You are going to love this episode! I know I did.

I’m joined by Gabrielle Dolan, global storytelling expert and author of Story Intelligence: The Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI. Gabrielle has spent more than two decades helping leaders communicate with more clarity, connection, and trust through real stories.

We talked about why authentic storytelling matters even more now, especially as AI makes it easier than ever to create polished content quickly. Gabrielle shared what she learned from comparing human-written stories with AI-generated ones, and why authenticity is still the piece people feel when it is missing. This is fully explained with amazing story examples in her book also.

What stood out for me most was Gabrielle’s reminder that storytelling is not reserved for polished speakers or professional writers. We all have stories. The challenge is learning how to find them, shape them, and connect them to the message we want to share. She also gave practical guidance for using AI wisely as a tool to support communication without letting it replace our real voice.

This conversation is full of insight for leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone who wants to build stronger relationships in business through more honest and human communication.

Key Takeaways

• Authentic stories build trust faster than polished talking points - In a time when people are questioning what is real, genuine stories help us connect in a way that feels human and believable.
• AI can support storytelling, but it cannot replace authenticity - Gabrielle explains that AI may create clear content, but it often misses the emotional truth and specificity that make a story feel real.
• Personal stories are often the most powerful in business - Stories from life outside work can create stronger connection, deepen relationships, and bring values to life in a memorable way.
• Most people already have stories. They just need help finding them - Gabrielle’s process starts with the message, then works backward to uncover moments that reflect it.
• Storytelling strengthens communication and relationships at the same time - good story does more than share information. It helps people understand who we are and what we stand for.

You can reach Gabrielle at:

Her website: gabrielledolan.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/gabrielledolan

I do highly recommend her book also – which you can find on Amazon and anywhere books are sold.

In appreciation for being here, I have some gifts for you:

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by checking this presentation page - you won’t regret it.

AND … Don’t forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and be eligible for my complimentary LinkedIn profile audit – I do one each month for a lucky listener!

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http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

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The cup. Hello, everyone. I'm very excited today

that we're going to be talking about something that's become

more important than ever in business, communication,

authentic storytelling, with trust and an all time low and

with AI now able to generate content in seconds. Many leaders

and entrepreneurs are asking an important question, how do we

stay efficient with these powerful tools without losing

our authentic voice? Well, my guest today is a global expert

in business storytelling and the author of her eighth book, her

newest book, which is called Story intelligence, the craft of

authentic storytelling made smarter with AI, and it's

getting rave reviews in her home country of Australia, and I'm

sure that's going to gather steam to North America as well.

Gabrielle Dolan teaches leaders how to communicate with clarity,

connect emotionally and build trust through real stories. In

this conversation, we're going to look at why authentic stories

matter more than ever in the age of AI, and how each of us can

use storytelling to strengthen our relationships in business.

So first of all, welcome, welcome. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm very excited to be talking to

you about all things storytelling.

Well, I have to tell you your your email that

you sent to me, introducing yourself. You had me at what was

the what was the subject line? How to be like storytelling. I

loved it. It was like, Okay, I gotta read more. So she was I

could tell she had a sense of humor. I could tell that you had

a sense of humor and that you in the rest of the email that you

were passionate about what you do, so I was really glad to be

able to connect with you. So Gabrielle, you've spent many

years helping leaders use storytelling in business. What

first made you realize how powerful stories, how powerful

stories could be in professional communication. Let's start back

there.

Yeah. So that sort of almost takes me back

about 25 years ago. So I was working in corporate Australia.

I was working at one of Australia's largest banks, and I

was in senior management role, so I led a team, but also, in

the last couple of years, I was in change management role, so

leading, you know, digital transformation, not that we

called it digital transformation back then. I think we just

called it technical change. But it was minimal, and it was mini

compared, yeah, exactly, exactly. And it took so, so, so

long, so much longer it was in. It was in that capacity of

change management. So, you know, you think of the job you're

about to implement all these changes, you go out to the

business unit and you've got to explain why the change is good.

And of course, every business unit doesn't want the change to

come because it's such a disruption. What I started to

notice is when I shared a story that addressed some of their

concerns, they seem to get the message better, and it's they

seem to, sort of their defenses went down a bit. Now it wasn't a

silver magical bullet, but I remember thinking, I'm thinking

this storytelling business. And then I also started to notice,

like I would see speak, people speak, and the really, really

great presenters, what they were doing was sharing stories and

and then I started to notice that some of the great leaders

that I saw, they were sharing stories. So because I had had a

lot of experience in designing and actually delivering

leadership programs, I had done that previously, I remember

thinking, I think storytelling is a skill. I think it's an

absolute leadership skill, it's a communication skill, it's an

influencing skill. I think I'm going to teach people how to do

it.

Now it was like, it was moment for you.

Well, it was a bit of a it was a bit of a

sliding doors. Couple of years at that moment, it was sort of

like, Yeah, I think this works. And then I noticed stories. I

think it worked. But the real a heart moment, like the moment I

decided, was I had been applying for roles at the bank. They were

going through, you know, one of their many restructures, and I

applied for the Global Head of learning, and I didn't get the

job. And it was in that moment, and I still remember the person

that that told me I didn't get the job I had worked with her.

And she said, What do you think you're going to do? And I went,

I think it's time to go. I think it's time to go. And I sort of

not, not in that moment. I came up with a big business plan, but

I thought, I'm going to give I truly believe storytelling is a

skill. It's a it's like I said, communication, leadership, yeah,

and I think I could teach people how to do it. Now, at the time,

our children were two and five, and part of me thought, I'm just

going to give this a go. I'm going to see if this. This is a

valid job to teach people storytelling. And if it's not,

and if it doesn't take off, I would just, I'll be home with

the kids for a while, and I'll just come back and get another

job when the time's right, so I'll figure it out. And it'd be

fair to say, 21 years later, with storytelling, you know,

everyone's talking about storytelling. The Wall Street

Journal wrote a article a few months ago that story, the term

storyteller is the fastest growing job title, which, which,

both part of me says, See, I told you, that's part of me.

Part of me is, I told you. But then part of me thinks, Oh,

please don't outsource storytelling across your

organization to one department that that concerns me about that

concept. But, yeah, it's, it'd be fair to say it worked out.

Yes, it did.

So your new, your new book, introduces this

concept of story intelligence. How do you define that term, and

why do you believe it's such an important skill today?

Yeah, so I am. This is the eighth book I've

written on, like, storytelling and real communication. And my

previous book that I wrote about four years ago, I truly believe

Janice that that would be the last book I would write on

storytelling. I was like, you know, there's clearly, there's

only so much stuff you can write on storytelling, right? But it

was probably about 18 months ago I would be running, you know,

storytelling workshops, which I do, and I would cons. I would

increasingly get people ask me, will AI replace storytelling?

And the fact that people were even asking that question

horrified me. It was like, no, and then I would be going, not

only will it not replace it, but our authentic stories are needed

now more than ever. And then, and then, then I had people ask

me, Can you use AI to help with your stories? And my initial

response was, No, no, it's not that's, that's not, not

happening on my watch type thing. And then I thought, well,

you know, if you, if you're the sort of so called expert on

this, you better, like, at least experiment with it. And I was, I

was disturbingly surprised how good AI was with stories, but it

was missing something and, and I go into that in the book, but

the premise of the book then so therefore, the premise of the

book is in a world of AI generated content. There's so

much AI generated content, and we're also in a world of

distrust as well, that our authentic stories are needed now

more than ever. But AI used wisely, wisely being the key

word here, used wisely. AI can be your creative partner when it

comes to storytelling. But again, it's used wisely. And we

might

go into that. Yeah, we will. We will go into

that, but, but the thing that just on a high level here, the

thing that I notice is especially on social media,

because they're destroying the stuff that they put out there,

especially I see on Facebook and sometimes on on Instagram, you

have to be very discerning and really start to say, is this

real or is it not Real? Because some of them are really good,

but this of them are much more, you know, you've got this voice

that is very robotic, and, you know, that's not a real voice.

But I think you really have to be careful. And that's the part

that's driving everyone crazy, too, is like, Yeah,

real, you know, yeah. And so it's, it's so the

latest, I don't know if you follow the Edelman report, they

do a report on trust every year. They've been doing it for 20

years, and this is this last year was their 20th year, and

the trust is at its lowest. So they, they do trust in, you

know, across organizations, across media and employees,

right? So trust is that it's all time lowest, but so you've got

that, and then you've got the combination of AI generated

content, now, whether it be deep fake videos or just content like

someone's story, but we're now constantly saying, is that true?

Like, no, I find myself even watching video. I saw a video

the other day of an elephant rescuing a tiger by the tiger

jumping up on his back. And part of me is going, is that AI? And

I could not. And so for the life of me, now, I don't know whether

that was true or not. And then you read the comments, and half

the comments ago, oh, my God, that's so lovely. And ai, ai,

don't know. So we are, we are now dealing with everything we

consume. We have got this cynical lens over it, rightly

so, and maybe not cynical, but maybe just judging. Is this true

or not? Well, I think we have to, yeah, like we have to and

like, I was talking to someone the other day, like in our

generation, like our. Parents, you know, they got their news

from, like, the, probably the one newspaper they read and the

one news channel they watched it at six o'clock at night. And

that, that was it, and, and that was gospel to them. I was the

movies, yeah, yeah, exactly. They'd have a little bit of,

yeah, but, but that was, you know, and sometimes you they

would go, but it was in, it was in the Herald, so it's true, or

I saw it on the news, so it is true. Now, of course, we can't,

we can't have that certainty on anything. So we are just we do.

There is a judgment over everything. So to me and people,

go, when I'm speaking to individuals, I go, you can't

control what other people do. If people are putting out fake

stuff out there, you can't control that, but you can

certainly control what you put out. And, yeah, and the one

thing I do is I teach, you know, teach people storytelling,

obviously, but I always say it's so much more powerful. It's

easier to find your own stories than to make up stories, and

it's so much more powerful. So, yeah, we could definitely use

AI. I'm not saying don't use AI. I use AI, but we've got to do it

wisely.

So I know myself included, when I do play around

with that. And I am going to ask you about the different where is

it? Just a minute, the difference so,

and you asked me about my definition of

storytelling, chance. So, like, what? Actually, sorry. Okay, so

I, I love the title of the book, story intelligence. It sort of

reminds me of emotional intelligence. But there's no

definition of what story intelligence means. So, you

know, so the definition I wrote, it's a bit I've told I've had

people say to me, it's too long. It's like, whatever. I don't

care you. When you make up your you, when you make up your own

definition, you make it shorter. But like, you know, this is

mine, and it's the ability to purposefully and skillfully use

authentic storytelling to communicate with clarity and to

connect, engage, and inspire. And I think, I think the main

So, yeah, if you want to put it in a nutshell, it's how you use

it really skillfully and with purpose. So you you're

communicating much more, you know, in a much more effective

way. That's not only clear, helps people understand the

message, but actually engages them, and, you know, connects

with them. And it is an, you say it's a skill, I

think it's an art too. I really do. I think it's an art.

Yeah, yeah, there is, there's, you know, I

often talk about the art and science of storytelling, and

part, part of the art is sort of playing around with it a bit.

It's sort of like, it's like, sometimes when you tell a joke,

like a, you know, you use comedians, you can tell a joke,

and you've thought, I've just, I've told it exactly the same

way, but why didn't people laugh this time? And because it that's

the art bit. It's exactly, it's one or two words. It can be in

the

delivery or that. Well, let's talk about, let's

talk about this. And because I think, I think it's interesting.

And I read this part in your book that I I thought was

fascinating. You did some research where you compared

stories written by humans and stories generated by AI. And I

want to know a little bit about that. I want my audience to know

a bit about that, and what you discovered about how people

responded to them, because I think you had stories, one you'd

written and two were AI generated, yeah, yeah.

So when I, when I first started to experiment

with, you know, after people have kept asking me, Can you use

AI to help with your stories? I started to experiment. And I

would get onto chat GPT or Claude and go, I want a story in

the first person around innovation. Can you write one

and it would write it. And this is when I was like. I was like,

Oh, my God, that's good. It's like, and it terrified me that

it was, but it was, it was good, yeah, but it was missing

something. And of course, what it was missing was authenticity.

And you know, when you sort of go, that just doesn't seem

right, so that that's what it was missing, and it doesn't seem

real, because it's not real, right? So stop there for a

second.

So did it? Did it? Was it missing a point of

view that a human would give or was were the facts not there? It

was

a bit of both. So no, probably nothing to do

with the facts. Sometimes it was a bit of that doesn't make

sense, so like it wasn't right. But then sometimes it was just,

you sort of go, I don't think that would happen like that. So

there was a big questioning of how it happened. And then, you

know, there was, it was missing, there was feeling, there wasn't

like real much feeling in there. So, so I decided, as part of

writing the book to put my hypothesis to the test. And my

hypothesis was, stories are okay. Ai generator, stories are

okay, but they're they're not as good as your own story. So what

I did for the book, I chose six different topics. So you know

courage, you know innovation. Whatever. And I wrote six

stories on each of them. And I got chat GPT to write six, and

chord to write six. And I, and I used a prompt that would make

sure, and, yeah, you know, it would, you know, around about

300 words. So I gave them some guidance, yeah, then I got

people to read that. So there was 18 stories in total. I got

people to read these stories and rate them, and I I got them to

write on different things, you know, like engage, you know, how

memorable, how clear the story was. Did it feel real? So I got

them to rate it. They had no idea

blind tests, right? It was a blind test.

Not only did they have no idea which stories

were real and which were AI generated. They assumed they

were all real. There was no mention that these were AI

generated.

Oh, okay, you just had

and so, yeah, just the winner. And what? What

it came back is that, well, first of all, four out of the

six stories, my stories, were rated much higher than the AI

ones. In one instance, they were rated equal, which was like, oh,

that's and then in one instance, AI story was rated better than

mine. And when I did look at my story, I went, I did sort of

thing I was probably, probably not my finest work. But the

really interesting thing which sort of proved my hypothesis in

my rating, the rating around clarity and the rating around

authenticity were very much aligned. They were pretty much

equal. For the all the AI generated stories, the rating on

clarity was high, but on authenticity it was really low.

So there was a really big gap between does this story make

sense? It's like people going, yeah, it sort of makes sense.

Does it feel real? No. So that and that, and that was my

hypothesis, that they're okay stories that they sort of could

be used to get the message across. But there's something

missing, and what's missing is authenticity.

So we were talking about, I forgot what my

premise was about. But when you say that, yeah, so the the UN,

the not uneducated, but the person that's that's not really

into this, into the differences, or that, you know, is it real,

or isn't it real, they would accept it more readily than

someone who's starting to be discerning,

yeah, and so they would accept it. And so

even I, you know, I spoke to a few of the people that provided

feedback, and again, when I told them they were AI, and some of

the feedback, or a lot of the feedback got, was these,

stories, and these were the AI ones. They just sounded cliche.

They just sounded so cliche. And so it was sort of, yeah, I get

the message, but cliche. I've heard it all before. There was

nothing specific. So that's, that's, again, the danger is,

it's just, and you know, this is the danger. If you use AI to

generate your stories, you're sounding cliche, which means

you're sounding boring. That's, that's just a you know. Okay, so

let me just ask you this from the AI

perspective, when you you did them in those three different

tools or platforms, did you were you more engrossed in one

platform and the other? Or did you have, did it? Did each of

those platforms have your avatar or your background, or your all

that stuff?

Or, no, no, they didn't. They didn't. So I

went, I went like almost blank cab. So I use chat, I use chat

GPT and I use chord as the two AI platforms. So it wasn't, I

wasn't. And when I mean, I've got a paid version of chat, GP

to values, but I use the free version with a clean slate, so

it wasn't using anything from me.

So would that difference? Do you think?

So yes, so it would definitely. So you can

say, Okay, well, if you've got a paid one, it can start to learn

about you. It can start to and it will, it will. That will

definitely make a difference. So in the book, in the book I talk

about, you know, the how you can use AI, you can use AI to help

find your stories. So, you know, I want to start, I need to find

a story around innovation. Can you ask me questions that will

draw out experiences that I've had in innovation, right? So you

get

that, but sometimes, if I ask it to help

me write something, it'll say, it will say, I'll write this in

your voice, Janice, with you know, emphasis on relationship

building or whatever, like, yeah. So it knows me well enough

to do that, so I sort of maybe I take too much credit or give it

too much credit that it does, but then I have to start being

more discerning myself. I've used that word a lot, but that

seems to be the word that, no, no, it's true.

So so the more if you're using a paid version

and it gets to know you, yeah, it will create the story that's

going to sound more and more like you. Yeah. It absolutely

and as it gets better and better and better, that that will

definitely be the case. Yeah, it's still, it's still, though,

puts in stuff that's not you. And so my thing is, once, once

you get that AI stuff, first of all, it still makes up stuff. So

you read, you read the story, and then it might be, it might

have said, this happened, and when that's when you've got to

go. And it is discerning. That's absolutely a great description.

You got to go. That didn't happen that way. But this

happened, it happened this way. Okay, we'll say it that way. And

then also, I recommend you say, you say it out loud, because if

there's words in there, you know, to give you an example.

This just happened a few weeks ago, and I think I was using my

paid version. I, you know, I was, I think I was applying to

go on a podcast, and I had to fill out this form, and it said,

you know, just give me two paragraphs on what you do. So I,

you know, I said, I teach people how to communicate more

effectively through authentic stories. And I did some other

stuff, and I often put it through chat GBT, mainly as an

edit, like a, you know, I'm terrible at grammar and stuff

like, that's just so mainly, is a bit of an edit. But it came

back and it said something like, I teach people to communicate

authentically through stories that bridge the gap between

impact and trust. It was like, I didn't even know what that

means. Yeah, that the danger, and this is the real danger, is

people go, Oh, that sounds good. Exactly like that. That sounds

really good, you know. And then all of a sudden they're going,

Yeah, I use stories to bridge the gap between impact and

trust, and you know, then all of a sudden it's their tagline. It

was like, it doesn't even, did have those words ever come out

of your mouth like that? Then the answer is no. So you just

got to go. Don't have to push Yeah. You have to Yeah. So, so

using AI in that way can help you be really efficient when it

comes to creating stories and creating content, whether it's

stories or not, yeah, but you don't want to. You still want it

to be effective. And I say Don't, don't lose effectiveness

over efficiency. And if we're just taking what AI gives us,

it's starting to sound like everyone else, right?

And even even the the patterning of the Yeah,

yeah. It's always Yeah. And I like what you said, though about

reading it out loud. Because when I read it out loud, I start

to say it in my vernacular, which sometimes isn't, and

that's when I say, No, no, I wouldn't say it that way, so

I'll change it, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's fascinating

some people say, and I've said this, I'm not a storyteller. I

have trouble finding stories. What do you say to professionals

who believe they simply don't have stories to share? Yeah?

So first of all, as human beings, we are

storytellers. That's that's the one thing it's given, right?

We're storytellers. Now I do acknowledge you not you might

not be a really good storyteller. Going, going back

to what we talked about, it's a skill, okay? It's a skill, and

we can get better. But that, that, that common question is, I

don't have any stories. And it was like, first of all, we all

have stories. What they're thinking in their head is, I

don't have any big, amazing stories, like I'm just normal,

like nothing really bad has happened to me, nothing amazing.

You know, I haven't climbed think

of it right now. I can't

think of it right now, right? So, but I

actually walk people through a pro I will not. I teach them the

process of, first of all, being really clear on your message. So

sometimes people would go, I need to, I need to communicate a

message around innovation. I keep coming back to innovation.

And, like, I just don't have any stories about innovation. I go,

okay, just forget about the story. And I go, what does, what

does innovation mean to you personally. Like, personally,

what does it mean to you? And then they'll go, and then they

have to really think about it, and they'll say things like,

Well, it means just trying something different. Like, okay,

great, what and what else does? And I keep pushing them, what

else does it mean? And it could mean, well, it's just, you know,

it actually, what it means to me is, you know, challenging the

status quo, like literally asking, why are we doing that?

And just because we've always done it, isn't a reason. Okay?

So now, now that instead of this big, big innovation message,

they're going well, what it means to me is just trying

something different or challenging the status quo. That

means both of those things. And then I say, Okay, so can you

think of a time when you've challenged the status quo, when

you've sort of said, Why are you doing this? And can it be when

someone said it to you, or when you've said it to someone else,

or when you haven't said it to someone else, when you actually

just went along with it? Because this is the way. Do it, and you

didn't have the courage to challenge the status quo. And so

then they will go, yeah, yeah, well, yes, but then they go, but

it was just, I remember doing that like when I was 15, and all

my mates were doing something, and I knew we probably shouldn't

do it, and I knew there was a better way. But I just thought,

Oh, what the hell everyone else is doing? So I just did it. And

then, you know, there's this story around that, and then they

go, but that I couldn't share, that I couldn't share that story

to my team. It was like that, that will be the most powerful

story you can share with your team. So it's, um, it's helping

them. To me, a lot of the work is, I mean, yes, I teach them

how to do it like the capability I feel a lot of my work is

giving them the permission to say that, taking them from I

couldn't possibly share a story like that at work. And it was

like, you absolutely should stories like that at work,

because a they're going to be the most engaging. They're going

to be the most memorable. They really humanize you as a leader.

So especially senior leaders, that makes you real and human,

which you've been talking about, they're your most powerful

stories, but yet they're the most underutilized.

Yeah, that's That's brilliant, actually.

That's really, really different. So I know that you talk, I think

you talked in your book about it might be part of what you were

just saying that you teach somehow, but you you talk about

the different places. I don't have the book in front of me,

but yeah, the like some stories are, are for, for, for

leadership. Some stories are for,

yeah, so in the book, so I do, I talk about the

four different types of stories you should share, and they, they

are personal, professional, public and parable. And I do

love the fact, okay, that was very personal. So personal,

professional, public and parable. And if we go, if we, if

I, sort of quickly explain them in reverse order. So a parable

is like a, you know, Aesop's Fables, you know, the boy who

cried wolf type thing. That's a parable. Teachers use parables a

lot. I would imagine it. Parents use parables a lot, right? So,

and parables, I mean, if you want to see how effective

storytelling because parables have lost. One of

the biggest parables, one of the biggest

books I ever read, most effective book I ever read, was

the Go Giver by Bob Berg, and it's a best selling book. Came

out in like 2008 and it was about relationships and about

giving and and whatever. And the first part of and it's told in a

parable, yeah, yeah. And it's beautiful the way it teaches the

lessons in each chapter as

Yeah, and I talk in there's an example I

give in the book. So there's examples I give all of these in

the book. But one is, one is a lecturer. When I did my MBA, I

did a MBA management, leadership, like, 30 years ago,

and the only thing I can remember for that is a parable

they they shared about competitive advantage. So, and

then there's the public story. So these are, like, these are,

like a lot of the public they're in the they're in the public

domain. Like, if you want to, if you want to, story on teamwork,

you just Google, you know, can you give me examples of

teamwork? And you'll find them. So they can a lot of famous case

studies, like a public stories. Those stories are good, but

sharing those stories, they can help you get the message across.

But I actually don't get to find I don't get to know you any

better. So your professional stories and personal stories,

these are your stories. They've happened to you, or you've

experienced them like firsthand. Now the professional stories are

all your work related stories. These are the vast majority of

stories we share. So for example, you could imagine, in a

job interview, right? You're sharing lots of Tell me about a

time when you did this. So there are lot of professional stories.

The personal stories is, it didn't happen at work, but how,

what I teach people is, how do you take that story that didn't

happen at work, but you connect it to your work message, right?

And the science, you know we talk about the art and science

of storytelling, science shows that when you a story like that,

a personal story, it's you not only connect to the message,

which is the whole reason we're sharing stories, but you connect

to the storyteller. So I get to know you a little bit better,

which which? The end result of that is it either fast tracks a

relationship or strengthens an already existing relationship.

So when you think about in business, you're in a sales

situation, you're trying to pitch for work, and if you share

it, if you can share a story around a value that fast tracks

that relationship, they walk out going, not sure what it was, but

I just really feel we could work with them better. You know what

it was? It was the story you shared that. Story, yeah, yeah.

And no, it's funny. While you're talking

about that, I thought of a story, and that's when it

happens to me. It doesn't happen when I'm trying to write a

presentation and I have to think of a story. It happens when I'm

having a conversation.

Yeah, yeah. And so again, the power and the

science behind the story is, I'm I can share a story with you,

and you will think of a similar story. It doesn't have to be the

same, but it could just be slightly similar, which means

you're sort of connecting now me and my story through your story,

right? You don't even have to, you don't have to, have to tell

me your story, but it sparked something

so rapport more easily.

It builds, yeah, so you and you think it

can build. It can build rapport trust really quickly, so fast

tracker relationship, or strengthen an already existing

relationship. So can you imagine in a leadership role, or, you

know, every time you share a personal story with your team,

you're not only getting the message across, which, again, is

why we're doing it, but you're strengthening the relationship

with

your team. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah,

this is brilliant. So couple more questions. If, from your

experience working with organizations around the world,

can you share an example of how storytelling improved

communication or relationships inside a specific company?

Yeah, look, I can I, you know what? I think

one of the, some of the most powerful ones, was it just

really helped individuals. And I think if every individual can do

it, it's helping them be a better leader and communicator.

And one, one example that I absolutely love, love, love is I

worked with a company. It was about 12 years ago, and they

were rolling out values, you know, or communicating their

values. And a lot of the work, work I go in is help you share

personal stories to communicate the company values. And one of

their company values was doing the right thing. So I, you know,

I take people through the process that I just said, Well,

what does that mean to you? What does it mean to you? And this

one woman that I was working with her. Name was Anne, and we

went through the process of what that means to you, and she came

up with a few things, but she, she sort of said what, what it

really means to me when I see that value is doing the right

thing all the time. She goes, I think we're she goes, I think

we're really good at doing the right thing when it suits us.

It's just when it doesn't suit us, that's that's when that

values challenge. And I Okay, so, so then I take it through a

process. Well, where have you experienced this? For Where have

you seen it? And, of course, I teach people like the framework

of story, how to start your story, yeah, what? How to end

it, all that type stuff. So this is a story she shared, so I'll

just share the story and then get your reaction. She said, in

the early 60s, my dad was a professional swimmer, and when

he reached, when he reached the point in his career, that he was

good enough, he actually tried out for the National swim team,

and on on the day of the meet, he was doing his race, and he

got to the end to do the tumble turn, and He misjudged, and he

missed the wall. Now this was in the early 60s, so there was no

senses. They had judges, but with all that splashing and

kicking, he knew they wouldn't know if he touched the wall or

not, so he had to make a split second decision, does he go back

and touch the wall or does he keep going? Now he went back and

touched the wall. Now you don't really recover from a race when

you do that. And there was a whole lot of other reasons, but

Dad never made the national swim team, and growing up as a kid, I

would often hear dad share that story with people, and people

would ask him, Have you ever regretted going back and

touching the wall? And he'd always say, I've never regretted

that, because if I didn't go back and touch the wall, I would

have to spend the rest of my life knowing I did the wrong

thing. And I'm sharing this with you because it reminds me of our

value doing the right thing. It is only a matter of time before

we come across our own go back and touch the wall moment and I

invite you to consider what my dad would do. What is that? What

is that story? Tell You About Anne as a leader. What, like?

What? What are you now feeling about her as a leader, for

example.

Well, the first thing that came to my mind was

that he was a man of integrity. And in saying that, he's taught

her to be in to be a woman of integrity, and that's what it

seems to me, yeah, yeah.

So through that story, and first of all, when

she tells it. What you see in her is absolute pride, yeah,

like she is so proud of her dad, sure, and, and so what is

exactly this isn't, this isn't a company line. She's towing, you

know, company value. She's towing the line for she was

raised this way. This is in her. And so we, I talk about stories

giving you credibility. You know through that story that she

truly believes in doing the right thing. And you know, and

she truly believes that. So first of all, she's going to

live and breathe that. And of course, the subtle message is

she expects me to do it. And if and

if, before you make that decision, and you'll

remember that story, yeah, yeah.

And so she has said, like this was 12 years

ago. To this day, she still shares that story. She sees it

as part of her own leadership induction program. So anyone

that comes and works for her hears that story, she has said

to me, she goes the the amount of heavy lifting I can do in

that 90 seconds. It just communicates who I am as a

leader. And she has said she's had situations where her team

are deciding what to do, and she went, you know, it sort of

starts, sometimes goes down the path of, well, technically, we

don't have to do that. Like, legally, we're not obliged to do

that, right? And she said, someone will say, this is our go

back and touch the wall moment. What's the right thing to do?

And everyone sits there and goes, well, it's clearly the

right thing to do. Yeah. And I was like, right, well, let's do

it then, so that can you see that's that's Values in Action.

And you know what most people say, Oh, doing the right thing

is really important to me. It's, you know, it's like that saying

doing the right thing even if no one's noticing, and it's all

about, you know, doing the right thing even when it doesn't suit

us, like whatever, like, they're just words. There's no

credibility in that. The credibility is in the story now,

now, of course, of course, she's got to live through, like I talk

about being congruent, like she has to truly believe that she

can't tell a story like that, and then, oh no, not follow

through

on, of course. Yeah, is that story in your

book?

No, it's not in my book, because it was in a

previous book. Ah, okay,

but yeah, I didn't think I'd read that

story, but really good one

for sure. Yeah, and she, I still catch up with

Anne and like she's she's moved companies three times, so she

actually no longer even connects it to a company value. She

connects it to her value. And the last time I caught up with

her, she told me that, sadly, her dad had passed away

recently, and she did the eulogy and shared that story.

Of course she did. That's wonderful. That's

full circle. Wow. That's really great. Thank you for sharing

that. So for entrepreneurs and small business owners listening

today, where's the easiest place for them to start using

storytelling in their communications? Yeah, so I

would say especially. Well, not

especially, but for anyone small business entrepreneurs, what are

the values you want to communicate? Now, you might not

have stated values, like large companies always do, right? But

it was like, What do you want to be known for and be clear on

that and and like, do you want to be known for integrity? Do

you want to be known for innovation. Do you want to be

known for, like, exceptional customer service? Do you want to

be known as a trusted partner? Whatever it is you want to be

known for? Be clear on that. Go through that process of saying,

Well, what's that? So I keep saying, Oh, we're a trusted

partner. But what does that really mean? Like, so once

you're clear on that, really mean, and then find stories to

share about them, and yes, share your work, right? So the

professional stories absolutely have some of them, but your

personal stories will be more powerful. And your personal

stories of when you didn't live that value can actually be super

powerful, like when I did not live that value and the regret I

have, and people will sense the regret when you share the story.

So it's it's really clear. I worked with, I work with an

investment company in Vietnam, and I work with the their entire

leadership team, the CEO, CEO was an American guy, and he, you

know, part of them is they get investors in the room, and they

pitch to, you know, for them to invest money in them. And he

said, we used to get up there with our PowerPoints and talk

about the numbers, and this is the return and the blah, blah,

blah. And he goes, it was bought. He goes, it was even

boring to me, yeah. And so I work with them. I actually

worked with them quite a while, and they completely flipped it

to story. So they would have a handful of their executive team,

and they would share stories around their their company

values, but he would share a story, and he called it my

biggest mistake, and he'd shared it, and it was a professional

story is about investment, but he shared the story about all

the mistakes they made with his this investment, just mistake

after mistake after mistake. And he said, initially, I thought to

myself, why would I share that story? Because they're going to

think I'm an idiot and never invest with us. He said the

complete opposite happened. He goes because by sharing that

story of acknowledging I've made mistakes, they felt they could

trust me. And he goes there, and there was also an element that

you've learned those mistakes, and you made mistakes with other

people's money, not our money. And he said, it just completely

changed things. And so now their presentation is just a

collection of

stories, and it was showing his vulnerability.

And how he grew from that, really, because he's sharing it

as a mistake that he made.

So, yeah, absolutely. And I also think

too, if you're a small business, you you're pretty close to all

these stories. And so even if it is a work, a professional story,

it could be, you know, even someone in your team that's done

something just even adding something like I was really

proud of what we did on that day, or to this day, I am so

gutted that we weren't able to achieve what we initially said

we would. Can you see just adding one little thing about

how you felt and make it feel now like more of a story as

opposed to a case study.

Yeah, it's, it's a lesson oftentimes, and it's a

vulnerable story, and it's a from the heart, it's from the

heart. Yeah, that's what makes a difference, right? So, yeah,

absolutely, I totally see that, and I deal in relationships, and

so I really resonate with what you said about when you start

teaching people the storytelling skill and how you start to ask

them those questions, to bring it out of them, whatever I think

I do the same thing when I'm working with somebody on their

LinkedIn profile or or something that they have to do. And I'm

trying to make them bring out what really matters to them and

and in their own voice, show how they solve their clients

problems and things like that. Yeah, it's not about you, it's

about them, and what you what you do for them. And it some for

some people, they have to really twist it around and hadn't

thought about it that way. So, yeah, it's fun. It's fun when

you can get into somebody's psyche a little bit and and help

them draw out what you're trying to get them to do. It's, yeah,

cool.

What I love too, is helping them draw out

those personal stories. Absolutely never, never think of

sharing. I was speaking to a guy the other day, and he all, he

sells innovation like he's all around process improvement. He

goes into companies like he's passionate about process

improvement. And he shared a story like, when he was a five

year old little kid, and when he, I think he grew up in

Canada, and it's snow, and he knew that once water started

flowing through the snow, it would melt faster, and he really

wanted the snow to melt, so we'd go in and dig a little trench

for the snow and and I'm going that little story about him

being five years old doing that, what it shows that process

improvement

that's in him. It's in him, it's in him.

But most people would go, Oh, well, that's like,

I'm not telling a story of when I was five, and it's in his DNA.

It's in his DNA.

Yeah, that's amazing. Okay, I love it. Last

question, if someone listening wanted to improve their own

story, story intelligence, starting today, what's one

simple step they could take?

Buy the book. I, yeah, look, I, you know,

look, I genuinely, this is, this is like 20 years of my life in

this book. It's, it's, it's why, not only why storytelling, but

it's how it's. I'm teaching a repeatable framework. I'm giving

lots of, there's so many different examples, like, you

know, and, you know, for $20 I think it's going to be and yet,

look, you can get it, it can get it online, Amazon, or the usual,

all

the usual places. Is it on your website too?

It is. It is on my website, but it's got a, you

know, it's just got to go through an extra links. But,

yeah,

okay, so it's on Amazon too. Okay, yeah,

it's absolutely on Amazon.

Well, I do encourage people to buy it,

because, actually, I really enjoyed it, and I will read it

again when I can highlight stuff. Because, yes, you know,

skimmed through it, I do admit, but I love the stories. That's

what stopped me every time, right? Was a story, yeah?

So I do. I am. I'm not a big book reader. In

fact, there's very few business books I have got through because

I think most of them, two thirds of them are fluff. But so I

write the book where you don't have to read it end to end. You

can just dip in, dip out, and go, Oh, I've got to, I need to.

I've got it. Needs to give a presentation next week. And, you

know, okay, just go read a few stories in the presentation book

and read the chapter on AI to help you find stories you know,

so that you can dip in and out of it. So it's definitely not a

you know. Got to start and finish it.

Yeah, finish it all well. Thank you. Thank you

again for sharing your insights and reminding us that while

technology continues to evolve, authentic human connection is

still at the heart of meaningful communication. I think your work

highlights something that fits perfectly with this show that

relationships grow stronger when we communicate honestly and

share the experiences that shape who we are. So I'm so glad that

you joined me today and are maybe. This will help people

think more intentionally about the stories that they use in

business and in life, because it's really a broad spectrum,

and we just have to dig in and say, So, what does that remind

me of? What was I thinking at the time or and so on, as you

did so, so clearly with the examples that you gave. So

thanks, Gabrielle. Oh, and one more thing, you have a podcast.

I do have a podcast. So, yes, if you like

listening to podcasts, which clearly you do, because you're

listening to this one, I do have a podcast. It's called Keeping

it real with Jack and Ralph on the rail. Bit of that. And we

release an episode every Monday, and it's a sort of career advice

bit of, you know, short, 2530 minute do A, do a different

topic every Monday,

and I bet it has a good sense of humor.

This is a lot of, there's lots of laughs, lots

of stories. There's a there's a fair bit of swearing, you know,

oh, really, okay if you, if you don't, oh, not, not, not too

bad. But, you know, not, my mom listens to it, and we used to

get in trouble for saying crap when we're growing up. So you

know, if my Mum can listen to it and not be overly offended,

yeah?

Well, it's like, I listen to Julia Louis Dreyfus

podcast. Oh yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a troop. Oh, my God,

I love her. I love

her, and her mother comes on her 90 Yes, your

mother, yeah, yeah. It's funny anyway. Well, thank you for

again, for being here and for your wisdom and your knowledge.

And remember to my audience, I hope you enjoyed what you heard.

If you do, please leave a review. We always appreciate it

and remember to stay connected and be remembered. You.