that, you know, with the things that
Speaker:you were tinkering in, that that aspect, the laser, the optics,
Speaker:that's really what was piquing your attention? Well, yeah, I mean, I always had
Speaker:a pretty intense interest in photonics.
Speaker:Around, you know, when I was in college, I started working for DuPont.
Speaker:Okay. Mostly on the processing, purification,
Speaker:and testing of high-performance OLED materials. These are organic
Speaker:light-emitting semiconductors. So they're essentially small
Speaker:plastic-like molecules that you can, you know, you can inject print, you could
Speaker:vapor deposit onto a surface and make that pixelless. Yeah.
Speaker:So the same technology that's used today in smartphone displays, most
Speaker:predominantly. I was working in the lab and, you know,
Speaker:kind of seeing what it takes to move the needle in some of
Speaker:the leading-edge photonics technologies. I mean, we were
Speaker:a team of 500 chemists and engineers within our business unit.
Speaker:with substantial investment over many, many years
Speaker:to build these high-performing semiconductor materials that
Speaker:efficiently create light and, you know, for the purpose of displays.
Speaker:And so I have, you know, that firsthand experience, you know, being at that
Speaker:bleeding edge, being in this, you know, just a cog in this very large
Speaker:organization. And, you know, we started to engage
Speaker:a little bit of that with GrowFlux. Yeah. Back in the really early
Speaker:days of GrowFlux, we were trying to push
Speaker:the formulation of the phosphor materials to actually
Speaker:create combinations of, you know, violet
Speaker:phosphor converted plus green phosphor converted.
Speaker:The idea of just mixing the right blend of
Speaker:broad-spectrum phosphor converted LEDs for horticulture and
Speaker:deep red LEDs to get the overall aggregate efficiency up.
Speaker:as well as maintaining tunability. So that was one of the things I was looking
Speaker:at with GrowFlux, but it's a really tough game to play in
Speaker:as a small company because it's very expensive to
Speaker:obtain the phosphor materials themselves. There's a lot of patents
Speaker:around it. It's dominated by a number of
Speaker:companies that have decades of experience in the phosphor space.
Speaker:So, you know, in the really early days of GrowFlux, we were
Speaker:engineering at the, you LED chip level. And so,
Speaker:over time, more and more, we've gotten away from that and
Speaker:instead really focused on the wireless IoT and cloud
Speaker:aspects of cultural lighting. Yeah. So, that was the
Speaker:focus of the work you were doing at Keirin Timberlake as well, just
Speaker:developing and understanding the possibilities with IoT? Well,
Speaker:so Keirin Timberlake is a really fascinating
Speaker:research and architecture firm based here in Philadelphia. They
Speaker:are known for their environmentally conscious and sustainable
Speaker:design, ranging from projects like the United States
Speaker:Embassy in London. And what we
Speaker:do at KieranTimberlake is they have a full-time
Speaker:research group that is charged with asking and answering
Speaker:questions, oftentimes using new tools, tools that are new to
Speaker:architecture. So, I have my
Speaker:co-founder here at GrowFlux. I actually met at
Speaker:Kieran Timberlake. We hired him as an intern
Speaker:to build some wireless sensor networks, mostly using
Speaker:essentially like Zigbee-like wireless tech. And
Speaker:what we were doing is we were monitoring
Speaker:indoor air quality, we were monitoring indoor thermal comfort, we
Speaker:were monitoring the performance of
Speaker:facades, the thermal performance of facades. So we would actually sensor
Speaker:various layers of the building envelope. So the building envelope might
Speaker:consist of, you know, a half dozen different materials. And then
Speaker:measuring the performance over time of each layer
Speaker:on each face of the building can give us a picture into how
Speaker:heat is flowing into the building. So we were
Speaker:Basically putting certain density of sensors in buildings to
Speaker:the extent that, you know, we had to use IoT technologies to
Speaker:actually aggregate and transport all of the data. So we
Speaker:built completely new tools at Keurig Timberlake for monitoring
Speaker:buildings. How many in a typical building, just ballpark
Speaker:estimate, how many sensors are we talking about here? Well,
Speaker:so all commercial buildings have a multitude of sensors. They're
Speaker:mostly based— they're mostly inserted into the HVAC system.
Speaker:Okay. And they're mostly these very high-reliability, hardwired
Speaker:sensors that are part of these control loops. At Kirin
Speaker:Timberlake, what we were trying to do is
Speaker:answer questions that required a higher density of sensors that were
Speaker:more rapidly deployed in places where
Speaker:architects needed those sensors. So for example, putting a sensor in a
Speaker:ventilated curtain wall assembly, you know,
Speaker:it's, There's advanced facade systems out there. They don't often,
Speaker:they don't always have sensors in them, and assessing performance of these
Speaker:advanced facade systems often requires just quickly
Speaker:putting a sensor in it and looking at, you know, 9 months of data. So
Speaker:that's the kind of question asking we were engaging with these
Speaker:sensors. We even renovated an
Speaker:old bottling plant in the Northern Liberties
Speaker:neighborhood of Philadelphia. And we put, God, I think it was like 90
Speaker:sensors in just the roof. Oh, really? To understand,
Speaker:yeah, the, as well as, you know, the whole vertical space, it's
Speaker:like a 43-foot-high ceiling in the main office space. And so
Speaker:there we're trying to understand, you know, questions around thermal stratification.
Speaker:You know, we had a high-performance underfloor ventilation system, so we had a
Speaker:ton of sensors under there. So it was, yeah, we really did
Speaker:some outstanding work. in thermal performance and also
Speaker:thermal comfort monitoring. Yeah, it seems like it's one of
Speaker:those things that people take for granted when they're in the building and it's just
Speaker:perfectly climate controlled. And they don't realize all the stuff that's happening in the
Speaker:background to get it to that point and all the research that's gone
Speaker:into not only understanding what's happening inside the building,
Speaker:but to your point, even the multiple layers of the skin of the building,
Speaker:how that's being studied on a constant basis to see what the impacts of the
Speaker:external environments. And I can already see how this— we're starting to lead into
Speaker:these conversations about you know, greenhouses and indoor farming. But
Speaker:it's fascinating. It looks like, I mean, it sounds like you also in parallel
Speaker:with your passion for, you know, electronics
Speaker:and LEDs and IoT, the architecture thing is
Speaker:interesting too. Is that something that was also, you know, just
Speaker:obviously an interest for you and a passion for you, just aesthetics and
Speaker:design when it comes to architecture? Yeah, I mean, I've always been
Speaker:fascinated by the design profession. And
Speaker:when I had the opportunity to work at one of the top
Speaker:firms that happens to just be in Philly, I mean, I was applying to jobs
Speaker:in Belgium at the time. Oh yeah. Well, and you know, at the time my
Speaker:top pick for jobs was, uh, was, was Kearney Timberlake and I
Speaker:was lucky enough to spend 7 years there. That's
Speaker:great. Some of the most formative years of my career, I feel. Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, it's. One of the most fascinating things to me about
Speaker:that trajectory moving from architecture, and specifically that's
Speaker:architecture of high-performing buildings, to this space
Speaker:is I've been able to see how
Speaker:this industry is maturing and borrowing practices and concepts
Speaker:from the commercial building space. Yeah. So
Speaker:for example, you know, when I was working in architecture, this
Speaker:concept of measurement and verification. became
Speaker:a pretty big deal. The idea that basically you
Speaker:pay engineers to commission the systems within a building
Speaker:when construction is complete, and then you monitor that,
Speaker:and then you do continuous commissioning. So you come back and you look at the
Speaker:data and you say, what needs to be adjusted within the
Speaker:systems? So all of those practices were in, you know, the
Speaker:really formative stages when I was working in architecture.
Speaker:And we're starting to see some of these practices now
Speaker:transfer over into CEA. We're also starting to
Speaker:see some of the professionals
Speaker:transition into this space as well. So that's been really fascinating
Speaker:for us to watch. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know,
Speaker:in these conversations, we talk a lot about what's happening inside the building
Speaker:and all the advancements that are being made, you know, from the hydroponics, the robotics,
Speaker:to the LEDs, the automation,
Speaker:the climate control, but there seems to be a lot more that
Speaker:can also— that's available as opportunities for expansion and
Speaker:growth and innovation when it comes to thinking about the actual
Speaker:physical building itself, because that plays a large role in what
Speaker:happens and what you need to control. So, I think to your point, I
Speaker:think if you're clearer about what's happening outside and to the extent that you can
Speaker:control and monitor that, It feels like you're, you can do a better job
Speaker:inside the building once you understand those variables as well.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. That's often, I'm glad you mentioned that because it's often
Speaker:lost on a lot of people in this industry that, you know, buildings are very
Speaker:complex machines and a, a building envelope is very complicated.
Speaker:And, you know, even within architecture, there's, there's not enough
Speaker:people that really understand building envelopes really well. And so,
Speaker:you know, when you look at the typical project delivery process for
Speaker:a large indoor cannabis facility, a lot of
Speaker:designers essentially assume that as long as it's within the
Speaker:building envelope, it's, you know, those are controlled conditions. Well,
Speaker:at GrowFlux, we haven't been doing a lot of sensor work lately,
Speaker:you know, commercially, but internally we use a lot of sensors. We do a lot
Speaker:of sensing with our own technology. And, you know, we've seen
Speaker:how, you know, a building envelope can drive thermal gradients within a
Speaker:cultivation space. We're very familiar with that. And it's something
Speaker:that, you know, there's really not enough people that are looking at it and
Speaker:accounting for it in the design process. And there's also
Speaker:really just a severe lack of tools as well. So
Speaker:as we start to now move forward in the timeline, let's talk a little bit
Speaker:about how now all these passions and things you're working on are
Speaker:coming together. Now we're introducing another interest, which is—
Speaker:which may have been there all along, but horticulture, agriculture,
Speaker:CEA, you know, how did that start to, you know, come more on your radar?
Speaker:And maybe talk a little bit about your experience starting Glaze as well. Sure.
Speaker:Well, to be clear, I was involved in Glaze in the early days. I did
Speaker:not start Glaze. Okay. So let's see,
Speaker:around, around probably like 2015, I
Speaker:feel there's a pretty significant increase in the amount of
Speaker:innovation that was kind of happening in the indoor vertical farming
Speaker:space. Started seeing a little bit more activity around LEDs
Speaker:and greenhouses. And, prior to all of
Speaker:this, I had started and transitioned out
Speaker:of a company that was doing LED lighting control
Speaker:with wireless meshes for the purpose of managing human
Speaker:circadian rhythms. in hospitality, commercial
Speaker:spaces, mostly not exactly residential.
Speaker:So, we were looking to implement circadian lighting at scale
Speaker:and got some of the first patents in LED lighting
Speaker:control for human circadian lighting. Just for the
Speaker:benefit of the listener and just to explain the
Speaker:concept of circadian lighting and circadian rhythms and the
Speaker:importance of it, and I've been delving a little bit into that as well,
Speaker:from the self-biohacking perspective, but I'm just curious if you could just kind of give
Speaker:a little, you know, 30-second primer on why that's important. Sure.
Speaker:Yeah. So, you know, we've always known that light is a very
Speaker:significant driver for our own biological
Speaker:clocks. But in 2008, some researchers discovered
Speaker:some cells inside the eye that are called— it's a bit of a
Speaker:mouthful, but they're abbreviated ipRGCs. That's intrinsically
Speaker:photoreceptive retinal ganglion cells. What these cells
Speaker:do is they don't create images, they detect light and they
Speaker:detect specific wavelengths of light that is centered on the blue,
Speaker:specifically right around 464 nanometers. It does bleed off
Speaker:into violet and into green, but it's most sensitive at blue.
Speaker:And, what that does is it triggers a hormonal
Speaker:response that regulates the release
Speaker:of serotonin and melatonin that ultimately
Speaker:determine our biological clock throughout the day.
Speaker:And, study after study has shown increased
Speaker:productivity, better performance in test scores in
Speaker:classroom settings with the right amount of light. So, that
Speaker:is typically very well-lit classrooms, for example.
Speaker:Likewise, many studies have shown the
Speaker:relationship of lack of light and
Speaker:seasonal affective disorder. So then you have shift work
Speaker:dysfunction. So, you know, the, the science
Speaker:that actually tied this all together really
Speaker:started advancing in the early 2010s.
Speaker:And, you know, and today, you know, on any of your devices, you can
Speaker:set your schedule and your, your screens will adjust.
Speaker:But back when I had started this company called SumoLux,
Speaker:There was, you know, LED technology was in its infancy.
Speaker:People were selling $200 LED light bulbs. We were selling, didn't
Speaker:really have a price, but wireless meshed tunable
Speaker:lights back in the 2008, 2009 timeframe. Yeah. Well,
Speaker:thank you for that. I think that's helpful. So just to bring you back, you
Speaker:were talking about how you were working on the mesh lighting at the time and
Speaker:then seeing what was happening in the hospitality space as
Speaker:well. Yeah, so, you know, we had some
Speaker:experience over the years with lighting in,
Speaker:you know, in kind of like a hospitality setting and exactly what people need
Speaker:to actually commission these systems. And doing it at scale
Speaker:means that, you know, you're working with, you know,
Speaker:technicians that are removed from you, you know, by layers of
Speaker:businesses. So, you know, you have to start to
Speaker:look at the actual ease of use and the technology that you're using.
Speaker:And when we were building wireless sensor networks for
Speaker:the architecture space, it was whether you're using
Speaker:Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or Zigbee,
Speaker:still very high-touch installation process,
Speaker:making sure the devices communicate when you're putting them in, even when it's
Speaker:quote unquote plug and play, often was You know,
Speaker:not as straightforward as it really should have been. And so
Speaker:we really started to get an understanding of the level
Speaker:of reliability and how
Speaker:much these systems just have to have a completely
Speaker:streamlined installation process where the person installing
Speaker:the equipment and the person using the equipment doesn't need to understand how the wireless
Speaker:works. That's really, really important. So really started to figure that one out
Speaker:around the time I started GrowFlux.
Speaker:And what I did is I, early on, I built
Speaker:a relationship with a European company that
Speaker:really pioneered what I like to consider as like a next generation
Speaker:wireless mesh technology. And that is, that's, you know,
Speaker:it's 6LoWPAN built on top of 802.15.4. Some
Speaker:technical jargon there, but basically what it means is it's a
Speaker:flavor of wireless networking that has more in common
Speaker:with your standard Ethernet and Wi-Fi, everything gets
Speaker:an IP address, than it does with some proprietary protocol
Speaker:that has to talk to one device on site to
Speaker:translate its addresses. Okay. So Proflux, we
Speaker:started really investing in that wireless mesh technology as
Speaker:far back as 2016. It took a long time to get that off the
Speaker:ground and really build out that reliability, especially using
Speaker:sub-gigahertz frequencies to penetrate through, you know, concrete
Speaker:walls and things like that. Between the vertical farming space
Speaker:and the cannabis industry, we have dealt with
Speaker:everything from, you know, installing vertical farms in
Speaker:old historic buildings with like 2-foot-thick masonry walls
Speaker:to communicating through the concrete slabs of grow
Speaker:rooms where the walls of the rooms are divided with metal walls. So you
Speaker:have to go through concrete. And so, you know, all of this is
Speaker:really just to collapse the costs and
Speaker:complexity in commissioning automation systems on site using
Speaker:wireless technologies that just work really well. Yeah. Is there
Speaker:any, given all the experiences you've had and the examples you just
Speaker:mentioned, is there any environment now at this point that you
Speaker:you would say you wouldn't be able to install a communication system in?
Speaker:Well, I mean, everything has to be tested. So, you know, we don't go out
Speaker:and say we can just do anything. So for example, you know, our
Speaker:wireless access point, that's like our mesh
Speaker:manager that controls, you know, ProFlex mesh on
Speaker:site. It bridges that mesh connection to the cloud and
Speaker:it maintains network time for all of your lights and all of your lighting
Speaker:controllers. Right now, we tell people that around
Speaker:200 devices is a good number. And the reason for that
Speaker:is, well, there's a couple reasons. One is
Speaker:propagating a lighting schedule out to 200 devices
Speaker:takes a little bit of time. Because what we do with our wireless mesh is
Speaker:we trade speed for reliability. So
Speaker:in order for us to propagate a wireless, like wirelessly propagate a
Speaker:lighting schedule. It's not like megabytes of data. So
Speaker:we can go really slow and improve the range
Speaker:penetration, error tolerance, and
Speaker:ultimately the reliability. But the trade-off is that we don't get a lot of speed.
Speaker:So when we tell people that we want to limit it
Speaker:to 200 devices per access point, our access point is a
Speaker:$149 device. They're fairly affordable. That's really
Speaker:for a better user experience, but we're always improving that.
Speaker:So we're actually getting ready to up that to 500
Speaker:lights per access point, 1,000 lights per Pro access
Speaker:point. So we have 2 flavors of that access point. And then
Speaker:the other aspect of it is the software. So, you know, you can have
Speaker:the physical network is very capable,
Speaker:but if you're trying to load up 1,000 lights on the
Speaker:user interface in our app. You know, as we take on bigger and bigger projects,
Speaker:we're always having to fine-tune the app to display more and more
Speaker:stuff. Yeah. So it's been— we've been
Speaker:really careful to grow the size of the
Speaker:installations that we support carefully rather
Speaker:than taking on some really big ones up front and then having to deal with
Speaker:a lot of headache. You know, right now our sweet spot is
Speaker:Typically, like, we're often doing, you know, 1,200 to
Speaker:2,000 light installations with our universal dimmer that
Speaker:controls up to 50 lights. It's a plug-and-play lighting controller.
Speaker:We're starting to look at the 1,000 light installs on our single light controller. That's
Speaker:where we actually have 1,000 wireless devices on one
Speaker:mesh. Okay. So yeah, it's, you know, we're just kind of taking baby
Speaker:steps so that we always have a good customer
Speaker:experience. We have over Now nearly 200 farms globally using
Speaker:our lighting controls. And maintaining
Speaker:that reputation for reliability is really important to us. How much
Speaker:or how many of those installs are you being asked to also
Speaker:coordinate with what they already have existing? Because I imagine
Speaker:you do such a good job with controlling the lighting environment, but there's other
Speaker:factors at play there, right? There's probably automation happening, Depending how
Speaker:fancy the farm is, you know, with robotics, with, you know, irrigation,
Speaker:you know, and so at some point, you know, it's helpful monitoring the
Speaker:overall health of the farm. And how much are you being asked to make
Speaker:sure that everything plays well with what's already existing? Yeah,
Speaker:so we have a number of customers that are using our API to
Speaker:tie our lighting controls into other systems. We have a
Speaker:couple roadmap features underway that will
Speaker:streamline all of that. We often have a lot, we actually have a lot of
Speaker:customers that really just want the lighting system to be
Speaker:its own network where they can make the adjustments on the
Speaker:fly as needed. I'd say that's actually more common
Speaker:than you might imagine. There's a lot of talk of fully automating
Speaker:the entire facility and then using things
Speaker:like AI, but, you know, this industry still uses a lot of outdated tech.
Speaker:So what we're doing is we're supporting a lot of
Speaker:these initiatives by providing very robust
Speaker:API-addressable controls down to every light. So the
Speaker:businesses that are able to leverage that are doing it today.
Speaker:But increasingly what we're doing is we're also partnering with other companies
Speaker:through integrations. Okay. So that's where our API talks to the
Speaker:API of another company and you don't need to do any programming to make that
Speaker:happen. You just You know, click one thing. So that's all, you
Speaker:know, a bit of a, you know, that's kind of the shape of things to
Speaker:come in the next year or so. And I wonder also,
Speaker:I noticed on your site, if I read it correctly, that you made a conscious
Speaker:decision to not manufacture lights anymore, but actually
Speaker:provide the controls for the lighting. And can you
Speaker:talk a little bit about that decision as well? Yeah. So
Speaker:We started the company making tunable LED grow lights.
Speaker:We made a 600-watt top light with far-red
Speaker:LEDs and broad-spectrum white, blue, and deep red. And, you know,
Speaker:we get really great results. We did some really fascinating work with institutions like
Speaker:Cornell University. It is a really hard business to pull off.
Speaker:So, you know, we got that product fully launched, we got it UL certified, we
Speaker:got all the wet location ratings and such. And, Just
Speaker:maintaining that global supply chain for all
Speaker:of those components. There was over, I think there was like over 1,200 parts
Speaker:in our light. And then just buying LEDs alone is,
Speaker:it's a hypercompetitive space. So
Speaker:meanwhile, when we were making the lights, you know, we were putting our wireless mesh
Speaker:in, we were starting to kick off some sensor integration projects.
Speaker:We had just launched the GrovLux app. for iOS and Android.
Speaker:And other lighting manufacturers were asking to license our wireless.
Speaker:We had 3 lighting brands
Speaker:ask to buy us in the really early days, and they made it clear
Speaker:that they were going to axe the lights and just stick with the IoT.
Speaker:And so we started the kind of— it actually started out as a
Speaker:joke internally. Hey, what if we made a dimmer that
Speaker:controls our competitors' lights? And then, you know,
Speaker:as the cost to maintain the supply chain and buy
Speaker:more LEDs many months in advance, as those
Speaker:costs started mounting and we're competing with like, I mean, we were
Speaker:like competing with like Philips. No easy
Speaker:task there. You just couldn't sustain that as a startup. So we just,
Speaker:so the internal joke, hey, what if we made a dimmer that controls our
Speaker:competitors' lights? That became the
Speaker:Well, that was a smart decision, and I think almost that out-of-the-box
Speaker:thinking, sort of like what Google does with their Skunk Works, I imagine, just
Speaker:like there's no idea that's too silly to put out there. And it
Speaker:seemed like it was very prescient because it was the right decision
Speaker:to make. Probably not an easy one to make too, but I think it was
Speaker:the right one at the time. Oh no, it felt good.
Speaker:Yeah. So how, you know, if you were to
Speaker:describe like an ideal client for GrowFlux, who would that be?
Speaker:Well, we work with a couple different types of customers because,
Speaker:you know, on the one hand, we spend a lot of time serving
Speaker:our lighting manufacturer customers who provide
Speaker:our wireless controls alongside their lights. On the other hand,
Speaker:we also work more directly with the growers. So
Speaker:that is, you know, providing plug-and-play controls for, often for
Speaker:existing systems or new systems that they're separately procuring. So there's kind
Speaker:of two, two different customer bases for us. Is
Speaker:Growflux your first stint as CEO? Yeah. I mean,
Speaker:I previously founded another company, but then we didn't really get it far along enough
Speaker:to say that it was, you know, took that to its,
Speaker:you know, its full lifecycle. Yeah. And how many employees now? Right now
Speaker:we're a team of 3. We're hiring now. That definitely sounds like you're in
Speaker:a growth stage. What's been the most
Speaker:I guess you would call them learning experiences as you've developed in
Speaker:the role as CEO? Yeah, I would say one of the
Speaker:really interesting things I've learned over the last couple of years in this
Speaker:space is a lot of people
Speaker:that are in a high-level decision-making role in this
Speaker:industry, if they don't have a lot of skin in the
Speaker:game, there's a propensity to just take the easy path
Speaker:and get the sale and show the sales numbers. Yeah. And,
Speaker:you know, we have seen how that plays out over the long term
Speaker:when you're ultimately sacrificing reliability
Speaker:or customer experience. And, you know,
Speaker:we've made incredible investments in
Speaker:really, really difficult technology that takes years to get right.
Speaker:And it's only coming to fruition in the last year or so.
Speaker:So to see that play out and then on the other side of it,
Speaker:watch companies get run into the ground by the
Speaker:CEO that the PE guys put in place is just
Speaker:really fascinating to watch because we're
Speaker:often working pretty closely with the executives at
Speaker:some of these companies. And I'm not only talking about lighting companies.
Speaker:Talking about other tech companies in the vertical farming and
Speaker:CEA space. Who do you look to for inspiration
Speaker:when it comes to leadership? Yeah, I mean, I think for me,
Speaker:who I look to for inspiration is really other founders
Speaker:because it is a really unique circumstance when your
Speaker:passion project for many years is your livelihood and is
Speaker:just your entire existence, really. So yeah, there's,
Speaker:uh, I have a number of other founder friends that I'm very
Speaker:close to. And, you know, I think without that
Speaker:network, I would be much more in the dark for sure. Yeah, it's something to
Speaker:be said, you know, as a fellow business owner and entrepreneur who's tried
Speaker:many things that have failed. And then I, you know, before
Speaker:getting to the, you know, some of the things that have been working on my
Speaker:end, unless you have a close group of friends whose
Speaker:opinion you trust, who can tell you, you know, what something really
Speaker:is like without, you know, someone who just wants to tell you what they think
Speaker:you need to hear. I think that's really important to keep that network of that
Speaker:sounding board, you know, really active 'cause it helps keep you sane. 'Cause
Speaker:otherwise if you tried to just do it all yourself, I think it's, you'd go
Speaker:a little crazy. So I'm wondering now as you're
Speaker:continuing to grow and expand in this space, what
Speaker:is the future of specifically, you know, controls
Speaker:in lighting? Like what do you see as in terms of innovation? Do you
Speaker:want to— do you want GrowFlux to be part of that innovation? Or
Speaker:are you seeing what's happening and just waiting to see how some of those spaces
Speaker:mature before you step into them? Sure. Yeah. So only a few years
Speaker:ago, you know, people looked at cloud technology in this
Speaker:space as something to be suspicious of.
Speaker:But today, most people want remote
Speaker:management of their systems. They want the convenience of cloud
Speaker:connectivity. So that's been a pretty significant
Speaker:shift over a space of only really about 4 years.
Speaker:And so, you know, this industry today is really
Speaker:just embracing cloud technologies, whereas other industries are
Speaker:much further along. So, you know, I think what we're going to see
Speaker:in the coming years is a true ecosystem of companies
Speaker:that can leverage new technologies like artificial
Speaker:intelligence and machine learning at scale. Yeah. With market
Speaker:leaders. And what we're starting to see is
Speaker:that companies that are the best in
Speaker:class at their respective technology are starting to
Speaker:embrace newer technologies and play together
Speaker:within these ecosystems. In other industries, we see
Speaker:very rich ecosystems of tech companies that work
Speaker:together, and they actually even create app ecosystems. between
Speaker:themselves. And so I think a lot of those types of integrations are coming to
Speaker:the space. So we have an inside look into, you know, what a
Speaker:lot of companies are considering. So I'm really excited about that. Are you
Speaker:familiar with the website Zapier? Vaguely, yes. Yeah, so basically it helps
Speaker:connect like, you know, tools, and now it's just probably hundreds or thousands of
Speaker:integrations you can make. I'm wondering if there's a Zapier for the
Speaker:agtech space when you talk about APIs and the ability to, you know, have some
Speaker:of these technologies speak to each other in an intelligent way. And I'm
Speaker:wondering, just thinking out loud, if there's an opportunity for something like that. Yeah, there's
Speaker:actually a company, I forget the name of the company, they just raised a pile
Speaker:of cash a couple months back, essentially doing that.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, there's going to be a lot of opportunity for those types of
Speaker:plays for sure. For agriculture, the thing is, what works
Speaker:in, you know, other industries doesn't always
Speaker:work in agriculture. The whole buying criteria is totally different. The
Speaker:sales cycle is different. Where people buy is different. So it's
Speaker:going to take on its own very unique shape in
Speaker:this space, but it's for sure, it's definitely coming. So what's
Speaker:a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently? Yeah, we ask ourselves a
Speaker:lot of tough questions around product roadmap
Speaker:and, you know, planning out resources. There's so many
Speaker:products and features that we and our customers want to
Speaker:roll out, but we're often having to straddle
Speaker:maintaining all the systems and customer experience and reliability and
Speaker:availability of our products with new product development. So
Speaker:that's often something that's really tough. 2021 was a tough year
Speaker:supply chain-wise, so we're just getting out
Speaker:from under that. Now able to
Speaker:focus more on that new product development. But yeah, we've been asked a lot
Speaker:of tough questions on that front over the last year or so. Can you see
Speaker:the silver lining in 2021 in so much as it helped
Speaker:you rethink things regarding your supply chain that
Speaker:may not have been top of mind at that time for you? Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:I mean, reinvented our entire supply chain. We've
Speaker:redeveloped a lot of the internal components of our products to
Speaker:eliminate sole-source components and things like that.
Speaker:We've changed how we manufacture our products. It's, yeah, it's been,
Speaker:it can, 2021 completely upended how we make our products. That's
Speaker:great. I'm curious, as you attend these
Speaker:conferences, if you find there's, it's important to
Speaker:maintain and develop relationships with not only
Speaker:possible partners and customers in the space, but even someone that may be
Speaker:considered a you know, a competitor or someone who does something
Speaker:in similar space? It feels like it's, you know, from these conversations— I've been
Speaker:doing the show for almost 2 years now, and just, it's still small, you know.
Speaker:From the out— you know, internally it seems like, you know, there's a lot going
Speaker:on, but from the external viewpoint, you know, it's still a, you know, a growing
Speaker:industry as well. So I'm wondering how you think about
Speaker:building, nurturing, cultivating those relationships. Yeah, I mean, we
Speaker:build relationships with A lot of even customers that have
Speaker:competing products to us, you know, we kind of came from the really early
Speaker:days of the vertical farming industry when a lot of companies
Speaker:were, you know, very secretive. And to be honest, like,
Speaker:the most secretive ones that just wouldn't really discuss
Speaker:anything, well, all those guys are gone. So,
Speaker:you know, if you're really good at what you do, the thing that you do
Speaker:should be really hard to replicate and really hard to pull off.
Speaker:And that's a lot of what we do. So
Speaker:we're very open about discussing how our
Speaker:technology works, where we're going. And
Speaker:yeah, and what we found is that it's only really benefited us because
Speaker:what any one particular company might be working on today
Speaker:might get put on the shelf tomorrow, and they may have to
Speaker:reach for a solution that's much closer. to deployment. And
Speaker:with that in mind, that's actually how we've done a lot of
Speaker:business is we've been quite open
Speaker:compared to other companies about our timeline and our roadmap.
Speaker:And that's gotten us into some really, really interesting projects. That's good. Yeah, keeping
Speaker:that open mind to all sorts of partnerships and even some
Speaker:that you may not be able to predict that could be coming your way, just
Speaker:sort of having that mindset, I think, is helpful. Yeah, yeah. And I mean,
Speaker:back when we made lights, we still, you know,
Speaker:were really, you know, cognizant about, you know, keeping
Speaker:really good relationships with the other lighting manufacturers because, like, you
Speaker:know, you never know if you're going to get rolled up with one of them.
Speaker:So, you know, we were, you know, we were very
Speaker:cognizant of that back when we made lights. And then all of those
Speaker:people became our customers. So we already knew that.
Speaker:You know, like we, it's, you know, we, yeah. So.
Speaker:And, uh, as we get towards the, this, the latter
Speaker:part of the year, any other conferences on your radar? Let's see. Yeah.
Speaker:So Resilient Harvests is coming up. Okay. So we're looking forward to
Speaker:that one. And, uh, coming off of the weekend,
Speaker:it's like, yeah. And before this, I was right on top of our
Speaker:travel schedule and now I'm, I'm sorry. Yeah. I've done 3 trips
Speaker:in the past. 3 weeks. I can't feel you. Yeah, we have a
Speaker:couple events coming up on our travel schedule. A couple of them are cannabis trade
Speaker:shows. We have Resilient Harvest coming up. Okay, end of October,
Speaker:early November. And, uh, of course in the
Speaker:cannabis space there's MJ BizCon, which is always a very
Speaker:busy one for us. Okay, is it one of the bigger ones? MJ BizCon?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. So for us it is because, you know, we're typically
Speaker:exhibiting in a half dozen booths. So we have lighting
Speaker:manufacturers, distributors showing off our products in their booths.
Speaker:So we're at the show to support them, but then also
Speaker:to, you know, just maintain relationships with all the other clients as
Speaker:well. So it is one of those shows where we actually don't get a booth.
Speaker:Okay. Because it's just like, there's just a lot of noise to cut through.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm sure. So as we wrap up, I want to thank you for
Speaker:taking the time to share the story. A lot of it was really fascinating for
Speaker:me, just learning Getting a bit of 101 on lighting
Speaker:and its impact on not only circadian rhythms, but also just
Speaker:the ability to which you can control it, I think, is something that surprises a
Speaker:lot of people. And it's been fascinating to see how just that
Speaker:early interest, that early tinkering, when you think about the trajectory of your
Speaker:career and the decisions you've made, how they've led to you doing now
Speaker:something that seems to be a mix of all your passions together. So, you
Speaker:know, I— Thank you. It's really inspiring to hear your story, and I appreciate you
Speaker:sharing it. Sure. Yeah, thank you for your time. Given the, the
Speaker:audience here, you know, and then you've seen that some of your peers are, are
Speaker:folks that have not only been guests on there but also listened to the show,
Speaker:is there an ask that you have for this specific audience?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I, I would say yes, there is.
Speaker:And that is, you know, we think a lot about, you know,
Speaker:taking practices from other industries that have had to
Speaker:adapt. And what we look to do is we look
Speaker:to borrow successful strategies from
Speaker:adjacent industries, whether it's factory automation
Speaker:or pharma packaging and
Speaker:storage, for example. And so when you look
Speaker:at how these systems come together, it's often easier to
Speaker:take a successful playbook from an adjacent industry and see what lessons,
Speaker:not exactly like replicate it, but at least see which lessons
Speaker:you can learn there. And that's something that
Speaker:we encourage a lot of our partners and customers to think about.
Speaker:And ultimately, this industry has
Speaker:so much growth ahead of it. And I
Speaker:really feel in the coming years and decades that
Speaker:we are going to have to hyperscale and we have to
Speaker:learn from other industries. So definitely something
Speaker:that, that I just remembered from your childhood. I'd be remiss if I
Speaker:didn't ask how many times you've run up the Rocky stairs. As a
Speaker:Philadelphian, I, I always kind of thought it was a little cheesy, the whole— yeah,
Speaker:yeah, yeah, yeah, Rocky thing. Yeah, honestly, I don't think I've
Speaker:ever done it. I mean, I've been on the stairs many times. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker:it's not. It's funny because I I think we went with, uh, my ex-wife to
Speaker:the Dalí exhibit at the museum, and I was like, oh man. And like, you
Speaker:know, as a child growing up watching that movie, I was like, yeah, you
Speaker:feel the need to do it. So, well, I don't think I've ever done
Speaker:it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's one of those things. Like, I grew up in
Speaker:New York, it's like people ask me, how many times you been to like the
Speaker:Statue of Liberty or like the Empire State Building? I'm just like,
Speaker:uh, once. Yeah, they moved
Speaker:that statue, uh, Oh, they did? Oh, okay.
Speaker:Years ago when that happened. Okay. It drove a lot of people nuts.
Speaker:Sure. Well, thanks again, Eric. I really had a fun time with this conversation. Uh,
Speaker:growflux.com for people to learn more. Any other sites, uh, you want to direct
Speaker:people to, to connect with you or the company? Yeah, no, growflux.com is
Speaker:where you can reach us for sure. Okay. I appreciate it again. I really enjoyed
Speaker:this conversation. Yeah. Thanks for your time. It was fun. Thanks again to
Speaker:Eric for coming on the show and sharing his stories. As always, full show notes
Speaker:available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com. I don't take their time
Speaker:lightly. These folks are doing some really important work in this field,
Speaker:and I'm always honored when they can find an hour to spend with me so
Speaker:I could dig in and tell their stories, because it's what really— what lights me
Speaker:up and really what makes this show so special for me and for you, the
Speaker:listener. If you'll be attending the Global Produce and Floral Show in Orlando,
Speaker:Florida this October 27th through 29th, then please
Speaker:visit the NetLed booth at the Future Tech Pavilion. The team would love to
Speaker:meet you. Thanks to our season 6 title sponsor, Cultivated. If you're looking into a
Speaker:vertical farm and don't know where to start or which technology would suit your needs,
Speaker:reach out to them today. And best of all, as always, their service is free
Speaker:because they work on behalf of their partners. Learn more at cultivated.com,
Speaker:and that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com. Leave out
Speaker:that last E. Podcast production marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn
Speaker:more at fullcast.co. As a reminder, if you're enjoying the show, leave us a
Speaker:rating and a review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp. We'll be sure to
Speaker:read those out on future episodes. Tune in next week for my
Speaker:conversation with Keenan Pinto of Nordetect.
Speaker:We connected at the Indoor AgTech NYC conference,
Speaker:and another fascinating in-depth conversation with an up-and-coming
Speaker:company you should be keeping an eye out for in this space. Until we meet
Speaker:again, here's to your health. Thanks for listening. To read the full
Speaker:show notes for this episode, which includes any links mentioned in the
Speaker:episode, as well as a full show transcription, visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. There, you can sign
Speaker:up for our email list to be notified when new episodes are published.
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