This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into the question sitting under half the decisions we make… Do we have FOMO (fear of missing out) or JOMO (actual joy of missing out)?

Because there's always a moment, isn't there, where everyone you know is suddenly at the same event, building the same AI agent, or announcing they're taking the whole summer off, & you're sat there wondering if you should be too… and if you even want to be.

So we go through three of the:

Atomicon & big in-person events, & whether the time/energy/money is worth what you actually get out of it.

AI, & the difference between using it because it genuinely helps & using it because everyone else seems to be (Sophie's fancy morning briefing told her nothing she didn't already know).

And the summer holidays, whether we actually want to have the whole summer off & what we’re doing to prep for it.

Every time, the honest question is the same: is this actually for me, or am I just scared of being left out? And can I tell the difference between protecting my peace & chickening out?

In this episode:

• The FOMO/JOMO question we run past everything before saying yes, & how to tell protecting your peace apart from just bottling it
• Why Sophie burnt herself out on events in 2023, & the one kind of in-person thing she'd still say yes to every single time
• "Performing seal mode" & the foyer panic & the hidden cost of being the ‘sunshine’ in every room
• Using AI for the wrong thing: the briefings & agents that look productive but tell you nothing, & where it's actually worth it
• Fun mum summer & the 7-step plan Sophie's actually following (use the link below to get the plan!)

Mentioned in this episode:

Fun Mum Summer, Sophie's 7-step plan for working less without abandoning the business this summer. Comment FUNMUM on this Instagram post & Sophie-bot will DM you.

We also got into the AI law coming into force in August, where you'll need to disclose how you use AI with clients (that includes AI call recorders & ManyChat, not just Claude & ChatGPT).

I use & recommend Lucy Legal's resources for this. The toolkit gives you full guidance & training, or you can buy the policy on its own & fill it in yourself. Both are affiliate links, just so you know.

AI Legal Toolkit (£97): https://www.lucylegal.co.uk/a/2148134164/ZPrrYXQy

AI Policy (£47): https://www.lucylegal.co.uk/a/2148134165/ZPrrYXQy

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care with me, Sophie Griffiths

From me, Ruthie Walmsley

So in today's episode we are gonna be talking about, our big theme is do we

get JOMO, so the joy of missing out, or FOMO, the fear of missing out?

And this comes up, I think, in so many different areas of our lives.

So we're gonna be covering, Atomicon.

do we really wanna be there?

Should we really be there?

Or actually are we quite happy that we're not there?

And in-person events generally, should I care about going to them?

Or actually am I protecting my peace staying at home?

Then we're also gonna look at AI.

How are we using it?

How are we using it that's actually effective versus how are we using it

because it seems like that's how everybody else is using it, and so we should really

try and do it and save ourselves hours and hours of time when actually it's not

really having the impact that we want.

And then we're also gonna talk about the summer holidays, because I have very

strong opinions on whether we should care about how much we're working,

what the summer looks like, and whether actually looking at people who are in

other industries or even just in the same industry but taking loads of time

off, like do we actually want that?

Are we feeling like we're missing out by not taking the whole summer off?

Or actually are we feeling pretty pleased with ourselves that we've

managed to get a bit more of a balance?

So let's kick off.

Atomicon, give me your thoughts, Ruthie

Wow.

I've never been.

So firstly to say, I've never been, and every year obviously

there's that moment, isn't there?

Like maybe a week ago, two weeks ago, where it feels like everyone that

you fucking know online is there.

And my initial instinct is always FOMO.

I'm like, "Oh my God, if there's that many people going, it must be so good,

it must be so valuable that I need to be there." And so I follow it.

Then I go down like into a little bit of a dip where I'm like, "Gosh, that

looks like a lot." People seem to be at a whole host of talks, and events,

and socials, and then like I start getting a bit introverted and think,

"Actually, no, that's not for me.

That looks like way too much." Like I, I don't think I can handle that.

and then I normally go and click on the page, and then I look at the cost

and I start thinking… Because I feel like with Atomicon as well, everyone's

always buying their tickets, like they've, good job at getting people to

buy their tickets like 12 months out.

Yeah

I'm like, "Oh, I feel like I have to make a decision quite early on it." so then

I'm wondering, "Oh, should I go?" And it is just that balance, isn't it, of like

half of me is super chuffed I'm not there because I'm barefoot in my office with a

drink feeling like, "This is good for my nervous system." But I'm always trying to

wonder like, "Am I just chickening out?

Would it be good for my business?

What would I get from it?" So yeah, I think it's an interesting

thing to talk about, Atomicon and all other opportunities like that

that come out throughout the year.

Like, how do we balance I care about them, should I be going to them?.

Is the worthwhile-ness

Yeah

to how much time you're taking out for it and how much money you're spending on it?

It's really hard.

It is, I totally agree.

I think it's really hard, and I've definitely struggled with this, over

the years because I think, like you, people buy from me when they meet me

and when they, experience me in person.

So when I realized this was probably, probably, three or four years ago, I think

I realized this, when I went to a couple of, in-person days, events that were

held by, my coaches or whatever, so it felt quite safe, and I met maybe lots of

their other clients, and then, afterwards I'd get, two or three clients from it.

And at the time I was doing ads management, ads training, so it

was a really tangible skill that a lot of my peers really wanted.

so I was like, "Oh my God, this is an amazing strategy." I'm just gonna

go to loads of in-person events.

this is brilliant.

and it did work pretty well for a couple of years.

However, uh, 2023 was the year that I was doing this quite heavily, and

I went to Atomicon, and, I really burnt myself out going to far too

many events from two perspectives.

the first perspective being that, I find events really draining.

Although I'm a real people person, I'd say we're quite similar.

we're very loud, we're very bubbly, we're so chatty.

It's, big energy.

people often talk about, yellow energy that I have.

it's like that sunshine energy.

Love it, I love it when people say that it's

Yeah

know, you've got yellow energy or, you're, full of sunshine.

Mm.

to hear, isn't it?

It really is.

I know.

I'm really into it.

And I think what's really interesting though is that I feel like I probably

have to maintain that at - events, and therefore it's really fucking draining.

to be sunshine energy all the time, to be on all the time is a lot,

especially if I don't have people there that I know really well.

So if I'm feeling like I'm almost like me in my own little bubble, I

don't know that many people deeply.

because I'm not very good at small talk.

I don't really enjoy it.

I really wanna just get deep really quickly.

So to have to maintain small talk for a lot of people, I just…

it's just absolutely exhausting.

So 2023, I went to Atomicon as part of a big plan to be more

visible, go to loads of events.

I think the biggest challenge with Atomicon is, the distance.

So I'm in like the south of England.

so to get to Newcastle is it's basically a full day's travel up there.

mission

have, yeah, you have the f- the fringe of, the pre-party events, like the night

before, then you've got the full day, then you've got the party after the

full day, and then the Wednesday you've basically got a full day coming home.

And the biggest challenge I had within my business at that point as

well was it wasn't just the events I was going to, the time I was taking

out, the money, it was that I didn't really have any systems or team in

the background to keep the business running while I was out the business.

So it was like I didn't get any days off for doing that.

I just had three days worth of work that I had to then catch up on in

like the two days at the end of the week that I was absolutely exhausted.

So I guess got put off a little bit.

I got a bit burnt, I think, from going to too many events, and it wasn't

really Atomicon specifically's fault, but I did find Atomicon, I'd say that

was like when I look back at that year, it was like the pinnacle of the

overwhelm of the events because it just is a lot, and it was so far to

travel, and I didn't really know anyone.

, When people are sharing on social as well, I'm sure, it is on my list

of something to try, definitely.

people are always sharing it in, sharing videos of themselves

in, a foyer it looks like.

a meet-and-greet style.

it looks like people are mooching around and talking to each other.

The armpit sweat that I generate at the thought of that is next level.

Yeah

Ev- when everyone's "Oh my God, look who I bumped into," or… even just, I'm

like, "Oh my God, this looks awful." the idea of, "Oh, like, just come and say hi.

We've got, a little 20 minutes in between.

You can just talk…" Oh my gosh.

I would… I know that I would be like, "I'm just gonna pop to the

loo, get myself a drink." so I think it can be intimidating as well,

Yeah

I sometimes think that when, and this isn't specific to Atomicon,

it's any of these big events, there's a few of them, isn't there,

where people seem to go in little

Yeah

It can feel intimidating, a little bit high school-y.

Yeah

group of people, that if I'm gonna go on my own, how do I that?" And I

actually saw, who I follow online, Get Wildly Free, she did, a really

So

of, the steps that she took to try and make this not feel, really overwhelming.

like she, she dipped out of quite a few things and stuff.

But yeah, I think if I'm being real with myself as well, there's

some definite fear about going to those sorts of things on my own.

I am a bit scared, and I'm a confident person.

wouldn't come across as somebody who would be nervous to be in those

sorts of situations, but I just know that I really have to ramp myself

up for it and be, like, switched on.

I, I said to you earlier, my, my family call it performing seal mode.

Like, when I'm trying so hard

Yeah

in the room and make everyone like me.

The person that my family get for the days after is just, a little bit grumpy.

Yeah.

Oh, like 100%.

Even for me, even just going to London, like it's only an hour on the train,

but if I'm going into London, like I have to really want to go because it's,

that evening and probably the next day I will need like a full recovery day.

I can't really function properly.

It's just such a drain.

And I totally get what you mean.

Like I saw someone saying "Yeah, I just, you just wander around the foyer

and all the people that you know, and then you just like, go into the

different talks with people." Honestly, like I think back now, I was so brave.

I like, I was so brave because I just went up on my own.

I didn't really know anyone.

I just assumed that I would find people.

And I definitely, there were some breaks where I just went and sat like in the

loos, like you say, gave myself tasks to do, went and got a drink, like sorted

myself out because I just didn't have the energy to go and make small talk.

and then going to sit with people in the talks, I'm like, "Oh, do they mind

if I sit with them? Or is this a bit weird?" Or "I don't wanna sit on my

own. Can I just attach myself to this group?" Like I know it sounds ridiculous.

And I think the-

It does though, and I think if we're feeling it, Soph, like

we're, know, relatively mouthy.

Yeah.

Yes

we're feeling it, I think other people must be feeling it as well.

it does have that element of starting a new school and wondering whether you're

allowed to sit somewhere or if oh my God, are they saving it for someone

'cause they seem to be in a big group?

of those things I find… it does put me off a little bit

Yeah.

I think I would like to go again to Atomicon.

I think I would like to go because I know a lot more people now.

However, I would want to go with a group so that I would

say… maybe we'll go next year.

I would even- I wouldn't- yeah.

I know some people that go, like they get like an Airbnb, and so they have

their own separate space rather than being in a hotel room, and they make

it like a little like girls weekend or like girls break or whatever.

I think I would quite like that.

I think the downside of that though is that if I'm going to meet new people,

if I'm going with a group, I'm not very good at then being like, " Oh, okay.

I'll see you guys back here," then I'm gonna go mingle. I'll just be

like, I've got my group, so I'm very happy to sit with them and

that's all I really want to do."

Let's move together as a

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

one else.

Yeah

I- weirdly, my, my niece went for her, like a move update.

She's starting high school

Oh,

and her best friend were put in different forms, and she

was like, "I'm just so upset.

I really wanted us to be in the same form." And I said, "I think

it…" I- as I was giving her the advice, I should definitely listen.

But I said, I think actually it's a good thing because I think sometimes when

we've got a security blanket, we don't… You know, perhaps you'll make a few more

friends more easily because you're not just sitting with your best friend."

'Cause sometimes you can become like a little closed unit and stuff.

And I

Yeah

that would definitely be my easy option, would

Yeah

then go on, go with somebody I know, stick together, go to all the talks together,

maybe pay lip service to having little chats with people, but on the whole,

just go on, a little tour with my friend.

Yeah

have you… Did you find it… So in terms of the value then, what

do you perceive the value to be?

You've done way more, not just Atomicon, networking events , than I have.

what do you perceive the value to be?

I think, what I've learnt along the way is that I don't love

multi-speaker events because I find that they are generally quite shallow.

it's not a reflection on the speaker, it's more that, if you have 10 people

that have 40 minutes, there's only so much depth you can go into in 40 minutes.

And I find that quite hard to be bombarded with, 10 different things that I should

be doing, but it's all very high level.

you should be doing email marketing, so here's, 40 minutes on email marketing.

I'm being like, "Okay, that was helpful." But I think in all honesty as well,

because I have been, in the online industry for such a long time, and I'm

not at beginner level, I do find a lot of it is, aimed at, people starting.

So talking about, getting your email list up and running and stuff like

that, and I'm like, I don't need, I don't really need that information.

I guess I'm not at a point where I need a lot of new information.

I know what my strategies are.

I know how I'm gonna grow the business.

I know what I wanna be doing.

And, I'm always looking for ways of, like, amplifying that and new

ideas, but I don't really need to sit on a talk about Substack.

Do you know?

Because I don't wanna do Substack.

I don't need to know about Substack.

so I think I've struggled with multi-speaker events.

however, what I have found I loved are things like retreats, mastermind days.

days where you're with one group, one or two people leading it, and you go deep,

and you really get into, like, a very specific strategy or a very specific

thing, or it's, totally immersive.

I love those days.

Those are, like, my favorite kind of events

suppose as well Because one of the things , that has put me off historically is that I

know that I am like, "Oh, that's an idea. Oh, that's an I can get super distracted

by what other people are doing, thinking, I need to do that then." So then that

becomes my strategy for 10 minutes, and then someone else says something else, and

that becomes my strategy for 10 minutes.

Whereas I suppose the difference with things like retreats and stuff is

actually it's what they are actually doing is creating spaciousness more,

and time for, thinking and application, which is hard to do on your own.

so I can d- I definitely can see the value in both and, like,

I d- it's not to say that I…

I think there's so much I can still learn, and I do think that, someone

in my, local area's putting on, a, an event, and I was like, "Oh, I should

make myself go really." And she's super lovely, and I think she does a

great job online, and she's, really trying to build, a community of people.

I thought I should so go.

It's, on my doorstep.

But I just didn't

Yeah

I think my joy of missing out has started to run a little bit deeper than it should

It's really hard though, isn't it?

When you know, you're gonna be impacted.

you're gonna be tired,… you're gonna get to that point, and I'm the same.

I think I have so much on in my life.

There is so much going on with the business and the kids and life, that

… I know that I'll get to the point and be like, "Oh, why did I sign up for this?

For goodness sake." I don't really wanna go.

I would say generally, picking the right events is really key.

And I think knowing why you're going to the event.

probably going to the event to support that woman is probably

not a strong enough hook for you.

But if you'd have known that maybe there were gonna be two or three people

there that you wanted to connect with.

So for me, it's either is the networking gonna be good enough that

it will introduce me to people that I really want to speak to, or that

I've been chatting online to and I would love to meet in real life.

That's always a big driver for me.

Or is, yeah, the information, the space, the, the tangible thing of what

I'm gonna walk away with, big enough.

And I think for me, the issue with Atomicon is I'm not desperate to go

for the information, because it doesn't lead on one big thing other than you'll

learn loads of stuff about marketing.

it's not enough of a hook for me specifically, and I feel

like the networking's always oh, it's so overwhelming.

I'd have to go with a friend, and then would I make the most of the networking?

I think if I went it would be because I was like, okay, enough

of, like, my clients, my peers, my former clients, my online community.

If enough of those people I knew were going, I think I would … That would

be my reason for going, and I think that would probably be a strong enough

reason if I could, maybe, yeah, have, an Airbnb with a few people that I

knew and, plan it out really nicely.

But I think it's really identifying, , why you're going to something and

making sure you double down on, getting what you want out of it.

Yeah, I think that's a really good shout, and I think you're probably right about

that event - that's happening in my area.

I think I probably haven't got enough of a justification.

I was reading this really good report actually, out at the beginning of the

year by the Selfhood, The Selfhood.

It was her free, like a lead magnet, but it was great, about how, like the

pendulum swing of AI is essentially community and in-person, and I do

think there's a thirst for that.

Like I put on my in-person events last year because I just wanted to

be in a room with people, actually quite a nice amount of people.

Like it's

Yeah

We can spend the day together, get some stuff done, but actually it's giving me

a moment to actually connect with people.

And I do think that we can in the online business space, we

can undervalue in-person can sit alongside we're doing online.

Because online's so easy, isn't it?

You can be like, "Okay, I'm gonna just jump on a Zoom with someone."

But there is something magical about being in the same room as people and

being able to talk in a different way.

like in-person conversation is so different to online conversation.

Like even now as we're talking on this, we're having to orchestrate really

structured turn-taking, which is something that turns up naturally in conversation.

When you're in a group setting, - you're able to pick up on so many more of the

natural pauses to let conversation flow in kind of a bit more of a, natural way.

So yeah, I definitely wanna, in 2027 maybe, give myself a target to have

a couple of things that I'm gonna try and do person, even if it's

just co-working with somebody on a semi-regular basis so that you've just

got a little bit of opportunity to chat

Yeah.

So I introduced in person to my programs, the Mastermind and Inevitable, that

we had two night retreats and then we had in person days every quarter.

And I think that was like transformational, like the connection

and community, in particular the retreat, like obviously two days, two

nights, that built was absolutely wild.

And I do think it massively accelerated their results because spending two

days with someone, it helps, me as the coach really understand them and

understand their drivers and why they're doing it and what they need from me.

But also, like they were able to support each other as a group so

much more effectively than getting turn-taking on a Zoom every other

week and getting some Slack stuff.

being in the room and being able to like, yeah, have deep conversations,

but also talk about like Korean skincare and, books with like vampires

and dragon smut and… Exactly, yeah.

Like we talked about, and talking about like our families and kids and just

like really, just normal chit-chat that actually builds such a deep connection.

And I think that's what you miss when you don't do in person stuff,

is like you just don't get that level of depth with someone.

Like you could have, you could be friends with someone like on Instagram

for a year and then meet them for an hour and have a totally different type

of relationship just in that one hour.

So I do think in person is really important, but I think it's just picking

the type of event, I think, that really works for you and making sure that you can

give yourself, self the space to enjoy it and not feel like you're cramming it in,

'cause that just feels really rubbish.

do, you've done a fair few, like gone on retreats

嗯。

gone on… like I, I definitely haven't, and I always wrestle with the, like the

money of it if I'm completely honest, I'm like, "Oh, can I justify? Will I get

enough out of it? Could I disciplined and create to hold that space for myself?"

And I'm interested to know, and I think other people would if they're

perhaps in a position where they haven't invested in that sort of thing,

like what, th- thinking specifically about retreats, like what is it when

You've been to one as a person, like as a business owner, not the host,

Yeah.

do you get out of it?

I think I, it's definitely the space.

most of the ones I've been on have been about a week in total, whether

that's, including traveling or not, but I've been away for a week.

And so it's actually,, this is because I have my own challenges with boundaries,

but, part of me needs to have an excuse to say to my clients, "I'm away.

I'm not I'm on retreat." I'm on retreat.

Everybody gets that.

It's very clear.

It's a very firm boundary.

And so it's like it gives me that ability to be away, and really just take the time

to think about the business, but also without having the children, without it

being, like, holiday but at home, where I'm actually, then getting caught up and

actually, "Oh, you've got a week off," so "I wanna see my sister, and I might

do this." it's definitely having that space and intentionality to be like,

I'm gonna take a look at my business and do some, bigger picture thinking

about really where I wanna go." And then generally, I would say, the coaches that

I've gone on, I've chosen their approaches 'cause they really align with mine.

So I've been on two of Alice Benham's.

those were really good.

Although her approach to mine is really similar, having someone lead you through

it is very different than you leading yourself through it, and challenging you.

And, I guess being in the same room and hearing other people's, big

visions is really inspirational.

And, sometimes I think I get my biggest, "Oh my god, yeah, I can bloody do that,"

when I see other people being like, "Oh, next year I wanna bring in a million

pounds." And I'm like, "Fuck yes.

Oh my God, if she can bring in a million pounds, like, why the hell can I not?"

there is something really amazing about that depth and connection over that week.

It's just, it's so intense.

, But it's really lovely

yeah, it is space and time, isn't

Yeah

as business owners both of us are mums, both of us, we were just saying at the top

of the call, are, like really ambitious and wanna do well but also want to have

time to live our lives and, enjoy it and

Yeah

feel like incredibly hard work.

And so I think, it is always just trying to find opportunities, and

I'm rubbish at it, to have space and time to think about my business.

I made a promise to myself.

Actually, I'm in , Alice Benham's On It,

yeah.

yeah

at the beginning of the year did this great exercise and I was

like, "Wouldn't it be cool if…"

Oh yeah, I love exercise

wouldn't it be cool if I kept Fridays to just work on my business?

And I've done it once.

So that's going really well.

No.

It's a great intention.

I think the challenge is, though, with that sort of thing it's

the intentionality around it.

It's like how important is that to you?

And then, what do you need to put in place to actually make that happen?

Because a lot of the time it's really easy to be like, "Oh, just block your diary.

Just say, you're not taking calls on a Friday." But actually , the reason

why you're working isn't because you wanna work or because, you can't block

your diary out, it's probably because you're like, I need to earn money.

I've taken on too many clients. I need to do my own marketing." actually,

the whole thing is, I don't actually have the systems or structures or feel

safe enough to only work four days.

And I think that's the conversation that's missing so often

with, big ambitions like that

It's so true.

And I think, this might lead us into what we wanted to talk about with AI

Yeah

we're constantly trying to balance like the reality of having a business.

Because I think online so often we see these highlight reels, don't we?

These shortcut versions that fit in neatly into a, 90-second

reel of people's businesses.

And we're not often given full access to what it takes to get there and

嗯。

other people are balancing and yes, I am really ambitious.

I wanna really do well with my business.

I want it to be super successful.

I also want to work less, I don't want to apologize for that, and I want to

be able to have systems in place that mean not everything has to go through me

because I'm like, I'm such a blocker for so many things in my business because

I make sure everything goes through me.

And so one of the things that we were talking about with AI is

are we using it the right way?

using it?

Can we use it in ways that are smarter that will allow us , to have that

balance that we- we're looking for?

Yeah.

And I think I have really changed how I use and how I'm using AI, over

the last probably, six months or so.

I've been using Claude for quite a long time, probably a good couple

of years now, and initially it was very much was just that, like, chat.

"Can you help me with this?" "Can I get better prompts?

Can I do this?" And then obviously at the beginning of the year, Claude Cowork

came out, and it was like suddenly oh my God, this whole world opened up, I

think, to what actually is possible.

And I think the trouble is, is sometimes when so many things are

possible, it's very hard to narrow down what is actually useful for you.

And I know that I've definitely spent a lot of time setting things up, these,

amazing automations or, debriefing and creating these insane, skills

documents or, briefs for AI that are gonna allow me to just create content,

in the click of a button every single week, the content's just gonna drop

in and I'll just have to create it.

And the reality is, you know, if we just go back to my GCSE days when

I spent a lot more time creating my beautiful colored revision plans than

I actually did doing the revision, it feels a little bit like that.

It feels a little bit like I can have quite a lot of fun for a couple of

hours thinking that I'm being very productive when actually, is what I'm

doing really the best way to use AI?

I would say probably the biggest shift I've made is moving away from using it for

my content, because I think I definitely got drawn in by, all the content around,

like, you know, you can just click a button and you create 20 posts in, in

five minutes, and all you have to do is create all this, background stuff.

But the reality is that whenever I do a post that is just literally me

off the cuff typing into my phone and posting it, those are the ones

that do the best every single time.

And

Absolutely

I think I got to a point where I'm like, maybe that's why I only posted

five times in May, was like, I just wanna post those when they come.

I don't wanna be sitting, wrangling Claude for three hours trying

to get this carousel in my voice when actually, it's not, probably

not gonna do very well anyway.

Like-

And when you see those ones at the minute and it's

Yeah

this cl- this carousel was created by Claude and it took

Yeah.

seconds and I've altered it.

And I'm like, "I can

yeah.

Yes, babe, we know.

it.

I've read it and I've moved on because I'm not clicking like.

And

Yeah

I think the thing with AI is that at the moment it is so overwhelming

in the online business space.

It's like shiny object syndrome on steroids.

It's, "Oh my God, maybe I need to build an agent that's gonna run my finances for

me and make sure that I've always saved the perfect amount of tax," or, "Maybe I'm

gonna set up this automation," that means that, yeah, as you say, like I never have

to think about a piece of content ever again, it just drops it into my inbox.

I found myself the other morning thinking I needed a morning briefing.

I'd seen about the morning briefings.

They are often very pretty.

I'm

Yes.

Oh.

God, I don't want popping into my inbox.

Yeah.

is it gonna tell me,

Yeah.

meetings today.

You need to work."

Yeah., I did try and set up a morning, like a morning briefing one, and yeah,

it just told me what I already knew.

I was like, "I don't think my business is this complex." I don't

think I need a morning briefing, and like I don't need industry info.

that's honestly just not how I run my business.

I'm

yeah

not that bothered.

I just,

That's so the same.

I was like, "Oh, I feel my business is not of that size." And I think I

Yeah

I can totally see how for some people that would be so useful.

Big teams, up-to-date industry information.

I can see how that would be so great.

But for me I was like, as I started making it, I was like, "Mm,

don't really need to know that.

Don't really need to know…" So not necessary.

And I- that's the problem.

I think it's, it's that FOMO feeling again that we were talking about earlier.

It's "Oh, God, they're doing that.

Do I need to do that?

Oh, my God, they're doing that.

Do I need to do that?"

Yeah

I think, gosh, it is changing the landscape every single day, isn't it?

what we thought we were gonna be using AI for six months ago has

Oh my God.

changed.

I don't even know what it's gonna be like in another six months.

I'm parts excited and terrified about it

Yeah

all.

But our conversation you and I were having, it's like I'm really

nervous of, being clever is super important to my identity.

Yeah

relish being the most articulate person I can be.

so I'm constantly like, "Is my brain getting smaller? am I getting thicker? Am

I outsourcing too much of my thinking or my creativity?" And so the shift that I've

made, or I'm trying to consciously make as we're using these tools for more time,

is to like, okay, what can I give it?

What can I be doing that isn't about my thinking, isn't about who

I am as a person or my creativity?

It's just the shit that I don't wanna do that is admin or that, previously

maybe I would have outsourced.

Is there a way that I can utilize it in that way?

But also, you and I were, was just starting a chat of can we use it

rather than, focusing on all of these reels that we see about how we can

use it in our business, like, how can we use it in our personal lives?

We are

Yeah

women carrying the most humongous mental load,

Yeah

to do everything and be great at everything, and I hardly ever think,

what can I do in my personal life that is going to remove… And I saw one--

Sorry, I'll stop talking in a minute.

But saw one I told you about where this lady just took a photo.

She'd connected Claude Cowork to diary.

Yeah

a photo of, the letter from school that tells you what dates are

coming up in your kids' school week

yeah

and then she said, "Search this for all the information on class whatever,

and then add it to my diary, and then add a reminder three days before so I

don't forget." And she'd done it for things like birthdays, everything.

She had just taken photos.

Rather than sitting painstakingly thinking, "Shit, I need to add that to my

diary," she just got that off her plate.

And I think, God, how much thinking and breathing space would it create

women in business if we used it for that as a priority rather than thinking

about, how can I create content in four minutes when actually that's a

pretty important thing to do yourself?

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

And, , I'm pretty sure it was, Denise Duffield-Thomas who said about how

when she was building her business and scaling her business, when the more

money she got and the more she earned, the more she invested in her home.

So actually her business, she didn't invest huge amounts in terms of

outsourcing or team or anything like that.

She actually invested in things like someone to cook her meals, someone to

do her washing, someone to clean her house, someone to, yeah, put stuff in her

diary, like whatever it w- this is back in the day, so you know, way before AI.

But, I think I love that approach in terms of thinking of your life

and how can I make my life easier.

And I do think, , when we decided, my husband, this time last year, started his

part-time working in his corporate role, that was very much us looking at our lives

of like, how can we make our lives easier, not just the responsibility on me to try

and make my business more efficient, less time, less pressure on us, less overwhelm.

It was like, actually, can we take a look at our whole life and work out how we can

use these different things to help us?

And I think, AIs could be so key in that

Isn't it interesting and this is like opinion of

嗯。

but isn't it interesting that our first, my first instinct is how can I

edit my business , and my working life to better suit, support family life?

how challenging I personally find it , to reverse that.

Yeah

I think, you can see it loads with bro marketing, can't you?

That actually what they've done really successfully is blend it.

Yeah

"Oh, no, working out is absolutely fundamental to the success of

being a great businessman." reading is absolutely fundamental to the

success of being a great businessman.

Whereas I think for women it's so much more complicated than that.

There's so much more to unpick,

Yeah

Like, even how many notes I'm running at any given time of lists of things to do.

Yeah

got a list of things to do in my head that I wanna do with the house, things

I've noticed that are snagged, like I need to paint things or correct things.

Things I need to do to keep the house running.

Things that are coming up in my little boy's school diary that

mean he has to have a different PE kit or, all the random stuff.

like they need to take a plastic bottle in today or a

Yeah.

or Whatever it might be.

could we use AI to consolidate that?

Yeah

if all you had to do was just speak into your phone and it added to

the list and put it into categories for you and added it to an Notion

board or whatever it might be?

Even as I'm saying that out loud, I'm like, "Why haven't I done that?"

Yeah.

And also, wouldn't… I did see something again, like I do get targeted with

these on Instagram 'cause it does know that I want to do this sort of stuff.

But actually, having a joint Notion board with your partner, that then you

end up having almost a weekly meeting.

Like, why are we not treating like our, not our relationships in terms of our home

life, but almost like the management of house as you would part of your business.

you wouldn't just not do it or hope that it happens.

You'd have a rhythm, a system, something that you both, buy

into and both kind of agree.

I do think that would be massively…

that, you

Have you?

Yeah

Some of our friends, they have an AGM.

I absolutely love it.

They have an AGM, and they have all these little systems, like every New Year's

Day or the day after New Year's Day,

they throw away 100 items every year or, donate them to

charity or whatever, sell them,

Yeah.

yeah

to start the year off, they have this every year process

that they just clear out.

If I'm getting this wrong, Jess, sorry.

but yeah, they clear out or sell it and just have this process in

place and they have their AGM.

, I think, they go out for dinner, and they'll talk about,

what they wanna do each year.

And actually, my sister's, My sister's really successful in corporate,

and similar to you, her husband actually, left his corporate job,

started up his own business, and works part-time because they were in the

position where something had to give.

It was so stressful, and they were like, "How can we better do this together?"

And they've started going on a walk on a Monday morning, with the dog, and it

turned into, a weekly team meeting with what do we need to get done this week?

What's coming up for the girls?" what can we… And I just think,

it's such a good idea, isn't it?

Because so much of what causes, me personally stress is, the

stuff I'm trying to do in duality.

I'm trying to run the house, make sure that, me and my husband are on top of

things, that Will's got everything he needs, that we're having a nice time,

that we're spending quality time together, whilst also setting myself ambitious

targets about what I wanna do with work.

and processes bit just doesn't exist

Yeah.

my own life.

It's

I'm, we're exactly the same.

We do, Pete and I have had the intention of, we should do, a, yeah, a weekly

meeting, a weekly walk or something.

And I h- it's it's a bit like you with the Fridays, taking the Fridays off.

we've had the intention since, last September, and I just, it just, we had

done it a couple of times, and it just doesn't seem to ever quite happen.

And I know that is, like I said earlier, it's 'cause we're not prioritizing it.

We're obviously not making it enough of a priority, and yet it really is.

And it's, it is really annoying, isn't it?

'Cause you think, "Oh yeah, that'd be so nice, but that's not for me," or, "Oh,

we don't really work like that," or, "Oh, we can't do that, we're too busy."

But I wouldn't accept that kind of bullshit, , from myself in my business.

I wouldn't accept that, saying to myself, "Oh, you're not the type of person that

could do that. You're not disciplined enough for that. You're not, you couldn't

have a weekly meeting." what the fuck?

Of course I can have a weekly meeting.

Yeah.

so funny that I do it.

Yeah.

Isn't it funny the stories we tell ourselves in different parts of our lives?

oh, I can be really organized and successful in my business, but

my home life, apparently I can't get myself on top of the admin.

Just can't

Honestly, and I think that's why I really want to be

thinking about how can I use AI.

Yeah, I wanna use it in my business, and actually I set up a couple of things that

are really working for me, that are doing things like gathering testimonials for

me, which I'm never in the good habit of.

It doesn't need to be me.

Actually, AI will probably do a more thorough job of scanning through

my Slack channels with my clients to see what they've said that's

positive, and pulling it into a notion board, and it does it without me,

and that's fabulous, and I love it.

And, keeping a track of things, keeping a record of things, I

don't need to be doing that.

It's not outsourcing any of my creativity or thinking or brain power.

Actually, it's just removing something from my list of things

to do and I'm, like, challenging myself to constantly think rather

than just following what pops up,

Yeah

I need a financial advisor agent?

but is it a priority?

Probably not.

like, how can I use AI to do the things I don't wanna be

doing, but also in my home life?

wanna get myself using AI to minimize, because actually so much

admin in running a family, joint.

Not, I'm not saying I do it all on my own, but there's so much admin.

what could I be doing with AI that would take some of that?

I think that would be really cool, and I wonder how many of us are doing it.

Please send us your ideas.

God, send us your ideas.

We'll share them next week, slash we'll implement them and , give you our reviews.

I think - one area I could massively benefit from, or we could in our family,

is meal planning because we basically eat the same like rotation of some sort

of variation of seven or eight meals.

And I find it almost impossible to think of new meals.

isn't it?

It's just so awful having to cook every single day.

And like we've done things like we've done Gousto, like we've done

HelloFresh, like we've done them all.

And like I do enjoy them when we do them, but they, even they get samey, and then

I'm like, then we end up not using them.

Sophie.

It's all the little… It's pieces of fucking cutlery and stuff I have to use.

I'm

Yeah.

I've used 17 bowls.

I've got to

Yeah.

dishwasher loads on.

Yeah

also, for me, yeah, they got a bit samey after a

Yeah.

is rich for me

Yeah

like, we eat the same rotation of about eight meals.

So yeah.

But meal planning 100%

Yeah, I think I might try that.

food wastage.

One of my friends, he was saying that he takes… He's a great cook, and he

takes a picture of his cupboard, and he takes a picture of his fridge and

is like, "What can I still make? What should I buy? What should I shop, to

make the most of what I've already got?"

Yeah

he's, he wants it to go shopping in his cupboards first before he

goes shopping to the shops, and I think that's clever as well.

Because sometimes I'm, like, buying things that I've got five,

Yeah.

Oh my God.

You would not believe how many cumins we have.

Because I never know if we've got cumin, and so I'm like, "I'll just get it just

in case." I don't even… I don't think I hardly use it, but for, obviously for some

recipe we use it that I think every time, "I'll just grab one." I wonder if I could

use it actually for our outdoor freezer, because once something goes in the

freezer of doom in the garage, it's very unlikely that it's coming back out again.

And actually, maybe if I, loaded into Claude what's in there, it could maybe

prompt me each week with, "Why don't you use that very nice meal that you,

batch cooked and left in the freezer that you're never going to look at again?" That

could maybe… Maybe I'll try that one.

That might work.

And run an inventory for you.

Yeah

I think we should be doing.

Because it's not just like making life easier, it's for me, the

self-talk that accompanies it.

So like when my washing basket is overflowing, I'm like, "I'm failing."

"Fucking hell, why can't you just stay on top of your washing, Ruth?

You know you feel better about life when your washing basket's not

overflowing." I'm not someone who can just have a reckless abandon for it.

It stresses me out.

So it's the negative self-talk that takes up space as well.

It's every time you go to your cupboard and you've got 17 cumins,

I know

like a little voice in your head going, "Fucking hell, Sophie,

why have you got so many cumins?

You barely even use it." so I think it's not just as simple as it

being like, "Oh God, don't make a big deal out of it, girls." that.

it's freeing up time for us to be performing at our best.

It's removing some of the stress of things that we're just silently carrying

without any process attached to it.

And it's just like giving ourselves a bit of a break from the negative

self-talk that comes along with feeling like you are failing at running your

family or running your house smoothly.

Yeah.

that's really powerful

Yeah.

Oh, I 100% agree.

And I think actually it leads us on really nicely to summer, because I do think, the

generally speaking, and like we've made a lot of shifts in our house, so I don't

think this is true for me really anymore.

But generally, over the years I have found that, the summer holidays as

the self-employed, partner in our marriage, the default is basically,

either you're looking after them or you're organizing childcare.

And like obviously he'd get involved a bit with the childcare, but not really.

basically time off to go to work, to go on holiday.

and then it was down to me to basically either have them or look after-

or find someone else to have them.

And I think there's that real pull as, we all know the fucking how

many summers you have with them or whatever, the 18 summers thing, I know.

And that, we, we wanna be having fun with them, we wanna be spending time

with them, but at the same time, we've also spent the rest of the year building

up these incredible businesses that for me as well, like financially, I can't

just abandon my business, unless it was a massive intention of mine that

I was planning for the entire year and I really wanted to be able to do that.

I would be able to do it, but it would have to be an intention.

what if we actually could have… Like, my guy said to you, I keep seeing stuff

all the time about, soft girl summers and, like analog summers and I'm like,

"Oh babe, I love that for you," but like I am a millennial mom with two kids

and a dog, and a, and a chaotic house.

I feel like I just want a bloody lovely summer.

I want like a fun mom summer.

I,

I love this

yeah, I wanna show up as fun mom.

I don't wanna be, like, feeling the whole summer a bit put out when they're

at home because I really need to get on with something and a bit like,

"Oh, can you just go and entertain yourselves 'cause I've got stuff to do?"

I want to have flexibility, I wanna have space, I want to have fun with them, but

I also, I don't wanna abandon my business.

I do wanna be working.

I want both

It's really hard, isn't it?

Because I think, again, we get shown so much on social media, and around

this time there is always people saying that they take August off or

Yeah

holidays off.

And actually, that's amazing.

absolutely power to you, if your business works that way and if that works for you.

I don't think it does work for me, for a number of reasons.

I stop, it's really hard for me to get momentum back.

I used to be a teacher.

Obviously I used to have six weeks off.

I

Yeah

teaching friends having their six weeks off, and actually my first instinct is,

"Oh my God, they've got six weeks off." "Ugh, I gave that up." But actually

you know, as a teacher, I was so bloody burnt out by the time that summer came

round that normally what happened is for the first two weeks I was ill,

Yeah

have two weeks off, and then for the two weeks before I was prepping

to go back and making sure that I'd got lessons and stuff like that.

So you know, it's easy to idealize the concept of something, is what I mean.

actually for me, if I do take massive chunks of time off, it takes

me such a long time to get back into the like, what was I doing?

what's my job?

do I care about?

Because I've just leant too far the other way, and I think what's better for

me is I love my work, keeping a toe in.

But like you say, being able to have flexibility, able to

create some spaciousness for fun.

I do that feeling of harassed, like you don't get it, I've

just got to get this done.

And I'm like, "Wilf," he's football mad, so I'm like, "Just go and kick

a ball against the wall for an hour.

I'll be there.

I've just got a call." And I think, God, he must be so sick of hearing that.

And so one of the things I wanna try and do in the summer is, create in my brain,

planned out structure, because I know

Yeah.

that, it works better.

Rather than it being like, oh, I'm doing a bit of work today,

and will do something fun.

Instead it being like, I'm working for this block of time, and then

I'm not working for that block of time, and finding a balance that way.

What does fun mum summer like for you?

what are you imagining with this, Soph?

I know, I was thinking this, 'cause I'm the same as you.

I don't want to not work.

I love my work, and in all honesty, don't actually think I want six weeks

off with my two children and not working because no, it's a lot, right?

It is a lot.

And I think also we can really, like you say, we can really idealize what

that actually would look like, this idyllic, "Oh, it'd be so wonderful,

and we'd have all these adventures, and it would be so great." I know

that with my children that is very unlikely, a good chunk of the time.

So I think what I want is the same as you.

I actually just want really strong boundaries.

So I want to … I'm not gonna be working Mondays and Fridays.

I'm gonna be working probably 10 till 3 Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

I'm gonna have a whole week off at the end of July, 'cause it's also my

birthday and we're going on holiday.

And

what birthday is it, Sophie?

Just for the

It's for the audience at home.

It's my 40th.

Whoop, whoop.

I know.

I can't quite believe it.

so yeah, we're gonna be away for that, which is gonna be really nice.

but yeah, and I, then I think I also want to know that my revenue is locked in.

So quite a big priority for me is gonna be making sure in June and July

that I know what numbers I need to hit . 'cause I know the worst thing

for me is, I can do my client work and my marketing stuff in, Tuesday,

Wednesday, Thursday, in those hours.

That will not be a problem at all.

What the problem will be is if I feel this niggle of, "I need to earn more money.

I need to get more clients in.

I just need to do an extra Instagram post.

I just need to do a few stories.

I just need to send an email." That's the, insidious stuff that,

seeps in for me, like, all through.

And for me, fun mum summer, when she's not working, is totally not working,

has the space in her diary.

So what I'm not doing is, taking on a load of new clients where I'm doing one-to-ones

with them so that I don't have a diary where it's like that Tuesday, Wednesday,

Thursday is packed, which means that then if suddenly they are at home or we wanna

go to, the beach to, for an evening, dinner or something, I can't do that.

"Oh, I can't do that 'cause I've got loads of calls booked in." I wanna

have the flexibility , it's not even necessarily about the volume of time,

but it's that flexibility, I think

Yeah.

And actually hearing you talk, it's got me thinking because actually,

you've already put together the framework in your head there.

You're saying,. you already know on June the 21st or 24th as we record, I'm

not working Mondays, I'm not working Fridays, and on Tuesday, Wednesday,

Thursday I'm working reduced hours.

that's, the first step, isn't it, of, protecting that boundary?

I haven't done that yet.

I'm like, "Oh, I'm definitely gonna, but what am I gonna do?" And I think I'm just

aware that - boundaries are just something that I constantly struggle to set because

I just don't wanna let anybody down.

But actually I think when I start letting people down is when I

haven't put those boundaries in place and there's not that clarity.

Yeah

in some of your containers and stuff, you are good at that, I think.

You are good at expressing clearly, what you're doing and li- laying it

out for everybody, and in doing so yourself to that, boundary as well

Yeah,.

and I do think, like I, I do try and be really clear with my boundaries as

much as, because it holds me to that standard, as much as it is for them.

'cause once I've said, "Oh, I'm going away for a week at the end of July,

it's my 40th birthday, like I won't be working at all." what the fuck am

I gonna look like if I then turn up in Slack and I'm like, oh, I just saw this.

I wanna check you're okay." Or, "Oh, let me just give you a bit of feedback on

your strategy." I'm totally undermining myself and the kind of, you know, I

want them to see me role modeling it as much as I want to do it for myself.

So I think that really helps, make sure that I actually do it

Yeah.

And I think as well, like, I've really learnt this year actually, and it-

I've learnt it as I've been teaching it, is that we're told so much about

consistency when it comes to marketing, and absolutely I believe in consistency

when it comes to your marketing.

Of course I do.

It works.

But also, consistency doesn't have to be rigid.

I see you as somebody who posts consistently online,

but yours varies depending on, what you're inspired to share.

I'm definitely perceived by the people that I work with as

being really consistent online.

sometimes post once a week, I sometimes post five times a week.

Sometimes I'm really visible on stories, sometimes I'm not.

And so I think it's okay as well for us to, when we're setting those

boundaries, to understand that consistency can be about a rhythm

Yeah.

than a routine.

that's a freedom, we're not naturally very good at giving ourselves, but we

don't have to have, "Oh, I haven't posted three times this week, therefore I need to

come back with an announcement justifying why I didn't post last week." actually,

it's okay to just be like, I posted once this week, but it was a corker.

Got

Yeah

engagement.

It was sharing what I've been up to and how I've been, balancing

life." And people wanna know that shit, so they're gonna engage.

think it's permission for that sort of thing as well and maybe writing that

down would be a good way, I'm talking to myself here really, of like setting

boundaries, not just on time, but on the expectations that we have of

ourselves so that we don't feel like we're failing when actually it's fine

Yeah, I totally agree.

really, and I think for me that comes from the revenue safety.

I will not feel that panic about, like, how many times have I posted

this week, or how many emails I've sent out, or do I need to be more visible on

stories if I know my revenue's covered.

I think it's, for me, it's when I feel like, oh, this is gonna impact my

revenue, or I'm not gonna get enough clients, or I need to do something

to get more money because I have to have it by the end of this month.

That makes me make bad decisions, which is why I'm really focusing on trying to,

bring revenue in now knowing then that will take me off the hook then for August.

but I have, because you would obviously expect nothing less from

me, I have made a Google Doc with the exact seven steps that I'm gonna

follow to have my fun mum summer.

So I will put the link to the Google Doc in the show notes because I think,

I think if this is something that you wanna do, like you say, I think it's

worth thinking about now and actually trying to preempt it because it's not just

gonna happen, and I think I've definitely fallen into that trap, in previous years

of just, getting to August and being like, "Oh, okay, I'll just be chilled.

I'll just try my best., I'll just juggle it." And actually, sometimes I think

we can glorify the juggle a little bit.

yeah, it's like sometimes we all have to juggle, but actually, what if you weren't

the one that had to juggle and be stressed and, trying to be doing the best for

the kids and the best for the business and actually you didn't have to do that?

That would be amazing.

And actually, another thing that I was just thinking as you were talking

is that, I'm really good at being intentional with my business of okay,

I'm gonna spend some time doing this or I'm gonna spend some time doing that.

But actually when it comes to summer holidays, sometimes I'm just like looking

very basically at the time allocation.

So I'll always have a spreadsheet of where Will fears on what given day.

But like when I think about last summer, one of the things I did was

I took him and his cousins to play pickleball at our local leisure center

and it was an hour like six quid and we were all really shit at it.

And then we went to Home Bargains and I gave them a fiver and they had to

add it up as they were going around.

Yeah

really low cost, not a lot of time, but they like, "That was so fun." And

so I think like the lesson I'm trying to take from that is actually if I'm

intentional with the time, it's not necessarily spending the whole six weeks

together or a whole eight hours together.

Actually, if rather than me just thinking I'm working and looking after Will today,

I think, I'm gonna work for this amount of time, then we're going to do X, Y, Z

and that's gonna be really intentional.

I wanna try and, just like we were saying with AI, I wanna try and manage that

with the same intention on both sides.

Yeah

making both work for me.

I think that will feel really good

Yeah.

No, I totally agree.

there you go.

we're gonna sort out our lives with AI, we're gonna have incredible summers, and

we're going to make sure that we only go to events that we really wanna go to.

So I feel like we've solved quite a lot of problems there today

I do too.

And I think, we wanted to call this Should I Care?

Because there are so many things , that I'm caring about all the time.

So I'm caring about AI, I'm caring about whether I should be at things or not,

I'm caring about whether I'm spending enough quality time with my son, or

whether I'm actually enjoying my life.

I'm always so nervous that life is racing by and I'm like, "Did I spend it all

how I wanted to?" is it good enough?

And so I think whilst it is an eclectic collection of topics, I think it's

like a metaphor for the brains of

Yes

working in the online business space who are trying to do

all sorts of shit on the daily

I totally agree.

And I will also mention as well, just because we are talking about AI, that

there is a law, I think it's like the final piece of some legislation that is

coming into place in August, where you do need to now have an AI policy within

your business, with either within your terms and conditions or as a separate

policy about how you use AI with clients.

Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, and obviously I don't have the details

on this, but, Lucy Legal most definitely has, and I work with her.

I use all her policies, and she's brilliant.

So I will put the affiliate link, it is affiliate links, to her

AI policy and her AI toolkit.

I'll put them in the show notes, but obviously also check out Lucy Legal as

well, and she will have all of the info

Amazing.

Okay.

check that out

Good.

need one.

Obviously.

okay.

Amazing

so good.

. Okay.

I think we are done, so we will see you all next week.

Bye