If 80% of businesses aren't making a profit, and 60% are simply breaking even, we have to ask an uncomfortable question.

Are accountants really making the difference they could?

In this episode of Advisory Conversations, Tim Seymour and Deb Halliday explore what those statistics mean for the accounting profession and why compliance alone isn't enough to help business owners build stronger, more profitable businesses.

We discuss why the future of accounting isn't about producing better reports. It's about having better conversations.

The most valuable advisors don't just explain the numbers after the event. They help business owners make better decisions before problems arise. That means moving from reporting the past to influencing the future.

We also introduce the Advisory Pyramid and explore how accountants can help clients move from surviving to thriving through proactive advice, stronger relationships and structured advisory conversations.

The episode also looks at why advisory shouldn't depend on one expert. Building an advisory team allows practices to deliver consistent, scalable support that creates better outcomes for clients while removing the business owner as the bottleneck.

Whether you're just starting your advisory journey or looking to build an advisory-led practice, this episode will challenge the way you think about the role of today's accountant.

Key takeaways

• Why so many businesses remain unprofitable despite having accountants.
• The difference between reporting numbers and creating business change.
• How the Advisory Pyramid helps identify where clients need the most support.
• Why better conversations create better business decisions.
• How advisory teams deliver greater value than relying on a single advisor.
• Why technology and AI should free up time for advisory, not replace it.
• Practical steps to move from compliance work into genuine advisory.

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📘 Advisory Teams by Tim Seymour & Deb Halliday

Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to Advisory Conversations with Tim Seymour and Deb Halliday.

This podcast is for accounting professionals and financial coaches who are ready to step beyond compliance and into advisory.

Because real advisory isn't about doing more yourself, it's about building something that works without you being the bottleneck.

Hey Dan, welcome along.

Advisory Conversations is up and running again.

How are you today?

I'm great, thanks.

Yeah, yeah, really good.

How are you?

I'm very well if I go for a different opening for a change.

Otherwise I just say hello Deb, how are you?

And I'm sure it's a bit boring listening to that all the time, so fine, change it up.

Deb, we're going to have a great conversation today because we shared a stat, haven't we recently?

And you know, 80% of businesses do not make a profit.

In fact, 60% are only breaking even and 20% are either making a loss or going bust.

It's a hell of a stat to hear, isn't it that.

Yeah, it's really frightening really, isn't it?

And if you knew that before you started a business, would you start.

Well, it probably would put you off, wouldn't it?

To be fair?

Yeah, yeah.

So, so it, it begs the question that if, if, if only 20% are making a profit and I know we could break that down further.

1% Is the super successful elite, you know, the Elon Musk's of the world, that kind of thing, which is they're obviously unique.

The next 4% is, is super successful.

Then 15% of businesses are making a healthy, long term sustainable profit where they can really push on and maybe they can move up into that, the upper echelons of the, of the pyramid as well.

But if 80% of people are not making money, then is the accounting industry failing in its service of the clients, the business owners that are running businesses or is the whole setup just wrong?

Well, I think the accountants are just reporting the numbers, aren't they?

They're just reporting those stats really.

Shamasi, it's not serving the business owners.

So there's a lot more that we can do.

I think with the rise of automation, technology, AI, it's given us that opportunity, isn't it, to move the break even?

Well, the people that are going bust, going broke, move them into the break even and then up into the doing great.

That's what we should be focusing on.

And I'm sure since we're being paid by the business owners and they're our customers, they're our clients, I'm sure that they would welcome that level of support because really who does just reporting the numbers serve.

Yeah, this just HMRC really.

It's an interesting concept.

It's a good question to ask historically, are we failing businesses?

But isn't it also the proactive and positive way to look at this is.

It's a fantastic opportunity because there's so many businesses out there that are clearly not making enough money that we can help.

So you know, and if we start with our clients and start to move them up the pyramid slightly and it's not going to happen overnight, there's no miracle get, you know, get rich quick, quick fix, you know, kind of strategies out there.

It's going to be a process to take people through which gives you the opportunity to deliver some high value advisory over a long period of time, start to deliver results, start to move those clients upwards and they will then obviously they're going to love you and your, and your team forever.

But also it's going to help you attract the type of clients that you looking to attract because they're going to want what you're sharing, you've done with these other clients and suddenly you start to become a more attractive proposition.

And rather than, rather than the businesses coming to you that do only want compliance because they just want to tick the box, you might start attracting some higher caliber clients in itself.

But success breeds success, doesn't it?

And it's kind of like a cycle that, that we go through.

But it, but interestingly enough, if we take a step back from that, it's interesting to think about this as a perspective through the eyes of a business owner rather than an accountant.

So, so if we kind of take off our shoes and put on their shoes and their glasses and maybe look at it from the point of view of what, what do they want?

How, how does it work for a business?

Sony, you know what happens when they start their business?

Yeah.

So we had, I thought about this when I ran the accounts.

Ladies and I used to explain this on discovery calls for with clients.

A business owner generally starts a business and designs the services, builds a website, does all the branding and finds clients and starts to sell.

And it's only a short while after that they realize that they need an accountant because they need to submit a tax return.

So the accountant is really very rarely.

It starts from the beginning of the client's business journey.

They're almost like an afterthought.

So the business owner will ask relatives and colleagues, who do you use?

Who's your accountant?

And then out of the choices that they're given by friends, colleagues, family, they'll choose the cheapest generally because resources are short and are scarce, because at the beginning of their journey and really all they think they need is their tax returns being submitted.

So they go through that early stage and then they move to thinking, actually I need to know how much I need to save for my tax and am I paying myself?

How much can I take out of the business?

Are my prices right and am I running a good business model?

And they think that their accountant should be answering these questions and.

But what they don't realize is because they've chosen the cheapest tax return, like any business, the cheaper you sell, the more you have to sell to hit a certain income level and profitability.

So by choosing the cheapest, they've chosen somebody that is just literally churning out tax returns because they're doing it for the rock bottom price.

And by the time they've nearly finished the first one tax, they're already thinking about how they can fit in another because they've got to churn these out to be able to start bringing in some money.

So a lot of time the business owner doesn't recognize that and they start thinking that the accountant they've chosen is rubbish because they're not getting the support and they're not getting the questions answered that they really need.

So they start this frustration sets in, they usually live with it for a little while and then there's a turning point and then they look for another accountant that will give them the support.

And that's where when a lot of accountants start to lose the business because they're only dealing with the tax returns and they haven't catered for the clients that actually need the support.

So I mean from there they have the business support or they might even have chosen a business coach.

But then they also, if they get big enough, they want advisory team because if you think about it, the larger businesses, all large businesses have in house accounts department and yes, they submit the VAT returns and the payroll details to hmrc, but a core function of that department is to make sure that the business is running a healthy profit and set budgets for various different departments and they've got all sorts of roles within there might have a management accountant, might have a financial controller and they might have somebody in charge of budgets.

They, you know, they've got in house accountants, in house bookkeepers and that's generally what business owners need when they get to a certain level.

So yeah, and obviously ultimately if they do get to the final stage, which not all businesses do.

Not all businesses want to.

They take it in house and they have their own in house team.

But yeah, that's, that's, that's what we were looking, been looking at.

Is the business owner journey from their side, what do they need from the accountant?

And then the question is asked, well, what kind of accountant are we, which stage of business are we supporting for the, for the clients?

So does that answer your question, Tim?

That was a long.

Very much so, yes, it does and more in fact.

And it's really interesting to, to try and look at what our clients want from their perspective because do our clients know what we can offer them?

You know, are they aware of all the things we can do for them?

Because you mentioned some people go to business coaches.

Well, why do they do that when they can get everything they need from their accountants or bookkeepers?

Yeah, a lot of the time it's because they don't know.

And maybe the accountant is so wrapped up in delivering tax returns and doing the compliance that they're unable to offer the services.

And also if you've got the one, if you've got the practice owner, for instance, offering advisory, they're capped.

They can't, they can't offer it to everybody because there's only a certain amount of hours that they can deliver advisory because they are the bottleneck.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so there's all sorts of reasons, isn't there?

But the question I think we've got to ask ourselves is, is that the type of business we want to be losing or handing over gift wrap to somebody else?

Because generally by the time that the client realizes they need that support,.

They,.

They're an easy sell.

Yeah.

Because they've already decided that that's the kind of support that they need.

So that's why I say we gift wrap it to somebody else because we put them in that position.

They shouldn't get to the point where they realize they desperately need that and it looks great fit from somebody else.

You should have that relationship with your accountant if you want to deliver advisory.

When you ran your accounts ladies business and you had your team delivering not only the compliance but also the advisory to your clients, when you took on a new client, you used to tell them where they fitted in, didn't you?

So if we're looking at it from this perspective, that's kind of exactly what you were doing back then, isn't it?

You were saying, well, okay, you're not startup, you're not, but you're also not ready to scale and really go big so you're somewhere in between.

So we're going to put you here, this is what we're going to do for you and this is how it's going to work.

And they didn't really have a choice, did they?

That was where they fitted into your business.

That's where they fitted.

Yeah.

And that's where they recognize themselves on the journey.

Cause when you map it out like that for somebody they'll generally self judge where am I on that journey?

And if you've started off by explaining at the beginning, they've generally chosen the cheapest tax return submitter.

Yeah.

And you explain that the accountancy business is the same as any other business.

The cheaper you sell for, the more you have to sell.

So you've already told them that by getting a cheap price they're only going to get that entry level.

So you've all they're already expecting to pay more for because you've explained they don't have the bandwidth, they don't have the time because they're literally just going on to the next action.

If you want the time spent looking into your business and giving you the support, then that comes at a cost because we, there's only so many that we can and obviously we need to reach a turnover like any other business.

So.

And profitability.

So yeah, so it was, it was, they always recognized that that used to be them.

That used to be, they did go for the cheapest.

And if they are moving up and elevating themselves on their own journey then of course they need the support and they need, you know, because otherwise they're only ever going to start and stay in the startup stage.

And that, that, that's not where most businesses, business owners see themselves.

It'd be a interesting exercise for accounting and bookkeeping practice.

Owners would be to kind of review their clients and think about where they sit, you know, are they at the startup stage?

And so therefore they're, they're looking for minimal costs, you know, keeping the costs low and just looking for the statutory compliance clients and that's all they want.

Are they at a point where they've started to grow and now they're getting a little bit frustrated because they want a bit more.

So they're starting to ask questions but you'll find it frustrating as well because you don't really have time to answer those questions.

They're not really paying you enough.

So those kind of small feelings of resentment kick in sometimes because you don't feel this is right, you need to have a conversation with them.

To bring them in, you know, to understand what you can do for them, but where that sits within your offering.

Because otherwise they're going to hit that turning point and they're going to say, well, okay, I've gone through frustration, now I actually want to grow.

I've got this mindset now where I'm looking to grow.

I'm aware of where I want to take my business.

You're not offering me what I want, so I'm going to go and find someone else.

And we kind of need to avoid that happening, don't we?

Yeah, yeah, we do.

And as I say, I did that with the accounts ladies by having this conversation in the discovery call.

So when a client came to us, you know, it positioned us.

I told them we are the advisory team, because it's not me that's delivering the advisory, it's the team that are delivering the advisory.

I positioned them, or they positioned themselves and they could choose then at the discovery call.

So.

And that's because it's a different conversation and one that they hadn't had with anybody else then it's something that they remember so they know that they're going to get the support.

So they may still be startup.

Bear in mind, we're not positioned to price for startups.

You can still be a client, but this is the journey you're on.

And if you need, if you recognize you need the support now, fine.

If not, if you just want your tax return submitted, I can recommend other people that just submit tax returns.

And that's how we positioned it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, it was a bit of a filter system really, but you're already making them think about longer term, what do they need?

And yeah, I mean, some of them, they didn't have the, they didn't have the funds, but they could always come back when they did.

You know, when they were at that stage, you always leave the door open.

Yeah.

So interesting conversation.

But it also helps, that kind of conversation.

They already, when they acknowledge that they need the support and they say, yes, we want that support, then you're into the conversation of, well, what are your goals?

What do you think you need support for?

Where are you taking your business?

And that opens up.

Yeah, it's not, you know, how many employees have you got?

How many transactions have you got that will come.

We can do that in the onboarding.

But this is the package that you're on because we based it on turnover and whether they were under the VAT threshold or over the VAT threshold, depending on that's how we positioned it.

It's really interesting, isn't it?

And then of course, as the, as the client then does grow with the business, they need a higher level of support.

And that, that level of support is very difficult to provide solo.

So if you're, you know, okay, I mean, yeah, okay for, for certain people, you know, charging high fees and, and just one person doing it, yes, it is workable, but only while you're available.

What happens when you go on holiday?

What happens if you're unwell, you know, then what your clients do, where do they get that support from?

So as these clients are growing to have support from more than one person is kind of crucial to their success and for their continued evolution of their business journey, but also for the accounting practices evolution of their business journey because it cannot rely on one person.

And it's the, it's the one thing that we keep seeing time after time after time as an issue.

Having had all this experience of helping people move into the space of advisory, becoming the trusted advisor, as we like to call it, but then suddenly hitting this ceiling because you've hit that bottleneck, as you mentioned earlier, hit that ceiling, you've only got so much time and you're basically back trading time for hours.

However you price your advisory, you can only do so much and you can only do it for a certain amount of time.

So having the team involved and having the team deliver advisory and having a group of people pull their resources together, use all of their expertise that they've got, use all their knowledge and bringing it all into one pool of information to then share with a client is so powerful.

And it's just, it just multiplies the outcomes that the clients are going to get and it multiplies the how long is that client going to stay with you if they're getting that level of support, you know.

Yeah.

And not only that, it elevates your team.

So your team are doing more interesting work, they're developing, they're learning from each other, they're collaborating so they have a closer connection with their own team members.

They have common interest because they all instrumental in the success of their clients, businesses.

So you retain your best team members for longer as well.

They don't jump ship looking for a better opportunity because they're fed up of doing back returns.

You know, you're actually feeding their growth, their ambitions, their goals and you can see them get excited about clients, businesses and it creates a really nice atmosphere within client and team dynamics.

Especially when we had team members that would be on Calls with clients and when they came on the team call, they would say, well, his shoulders used to be up here or he used to be really a bit snippy or a bit, you know, sharp.

But as he's seen the progress and his stress levels have gone down, his shoulders have gone down and he's, you know, he's calmer and he's more, what's the word when you.

Trust is not the right word, but they're more, they're happy to depend on you is what they are, you know, because they, you have, you've given them results, you know, you've sent them in the right direction and you've helped them out.

So yeah, so it's a win, win all, all around.

Yeah, for sure.

And it's something we should never forget actually the benefits of the team because, you know, I know I've spoken to so many accounting and bookkeeping practice owners over the last four or five years and one thing was very, one thing always repeated itself is that they always wanted to take care of their team, take care of their employees, take, you know, and that shows, I think it just shows the ethics of most accounting and book to be able to practice owners.

That's the values they have.

They've got a team they want to look after and it's very important to them to take care of them and so they can take care of their families.

And that ripple effect of that is really nice.

It's a nice feeling that you're doing something good as well, isn't it?

So I think that's a really important aspect of, of the advisory team scenario is like you say, you're going to be providing a long term sustainable career path for your team to be able to step into and to better continually develop.

Because as we know that when you continue to have conversations with people, when you continue to work with people in their business, you're learning as much by helping and guiding people and mentoring people.

You're still learning.

It has an actual positive effect on what you do and how you talk to people and how you talk to the next person that has a similar problem and how you can solve that problem quicker because you've dealt with that problem before.

So it has this positive effect all round.

So if you can spread that down to your team, then why not?

Why wouldn't you want to do that and why wouldn't you want to give your clients the best opportunity to achieve the best outcomes from having a pool of resources put together than just having to rely on one person who if that one person was unwell for which we don't want to happen, but it does happen, and then they're out of the business for a period of time.

What happens there?

Everything comes to a standstill.

The clients will move elsewhere because they have sympathy, but they'll only wait for so long.

Let's be honest about it.

You know, business is brutal sometimes, isn't it?

Yeah.

I always say, what would Michael E. Gerber say?

Yeah.

And that was all about the business owner does not do the delivery.

You know, it's having a team, because what are you?

Are you a technician or are you a business owner?

So.

Yeah.

And that's probably arguably the most popular entrepreneur book in my lifetime, I would say.

So.

Yeah.

How come us as accountants forget that?

Yeah.

And we carry on delivering?

Yeah.

Well, I think people get stuck in the day to day, stuck in the doing, stuck in the day to day.

But this is what I've always done, but this is how I do it myself.

No one else in the team is capable of doing what I'm doing because I've got all the knowledge.

Well, unfortunately, yes, you might be the most, you know, knowledgeable person, but it doesn't mean you have to do all the delivery because sharing that knowledge around the team and allowing the team, the ones that look at the numbers constantly, the ones that can pull out insights, the ones that can spot patterns, having all those people having a conversation before someone then delivers to the client or maybe or deliver to the client, who knows?

I think there's different ways of, ways of operating in that scenario, which we could talk about another time, but it doesn't need to be one person.

One person is, is the, is the big mistake this bma, and definitely within the last four or five years in the previous membership, I guided so many people and the same problem kept coming back and kept coming back.

Um, they were trying to do it themselves.

And it's so important to build that team and build that team to deliver so that it's not all on you and then you can have that freedom that you want.

Everyone says they want freedom from the business.

Everybody who, who runs their own business tells us they want freedom, want to be able to choose what they do next.

Well, the only way you can help yourself is to start to involve your team.

But, you know, everywhere, everything starts somewhere.

We have a lot of these conversations with accounting and booking and practice owners on our online sessions that we run every week.

We run those on Tuesdays at 9 o' clock and you can access them actually through our Facebook group.

Now, our Facebook group is called Advisory Teams and you can find that on Facebook.

If you just go into Facebook to search Advisory Teams and you'll probably see us pretty quickly.

I don't think there's any other groups called the same name, so just hit the join, but answer a few simple questions.

We will be happy to let you in, assuming you are an accountant and bookkeeping practice owner.

And we'd love to see you come and join the group and then give yourself the opportunity to come onto our online sessions.

They're all free to attend and we have these discussions all around these topics.

But when you're on those calls, we go a little bit deeper with you and we can give you a bit more kind of focus, support because we've learned about what's important to you and how your business runs.

So we'd love to see them on there, won't we, Deb?

We would, yeah, for sure.

Okay.

Well, thanks for joining us again this week.

Another exciting conversation all about the world of advisory.

I hope you're enjoying our podcast so far.

Please feel free to leave any comments or send us any messages as you see fit.

And if you've got any questions you want us to answer on future episodes, feel free to let us know.

Thanks for joining us again.

Thanks for listening to Advisory Conversations with Tim Seymour and Deb Halladay.

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We'll see you next time.

Sam.