Today, I'm joined by the fantastic Tracy McCubbin and our discussion is all about decluttering and organization, topics that resonate with us all. Tracy, the CEO of dClutterfly and author of "Making Space Clutter-Free" and "Making Space for Happiness," brings her expertise to the table, helping us conquer clutter in our lives and create room for positive change.

Tracy delves deep into the heart of clutter, uncovering its root causes and offering practical, actionable solutions. We explore how to manage clutter within a family, especially when everyone has different ideas of what an organized space should be. Tracy provides invaluable steps to prevent feeling overwhelmed during the decluttering process, encouraging gradual, meaningful changes.

The highlight of our conversation is Tracy's breakdown of the seven clutter magnets, the primary culprits behind our disarray. She also stresses the importance of establishing a sustainable home organization system that you can consistently rely on. Tracy's approach is refreshingly down-to-earth, empowering us to transform our homes without the pressure of discarding everything we own. If you crave a more peaceful and goal-aligned home, tune in!

What you'll hear in this episode:

[4:50] Decluttering and organizing with a focus on mental well-being.

[9:35] Filling emotional voids with consumerism vs. finding fulfillment without material possessions.

[12:55] Using data to inform spending habits and avoid impulse buys during holiday sales.

[17:50] Decluttering strategies and overcoming roadblocks.

[23:05] Decluttering and organizing for a smoother life.

[28:00] Balancing free play and organization for young children.

[30:50] Organizing household items and paperwork.

[36:40] Finding joy in personal belongings.

[42:35] Family heirlooms.

[45:45] What about sentimental items?

CONNECT WITH TRACY

Follow Tracy: @tracy_mccubbin

To learn more about Tracy's amazing services, check out her website: https://www.dclutterfly.com/

Books By Tracy: https://www.dclutterfly.com/books-by-tracy

CONNECT WITH KELSEY

Follow Kelsey: @thisiskelseysmith

Follow Momma Has Goals: @mommahasgoals

Download the app for Apple or Android

Learn more at https://thisiskelseysmith.com/

Join our text list. Text "Goals" to (707) 347-0319

Speaker 1 0:00

I have always been interested in this idea of why we shop, right? Like, why do we buy? Why do we consume, it's always been really fascinating to me. So I started to study the science of shopping. And, and along with that, I've always been interested in the science of happiness, what are the things you can do to hack your happiness or their actual behaviors, and they just dovetailed and when I saw is that people were using shopping to fill all these parts of themselves that they thought was missing. And guess what? It doesn't.

Kelsey Smith 0:34

Speaker 1 2:59

Kelsey Smith 4:58

Yeah, I love that because a system doesn't mean anything if you just set it up and you don't keep using it like anything in life, not just organization. But I have been guilty of that. And I will you know, most recently, I feel like and I'd love your opinion on this, when everyone was kind of home during COVID. And there was this real big spike of okay, I'm going to do these things in my house, I'm going to, you know, get a bunch of clear boxes and labels, and I'm going to organize in this way. How, since you've been in the business for much longer than that, what's your perspective on that? Was there this spike during COVID? Or did it just feel that way to other people on the outside?

Speaker 1 5:36

It just felt that way. What really spiked in COVID? Is everybody over shopped. Everybody just shopped like bananas, like, towers and towers and packages. And, you know, we look like we were organizing, and we felt like we were gonna have all this free time, but especially if you had kids home, like you were you can, I don't know where people thought that COVID was like just a vacation. If you were debt, you know, Zoom schooling, your kids are pod schooling, your kids are homeschooling, your kids are trying to figure out how to cook and Wes and people did not organize as much as they said they did or the news articles that they did. Yeah. And also, guess what, that's okay. We were dealing with so much. That's one of the things that they say in this, especially to my mom client. Like, you have to find a way, you know, organizing is a part of caring for your house, it's organizing, it's decluttering. And cleaning, right, those are your house tasks. And you have to find a way to fit them in, but you also feeding your family, nourishing your families, your families, those are more important. So I always like to just let people let themselves off a hook a little bit, and how can you get it? How do you get your house sold works as opposed to looks? I don't even know what I don't even know what perfect means anymore. But we all have this idea. This is a soapbox. I'd love to get on. And we'll just dive in. And people come at me for this. But I think labeling laundry rooms is the decanting and labeling laundry supplies is ridiculous. Just ridiculous, like a colossal waste of time. First of all, it's not safe. Because yeah, the way that it looks like candy. And so you're gonna have a kid go in there. Second of all, why? Why are you going to put pretty bins and labels in your laundry room? It makes no sense to me. I'm a very practical like, how do we make your house work? And look, if you love it, if you get your yards by labeling, knock yourself out. I personally think it's a waste of time.

Kelsey Smith 7:35

Yeah. And I love that just last part there because there are people and I can be guilty of this and other rooms where that brings them joy. They're like, Oh, I see this label, I see this container. And this makes me feel good. But we have a huge portion of our community that is carrying guilt because they saw someone else get joy from that. And they're like, my pantry doesn't look that way. My laundry room doesn't look that way. So I must be a hotness, I must not be good enough. Or I must be doing it wrong. And I love that you're saying that's not true. That is not the case. Yeah. And you know, there's that part of decluttering. But you also I just want to get into more kind of like the bigger picture. So you talk about the seven clutter magnets, I want to break those down. And what that is because that's a little more broad. And then we can get into what decanting in each of those areas.

Speaker 1 8:24

Great. So the clutter magnets. It's super interesting. You know, as we talked about, when when COVID started, we were really we were over shopping and I have always been interested in this idea of why we shop, right like why do we buy why do we consume it's always been really fascinating to me. So I started to study the science of shopping. And and along with that, I've always been interested in the science of happiness, what are the things you can do to hack your happiness or their actual behaviors, and they just dovetailed and when I saw is that people were using shopping to fill all these parts of themselves that they thought was missing. And guess what? It doesn't work. You know that when you shop, you get a little hit of dopamine and you're like, Oh, I feel better for 17 to 22nd and then it doesn't you don't feel better anymore. You're like I must have to shop more to get that feeling. So what the clutter magnets are, they're these stories literally. These like parts of ourselves that we think are missing. I always imagined that they're like a little puzzle piece kind of out of our soul. And we're trying to magnetize stuff to get in. You know, so it's everything from you know, true connection like when we're feeling lonely. Do you find yourself shopping? You know, are you shopping late at night because you you know you don't have connection and you're a stay at home mom and you just see your kids and you're not getting your community. You know to Big Love Are you buying things to get your kids to learn? Have you you know, do you feel like you have, you have to get them gifts all the time, grandparents are the worst about this. They need self respect, you know, are you buying labels and clothing with labels and, you know, makeup and all this stuff to get your self respect or your self confidence? And you know, I think one of the things that comes up a lot from my mom clients to especially the ones who choose to be stay at home moms, is what's their purpose? A lot of women when they're wrestling, is my purpose to be a mom, is that enough for me? Am I a bad mom? If it's not enough for me, let me like buy you know, let me I see this weirdly come up with crafting supplies, for sort of moms are like, I'm a stay at home mom and I should have all this extra time. First of all, I don't know where you think you're going, you know, I can barely there's two of us in our house. And we're adults, and I can't keep up on it. But you know, it's like sort of buying all this crafting because well, this is my purpose. I'm going to hand make all my kids Chris, you know, Christmas ornaments. And yeah, so these magnets, seven of them. It's what we're trying to fill with stuff. And so in my book make space for happiness. I like to talk about how can you get that same fulfillment without stuff?

Can you give us one of those we want to make sure will link both your books down below in the show notes. But give us something today that they could implement if they're sitting there listening. And they're like, Wow, I do that, like I'm looking for those puzzle puzzle pieces, I'm filling them with stuff. What's one way they could make a shift today, this

is my favorite one. This is such if you can just in it, this, the change you will see is unbelievable. Stop saying I need before you shop, stop saying I need a new pair of leggings. I need a new water bottle, I'm gonna I'm gonna bet that you don't, I'm gonna bet you don't need new leggings. I know for sure we don't need new water models, we've all got a million of them. So switch your word to just say I want a new pair of leggings. I want a new water bottle. And then it takes that like grip it has off of you. You're like, Oh, I just want it. And oftentimes when that happens, the want goes away, you're like, Oh, I was just mad at my husband or my kids were annoying me. And that's why I thought a pair of leggings. So if you could just switch your language, just switch your language about need versus one is a great one. Another one might other really favorite is if you want to make a purchase, and you can set your number I say $100 Some people say 50. So let's say we're gonna name it $50, wait 24 hours for every $50 that cost before you. So don't be in the moment, you know, social with social media, we're being marketed to all the time that these things are going to fix our problems. And they make their own problems. So if you want to make a purchase, then wait 24 hours.

Yeah, it's so not needed in that moment, even though that you think it is. And I have heard people play the other side of this though, like what's on sale and the sale ends during this time. And I would love to get your feedback on that. I know for me personally, when I look at that I'm saving like $2. But I would love to I would love to this is great.

This sale conversation is my favorite. If it's something that you'd end by the way, everybody buckle up, because we've got prime days coming up. We've got Cyber Monday, we've got Black Friday, we've got after holiday sales coming out as if it's something that you need, and you have been waiting for it and it goes on sale. It makes sense. But if it's just something that you're buying, because it's on sale, you don't That doesn't matter. You know, when I also joke all the time, if everything's on sale, nothing's on sale. Yeah. Yeah. And as all these sales come at us, I telling people do your homework and be intentional about your spending, what's your budget for the holidays? What's your budget, and you know, I'll give a great example, we are about to need a new Vitamix. We use it all the time. My husband has repaired it. It is like the guy my little guys hanging on. And I'm like, You know what, this is where I'm going to look for on Prime days. Is it a real bargain? But I think that thing of Oh, it's just on sale. So you're still spending the money. And so do you need it? And I think oftentimes, when we lean really into that kind of buy in the sale, there's something else going on, there's something else inside of us we're trying to sell.

I love that you bring that piece back to the psychology and your purpose and knowing and what puzzle pieces are you filling? Because it is looking at that and saying what else should I be doing in this moment? What am I avoiding? And why am I looking to fill it here? And you know, using your Vitamix as an example that exactly like that there are things that maybe you need, you know, and it's better to buy it at that rate. But I know there was a lot of conversation this last Prime Day about how prices just go up. And then they go back to really what they typically are. So maybe it's even like right now, as you're listening to this, you think of that one too, I would say, hopefully no more than five things that you're like I need, and writing down what their prices are today. And then seeing if they're any less Is that like the best method to kind of?

Fantastic, let's say, Yeah, let's say there's five things you want, or, you know, five things you're thinking about for holiday gifts. What do they cost write down today that that's a two set, you know, that's a 32nd, internet search, and make a little note. And then you can say, Oh, this really is a deal. Another thing, this is like, extra credit homework, and people want to do it. But another thing you can do, you can run a spending report from Amazon, who takes a little bit to find like, they don't like to send you there. But you can run a monthly spending report. And I like people to do that. And then go through and check our highlight. Was this a want or a need? Was this a want? Or and then you start to understand like, Oh, those are just neat wants, I just wanted that. What was going on with me that day that I did it that I bet.

So let's unpack that a little more. Because that could lead to some shame that could lead to some self sabotage, how do you use out his data and information to move forward and not just sitting in that, oh, my gosh, I spent X number of dollars that I shouldn't.

Change comes when you change your behavior, right? Real change, change your behavior. And when you have data to support why that change is good, right? Like, we know, we need six to eight hours, I need eight plus, I have since I was little right sleep at night. So I know all the data has shown science that scrolling on my phone till two in the morning is not good. So I acknowledge Yes, I've done it in the past. And I also realized it wasn't good for me doing it. I felt terrible. I was tired all the time. You know, we're so quick to beat ourselves up. But it doesn't beating ourselves up doesn't make us change. You know, focusing and this is important. And it ties into this, you know, when people are starting on their decluttering journey, the first thing that I have them do is why? Why do you want to declutter, and you can't say, oh, I'm lazy, or I'm a bad housekeeper. Those are not wise, those are judgment, those don't count. I want my kids to be able to get themselves dressed in the morning without my help. I want you to be able to use that extra room so grandma can come and stay and babysit, if pick a why that is a positive that's going to benefit your life. That's the reason for it. Yes, you did. We can't go back and change the path. We can only change what we're doing forward taking any kind of that data. Oh, okay. I spent a lot on Amazon. I'm carrying more debt credit card debt than I'd like to these were the behaviors that led up to it. That doesn't work anymore.

Yeah. So when I think about decluttering, I kind of think of it in two buckets. And one is how do I get to baseline? How do I get myself cleaned up? And then how do I sustain whatever I want to create? I'd love for you to talk a little bit about good habits and strategies to get to a place of breathing. If you're in a place that you're like in complete overwhelm. And you just need to start kind of picking things. How can you take action on that? And then maybe you're not in overwhelm, or now you've gotten back to your baseline? What are some daily habits, that

decluttering organizing and cleaning are three separate tasks. A lot of people, especially moms are like trying to get things together at the end of the day, mush them together, it's just not possible. They're three very separate tasks. Yeah, cleaning needs to happen more often. Right? That's what you have to do more often. Once you get decluttered organizing is really just putting things back where they belong in the homes you've decided for them. And then decluttering that kind of step you do before so once people understand because where a lot of people get tripped up is they try and do all three at once. And they're very separate tasks. I also think I like to tie the big declutters like around the season okay, we're at then you know, summer's over kids are back in school. Let's do let's get rid of the bathing suits that don't fit anymore. That empty bottles of sunscreen. Let's do it. Let's get rid of that stuff that I know they won't use next next year. So I like to tie it around the seasons. holidays are coming you know before birthdays. Do you do a pass of the playroom because you know more toys are coming. And then I also really encourage people to have a weekly decluttering that just once a week you take 15 Half an hour and just go around take a closet, take your drawer and just make it regular because the stuff doesn't stop coming in. Yeah, the staff does he enjoyably

though, because he even I'm listening to you say that and I'm like, Okay, so once a week I walk in, I walk in into my closet or the playroom, like then once I'm standing there, like how am I making the decision of what actual action to take, like, how am I deciding what I'm doing? That's great. So

I'll just say one thing, too. I have all my social media. And I think we'll link to that I have five minute decluttering challenges, and they're so specific, and they're so fantastic. And they're literally like, you're going to do socks, that's all you're going to do is socks, you're going to do coffee mugs, you're going to do your pen cup, and they're so fine grain. And for people who are juggling a lot or don't know where to start, that's super successful. Because sometimes when you see the whole room, like you said, Okay, I'm standing in the middle of my playroom. And I'm like, I don't know where to start. Yeah, so sometimes, if you can break it down to Okay, today, I am just going to focus on games that we've lost the pieces of that no one can play. I'm just going to start there. So sometimes, if you can really break it down, specifically. It's very successful. Yeah.

Okay. Love that. so helpful. So using that same like concept of breaking down and doing little spaces and going back to the Getting to the baseline versus the daily activity, right. So is that challenge framework on your social media? Looking at those? Is that good? Regardless of what bucket you're in? If you're like, I'm trying to Yeah, I have so many recipes, like,

totally, I've so many people that DM me and say I did the five minutes and all sudden I've done my whole house. Yeah. So it is crafted to include the whole house. So if you can follow it, and I've got there's a playlist with them. And I can Oh, yeah, it's great. And so if you're really also, the nice thing about them is if you're, look, first of all, very few people wake up in the morning and be like, I want to declutter today I do. But I'm, you know, that's what I do for business. So if you have these little five minute, this woman focused on it, I don't have to worry about anything else I'm gonna do. You know, I'm gonna do my coffee. That's what I'm focused on. And then all of a sudden, not only are you success, not only can you get it done, which is the most important thing, but you also get you get your muscle working for it. You're like, oh, this is what it feels like. Oh, okay, great. Let me tackle this. Let me tackle bras, Let me tackle the kids socks, Let me tackle pool toys. And they're so specific, that they really set you up for success.

I love that. So there's things that can get in our way, right? So I think if we're like on this decluttering journey, and I think, oh, roadblock that's gonna stop us from success, whether it's this challenge or anything out. And one of those things can be the people we share our home with. And so how if someone goes, they download this challenge, they're running around, they're like, oh, my gosh, I love Tracy and knocking things out left and right. But the home isn't onboard. What do you do?

That's great. So I like to I joke I recent is, today's my six month wedding anniversary, I just got married six months ago. Thank you. And I like to joke that the universe have handed me the most amazing man who's also messy. He's so messy. He's clean, cleans, the kitchen does everything but very messy. So I am living this in a way that I've never lived it. And the first to start in this goes back to what you brought up about shame that a lot of people who are cluttery have a lot of clutter have been shamed about it their whole, right. And so what I want what I was saying, start with a conversation about not your ways wrong and my ways, right, but talk about how being decluttered and organized is going to benefit the community or the home. Right. So for my husband, when I first met him, he lost his keys all the time, all the time. And I was like, there was a pole. This is where keys go. Took a bit. You're gonna lose his keys anymore. I'm like, This is why you're not like yelling Annamaya why are we doing this again, it's like, keys in bowl. When you need bolt keys. They're in the bowl. So having the conversation about how this is going to benefit the community. And I'm telling you, it is never too easy early to start this conversation kid. Yeah. Because, you know, what you're really doing in helping them be organized is setting them up for success and independence. Yeah, so it's if your closet is organized, you know when even if that means that all your T shirts are in a drawer and they just aren't even folded but there at least in one drawer, then you can go you might child can go and get dressed on your own. But if you can point out, you know where why the success of the worst like every parent's worst conversation is where's my high? You know, so if you put all of your stuffies here in this basket when you want to stuffy, you know where to get it and they catch up on really quick. Like I See the success? So it is very hard. And I think it's about, for a lot of us the way we're having the conversation, especially with our partner, you're wrong. And I'm right. Yeah, it's just I want to make our family, I want our life to run smooth. I don't want to have this conversate you know, I want to park our car in the garage, can we declutter the garage, so I can park my car in there, you know, really focusing on the positive outcome instead of the way that they're doing wrong. And then also kind of understanding. My husband has a room in his office in our house, I don't go in there. I just kidding. I don't go in there. I don't bug him about it. That is his base. We are lucky enough to have that. But I do not go in there.

Yeah. I love that you bring that up, because that is what's coming to my mind, though, is I'm thinking about, you know, there's there are benefits. And I think this is I'm going to say this is scientifically proven, but I don't know. But I believe there's probably like, some science behind like, knowing where things are, and how that affects your nervous system and your daily activities. And what that looks like, if that's like a factual benefit, but someone's not seeing that, or they don't like your way they don't like the clear bin or the bowl, they want to have, you know, hooks instead of a bowl, or how do you have some of those conversations to figure out what's right for your family?

Sure. One of it is to kind of implement it on a simple system. Because I've been doing this for 17 years, I dealt with every kind of person. And after we worked, I've never had someone say I preferred it the other way. I liked it. I liked it messy, you know that if you can do it in a smaller scale, and they're like, oh, you know, oh, that's where I go to look for that. And that's where it is. And they feel that relief that they're not running around. I had a client who's has been loved papers, loved articles, cutting them out, loved them, and was a writer and use it for research. And so I helped create a whole system of like, boxes in his office. And you know, she called me up when they sent me a text and she said, created this whole system. So he had places to put everything. Yeah, they were cleaning up the house getting ready for dinner party. And she was like, all these papers. He's Oh, no, I know where they go. And he scampered out and put them in his office. And she texted me, she's I have never been more attracted to my husband, you know, but showing, you know, putting systems in a simpler form so that they can see the success. And they can see that it makes their life easier. Because, yes, clutter causes stress they do. The science is there. That means there's no arguing it they have done. So they so many studies on it. And it really affects women in women who live in cluttered houses have a higher cortisol level, which is our fight or flight and not good for us. So that the science is there, your brain can only process so much information. And there's also this very interesting thing. I don't know if you've talked about it on here, called decision fatigue, if you talked a little

bit, but I'd love to dive into Yeah, so I see

every piece of cloud, everything in your house is a decision that has to be made. Do I want it? Do I use it? Where do I keep it? So the more things you have, the more decisions you have to make, the more decisions you have to make. It just kicks you into decision fatigue. On top of the fact that you're like, What is my family eating for breakfast? What is my family eating for lunch? What is my family having for snacks? When do I have you know, your are ready as a mom in decision, we're all in decision. Fatigue, but and then you add this other level. So when you take stuff away, you don't have to make a decision about it.

Yeah. So this other thing comes up in my brain, I'm just thinking my boys are foreign to they're a little bit younger. And I have tried to create good systems for their toys, and some days are better than others. But I do have this kind of fear that I'm going to create this all almost like an inability to just play and not worry about where things go and where they're organized and allow them to just have fun and be a kid and not too worried about putting things away. Now, that could be real or not. But I'd love to get your opinion on it, of just like how do you help implement good systems with kids with also not creating, you know, our kids this day and age, they have so many stresses, they have so many things once they get in school that they have to worry about and get their homework done in their schedule. And sometimes there is a part of me as a parent where like, I don't want to give them one more thing they have to do. But I also know it's going to help them operate in a more efficient manner. So how do you kind of balance that, that it's

Kelsey, that's so great. And that's so admirable to be thinking that way? You know, I think that it's I really think what it is because I have dealt with the people who are the extreme and Tom was out and put that you know, that you like play time is play time and you all can go bananas and free play, but we clean up at the end And we put things away. And the reason we put them away is that when we want them tomorrow, we know where they are. You know, when I know, I know, that's easier said than done. And sometimes you're just but you know if you can slowly interject and put Yes, you do, you have to let them have free play time. And they have to not be worried about breaking things, or you're mixing it up. And, you know, in sometimes it looks like, yeah, would it be great that the crayons and the markers and the pencils are all in three different things, of course, but maybe it just needs to be a bit of writing implements. Maybe that's easiest for your family. So be careful, because you do want them to express themselves. But I think you're, you know, you're right. And by the way, I don't know if your kids are in preschool, but I see you know, people are like, Oh, my kids can't, I'm like, they do it at preschool

yet. Our preschool is pretty darn organized with where the kids cleaned up, and they put things away.

And it's a part of it. And the kids like, yeah, you know, the kids just do it. So if you do that same saying, like, now's our cleanup time, and let's spend 10 minutes before, you know dinner. And, and if you really lean into, if you clean up, it means you know where to find it tomorrow, if you can draw that thing, like you really want to play with your you know, your Legos or your Duplo or you know, this is then you'll know where to find it. So when you can draw the correlation of when it's put away, then you know where to find it instead of this is just something we do and they're they're smart. And they're logical. And they're like, Oh, you're right, you know, and then sometimes you just let them out in the yard, you're like, oh, just make a mess.

I love that. And it does need to have that balance. And tying it back to this is so you can find it. It's not because I want you to follow mom's rules. It's because then you know where your toys are. And you don't get upset when you can't find that specific car tomorrow, or whatever it is. I absolutely love that. Now I know with younger kids and maybe even teenagers, I actually feel like there's kind of like an overlap there. Sometimes teenagers are toddlers. Yeah, in different ways. I and I'm just thinking about organization systems with mine and the women in our community. Sometimes it's not about saying, okay, the red car goes here. But all the cars go in this box. And like you said, the writing utensils, it's not markers, pencils all separated, it's having the box. I think that applies to a lot of families in a lot of different ways. So can you give us a couple examples on how you could implement that into different spaces in your house? If you don't have a bucket for everything? How you could kind of start with one section of something. Are there a couple things? Yeah, definitely. And it's so stressful for people? Is there something in the kitchen that applies to so many?

I think the first blush that when you look at it is, you know, be careful that you're not over organizing, right? That's very, and this will just full circle back to what we started talking about pantries did those decanted pantries look beautiful? Sure. But there's so much work, there's so much work. And a lot of the people that buzz on social media have full time staff have helped that do it. So really, you know, I always see this done is better than perfect. You know, there are things that like, I it's not going to be as fine grained as I would like, because I'm raising children, this is what it's going to be you know, I give this great example, I have so many when I was first starting, I had a mom that was like, I keep my hair brushes and sunscreen and the kid is sunscreen in the kitchen as well. That doesn't make any sense. And I was around her house. I was like, Oh, that makes perfect sense, right? Because then while they're sitting down eating breakfast, she can slather it on and comb their hair. So I think that's the thing is be careful that you don't have these expectations. And you're doing to fine grain of Oregon. Yeah, because that's what's going to trip you up. And especially in the kitchen. This is the little compartment for measuring and this and maybe that's like, what that looks like in implementing it is that you have a drawer. That is the plastic measuring cups and the things that the plastic bowls that the kids can play with when they're in and out. And maybe it's not perfectly organized, but they know where that is when they help you cook. So I think where a lot of moms and a lot of people that sometimes they're just trying to make too fine grain of a system and it's hard to implement and hard to keep up.

Is there a system? I think the most common thing I hear is paperwork. People have mail paperwork from school items. Is there one or two kind of tricks that could help that? Yep.

So first thing is I got a bunch for this paper paperwork is my jam. The first thing is, you go from the mailbox to the recycle bin. You don't let that stuff down. Don't even let it get in the house. Right half of it is like Costco mailers and just things you're not ever going to look at. That's if it goes in the right Recycle Bin. That's a 32nd 15 second stop. Next up is the shredder and it's the credit card offers all those things get shredded. So right there, you have gotten your mail down to your actionable items. Yeah. So that like getting rid of all that don't go more than three days without dealing with your mail, that's when it's going to add up. And then, you know, one of the things that we have to remember is that we have to build in, I call it the admin of being an adult, right? There's an admin, we have to do like insurance claims and paying this and, you know, so oftentimes, when paperwork is out of control, because one over retention, people aren't keeping too much, and two, people aren't budgeting in the time to run their life. So when you're like, Okay, I need two hours on Wednesday to pay bills, call the insurance companies sit on hold, that you've got a schedule in that admin time, and that's going to help you stay on top of the paperwork. And you know, it just needs it all. It also needs to be in one place. So is it an Is it a basket? Is it an inbox? Is that where do those papers go through? Because we go back to Kelsey, when I need to find it? Where does it? Yes? Would it be fantastic to have you know, flippy file folders that are like each kid and each kid's, you know, permission slip and lunch menu? That? Sure, but maybe it's just one basket and all that and you're like, at least I know, it's in there somewhere? That's okay, that works. So where it lives is directly tied to when you need to find it. Where is it? And you know, it's a matter of training the kids, maybe it's a basket on the kitchen counter or in the mudroom, so that when they come home, drop your papers.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I love that. Now, before we click to record, we quickly brought up how just there's different solutions for different people. And we've unpack that a little bit on here. And that's truly what mama has goals is about is finding the right resource for whatever it is that you need. But there was a period of time where there was a lot of buzz around this specific organizer, and this method of finding joy in your items. And you have a different opinion. And I'd love to break that down a little bit and just kind of hear why that method may not work for some people. So I just want to hear Yeah,

you know, was sparking joy. Everyone knows who we're talking about. By the way, I will point out that about six months ago, after her third child, she came out said I just gave up. I don't know if you saw that. But she I didn't. That's good to know. She just had I just gave up. And you know, I think her giving up is that, you know, I think that I think her method is great. And it started a very important conversation. And I think coming from her religion and her cultural background. I think it's over simplified for a lot of people. Because first of all, like there are tools that aren't like, my toilet brush does not give me joy, but I need it. Right. I don't so like I would get stumped there. There's sentimentality. There's, you know, I might need it someday. I think it's I think it's oversimplified. I think it was a fantastic entry point. I think it was a great conversation. But I really think for a lot of people, it's just too simple. It's just too simple. We're, it's so much more complicated than that. And, you know, I am, and I'm sure so many of your listeners are part of the sandwich generation, right? They've got young kids and aging parents, and what do you do as a parents stuff that's coming in, and I just feel it's a field for a lot of people. It's over simplified. And I wrote my first book, making space clutter free about that, like, it was a reaction. I was like, This is too simple. It's yeah, it doesn't work for everybody. And look, if it works for you, great. But a lot of people are like, stuck, like, yeah, you know, and so I think it's, as we know, as humans in our in our personal development journey, as many tools as you have in your toolbox. Gray Matter. Yeah. And you need

it, pull around when you need to get with that when I was watching that show, where I could see myself maybe utilizing parts of it, but also getting stuck both is my closet. And so I'd love to use like our closet as an example. And especially women, most of us our bodies have changed over 10 years, especially if we've had children we don't typically I'm definitely not the same size I was when I started college, you know, type of thing. But there's this idea of, oh, maybe my body will change back this way or for that specific event. Even I will need that item for that event. But I'm not going to go to that event for another two years or whatever it is. How do you find the balance between decluttering your closet, finding joy and keeping those items where does that apply when it comes to clothing?

This is great. First of all, I don't want anyone we're gonna this seems to be it's a great theme in this podcast. Shame, right? I don't want anyone keeping anything in their closet that makes them have shame. You know this idea like you said, like I've had kids I am not what I wasn't College I've been through menopause like, I'm never getting back, like, the weirdest thing happened. But my ribs expanded. Like, they just, they're not going back. So I think this idea of being stuck in the past and maybe I'm gonna get back there someday, then you're looking backwards and you're not looking forwards, like you're here today and you're living a life. And I just think that's that. I don't know it just I don't want you feeling bad. So I want your closet to be full of clothes that you wear, and that you love and accepting. You might not get back there and that's okay. You're a human. There's something called gravity. Forget weight gain. There's actual gravity. I don't know if you've seen the I don't know how. But there's a some videos going around right now where women are walking up to a door jamb? Have you seen this where it looks like they're doing the height of their kids, but it's really how their breasts are falling? It just makes me laugh. I'm like, oh, yeah, there we are. I'm there. So I think it's one looking at those. Here's where I am. Now. Here's where my body is today. It may stay here. So let's have that. Let's have clothes in our closet that we wear. Now, sometimes. And I just did this myself full disclosure. I had a lot of pairs of skinny jeans. And they're so cute. And they, but they're not in right now. But I'm like, Yeah, I put them in a bin or my garage will save skinnies come back. Right? You can take a little half measure. And also just this idea of some day, I might need that for you know, look, unfortunately, does everyone need a black funeral dress? Yeah, we need something appropriate to wear like that stays in your closet, I have a skirt and a blouse. And they just that's what they are. But if you're living in the fantasy, maybe someday, I might. Also if you look at our behavior, a big event comes your best friend gets married 10 You're gonna go buy something. Right? Yeah, so I think it's looking at your closet, that it's not a place of shame. It's not all these things that are, you know, feel like you're they're mocking you and you can't wear them anymore. What are you wearing today? Yeah, what are you wearing today, and that's great. And embrace it. I see this a lot too, with women who used to work and then chose choose to be stay at home moms are working in different you know, it's that was my work clothes. And it's okay, you're not doing that anymore. I might go back to the office or like, I'm going to pay you if you go back to the office, you are not wearing these clothes from your post college job. Like, yeah, you know. So I think it's really making sure that the things in your closet are inducing.

Yeah. Okay, you bring up a couple thoughts for me first is when you go to get rid of those clothes, there can be this tide of money. And I think maybe with older parent, you can see some of that too. And if you didn't grow up with exponential income, you are maybe like, Yeah, but I paid for that. And now I'm just going to donate it. How do you overcome that part of it?

Great. So great. You know, if you've paid for something, and you're not using it, you're still wasting that money. Right? That's that is the fact you bought something that you don't use, your money's still wasted. So again, it's that not like, you know, Brene Brown says it right? Shame. Guilt is I did a bad thing. Shame is I'm a bad person. You're like, I made a mistake. I bought this bounce. I never wore them. Guess what? I'm human having a human experience. So I think that you know, when look, if it's if you are in a position where that makes a lot of difference? Can you try and recoup some of it, maybe sell it? There's a lot of outlets for that. You know, there's a whole movement of people wearing secondhand clothes, which is just fantastic. Yeah. So there is that? So yes, you did pay money. But if you don't wear it, it doesn't matter what you pay. It does not. So I think that's something that people just have to get real with and be like, Yeah, great, I made a mistake. Turns out, I'm human.

I love that. And I love that you brought up boxing up your skinny jeans, if there's certain things that you're not ready to get rid of yet, you're still getting them out of that one space. So you're giving yourself that clarity. And I have a couple of things I've boxed up. And I was literally just talking to my husband, I was like, you know, I should probably just donate that box because I haven't opened it in two years. So the fact that I haven't opened it in two years means I don't probably need whatever's in there for clothing items. And that brings me to another thought, you know, I'm thinking of a couple things that we've kept of my husband's from when he was really involved in sports. And it's something that we talk about a lot that we're not actually keeping it for him, but we think it would be fun maybe for our kids one day to see parts of it, but I also know the real reality that they may really not care. And also though if we get rid of those things, we can't get them back. So what is kind of the balance of keeping things from like your own childhood to kind of have this fun because we're pretty family oriented people and I love seeing some things from my family's past. But there's a limit. So how do you kind of incorporate that?

This is great. I love this. So when I use my own life is this when I was little my grandparents lived. I grew up in California, my grandparents lived in Wisconsin, once your I would go visit them. And it's some of my most vivid memories. They had a tiny little toy box, toy chest of my mom's toys. And I loved it hadn't a couple of my mom's prom dresses, and I wore around the house got stains on it. I loved it. But it was a very reasonable amount. Right? It was it they had an attic. It was one toy chest. My grandpa would bring it down. So I think it's not about I love keeping those things. And I do. Kids love it. And they love to hear the stories. But it's about volume. You don't have to keep everything. If everything is special, nothing special. Yeah, right. So can you say and I say this a lot to to my empty nesters, you get to make a grandma box, you got to make a box or two of things that when if and when you have grandkids are going to want to play with, but it's about where does it live? Do you have the space to store it? Is it stored safely? Like when people say I'm saying this for my kids and I'm like it's just all over the place shoved up in a closet in the laundry room. You don't even remember that it's up there. And but if you're like we have two bins, one is my husband's sports thing that they're gonna love to see. You know, one is my one is mine, or, you know, this is what we have space to that it's mindful, it's intentional. It the labeled and when they're ready for it that you know where to get it. So that's the thing. It's okay, we want to sit you've been mindful, you've been like, this is the stuff we're gonna say. And this is where it lives. And this is where I know where to go and find it. And I think that's great. You know, the big conversation that everybody's been having also lately is yearbooks. Do you keep your books? Everybody's on Facebook? Is it just a yearbook now? Yeah, like I have a couple kids I you know, grown up now. But people I grew up with who are historians, and they play separate. I'm like, I don't need to keep that anymore. Because it's up Erica Washington. Bless her. It's like up there. You know, I think that's the thing, but I do love I am with you know, I am not. Let's wipe out history. I'm terribly sentimental, but it's about volume.

I love that. Okay, you've given us so many goodies. And I know for me personally, I'm heading straight to your Instagram to find the challenges and start there. And if you're really like, I want to go deep, and I want to go in girl gonna link both the books below as well. But for the woman that's listening, that's okay. This is great. Yes, I need to declutter, yes, I want to implement some of these things. But they're just not maybe going to take action, they're going to get off of this and life is going to happen. What would you tell her? And what would you recommend to like, really pursue whatever it is that they need in their life to really create, as you say, that space for more happiness?

The first thing I would say is get clear about why you want to do it. Are you doing it for you? And real goals? Are you doing because everyone's telling you to do it? Right? If you're like, my house isn't working, I can't get my kids dressed in the morning. I can't get myself like my house isn't working. I need to do this to get my house working and what will I gain? What's the positive outcome and once you get clear with that, all of a sudden the shame floats away and shoulda woulda coulda as and you're like, This is a goal. And I always tell people start with my five minute challenges. You can go to my email on my website, and I'll send them to you in a PDF. They're all over Instagram, they're on my YouTube channel. Like, just start with those. They're so easy, and they're so positive and it's just start and see if it works. And Tracy

remind everyone where they can find you the best places to go.

Absolutely is Instagram, I'm at Tracy underscore McCubbin. Type in chasing the covenant comes up. That's my biggest platform. Tracy mccubbin.com You can sign up for my newsletter. There's lots of you know, my events are coming up there and then I just started so they were calling to Tracy where I'm sending text messages with little videos to your phone three days a week. Monday, it's a challenge Wednesdays it's a check in and Friday, I'm answering people's specific question, which everyone I the amount of DMS I get, I just can't. So it's been really great. So if you go to my Instagram profile, the link to sign up is there. It's 499 a month but you can try it for seven days for free. And people are really it's just a little bit wait to have more access to me and go a little bit.

I love that. And you know when you told me that for the first time I said that is great for this community because it'll keep you on track each week and give you bite sized action steps that you can just implement each week one at a time. So absolutely love that last question I have for you Tracy, you just got married. You've had this successful business you have these two books. What is a goal that you have right now? What is something that you're working on?

I want to learn I want to relearn to surf again. I gave up a surfed a. a surf for many years and gave it up when the business got successful and I want to relearn I am committed to relearning to serve.

I love that amazing if you are in Southern California and you have any surfing resources

now, yes, please. Thank you. I went so far as I brought my I got my surfboard out of the rafters. So I'm feeling good. And I tried on my wetsuit, which doesn't fit anymore, so I let it go and I have to get

a new one. There you go. I love that. And now somebody else is gonna get that used wetsuit and they're gonna be able to take on their dream. So I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for being here, Tracy. So many good takeaways today.

Thank you, Kelsey. Have a great day.

Sometimes the smallest acts of love is all a mom needs to feel reinvigorated. If you can relate to that I feel so supported by your five star rating in written review. Take a moment and let me know what you thought about this episode.