Lt. Col. (ret.) Rob ‘Waldo’ Waldman, leadership speaker, executive coach, author, and experienced combat veteran, reflects on overcoming a fear of heights and claustrophobia in the cockpit, shares a bit of unclassified information, and explains how passion has to be greater than fear, what makes a good wingman in life, always having someone "checking your 6", why he doesn't believe in fearlessness, identifying the lift and drag in your life, and why wingmen never wing it.

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Lieutenant Colonel Waldo Waldman, often referred to as the Wingman.

He's a New York Times and Wall Street Journal, bestselling author.

He is a speaker, but really his background was, he was a decorated F 16.

Fighter pilot, 2,650 flight hours, 65 combat missions.

Just an amazing guy.

So Waldo, welcome to the

show.

Awesome.

Be fine with you.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, man.

So can you tell us about the F 16?

How did you become a pilot?

Why did you become a pilot?

How did that all happen?

For me, it's all about excitement.

I smell the, the smell of JP four jet fuel.

When I was a kid, my dad was a mechanic at Kennedy Airport in New York City.

I saw those floating birds and I was hooked in, in a, in a heartbeat.

I knew this is what I wanted to do.

And I crafted my, my life, my work ethic, my focus around that goal.

A as you know, we, when we have goals, when we're passionate, we're willing to do the hard work necessary to be a pilot.

So the bottom line is, it's not easy to do.

And, uh, as you'll soon discover, and I think I may have shared this with you before, I, I had a massive fear of height.

Which was a big deal when you're flying planes and cluster.

So I've always had challenges with small spaces, but I ne it never affected me in p o w training.

I'll, this is unclassified as, as I can get.

You get, you're stuck into a very small space.

I didn't enjoy it.

Most of us don't, but.

Three years into my 11 year active duty flying career, almost 3000 hours, I almost died in a scuba diving accident around 40 feet under the water.

My mask malfunctioned.

I, I had a panic attack.

It was the worst experience of my life.

Let's leave it at that.

And I said, I'm never doing that again.

And sure enough, three days later, I'm flying.

Through the weather, couldn't see the sun, couldn't see the ground.

I'm, I'm in this, what's, what's called the soup, you know, just locked in.

And essentially I have the same panic attack that I had a few days prior.

But instead of being 40,000 or 40 feet under the water, now I'm 30, 40,000 feet in the air realize I had claustrophobia.

And that shifted everything for me from living with, with flying and enjoying it, to having to challenge myself every single time I strapped into that plane to.

So what, how did you get over that?

So, here I am, you know, I, I wanna fly more than anything.

I love the thrill.

I love, you know, flying jets was the coolest thing in the world.

But then I had this mental issue, this psychological claustrophobia manic issue that I was dealing with the whole time.

And I can spend probably five hours talking with you just about this issue and how I overcame it.

But there are three things.

You have to, number one, love what you do.

You have to enjoy the thrill I call.

Your passion has to be greater than your fear.

So when I strapped in the fly every day, I love the thrill, the excitement, the energy, the challenge, the competition, that that environment got me alive.

And if what you do as an entrepreneur, whatever it is, doesn't get you alive, doesn't get you out of bed.

Nevermind.

What keeps you up?

It doesn't get you out of bed and excites you, abort immediately.

That was critical.

The second thing that allowed me to do it, not quit and play it safe cuz I could have quit and played it safe and, and then eventually told my son, who's now six years old, Hey, guess what?

Your dad had a dream, the fly of sixteens.

And as soon as things got tough, he quit.

Life is about breaking through those challenges.

So, so I, I loved it and then I was manically prepared.

Every time I flew, I knew the mission, I knew the tactics, the procedures.

I asked the what ifs.

What if I had these issues or panic attacks, what's the nearest fields?

Am I confident in my skills?

Am I mentally ready?

Am I physically ready?

Physical, fitness, sleep, not doing, you know, not going out, drinking like a lot of the dudes were.

Nothing against my fighter pop buddies, but we're all big drinkers, most military guys and gals are.

But I said no to the crap that was out there and I got focused on myself, my.

I needed to be present.

Cuz as soon as you're tired, as soon as you're don't get enough sleep, as soon as you're not at fit, that phobia, those issues and depression challenges are gonna come and shoot you down.

So that was another big thing that allowed me to not fail.

And the last thing was the fact that I had.

Wingmen who were flying with me, great men and women who when I looked to my left and right, they would be there for me to when I called out for help.

So having that, those folks with me and knowing they needed me, as soon as you realize other people need you, when I was going in combat, man, if I quit, these folks would be at a disadvantage.

So it was a little bit of peer pressure.

It was a focus on responsibility that these folks needed me.

So when we realized other people in our life need.

We find meaning in our mission and we don't quit when the going gets tough.

People in your life depend on you, and that's that whole wingman philosophy that I wrote my book on.

I like to be there for people.

I am not gonna let my fear stop me from going out there kicking butt and doing what I need to do to help people kick button their life.

So I'm wanna talk to you about the wingman concept.

How does that apply to real life?

Where do you find a wingman?

How do you interact?

What are some of the characteristics of a sort of a, a good wingman if you.

Got it.

Well, let me tell you what, a wing man isn't it?

It's not necessarily your buddy, although they could be one.

It's not necessarily a mentor, although ideally they should be one.

It's not even your spouse or your your best friend, although they all could be one.

It's somebody who you feel comfortable going to for help.

And confident in, in their ability to help you.

And many times that helping hand is gonna come as a proverbial slap across the face.

Somebody telling you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Somebody who's gonna be, who loves you enough, who cares about you enough to tick you off, to humble you.

That's what a wing man is.

A wing man is not your buddy.

Although once again, they, they ideally should be my best friends are the ones who embarrass You call my bluff, who say, Walter, you could do better than that.

What are you thinking?

And make me think to myself, man, I, I know I could be better.

And many times folks in our lives call each other wingman, but allow their partner.

To play it safe, to potentially take the ease way out.

So in my life and everybody's life, I think we need to create those relationships with people who are truly gonna speak the truth to us, be it in a, in a mastermind group, in a, in a relationship.

Those are the type of folks that I flew with.

Those are the type of men and women who, man, I would go to battle with who had my back, who looked out for me, and who, who, who crosschecked my six o'clock, my blind spot, which I'd be happy to share with you.

So that's really the context, you know, it's

important.

So that's what I was gonna ask.

So you talk about that phrase check.

Six.

So very important concept.

And folks, if you can imagine if you're sitting down in your car listening to the podcast or in the gym or whatever, uh, or at your office, if you're sitting in a chair and you're simulate that being the cockpit, you're strapped in, barely able to move with helmet and mask on.

In this tiny little S 16 cockpit, you can see 12 o'clock, which is straight out front, three o'clock, which is to your right, left nine o'clock.

Pretty easy you can look out, but the most vulnerable, vulnerable.

Is behind you.

That's the six o'clock position, and you cannot see that position on your own.

It's almost impossible in that tiny little cockpit.

But if you have a wingman at your right, three o'clock or left nine o'clock, maybe 600 yards or a mile or two away, they can look over your six o'clock for the threat.

For the missiles for the enemy, that's where they're coming normally, not where you can see 'em.

They're sneaking up on you.

They can see your six and you can see theirs.

This concept of mutual support of checking each other's six.

Thinking outside your cockpit is the key to building symbiotic, you know, partnerships and relationships and, and I think in life we need folks.

And, and nurture relationship with people who are gonna see those blind spots for us.

Bring unique insights, skillsets, call out things to us that we may not see as we are strapped into our jet.

Often channelized and Uber focused on one specific thing.

And so a good wingman calls those potential missiles out to you, uh, and tells you to take action and.

Great part of a of wingman relationship is that you do take action and you don't doubt what your wingman's telling you, especially when you can't see that potential threat.

Yeah, there's this

whole, uh, there's this whole trust element working together to sort of move through fear.

I mean, cuz you're in combat.

I mean, you're in combat, you're going up in the plane, you know, there's some chance that you may not be

coming back.

Without a doubt.

Goes back to what I was saying before.

You know, flying fighters for me.

Wasn't just about the missiles and, and the stress and the possibility of dying.

It was dealing with that claustrophobia, the panic attacks, et cetera, which never truly impacted my ability to execute by the way.

Um, I still was able to execute.

And if you're out there in a position, and this is important, folks, if you're out there in a position where you are going to be a hindrance, a safety hindrance, a harm to your team, then you have to have the courage to quit and just not.

That you can't be in something, especially if, if you're in a business and it's hurting your life, hurting your relationships, and you're, you're not able to execute on that because of certain fears and you're literally physically hurting yourself or others, you gotta not do that.

You gotta quit.

And I had every right to do that when I was a pilot, but I was still able to break through the fear.

Here's the point.

We're all gonna have those issues and challenges.

I don't believe in this concept of fearless.

It's cool to, as a title of a book, fearless Leader or, or, or a concept, but fear is human.

It reminds us that we can fail.

It reminds us that we must prepare even more that wing men never wing it.

If you wanna be a top gun in life, you just can't go out there and wing it.

You need to put in the work.

So my work ethic, our work ethic, our ability to put in the time and sacrifice, to be confident if the missile comes, if the panic comes to still execute on them, is, is so critical.

So, I make no bones about the fact that our work ethic, our ability to execute and put in the time is your most important asset other than your, your passion.

It's gotta be both.

I'd much rather fly with somebody who was prepared.

And ready to go.

They may not be Mr or Mrs.

Excitement, right, but they, you just knew they had your back.

They knew the, the tactics, but I'd rather fly with them over somebody that I liked, I enjoyed hanging out with, have a beer with, have a, have played ball or whatever.

That's not how it is.

And life finds somebody who's tactically competent, who has the skillset.

Hopefully it's a lie with their passion and their personality.

So that's one major thing.

And it goes back also in alignment with knowing when you.

That you're not going at it alone.

When you know somebody's gonna have your back, that they're truly out there to support you, to encourage you to help you.

If those missiles or flame outs in life come, it dissipates the fear.

It doesn't remove it.

Knowing when I flew that there were men and women with me, my wingman, I was like, That's awesome, man.

I, I'm not doing this by myself.

It gave me courage, gave me courage.

So important.

So when you're thinking about the challenges in your life, know that there are folks out there who, who could potentially help you, and that means many times that you have to seek them out.

I know the, the preparation is pretty critical.

I mean, just, just give us an idea of what the preparation is like.

Number one, we brief the mission, we know exactly the target, the tactics, the tools we're gonna have before we step out and fly.

We set the time and we make sure we understand our technology, which was constantly changing, but things aren't gonna go perfectly.

And I always say plan for the worst, but then expect the best.

Don't expect the worst Expect the best expect because you planned for the worst.

You were able to go out there.

That builds confidence and creates a sense of joy in what you do, right?

If you're always worrying about the missiles, can't really enjoy life.

So we planned and briefed this mission.

Everybody aligned and, and we also made sure that our tactics were relevant to that particular day.

That particular.

What works at night doesn't work in the daytime.

Low altitude, high altitude, Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, every environment requires unique tactics.

It's about being maniacally relevant and what we think about what we do in business or as an entrepreneur, a lot different than it was a few years ago.

If you are.

Flying a mission with a partner and they show up at that meeting, at that sales call with that client, and they're not prepared.

You should be ticked off.

So we have to be prepared and competent in our team, and that builds that trust that you mentioned before.

That's what a wingman is, a trusted partner.

So that's another thing.

And the last thing that we do before we take off as we contingency plan, we ask what?

Okay, we're flying to the other today.

What if we have an engine fair?

What are the nearest fields that we can land on?

The airfield?

What if, uh, a missile comes?

What are the procedures?

What are the tactics?

If somebody gets shot down, God forbid who's taking over?

What are our plans?

So we think about those what ifs, just as you gotta think about the what ifs on a sales call.

Objections to price.

Uh, a meeting, you can't make the meeting.

You're, you're, uh, you're in traffic.

Do I have the person's cell phone, right?

Can I text them?

Can I call 'em who's gonna take over?

So all those things that, that come into the preparation piece, build confidence and build trust with your team, and most importantly, with the folks you're about to serve.

When you show up and they see you're prepared, confident, you're not winging it, they're like, wow, there's something unique about this company, this person, this value proposition that makes me wanna listen more and say,

Amen.

So there's, there's two other little concepts I want to ask you about.

Lift and drag.

Just really quickly, can you just walk us through that?

Yes, yes.

So, so lift and drag.

So we all know a, you know, aircraft, no order to fly.

It's, it's not an easy thing.

You have the certain aerodynamic components.

I was an engineer in college and then got my mba.

I love this soft skills a lot more than that's techy stuff.

But in order for a plane to fly, you must have a lift.

But there's also.

Your lift has to exceed drag in order for a plane, any flying vehicle to get airborne, and we use thrust as well to propel that aircraft through the air.

Now, in an F 16, there's always things that are gonna be dragging the plane down.

You've got your gear, you have weapon systems, things hanging on the aircraft that are causing friction with the air, the thrust.

The aerodynamics, the, the structure of the wings, et cetera, that helps that plane fly.

But in life, when you think about your ability to fly, to reach, quote, unquote new heights, so you know, pardon the analogy in the pun here, but we in our life have to find ways to overcome the things that are potentially dragging us down.

Our habits, our ability to procrastinate our, our skillsets, our relationships, which often drag us down, right?

Some of our own family members can drag us down.

Some of the people in real life that we're quote unquote friends with can drag us down.

Our habits are, are, are the things in life that challenge us, you know, alcohol, whatever it is.

To be a top gun, to be that trusted partner.

You've gotta work on that inner wingman to overcome those things that potentially drag you down and find what it is that you need to do to lift yourself up through your relationships.

Through your skill sets, right?

The, the reading, the exercise, all those things that we have to do often behind the scenes.

By the way, also, the people in your life, you know, who are gonna lift you up to inspire you when you're having a bad day, when you're having a flame out.

My best friends.

Man, when things are going tough, I pick up the phone and say the three most important words in, in life.

And those are, I need help.

You know, Mayday Mayday, right?

So the best friends in my life, my wingman, they're gonna get me Adam off my butt and say, Walter, you can do this.

I believe in you, and help turn that fear.

That drag and to courage and thrust.

So think about what you need to do in your life and what do you need to say no to?

What disciplines do you have to do to get rid of that drag, to lift yourself up and, and also at the end of the day, who you can lift.

Who you can lend a wing to and lift up and encourage, because that's really what the whole point of being a wingman is.

Yeah.

If you want a fine wingman, be a wingman for other people.

Encourage and lift those folks up.

Be that mentor, the coach that inspire in your organization or in your personal life where, where you really build those relationships.

And that's, that's what I like to do.

That's the type of person I like to be.

The book

is called Never Fly Solo.

Where do you want people to go?

Waldo?

If you want 'em to learn more about you get

connected, I'm gonna give you my website, which is your wingman.com.

There's a ton of videos on there.

And, and before I forget, I also want to give a gift to, uh, the your, your folks.

That you go to your wingman.com/nfs, as in never fly solo, Nancy foxtrot sierra your wingman.com/nfs.

That'll take you to a page to get a free download of my audio book, my New York Times or Wall Street Journal bestseller, never Fly Solo.

I'm gonna give it to you guys and your listeners for.

If you put the password, awesome wingman in there, put the password wingman in there, you'll get a free link, free

audiobook.

Um, so the last thing I just want to make sure that we leave everybody with is your sort of signature call to action is push it

up.

Okay?

So if we're flying in battle together, if we're ready to go, the pressure's there.

The threat is there.

You know, the commitment is there.

And by the way, this is all about commitment, okay?

Because commitment is only tested when the fund stops, right?

When the challenge is there, when the missiles are coming, when we fly in battle, when we cross the fiba, the forward edge of the battle area and enter enemy territory, first thing that we do is we go master arm hot, meaning missiles are coming off that aircraft, God forbid we get shot at.

Next thing we do is we say, push it up, which means we're going a full power.

Executing the plan, we're going for it.

There's no turning back.

We are fully committed, so push it up for me.

And what I want to, to get to your listeners is about ultimately taking action.

It's about saying you've got wingman who are on your team, who you appreciate, by the way, cuz there are many folks that aren't on in your formation who are on the ground.

The maintenance technicians, the intelligence officers, the folks turning the wrenches, filling the jet who aren't necessarily flying in the jet with you.

But a very important wing man.

Appreciate 'em.

There's so many people in that formation who are executing with you.

So push it up.

Your attitude is in action.

It's time to go.

And so the toughest thing in life is to push it up when you don't want to.

When the pressure's there, when you're overwhelmed, when you know there's a potential to lose.

And that's what winners do.

Winners push it up.

Even though they know the enemy's there and they know they may lose.

Uh, and that's the definition of a leader, of courage, of building a culture, of accountability, of going for it.

And I think we need to do that in our life to say, you know what?

Life isn't gonna be perfect every day.

We're gonna have challenges.

We're gonna have, uh, issues and phobias and, and, and, and missiles that come at us, but to push it up and break that fear barrier and.

Take the fight to the enemy, man.

That's, that's the definition of success, and that's how you grow.

When you take that fear, turn it into courage and execute, that's where the lessons of life are.

That's where character is honed, and that's where relationships are emblazoned in gold.

Right.

So that's, that's push it up,

man.

I love it.

Well, thank you first and foremost, Lieutenant Colonel for your.

To our country, and it's an honor to have you here pouring into us.

Awesome.

Hey, you know, we don't need to wear uniforms to serve, right?

We, we do it in our communities every day with our families, with, uh, our partners, our clients.

And I always say, if we wanna say thank you to the Americans who fight for our country, let's be the type of Americans worth fighting for.

Let's wake up every day with honor and integrity and serve knowing that we're contributing to, to the success of people.

Uh, and, and that's how we can make a difference in the world.

That's what it is.

You know, the gratitude.