When we put our trust in Yeshua, we become part of the body of Messiah—the global community of people who believe in Jesus. It is also crucial to join a local congregation where we can worship together, study God’s Word, and love one another. Community can also be messy, and conflict is inevitable. To help us navigate conflict in our relationships, we invited back Scott Brown. He has served God’s chosen people in the United States and New Zealand since 1987.

We discuss questions including:

·   Why is it important for followers of Yeshua to attend a church or messianic congregation?

·   What does the nature of God tell us about community?

·   What does Judaism teach about conflict resolution?

·  What are some strategies to de-escalate a tense situation?

·   How do we decide what is worth fighting for?

(soft upbeat music)

- [Abe] Welcome to Our Hope,

a production of Chosen People Ministries.

On this podcast you will hear inspiring testimonies,

learn about Messianic apologetics

and discover God's plan for Israel and you.

Wherever you're listening, we hope you lean in,

listen closely and be blessed.

(soft upbeat music)

(uplifting music)

- [Nicole] Following Yeshua is not a journey we take alone.

Gods Spirit dwells in us.

We also become part of the body of Messiah

the global community of people who believe in Yeshua.

It is also crucial that we participate in a local church

or messianic congregation.

These are places for us to grow in our faith,

worship together, study Gods Word, love one another,

and do outreach.

Community can also be messy.

We all still struggle with sin and selfishness.

Sometimes, we say rash, unkind statements.

Until Jesus returns, conflict is an inevitable part

of our relationships, even with other believers.

Handling conflict well is essential to healthy communities.

So many families, friendships,

and churches have split over disagreements.

Today we will discuss the role of community,

how to resolve conflict, and heal division.

Our guest is Scott Brown,

who served Gods chosen people

in the United States and New Zealand since 1987.

Scott, welcome back to Our Hope.

- [Scott] It's so good to be here thank you.

- [Nicole] So good to have you again.

I thought you were a perfect fit for this topic,

I'm excited to jump into this episode,

but first I think last time you were on

we asked what your favorite food is.

So we're changing it up.

What is your favorite dessert?

- [Scott] Before you were born Baskin Robbins,

which is the big ice cream company.

- [Nicole] Oh yes.

- [Scott] Used to have a flavor of the month

I don't know if you know that

and they might still do it.

I dunno if they still do it,

but like 40 years ago they come up with a flavor,

garlic ice cream.

- [Nicole] What?

- Garlic ice cream. - Garlic ice cream.

- [Scott] That is definitely not my favorite dessert

it was the worst thing I've ever had. So-

- [Nicole] Was it sweet?

- [Scott] But that is an intro.

It was garlic.

It was cold wet garlic.

I think they just ran out of options

and they had to have something.

So nope, that is not my favorite dessert.

My favorite dessert barna,

is my wife's incredible coffee cake.

With a cup of coffee, you're all invited over

to my place tomorrow to have coffee cake.

- [Nicole] Well then we are heading right there.

- [Scott] Thank you.

- [Nicole] Last time we spoke Scott,

you had just moved back from New Zealand

I think you're in West Virginia right now.

Is that correct?

- [Scott] Yes we are.

- [Nicole] What exactly are you up to these days?

What's ministry looking like in the season?

- [Scott] It's a great joy to be co-directing

network in New Zealand.

The busy season is pretty much in the end stages now

but we have some new projects coming up,

which is exciting, new staff

and new projects for the future.

Also some very cool things are happening

in that the work in New Zealand,

which is really an accommodation ministry

for traveling Israelis,

is sort of spun off into other parts of the world.

I'm loving the fact that I can help other teams

start up in other parts of the world,

including Japan, where we have a couple of

Chosen People Ministry folks

who are starting network in Japan.

We have a new work in Brazil.

I'm just coming alongside as a coach

and a mentor in those.

And also my real joy is just discipling young men.

I'm at the stage of life where I really need

to be helping others succeed in their own goals.

That's a lot of what I do here is just encourage

and mentor young men in leadership.

- [Nicole] That's awesome.

And speaking of discipleship,

we know that when we first come to faith,

one of the most important things that we have to do,

or one of the most important things for us to do

is join a community with other believers.

Why would you say it's important for followers

of Yeshua to be part of a local church

or messianic congregation?

- [Scott] Yeah, Wow.

Huge question.

I'm going to broaden the question if you don't mind

and just ask, why is it important for followers

of Yeshua to assemble together.

Because this is the thing that seems

to be the issue on God's mind in Hebrews 10

and it's there, he tells us,

he says,

'just don't forsake that

don't forsake fellowshipping, assembling together.

And he even gives us an idea

of what should be happening among us,

when we gather, he says,

if I'm getting this right, he says,

consider one another.

He says, stir up love.

He says, stir up, good works.

And he says, exhort one another,

which means, strongly encourage or urge one another.

But what really gets me in the passage

and I think helps answer the question you're asking

is the urgency associated with gathering together.

You're asking why should we get together?

And from the heart of God,

he says, no, no, this is urgent

because we're told in the passage

'to make sure to do this' and so much the more

as you see the day approaching.

Now, the day in the Bible is a euphemism

for the day of judgment.

What I'm hearing here, I could be wrong,

but I think what he's saying is

that in light of the imminence of the day of judgment

in light of the fact that there

will be a coming judgment,

it is all the more reason to be gathering together

in the assembly of believers.

Because in that context,

we're actually saving lives.

We're creating an environment where people

are coming to know Yeshua.

We're creating an environment where people are growing

and being discipled and strengthened in the faith,

being conformed to the image of messiah

'Don't forsake this it's saving and building lives.

- [Nicole] That is so important, Scott

and I find, especially,

I think nowadays a lot of believers tend

to be cautious about gathering with other believers.

I think sometimes we tend

to get maybe easily offended.

And we will talk about conflict later on in this episode.

But when we look at the church and we look

at the way we do services,

we notice that many churches across the spectrum,

regardless of denomination, have a lot of the same elements.

And then we have worship, we have tithes and offerings,

and then we have the sermon.

And a lot of that comes from Jewish liturgy

and the synagogues.

What are some of the Jewish roots

of the church service?

And why is it important that we,

as Gentile believers know about them?

- [Scott] You know your question Nicole,

reminds me of the first few times I was dragged.

I mean, encouraged to attend a Christian Church

as a Jewish speaker.

So here I am, this young Jewish guy

and being pulled into the church environment.

And it was weird to me,

I had expectations.

My expectation was that I would understand nothing

of what was said or being done

and be very uncomfortable about it.

That was largely true, but

I distinctly remember thinking,

what is all this Jewish stuff?

Especially the songs Hosana in the highest, I mean,

do they even know what hoshana means?

And they're talking...

They're singing about the Messiah of Israel

and the tabernacle and the Passover lamb.

And I'm thinking, boy these Gentiles are really confused.

They think they're Jews.

I think that's a reflection of the fact

that everything we call Christian

is coming out of Jewish culture,

Jewish history, Jewish liturgy, Jewish humor,

Jewish, everything.

And that was a great eye opener and revelation,

and really an epiphany for me as a Jew,

understanding that this thing called Christianity

is really stemming from everything Jewish.

In terms of why is it important,

we know about what came from Judaism.

I think it's just important to know for the sake

of our calling to Israel,

our calling to the Jewish people.

I find in my own experience as a Jewish missionary

or as one who is engaging regularly

with the predominantly Gentile church,

that the more they understand

the Jewish roots of the faith and actually

the Jewish roots of the assembly,

the more they love and understand the Jewish people

and Israel.

And also just it enlarges the profundity

and the sense of history and heritage

that we have in the church.

When we realize that what we're doing,

one prime example would be communion.

I find that when Christians understand

that this thing we call the Lord supper

or the communion, that it stems from an ancient ritual

that was born in the heart of God Passover.

When Christians begin to realize all the history behind

the meaning and the prophecy of Passover

and how all of this is consummated in the event

of the communion,

it just enriches the experience.

And there's a sense of history

and meaning that they'd never had before.

I would say it important to understand

the Jewish roots of the service,

if for nothing else to drink more richly from its richness.

- [Nicole] Scott, I love how you said drink more richly

of the richness.

And when we look at the new Testament,

I remember when I started reading more of the old Testament,

I was surprised by how many verses I came across.

That sounded like something I read in the new Testament.

And I didn't realize how many times the new Testament

actually refers back to the Hebrew scriptures.

And one verse that's very important in Judaism

4, which tells us that God echad

So it says, hero is real.

The Lord is our God.

The Lord is one.

And that word for one is echad

but this word carries the sense of a complex unity.

It's like you have a cluster of grapes.

There are many grapes that are united

to make up one cluster.

And here in Deuteronomy and in the entire Bible,

God is presented as this unity of one.

We read in the new Testament that

this is defined more directly

in describing the one true God

as existing in three persons,

the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

What does God's nature reveal to us about community?

- [Scott] Well, I got to tell you,

I love this question because it's something

I've been ruminating on for years.

The question is important because

the community of believers worldwide

is unlike any other community on the planet.

Every other community is temporal and physical.

Whether it's your golf club or your sewing club

or your whatever.

But the body of Messiah is a spiritual community

that exists as a spiritual phenomenon.

It is eternal and it's supernatural.

So, Nicole, I agree with your suggestion

that this amazing supernatural community

actually reflects the triunity of God.

If that's what I'm hearing you say.

For example,

have you noticed how the scriptures

reveal the body in three dimensions?

It's kind of like community cause and corporation.

And each of these dimensions has its own metaphor

in the new Testament.

We're a family, that's a community aspect,

we're an army, that's the causal aspect.

And we're an organization,

and that is the corporate aspect.

I remember when I was first,

a brand new believer and coming to church

and people would introduced me as,

Hey, this is my brother, Bob.

This is my sister, Sarah.

And you know, he's introducing me

to his brothers and sisters.

And I'm thinking, man,

no wonder his parents aren't here.

They're exhausted.

This guy has the biggest family

I've ever seen in my life.

We are very much a family.

The primary value there is love,

but we're also an army.

We're putting on spiritual warfare,

we're engaged in a war.

We have a real enemy.

We have weapons of our warfare.

We're also an organization.

That's the corporate aspect where we have roles

and we have offices and we have duties

and we're handling money.

We have to have plans and strategies,

it's all there.

So that's a reflection I think

of the triunity of God.

We have this sort of triune nature

and it's dangerously possible to lose balance

in the expression of these three dimensions.

For example I know of churches that are all community,

but they're not engaged in the war

or they're lacking proper administration

of gifts and roles,

and as a result, they're very unbalanced.

I know of a messianic congregation years ago,

they don't exist anymore.

And one of the reasons they don't exist is

because their leader was all about warfare.

He was an incredible spiritual warrior.

And he had the congregation out there,

every Shabbat sharing their faith

with people on the streets.

But the problem is there was no family aspect.

And without that community aspect,

they finally dissolved.

So I see this very, very evident,

the triunity of God,

the echad of God seen in the body.

In fact, these three dimensions of the body

even correspond with the triune dimensions

of Yeshua himself.

I mean that body from 2000 years ago, Yeshua,

he was multidimensional in that he was a prophet,

he was priest and he was king.

In other words,

Yeshua had a triune expression in fulfilling

the roles of prophet, priest and king.

And I think the same can be said of

his body today, which is us.

We see within the corporate body,

these supernatural expressions of Yeshua's prophetic

and priestly and kingly aspects.

And I bet you, Nicole,

that you could cite the names of believers, you know,

who are the prophetic type,

the ones who they boldly proclaim the truth of scripture.

And they have no trouble rebuking bad behavior

when they see it.

And you could cite the priestly type

who love to pray and intercede for others,

They're very pastoral.

They stand in the gap between people and go on.

They reflect Yeshua the high priest

and the Kingly type too.

Our president is one of those,

that is the president of our organization,

gifted in leadership, in administration,

gifted in overseeing and maintaining order.

And they reflect the king Yeshua.

So we see the triunity in the community.

(soft upbeat music)

- [Nicole] We'll be right back.

- [Abe] During these difficult times,

we know how hard it is to hold on to hope.

And we want you to know that Chosen People Ministries

is here for you.

If you have any prayer request,

our prayer team is standing by to receive them.

You can submit your request

to chosenpeople.com/pray

again, that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

(soft upbeat music)

- [Announcer] Shalom,

we are so glad you're joining us

on this episode of Our Hope.

We created this podcast as a resource

for followers of Yeshua,

where they can learn more about Israel,

the Bible, and the Jewish community.

Together, we discuss messianic of apologetics,

dive into scripture and hear stories

from Jewish believers in Jesus.

If you've enjoyed our podcast series,

please consider supporting us

@ourhopepodcast.com/support.

You could also help us by sharing this podcast

on social media, talking about

it with your friends and family,

or by writing a review on our apple podcasts.

We are so grateful for you.

And we hope this episode of Our Hope

is both enlightening and encouraging.

- [Nicole] Why do you think God made us all differently?

And how can we function as a unified body?

- [Scott] You know, if only everyone were

like you and me, Nicole

life would be so much easier.

Maybe, maybe not.

You just like me.

No, actually, if people were all like us,

it would be very dull and powerless.

And the conversation we just had proves

that the body of Messiah has to have diversity,

if we are to function well,

has to have diversity,

if we're going to demonstrate the character

and the values of an awesome multidimensional God.

But you're asking a good question.

That is how in the world do we experience unity

with all this diversity going on?

Whenever I hear the question or something like it,

I always go back to 1 Corinthians 1.

It's an amazing passage in verse 10.

It's like the holy spirit is literally pleading with us

to get along.

It's in the context of Paul speaking

to the Corinthians, but he says,

"Now I plead with you brethren,

by the name of our Lord.

Yeshua the messiah."

Now I get what he says here,

that you all speak the same thing,

that there be no divisions among you,

that you be perfectly joined together

in the same mind and in the same judgment.

And you're tempted to think,

oh yeah, I mean, have you ever been to church,

you serious,

speak the same thing,

no divisions perfectly joined together.

You look at Acts 2,

you see the believers continually in fellowship.

They're breaking bread,

they're praying together and they're studying together

and they're daily in one accord.

If you're a child of God in this family,

this army, this corporation,

there's something in you that longs

for this kind of fellowship.

And so the question is, how do you get there?

So again, some will disagree,

but I believe it's inaccurate

to say that our collinear our spiritual fellowship.

Is in Messiah.

Now, yes in Messiah, we have life.

We'll see that in Galatians 2.

In Messiah, we have salvation,

We see that in Ephesians 1,

in Messiah, we're new creatures

and in Messiah, we have become the righteousness of God,

2 Corinthians 5,

but we're not talking about that stuff.

We're talking about fellowship today.

And our fellowship,

the link that joins us perfectly together

and enables us to speak and think,

and judge in a unified way,

it isn't Messiah.

It's Messiah crucified.

Now that's from 1 Corinthians 1.

And I'm suggesting that if there's only one thing

that guarantees perfect unity in the midst

of all of our necessary diversity,

it's not our common practice of messianic Judaism

or Christianity, it's not our commitment

to whatever evangelism or discipleship.

It's not our compatible theologies.

It's not even our shared faith in God,

the Bible or the messiahship of Yeshua.

It is the tree upon which Messiah was crucified.

Nicole, that is the basis of our bond.

That is the secret to our unity,

being found in appearance as a man,

Philippines 2:8,

he, Jesus humbled himself and was obedient

to the point of death.

Even the death of the cross.

When we apply that to the tensions

that exist in the midst of community,

we find perfect unit.

- [Nicole] Amen.

- [Scott] If we try to emulate the one we're following,

we're still in deep kimchi,

we're not going to make any advancement.

We'll have no success in overcoming our tensions

and our disunity.

It's either going to be the life of Yeshua emanating

from us and loving through us,

or we'll just continue in our

remarkable discontentedness and disunity.

But we had that resource.

That's the wonder of it all.

We had the resource of love

by reason of an indwelling spirit.

- [Nicole] Yeah, that's right.

Scott, the unifying factor between,

I would say messianic congregations

and Christianity as a whole,

is our faith in Yeshua.

But one thing I've noticed working at CPM

is that a lot of people don't know

about messianic Judaism.

I've spoken to different people

and they've never heard of it.

And then if you go to the Jewish community

and you talk to them about messianic Judaism,

they don't see it as a sec of Judaism either.

And so it could be tough for the messianic Jewish community.

I think they kind of feel maybe a bit ostracized.

How can we as Gentile believers, cultivate community,

and better support the messianic community?

- [Nicole] Well, for talking about cultivating community,

for example,

between the Gentile church

and messianic congregations,

Nicole I'm one of those small minded believers

who actually believes that the Bible

contains all the wisdom we need

to live to live life successfully.

I would go there to the Bible

to answer that question.

Unless I'm missing something,

it doesn't appear that God recognizes a distinction

between the Gentile church

and messianic congregations.

Don't worry, I'll get to the practical bit.

But I just to lay some theological groundwork,

God definitely distinguishes between Gentiles

and Jews and the church in Israel

and regenerated and unregenerated people.

But when it comes to the universal faith community,

he sees it as one new man.

And it course I'm referring

to Ephesians 2:13-16,

which talks about that middle wall being broken down

between Jew and Gentile

and this new organism, literally an organism.

I mean, you and I,

and all the rest of the believing community,

we have connective tissue,

we are literally the blood and the bones

and the body of Messiah.

We are one new man.

But your question is a good one

because it acknowledges a very practical challenge,

namely cultivating community among Gentile

and messianic faith communities.

In my experience,

one solution to bridging that gap is very similar

to the solution for bridging the gap between

Jewish people and the gospel.

The same problem exists between both riffs.

I can tell you as a Jew, we have some huge rocks.

We, the Jewish people and particularly non-believing Jews,

we have some huge rocks in the garden

that need to be removed before gospel seeds

can take root and you know what they are,

big rocks.

Christianity is the antithesis of everything Jewish.

Jews can't believe in Jesus and remain Jewish.

The new Testament is adding some headache.

The fact is we Jews are harboring

some significant myths about Christ

and Christians and Christianity.

And once these boulders are removed,

bridge building is so much easier.

And it's the same with bridge building

between churches and congregations.

There are these boulders and some of these boulders

need to be removed and some of these myths dissolved,

for example, many churches are...

They're just lacking understanding

of the Jewish roots of the Christian faith

and many Christians for lack of exposure

to Jewish people are harboring

some very dangerous misbelief

like Jewish people are hostile toward Jesus.

No, that's not true entirely.

My point is that we need to be about the business

of removing some of these boulders.

And once that's done,

I find the holy spirit begins

to bridge that gap and build those bridges

between Gentile churches and messianic communities.

I've seen unbelievable change of attitudes.

Many times we who are Jewish workers in the Christian world

are the first Jewish people

that Gentile believers meet.

And so when they begin to see, oh,

we are very much like you,

we share the same faith.

and some of the things that kept us

from accepting Yeshua

are some of the very same things that kept you.

You know, those myths break down.

Those walls come down.

- [Nicole] Scott,

I find one of the biggest hurdles to building community,

whether it's between the church and messianic congregations

or between individuals within one single congregation

is the fact that conflict gets in the way,

we're human inevitably, at some point,

we're going to say something that might offend someone.

What does Judaism teach about conflict resolution?

- [Scott] Oh, Nicole.

Wow.

It's a good thing, we have 4 hours to discuss this

(both chuckles)

cause I'm presuming you're referring

to rabbinic Judaism,

which contains an enormous body of rabbinic literature

on every subject native to human relationships

and conflict resolution being among the biggest.

If you know anything about Judaism,

you know that it is all about diversity

and the terminology itself,

which is ancient contains just

lots of streams of ideas,

about everything from worship to marriage,

to business, to sex, to conflict resolution.

And therefore there is no definitive response

to that question.

But just one thing I would say in a broad brush sense

that rabbinic Judaism speaks to the issue

comprehensively conflict resolution,

but I think...

What I find it's largely missing

that is not missing in the body of Messiah,

is that the reason for conflict resolution

has to do with some holy and divine details.

Meaning one of the reasons Nicole,

when you and I have a fight and you know,

we have these bitter fights every day,

You and I.

(both chuckles)

Are you listening?

I love Nicole and I think she loves me.

So there hasn't been any kind of conflict,

if there were conflicts between us,

it has divine ramifications.

It actually places a stain

on the testimony of God, himself.

We are ambassadors for Messiah.

And therefore the way we relate with people,

the way we conflict with people

and the way we resolve those conflicts

actually speaks to the very character

and nature of God.

His own reputation and testimony are on the line.

In Judaism, there is a lot of teaching

and good teaching about practical ways

to resolve conflict.

And those,

(indistinct)

in those days between Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur,

which are given toward conflict resolution,

it's a big deal.

It's a very big deal.

And there's good training on how to do that.

But I think it lack,

I'm speaking personally now,

it lacks the kind of power

or inspiration that inspires me

to resolve conflict.

That compels me to resolve conflict

because I realize, wait a minute, this is more

than just me and you,

this is the corporate us.

And it's even bigger than the corporate us.

It's not only affecting the body.

It's actually shaming God.

And with that, even if I don't like you

and I don't want to talk to you

and I don't want to resolve this conflict

when I realize God's take on this

and it's impact on him,

then I'm compelled to do what's uncomfortable

to lay down my arms

and try to resolve this thing.

That is a distinct difference between rabbinic Judaism.

And if you will difficult Judaism or Christianity.

(upbeat music)

- [Nicole] Scott in light of what scripture

says about resolving conflict,

what are some strategies we can use

from the Bible to de-escalate a tense situation?

- [Scott] The Bible is just packed with practical advice.

What comes to mind is the proverb

that says a gentle word, turns away wrath.

It's a very simple concept,

but it's astounding how it's an equation

that always works.

Thinking of a friend, one of my Bible teachers,

who's now with the Lord.

But he tells a story of a time

that he and Bob was a very gentle, soft, spoken lovely man.

But he was out somewhere just walking

with one of his kids.

And this guy approached him who

had something against him.

And he's screaming.

I mean, screaming to the point

where there's a crowd gathering

thinking Bob there's going to be fisticuffs here,

You know?

And this guys yelling, he's sweating,

his face is red, he's just enraged.

And Bob walks right up to him

and looks him in the eyes

and says, "Sir, you must really, really be hurting,

aren't you?"

The man crumbled to the ground.

I mean, literally fell to the ground sobbing.

And in that moment,

Bob was able to pray with him

and actually lead him to faith in Yeshua.

It was a gentle word and it completely disarmed

the anger and the rage.

And that's an extreme example.

If you can genuinely respond to anger with gentleness.

In fact, that reminds me of another passage

it's in Galatians 6:1.

Galatians 6:1 addresses how

to approach someone who's overtaken in sin.

So they're caught.

This person is caught in the web of sin,

which usually means conflict.

The divine council that's given is this

you who are spiritual restore such a one

in a spirit of gentleness

considering yourself less you also be tempted.

First of all, we approach that person spiritually.

And by the way,

just a few verses before it explains who is spiritual.

It's one who walks in the spirit

and not in the flesh.

Number two,

you are to approach that person

with a view toward restoration, not toward judgment,

third, a spirit of gentleness,

and speaking of humility, of meekness of kindness.

And finally, this is a real big one,

considering yourself less, you also be tempted.

I find that when I'm angry at someone

I'm angry, because I recognize something in them

that is also in me.

And that's why that's the genius of this statement

considering yourself less, you also be tempted.

But once again, weakness is key.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer said these words,

the elimination of the week is the death of the fellowship.

What this is saying is you get rid of weakness,

you get rid of fellowship.

And I think you'll find that

wherever there is genuine community,

it is gathered around weakness.

This thing we call communion where we handle elements.

What are the elements of strength or weakness?

Weakness.

The elements that we handle in the Lord supper

are elements of shed blood and broken body.

And Jesus says, whenever you get together,

that's fellowship.

Whenever you get together,

whenever you commune want you to remember

that weakness, not strength.

I want you to remember my resurrection.

No, your communion is built around weakness.

And Nicole,

I think you would agree that the weakest moment

in the history of the cosmos

was God hanging dead on a tree,

but as a result of that weakness,

the entire world has come together.

You want to deescalate a tense situation,

come in with weakness and not with strength.

- [Nicole] Scott, I am literally crying here.

That was amazing.

What you said.

It reminded me of,

we have weekly chapels for headquarters

and we invite different people to speak.

And Robin who's on our staff in Israel.

She spoke a few months ago about forgiveness.

And she said she had recently done

a course about forgiveness

and how one of the points that she learned

was that it's acknowledging brokenness

and the brokenness of the person who hurt you.

I think when we get to that place,

where, when we see somebody who offended us

as another broken human being, who God loves

and who Jesus died for,

that really can change our perspective

on the whole situation.

And it kind of reminds us that our battle,

like it says in Ephesians is not

against flesh and blood,

but against powers and principalities.

(soft upbeat music)

How do we decide what is worth fighting for?

Because I think most of the things we fight about,

we should forgive, I would say

a lot of the things we fight about

if we really take a step back and evaluate

it may not be earth shattering or really important.

How do we know what is worth fighting for?

- [Scott] No one's ever asked me that.

That's such an interesting question.

Maybe this is a good time to bring up the fact

that some conflicts are actually necessary

and maybe even essential.

I'm thinking of 1 Corinthians 1,

and Paul is pleading with the Corinthians

and he says,

plead that there'd be no divisions.

You'd be perfectly joined together,

same mind, same judgment,

by the way, Margie and I have just moved

to Harpers Ferry, West Virginia,

which is the site of a number of historic civil war battles.

And there's a church near our home

called Battlefield Baptist.

- [Nicole] Oh, wow.

- [Scott] Anyway, Paul's heart is breaking

over their disunity,

but in the midst of his rebuke in chapter 11,

he says something that to me is absolutely jaw dropping.

And it relates to your question verse 19,

there must be factions among you.

In other words,

there must be conflicts among you

that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

Oh my goodness.

This to me is one of those moments

when God lifts the veil,

and gives us a peak into the holy Holies.

Paul's saying, I really want you guys to get along,

but I am not promoting unity at all costs.

In fact, he says,

disunity and conflict are actually necessary right now

at Battlefield Baptist, because these conflicts

are going to reveal something

that we wouldn't otherwise discover.

And that is who among you are

the unashamed qualified truth handlers.

Honestly, there's no fight worth fighting,

if you must do it in the flesh.

I think it's true that anything,

I'm fighting for regardless how righteous it appears,

if it's driven by self-centered goals,

the fight is simply not justifiable.

The only confident answer I can give you

to the question of what's worth fighting for

is honestly to meditate on what the holy spirit means.

When he tells us to fight the good fight of faith.

It requires conflict,

but in 1 Timothy 6 and elsewhere in 2 Timothy,

he says, I fought the good fight,

those are the fights worth fighting.

- [Nicole] Amen.

So Scott, we have one final question for you.

And the reason we wanted you to be our guest for this

episode is because you mentioned last time.

And you also earlier on this episode,

how you and your wife have been very intentional about

opening your home and cultivating community,

because you've realized the spiritual fruit

that it bears in your life.

So how has living in community shaped you personally?

- [Scott] Thank you for asking.

I heard someone say that the church

is much like peanut brittle.

It takes a lot of sweetness to hold the nuts together.

And I have to say without the community,

carrying me and burying down on me and encouraged me

and puling me and wounding me and healing me,

honestly, I would remain just

a self-centered newborn baby

in the Lord's sucking milk from a bottle.

There is simply no overstating,

the power of community dynamics

and being scrutinized.

I think Nicole, that's a big deal.

And I mentioned this when I told you

I had 60 people over the course of 10 years,

living with my wife and me,

and for the purpose of growing in the grace

and knowledge of the Lord.

That's, why we did this.

We needed help on our campground,

but we also needed help in growing up

and to have people, sometimes five at a time,

living in our little three bedroom home

with one bathroom and doing evangelism

and serving 200 people on the campground

and, you know, all kinds of things,

living life together and praying together

and being together, scrutinizing one another

and challenging one another.

It is so powerful in terms of disciple making.

I liken this whole thing,

If you have a community to a bicycle wheel,

can you picture a bicycle wheel right now?

You got the hub and you've got the spokes

and you've got the rim, right?

When you look at the wheel,

you see a bunch of very tense spokes

that are uniquely positioned.

Now they're going in every direction,

all this tension and diversity

is a really bad thing for the wheel.

No, it's a really good thing.

In fact, if there wasn't all this diversity and tension

that thing would implode.

It would crumple as soon as it was subject to pressure.

In other words, the tension

and the diversity are critical.

And the key to the success of that wheel

is that all of those spokes are fastened

to a single pierced hub.

I think the very same principle applies

to our relational spheres, community has held tensions

for some very good reasons.

It actually strengthens the integrity of our fellowship,

but the key to the success of spiritual community

is it that we remain fastened to our hub.

The pierced Messiah.

Colossians 1 tells us that in him,

everything is held together.

He's the integrity of the universe.

And as that,

we also beautifully illustrates

the closer all of us tense spokes get

to that central pierced hub.

The closer we get to one another as well.

(uplifting music)

- [Nicole] For through the grace given to me,

I say to everyone among you not

to think more highly of himself

than he ought to think,

but to think so as to have sound judgment,

as God has allotted to each measure of faith.

For just as we have many members in one body

and all the members do not have the same function.

So we who are many are one body in Messiah

and individually members,

one of another Romans 12:3-5.

We need each other, God created community on purpose.

And we get to experience both the joys

and hardships that come with that.

While conflict is never fun.

If we yield to God's spirit,

he can use moments of disagreement and tension

to ultimately make our relationships stronger

and produce spiritual fruit in our lives.

As followers of Yeshua let us remember

our collective purpose to be light in this world.

Jesus told us in John 13:35 by this all men will know

that you are my disciples,

if you have love for one another,

If you've enjoyed this episode,

please leave us a review on apple podcast

or rating on Spotify.

Let us know how this podcast has moved you.

We would also love if you can share

it on social media with your friends and family.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode

of Our Hope

featuring Scott Brown,

this episode was written by Rachel Larson

and edited by Grace Sweet.

This episode was also created thanks

to Dr. Mitch Glazer, Abe Vazquez, Kieran Bautista,

and Jann Bautista.

I'm Nicole Vacca until next time.

(uplifting music)

- [Abe] Thanks for listening to Our Hope.

If you like our show

and want to know more,

check out ourhopepodcast.com

or chosenpeople.com.

You can all also support our podcast

by giving today @ourhopepodcast.com/support.

See you next time.