This episode nearly vanished. Literally. When Corey bumped into fellow podcaster Jeremy Bryant at a New England podcast event, he recognized his voice before placing his face. Then it hit him, they had already recorded an episode of Family Twist with Jeremy, but somehow, that recording got lost.

So here it is. Jeremy’s story is about learning he was donor-conceived, discovering a growing list of half-siblings, and reconciling that truth after the father who raised him had already passed. It’s also about navigating what happens when the story you’ve always been told turns out to be wrong. Also, Jeremy hosts a paranormal podcast, so yes, you may hear something strange in the background.

The second half of the episode features an update with Jeremy’s half-sister Amber. Her discovery led to a national media moment. Amber is the creator of Biohacked, both a podcast and a documentary project about donor conception, secrecy, and the need for reform in the fertility industry. She also created a welcome packet for new half-siblings, because when your biological father helped conceive dozens of people, there is some onboarding involved.

Together, Jeremy and Amber offer two very different reactions to the same truth. One chose peace. One chose action. Both are unforgettable.

The Fertility Industry’s Dark Secret, Told by Two of Its Kids

Topics Covered

• Jeremy’s discovery story and the moment his mom told him the truth
• Grieving a lost parent while uncovering a second one
• What happens when you meet your biological father after a DNA surprise
• Amber’s origin story, and how it unraveled completely
• From being called a “miracle baby” to finding out the truth
• Creating a welcome packet for incoming half-siblings
• How donor-conceived people are fighting for regulation, recognition, and rights
• The emotional fallout of secrecy in the fertility industry

Resources Mentioned

• Jeremy’s podcast, Paranormal the New Normal
• Amber’s podcast and documentary project, Biohacked
• Donor Conceived Community (donorconceivedcommunity.org)
• NPR and other national media coverage of Amber’s story

Share Your Story

Have you uncovered a secret through a DNA test or a forgotten conversation?

Contact us at familytwistpodcast@gmail.com. We’re always looking for the next twist.

Hello, it's Cory from Family Twist. Today's episode is a little bit of a surprise, which is fitting for us, right? We recently unearthed what we're calling a lost interview with a fellow podcaster named Jeremy Bryant. Funny story, while I was at the last New England podcasters group meeting, I heard Jeremy speak and immediately thought, wait a second, I know that voice. Turns out he'd been a guest on Family Twist a while back, but somehow that conversation never made it to air. Now Jeremy's story is a fascinating one.

He's donor conceived and one of a growing number of half siblings connected through a sperm donor program in Albany, York. He's also the host of a paranormal podcast. So if you hear a little static or the sound of something unexplained in his recording, well, maybe that's not just a tech glitch. And after Jeremy's story, we're going to reintroduce you to his half sister, Amber, who's become an outspoken advocate for donor conceived rights. Rick.

So settle in for this double feature of DNA surprises with two half-siblings. There's a touch of supernatural, and people whose stories remind us that truth really does find its way out, sometimes years later, and sometimes through a haunted microphone.

Thank you for joining us again on Family Twist. Our guest this episode is a fellow podcaster, Jeremy Bryant. Jeremy, welcome to the show. So I understand you've got a very interesting Family Twist and I only know just a little bit about it, so I'm excited to hear more.

Thank you, glad to be here.

You could say that. Elaborate, long story, and a lot of changes over the years. I don't know if you want me to jump right into it or not.

Let's go back to the beginning, yes.

All right. So I grew up your typical white suburban American kid. All the stuff you see in the memes on Facebook is true. That's how it was. My parents ended up getting divorced starting when I was in middle school until I was in high school. So it was a long time coming. One of the days my mom's be extra pissed off my father that day. She's just told me she's we're staying in the room and she's just like, I got something I want to tell you guys, but I don't know if I should. I started guessing because you know, I'm like the wise ass and that's what I do. And I'm like,

My brother's not my real brother. I was like kind of hoping on that one, but you know, that wasn't true. Eventually I said, dad's not a real dad, is he? And she just said, like straight out of sudden, like, how do you know that? And I'm like, we look nothing alike. I've towered over him since I was in middle school, but, but yeah, it ended up being that my father had cancer when he was in college and the radiation killed the soldiers. So, so they had to use a donor.

Mm-hmm.

You went through all the right methods and everything like everybody did back then. wanted to do it, apparently where I lived, you went to Albany for that. And there was a lot of different people I know, I now know of that had their parents do that to make them. but so basically that's, we found out the truth then apparently the whole family knew except for us basically. They just be my brother, but it's expensive.

many siblings do you have?

Did they use the same donor?

Yeah, we'll get to that eventually, but yeah. Yeah, they did. But yeah, so I mean, it's expensive. It's and they only did it twice. And then that was enough. They didn't want any more kids in that. My dad, course, was at work. And as soon as my mom told him and said, hey, they know he came out to the house and like was just like hugging, crying, like hugging while crying and like like apologizing, saying he didn't want us to find out that way. And we're like, it's not that big a deal. It doesn't change anything. You've always been our dad.

It's not like, that's not gonna make you dad anymore. You've always been the dad, whether you're genetically or not, who cares, you're still dad. So, moving forward from that, mean, after that, just kinda like, we knew it, but it didn't change anything, it didn't matter, so we didn't really talk about it for a good, I mean, unless I'm explaining to one of my girlfriends throughout the years why I don't look like my dad. But other than that, it just kinda dropped until, well, the two really aren't related, but.

I'm like, I'm European Jewish. I don't know what that means, but I looked into it and I guess it has nothing to do with the actual religion. It's just the group of people that lived in Europe at certain times. So a couple months passed and eventually I get a message. I think in like February or March after that Christmas. And it's from this girl and she's straight up says like, I think you may be my half brother. your parents, she's a sperm donor. And right away I'm like, yeah, I know. Yeah, they did. I know they did. And she's like,

I think we're from the same door.

And it basically turned into this one. She already knew about two other half sisters before she found me, my brother. And since then we found two more half brothers, actually three more half brothers and maybe a couple of half sister or more too. We've had overall, there's about eight or nine of us root out right now that we talk to each other through all the We call it DC family, daughter DC family, but it basically is turning to this.

amazing thing where I mean, I haven't yet to meet any of them. My brother has met most of them. My full brother has met most of them, but I don't travel as much. He does. So I really don't get a chance to go see people might be seeing one end of this month. Maybe, maybe. I don't know. He said he was like, on a trip to round to Brown. If he was just drinking that night or something, some of them want nothing to do with us. Like we've met a couple and like my one half sister even has like a PDF package. He sends out with like all the information about our donor. Who

I email back and forth with like one message and then just, cause I got nothing I really want, need to get to him like, yeah, I mean, if I need to find some medical history someday, at least I can contact him. But I don't need to go to him and do anything. Like it's just, like I'm not looking for someone to replace my father. I would love to meet the man, don't get me wrong. I've been told by my half sisters that I sound just like him. So I would love to meet the man, just to compare things, but, and I mean, he was actually a.

He was a doctor. He was going to college to be a doctor at that time and that was how he made money on the side was dirty

Well, medical school is very expensive and sounds like he was at the clinic pretty frequent.

Yeah, yeah, they're actually my half sister and her friend did a podcast about it called biohacked where my half sister was on the first three episodes talking about her situation and it was actually her and her and Kirk meeting for the first time and like they're like interviews that went like afterwards like how they felt about it everything it's interesting. They moved away from that topic towards the second season so I haven't listened to the show since but it's just I mean I got a shout out in the course because all the halfs, half bros, half sisters did but

It's just, it's interesting. you never would imagine you have all these people who are half family to you and that you never knew they existed in that. Apparently we all lived within a hundred, 200 mile radius of each other growing up because all our parents all went to Albany to get sperm from sperm banks. I'm in Massachusetts now.

So are they kind of all scattered around the New York area or?

My, my, my full brother, along with, I believe one of the half sisters lives in Florida. A couple live around in New York. They moved upstate when COVID happened, but they still live in New York. But, and then the other ones, I am honestly not too sure where they live. I think it's more, they're out Midwest somewhere now, but I'm not a hundred percent sure. We stay at times where we don't, we're not talking to each other like on a daily or weekly basis or anything. It's just like, we, we all have our own lives, our own, most of us have our own kids and our own specific others to deal with. So.

I mean, it's hard enough.

What's the age range of your siblings?

Well, I'm turning 35 this Friday, actually, but my brother's my full brother is almost two years younger than me. So they're all in their early thirties to maybe late thirties. think I'm not the oldest, but I'm close to the oldest.

And what does your mom think of the finding these half siblings?

She thought it was cool. mean, she didn't, she was more amazed that she felt like I could see a picture of the doughnut. That was the thing that, cause like you could see, cause we always wondered where we got our noses from. We always thought there was a big Italian nose, cause that's what we were told. But my mom's side of the family is Italian fully. Well, for the most part fully. But it turns out that it comes from Kurt cause he has the same exact nose I do. And he has the same exact eyes my brother does. It's just like you look at the picture and you could look at either picture of either of us and you're just like, wow.

The similarities are striking. So I mean, she thinks it's cool, I mean, she almost made a joke at one point, like, what about all the moms? Should we have support groups for all of this? I'm like, why? Ours is like the least tragic story of any of my half siblings. it's just, cause it wasn't like, like, I'm pretty sure one of them, like even like their parents hid it from them until they found out they were an ancestry. And like, you can't do that. Like that's.

Those are the stories you hear about where it's just like, oh, like on the podcast they did, Biohack, a lot of people tell their stories like that where like it causes so much turmoil and trauma in the family. With us, was something that happened that was over in like a day when they told us like it wasn't a big deal. It didn't change a thing. It didn't change a freaking thing in the world except we knew what we always suspected anyway. And it's better to hear, oh, I cheated on your father with the mailman.

I mean it is surprising how many people find out that way though. I mean we've had several people on the show who have talked about how they found out was after their parents have died they're going through like their papers and stuff and then they find they find something that way. It's like not only did they not find out their parents never tell them but they can't ask them about it either because they're dead.

I get why they do it because when they were using this firm donors back in the late 80s, early 80s, whatever it was, they never suspected there'd be a day where you can get, your spit in and get DNA back from it. Once your kids are mature enough to handle the truth, you should just tell them the truth. If you're really the parent your whole life anyway and you're there regardless, they're not gonna think anything of you. If you're a shitty father, then you got other issues anyway. So that's you do it. They're gonna find out eventually.

Exactly.

I always joke about my situation because I always knew I was adopted. my joke about my hometown is that the town was so small, if my parents tried to hide it, there'd be no way. Everybody knew, you know, it's like, cause they had lived there before I was born and after. And so there was no hiding that.

Yeah, it makes sense. mean, we grew up in a small town too, but I don't think our town knew about this. Some of them might've because they were friends of my parents and whatnot, but it just was never like a big thing that everybody knew about.

Now how did your sister find out who the donor was?

On her ancestry tree, there was somebody on there who ended up being the nephew of our donor. She said how we related, coming up with blanks for how they were related. So at that point it was just like, as she said, like, said, think I'm going to be related to the Euro. She asked like, your family ever donate sperm.

Like, or before, or were they around the Albany area? It's how she found out. She found out through a relative that was on the family tree. And like it took him a while. At first his family didn't want him talking to her at all or saying anything. And then eventually Kurt just decided, why do I care? They're not going to come to me for money. If they do, just turn away. Like it's not a big deal. So it took him a little while to open it to it too.

How many of your half siblings have a relationship with him now?

on

One or two, mean, all the three half-sisters that started have all met him together and they had like a weekend out or something. But as far as I know, none of us half-brothers have met him yet. I'd love to meet him someday, but he's also in the New South African Tree Source.

Has there been talk with your siblings about having like a full-on reunion with all of you?

We've talked about it plenty, but a lot of us have small children this morning, and it's just like, I mean, we're mostly on the East Coast, so wouldn't be hard, but still, we haven't really put in motion yet. And I mean, we all have our own lives, we're all busy doing our own thing.

That makes sense.

So I'm guessing your brother has been sort of on board with this if he's met most of your half siblings. What's his take on this whole experience?

My brother doesn't talk emotions a lot, I mean, we never really even talked about like, it didn't mean anything to us, that he wasn't our father, it's just what it was. neither of us had any ill feelings toward anything to do with it, since it started. mean, he did a 23andMe DNA test before I did, and they were an ancestry and they contacted me first, that's just way it went. I got him into it, and that's just the way it went. And then, he ended up meeting some of them, because he was in New York City, and he met a couple of them.

He met the couple that live in New York city. And then he met the one that lived in Florida when he moved to Florida. It just worked out. I mean, in his travels, he met one of the half brothers too, just cause they happened to meet up.

My brother travels a lot though. So it was always easy for him to do that. Right.

So I've been listening to your podcast, Paranormal, the New Normal. How did you get into that subject matter?

That was a kid. I used to take them one book out in a Metro school that had Bigfoot and Logs missing all those well-known creatures in it. And I used to read it over and over again. And from there, just kind of went away as I got older, because girls aren't into Bigfoot. I had to kind of leave it behind for a while. But then, I started listening to podcasts. I just got into Bigfoot again more and more. And I got another pair of normal stuff. And when I started podcasting on another podcast before that, they said, you need to start your own show.

was something you love and I was like, all right, well, what do I love? I'm like, paranormal. So let's do a paranormal podcast.

Have you had any supernatural experiences?

I live in a so yeah kind of

Wow.

Just either way it goes. It's, perhaps, Jersey. Yeah.

of the

It wasn't marketed that way, is what you're saying.

I don't think anybody would mark it that way.

Come and live with us. I'm sure there's some people that would love to live in a haunted house.

But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, most of the time I like to think about things that could be true, but might not be true. And try, just try to connect the dots. think that's the fun of it.

Right. What kind of a spirit was in the house?

than I have.

We believe it's just the gentleman who looked at it us, but we don't know for sure. And at this point, we just kind of want to get rid of it.

Hmm

Did he die in the house?

no, no, but that's TV lore that they have to... can't read.

Done.

So he's just coming back because this is the place he knows.

Spirits can get attached to property just as easily as they can to where they die. mean, the ones that get stuck where they die, it's usually just a confusion of like after death. Like it's usually like a sudden thing where they don't know where they are.

What's one of the weirder things that you've encountered since you've been doing this?

Honestly, I don't, I'm not like an experiencer, to that degree. mean, just knowing there's something around you and like, you could feel it. Like I never seen it, but you could feel it. And like, and like we've had chickens die from it. We've had our, we've had our dogs screaming, like they're being murdered, but they're perfectly fine. Just. So, I mean, it's just weird things happen and you just can't, you can't do anything about it. They have actually never talked to me about it. My brother just says, what you want to do. What makes you happy, but.

What do your siblings think of the podcast?

The rest of my half-suffocals I haven't really talked to about that much. They know I do it. I assume they do. Because I posted enough on Facebook. Right. Right. It's a whole- I assume they know. It's just we never really- Honestly, I never even thought to ask them that. It's just, I never lack for guests. Because there's so many paranormal people. People who have experiences out there. There's so many people studying the paranormal field nowadays that it's just, it's never ending the amount of guess you can get.

So they haven't been on his guests.

Yeah, I can only imagine. Ours is a little bit more, a little, you know, tighter. It's like the type of people that, you know, would be good guests for here.

Sure. mean paranormal is the number one podcast type out there right now very much

Well, people are fascinated by images.

Mm-hmm.

So do you have any aspirations for what your relationships will be like in the future with your siblings?

I'd like to get to meet them and maybe get to know them a little bit. I mean, I also went 27 years of my life without knowing who they are. actually 30 years basically. I mean, it's also like, it's not gonna change my life completely that they're there. I mean, yeah, they may look a little bit like me or some of look a little bit more like my brother. But I mean, it's just, I don't know. just, I mean, they're there. I'd love to meet them. I'd love to spend time with them.

I don't get time to do much of anything between podcasting and real life. you know, it's just someday.

Has the donor know like how many successful pregnancies there were?

No, you don't get it. They don't hear once they donate. They don't get a fresh back about it at all.

Gotcha. Okay. We interviewed someone a few weeks ago who I think he's up to like 75 siblings.

I mean, yeah, we hypothesize there could be a hundred out there easily, but he actually has a pot size when he was on the other podcast. He said that there could have been anywhere from 100, 200, like successful at least because he donated a lot over the years to pay for. Oh, a lot of the doctors he was going to college with, they w they wanted intelligent young men who had good health to do it.

Wow, right.

we would love to hear if you do end up meeting your siblings. We'd love to hear about it. So definitely keep in touch and let us know what's going on with your story. excellent. Well, thank you so much, Jeremy. And we'll definitely put your podcast links in the show notes for this episode as well. All right. Great. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Welcome Amber.

definitely.

Thanks

Hi, thanks for having me.

Welcome. We spoke to Jeremy Bryant and that led us to find out about you and your experience with podcasting. then we found your NPR article. mean, we're not stalking you, but it was, it was all interesting. And you know, I love to find similarities between my story and other people's stories. So what would you like to tell us about your discovery in your DNA journey?

Tell the shortest version possible. So I grew up being told I was a miracle baby. My parents were told by their doctors that they could not have children and they had looked into adoption. Then my mom miraculously got pregnant. I was a healthy baby. I was raised with an adopted sister and I never questioned that story. you know.

relatives would reinforce how badly I was wanted and how hard it was for my parents when they couldn't have children and how great it was that they had this miracle baby, like strong golden child vibes. I was very close with my dad growing up. My mom and I are very similar personality wise, intended to clash a lot. And my dad was the safe parent. And yeah, so I never thought

They both had died really young and we didn't have a lot of information about that side of the family. So I did the 23 name, my husband did it. And the first thing that came back was you were 50 % Ashkenazi. And I was like, I'm not Jewish. No one in my family is Jewish. Even where I grew up in rural New York state, there weren't any Jewish people. So I was puzzled by this.

After I finished college, I moved to New York City. And from the moment I moved to New York City, people just started assuming that I was Jewish. Other Jewish people would assume I was Jewish and I'd have to constantly correct people and say, no, that's so funny. I'm not. And people would be like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I'm not. And then I even had these friends and their parents were, you know, these old like Long Beach Jews. And they were like, we're sure. Like when I did the 23andMe, they were like, whatever comes back, it doesn't matter. We'll still love you.

But we know you're Jewish. We know this in our heart. And so when it came back, it was kind of this weird moment of like, that was the sort of the first red flag of like, everyone sees something that I don't see. So I was like, that's kind of funny. So I called my parents, cause I'd been told my whole life that I was, I was half Dutch. My dad was Dutch. His parents were Dutch. They were really big on being Dutch. I studied abroad in the Netherlands. have a Dutch tattoo. It was a huge thing.

So I called my parents and I was like, what is this? And they were just like, weird, that's so weird. And my dad's like, I must be Jewish and didn't know. That's not joke. But again, on like denial Island, lots of people decided to like hide their Jewish identity for a variety of reasons over the last couple centuries. Like there's been a lot of good reasons to do that.

a red.

Who knows like coming through Los Island, like what got lost or what, whatever. So I was able to ignore that red flag for a couple months. And that first 23andMe discovery, I had two first cousins I did not know. But again, my mom has eight siblings. A lot of them got kids all over. I sent both of them messages saying, Hey, I imagine it's your first cousin, but can you fill in the blanks? Neither of them responded.

I get a message a couple of months later from this woman named Caitlin who says, hi, I matched with you on 23andMe as your half sister. Are you done or can see you? I immediately responded, no. I didn't know what that meant. I had to Google it. I was so deeply denial. Her and I were going back and forth and God bless Caitlin. She's a therapist. The best person to blow up your life with.

She kept pushing me. was like, I'm not donor conceived. My dad's my dad. And she was like, well, why, why do you think that we matched? And was telling me her story. And she was like, oh yeah, my mom went to this, this clinic in Albany, which is near where I grew up. And she used a sperm donor and she told me when I was 11 and na na na. And I was like, yeah, no. And I was so deeply denial. I was like, you know what? My dad and her mom had an affair and her mom had made up the story. was texting my dad. Cause again, I'm closer with my dad.

And I was like, do you know what this is about? And he was like, no. And there, was Googling, like, it was possible that like, one of my uncles could have been a sperm donor and the genetic match would be the same. And I was going with that for a while. My dad's like, yeah, I don't know. Finally, I just couldn't stop thinking about it. It was consuming me. My parents had started to become really evasive, being weird all the time. So I was like, I'm going to call them.

And I'm going to record the phone call because at this point I feel so gaslit. I'm prepared for an emotional conversation and I don't want to like just have kind an emotional blackout where, know, the conversation happened, but you were so emotional. You don't know what was actually said. So I decided to record the conversation. I'm a former journalist, so I have the recording app on my phone and I called them and I was just like, look, like what's going on.

And my mom jumped in and told me they were both carriers of a genetic disorder. They were told they cannot have a healthy child. They both agreed to move forward with a sperm donor. But it took so long that when my mom finally did get pregnant, the doctor told her, don't tell your husband, don't tell anyone. Pretend like this never happened. so she, with that advice from her doctor.

told my dad she had stopped going to the clinic and that the baby was his. They had a one in three chance of having a healthy baby was their miracle baby.

So your dad is here. They had already discussed this or is he hearing this for the first time?

So I found out later, a week prior she told him. Okay. He knew the jig was up. Yep. Why she waited that long when she knew I was doing the 23 and me, she waited the last five minutes. So she told him and then they talked about it and decided to tell me. It was insane. I couldn't believe what I was being told. She was angry with me for blowing up her secret.

It was coming.

My dad was beside himself in denial. He kept asking if we could get a paternity test. Yeah. So it was really messy. I held it together on the phone with them. Then I called my husband and everything came out and I was crying so hard I couldn't breathe. I couldn't talk. He thought I got in a car accident. He was like, where are you? I just kept screaming. My dad.

Amber, how old is your adoptive sister? Are you older than her?

I am, she's eight months younger than wow.

a little surprised this didn't come out sooner because it's not a stigma there because you've got an adopted sister.

Right. My sister's black and it's a kinship adoption. It was a guardianship that turned into an adoption. it was kind you know, her mom was in the mix. Like she kind of knew like that was always out there. And that was, that was one of the things I was really plummeted by is I was just like, they, they were always big on like, you have to tell the truth. Like we're always going to be honest with you. And then, you know, it was just, I was

So, Lemmix, I looked back at all these times where there was an opening to tell and my mom just didn't. And that was the thing that I was most upset about was I had a medical issue a couple of years prior. And my doctor was like, you know, I think you're fine, but you should talk to your mom about her medical history. She had a hard time getting pregnant. If you want to have kids, you should know what that history is. And so I called my mom and I was like, hey, I'm having this medical issue.

They want me to talk to you about your fertility history. Can you tell me anything? We just couldn't get pregnant. And like, I looked back on that and I was like, one, that was like, was giving you, that was the moment to be like, actually, you know what? It's time to tell you. I was asking you about my health and you lied to me. That was tough.

she taking this to the grave?

So I really think that she was just like, is the right thing to do. This is the thing that will hurt the least amount of people. And that was the decision she made. And it took a long time for her to come around on understanding why it was so important for me to know.

back of her mind, she probably thought that Amber's dad is her dad. It was always a slim possibility for her. It was the path of least resistance. What gets me is the DNA test consumer market has been pretty popular for more than a decade that, you know, at some point you would think like she'd get a little worried.

Yeah. It's funny you say that because when we got the 23andMe, I told her I was doing it. It was her family. was looking to learn fast. She goes, well, you can't really trust them. Yeah. It's like DNA is how they catch murderers. Exactly. talking about? Wow. And she was like, you can't be sure. Now I look back on that and I was like, oh, the wheels were turning. And she was wondering how much time she had left.

Well, and you wonder how much angst it gave her. can't imagine having that secret from your own child and how torturous that could be. exactly.

And your husband. It was a really big secret. My mom's had a tough life. think there was a lot of stuff that she's just always been able to push down. And I think this was just one more thing where she was just like, if I don't think about it, if nobody knows about it, it's not real.

How soon did you tell your friend's parents you were Jewish?

I told them almost immediately and they were overjoyed. They were like, we know it, we know it. It's now created this complicated thing. don't know if y'all have experienced this with your perceived ethnicity versus your actual ethnicity. I get a lot of questions. I have a Dutch last name. So people, and I have Dutch tattoos and people ask me if I'm Dutch all the time. And I have to say, no, well, and then people ask me if I'm Jewish. And if I say yes, they assume like,

I'm Jewish like I've been raised Jewish from birth or people may well not even ask me if I'm Jewish they'll skipped over to when were you about mitzvah like what's your Hebrew name and I'm just like what so it's funny gray area I find myself in

I'm sure I never had any knowledge of, and I've always known I was adopted. So I just got to make up all kinds of fun things. People would say, even my adoptive parents to look at the three of us, we look like a Benetton ad. were just not, we didn't look anything alike. People would always say when they thought I was my parents' child, my bi, you know, that I was their biological child, were like, what is your family? What is this makeup? You know?

one.

And it was interesting. always tried to explain mom's kind of Italian. Dad's kind of native American, but I'm not related to them at all. had an interesting look in family photos.

Well, it's funny because I, mean, growing up, my people would always just be like, oh my God, you look so much like your mom. look so much like your mom. And I do, but then now that I know who my real dad is, he called me the clone because we have like literally the exact same face. It's creepy. And it's just like, oh yeah, everybody thought I looked like my mom because you didn't see this whole other person who I look at. And I look nothing like my real dad. So it's.

Yeah, and I like, and I don't know if you feel this way, I am fascinated by genetics and sibling resemblance. And I mean, with my kid, I'd be like, oh, he has this and he has that. I wonder if that's from being daughter conceived and having that absence your whole life.

We talk about that a lot, how, you know, I, because I'd always known I was adopted, you know, just assumed I'm never going to find people in my, you know, adoptive family that I'm going to look anything like, which is fine. I didn't care, but it's always intrigued me. Like, I wonder who I really do look like. And now, wow. When I look at my father's both sides of my family, you can put me next to my mother's daughter and see the similarities and put me next to my

father's son in CSimila. It's so fun. It only took me 47 years to find them. Amber, I assume your half sister is not your therapist, but when you got this discovery, did you reach out to her and say, well, it's true.

I always joke about, you know, we'll talk for a while and I'll be like, all right, so you want to build my insurance or no, she's, she's fantastic. I feel so lucky that she is the first sibling I found and the person who was on this journey with me. spoke with my parents. I texted her like, we're right. I'm your sister. We made plans to FaceTime for the first time. I'd seen pictures of her and it was funny, I'm sending pictures and I was like, I don't think we looked so much alike. She told me later, she was like, you idiot.

Face timed it blew my mind because we, our voices are really similar. Our facial expressions are really similar. We do look a lot alike. have a lot in common, but it was an instant connection. The first time we spoke, we talked for almost two hours. It was a total soul connection. She's just a wonderful person. And I was so grateful to be going through this experience with her. She, her mom had told her early on her.

Social dad wasn't in the picture. He took off pretty in her parents' relationship. She thought she had this deadbeat dad she never knew. And then it turned out her mom was like, actually, he's not really your dad. So she was really split method information. But she'd been an only child. guess her mom had gone back to the clinic saying, hey, I'd love to use the same donor. want to have a sibling. And they were like, well, now that you're a single woman, we won't let you use the.

Wow. It's so amazing.

It was just her. She was less interested in finding her bio dad, more interested in finding siblings. Sure. We really connected. And then shortly after that, we were staying in touch and I was keeping her updated on how things were going with my parents. And we both had those same first cousin matches. And so was like, let me just try to email them one more time. Who knows if people see the 23andMe notification, I'm just going to message them one more time.

And they had very like common names. wasn't like I tried Googling them and looking at Facebook and it was, there was like millions of people with these names. So then one day at work, I get a response from one of them. He was pretty young at the time. think he was like 19 and he was just like, Hey, this is weird. I don't know who you are. This is crazy. I didn't know I had cousins. He immediately says, let me add you on Facebook and we can keep talking there. And I'm like jackpot.

And all I knew about our donor was he was a doctor. So I asked, do you have an uncle who's a doctor? He was like, yeah, I only have one uncle and he's a doctor. I was like, okay. And at this point he started to get freaked out because he was just like, he didn't know if he was talking at a turn or not. He was like, I think I need to talk to my mom about this. And I was like, that's fine. Totally understand. While we're connected on Facebook, I'm immediately like searching your last name and found the other.

first cousin, his brother, and our dad. As soon as I saw him, I was like, yeah, that's my dad. Like it was just uncanny. And it was really funny at the time, my profile picture on Facebook was a headshot I had had taken recently at work. And I'm standing like this with like my hands on my hips. His profile picture was him on the mallet in a triathlete. I standing the exact same way and making the same facial expression.

It was creepy. As soon as I saw him, was like, oh my God. I was texting with my half sister. We were just like, we did it. What? Oh my God. Like freaking out. And he came back to us and he was like, look, like he doesn't want me to give you any information. He doesn't want to talk to you. I probably said too much already. I'm sorry. I can't. He locked me. I'm like deleted like his, I already know what I know at this point. My bio dad was still practicing doctor. I looked him up on LinkedIn.

I found his office. We decided to send him a letter certified mail. The adoptee donor conceived preferred method of communication. I remember Caitlin and I drafting the letter being full about every word. We didn't want to come off as too weird or needy or anything. We just wanted to be like, oh, we just want our medical history. We want our family history. We want to know who you are. And what's funny is, you know, now I'm very close with my bio dad.

I get it.

But he told me later, he was like, the letter seems so cold. Like it seemed like you didn't actually care. Like it didn't matter to you. And I was like, we were trying to make, like we were trying to play it cool. We wanted to come off very neutral. And he was like, I took that as like, this actually didn't matter to you. I thought that mismatch was very funny. He got the letter. What's funny is the postmaster general called me to tell me the letter was lost. I was like, the point, was putting it in the middle.

the note got delivered. were like, we're so sorry this has never happened. So I called Caitlin and I was like, I don't know if we'll ever know if he got it. He did get it. The day he reached out to us was the same day I got the confirmation.

Wow, that he had finally gotten it.

Wow. He wrote us an email and was like, this is who I am. What do you want to know? I found out later, his wife had really changed his mind. Normally you hear the opposite. They were together in college when he was donating. She knew about this forever. Wow. Which played an arc's favorite. She was like, you owe them the medical history. You owe them this. just like what, like, what is it going to hurt to, to write an email, you know, just reach out. She really pushed him and.

Yeah. That's crazy.

We went back and forth on email a little and then he was like, what's Facebook? The three of us got on a call and I was so nervous. I felt like a fun house mirror first date. Do I look right? Do I sound right? Are they going to like me? What do I say? And so it was, it was kind of a little awkward at first. And then once we kind of got into the conversation, we ended up talking for two and a half hours. We clicked and had a lot in common and he was so freaked out.

looking at me and looking at Caitlin. And he was just really overwhelmed with the resemblance. And I think up until that point, like obviously he had donated for a long time and he knew these kids were out there. And he even said, was a funny cocktail party story where he'd be like, Oh, have hundred kids somewhere. So he was like, I knew you existed, but you were like hypothetical in my mind. we have this great conversation. then.

After that, Caitlin and I were like, what happened next? Are we never going to see it again? We got our information. He reached out to us the next day and was like, Hey, I really love talking to you. I'm actually going to be in Chicago for a conference. Do you want to meet me? I booked a flight and two weeks later met Caitlin. picked me up and 90 minutes later we were at dinner with him and met him for the first time. And it was so incredible. We ended up staying out till like two in the morning, the three of us.

And then we ended up spending like the whole weekend together. Wow. Since then we've like grown and built our relationship. And he's kind of, would say kind of now almost like an estranged uncle. Like when he's in town, we hang out. He's met my kids. You know, he's met my husband several times. I've met his family and his house a couple of times now. And.

He's been in my house and like, it's yeah, we talk and stay in touch. I feel very, very, very lucky because I know so many people do not get that closure. And then even if they do, they don't get that relationship. Right.

How old are your kids?

My kids are one and four.

they're not aware of the situation.

No, it's interesting because, you know, my husband's parents are divorced and he is a stepdad. And so I think they're used to like, you know, it's not just like there's a mommy and a daddy, like they're kind of used to this kind of spectrum of experiences. And like my sister-in-law is queer and married to a woman. So I think like their perception of like what a family is, is kind of a little more broad. They've never thought it would like, I tried to explain to my son, like,

I grew up with Papa, but Kurt is also my dad and he's just like, okay, which I'm sure will warrant like a larger. You shouldn't be a little older for now. They're just like, whatever.

Which is great. They'll never feel like it's strange. When did your other half siblings start popping up?

Yeah, so at first it was just me and Caitlin and then it happened all at once. I'm trying to remember who came first. I think Jeremy and his brother were next. Then Karen, then Trevin and Brandon. And then we have two who are not interested in knowing us. One popped up and immediately disappeared. Current estimate is that there are 75 to 100 of us.

That's funny because he was very busy in college. We've had another guest with his half sister and they know they're up to 73, 74 that they know about. They think that might be half because the donor was told halfway through his, you know, donations that, here's how many you've got successful, you know, and it was like around 70 and that was halfway through his donor time.

Yeah, they never told him he was, he was at Albany Medical College and the first week of school, they went around to all the dorms and they said, if you want to get in good with the professors and you want to support the college, you will go donate at the clinic. And they gave them a form to fill out and they got a physical. then once you pass the physical and the paperwork stage, then you were in. And it was 25 bucks a pop.

My bio dad is very tall, very fit, blonde hair, blue eyes. And he's like, I thought I was, I was popular because there were a lot of Jewish families in the Albany area. Nope, my dude, were a six three with blonde hair, blue eyes. That's why you're. According to my parents, they didn't pick. wasn't like now where you go through a catalog. My dad is pretty tall with curly blonde hair and light eyes. I think they were just like, okay, like these guys. When I first found Kurt, my.

adopted sister. like, oh, he looks like he could be dad's cousin. They look similar enough. They really did a good job of trying to make it match. But yeah, he said he was the most popular donor in the program. And he donated probably over 500 times over three years.

Did he get it with the professors after that?

It went on to be a doctor, so you made up your masks.

How many of your half-siblings have you formed a relationship with?

Katelyn and I are super close. We talk all the time. We had that relationship forged through not only her supporting me through my discovery, but then we also found our biological dad together. As other siblings came in, we were kind of the ones handing off the information. we became very close. then before we had kids, would go on vacations together and stuff and kind of try to make up for lost time.

come out to visit me and our kids have met. think she and I will always be close by virtue of like having just a ton in common, but also having these experiences that we went through together. And then I've met Karen and Josh, Jeremy's brother. I think, yeah, I think that's it. And it's kind of too like, she graphically spread apart. But I would like to have everyone meet up.

sometime, I do think that would be fun. But we have a group chat that we all, and Tom, sorry, I forgot about Tom. So Tom.

Tom grew up down the street from me. Wow. Best friends with my cousin. wow. There was a funny misunderstanding. He also found out through 23Me, and that's been interesting. Half of our sibling group knew and the other half found out. He matched with me and Caitlin. Caitlin gave him the rundown and then he joined our group and like, he and I, he added me on Facebook. My cousin sees that we're connected on Facebook and my cousin's like.

easy.

what's going on here, like how do you guys know each other? And he was getting kind of defensive about it. He was like, how do you know my cousin? That's your cousin? that's my half sister. My cousin didn't know about my status either and was like, what? And freight. I was like, actually we're not related, sorry. Wow. Yeah, his mind was blown. That's part of why.

I feel strongly about advocacy and regulations. I'm very lucky. didn't date my brother, but there's a world where we're the same age, grew up in the same place with the same people. And it's really creepy to think about. All of my half siblings were conceived in Albany, born around the same area, some left, but my half sister and I have tons of friends in common, grew up 20 miles from each other. I've met Tom, he's local. So I've met four.

Awesome.

Now for a while it was easy because I lived in New York City and a lot of people would like come through New York City and I would get to meet them. We've now created a welcome package. Did Jeremy tell you about the welcome package?

Yeah, but you can tell us more.

I'm the creator of the welcome packet because I'm a type A nut job. We realized it was not sustainable. We've slowed down, but it will be more eventually. People have a lot of questions. We put everything we know about Kurt, his family, and then about all of us. We each have like a page with like a photo with like an intro. All of the information is now in a PowerPoint. When you pop up on 23andMe or Ancestry, you get invited to the group chat and you get the PowerPoint and whatever you choose to do from there.

is your choice, at least we can say, here's all the information and we don't have to retell the whole thing. Spend the emotional labor of explaining everything. That's our new efficiency hack.

has.

Well, has Kurt sort of embraced that, this idea that, you know, that A, you all are welcoming to new half-siblings and he could become involved with many of them?

So he met me and Caitlin, then met Trevin, because Trevin lives in California and drove up with like, I will come to Sacramento like I want to be you. But we have this kind of weird dynamic. He wants me to vet people for him a little bit. He'll be like, I'll go to him and be like, this person emailed you, you didn't email them back, do want to meet with them? And he'll be like, sorry, I'm bad at email. What's the deal with this person? I don't love being.

Don't send me weirdos.

the go between. I'll give people his email, but then he's like, you know, retired and like not checking his email all the time. So then I have to be like, Hey, can I give this person your number? He feels strongly that we have a relationship and that's like, he's never said this, but I feel like he's like, that's all the capacity I have. Like, you know, I have one and like, so that feels kind of weird. Yeah. It's, it's, it's just a, there's no like playbook of like how do you manage these relationships?

How do you choose to invest your like finite time and energy with? And it's just going to expand from here. He was very tickled by the welcome packet.

It has to be daunting because at the time he was making these donations, there was never the thought that anybody could surface, much less hundreds. can't imagine what goes through your mind when you figure that out. Like, wow, this could be exponential. So that's gotta be daunting.

Yeah, I had dinner with him recently. He was in town for his 35th class reunion, which is funny because he was like, I was like, like what your reunion is that he's like, well, how old are you? Well, that makes sense. And he was, you know, I did it with him and his wife and he was like, you know, all my friends said I did it right. I have great adult kids I get to hang out with, but I didn't have to race.

Ha

you

And so he was like, feel like I can crack the code benefits and none of the risky responsibility. was like, yeah, great. Yeah.

Yeah, thanks for my existence. What have things been like with your immediate family, your mom and dad and your sister?

We're at a good point with it. Initially, my mom was like, don't tell anyone. You have to keep this secret. And I was like, that's kind of bullshit. This is my life, my story. This is happening to me. These were your choices. Right. But it's happening to me. Right. So of course, I went and made a documentary and a podcast about it. And I mean, my thing is, I've just always been somebody that this is the way I process things. I started with, you know, after this happened.

And while looking for my bio dad, I was trying to learn more about the industry, joining support groups and trying to understand how this happened. The more I found out, the more I pulled on the thread. was like, how is this legal learning more about people? I'm very lucky. I had a straightforward situation. I had my discovery. I found my donor. He was cool. He doesn't have any kind of crazy illnesses or, you know, really scary medical history, but for most people, that's not the case. I've met people with severe comorbidities.

to a woman who legit has something where the non-medical term is exploding heart disease that she inherited from her donor. She's on a mission to find her half siblings because if they don't know about this condition, they can die. I'm just like, how did we get? The more I found out, the more I was infuriated. Right after my discovery, I connected with a friend from college working at Freight Media. I told her the whole story and she was like, this has to be a podcast.

So it sat on a shelf. Then TJ, the producer, met this woman, Aubrey, who's a documentary filmmaker. And Aubrey was like, yeah, 23andMe just gave me a grant to make a documentary about DNA and ancestry, but I don't have a subject. And TJ was like, well, I have this podcast that nobody wants, but I have a subject. She connected me with Aubrey and we made the documentary. We had to do it in a super tight.

timeframe for Tribeca Film Festival. We were flying all over the country. Fortunately, Kurt was willing to participate and I still had that audio from that first phone call with my parents and they wanted to use the audio in the documentary. And so I had to go to my parents and technically New York's a one party consent state, but I don't want to do that without you knowing and without your consent. And they were very like, my mom was very concerned about it. And I was like, look, you're not being named, you know.

And they agreed, they agreed to sign off on it. They saw the documentary and they were like, you know, we're really proud of you. This is incredible. I think that was healing in the sense that they were like, we understand why you're doing this. Before they saw it, my mom was afraid of what I would say or how she would come off. And then after we made the documentary, we shot it to be a full series or a full length that we couldn't find a home for it. And then TJ landed at Sony and.

They were like, oh, like, you working on anything? And she was like, well, I have this podcast that like, nope, so we made it into a documentary, but we still have the podcast. And they were like, ah, that's interesting, but I don't know if it's the right time. Cut to 2020, COVID happened and Sony's like, hey, we can't send journalists anywhere. We can't report on stories. Does anyone have anything? TJ was like, I feel bad. They gave her some budget. We ended up rerecording a bunch of it, updating it.

really changing, you know, it to not be so much about my story, but to really be about my industry or be about the fertility industry with my story as a through line. It went viral. We were the number one science podcast feeding this American life, radio lab and downloads. was crazy. Interview requests were coming in and at one point I was a notification on people's Apple watch. You got an Apple watch and subscribed to Apple news. Yep. You got a notification with my faith. This woman has over a hundred and half, so they're like,

My phone was blowing up. was like, my God, you were on my Apple watch. This was all happening during COVID. So it felt very surreal. And it was a documentary. The documentary was a kind of smaller splash, but it was like a red carpet and there was a party and there was a thing. Whereas like, you know, we put this out into the world and then I sat in my office. Yep. It's been really cool. I'm still in a, in a class action lawsuit against the FDA and we can talk more about that. But to, to also see one.

the ASRM slowly making changes. And two, people reach out to me all the time and say, I used your documentary to come out to my family as donor conceived. I used your documentary to explain to my parents why I'm so hurt by them not being honest with me. Or I see, like you said, I see myself in this podcast. I'm hearing my story represented. And so I'm just,

To me, both the projects were a labor of love. didn't make a single cent. I think it's important to have our stories out there. I know people who, because of my story, have made different choices about their fertility journey. The more people hear our stories, the more people might realize, just because we did this for decades, maybe this isn't the best way for the human beings we are creating.

I think the argument should be more salient now because, you know, people are just finding things so much more easily than 20 years ago. It feels more unfair to children who are not being told the truth.

Yeah. To circle back on your question about my family, I made the documentary when I was pregnant with my oldest son and named him after my dad. It was something I wanted to do, but it was also symbolic. I told him repeatedly, nothing is changing. Nothing is changing. I think that was a huge step towards his healing. This was a surprise for him too. This was a healing journey for him. I feel like I had more resources to deal with that than he did. My mom was still resentful. And then we had.

Two summers ago, this huge blowout fight because we were at a wedding. I was talking to the father of the bride saying, Oh, your daughter is such a wonderful young woman. Do you have parenting advice? He said, we always treated our kids like people and we're always honest with them. No matter what, even when it was hard, we were always honest with them. And my mom standing next to me goes, absolutely a hundred percent. We did the same thing.

mom. Come on.

I turned to her and I said, not true. Right. And she said, it is true. You never asked. I never lied. You never asked. Wow. Got up and left. was like, I can't. I left and she found me and she's like, what's wrong? I was like, it's super invalidating for you to say, you never lied to me. She lost it. She was like.

If I'm a monster, all these people are monsters. I just did what the doctor told me to. You can't be mad at forever. I was like, I'm not mad, but just acknowledged my lived experience that I was lied to. And I can't this conversation with you. I'm sorry. Like you're being too emotional. I'm going to say something not nice. So I left. She texted me a couple of days later. It was like, you know what? You were right. I'm really sorry. It was just like long thought.

apology, which I was not expecting that it's not her. She was like, you were right. I lied to you. I lied for my own benefit and that hurt you. I'm sorry. It was just like a switch flip. This was two years ago. So this was five years into it. She finally got it that I wasn't just trying to be difficult. wasn't just trying to make things hard for her. This had actually been hard for me. It was all on the basis of this one lie.

That is something I still struggle with, what's real and what's not. If the biggest thing in your life is a lie, what else is a lie?

Nothing changed about the way that you feel about the man who raised you. You know what I'm saying? And probably it never would have if you'd been told when you were three, that's still your dad. He's still the person that took care of you and loved you. I wish parents could see that those relationships aren't going to change.

Right. Yeah. see this a lot, plenty of adoptive parents raise their kid and the kid understands that this person is not a relative. And yet it's funny to me when I see these recipient parents online who are like, well, blood doesn't matter. It's just love that matters. Great. So tell your kid to feel that way, then be honest. I think things have shifted for the good. know, most doctors and clinics are telling people, you know, tell your kids so early that it's not even a memory.

Right, exactly.

make this part of their understanding of who they are. But you still then see like, you know, there was a clinic just down the street from my house when I lived in New York city that was touting. had new facial recognition software that would best match you to a donor. Wow. And it's like, well, that's kind of weird. We get new folks every week in the Spark group who are finding out your 23andMe. So there's still people out there.

bringing to these lies. There's so many stories out there now like mine and others where people are saying tell the truth. Just give your kid the courtesy of their real identity.

It seems like the industry is giving people tools to lie, like reasons to lie.

Exactly. Now we're suing the FDA for accountability to create guardrails around the fertility industry. These guardrails exist in every other country except for the United States. In Japan, there's a limit on the number of families one donor can contribute to. In Canada and the UK, it's illegal to pay someone for a sperm and egg donation. You know, there's kind of like smart guardrails that already exist in other countries.

And then there's other countries who have just fully outlawed anonymous donation. So, you these things already exist. They're already in practice, but the ASRM, you know, donor conception is their cash cow. The fertility industry is afraid to do anything to jeopardize that flow of money.

What a horrible way to prey on people who feel desperate. It's just awful.

Yeah. And I get it. have friends who have experienced infertility or are queer couples that want to have children. I feel strongly that anyone should be able to have a family in the way they want to. But our thing is can we put some guardrails in place to protect these kids and connect them to their biological family? And that's always been, you know, the thing I'll never understand about donor consumption is people are, are, are using a donor because they still want the child to be partly theirs.

But then they could say, blood doesn't matter. genetic relatives don't matter. None of this. And I thought, well, but you still wanted it to be yours. Right. Not the others. Right. Maybe it makes sense. Yeah, exactly. I had a friend who her and her wife wanted a baby really badly and they went through a very expensive process, like IVF process and retrievals. And then they went with an anonymous donor and I was like, well, did you have a choice? And they were like, yeah, but it was $5,000 more to have a known donor.

And I was like, you spent $150,000 on this baby and you want to spend the extra $5,000 to know who their father is?

Okay.

Yeah, no, I'm with you. Doesn't make sense to me.

But the industry is setting people up for this, right? These kids are gonna have questions and hopefully everything's fine. Hopefully their kid is cool with it. Hopefully their medical industry is fine, but it's like, I just can't imagine investing so much in having a child and then being like, but we don't even know that. They don't even know.

With the risk that in 10 years, the child needs to know about, you know, these health concerns, these mental health concerns. It's just unfair to the child. sad. Amber, it's wonderful that you are fighting for change. It's very cool. As you've mentioned, you've got a happy ending kind of fairy tale story and not everybody has that, but it takes a lot of courage to share your journey. So we really appreciate you doing that.

Thank you. mean, I think a lot of this stuff that is happening on the donor conceived advocacy side, we're modeling after the adoption advocacy side, right? Because there's still, there's still a lot to be done there, but clear wins and access to correct birth records and records and more restrictions around how children are moved. We've looked to those models to mirror what we've done. Some states have passed legislation around accurate records for donor conceived people around open, open ID donations. So we're making progress.

I mean, we've gotten a couple saved to make it illegal for a doctor to use their own sperm without telling a patient.

At there's that. Baby steps, but still, it's silly we need to bring that up, but it's real. It's still a real fear. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

stay in touch.

sometimes in a file labeled lost interview. I'm Corey and on behalf of MoonPenny, thanks for listening to Family Twist. remember, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist. The Family Twist podcast is presented by Savoir Fairmark Communications and produced by Howe the Cowboy the Cambridge LLC.