Megan Wimberley hosts a heartfelt discussion with Maddie Mutter, highlighting the challenges and triumphs of being a working artist and mother during Women's History Month. The main focus of their conversation revolves around how Maddie successfully juggles her burgeoning art career while raising her four young children. She shares insights on the realities of her daily life, the intentionality behind her art practice, and how motherhood has influenced her creative process. Maddie’s experiences reflect the broader narrative of women today, emphasizing the uniqueness of motherhood while building a business. Through their chat, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the complexities faced by women artists and the importance of support systems in both family and creative endeavors.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Cowgirl Artists of America
2. CGA
3. Mark Sternberg
4. Cowgirls: Women of Western Art
5. Mutter Fine Art
6. Maddie Mutter

Hi.Welcome to Calgary Artists of America's podcast.

I'm your host, Megan Wimberley, and this month is Women's History Month, which is a time to celebrate the contributions, work and leadership of women across industries and generations. At Calgaryl Artists of America, we believe women's history isn't just something that happened in the past.

It's also being written right now in studios, on ranches, and in businesses and around kitchen tables across the country. This month, we're highlighting two conversations that explore the many dimensions of women in Western art.

First, we're sitting down with CGA member Maddie Mutter to talk about what it looks like to build an art career while raising young children. We'll dive into the realities, intentions, and also the beauty of being a working artist and mom.

Later this month, we'll also share a conversation with filmmaker Mark Sternberg about his upcoming documentary, Cowgirls Women of Western Art, which highlights the legacy and impact of women shaping this Western art genre. I hope you enjoy these two powerful conversations, but today I'm excited to welcome Maddie to the podcast. Hi, Maddie.

Hi.

Thank you so much for being here. And you've got your little baby cuddled up with you as we speak.

Yes, he joins me for everything.

Well, I typically, I don't like to read artist bios on the podcast because I think it's so much more interesting to hear from the artists themselves. So I wonder if you can just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got started in art and what type of art you're creating.

So I got started in art. I've always loved art. I've always been, you know, I've always had a sketchbook in hand. I drew in my sketchbook for years and years.

And I picked up oil painting when I was a teenager. But I started professionally right after I had had my first baby.

She was probably, oh, goodness, six months old when I started working professionally, so. So I've always had babies around while I've been working. That's just something that has been my life for the last six years or so.

But I am a Western artist. I live in northern Utah. My work primarily focuses on rural America and how Western life looks right now to people. So I love painting cattle.

I paint a lot of horses, lots of horse portraits. But I also love painting the relationship between cowgirl or cowboy between their cattle.

So something that is a lot of give and take between animal and person. And I love exploring, I love exploring that in art, and that's something that I look forward to. I love.

I primarily work from ranches, from photos that I take on ranches around my own home. So I have a lot to do with the ranching community here in northern Utah. And I really, I really enjoy it. I have four little kids.

I just had my fourth in like six weeks ago. So. But I, I. My husband, I love my husband. He work. He's part of the whole reason that it makes this whole possible is how he supports me.

And life's kind of crazy, but that's a little bit about me,

you said. So you said you started painting professionally about six months after your first child was born.

Did you choose pursu doing art in part to be able to be with your children and work from home, or was it just coincidence?

It was more coincidence. I didn't think I would make a lot of money doing it because I didn't know how much time I would be able to go into it.

But I was able to stay home with my baby. And I just decided that I needed something to do because I was being. I'm. I'm kind of a go getter. I just go out and I can't sit still.

So I told my husband, I said, you know what? I think I'm just going to start applying to art markets and I'm going to start painting.

And he was just kind of like, all right, I guess this is what we're doing now. So that is what I started doing. And then like, my. I remember painting with her.

She would sit in her bouncer, and I just started painting everything that was around me. So that was, you know, cows, barns.

And then I slowly got more into the western type thing as I got more involved in trying to figure out what I wanted to paint more. So that evolved just into. From basic rural things, more into the western side of it.

So that's how I started with, with painting is I just wanted something to do. And art means a lot to me. Anyways.

Yeah. How long have you been married?

I've been married eight years. And how.

How long had you been married when you had your first child?

About almost two years. I had been. Yeah, so we had her. She was. Yeah, almost about two years.

Okay. What. So you just said you just had your fourth baby. What do you kind of describe this season of your family life right now?

What is your house like with four little ones?

It's a zoo. I have three girls and one boy. We topped it off. This is our last baby. We decided this is our last little one was a boy.

So my husband finally got his buddy. But my house is just lots of dress ups, lots of. It's just, honestly, it's just crazy.

And if someone came over, they would probably go, why in the world would you do this to yourself? And the answer is, I think children enrich my. Have enriched my life. They make me a better person. I. My oldest is 6 years old.

We also homeschool, so we also do a lot of stuff in our. We also do a lot of, like, go out and learn from life, which is one of my favorite things. I think it's easy to say that it is a zoo, because it is.

But honestly, it's a lot more doable than people really think.

Like, especially if your personality is like mine, where you just get up and you go and you got a lot of, you know, that hard work that you, that you, that you cultivate over, over a lifetime. It really is a joyful part of my life and it's slow and there's a lot of frustrations.

And I have talked about those frustrations before, but in the end, I think it is. It's a beautiful way to live. And I think having small children really does make you a better person. So. And they teach you so much.

There's nothing like your child saying something to you and go, wow, I really sound like that.

Has having children shaped your actual art practice or your approach to your work?

Oh, 100%. You have to work around them because they're.

My kids are little, so they don't really understand that, you know, they don't really sit down for longer than about an hour or 2. So 100%, it has really affected my work. I've always been a fast painter, but I think having little kids has made me an even faster painter.

You can't really mess around or, you know, when you think of. When I think of being.

When I first started thinking of being an artist, I would think about, oh, like, you have to have all this time to sit around and, you know, think about all these beautiful things. And you, you kind of just. It's kind of like you have this vision of what being an artist would like and it is totally separate. It's very.

My work and how I approach my work is very structured. If it loses that structure, it. I don't get anything done because of the way that, you know, life is with little kids.

I mean, you're, you're dealing with school as they get older, they're toddlers, they don't understand, you know, safety things. So I don't really paint around my kids.

I need to have it, you Know, with oil paints, I use a couple of cadmium oil paints and I also use, you know, paint thinner. And you don't really want your little kids around that. So you have to, you have to have that structure in order to be able to get anything done.

So yeah, I would say it has totally affected. I have made some, I would say upgrades, but I've had to make some changes into how, like the step by step process.

So I recently like added procreate and more digital work because it's a lot easier to work digitally on, you know, an iPad or the computer with kids because there's no solvents or there's, there's no sketchbooks that they can take and steal and draw for themselves or, you know. So yeah, I would say 100% has, has affected my work. It's also made me think of as for like themes in my work.

I also, I think it's made me notice the softer points in western life. I actually love painting mama's, you know, a good, a good cow and her baby. I love painting horses and their, and their cults.

I just, I think it's made me a softer person in general.

So, yeah, I love that, that connection.

I often talk to people about things like that with my work and I always hope it doesn't offend anybody, but I think there is, there's this beautiful dynamic between a mammal mother and her baby and some others that aren't mammals too. You know, ducks and gees and stuff, you know, birds take care of. But to see that interaction is really beautiful. So I love hearing about that.

It sounds like being a mother and a working artist has forced you to be pretty decisive about what you're doing. Did that come naturally to you?

I think in some areas it did, yes. It made me be decisive on like how many commissions I can take, for example, or what shows I can take.

So for example, something that I had to decide on and I wasn't happy at the time about it because I really didn't want to is watching artists go and do national shows or do shows that are, you know, out of state from where they, where they live.

That was something that my husband and I had to sit down and go when my artwork started to be a little bit more noticed and, and that was kind of like the next logical step was, okay, are we going to. Or like, am I going to go do this?

Even though we would like to have, you know, another child or another two child at that, or a couple more kids at that point. And we made the decision as, as, as a couple, that I wasn't going to go do that because it was more important for me to be home with my babies.

And that was a really hard decision. I remember just thinking, but that's what I want to go do. I want to go, you know, be that and have that career.

But you also have to consider that your baby's like, my babies are not going to be little for a long time.

And do I want to remember them, you know, mom traveling and being gone a few times a year, you know, for a week or so or two weeks, depending on whatever event was going on. And I didn't want that for my family.

I wanted my kids to, you know, I wanted to be home with my little babies, which I think sometimes moms can be really, I don't know, not hurt isn't. But definitely got some serious FOMO occasionally. Like, if I see a show, I still go, oh, I wish I could have applied to that.

Or, you know, I wish I could have done that. But 100. I've had to have some really hard decisions with, like, commissions.

I have to think about how much time can my husband offer to help watch the kids, or how much can I realistically work on a piece and also work on paintings that fill my soul.

Not that commissions are bad, but sometimes they can suck a little bit of the life out of you if, especially if it's something that you just don't jive with, even though you try your hardest to, you know, match up what commissions would go well with what artist.

But as for creating artwork, yes, I have, I have like, completely honed in my, my, my, my process to where if I know that I want to paint something, I've got to, you know, work up digital mock ups where before I would kind of play around with it for, you know, a couple of weeks and it would take up a lot more time where I wouldn't really get to actually painting the piece until, you know, a month or so down the road because of the limited time that I have. And it kind of makes you have to choose what, I don't know, like, you really have to focus on what you're going to work on and have a plan.

So like, for example, if I wanted to work on a larger painting, I would make sure that I didn't come into working and think, oh, well, I really should be, you know, I really should email these people or I should, you know, do this admin work. No, I'm going to do the admin work while my kids are playing and I can do that, like, you know, on the computer.

And when I have the time to paint, I'm actually going to paint and I'm not going to just fiddle around in my studio, which is really easy to do.

Yeah, you know, it's probably a blessing in some ways because I think there's so many artists that struggle with second guessing themselves or feeling insecure and you just literally don't have the time to do that. Like you are just having to get in and, and, and do the work and make the decisions. I, I love how you're talking about. Well, a couple of things.

I love how you made choices based on your foundational values. That's something that I talk a lot in some of the courses I teach. As you start with that, what is it? And you talked exactly about that.

Like, I want to be with my kids while they're little and be here. I don't want them to remember me being gone all the time.

And obviously for you, that's going to change eventually where you can do those things when you want, but you're building your business around the values for your life, which I think is really what we need to start with. And so I love that you're doing that.

I do want to say, could consider still some of those applying for them and just sending the work you don't have to go. So that might be something that you consider where you can still kind of take part but not necessarily go to it.

But also, obviously, you know what you're doing. I just want to throw that out there because your work is lovely and I think it would make a great addition to some of the shows.

And I've sent work and not gone to things, so that's something that's totally doable.

But I really love that you're making those decisions based on your foundational, foundational core values, because those are things that, those really are the bedrock of everything we do. And as business owners, we get to make those decisions for ourselves.

The other thing I, I would like to dive in more about, if you're okay with it, is just you and your husband and how y' all made the decisions together.

Because I think that's really a lovely thing that y' all are talking about this and he's like, these are the ways I can support you and these are where I can't. I, I wonder if you can speak about that a little bit.

Oh, 100%. He's, he's literally the other half of this. He does, you know, if you see me painting, he's done, you know, the other half of the work, he.

And that comes in watching his, his girls and his, his kids.

But when my work started to really like, kick off where I could, you know, choose to really be like full time about it or, you know, be a mom and an artist at the same time, we sat down and talked about how, okay, well, what, what can you, like, help with? Because little kids are hard and they don't always want to be with their dad. They, they want to be with mom. Which makes sense.

But for my sanity, I, I really was like, okay, I need at least, you know, a couple hours a week to just be gone and be in my own little world. So we sat down. He. I'm like, I'm. I think we're blessed and I think we're blessed because we.

He works in law enforcement, so he works kind of an odd schedule. So he's home weird days.

And I think in the end, like, that might, like when we got married and, and I started living his kind of schedule, I thought it would be really hard to live that way and that it would not allow me to create the way I wanted to. But in the end it has been really helpful because he is home on, you know, random Mondays or, you know, random.

Other families have to just work like other moms just have to work like on the weekend, so. Or, you know, just a Saturday or a Sunday. And that's, that's all they have. Well, we, I, I'll ask him like, okay, so I know what your schedule's like.

Could you watch the girls or, you know, help tend the girls while you, like, are home this Wednesday? And he'll go, yeah, like, you've got the morning. And I'm like, great, got the morning. So I will get up and it's like 6:30, 6:00 clock in the morning.

I'll wake up going to the studio and, and I can hear them, you know, argue. Like the girls like, saying, why can't we mom? Like, we want to be with mom. But it's, and it's.

I, I know that there's a lot of mom guilt that can also happen with that. But to be honest, like, my sanity is, is has to, I have to be able to have that time. So it's definitely decision making.

So for example, with commissions and for shows, like, I'll do one, I usually do one local show, like a market type thing a year. I'll go do one little booth market and, and it's local so I don't have to, you know, Travel very far. But I'll say, okay, that's.

This is when the time is. Do you think, you know, you could give me this weekend?

You know, where you can take off work and I can help with this because our kids are little enough where I don't want to dump them on my mom for three days or something like that. But he. It's definitely. We make the decisions together, and that's something that's really important to me because our family is so young, and.

And even though. Even as our kids grow up, I don't think that will change very much because he really is. He's my other half. He. We make decisions together, so.

About his career and. And mine.

So, yeah, that's great. And it is.

There's so much that goes into being an artist, and I think a lot of artists experience maybe their spouse not understanding the seriousness of what they're doing. It's more like play. And so it sounds like that's not a problem that you deal with.

And that's really great to hear, but I'm sure that that has contributed so much to your ability to be successful because you do have that support within your family system.

Oh, I would say, oh, there's no way that I would be doing this if he didn't support it. And I've explained to him what it feels like to paint and to be really in that zone. I'm like. It feels like I'm flying, and it feels like.

Like it's really cliche to say that there's, like, a cage and, like, there's all this art juice and stuff in. In it. When I'm not creating and when I am able to get into that zone to just create, it's like it completely releases.

And then I am able to be a better mom. I'm able to be a better wife, a better friend, a better artist.

And when I explained that to him, like, about a year or so or two into after, when it was getting a little bit more busy and we had to make these decisions, I told him that's how it felt. And he goes, oh, well, that makes sense. The thing about. About.

It feels like play was definitely more on me, more my problem, because I could hear him, you know, doing dishes or, you know, he'd take the girls to go do something, or, you know, I would. I would be down here painting and having the time of my life, and I. I definitely struggled with that. He didn't. He'd be like, no, you're working.

Like. Like, he would see the, you know, the money or the sales that I would make or, like, connections I would be making. And he'd be like, no, you'.

I totally get it. And I would be like, but it's not really working. And he's like, but it is working. So that was my. That was my issue. But he's.

He's a very understanding man. I'm definitely. He's way out of my league. So just for that alone, but anyways.

Well, that's so great.

And.

And, you know, you talked a little bit about guilt and in listening to that story, too, I think that is such a struggle that so many women have, because even. Even families that don't follow traditional, like, woman takes care of the house, man goes out and works like that, don't follow that.

That's still such a big part of our cultural history and the way a lot of people do it, that women who don't follow that still find themselves feeling guilty about those things.

So maybe they're the ones at home working in their studio, their husbands out working somewhere else, and there's laundry and dishes and vacuuming and things to do. And it's so easy to think, well, I should be doing that. I'm here instead of painting.

And so acknowledging that for yourself and having a partner that acknowledges that is such a huge thing to honor that. That real work time. How. How many hours a week typically, do you think you're spending painting?

Oh, goodness. Well, since I've got a new baby right now, it's down a lot, but I probably paint, I don't know, six hours a week.

And I honestly spend more time in my sketchbook than I do painting, just trying to keep up, you know, my art, like, you know, just the practice and things in my sketchbook because it's a lot easier to sketch than paint. But my husband, like I said, he has a couple odd days off.

I also have some really supportive friends that will, like, take my girls for an hour that are just down the road, and I'll quickly paint for an hour, and then they come home or as.

I don't know, I. I say it's really easy to paint with a baby, but you have to consider, like, if you're nursing or, you know, if the baby's good at sleeping. If the baby isn't good at sleeping, you' to get anything done. But I've noticed as I've been in the.

The up and down of, okay, I have a baby, and then I have a toddler, but then I also, I just had another baby, and now I Have a toddler with a baby. The painting definitely is up and down. And I have found that not having. Not having specific expectations for myself is not.

Is going to help me mentally and not feel so guilty about, you know, oh, well, I wish I could be painting or, you know, that, that, that kind of fomo because you kind of. You're stuck. And I think every mom goes through this regardless if they're an artist or not.

You're stuck changing diapers, folding laundry, you know, doing all the mom things. And all you want to do is, you know, paint. And that's not possible all the time. So finding those little places that you can paint is.

Or, you know, work on something is. Is crucial. Like, I know artists that will wake up at like 4 in the morning to paint before their little kids get up.

So they'll have a couple hours in the morning. Or my preferred is when my husband gets home, I throw my kids at him and say I'm going into my studio for two hours before bedtime.

So it's really making that time and then making sure that you are sticking to that. I think is. Is how you can get painting done with little kids. Yeah. The.

Have you. Well, two things, I guess. Have you struggled with like postpartum fatigue or things like that? And also, have you ex.

Have any of your children been bad sleepers and how did you navigate that?

Yes, so I 100 have struggled with I. Well, postpartum depression and postpartum, you know, fatigue. Just having a baby's rough. It's not easy.

I. I've had, you know, four babies in six years. It's. It's really rough on your mental health. It's rough on. It's rough on your body. It's not easy. I've had four C sections.

Hold on, what was the question again?

Have you struggled with fatigue or any children that didn't sleep well and. Oh, yes, kind of navigated that.

Oh, yes. Oh, see, there's the postpartum brain. I don't just gone. I have struggled. My second baby. I. That's my.

I had my second baby right when things were starting to pick up in my art art. And she did not want anybody but mom. You had to rock her a very specific way for like 30 minutes to get her to sleep any.

Anytime she was super gassy, she was very spit up. So for about five or six months with my second, my second child, it was really hard. Like I remember thinking rocking her and just going.

I literally wish. I just want someone who can take care of her. So I can just have an hour of, you know, creative time for me. And it didn't happen very often.

And when it did, all I would do is hear her cry because she was with her dad, and that was really hard.

As a mom, I think it's hard for any mom to listen to their babies cry, and even when they're just taking time, you know, just for themselves, because it's. It's difficult. I have found ways to work around it, both with postpartum depression as well as having difficult babies or difficult toddlers.

First of all, my husband is the one who would notice that I would be, you know, kind of down and like, oh, I don't really want to paint. Like, you know, when and when you're depressed and hormonal after having a baby, you kind of just. You don't feel like doing it, and you.

You don't want to because it's. It's a depression. But my husband would sit and. Hopefully that didn't interrupt my airpods. Sorry.

No, you're still good. So you're talking about your feeling depression.

Yeah.

Notice you're down.

Yeah. So my husband would be the one to say he had noticed that I would be down, and he'd say, okay, I'm gonna take the kids to the park.

I want, like, you need to, like, I'll take the baby. I'll take a bottle, and you need to just take some time for you. And he would actually push me into the studio. And he. He still does it today.

He'll just say, you need some time. Please do this.

And he would make sure that he was supportive in that role, because I would describe to him what it was like, you know, having a bit of postpartum depression. And he knew. He had known a little bit from experiences that he had. Had what that felt like being depressed. So he. He was.

He's always been really good about saying, all right, I noticed that you haven't wanted to paint, like, all week. You need to. And I am really grateful that he.

He does stuff like that because it kind of pulls you out of it and go, oh, yeah, like, oh, I can be a person. You know, besides being the. The milk cow or, you know, the person that only changes diapers. So. But I think if you.

I think if someone doesn't have that supportive role, is supportive person to, you know, kind of push them or help them with their. Their postpartum stuff, it's. I don't know. That's. That's a really hard, Hard thing to.

Hard thing to get out of it, but just sticking to, I don't know, whenever I get like that, I always make sure that I, that I schedule time even if I don't want to. Like that's part of the biggest thing is scheduling that art time. Even if I'm like, I don't want to or my husband hasn't said anything about it.

And I think that's the same with, with having a difficult baby or you know, you have colicky babies or you have babies that will only sleep like in a baby wrap or you know, you have toddlers that are really clingy. They all go through their phases. But I think just having that scheduled time is the biggest thing.

If you don't have that, that supportive person to, you know, say, hey, you need to, you need to go do this and they understand that you need that in your life.

I think just having, you know, what Saturday morning or nap time is my time, I got to do it Saturday morning or you know, Sunday afternoon, whatever that time is. That's how, that's how I've gotten through it. It's not fun, but yeah, but you got to do it.

So I have a couple of follow up questions, but first I want to mention just because, you know, we're going to be posting this in Women's History Month and I think that's really about celebrating how impactful and powerful women are.

And I think about when I've heard men who are artists who have families talking about the way that they're approached to getting time in the studio and, and for the most part it is much different for men and women because the men often say they're saying similar things in that they have a supportive partner, you know, but they aren't navigating, that being the breastfeeding the baby, they aren't navigating dealing with the hormones. They aren't, you know, those sorts of things.

And often it's like their wife has the baby, the babies, the children, the whole day and they are in their studio and they're very grateful and they talk about that.

But when I think about the ways in which women are navigating that and navigating postpartum and breastfeeding and changing and all of the things, even with a supportive partner, it, the burden on your physical and mental abilities are so strong, like you said, having the brain fog and everything.

And so I just say all of that to say women are amazing and the fact that they're able to grow babies and feed babies and still pursue their career with passion is so incredible. And I often think about, there's an ultra runner, and I wish I could remember her name.

I can't remember names, but ultra running is anything longer than a marathon. And if I'm remembering all the facts correctly, which I might be slightly off, but I'm pretty close.

She was doing an ultra marathon that was like 100 miles long. She was postpartum, and she stopped along the way to breastfeed her baby. And I think she won the race, actually, which is incredible.

So I just want to say that, to say sometimes we get these notions of women that are not right. And you are being such a great. Your family, it sounds like, is being such a great example of supporting women in their passions and their skills.

And that's so beautiful. And then just remembering how much women are really navigating and doing this. So I wanted to take that little side note.

But then the thing that one of the things I want to ask you about is, or actually I'm going to combine it into two things, is kind of the organization and structure you've talked about a little bit and schedule. I'm curious, are you actually, like, do you put a shared calendar and so your husband knows, like, hey, this is the time I'm taking.

How do you manage that sort of thing?

I just. So if. So, for example, he has a lot of Wednesdays off. So we'll say, okay, what do we wanted to get done on this Wednesday?

Like, oh, you know, someone's got to go do the oil change on the car or whatever. But then he'll. We'll, we'll schedule that time together.

We'll sit down, look at the week and go, okay, I can paint for, you know, the morning of this.

And it's, it is very, it's kind of, it's almost expected at this point because we've been living in that routine for so long that all works the morning of whatever day he has off, just because that's when my art juices are flowing the best. That's when I've got the most I can. I can create good work in the mornings versus, you know, the afternoon when I'm just done with, with thinking.

But it's, it's. We've created this rhythm where he just, we just kind of expect, okay, I'm going to work the morning.

And he will take that time to be with his kids and, and I take my time to be with my art and with. And really in the nitty gritty stuff. So not, you know, like admin and stuff. It's. It's all the painting, the stuff I can't do with little kids.

So that's just how we've. We've. We've scheduled it and how we've kind of lived our life. Lives the last, like, five years. So.

Yeah, that's great. We've kind of. I'm going to scroll through my questions here because we've kind of answered a lot of them just in the conversational way. We're going.

What are some unexpected gifts of raising kids while building your art career?

Oh, my goodness. Megan. I'm gonna cry. Not gonna cry, baby. I will.

Maybe.

I just. I love that my.

And especially because I have three girls, I love that they get to see me doing something I love and they think it is the coolest thing. My. This sounds so silly, but my two oldest girls, because the. I have a two. I. They're five. They're not five. They're six and four.

So they're just little. There's these cute little, little pixie girls. Very girly, very horse girl. Everything's about horses and cowgirls and rodeo anyways.

But they get to see me do something that I absolutely love, and they get to see the work that I'm putting into it and taking that time. For me, that is so important because I remember growing up and not.

And thinking it was play, you know, thinking that sketch was play because, you know, it wasn't out working, you know, with the tractor, you know, it wasn't out. It wasn't real work.

You know, when you grow up doing a lot of hard, hard work outside, I. I just love that they get to see that, and I love that they get to see my husband be supportive of that because that's so important to me. I'm like, you know what.

Whatever they choose to do, if what they choose to do is, you know, just be the best mom ever, and they just love that they jive with it or if they chose to, you know, do whatever they wanted to, I think it's totally amazing that they get to see me be a mom and pursue something that I absolutely love. I think we were talking about the benefits, right?

Yeah. The unexpected moments of beauty or things that come with that.

Okay, let me think. Let me think. If there's anything else.

Well, while you're thinking, I also. I think that it. What you're saying is so true about.

First of all, you're getting to be a role model for your girls to show that girls can pursue the things that they're interested and passionate about. But also, it sounds like you and your husband are setting such a good example for them about what a good relationship works like.

I hope so looks like and works like.

Yeah, because, you know, I think that that's something we learn so much that we don't even realize we're learning by watching the relationships of the adults around us when we're kids.

And so I think that that hopefully is going to be a good protective mechanism of them being with people who aren't supportive of them, which I think is such a jump start to life to get that.

Yeah, 100%. I don't know. I'm so grateful for his example and he's a good guy. Like I said, he's way out of my league. Just his temperament alone.

But I, I, I'm just so very grateful for, for that example and for that they, that they can see that in their, in their, in their growing up. I think another, another thing that I had not thought about was encouraging creativity.

What Like, I, I, I knew that they would like, love, you know, creating and things, but I, especially because I have little girls, so, you know, they're cute and they just sit down and play with their things, all cute and, you know, they're adorable. They're, they're little girls.

And I don't really, and I, it may be different for our, our boy who might just break Sheetrock, you know, and do what boys do and eat dirt. But I love that my girls create wherever they go.

So we will, we'll like, be at a park or something and their favorite thing to do is literally go around and make little, like, villages or something. They're just, they're just very creative and I'm glad that they've had that example where they can say, oh, I don't have this.

I can actually create it. So my daughter will like, create her like, she'll crochet something if she doesn't have it. It's really cute.

But I think they just see that example of, of me saying, oh, I, I see this in my head and I really want to have this or, you know, if it's a painting or something, they can, I, but I think that's something that is really, especially in the world where, you know, you can just buy whatever. I think it's really valuable that they can put in the hard work and, and just create well, and now in

a world where you can write a prompt and like, quote, unquote, make art, I would say just generate image, but, you know, you're teaching them those things and, and I think that's going to be really valuable for your son, too, because often boys aren't encouraged as much in creative pursuits, you know, and so for him to be able to experience that and see that that is a valuable thing, if that's something that he wants to pursue, I think is really lovely, too.

It.

I'll be interested to see how it.

How things go as the kids get older, because my stepdaughter is a teenager, and it's so funny because I think she's already kind of entrepreneurial minded, naturally, but I think her getting to see me doing the stuff that I do, she learns from it. And then she.

It's funny because, like, we went to an art store one day, and I was buying some fabric to make bags for the art, and then I had forgotten something, and so I was like, will you stand here while the lady cuts the fabric? I'm gonna go grab something. And so I went over and. And I could hear her talking to the lady.

And the lady was like, what is she buying all this fabric for? And she's like, gives this whole spiel about my artwork, and then she gives the spiel about Cowgirl Artists of America.

And so it's so funny because I always think if she does choose to go a path where she's some sort of entrepreneur again, it's like a jumpstart. She's getting to see those things, and probably eventually, you know, maybe I'll hire her for something for a little bit.

And so they get those really unique. I mean, it's kind of like farm kids, you know, farm kids who know how to work on everything and fix everything, because that's how they grew up.

You know, you're getting. Your kids are getting kind of a different version of that, so it's really cool.

That's really nice. I hadn't thought about that.

Yeah, let's see if.

So if there's any mothers listening who are just feeling so overwhelmed, like her career is just slipping away, or she's just really discouraged, or maybe she's dealing with some postpartum depression or whatever. What would you say to women who are kind of stuck feeling stuck right now?

If their postpartum is anything like mine, or whenever I feel that discouragement, I would say, you are right where you need to be, and it's okay to take time for your. For your art? And I know it's super cliche and super over. I feel like some moms are tired of hearing it, but it really will pass.

It's just a season of life.

It is really hard to be in that stage where either you can't create because you have little kids or, you know, you're recovering from giving birth or you're having a difficult pregnancy. I also have difficult pregnancies, so that's something I've had to take in to account with my work. But this. It really will. It really will pass.

And

after.

But while it is going, it is okay to take little snippets of time for yourself, because that's really all that's possible when you do have little kids. And especially explaining to, you know, your partner or your husband that, hey, I need this for me, this will help me.

And explaining what that feels like, I think is.

Is a really big game changer, because I know that my husband knew that I liked it, but until he knew that, it helped me function better as a mother, as a wife, just as a person in general, I think that helped him be even more supportive of what I needed as a mother. Because you. You had mentioned earlier, like, you're. As a. As a mom, you're also breastfeeding. You know, if you are, you're worried about naps.

Maybe the baby only wants to sleep on you, you know, in a carrier. That's what this baby wants right now. But it's okay to give yourself that permission to. To create. And it's.

The longer you leave it, the harder it is to jump back into artwork. So even if you're just drawing while they watch, like, a show or they. Or you are.

You know, you're just doing little things, even digital artwork, it's gonna help you stay rooted in that artwork work way. Excuse me. It's gonna help you stay in that mindset even through those hard times. So. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, of course, you know, disclaimer.

Obviously, if you need to seek professional help, there's no shame in getting professional help if you need. And also. And also, I want to, like, clarify something, because I did say breastfeeding earlier, but obviously not all moms breastfeed.

So that wasn't about an assumption. That was just, if you are. That's something that's taking a lot of time. Yeah, let's see. So let's.

I want to kind of pivot back just to your career as an artist. Not necessarily just as a mom, but as an artist. And I'm curious, what are you working on this year?

Do you have any big goals or anything you're excited about?

Yes, my big goal for this year is focusing on creating artwork that is a little bit higher quality than what I'VE produced in the last couple years because I have been pregnant, and I don't feel like my brain was working completely, because it wasn't. And it's. I don't feel like it's still not quite back on all the way yet after having a baby, but I felt like my work was lacking a little bit.

But I am really excited this year, so I'm going to be really intentional with. With how I'm painting what I'm painting, because I. This is our last baby. I'm. I'm. I. I don't want to say that I'm free after.

After I get done nursing, but that's kind of what I'm looking for because the last, you know, six years, I've. I've had a baby every two years, and that's, you know, pregnant one year, postpartum pregnant one year. It's.

It's been, you know, this roller coaster, and I'm kind of looking to go, okay, like, in one year, I won't be pregnant. Like, that's. That's kind of an odd thought for me.

So I want to create artwork that I'm proud of and that I know I put my best effort into, so that's what I'm focused on this year. Who knows how much artwork I'll be able to get done? But as long as I. I think as long as I am happy and focused on that artwork, I think I'll.

I'll consider that goal met.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'll. I'll look forward to following along on. On what you're doing. Can you tell people how they can find you?

You can find me on Instagram at Mutter Fine Art. You can also join my email list@madelinemutter.com that's the best way to keep up with my newsletters, but definitely Instagram or Facebook.

Facebook's the same. Just Mutter Fine Art. So that's where you can find me.

And it's mu T T E R, right?

Yes, ma'. Am. Okay.

All right. Well, thank you for being here and for sharing your advice. I think a lot of women are going to be able to resonate with this and learn from you.

So thank you for being here.

Happy to.