Howard Hewett, a luminary in the realm of R&B, joins Joe Kelley on Musicians Reveal to elucidate his remarkable journey through the music industry. The conversation commences with an exploration of Hewitt's formative experiences in Akron, Ohio, where he was immersed in gospel music through his family's involvement in the Hewitt Singers. He recounts pivotal moments in his career, including his transition to Los Angeles and the formation of the iconic group Shalamar, which produced timeless hits like "Make That Move" and "Second Time Around." Throughout the interview, Hewitt reflects on the profound impact of music as a unifying force in society and shares his insights on the dynamics of group cohesion and the challenges that can arise in supergroups. As he discusses his solo endeavors and ongoing performances, it becomes evident that Hewitt's passion for music remains as vibrant as ever, continuing to inspire audiences worldwide.

The Musicians Reveal Podcast features a captivating exchange between Joe Kelley and the legendary Howard Hewett, wherein the latter reflects on his illustrious career spanning decades. From his early days in Akron, Ohio, where he was immersed in the gospel music scene thanks to his mother, a notable promoter, Hewett's journey is one of passion and perseverance. His formative years were marked by performances with the Hewett Singers, a family ensemble that laid the groundwork for his entry into the competitive world of R&B and pop music. Through vivid storytelling, Hewett brings to life the experiences that shaped his artistry, emphasizing the profound influence of his church upbringing on his musical identity.

As the dialogue progresses, the conversation shifts to pressing contemporary issues, including the alarming wildfires in California. Hewett candidly shares his experiences and concerns, discussing the community's resilience in the face of adversity and the role of artists in responding to such crises. His reflections on the challenges posed by natural disasters and their impact on creative expression provide a sobering backdrop to the otherwise celebratory nature of his musical accomplishments.

The episode further delves into Hewett's time with Shalamar, exploring the complexities of group dynamics and the evolution of his sound as a solo artist. His insights into the collaborative nature of songwriting and the importance of connecting with audiences resonate deeply, as he articulates the emotional power of music in people's lives. This episode not only celebrates the achievements of Howard Hewett but also offers a profound examination of the interplay between personal experiences, community, and the transformative power of music, leaving listeners with a deeper appreciation for the artistry and dedication that defines his career.

Takeaways:

• In this episode of Musicians Reveal, Howard Hewett discusses the significant impact of his mother, a prominent gospel promoter, on his early musical career.
• Howard reflects on the wildfires in California and shares his experiences of living in Santa Clarita amidst such natural disasters.
• The conversation delves into the importance of community within the music industry, emphasizing the collaborative spirit among artists like Hewett and his peers.
• Hewitt recounts memorable moments from his youth, including performing at church and the pivotal role it played in shaping his stage presence and vocal style.
• The episode highlights the challenges faced by musical groups, citing how individual agendas can lead to misunderstandings and ultimately cause breakups, even among successful bands.
• Howard Hewett expresses his ongoing commitment to music and his desire to connect with fans through live performances, demonstrating his passion for the art form.

What's up?

This is Howard Hewitt and you're watching Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelly.

Check it out.

God bless.

Welcome to Musicians Reveal.

I'm Joe Kelly.

I am extremely excited today because a legendary and icon, R B songwriter, producer, singer, gospel, funk and pop.

You may know him songs such as make that Move with Shalimar and also say Amen from his solo career.

Many, many credits to this man's illustrious career.

Finally can say Howard Hewitt is on Musicians Reveal.

How you doing, Howard?

Good.

How you doing, Joe?

Good.

Good being here.

Yeah.

Great to have you.

And, and you're going strong.

And, and first I gotta ask you, since you're out in California, your family and friends and yourself, how did you deal with the, the fires?

And you guys all okay?

Everybody, thank God, you know, everybody's cool.

And I live in Santa Clarita.

I know there was a lot of, A lot of the, The Santa Clara Clarita name was mentioned a lot during the fires, but it's basically here.

We basically got the winds, you know, but, but we deal with the Santa Ana winds like every year.

But this year it was different, you know, because, because of the fact that we were, they were, they were much, much stronger this year, which was crazy.

And also we were going into this season, excuse me, so dry, you know, I mean, we had, we, we hadn't had rain usually by this time.

We, by that time, rather we would have had, you know, several storms, you know, rainstorms and stuff.

But we didn't have anything this year.

So.

But, but fortunately, you know, we came out every.

You know, the fires weren't.

That last fire that popped up, you know, they called it the Hughes fire and we could see, you know, smoke and stuff all there.

But, but fortunately the wind was blowing in the, in the opposite direction away from the houses and stuff.

So.

Did you evacuate?

No, never had to evacuate.

Never had to evacuate.

So, you know.

But yeah, I know a lot of people who, who were affected by it and devast.

Some people, many people who were devastated by it.

There's a lot of prayers and everything that, that went out that still go out now to, especially in the Altadena, you know, area, you know, with that, with the, you know, those homes over there, man, they're, they're like historical, you know.

So, you know, it's.

It was unfortunate.

Yeah.

Well, thankfully you're okay and, you know, hopefully this, you know, something like that doesn't happen again, but you got to be prepared, I guess, right?

Yeah, no, it's like, it's always, you know, there's always something.

Yeah, you know, that, that just, you know, like I said, every year we deal with wildfires and we deal with winds, but right this, this particular time, it was, it was just, it was just like that whole thing on steroids, you know, so, you know, but you know, it was crazy because about on New Year's Eve, my lady and I, we, we got a pizza and drove over the, and drove over the canyon and, and down into Malibu and then found a place right there on, on the, on pch.

And listen, it was, by the time we got there, it was like, it was dark by the there.

So we're eating pizza, listening to the waves, talking, you know, New Year's Eve and stuff.

And she was talking because she's from England, so she was talking about how beautiful it was down there.

And, and I bet you it's beautiful to live, to live here, you know, live down here.

And then a week later it was all gone.

All gone.

It is crazy, man.

It's really crazy.

Did you ever want to make your home out there in the uk?

Oh, no, no, no, I couldn't live in the uk.

UK is great.

I got great friends there.

Great.

We've had some amazing, we have some amazing, amazing fans there that have been following the group forever, following Shalimar forever.

And I go there and work, but, you know, they know, they, and they, they know that I couldn't live there.

So there's not anything.

But Jeffrey lived out there, right?

Huh?

Jeffrey was out there.

Yeah, Jeffrey lived there.

I forget how many years he lived there.

But then he lived after he, he moved to Japan and lived there for a long time and then, and now he lives in Nigeria, in Africa.

Wow.

You know, so, like, you know, he's, he, Jeff hasn't lived in the States, I mean, I think since probably 80s, the, the mid to late 80s, you know.

So, yeah, I lived in Taiwan for three years and then my wife's from Montreal, so I got the international flavor going on.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's, I think that that's important, man.

I think people should, you know, should get outside of their box and outside of the United States, you know, because there's a whole, whole world out there that's, that's just, you know, just waiting to be for you to discover how, how you want to you, you know, maneuver and, and, and maneuver through the world, you know.

So I, I, I, you know, I started going overseas back in 77.

I, I was with the a show group and, you know, we did top 40 stuff and everything.

And we ended up in.

I ended up overseas for about all together, about a year.

About a year.

Little.

Little over a year and stuff.

But going from first place was Helsinki, Finland, and then Geneva, Switzerland, and, you know, London and Benidorm, Spain, you know, Saint Tropez, France, all over the place, you know, making 250.

Making like 250 a week, you know, And.

And I had.

And.

And no responsibilities, you know.

And.

Yeah, you know, I tell my kids now.

I said, I remember when I had no responsibilities.

You guys were nowhere around, right?

So, like, you know, so I had no wife, no kids, no nothing.

I was just.

I was about 22.

About 22 years old or so, and just.

Just having a good time, having fun.

Yeah.

And that's the perfect age to do it.

And, you know, and then before.

And before you get, you know, all the responsibilities of life, you know what I'm saying?

I.

I just, you know, like I said, even.

I didn't even have a girlfriend when I went over there.

The girl that I.

That I, you know, so it was my high school girlfriend.

We had broken up.

And so, like, I was like.

I was like, is she a fan now, huh?

Is she a fan or was she a fan?

You know, we're still good.

We're still good friends.

We.

She'll call every once in a while.

She lives in Birmingham, Alabama now.

So.

Okay, you know, she'll.

She'll call.

I'll, you know, I'll call her.

We'll.

We'll stay in touch, you know.

But, you know, that was.

That was high school stuff, man.

It was like, crazy, you know, so.

We got to go back for our listeners who don't know that.

That you hail from one of the.

The states here in the U.

S.

Which is just so much music history on it, you know, you.

You come from Akron, Ohio.

And let's talk about your sisters and your mom when you were a little kid, because we.

We might put up a picture when we air this of you when you were.

You were in the.

The Hewitt Singers.

And how did you get introduced to.

To the church and the Hewitt Singers and tell us about it?

Well, you know, I mean, came from the church, of course.

My mom was a.

A major gospel promoter in the Akron, Cleveland, Canton area.

And she had a broadcast as well for.

For.

For 40 years.

I mean, she was.

She was inducted into the.

The Ohio radio hall of fame and everything.

And, and my dad, you know, my dad was a mail carrier, but he was really involved in.

In.

In.

In everything that we were doing.

And so, you know, my mom would bring everybody in from.

From James Cleveland to Albertina Walker and the Caravans, Pilgrim Jubilees, Soulsters, Five Blind Boys, Alab, Everybody.

Every.

She used to bring everybody in.

And then she put together.

She found out that my sisters and I could hold a note, right?

So.

So she put together the Hewitt Singers.

And once the Hewitt Singers were.

Once we were in shape enough to.

To perform, of course nepotism was alive and well in our family, you know, so.

So every show that she would bring in, you know, of course we would open.

We had opened the show for.

Open the.

The program for her.

And I mean, she's.

She's literally the one that.

Literally, like, first time I went out on stage, it was like, man, I was like.

I was like 10, about 10 years old or so, and I'm like, mom, I don't know if I wanna.

She said, boy, you're getting out there.

And she literally kicked me out on stage.

And.

And once I got out there, though, man, it was like, oh, man, it's not too bad.

This.

You know.

So, you know, thank God, you know, I went from there.

But.

But we started.

We went and we.

We did.

We.

In the summertime, we would.

When we got out of school for summer, we would do the, you know, the gospel chitlin circuit up and down the.

The east coast and Midwest and you know, all.

All that area up there over there.

And.

And I did that till I was.

I did that till I was about.

From the time I was 10 till I was about 14.

14 or 15.

And then I went into the R B situation.

Yeah.

And for our viewers and listeners, we definitely want to push them over to YouTube at their leisure to watch you and Shauna put together a great production when you were honored in akron, Howard Hewitt Jr.

Day.

You have a sign, the street.

The street you live on.

You've revisited the home and you could see what your old band life, right.

See what.

You see some of the guys from life, your old.

Oh, yeah, a lot of them came.

Almost all of them came except the drummer, Kevin Talbot.

He.

I think he was the only one that wasn't there.

And Marvin Burke and Byron.

Byron Williams.

Byron Williams is Walter Williams's brother from the.

From the ojs.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So Walter.

So the first time I ever met Walter was.

I was 15, 15, 16 years old.

And Walter, he came from.

Because, you know, they're from.

They're from up in the Cleveland area, right?

Yeah, well, Canton originally, but then Cleveland area.

And so like, Walter came to.

To One of our rehearsals.

Life.

Because our band was called.

It was called Life Band.

L, Y, F, E.

Right.

And so Life.

Jennings was not the first one to ever spell life like that.

You had it first.

We were the first.

And.

And.

And so, like, you know, so Walter came to.

We.

We rehearsed in the basement of.

Of our organ players, mom and dad's house.

And that was the first time I met Walter.

You know, he came to.

Came to rehearsal.

We talk about that all the time.

When I see them now.

I saw them about.

About a month or so ago on.

On the Soul Train cruise.

We did Salimar.

Did the Soul Train cruise.

Oh, okay.

So.

So, like, you know, every.

Every time I see Walter, we talk about that.

It's like, oh, man, I met you, man.

So it was good seeing them.

And Eddie.

Eddie's.

Eddie's.

Eddie's a good, good cat.

He's going through some.

Some health stuff right now, but God bless him, you know.

Yeah, he's still doing the shows sitting down for the most part, right?

For the most part.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So crazy.

But it's cool that I mentioned that you're still going as strong as ever, you know?

You were on the Ultimate Disco Cruise, right?

Yeah, yeah, we did.

We did the Soul Train cruise, And then about 10 days later, we were on the Ultimate Disco Cruise.

And it was like that.

That whole thing was like, you know, to see no Soul Train, you know, and then we do the Ultimate Cruise is like the audiences, you know, they.

You know, they.

Everybody appreciated all the stuff.

The demographics were a little different.

Yeah.

You know, but.

But.

But like.

But we had a great time with a ball.

There was Jeffrey.

Jeffrey Daniel.

That was his first cruise, so he was nervous at first.

It was the first time he ever been on a boat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I saw some clips that.

I mean, the band smoking as ever.

You had the full band out there and.

Yeah, yeah, we had.

We have.

We had a good time.

It was a lot of fun.

I always have a good time.

You know, our friends.

I don't know if you ran on the Ultimate Disco.

The Boogie Wonder Band.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Boogie.

Cindy, the bass player, she's friends with us, so I know she was pumped.

Yeah, Cindy, she plays the bass.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

We talked.

We talked a lot on that cruise.

Yeah, she.

She's really cool.

Yeah, she's a big fan of all your music.

So.

Yeah, she's like.

She.

She's naming everything.

Yeah.

All the songs off everything.

And she was right.

The two.

We did two shows, and she was right there in the front both shows, so it was great.

Yeah, we first met her because my wife's from Montreal and she's from Montreal, so.

Yeah, we just connected and she came on the show last year, so.

Yeah, that's good.

Everybody's.

We're all the good people and good music lovers hanging together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just like doing those.

Doing those cruises is like.

It's like a reunion because you see a lot of people that, you know, you haven't seen in a long time, you know, because a lot of people are working.

A lot of people aren't working, thank God, you know, And.

And so, like, those cruises, you get on those cruises?

Because I do a lot of them.

I've done a lot of them.

As far as, like, Howard Hewitt is concerned, this is the first time I've done them with the group, which was really cool.

But.

But those cruises, they're like.

They're like, you know, like reunions, you know, because like I said, you see people that you haven't seen in a long time.

Yeah.

So when.

When there's down time, you do like two or three shows for a whole cruise.

Is that it?

That we do two shows?

Yeah.

Two shows.

I always wondered with the.

With the fans, I mean, you're, you know, unless you're hiding away in your room in between, does it get intrusive or is it just like, hey, you.

Know, you know, that's what those cruises.

Are about, you know, you know that going in.

Yeah.

So you have to.

You have to be.

You have to know what you're getting into.

You know, again, and the cruises and what they're about is basically, you know, that people, you know, they buy tickets to go on those cruises, and so they can be, you know, and intimate with some of their favorite artists.

You know what I'm saying?

So as an artist, I mean, that's.

That's what you, you know, going in that.

That's what the whole deal is, is like it's going to be.

It's going to be, you know, there's going to be pictures, there's going to be, you know, all kind of stuff.

And, and, and you're on that boat for the most part.

If you.

If you stay on the whole time you're on that.

You're on that boat for seven days with.

With people.

And so, you know, it's like, you know, I can't stay in my room the whole seven days, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, so, you know, you.

You get out there.

And, and, and that's what the whole.

I mean, to, to be with your fans and, and.

And really experience the whole thing with your fans and every.

It's.

It's an amazing.

Really an amazing experience.

I, you know, anybody that.

I'm not a big Cruise fan, you know what I'm saying?

But as, As a music, like I did the.

I did the Dave Kaz Cruise, right?

And man, there was like the.

Just.

There was music on every level of that boat, you know what I'm saying?

There was.

There was a band that was playing in this lounge and the band that was playing in that, you know, area of the, of the ship and band that was playing on the main stage.

And you know, and it's.

It is an experience that, That a lot of people, I believe would enjoy.

And as an artist, I enjoy because that's one of the main things about an artist being an art artist is like when you, when you are honored to the point where you become a part of the soundtrack of somebody's life, you know, because so many people chronologize their lives through music, you know.

Right.

I mean, it's, it's so many times that, you know, I hear, oh, man, I.

That was when this song was out, I was going through this.

When that song was out, I was going through that.

You know, I mean, my, My.

My.

My ex wife, you know, she.

She's a big music.

Music person.

And some of the things.

Even after we had gotten married, you know, we, We.

We're sitting there and I'm playing something, one of my songs, and she says, oh, man, I remember I was going through this when this song when, When Show Me came out, I was going through that.

And when, you know, second time around, back in the day.

So, you know, when you become, when you have the honor as an artist to become to.

To become a part of something as intricate and as.

As, you know, as.

As important as the soundtrack.

Yeah, but.

But you know, when you become.

When you, like I said, as an artist, when you, when you have the honor of.

Come becoming this.

Of becoming a part of the soundtrack of somebody's life, you can't.

You know, there's nothing like that.

There's.

There's.

This is so.

So intimate and, and, and such a.

Such an honor, you know, that is, you know, is you.

You can't really just, you know, there's nothing like that.

It's very cool.

So I wanted to get back to that early twenties when you made the decision.

You're in a hub of Music Ohio could have gone to New York, you could have stayed in, in Ohio and made your whole career there, but you ventured out to la.

Was there a safety net when you went out there?

What, what was it like?

What was in your mind and what when you first got out there?

Well, it's, it's crazy because when I was 8 years old, you know, we, my dad piled all that.

I have four, four sisters, four older sisters.

They're all.

My sisters are older than me then.

I have a younger brother.

My brother is like three years younger than me.

When I was eight years old and we were all kids, my dad packed all of us into the station wagon that he had.

My mom and, and my, and his sister, my Aunt Ida.

We all, he packed all of us in the car, we took a cross country trip from Akron, Ohio, all the way over to Los Angeles, all the way out here to la.

Right, okay.

And visited my mom's brother, my Uncle Joe and his two kids, my cousin Michael, my cousin Joseph and, and, and, and his wife, my Aunt Mary.

And from that point on, Joe, seriously, I wanted to live in California.

From that point on, I was like, I was, I said, every time I died, I'm living in California.

I'm gonna live in California.

Growing up, I'm gonna live in California.

And, and so like I never got back here, never got back out here until like When I was 20 years old, my cousin Hussein, who, who sings also, he came out, he was.

Because he had lived out here from the time he was like five years old till he was 15.

Then he and Joseph, my, my cousin Joseph went back down, back to Ohio.

And, and then, then we can, we reconnected when they came.

He was about 16, I was about 15 when he got back out, out to, to Akron.

And so then we, we, you know, we got to be, you know, hang out, we hung out and, and the whole thing.

And when I was about 20 years old, about 19 years old or so, he said, man, I'm going back to, I'm going back to California.

He said, and now I'm gonna call you in a year.

You know, I'm call you in a year and then you come out, right?

And so I said, I said, okay, cool, cool.

I'm.

I'm singing with my band, I'm singing with Life Band back in Ohio, up and down the East Coast, Midwest.

And then about almost a year to the date that he said he was gonna call me, he calls me and he says, man, you gotta come out and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So Long story short, we can get into a whole bunch of.

A whole story about that.

That was, that was a whole situation getting out there, but out here rather.

But I got out here and after I had paid for my, my one way ticket, you know, I had like $34 in my pocket, right?

And, and Michael picked me up at the airport and we came out of the airport, if anybody's familiar with the, with, you know, la, when you come out of the airport, you can hit La Cieniga and La Cieniga take you all the lax, which is Englewood, all the way up to Hollywood to Sunset Boulevard.

So we, we drove all the way out of the, the ups, up La Senica to Sunset Boulevard and made that left on Sunset and went up into, into the hills.

And it was getting to be a little dusk, you know, at that time.

And the, the lights of, of the, of the Valley, you can overlook the lights of the Valley.

And we're standing there like, you know, overlooking the valley and, and I'm fresh off the plane and talking about, hey, man, we're gonna, we're gonna conquer this city.

You know, I don't know, I don't know how we were gonna do it when I had $34 in my pocket.

But hey, I was, I had $34 and I was 20 years old.

So yeah, like with that, you can, you can conquer the world with that, right?

So, so came back, came out of, came back out of the hills, down, down Sunset, made that right back onto La Cienega, all the way down, all the way through la, back to past the, the airport to the hood.

I mean, the hood.

Right, right, right.

And, and so like, you know, he, I got, we got to the door and, and because he said, because what he told me, he said, man, you got to come out, you got to come out, you know, he said, I met this girl, she's got a two bedroom apartment and her roommate will love you, right?

So like, so we got to the apartment and his girl comes to the door.

It comes to meet and meets us at the door.

She's, you know, cutie pie, caramel colored ice, you know.

And then the roommate comes out.

He built her up a little false advertising, man.

My cousin couldn't even look me in the eye.

He couldn't even look at me.

He could, you know, I looked at him.

I'm like, are you serious?

Really?

Really?

You know, and, and that was the beginning of my LA experience.

But, but, you know, yeah, I got out here and started kicking around, you know, la and, and and connecting with these people, connecting with those people, then ended up, you know, like I said, over one at.

Down in Mavericks flat on in the Crenshaw district.

Everybody.

I mean, Mavericks flat.

You could.

You could be down in Mavericks on.

On when.

On when the club was open.

And you can.

On the weekend, you'd be down there looking audience and you'll see.

You can see Lionel Richie sitting out there or Shaka Khan or Richard Pryor, you know, the members of Earth, Wind and Fire would be sitting, you know, hang out.

Everybody, Everybody hung out at Mavericks.

It was a cat named John Daniels and his brother Alonzo Daniels that owned it.

And they, they.

What was funny about Mavericks is that John never had a.

A liquor license, right?

So they, so they never sold liquor in there.

You know, they never sold drinks.

They didn't have a bar or anything, but they used to.

They used to have these, make these fruit smoothie drinks, right?

Like milkshakes, Fruit smoothie milkshakes and stuff.

And, and that's what, that's what they sold.

But everybody used to go there.

Everybody.

Some most beautiful women that I've ever seen would come down there.

You so like.

But there during the week, during the weekend, it was Mavericks flat the club, but during the week it was Maverick International, which was up upstairs.

They had.

They had rehearsal rooms and offices and they had a.

And they had.

The.

Maverick International was a, A booking agency as well.

So John would put together these, you know, these.

And John, John would do a whole.

He did a lot of the black exploitation movies like Black Shampoo and stuff like that.

And, you know, so.

But then he, he started putting together these show groups, you know, top 40 show groups.

And then he made connections, all these connections overseas.

So once you put a group together and Mavericks then, And you were in shape enough to tour, then you went, you went overseas.

Like our, like I said, our.

Our first.

The group that I put together was called Beverly Hills and it was myself and this cat, Robert DeBlanc, and, and Roberta, Roberta Patterson, Gwen Briscoe and Deanna.

Deanna.

Forget Deanna's last name, but it was three girls and, and myself and, and Robert.

And once we were in shaping up the tour, our first gig was in Helsinki, Finland.

And then we went from there, you know, went, went from that point.

And.

Yeah, so that, that was the beginning, you know, in this, in the short, in the short version.

Hey, you jumped in with $34 and.

You know, hey, I had Mad Joe, I had a ball.

I had so much fun.

It was like.

And it was during that time that, that, you know, thank God I was able to establish certain, you know, certain aspects of my life that.

That followed me all the way through my life.

You know, certain things in my life, certain.

Certain ways that I look at life, certain the way.

Certain ways I look at my music, certain ways that I look at.

At what I do, touring and.

And recording and all that kind of stuff.

And I was able to put a lot of things in.

In.

In a perspective that that was.

That was strong enough to following.

Follow me, like I said, throughout my whole life.

Life.

Yeah.

And you're.

You're back in the States, you're still young.

And that connection with Jody Watley and Jeffrey Daniels and.

And just.

We all have that amazing group of people.

What.

Yeah.

What was your first introduction to them in person?

I know you're a big fan of Soul Train, but.

Yeah, well, you know, like, Soul Train, all the.

All that stuff is connected.

Soul Train.

Soul Train had they.

They had a.

The.

Of the record company called Soul Train Records, and Don Cornelius and Dick Griffey put that together.

Then Don kind of backed out of.

He.

He.

You know, I guess the.

The music money was a little bit too slow for Don.

He liked that.

He liked that TV money.

TV money is a little bit faster.

So he kind of.

He kind of, you know.

You know, Dick Griffey bought him out and then he.

They changed it to Solar Records.

Now I met Jeffrey and Jody at Maverick's flat.

Okay.

Before Shalimar even existed, you know, and that was the whole thing.

I used to date this girl that.

That eventually was, you know, the mother of my two older daughters and my first wife, and she worked for Don Cornez at the Soul Train Dance studio.

And so like, you know, and she used to dance on Soul Train.

So I would go and hang out.

So I never danced on Soul Train until I performed on Social.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

But like.

So all the.

All of the, you know, like I said, you would see all kind of people sitting out there as far as Mavericks is concerned, because when we had a show, when Beverly Hills, the group that I was with, when we had a show that we wanted to try out on a live audience, we would play Mavericks.

We would play down in Mavericks Flat.

And so all these people were there and all the Soul Train people used to go to go down there as well every weekend because it was such a homey type of place.

They could dance on top of tables.

They could.

You know, nobody was getting drunk and out of their mind drunk or anything because they didn't sell any liquor, right?

So, so like, you know, it was a great place to hang out.

They were open Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you know, till like four in the morning.

So I met Jeffrey and Jody down there down at Mavericks.

But I used to watch them, you know, when I was still back in Ohio and, and just like everybody else in the country at 12 noon on Saturday, you were in front of your TV watching Soul Train, you know.

And so, you know, I would see Jeffrey and John.

I didn't know who they were, of course, but I see them dancing on Soul Train.

They got great routines and we were.

Would my band and I would watch it to see who's, you know, who's, who's playing on there, who's performing and, and watch the girls, of course, you know, and, and so like, you know, so when I got to, to out here to LA and then I started hanging at Mavericks, that's when I first met Jeffrey and Jody because they used to watch the show when I was with the, the Beverly Hills group.

They used to watch the show that we would do there.

And a lot of people would, A lot of people performed in Mavericks as well.

Live performance from the Whispers, Lakeside Express.

Everybody, everybody used to perform there.

So like that's when I first met Jeffrey and Jody though.

And then I, when I, when I, I went overseas with, with the show group and I was over there for about nine months and then came back home for a month and then I went back over there with them about another four or five months.

But during the time, during that month I was at Mavericks and, and Jeffrey approached me then they had, they had, when I was overseas for that nine months, that's when Shalimar formed, you know, and then they had this, their first single was this, this single called Uptown Festival, right?

Yep.

And yeah, and there was this cat named Gary Mumford that was the lead singer.

It was a medley of, of, of Motown hits done in disco type of format.

Right.

And so your favorite music.

I'm just kidding with you.

I said your favorite music.

Disco.

I know, I'm just messing with you.

No, no disrespectful.

I would say that I was not a fan of disco.

Not, not a big fan of disco at all.

I cut you off.

Sorry.

No, no, no, no.

So, but so like, you know, but what Gary, Gary Mumford was the first lead singer.

Then he went back to the church and then they were getting ready to go back into the studio, I guess they were gonna do.

That's when they were gonna do Take that To the bank, right?

And, and they approached me, they approached me then about joining.

Jeffrey approached me then about joining the group.

But I was already obligated to go back overseas with the show group, you know, so it was like, you know, your word, you find out real quick in this business that your word is worth, worth more than any piece of paper, anything that you can sign.

So, you know, so like, I went back overseas, they did take that to the bank with this cat named Gerald.

Gerald, Gerald Brown.

Yeah.

And, and then, you know, put it out.

It was a, it was a, it was a medium, medium hit me, you know, a mild hit.

And then when I came back from overseas that second time, we, the group Beverly Hills, we broke up before we, before we even left London, before we left England, that second tour.

And so like, you know, I came back, kicked around LA and started working with this guy over at Motown, this cat, Jeffrey Bowen.

And Jeffrey Bowen was producing an album at the time on this cat, Eddie Hazel, guitar player for Parliament Funkadelic.

Legendary.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Maggot brain, all that stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

And so he was doing a solo album on, on Eddie Hazel.

And I, I connected with him through this girl named Tammy Gibson and went in and did, did a background, a couple some backgrounds for him on the background session.

And when we got done with the session, he came out, he said, man, I love your voice.

You know, this is going to be a self contained situation because Eddie can't sing, you know.

And he says, you know, it's going to be vocally I wanted you.

He said he wanted me, Tammy and this other girl that was singing with us.

And he said, I can get you, I can.

He said, I can, we can work on, work on those contracts that's going to be under Motown.

It's going to be on Motown label.

He said, but in the meantime, I can get you into the union, you know, and you start, you start doing, you know, doing these sessions, making some money, blah, blah, blah, and we'll put the, put everything together.

Cool, right?

So we started working, we started working on the, that from that point on we started working on the, the Eddie Hazel album.

And, and then, you know, after about a month, about, after about a couple months, you know, started getting kind of shaky.

What we used to call back in the day, we used to call it the Motown run around, right?

So, so like the money, you know, checks weren't reflecting, you know, the time spent in the studio, you know.

And, and so like I, I remember it was on a Friday and I dropped my lady off at work, right?

And I said, I, I said, you know, I'm going to a meeting at the Motown building.

That's when they were on Sunset in Argyle.

And I said, I'm going to a meeting at the Motown building, you know, and I'll.

After I get done, you know, I'll come back, pick you up, you know, when you get done from work, I'll pick your blood, the whole thing, right?

So I go to the meeting and I'm up on the 15th floor.

Motown had 17, 16 and 15 in this high rise office building on Sunset on, on Sunset Boulevard.

So I might, I'm up on the 15th floor, man, like, like, you know, getting everything off my chest.

And, you know, y'all give me the Motown run around and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then the phone rings, right?

And this cat, Angelo Bond, who's Jeffrey Bowen's co producer, he answers the phone and he looks at me and he says, it's for you, right?

And I said, well, hey, man, if it's my lady, you know, tell her I'll call her back because I'm.

I'm getting this stuff off my chest.

I'm in the middle of the meeting, right?

And so, like, he says, well, it's not a lady, you know, and this was before cell phones and all that stuff, you know, this is back in, in 70s 7.

Yeah, late 70s, 79, 78, I think it was.

And so you could get.

He said, he said, it's not a guy.

He said, it's a lady.

And it sounds like it's long distance.

That's when we get on the long distance phone call.

You can hear the crackling and all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So he hands me the phone, right?

And I get on the phone and it's Jeffrey Daniel from Shalom.

Okay, right.

And they were in New York.

They were on.

They were in the middle of a promotional tour, were promoting Take that to the bank, right?

And they were in New York and they got into a thing with Gerald Brown.

And Gerald Brown jumps on a plane and says, well, when y'all can see it my way, give me a call, right?

And he jumps on a plane and flying and leaves them out in.

On the road on the promotional tour with no lead singer, nothing, right?

And so, like, he knew Jeffrey Daniel knew that, that my lady worked for Don.

So he called.

So he called her to find out where I was, right?

And she told him, I'm at the mo.

He's at the Motown building having a meeting with these people at Motown, blah, blah, Blah, blah.

And yeah, I know how he got to.

How he got to the Motown building, but to this day, Jeffrey Daniel won't tell me how he got exactly into that exact office where I was, Right?

Yeah.

And so like, you know, he says, man, I know I approached you once before about joining the group.

He said, but we got.

He ran down the whole thing as far as, like, got into a thing and left us out here with no lead singer.

But we want to offer you an equal position in the group as lead singer, you know.

And, and he said, you're at the Motown building, right?

I said, yeah.

He said, what?

I said, what if.

He said, what floor are you on?

I said, I'm up on the 15th floor.

Said, well, Solar Records, the record company that they were with, he says, solar Records and Dick Griffey are in that same building.

Their offices are in that same building down on the ninth floor, right?

And he said, we talked to Dick and Dick is just waiting for you to get in touch with them, see if you're.

This is something you're interested in.

So, man, I got off the phone and, and I told Jeffrey Bowen, you know, and, and, and his co producer, Angela, I told him what to do.

I said, this is.

That was Jeffrey Daniel from Shalimar and the.

They got that tune out, take that to the bank there with Solar Records and blah, blah, blah.

And so Angelo says, which Angelo says a whole different story now.

Now where I saw him one time when I played in, in Detroit because he moved back to Detroit, okay?

And, and he has a whole nother story.

But the way that this went down was Angelo said, man, Shalimar is nothing but a fly by night disco group.

You know, they'll never, they'll never amount to, they'll never amount to anything.

And Solar will never be a Motown, right?

And, and so like, I just kind of sat back and then Jeffrey Bowen starts talking and I, I just kind of sat back and listened, right?

And when they got done, I told him, I said, well, I said, I'm parked on the street.

My car is parked on the street, so I need to go put some money in the meter so I don't get a ticket.

And so I left the office, went right down to the ninth floor, right?

Got right in, talked to Dick.

He reiterated what Jeffrey had proposed.

And, and then, and then, you know, I told him, I said, look, you know, let me give these people upstairs a chance to, you know, rectify themselves, because again, your word, we have been working for like about two months.

So I didn't want to.

I didn't want to seem flaky, you know, to anybody.

And so, like, you know, I said, let me give them a chance to see if they're out, but I'll call you in the morning.

And so, like, I caught.

I told Jeffrey Bowen up that the people in Motown, that I'd be home all night.

If you want to rectify it, I'll be home all night.

Nobody calls, right?

So the next morning, which was Saturday morning, I called Dick Griffey and went over to his house and watched the videotape of a Shalimar show with Gerald Brown in it and watched the videotape.

And I remember I was sitting in this rocking chair.

And when the videotape goes off, Dick says, well, sing something.

You know, Jeffrey and Jody say, you're a great singer.

Sing something.

That's Jeff.

That's.

That's.

That's a Dick.

That's the Dick Griffey Gruff.

Gruff talk.

Say something for me, you know.

So like I said, sing something.

Just acapella, like, you know.

He says, yeah.

So I said to myself, I said, well, Lord, you know me and you, right?

So I broke into Field of Fire by Peeble Bryson.

You know, something that you told me laid in my head, you know, broke into that.

Got through the first verse, half the hook.

Dick says, okay, okay, I'll be right back.

He goes upstairs, he comes back down, he hands me about.

About some cash.

He said, leave some cash with your old lady.

Pay some bills.

And he goes in the other pocket, he said, because he.

And he brings out an airline ticket.

That was back before 9 11.

That was back when I could ride on your ticket.

You could ride on my ticket.

There wasn't.

You remember those days that I got.

My brother a fake driver's license one year?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So.

So he goes in the pocket, he brings out the airline ticket.

He says.

He said, here's.

He brings out the cash and leave some money.

Leave some cash with your leg.

Pay some bills.

And he gave me it.

Then he brought out the airline ticket, he said, because you got to catch the red eye out tonight and meet the group in New Jersey, which tomorrow morning, which was Sunday morning, said you got to rehearse the lip sync and the choreography to take that to the bank, he said, because Monday you have a TV show to do.

And that's exactly how it went down, man.

Friday, I got the offer Saturday, I guess I did a little lightweight audition.

Saturday night.

I was on the red eye.

Sunday, we rehearsed in either Jeffrey or Jody's hotel room, I can't remember.

And then Monday we were doing this little, you know, wannabe Soul Train dance show in Patterson, New Jersey.

And then, and then we, we kept, we went from there.

We.

We continued on with the, with the, with the, the tour and the promotional tour.

And then when we came out, came off the road for that, that's when we started on, on Big Fun album.

Yeah.

Did you record some of Big Fun out in Jersey?

No.

Oh, okay.

We recorded everything.

Big Fun.

Everything on that album was recorded here in la, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was the start of a three, four year run.

Yeah.

You know, I gotta say with Minneapolis, the Motown sound, Funkadelic Ohio, the LA Solar sound.

And everybody out there definitely needs to be right up there with, with, with that.

So you'd be you to be.

Yeah.

So many great songs.

I mean there, there were times, man, when, when you could look on the, on the Billboard charts and, and it wasn't unusual to have about three or four Solar singles up in, in the top, in the top 10 of the, of the R B, the black charts as well as the, the pop charts, you know.

So yeah, it was.

It Leon Silvers and, and you know, the, the, the, the.

The machine that Dick had going over there at Solar was, was, was amazing.

We made, we made some amazing strides in the music business.

Every time Jeffrey and I finish a tour, we always, we sit and look at each other.

Said, man, we made musical history together, you know, so it's, it's.

You can't say that a lot of times, you know, through, in a lot of situations.

Yeah.

I've always been a liner notes, studio credit kind of person.

And looking at that, I'm looking at, you know, the groups from, from Solar, especially Shalimar.

You know, everybody's writing songs for each other.

What was the writing process?

Someone like, for instance, Dynasty.

The guys from Dynasty write a song and then not go to them.

It goes to you or it goes to the Whispers or something.

How did that work?

We, you know, we had one of those Motownish type of procedures where everybody gets together and, and presents their thing.

And our thing is like, if, if that was it, that was the big veto.

No, that's not gonna fly.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And so it was, I think the first song that I, that I had enough nerve anyway to present to, in that, in that whole process was when Dana Myers had had.

He was, he was writing the lyrics and the melody for, for the lover in you.

Right?

Yeah.

And so like you know, he asked me, you know, he was stuck on, on the, on the, the bridge part.

So much love between us, that whole thing.

He couldn't.

He.

He.

He hadn't written anything for that, for that part.

So he asked me if I would.

If I would be, you know, interested in writing with him on that project.

And I say, of course.

Of course.

So I wrote the, the breakdown.

The.

The bridge breakdown part in there.

And when I, I remember when I was presented to the, to the, to the committee, the, the veto committee and the whole thing, I'm like sitting there, you know, that's first thing.

And I out.

I, I had ever.

I had ever presented.

And man, when they, when everybody went crazy, you know, between us, all that stuff, man, they went crazy.

I was like, okay, cool.

This is good.

That's good.

You know, so that must be reaffirming and great day for you.

It was, it was, you know, especially it being my first song that I, that I really, you know, participated on in that setting.

It was really reaffirming, really a.

A good feeling.

We had the Callaway Brothers on a few months ago, and Reggie Calloway was telling a story that wet my Whistle almost became a whisper song song.

Yeah, he said that he, he taught.

He gave it to Dick Griffey and an ARR guy said, you're giving us your B side stuff.

What are you doing that for?

So they made it into their own hit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that.

Yeah, but you would always write, you know, everybody wrote Will Shelby, you know, from Dynasty, you know, God rest his soul.

He.

He wrote, you know, he wrote.

Second time around, you know, Kevin Spencer would write on different stuff.

You know, it was a whole, A whole writing machine that.

That writing and production machine that, that Leon had going over there.

So you did the, The, The Solar tour with, with Dynasty and.

Yeah, Galaxy Star in the tour.

I think I saw a concert, you guys.

I mean, you've done so many shows, but I think I saw you in Connecticut.

New Haven, Connecticut.

Yeah, we would play Connecticut all the time.

Every, Every tour would go through Connecticut and East Coast.

Midwest.

Yeah, we.

Those were some fun tours, man.

Yeah, I heard you had a bus.

That was a.

A bus.

I think Nigel Beard and Linda were.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, we had a.

But we had a, a makeshift bus, you know, because Dick.

Dick bought all these, like, three or four of these old buses and had them.

Had them renovated inside.

You know what I'm saying?

Man, they were like yellow school buses.

No, they weren't.

Fortunately, they weren't.

The yellow school buses.

But.

But like, you know, I mean, I remember one night I went to bed.

I went to bed in my bunk and.

And middle of the night I heard all this commotion and people running past my bunk and stuff and woke up and the bus was on fire.

Everybody standing outside.

We were down south somewhere.

Everybody outside watching this bus smoke all up and stuff.

Man, it was crazy.

And then after that, I think it was after that we.

He finally.

He finally broke down and got.

And started, you know, getting some good buses.

Yeah.

And Shalimar.

Such so many hits hit after hit.

And.

Let me.

I mean, it's well documented that the band eventually had problems and.

And broke up.

I.

I don't a question specifically about groups in general, about what causes superstar groups to.

To break up and what prevents them sometimes from reuniting like you did with Jeffrey.

You know, I think I.

I think the thing is, Joe, is that, you know, people are.

People are.

Are grown, you know, with.

With individual agendas, you know, individual lives.

And you know, I think that's one of the main things that happens as far as groups are concerned.

You know, we.

We never had.

We never had any problems as far as like, you know, you know, somebody.

1.

Me wanting to go solo or whatever.

I mean, solo was always the.

The.

The ultimate goal.

But.

But the band, the group was.

Was, you know, took precedence over.

Over.

Over everything, especially at that time because we were trying to.

We were trying to build something, you know, and so like, you know, but.

But when we got together, we were like kids, you know, when we got together.

And then, yeah, and then we grow up.

We, you know, we grow up.

We have.

I have my family, Jeff has his family, Jody does doing her thing.

And so we, you know, we kind of just threw a lot of misunderstandings because we didn't break up because we couldn't sell any more records.

You broke up at the peak.

We broke up at the peak of our whole thing.

I mean, Dead Giveaway was getting ready to be monstrous, you know what I'm saying?

The look album was that had.

Was had about four or five singles.

Was four or five singles deep in that thing, you know, so we broke up, I think, because we did really didn't have the understanding of what we had accomplished, you know, because like I said, we were still kids.

We were kids and, and like, you know, and then, you know, every.

People have their.

Their own agendas and, you know, the.

The type of situation that came in, you know, we needed somebody that was going to unite us, you know, and.

And make us aware of what we had accomplished, you know, with.

With number one and number two, top five and top five records in, in the.

In the top bill, in the top black charts and.

As well as pop charts and all that.

You know, groups don't just accomplish that.

That's.

That's a major, major accomplishment.

And so we needed somebody that was going to come in and, and say, look, y'all, you know, look at what you've done.

This is the whole situation.

I tried to do as much.

You know, I tried to do some stuff.

I tried to say, you know, look, we don't even.

We.

We don't even have to.

I don't even have to.

If we're not getting along, you know, I only have to see you until it's time to hit stage.

You know what I mean?

So, you know, it's not.

It's not great to do it like that, but if that's the way that you do it, because these, you know, a lot of groups, A lot of groups, they.

They can't stand each other.

They, you know, they don't get along, but they know that, you know, this is business, you know, and that's what, that's what we.

I tried to convey at the time, but, you know, but, you know, Jeffrey was.

Jeffrey was doing a lot of stuff over in England and stuff.

So, so he was, he was, he was getting a lot of pull from over there to come over there and.

And.

And do some things.

So, you know, it's.

It's basically.

It was basically if I, If I was a.

If I was to look at it and say, hey, you know, look at it.

As far as a group wise concerned, I think it was not a great idea to break up at that time, but then you can't, you know, you got to do what you got to do.

Yeah.

And we write history.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're.

We're friends with Chris France and Tina Weymouth of the Talking Heads, and, oh, yeah, they got together for the Rock and Roll hall of Fame with David Byrne, but everybody else would want to get back together, but David Byrne is set.

Like, I'm gonna do my thing.

I'm not gonna go back.

So I guess, yeah, and those kind of things.

I, I think that.

I think that it is, you know, it's like the Eagles, you know, when the Eagles broke up, they asked Don Henley, will you guys ever get back together?

He says, yeah, when Hell Freezes Over.

And, and the first, the first tour, the reunion tour they did was called Hell Freezes Overdraw.

That's right.

And now they're playing the Sphere out in Las Vegas.

Huh?

They what?

They played the Sphere out in Las Vegas.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I gotta get there.

The people, some people invited me to a couple shows there at the, at the Sphere.

It's supposed to be pretty good.

Yeah.

My wife and I, my dad lives in Vegas, so we were out there two weeks ago for six days travel, I don't know, three out, three and a half hour layover in Atlanta.

I live up in Saratoga Springs, New York, so.

Oh, okay.

So, yeah, you take it.

Everybody.

I mean, you, you've.

You've been on so many flights, I can't match you.

I'll go, you know, to Vegas.

I'll drive there, because I can get there in three and a half hours from here, four hours.

But my.

My son and I, we bought a house in Vegas.

He lives out of it and his little family, so.

So, you know, it's like we.

I have a.

I go there.

I got, you know, place.

You got a place.

So it's good.

Yeah.

They're not taking all your money at the.

Buying things on the street.

And I don't gamble.

I'm, I'm, I'm.

I am like the.

I am not the gambler.

You just play the Westgate, do your business and that, that's it.

Take the money that goes, Go there.

And I like to say I took $250 one time and sat at the blackjack table, man, and within about 20 minutes, all my money was gone.

And I said, there's nothing, nothing fun about this.

Now this is not fun.

You know, I could, I could have bought a.

I could have bought a shirt that I didn't even like and hang it up in my closet and these.

At least I say I got a shirt that cost me 250 bucks.

Yeah.

Did you ever play solo or with Shalimar, the current configuration, at the casinos in Connecticut?

Yeah, the Fox.

Fox, Yeah, I played there.

Okay.

Yeah, I played there a few times in the.

Foxwood over there.

Never played there with Shalomar, though.

Okay.

Yeah, we're used to those.

We love the casinos over there because we're.

I'm from Connecticut originally, so.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Jeffrey.

Jeffrey Osborne plays that, plays at the.

Plays that casino a lot over there.

Yeah.

And his wife just passed away.

I mean.

Yeah.

That's tough.

I saw you guys together, you and Jeffrey.

Yeah, man.

It was that Sherry was.

She does.

She was my fellow Libra.

Her birthday was the day before Mine, you know.

Okay.

And every year we, we would call each other, you know, fellow Libra, you know, and Sherry was, she was a good, good, she was a good, good person.

And I mean for 50 years, you know, like together for married 44 years and together six years before that.

And so I, I remember I came because I, I, I bought a little place, well, a little place in Panama, right?

And, and so I was there, you know, I was there when she passed.

I was over in Panama, you know, checking some stuff out because I wouldn't want to lease this place out.

And I found out, I heard, that's when I heard the news.

And so when I got, I, I, you know, Panama is like about a direct flight, about six and a half hour flight back home, okay?

But I was playing, I was playing Orlando and so I told them just take, you know, my return ticket from Orlando and make it for the return about, about, about five or six days later.

Then I'm gonna get a round trip ticket to, to, to Panama, go from Orlando to Panama, back to Orlando and then catch up, link up on that, on that return ticket, you know, coming back on, from, coming back to la.

I didn't take in consideration that the flight from or from Panama to Orlando was about four hours and then there's almost a four hour layover, almost three or four hour layover in Orlando.

And then from Orlando is six hours, you know, almost six hours to LA, right?

So for a six and a half hour flight, I'm flying like 11 hours, right?

And I'm traveling by 11 hours.

But when I got home, I got home on a Friday, on a Friday, Friday night.

And man, I listened to love ballad and, and you know, the LTD song and I said, man, and, and Saturday, the Saturday night was the first, was Jeffrey's first show back.

Not only from, not only from Sherry's death, who had just passed about maybe four or five days before, but he had, he had a, an operation, hip replacement operation.

Oh, okay.

So Vegas was his first show back from, from, from everything, you know.

And I said, man, I said this, this, I gotta be there for my partner, you know.

So I just, last thing I wanted to do was jump on another plane after flying for 11 hours.

So I just got, so I just got in the car, drove, drove, drove that three and a half hours and stuff and just, you know, just, he called me out on stage, which was fun because when we went out for the, because it was me, Jeffrey, Freddie Jackson and People Bryson.

We did this, we did this Men of Soul tour, okay?

So at the end of.

At the end of.

At the end of every show, Jeffrey would do the Woo Woo song, call me and Peeble and Freddie out, and we'd all do the Woo Woo song together.

So he called me out that night that I went there and sat that Saturday night.

But it wasn't even about that.

It was just about being there.

Just.

Just him see me, you know, and I'm there.

And then we hung out.

We hung out afterwards.

Yeah, that's true.

Friends.

I mean, to do something like that.

He's a.

He's a.

He's a good friend.

A really, really good friend.

Friend.

Now, I wanted to move on to your solo career as far as.

Because I'm seeing on the studio credits, throughout your whole solo career, you're on their records, they're on your records.

It seems like you got a.

You mentioned friends, tight Community.

Stanley Clark, George Duke and Paul Jackson Jr.

He's been on our show as well.

Is that true, you guys?

They call you up and say, I need you for something.

Something.

Yeah, I mean, we would go with the Georges and just.

Just do background sessions, you know, like.

Like George, the first we did about.

We did a couple songs on the.

On the first solo album.

What was it?

I Got to Go.

And a couple other things.

A couple other songs, if I remember right.

But, you know, we just go over there and.

And when he.

When he built his.

Because the whole bottom half of the whole bottom floor of George's house in.

In the house in.

In the Hills in Hollywood Hills was his studio.

I remember seeing.

He was showing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, the whole floor.

Then he.

Then, you know, then he built the wine cellar in there.

Oh, okay.

And why'd he do that?

I don't know.

Because we were over there.

We were get lit, man.

We get lit and.

And go in there and start recording and.

Does that help or hurt?

Yeah, but that's how it was.

I mean, pj.

P.

I called PJ to come in and do something, you know, Paul Jackson to do something on my record.

I.

I go in and do something on his.

Do something on.

You know, me and Stanley wrote I'm For Real, you know, the first.

The first single.

And Stanley produced it, and I do some stuff on his album.

He'd come in, do stuff on mine and.

And George.

The same thing is.

Is all, you know, is all like.

I mean, we just.

We just had fun.

James Ingram, you know, James was from Akron, Ohio as well.

I met James when I was 15.

I still lived in Akron and, you know, we did.

We did stuff.

I did stuff on James and stuff.

James would come do stuff on mine.

I sang on.

I sang on the Michael Jackson on.

On the Thriller album, you know, pyt.

It was me and James on background.

And so it was all.

It was all about.

And that was like, you know, the whole thing.

Like that whole Luther.

The Luther documentary.

Yeah, they had out.

That's what we did.

I did.

I did sessions with, you know, me and Luther.

There's a.

There's a photo that comes up during that.

You know, during that.

In that documentary of me, Luther, James, and I think it was Denise Williams, you know, in the studio.

We're in the studio just doing jingles, doing people's background sessions.

You know, Luther was.

He was.

He was amazing.

He was an amazing cat, you know, a good guy.

Good guy.

And.

But that's what we used to.

That's what we always did.

There was a time when I had to come off the road.

My two older daughters at the time, they were like 5 and 7.

And I remember they were 5 and 7.

And it was like one day I was a weekend dad, and literally.

Literally the next day, because of certain circumstances, they were with me all the time.

They were.

They.

They were with me full time.

Right.

Right.

And.

And so.

Which was cool.

It was really good.

We had for about four years.

I was.

For about three or four years or a single dad, you know, single.

Single parent situation before I got married again in.

Right.

And.

But during that time, I had to come off the.

I had to.

I couldn't be on the road as much as I usually was on the road.

So that's when I started doing a bunch of jingles and a bunch of sessions and sessions with Luther, sessions with Patty Austin, you know, Michael McDonald, James Ingram, Pat Benatar.

We did sessions with everybody.

Latoya Jackson.

Latoya.

Yeah, I did.

Then I.

That's when I connected with Joe Isgro and them over and with the record company that she was with.

And.

And we did the.

Did the Heart Don't Lie situation.

It was.

It was main.

It was.

It was.

It was mainly because it was.

You know, it was my first.

One of my first experiences situations with producing and.

Plus, she is so.

She is just so fine, man.

She is just so fine.

I.

I just enjoy just in there and they're just working with.

Yeah.

Now, one of my favorite songs that you.

You add the.

The backing vocals.

Climax.

I still say yes.

I mean, that's one of my favorite.

You.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Do you do that live in your.

Your solo show shows?

I.

I don't do it.

I don't do it in my shows.

I've done it with Climax.

There was a couple shows that I did.

Me and Climax did some shows together, and I came out and did it with Joyce.

With Joyce Irving.

Them.

Yeah.

What was.

What was really flattering about that was that, you know, Joyce came in, asked me to do, you know, the.

The.

Some oohs and ahs on.

There wasn't really.

Even when it really.

Even a lot of lyrics and stuff, it was just.

Just say all that.

All that high stuff and all that.

And once they.

And when they put it out, within a week, without my name even being on there, you know, because I didn't want.

I just, you know, just.

I was just doing it because I loved them and, you know, the good people and we, you know, they were my label mates and all that.

And without even my name being on there, within a week, all the DJs across country, that's Howard Hewitt on there with them.

I said, ah, that's cool.

Okay.

All right.

That's good.

That's what's up.

That's.

That's what's up.

That's cool.

Yeah, great.

Great record.

Yeah.

You know, I.

I wanted.

Excuse me.

The Apollo Theater, you know, the video.

People should look that up on YouTube, man.

You had the ladies in the palm of your hand.

You had them in your arms.

Man, that was a special time in there.

Tell us about, you know, Night at the Apollo Theater.

And, you know, that was the first record, right?

Yeah, that was on first.

Was that the first album?

First or second record?

I think it might have been the second album.

Right.

You know, just the historic value of it was.

Was amazing, you know, because you always heard about, you know, the Apollo and the audience at the Apollo.

It was funny because Bill Cosby was the host of it at that time.

And I.

And I remember.

I think.

I think that was that time.

But I remember standing backstage and he didn't.

He didn't exactly know who I was.

Right, right.

And so he was standing there and like, you know, I was waiting to go on, and he says, don't be nervous now.

You know, there's a hard audience.

It's a hard audience.

Don't be nervous.

I said, okay, Mr.

Cops, you know, thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

And then they said, ladies, Howard Hewitt.

And I walked out and I looked back and he was like, oh, you, Howard?

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so it.

That was fun, but it was.

It was an Amazing.

Amazing experience is, like I said, especially for the historical value of it.

It's like, you know, the, the Apollo Theater.

Come on, man.

It's like, you know, it's crazy.