Shownotes
John and Kaylee sit down with Chris from Krate Tactical for an episode that runs from knife history to the grassroots fight for the Second Amendment. Chris has been in the firearms and self-defense industry for five years, most recently at the US Concealed Carry Association before joining Krate in October 2024. He walks through the company's origin: founders Mark and John started Krate Tactical in 2017 as e-commerce sellers who got hooked on shooting steel targets, figured out manufacturing and distribution, and built a reputation in USPSA and IDPA competition circles. The company makes steel targets, cardboard targets, reactive targets, and a growing line of out-the-front knives, with collector's edition designs that show up at events like GOALS.
The legal core of the episode is knife rights. Chris frames knife rights as the cousin of gun rights, both protected under the Second Amendment, and traces two waves of knife bans: the post-Civil War laws targeting dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives, and the 1958 federal Switchblade Act aimed at switchblades and balisongs. He describes the current renaissance as states roll those restrictions back, citing Wisconsin legalizing switchblades and balisongs at the same time it allowed concealed carry with a permit, and points listeners to Kniferights.org and the USCCA reciprocity map to check local laws. From his soapbox he argues that people intent on harm find a way regardless of the tool, using England's violent crime and knife-crime rates as his example, and pushes for addressing root causes like mental health rather than legislating objects out of existence.
The back half turns to strategy. Chris runs a range in Wisconsin called the Highlands, attached to a winery and music venue, where he introduces non-gun visitors to self-defense through non-lethal tools first, then moves them in bite-sized steps toward firearms. He and the hosts talk about moving people from anti-gun to neutral, the danger of accepting an incremental level of tyranny, campus carry, and how restrictions normalize the idea that a tool must be bad. Kaylee makes the grassroots case: politicians respond to pressure, the Second Amendment has to be on the ballot, and the Second Amendment sanctuary movement that started in Virginia spread county by county into constitutional carry. The episode closes on local races, GOA's role fighting national battles, and a Krate Tactical and GOA deal where part of the proceeds from each knife go back to GOA.
Links
Questions this episode answers
How did Krate Tactical get started, and who founded it?
Krate Tactical was founded in 2017 by Mark and John, who began as e-commerce sellers, got hooked on shooting steel targets, and learned manufacturing and distribution. The company built its reputation in USPSA and IDPA competition circles and makes steel, cardboard, and reactive targets plus a growing line of out-the-front knives.
Why are knife rights considered part of the Second Amendment?
Chris from Krate Tactical frames knife rights as the cousin of gun rights, with both protected under the Second Amendment. The argument is that the right to bear arms covers more than firearms, so the same principles that defend gun ownership also defend the right to carry knives.
What are the two historical waves of knife bans in the United States?
Chris traces two waves of knife bans: post-Civil War laws targeting dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives, and the 1958 federal Switchblade Act aimed at switchblades and balisongs. He describes the current period as a renaissance in which states are rolling those restrictions back.
Which states are rolling back knife laws, and where can you check what's legal in your area?
Chris cites Wisconsin, which legalized switchblades and balisongs at the same time it allowed permitted concealed carry, as an example of the rollback. He points listeners to Kniferights.org and the USCCA reciprocity map to check the laws where they live.
How do you move someone who is anti-gun toward supporting self-defense and firearms?
At his Wisconsin range, the Highlands, Chris introduces non-gun visitors to self-defense through non-lethal tools first, then moves them in bite-sized steps toward firearms. The goal is shifting people from anti-gun to neutral rather than pushing them all the way at once.
What does Chris argue is the real root cause of violence, beyond the weapon used?
Chris argues that people intent on harm find a way regardless of the tool, using England's violent crime and knife-crime rates as his example. He pushes for addressing root causes like mental health instead of legislating objects out of existence.
How did the Second Amendment sanctuary movement grow, and why do local races matter?
The Second Amendment sanctuary movement started in Virginia and spread county by county into constitutional carry. Kaylee makes the grassroots case that politicians respond to pressure, so local races and putting the 2A on the ballot are where the fight is won.
What is the Krate Tactical and GOA deal offering listeners?
Krate Tactical and Gun Owners of America have a deal in which part of the proceeds from each knife go back to GOA. It ties a knife purchase to funding the organization's national fight for the Second Amendment.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Intro and Ammo Squared
- 01:53 — Rapid fire questions
- 07:45 — Chris's background and the Krate origin story
- 13:00 — The knee target and risque designs
- 13:55 — Knife laws and the Second Amendment
- 14:54 — History of knife bans: Civil War to 1958
- 16:39 — The knife rights renaissance and checking your laws
- 19:36 — Soapbox: people find a way to do harm
- 22:45 — Translating knife momentum to gun rights
- 23:25 — Bite-sized steps from non-lethal to firearms
- 34:36 — Campus carry and accepting tyranny
- 39:20 — Grassroots, town halls, and GOA's One in the Chamber
- 46:37 — Second Amendment sanctuary ordinances
- 49:53 — GOALS event, where to find Krate, and close
About the guest
Chris is a representative of Krate Tactical, where he has worked since October 2024. He has been in the firearms and self-defense industry for five years, and before joining Krate he was a business development manager at the US Concealed Carry Association (USCCA). He also runs a range in Wisconsin called the Highlands, which includes a winery and a music venue, where he teaches a non-lethal tools for self-defense class. His last name is not stated in the episode.
Key quotes
"We don't cut corners, we make sure everything's quality." — Chris
"knife rights are the cousin of, of gun rights." — Chris
"People find a way to do harm. If there's evil in your heart, evil will come out of you." — Chris
"the more that people try to regulate these things out of existence, it doesn't work. We need to look at the root cause of what's going on." — Chris
"you start accepting the level of tyranny that you're comfortable with." — Kaylee
"They are counting on our apathy and we can't afford to be apathetic when it comes to protecting our constitutionally protected rights." — Kaylee
"we can give money and then we can give time." — Chris
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined with Chris from Crate Tactical.
Speaker B:Chris, how are you today, my friend?
Speaker C:Doing awesome.
Speaker C:How you guys doing?
Speaker B:Well, we are in beautiful Myrtle Beach.
Speaker B:It is pollen season, so I'm dying slightly.
Speaker B:Kaylee's great.
Speaker A:It's not peak pollen yet.
Speaker B:I'm from the desert.
Speaker B:This is peak pollen for me.
Speaker A:Listen, the cars aren't yellow.
Speaker B:We're good or close.
Speaker C:You know, I, I will take pollen over snow any day.
Speaker C:And up here in lovely Wisconsin, 30 degrees out, you know, and it's a balmy 30 degrees because yesterday was only 20, but a week ago was like 50 and it was short sweater.
Speaker C:So you know, but I'll take, I would take pollen over the snow.
Speaker C:Take pollen.
Speaker B:I miss the Ohio 50 degree shorts weather's days.
Speaker B:But I am, I'm good with no snow in Phoenix.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:Kaylee, like most Americans.
Speaker B:You have a savings account, right?
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker B:Do you have an ammo savings account?
Speaker A:I also do.
Speaker B:And is that through Ammo Squared?
Speaker A:It is, and I've had it for over two years.
Speaker B:Ammo Squared is the only website where you can purchase ammo a little bit at a time and then get it shipped directly to your door.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I have a little bit of money that goes in every month and then I can divide what percentage of that money is used for what calibers of ammo, and then all of a sudden hit a thousand rounds and get shipped to my door.
Speaker B:Well, what if I don't want one of the 70 calibers they have available?
Speaker A:You get to pick and choose and you can even adjust the mounts so that you can hit your target goals faster.
Speaker B:Well, what if I don't want that ammo anymore?
Speaker B:Can I switch it?
Speaker B:Can I get my money back?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's really easy and I always like to see the graph fill up at the end of every month.
Speaker B:So where do I go to get such an awesome service?
Speaker A:Go to Ammo squared dot com.
Speaker B:Get it.
Speaker B:Now start your ammo savings account@ Ammo squared.com.
Speaker B:Let's get into this.
Speaker B:Our first segment is rapid fire questions.
Speaker B:We're going to ask ask you five questions.
Speaker B:You can answer them as quickly or slowly as you like.
Speaker B:The first question is, what is your favorite camo pattern?
Speaker C:Camo pattern.
Speaker C:I'm not really a camo guy.
Speaker C:I'm, I'm a plaid guy.
Speaker C:I may wear a lot of plaid.
Speaker C:You know, the, the camos.
Speaker C:I'm really not super up on my camos.
Speaker C:Don't know a lot about them.
Speaker C:My camo is like the urban Platts.
Speaker C:So if I'm not wearing a Crate tactical shirt, you'll find me in either a solid color hoodie or plaid or Grayman, which gray man can be kind of a camo blending into your urban environments.
Speaker C:And especially if you're concealing and caring, that's a not a bad thing.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:What are you binge watching right now?
Speaker C:White Lotus.
Speaker C:It is the honest, most nerve wracking TV show that I think is out there right now.
Speaker C:So I sit there to relax, but yet also to have my anxiety go up while I'm watching watching that show.
Speaker B:What is your EDC knife and why is it a Crate tactical?
Speaker C:Of course it's a Crate tactical.
Speaker C:So my Crate tactical knife is my EDC knife.
Speaker C:It's an out the front.
Speaker C:Really nice guy.
Speaker C:I actually got this thing two years ago when I was in a former life.
Speaker C:I used to work for the USCCA in business development and Crate Tactile is one of the folks that I sold a booth to at our expo.
Speaker C:There was a awesome gentleman, still works for Crate.
Speaker C:His name is Mike and he handed me one of these knives.
Speaker C:Had this thing for two years.
Speaker C:Done everything from opening boxes to, you know, flipping over beer bottles with the, the leverage to, you know, using it to cut things around in the kitchen.
Speaker C:And it's never failed me.
Speaker C:I've had other knives where you know, they've, they've gone dull, they've broken, especially out the front ones.
Speaker C:But this thing, it's, it's hold or held, tried and true.
Speaker C:On top of that, it's the one I don't lose for whatever reason.
Speaker C:I don't know if it's because it's a nicer knife.
Speaker C:I have lost more knives in the past.
Speaker C:This is the one that for some reason I just have not lost.
Speaker C:So you know, of course not just working for Crate, but previously to working for Crate.
Speaker C:That's been my EDC for the past two years.
Speaker B:One of my favorite EDC knives is a Crate tactical.
Speaker B:It is donut colored, so it's brown and pink with sprinkles all over it because you gotta have that crispy donut life.
Speaker C:You got one of the, the special edition ones from, you know, that we sprinkle on out there from time to time.
Speaker C:One of the collector's edition ones, we make some pretty cool collector's edition ones.
Speaker C:So you know, always go on back to the website if that's the one that you you like to see if there's a new color or new pattern that's out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I got it when we were at goals last year, so really happy with it.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker B:I think it is top tier.
Speaker B:One of my favorite knives to carry also is pink and sprinkly.
Speaker B:I don't know what that says about me.
Speaker C:We, we will be at goals again this year so you will just have to wait and see what knife we have in our booth coming up here.
Speaker A:That is awesome.
Speaker A:Well, continuing with the, the rapid fire questions, who is your most binge watched content creator?
Speaker C:Binge watched content creators creator.
Speaker C:So I used to travel a lot for work and I used to be in my car quite a bit.
Speaker C:Listen to a lot of Steven Crowder lotter with Crowder.
Speaker C:Absolutely love that guy.
Speaker C:He took politics news.
Speaker C:Kind of put a funny spin to it.
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker C:Also that donut operator loved a lot of his stuff.
Speaker C:You know, I think that he also has a way of kind of telling, you know, stories that, that people want to listen to.
Speaker C:And then the arms scholar.
Speaker C:Absolutely love the arms scholar.
Speaker C:He's a guy that kind of breaks down those laws for people like myself that, you know, are not lawyers to be able to, you know, kind of know what's going on in layman's terms, be able to translate that to what that actually means for the average person.
Speaker B:And the last question I've got for you is what is your favorite part of the industry?
Speaker C:Just the people.
Speaker C:You know, I've been in this industry for the past five years and you know, some of the people that you meet and some of the relationships that are formed, there's, there's just not a better group of people.
Speaker C:And the, the other great thing is, you know, everybody kind of gets along.
Speaker C:I've worked in other industries where, you know, competition just has not been healthy.
Speaker C:You've stared at your competition across the way and you know, you've kind of had that weird eyeball from somebody or you, you kind of get that vibe that you're like, oh man, I don't think that person really likes me.
Speaker C:But you know, this is an industry where, you know, because we are underneath fire a lot, you know, we, we kind of stick together, we collaborate, we talk, we're a community and you know, everybody's willing to share, you know, kind of best practices and, and tips and tricks.
Speaker C:So, you know, I've, I've enjoyed my past five years in the firearm industry and the, the self defense industry and hope to continue for a much longer time.
Speaker B:Well, that Wraps up our rapid fire questions.
Speaker B:They're always one of my favorite parts of the show because we get to ping ideas off each other.
Speaker B:So let's go ahead and dive in real quick.
Speaker B:Who you are, how you got with Crate, what is Crate?
Speaker B:All that stuff.
Speaker B:Go ahead and go for it.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So like I said earlier, I've been in the firearm industry for the past five years.
Speaker C:Up until October, I was with the US Concealed Carry association as a business development manager.
Speaker C:So that's where I got to meet a lot of the people in the industry, you know, create a lot of those contacts, get to know the, the players and, and get to see a lot of really cool stuff.
Speaker C:While I was working there, we had a expo.
Speaker C:At that expo every year there was this company called Crate Tactical and I got my yearly call from a gentleman named Mike that said, hey, you know, you got a booth, you know, can we set on up here?
Speaker C:And they were just the nicest, coolest guys and their products were just amazing.
Speaker C:I mean they, they were one of the booths that was always busy and they made simple stuff.
Speaker C:At that point in time when I first got to meet them, like you know, steel targets, paper targets, some you know, reactive type target stuff.
Speaker C:And then two years ago, Mike handed me the knife that I just showed you.
Speaker C:He said, hey, we, we got this new product, why don't you check it on out.
Speaker C:Got the knife, held it, opened it, played around with it, beat the ever living bers out of it.
Speaker C:And it was just extremely solid.
Speaker C:I mean this was something that as I had said, I, I carried every single day.
Speaker C:I opened boxes with it, I opened beer bottles with it.
Speaker C:You know, I dropped it all the time.
Speaker C:You, it just wound up in that pile of stuff.
Speaker C:When you take out your pocket with your keys and you know, getting banged around, I didn't, I didn't baby it and you know, just really showed me the quality of it.
Speaker C: October, this past October in: Speaker C:And from that time I've absolutely loved my time there.
Speaker C:As I talked about, you know, the, the firearm industry and the self defense industry being a community, this company just epitomizes that.
Speaker C:It is, you know, such a tight knit group of people that, you know, even if somebody's sick on our slack channel, they're sending prayers back and forth to each other.
Speaker C:You're getting phone calls from people in the company that you've never even met saying hey, are you all right?
Speaker C:You know, what can we do?
Speaker C:And it's just got that real family vibe to it.
Speaker C: Tactical got started back in: Speaker C:And this is kind of the, the Batman origin story, how Bruce Wayne became Batman.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And it's really similar to a lot of other origin stories I've heard around in the industry.
Speaker C:It all started with going out and shooting.
Speaker C:So Mark and John went on out and before this they were ecom guys, you know, a lot of ebay, uh, Amazon type, you know, e commerce stuff.
Speaker C:But they both enjoyed shooting and they went out and they shot a steel target and you know, they, they realized that that's a heck of a lot more fun than shooting a paper target.
Speaker C:So, you know, the fun set in.
Speaker C:They're like, well, hey, I, you know, this is kind of cool.
Speaker C:How do we make this?
Speaker C:How do we do this?
Speaker C:So between Mark and John, you know, they, they figured out the distribution, they figured out the patterns, they figured out the manufacturing.
Speaker C:They started producing steel targets.
Speaker C:Fast forward in time a little bit.
Speaker C:You know, they were, they were selling some and it was okay, but there, there was a gentleman by the name of Mike, the guy who handed me my first knife.
Speaker C:You know, he started going out to shows and started putting these, these steel targets in, in different competitions and you know, with the USB PSA and IDPA type competitions because we, we make cardboard targets too, and people just absolutely love them.
Speaker C:Everything that crate makes, we make it, but we make it a little bit better.
Speaker C:We don't cut corners, we make sure everything's quality.
Speaker C:You know, on a lot of steel, when you grab it, the edges are kind of rough and you know, sometimes the holes aren't exactly where they should be.
Speaker C:They're off center, they're, they're not spec.
Speaker C:You know, everything that we do, we make sure that there's quality product going out for everything.
Speaker C:So, you know, obviously once Mike started blasting this stuff out there to, to the competition, folks just caught fire.
Speaker C:So in that world, we're pretty big.
Speaker C:Obviously there's room for growth and we'd like to get bigger.
Speaker C:But now we're really branching out in other things.
Speaker C:The out the front knives were really the big first branch that, that started to take off, you know, and now you're going to start to see a slew of products coming on out that are all, all from crate tact.
Speaker C:And we like to make things that people want to buy in quality things, but we like to make it at a price point that's you know, a little bit better than some of the competition, you know, a little bit more affordable, but still maintaining that quality.
Speaker B:Now one of my favorite things that you guys do at shows and give out is the knee target.
Speaker B:Can you go into the origin story of the knee target and kind of tell people what that's about?
Speaker C:I, I can, I can go into the story of when, when I saw the knee target and the skateboard target, when both of those first came out.
Speaker C:And you know, I, again, I was working for a different company at the point in time and I had to say, yeah, I don't know about that.
Speaker C:That's, that's a, that's a little risque.
Speaker C:But you know that of course the Biden.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You know, why are you, why are you shooting them anywhere else?
Speaker C:Just shoot them in the knee.
Speaker C:That's actually really hard to do.
Speaker C:And most non gun people don't realize that, you know, shooting a moving target, that's a need.
Speaker C:But you know, Crate, they've, they've skirted the edge a little bit on, on a couple of their designs, but it's always in, in good humor and we, we don't lose who we are at our heart.
Speaker B:So you guys are the first.
Speaker B:I know targets are a big part of your business, but you are the first company that we've had on that has a, a large knife part of their business as well.
Speaker B:Out the front knives is something that gets attacked, but we're seeing the laws change on that.
Speaker B:And we've also seen Hawaii stand up saying that out the front knives are protected by the second Amendment.
Speaker B:What's it like to sell a product that some states allow, some states don't allow.
Speaker B:And can you dive into the legality of OTF knives?
Speaker C:Yeah, sure.
Speaker C:So, you know, out the front knives, it's, you know, it's the, the, the cousin of, you know, knife rights are the cousin of, of gun rights.
Speaker C:You know, we're both protected underneath the second Amendment.
Speaker C:You know, so that's, that's our founding.
Speaker C:That's the, where the family tree starts.
Speaker C:But it's, it's really similar.
Speaker C:So, you know that there were really two areas of time in which there were a lot of knife laws that were introduced.
Speaker C:One was directly after the Civil War and that really had to do with like a lot of dirks and daggers.
Speaker C:You know, post Civil war, there's a lot of hurt feelings and people feeling certain ways and a lot of, you know, newly freed citizens that are out there.
Speaker C:So there were, there was a lot of violence both Civil War and during the Reconstruction, especially in the South.
Speaker C:So you saw a ton of different knife laws come on out during that time primarily around Dirk's Daggers, Bowie knives, things that people commonly carry.
Speaker C:And it was a, you know, it was under the guise of trying to prevent crime and violence.
Speaker C:But you know, these were knives that, that people used on a regular basis for work, especially people who were in the farming, agriculture, industrial industries.
Speaker C:You know, everyone carried a knife and all these things are starting to become, become illegal.
Speaker C: started to get passed was the: Speaker C:And that was in response to the preferred knife of the juvenile delinquent was, was a switchblade.
Speaker C:So that's where you saw like a lot of switchblades, balisongs, automatic knives start to get, become illegal.
Speaker C:And then fast forward to today, we're kind of having this renaissance knife knife rights are, are starting to kind of come back and things are starting to become legal again.
Speaker C:I know here in the state of Wisconsin, the same time that we, we passed the or we made it legal to conceal carry with a permit, Butterfly Naso balisongs and switchblades became legal in the, in, in Wisconsin.
Speaker C:And you're starting to see that with multiple states those knife laws dial back.
Speaker C:And you know, it's, it's an amazing thing because it allows us to be able to ship to more spots now obviously just like you know, a high capacity magazine or what I like to call a, a standard magazine.
Speaker C:You know, there are some people that say oh, 30 isn't standard, you can only ship 10.
Speaker C:You know, it's the same thing when it comes to out the front knives, balisongs, things like that, where you know, you just really need to be careful the laws are out there.
Speaker C:Kniferights.org is a, is a great place that people can go along with.
Speaker C:The USCCA has a great reciprocity map and both those resources you can use to see what's legal in your area.
Speaker C:Because just like gun laws, you know, it's, it's, you know, I'm real close to Illinois.
Speaker C:The state of Illinois has different laws than the city of Illinois or the city of Chicago versus you know, all these different municipalities and all these different pockets that are out there.
Speaker C:You know, it makes it difficult to know.
Speaker C:So really checking your laws and using those resources to see exactly what's legal in Your area, you just, you need to do it.
Speaker C:Because I could go through an entire podcast and we'd have to sit here for, you know, days on end for me to go through every single law and every single municipality.
Speaker C:Just like you guys know with the, with, with gun laws and where you can carry, where you can't carry.
Speaker C:You know, this place, this one weird thing is illegal, but it's legal on over here.
Speaker C:You know, you go to California and it needs to get approved.
Speaker C:It's, you know, it's very reminiscent of that.
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Speaker B:Check them out at deraarms.com or check them out at Goals in Knoxville August 9th and 10th.
Speaker A:So we are going up on our next segment which is from the Soapbox, which is the time that we delve into some of the spicier topics when it comes to the second amendment and just the community at large and how we make an impact on that.
Speaker A:Obviously you just gave us the rundown on some of the things that have to do with self defense on the knife side of things.
Speaker A:So what is kind of the hot take that you have for us for this from the Soapbox?
Speaker C:You know, for me it's really, you know, people find a way, people find a way to do harm.
Speaker C:If there's evil in your heart, evil will come out of you.
Speaker C:And you know, whether it's a knife, gun, a car, you know, your fists, these are just condiments for evil to release itself from people or hate to release itself from people.
Speaker C:People.
Speaker C:And no matter what laws are out there and how much you try to ban or regulate, you know, in a lot of circumstances it's just going to come out.
Speaker C:When I look at other countries, you know, in particular, you know, England, let's take England for, for example, you know, their violent crime rate is significantly higher than ours.
Speaker C:Even though they've banned guns or severely regulated, when you look at their violent crime rate or when you look at their, I should say knife rate and I should say violent crimes committed with knives, you know, they are so much higher than The United States, it's, it's crazy.
Speaker C:I think they're at about 60 or 70 violent crimes per 100,000 people when it comes to knives versus the US which is a 0.5 violent crimes per 100,000 people committed with knives.
Speaker C:So, you know, whether it's a gun, whether it's a knife, it really doesn't matter.
Speaker C:People are going to find a way.
Speaker C:And the more that you can regulate or the more that people try to regulate these things out of existence, it doesn't work.
Speaker C:We need to look at the root cause of what's going on.
Speaker C:We need to, you know, have conduits for that, that evil, that hate that hurt to come out that are more constructive instead of destructive.
Speaker C:You know, mental health is a huge thing, in my opinion, where, you know, we, we just aren't talking about it enough or we do talk about it, but nobody really does anything.
Speaker C:I know that, you know, people scream at the top of the soapbox and I'm not the person that, you know, it's going to figure out, solve all the world's problems.
Speaker C:But, you know, instead of just talking about it, we need to actually do something about it and get programs out there and get the outreach out there, you know, to, to give people the help so that they don't do these things.
Speaker C:But realistically, you can legislate all you want, but it, it doesn't help.
Speaker C:And it tends to when you, when you put an animal in a cage or needle in a cage, tends to want to get out and get out, even in a, in a fiercer, more destructive way than it had you just left it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that.
Speaker B:I want to dive into this because this is kind of spicy and I think it'll be good, good content.
Speaker B:You know, we're seeing this renaissance in knife law changes.
Speaker B:We're seeing this, you know, things that were deemed evil, like an out the front or an automatic knife or bally song get off.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:How do we get the, that same momentum and translate that over to gun rights?
Speaker B:How do we get that same, same push?
Speaker B:Like we like SBRs and SBS and things like that.
Speaker B:How do we get those deregulated off the nfa?
Speaker B:Just like the knife stuff has come off the laws and regulations.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:I, I think it, it comes down to, to educating the public.
Speaker C:So, you know, not only do I work for Crate Tactile, but I, I also run a range here in Wisconsin.
Speaker C:It's called the Highlands.
Speaker C:And it's, it's a really unique range because you Know, not only do we have a range, but we also have a winery and a music venue.
Speaker C:And a lot of people that visit that winery in that music venue are not gun people.
Speaker C:They you know, maybe have never even thought about, you know, holding a gun, having a gun, self defense in general.
Speaker C:One thing that I did there was I introduced non lethal tools for self defense.
Speaker C:So I introduced, hey, here's your pepper sprays, your tasers, here's ways that are, you know, non lethal ways to, to defend yourself against an attacker.
Speaker C:Because you are so new in my audience there is so new to firearms and to that self defense journey.
Speaker C:You know, from there I've seen people, you know, have that aha moment with that baby step and it's, it's baby steps in doing small consumables, little bite sized bits of information or trainings or you know, subjecting people to those small things shoe until they get that aha moment.
Speaker C:Maybe they never will.
Speaker C:But I've seen more people take that class and that training out at my facility and then people who I would have thought would never be interested in, you know, taking any sort of firearms training show up to the next class where it's just like hey, building a personal defense plan.
Speaker C:And now they're subjected to the firearm side of things.
Speaker C:Do we say in there it's the be all end all best tool ever known a man?
Speaker C:Not really.
Speaker C:Depending on the situation it may or it may not be.
Speaker C:However, if you can subject people to it in bite size, little consumable pieces so that they can get that time to adjust in that mental mindset that's anti gun can switch, I think you're going to be better off.
Speaker C:It's, it's finding that middle ground while not compromising on your runs and showing people that you don't need to be afraid of this thing, but do it in steps that you know, it's like jumping in the freezing cold pool.
Speaker C:You dip a toe in, then the ankle, then you're at the knee.
Speaker C:Next thing you know it, it hits the area that you know, really shocks you and then you go all the way in underneath your head and you're good to go.
Speaker C:So you know, doing that but with bits of information relating to the second amendment and two fires.
Speaker A:I mean I think that's, that's so true in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:You know, when you come to we talk a lot about building that on ramp for people, right?
Speaker A:How do we successfully build a community that is welcoming, that has information readily available, easy to digest and allows for Individuals that might not be a content creator or an organization to take personal responsibility to introduce their friends and family into the Second Amendment.
Speaker A:And I know almost every person we have on the podcast has a story of when they took a friend or a sibling or maybe their child, you know, to the range for the first time or hunting for the first time, and went over, you know, the gun safety and got to experience hands on with them, the world of firearm ownership.
Speaker A:And I think those are very sacred times in our own individual Second Amendment journey where we're able to maybe pass the baton is not the right word, but, you know, welcome them into a space and start educating them on, okay, well, you know, how fantastic it was to shoot the gun, how fun it was, how confident it is knowing that you can defend yourself and your family.
Speaker A:Now is the time that we have to defend this right and to make sure that it doesn't go away so that we, we can continue to defend ourselves and our family.
Speaker C:Well, and, and one other thing with that is you, you don't need to take somebody who's, you know, maybe anti gun or, you know, maybe not fully anti, but doesn't necessarily like them.
Speaker C:You don't need to take people, people from, you know, let's go on the happy scale, the frowny face all the way to the smiley face.
Speaker C:You know, just taking people from a frowny face to a neutral face and getting them one step closer I think is huge.
Speaker C:You know, switching an opinion from, you know, dislike to neutral is just as important as neutral to favorable because that neutral, we can work with that.
Speaker C:You know, at least people are a little bit more receptive.
Speaker C:It's kind of like, you know, you look at your political ideologies and you have people that are so far left and people that are so far right.
Speaker C:You know, if we can just get more of the people in the middle to start talking and having good dialogue, you know, people are more receptive there.
Speaker C:You're not going to get people that are receptive on the, on the edges, but if you can get them just a little bit closer, you know, at least you can open up that dialogue and start to have those meaningful conversations.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean that, and that's a big, the big part of it.
Speaker B:It's just having those meaningful conversations to have them come in maybe on a closed mind, to open their mind and change them into, to thinking like, not like we do, but thinking that the Second Amendment is something that they need in their life.
Speaker A:I think not only that they need it in their life, but that they are arguing against their own right.
Speaker A:One of the things that I think is interesting is as we have talked to more and more people who are, are anti gun, they don't even consider themselves having a second amendment right.
Speaker A:It is, it's almost a foreign concept to them that they have the right to defend themselves and their, and their family.
Speaker A:They've almost, in many cases when we've had these conversations with them, they have relinquished their right to the government.
Speaker A:Well, I don't need to have a firearm because you know, we have police in my community.
Speaker A:I don't need to have a, a, a firearm because, you know, 911 is, is just a phone, you know, is a phone call that I can make.
Speaker A:And it's like, well you can and we do.
Speaker A:But ultimately that's not a form of protection.
Speaker A:That is a more a form of a notification.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My other thing is that I'm, while I sit here thinking and hearing what Chris and you have said, you know, people are very quick to jump on.
Speaker B:You know, I need something to defend myself.
Speaker B:So it's pepper spray or a taser or a, or a pocket knife.
Speaker B:A pocket knife is a great tool.
Speaker B:Not otf the crate tactical.
Speaker B:But I don't know about you, but I do not feel like getting that close.
Speaker B:Stabby.
Speaker B:Stabby.
Speaker B:So how do we bridge that gap where they're okay with some things and a knife is one of those where they, they draw the line at the, the knife, which is a great implement for self defense into going, okay, well I need to get into that EDC firearm and things like that.
Speaker C:And, and I think that's back where you know, introducing things slowly but surely, you know, as I said before, the aha moments I've seen in the tools for non, the non lethal tools for self defense class that we teach out at the Highlands, you know, just seeing the light bulbs go off and then that hunger to learn more.
Speaker C:I think the other thing is about the second amendment and you were talking about, you know, maybe I don't need a gun for self defense and I'll just wait for the police to come.
Speaker C:You know, who, who says what's an acceptable level of self defense fence.
Speaker C:You know, when you're talking, when people are talking about, oh well I don't need a gun because I've got a taser.
Speaker C:Well, you guns become illegal, what's next?
Speaker C:A taser?
Speaker C:Oh, I don't need a taser because I had pepper spray.
Speaker C:What potentially could become next?
Speaker C:Oh, it's pepper spray again.
Speaker C:Going back to the England example Guns are all but non existent is for, for self defense and, and out in the public.
Speaker C:Well, okay, well we don't need that because we have knives.
Speaker C:Most recently there have been laws now in England where you can't have a knife with a point on.
Speaker C:And you know who makes that distinction and what people don't realize is that you know, a knife right is a gun, right is a pepper spray right.
Speaker C:They're, they're rights and they're, they're the ability to defend yourself in a manner in which you find acceptable to you with the arm of your choice whether that's a knife, whether that's a gun and whether that's pepper spray.
Speaker C:So again viewing it all, and as I said before, we're, we're all the family tree.
Speaker C:We've got a grandpa and grandma, second amendment, we're all you know, cousins and uncles underneath.
Speaker C:You know, once you lose one or once there's part an issue with one part of the family family, there's an issue with the entire family that I think we as a collective need to go and address.
Speaker C:So you know, again that's a little bit off topic but you know, from what you said before about rights being under attack, you know, we need to realize it's all the same thing.
Speaker C:And secondly, going back to what I said before about your comment, how do we get people, you know, to, to go from the knife, the pepper spray to the knife to the gun?
Speaker C:Again it's just so small bite sized transitions.
Speaker C:It's going from you know, anti to neutral, neutral to favorable, but not trying to do this huge life changing swing or this mindset swing all at once.
Speaker C:Putting it into bite size packets that you can move people just slightly and then maybe somebody else moves them just slightly more.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean that's, I agree with that completely.
Speaker B:Here, here's a spicy thing that I'd like to bring up and Kayleigh, you can join in because I know that you've had a similar experience.
Speaker B:But you know, college campuses are very known for anti gun thing but they're like, well you can have pepper spray and a taser or a pocket knife.
Speaker B:You know, that is something that again you're taking, they're taking away your ability to use the tools necessary and we've seen some reform to campus carry.
Speaker B:Liberty University is one of the largest campus carry campuses in the country.
Speaker B:We've seen it.
Speaker B:Utah has campus carry in West Virginia.
Speaker A:Last year just got it.
Speaker B:It's one of those things where hey, I am an adult, I should be able to choose My tools for self defense.
Speaker B:How do I, how do we go where pepper spray and tasers and knives are acceptable tools for self defense on a camp college campus?
Speaker B:Where do we get to the point where a firearm is also an acceptable tool?
Speaker A:Well, I think so.
Speaker A:I think one of the more interesting points there is you start accepting the level of tyranny that you're comfortable with.
Speaker A:It's the old, you know, frog in the pot of boiling water.
Speaker A:And the problem is there has been a deliberate attack that although we can definitely see in recent years, it's become a little faster how they want to turn up the heat.
Speaker A:I think the pistol braces kind of reminded everyone just how fast they can make millions of American felons overnight.
Speaker A:But it all comes down to a certain level of, you know, accepting a level of tyranny.
Speaker A:We talk about that we want to see a restoration of the second Amendment, that we want things like the NFA to be abolished.
Speaker A:Those type of restorations have taken over 100 years to build the momentum to overturn that level of tyranny.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so when it comes to the college campuses, the anti gun establishment has had a monopoly.
Speaker A:And so is it any surprise that kids graduating and young adults graduating from college are apprehensive towards self defense, are apprehensive towards firearms because their first experience as adults and on their own is to be defenseless.
Speaker A:And I don't think that that can be overstated, that you can volunteer for the military, you can put yourselves in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, you can do all of these things, things as an adult, but you cannot lawfully, in many states lawfully carry a firearm for self defense.
Speaker A:Yet you can own a firearm, but you're restricted to live oftentimes in a completely gun free zone.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, and to piggyback off of that, you know, I've been very vocal on this podcast about the, the laws and regulations that were where I went to college that you weren't allowed to as a student.
Speaker B:I wasn't allowed to carry on campus, but the minute I graduated or wasn't going to an event on campus, I could legally carry on campus because it was publicly owned.
Speaker B:Because it was a state college, it was publicly owned land.
Speaker B:So the draconian laws that keep us from being able to do that is ridiculous.
Speaker B:Now Kaylee, I want to get your, your step in on this.
Speaker B:And I know Chris kind of talked on it and Chris, I'd like to get your opinion on it.
Speaker B:You know how we saw, you know, the same thing as we see with the NFA items where they're attacked and the laws are silly and things like that.
Speaker B:How do we take a page out of the knife guys book who have gotten these restoration of rights for out the front and bally songs and things that have been tacked that were deemed evil in 19.
Speaker B: I believe Chris said: Speaker B:We're seeing all this restoration.
Speaker B:How do we use that same momentum to restore some of the draconian laws that affect the second Amendment?
Speaker A:Well, I think it's.
Speaker A:It's like you do any law, right?
Speaker A:It comes from the grassroots.
Speaker A:If, if people aren't talking about it, if it is not a issue that is out in front, right, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Speaker A:Politicians are concerned about one thing and one thing only and that is staying in power, right?
Speaker A:That is their goal.
Speaker A:It is why elections are so important.
Speaker A:It's why primaries are so important.
Speaker A:And so if the second amendment is a priority issue for Americans, if to use an overused phrase, if the second amendment is on the ballot, then when they are elected they have to do something about it.
Speaker A:They have to introduce bills like the Shush act, like the Hearing Protection act and work to get those passed.
Speaker A:They have to go and do an audit of the atf.
Speaker A:They have to introduce bills that would dismantle the NFA because gun owners have made it an issue.
Speaker A:And then that issue becomes a mandate on that election cycle.
Speaker A:And it's why it's important to look at where that funding is coming from.
Speaker A:And I encourage everyone who is listening if they haven't seen goa's one in the chamber on this issue, where we break down where the money from the left is coming from and how the Pro2A fight is fought with dollars and cents because it's that kind of breakdown that allows you to understand that it is individuals standing up and fighting and it's individuals becoming members of GOA that allows the fight to be loud and to be vocal.
Speaker A:And it's why we are a megaphone for our members.
Speaker A:The, the anti gunners do not have that grassroots army.
Speaker A:It is a few people that have a lot of money that are investing and it's that difference that can sometimes be tuned out by the political class.
Speaker A:And so we have to remind them and we have to make our voices as individuals stronger by sending those emails, by attending town halls.
Speaker A:You know, as much as we want to pretend, because we're all exhausted by the presidential election that just happened, the midterms have started.
Speaker A:You're now, in that point in time where town halls for your local representatives and for the governor's races are going to be happening.
Speaker A:And so by attending those, and yes, it may take an hour out of your day, you know, once or twice a year, but by attending those, you're able to be a loud and vocal advocate for the second Amendment.
Speaker A:Now, that being said, handle yourself with, with a certain level of decorum.
Speaker A:Be nice.
Speaker A:You know, the squeaky will gets the oil.
Speaker A:But, you know, there's a difference between being a squeaky wheel and being a nuisance.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But you know, doing that politely I think is, is the advantage to moving the ball forward.
Speaker C:And I think you, you did say something very important there.
Speaker C:Go to your local town hall, go to your local meeting.
Speaker C:As we see with knife rights and with gun rights in a lot of other rights, you know, there are states that are relatively free and there are states that are not have very restrictive laws around certain items.
Speaker C:That's where I think your local races, your gubernatorial on down is wildly important.
Speaker C:You look at municipalities where even in states where things aren't illegal in our world, where there are municipalities that have made things illegal, you cannot carry, you know, this type of gun or you need this type of permit or need to be so many feet away from this.
Speaker C:And what that does is in, in people's minds, it normalizes things.
Speaker C:Oh, I can't have this around here because this must be bad.
Speaker C:And you know, it.
Speaker C:So it starts at a very local level.
Speaker C:You know, running for, you know, your, your city council, your town board, your, your village older person, you know, helping out and volunteering in the mayoral races or, you know, your local state senator house races, you know, getting those local judges elected, you know, when to your, your state supreme court.
Speaker C:Those are the, the races that I think really, really matter.
Speaker C:Because if you have a, you know, a Washington D.C. that is so out of touch with what all these states want, it's very, very apparent now things have started to happen.
Speaker C:You look at, you know, the, the concealed carry laws and you look at, you know, constitutional carry, it's, it's becoming a normal thing.
Speaker C:And now the states that do not have that are kind of starting to be the outliers.
Speaker C:So if you can get more of these states to pass these laws which make, makes concealed carry just constitutional carry, well, guess what?
Speaker C:We're going to hit that tipping point where the abnormal states, they're, you know, they're going to look so far out of whack, maybe there will just be national concealed carry reciprocity the same thing for a lot of other gun laws, you know, magazine bans or needing certain permits.
Speaker C:So you know, getting involved in that local race, changing the local mindset and then just letting it grow, I think is wildly important to support the cause.
Speaker C:You know, also as you said, college campuses, schools, school boards, making sure that curriculum that's out there, you know, isn't teaching these anti gun or you know, different types of mentalities that can be damaging to some of our freedoms.
Speaker C:You know, getting involved in colleges and I know that they have boards of advisors and they have different ways that you can get involved, that you can change certain mindsets.
Speaker C:So you know, get in small and then let that influence eventually grow.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I think one of the best examples on how we as second Amendment advocates have won by using that strategy is when we look back at the say so's second Amendment sanctuary ordinances.
Speaker A: back to, I want to say it was: Speaker A:And we've been a participant at that lobby day for a really long time with our good friends vcdl.
Speaker A:And you know, Eric Pratt, our senior vice president speaks almost every year there and it's been a great collaboration with them.
Speaker A:But there were thousands of people there and we saw individuals go to their, their county commissioners and their city municipalities and pass these second Amendment sanctuary ordinances.
Speaker A:And then like wildfire, they grew from Virginia to all over the US at the county level.
Speaker A:And then now we're seeing the fruits of that with constitutional carry and with second Amendment preservation acts.
Speaker A:But we laid the groundwork at the county level and at the city level.
Speaker A:And that is so vitally important.
Speaker A:You know, the founders were very smart with how they set up our government.
Speaker A:It was never supposed to be a top down rule.
Speaker A:It was always supposed to be the local government being kind of your main source of government.
Speaker A:And then as it got further away from you, it got less powerful.
Speaker A:And we've seen that kind of reverse, I think to our detriment in many ways.
Speaker A:And so it's important that we remind the federal government and all levels of government that ultimately they work for us.
Speaker A:And we are going to be active, we are going to be vocal and we're going to be engaged.
Speaker A:And when we see something that goes against our constitutionally protected rights, that we're going to say something about it.
Speaker A:They are counting on our apathy and we can't afford to be apathetic when it comes to protecting our constitutionally protected rights.
Speaker A:The government would look love for you to believe that your rights come from them, but that isn't the case.
Speaker A:That's not what our founders believed and it's not what is, is true and accurate.
Speaker C:And, and that's where I think you know, an organization like yours that can fight the big battles, you know, you're, you're, you have this gigantic army and you are able to go on out in and fight the big battles on a national level.
Speaker C:You know, that's, that's one part of the equation in, you know, by donating to you guys and, and being involved with you guys and you know we, we love everything that you, that you, that you do and letting you fight those big battles.
Speaker C:But then time wise that's the other thing that, that people who are truly invested in the second amendment and truly believe in it, that's the second thing we can give, we can give money and then we can give time.
Speaker C:That time, you know, needs, needs to be dedicated to your, your local organizations, your local races, you know, running for those things if, if there's nobody to oppose and getting those victories on the local level.
Speaker C:And so between we kind of form this sandwich where you know, eventually hopefully, you know this, this isn't even something that we need to talk about.
Speaker C:This is just a accepted right from everybody and we don't have these questions anymore.
Speaker A:I am so excited to invite you to the Gun Owners Advocacy and Leadership Summit this year in Knoxville, Tennessee August 9th and 10th.
Speaker A:This can't miss event is full of your top content creators, brands, two way advocates and the best part about it is it is free with your GOA membership and your spouse and kids are included.
Speaker A:We have dedicated kids zones and amazing talks planned for you and most importantly, exclusives that you won't want to miss.
Speaker A:We are so excited to be back in Knoxville for the second year in a row.
Speaker A:It all kicks off Friday night with a exclusive dinner with John Lovell followed by two complete days of the convention floor open to GOA members.
Speaker A:Upgrade your membership to a Patriot and life member to receive exclusive benefits such as faster check in, exclusive seating at all sessions and some other perks that you don't want to miss.
Speaker A:And you can check it all out@gun owners.org goals.
Speaker A:Please let everyone know where they can find you on social media, your website, all that good stuff.
Speaker C:So look us up on, look up Crate Tactical on Facebook, Instagram, all your major platforms.
Speaker C:Also create tactical.com.
Speaker C:We do have a GOA deal running right now where if you buy a knife, we are.
Speaker C:We are giving part of the proceeds back to goa.
Speaker C:So please come check us out.
Speaker C:Not just the knives and the targets, but our slew of great products.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:We greatly appreciate that partnership.
Speaker B:Chris, as a thank you for being on the show, you will be getting a gift for our guests from Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo.
Speaker B:So this is new for this season.
Speaker B:AAC and Palmetto Armory has teamed up with us to give a gift to all our guests.
Speaker B:So you'll be receiving an email from Alex to get that all taken care of.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Thank you much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, check out Create Tactical.
Speaker B:Check them out at Goals August 9th and 10th in Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker B:We're excited to have them back again for the show.
Speaker B:They were a hit and had a lot of fun meeting up with Mike and.
Speaker B:And the team over there.
Speaker B:Mike's Mike.
Speaker B:If you're listening to this.
Speaker B:Hi, buddy.
Speaker B:Good to see you.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Chris has spoke highly of you on this show, so hope he doesn't get an inflated ego, but had we had a lot of fun with you being on.
Speaker B:Guys, make sure to, like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification and we will catch you in Knoxville August 9th and 10th for goals.
