Shownotes
Rethinking Retirement: "People now look at that phase of life after you leave your career, 65 or older, could be 55 or older, as an opportunity to live life differently than you have before." Mark Matson
We sit down and talk with Mark Matson about transitioning into new phases of life and building a rewarding encore career while giving back to the community. As Mark nears 70, he finds himself with more time for personal interests like swimming and planning a cross-country adventure, though he still enjoys his current job and the surprises it brings.
Mark shares a touching story about helping a guy named Paul move from an 1800 square foot house to a much smaller assisted living space. This wasn't just about logistics; it involved handling strong emotional attachments and practical needs. He talks about the importance of guiding people through such transitions with respect, understanding the sentimental value of their belongings, and finding new homes for cherished items.
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Shifting gears, Mark talks about his past in HR, where he spent years working on talent assessment, training, and development. Over time, he collected a ton of personal assessments like Myers-Briggs, DISC, and Enneagram, helping him understand his strengths, weaknesses, and creativity. This eventually led him to explore new interests like interior decorating, thanks to encouraging words from friends and colleagues.
Retirement planning is another big topic in Mark’s journey. He created a program called "Career Encore" with an HR firm and explored the idea of retirement coaching. Through interviews with retirees, he gained insights on staying active and avoiding a stagnant retirement.
Mark’s venture into business happened almost by accident. A friend needed help managing home renovations and asked Mark to step in. Applying his HR skills in this new context, he discovered a love for home improvement projects. This led to him starting his own “residential concierge” business, handling everything from beekeeping to home renovations. The gig let him use his talent management, emotional intelligence, and communication skills in a new, exciting way, rekindling his joy for seeing tangible results.
Mark recounts the stress of his previous HR role, particularly dealing with layoffs, and his decision to leave in search of more fulfilling work. This resonates with many in his age group who face unexpected career shifts and the challenges that come with them.
Starting his own business wasn't easy, but Mark got invaluable help from accountants and attorneys. He stresses that his journey wasn't meticulously planned—he took it one day at a time, staying motivated and faithful. Networking, researching opportunities, and putting positive intentions out there were crucial.
Mark's approach to Medicare is pretty creative too—he's got a visual “thermometer” to count down the months until eligibility, cutting down health insurance costs. Through his career shifts, he discovered skills he didn't know he had, getting to enjoy personal fulfillment and flexibility by being his own boss.
This episode embodies the value of recognizing transferable skills. It's a conversation full of insights and encouragement for anyone looking to transition into a new chapter in life while making a meaningful impact.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Career journey from Congress to HR director.
07:17 Wish society forewarned uncertain job losses sooner.
14:51 Divine intervention helped avoid challenging job situation.
21:10 Daily reliance and unexpected opportunities unfold daily.
26:50 Developed career encore course with retirement coaching.
31:21 Faith led me to take bold steps.
33:55 Asked to project manage home renovations, surprisingly.
41:16 Empathy, curiosity, listening, question-asking for service.
44:31 Everything learned is eventually used in life.
51:54 Grateful; Universe provides unexpectedly every month.
54:15 Helping navigate moving and letting go process.
01:00:51 Embrace change, avoid binary trap, gain presence.
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Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.
Copyright 2025 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson
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Listener Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised.
Transcripts
Hi. This is Brett. Many in our neighborhood are approaching retirement age, but not quite ready to completely leave employment and a paycheck. Our guest today is going to tell us about his journey to create a new career path for himself while also filling a critical need in the community. Please welcome Mark Mattson, residential concierge. We don't get to say concierge.
Carol Ventresca [:I know. Not a cool word.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Welcome, Mark. I can't wait to hear more about that that title.
Carol Ventresca [:It's very cool.
Mark Matson [:Isn't that nice? Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Mark, thank you so much for being with us today. We're excited to hear about the journey you've taken. We get into a lot of details when we're going through our phases in life. And when you're trying to hit a new adventure, you're never really sure, you know, what what the next steps are going to be. So before we get into what you're actually doing, we'd like to hear about your background and sort of the steps that you've taken to move into this encore, quote, unquote, retirement job.
Mark Matson [:Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to spend the this time with you. I'm one of those I remember back when I was a kid. I remember when, it was time to decide when where to go to college and what to study. I was one of those kids that was like, I don't know. And I always envied people who knew from an early age what it was they wanted to be, discipline themselves, and they became the concert pianist that they imagined themselves to be. That's not my experience. And, you know, just a little bit of my background, you can see it. I have a bachelor's degree in urban geography.
Mark Matson [:I went from that to become a congressional aid in DC, and then I went from that to become a ranch hand out in Colorado, and then I went into the seminary, and I studied to be a priest. And I came out from that, and I ended up going to Ohio State University where I got my degree in, labor relations and human resource management. That's where I settled, and spent 30 some years, of my life in that career, and it was a good career for me. I started out as an intern in a local company and spent 17 years there and ended up as the director of human resources. I learned a lot in that whole process. I also have been involved a lot in leadership organizations in a variety of charities, in Central Ohio, and I've learned a lot about the community. That way, I'm not a native of Columbus, grew up in Colorado, lived in DC, lived in Boston, and ended up here going to the Ohio State. And like a lot of people, you don't leave after you get your degree.
Mark Matson [:You become a Buckeye. It gets into your blood. Right? But I mentioned charitable organizations because one of those is an organization called Ohio Living, which is the largest provider of senior housing continuing care communities in the state of Ohio. And I was chairman of the board of that organization, learned a whole lot about the phase of life that we're talking about today, which is, quote unquote retirement. Ohio Living used to be called the, Presbyterian Retirement System, and they changed their name while I was on the board intentionally because their residents didn't like the word retirement anymore because we're living much longer than we used to, And people now look at that phase of life after you leave your career, 65 or older, could be 55 or older, as an opportunity to live life differently than you have before. I think that's what we're here to talk about today. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. Absolutely. And we've we've got a long, relationship with Ohio Living. Joe Roble, we're gonna give a shout out to him, has been a guest on our podcast and and a supporter of the program, and and it is. It really when they were going through that change, it was really looking at that notion of, you know, retirement sounds like the end, but in actuality, we're all just going through one transition after another transition
Mark Matson [:Exactly.
Carol Ventresca [:Into something different.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm. So, you know, to get to today's topic, I wanna talk about how, my 30 some years in human resources came to an end because it wasn't a a planful sort of thing. Part of my job and the part I didn't like very much was about planning and conducting reductions in force when a company has to make adjustments because of the financials of the organization or perhaps strategy changing or whatever. And I would often know in that role working with the CFO long before the rift happened, who was involved. And, of course, that was all entirely confidential. So it's part of my job, but I did that 3 years in a row, in an organization that was contracting. And in the 4th year, looking at the financials of the organization and the cost of labor, I realized that senior management had not yet chipped in to the effort. We had
Brett Johnson [:I like that. I like that.
Mark Matson [:We'd been cutting billable staff, and that didn't make sense to me. And so long and short of it, I ended up I made the decision the company didn't need a vice president of organization development any longer, and I had been grooming someone to be my successor who would be much less expensive on the payroll and I thought was capable of taking over the responsibilities for what was a smaller organization than when I came on board. And so, basically, I fired myself. I put my job on the cutting block knowing that, I would qualify for severance, and unemployment, and that would help bridge me. Another important point to make, because it sounds like a noble thing to do, but, somewhat, but I was also burned out. Mhmm. I was tired of this. I could feel it inside of me, and I'm not a quitter, but this was an opportunity to move on because my body literally, my body was telling me this isn't any fun anymore.
Mark Matson [:And finally, I'm single. I didn't have a family that was dependent upon me financially, and I was a saver, And so it was, easier for me to take that risk. So that kinda brings us to the point when I jumped off, you know, the career that I had had for 32 years.
Carol Ventresca [:And and your story is different in that you were part of the guide to make the ending happen, but so many individuals in our age range have had to go through this where, they have been riffed or companies completely closed. When I took over at Employment for Seniors, we had thousands of people, mid managers, looking for work, which had never happened before. Because as you said, it's normally management is normally not who is affected. Exactly. And it's very difficult for people to, move to the next phase. And often, they think the next phase is going to be the same as what they have done. And so you had an opportunity to do something different.
Mark Matson [:Correct.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. Wonderful.
Brett Johnson [:You know, and and again, we we said this before we started recording that we're gonna go down rabbit holes a little bit. But I gotta make a comment on that just thinking that I know people I'd not literally know people, but I it's saying people in in what your position was knowing could see the future and know exactly, yeah, they're gonna be gone in x amount of months or a year, whatever the case might be. It's too bad that we can't have a society that would actually let those people know at that point in time. So they had a chance to at least have many more months ahead of time to look for something Mhmm. And to be prepared for it versus what you hear today of, like, what was it just that I heard recently that's a company is gonna be downsizing and by the end of December, they're gone. And, you know, as we record the very beginning of November, it's like again, you know the company is doing it. You don't know if your name is on that list?
Mark Matson [:No. That's why we have to be our we have to be agents for ourselves. Yeah. I think all of us know that our parents' generation, my father worked for the same company for 40 years. That was the norm. Mhmm. You had a contract, kind of an implied contract.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Mark Matson [:You know, I'll do I'll take care of you. You take care of me. Those days were are long gone. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Long gone.
Mark Matson [:And so each of us as an employee have to be advocates for ourself. Part of my role of it with doing reductions in force are just handling, terminations, was working without placements firms to help people, to do that affect that bridge. So I have that in my background as well in terms of how outplacement firms help people across that divide, hopefully, to a better place on the other side.
Carol Ventresca [:And, you know, it it goes back to a message that we've had from other guests who are experts in in helping people find employment, is you are always a job seeker. Because as you said, it's not the norm. I retired from Ohio State after 30 years with the state of Ohio. That doesn't happen anymore. And, if you are not advocating for yourself and and really look at your role as constantly looking for another opportunity, you're gonna be behind the 8 ball.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Well, so many boomers have reached or are nearing retirement. Some moving with excitement, others with trepidation. We often hear individuals wishing they had a plan, quote unquote, of what to do in retirement. They would feel, likely feel more excited about it. How do you envision retirement for yourself?
Mark Matson [:That's a great question. So I was kind of starting to think about that. I was, 62, when this change happened in my life. So 3 years before I would qualify for Medicare, and 4 years before I would qualify, for Social Security, because I wanted to take it when I could get the optimum benefit. And so I was I had a succession plan I was putting in place, and I was also envisioning myself to be an executive, leadership coach. And I pursued certification from a organization called Coach Academy, and acquired that certificate. So my thought was is that when, I've wrapped up my career in human resources, I would then go on because a lot of my work involved working with leaders and doing leadership training and coaching seemed like a natural thing, for me to do. And, when I left the organization, and started the next change by the way, there's been so many intersections in my life where I've said, well, what now?
Brett Johnson [:No. What he just put the very beginning of of going to to preschool, basically. Right. No. Yeah. I can't imagine him just sitting in front of a mirror going, what now, Mark?
Mark Matson [:Yeah. Right. Exactly. What now? So, I I, I had an offer from an organization that would take me in that direction, of coaching, and I started seriously investigating it. But my heart wasn't into it. And I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the energy for it. Part of it was that I would have to market myself as a coach, and I'm marketing just that, no. I'm not into self promotion.
Mark Matson [:I don't know how to do this. I don't not into self promotion. I don't know how to do this. I don't wanna do it. But it was more than that, and, I think it became it was fatigue with, people problem solving. I had done so much of that, you know, over time, and I was good at it. So I had developed those skills very well, but my body was I just didn't have the the enthusiasm for it. So my plan was in place, but my heart wasn't there.
Mark Matson [:And I really wanted something different, and that, the next part of the story about how that opportunity presented itself. So it wasn't in my plan, starting to just listen to my heart.
Carol Ventresca [:When you're when you're saying that you were sort of starting to think about retirement, and age is an issue. The difference in our retirements when I retired from Ohio State, I was only 54. But the retirement system provided insurance for us.
Mark Matson [:Yes.
Carol Ventresca [:So I had 11 years before I could get on to Medicare, and that is critical. And when, congress missed that opportunity to reduce the age on Medicare, it made a difference in a lot of people who are really thinking about doing early early retirements from their current career path and moving to something different, but needing that little bit of stability. It makes a huge difference for somebody who is wanting to make a change. The other thing too, when I left my position, after, you know, with nonprofit management, I was tired, but I also it was like I couldn't take on one more burden from another person. And that was where so folks were saying, you could write grants, and you could do resume reviews. And I'm like, nah. No. I don't wanna do that.
Mark Matson [:I could do it.
Carol Ventresca [:Yes. That doesn't mean I want to. Right. Exactly. So, you know, Mark and Mark and I have had some great conversations along these lines.
Mark Matson [:You bring up a really good point about medical insurance. That's a huge inhibitor
Carol Ventresca [:Absolutely.
Mark Matson [:And very daunting. And that's why I mentioned that I was single. You know, if I'd had people dependent on me, I may not have made the decision that I made.
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm.
Mark Matson [:But that that said, that was the scariest part of the transition. I knew that I could access medical care. I could access my company's medical care, but at the cost. Mhmm. And that was about a 700 well, it was about a $500 a month increase that I'd have to come up with. At the same time, I'm taking a huge pay cut. So the natural instinct was to find to replace what I had been doing with a job that was similar that I would knew I could do, and I did attempt. I did, actually interview and came close to 2 different HR executive positions, and in hindsight, I was spared, in both of them when I did not receive it.
Mark Matson [:One of those this was just before COVID. And in one of them, I would have been hired just in time to start laying a whole bunch of people off. So I kind of see that as divine intervention in a way. Right? But I just wanna say at the beginning of this journey, I thought this one of the things I thought, how am I going to do this? And I really was I have to do this a month at a time. I couldn't look too far down the road because it was too daunting. So in the background, I had a friend who was encouraging me to take another leap, which was we were having dinner, one night. This was a a woman named Mary that, I knew from church. Mary had gone through a similar thing.
Mark Matson [:She's about 20 years older than I am or 15, something like that. You'd never know it, but different generation, but she left a high paying career as well. And she is today an interior decorator, and has been doing that for about 15 years and so forth, and that was her big leap, when she did it. Now in her case, she had a husband with an income. So that was you know, each of us has our own different circumstances. But over dinner, she said, have you ever thought going in business for yourself? And then I just looked at her like, she's nuts. And I said, no. Maybe for 10 seconds, I've thought about that.
Mark Matson [:You ought to think about that. You you could do what I do. You know? You could be you can help, be an interior designer. I said, I don't know anything about that. She said, yes. You do. She said, I see it every time I walk in your house. It's just natural to you.
Mark Matson [:You don't even think about it as a skill set. And I said, Mary, I have been on someone else's payroll my entire life. I don't know anything about running a business. I'm not good at accounting, and yet I could just list all the I can't this, I can't that, I don't know this, and so forth. And she said, stop. She said, I want you to just think about this and see where your heart's at, in it. She said, I didn't know those things either, and you'll learn it one step at a time, one day at a time. Everything I know now, I was taught, by other people in the field, you know, and so forth.
Mark Matson [:So that really planted a seed in my mind about something I'd never considered. Then I started talking to other people who were small business people. Oh, yeah. I didn't know anything about that either. You know? You know? But I found this great account, and she keeps me out of trouble with the IRS and so forth. You know? You want her name? And somebody else has said, I can give you the name of an attorney that can get you incorporated and help you through the whole thing with incorporating in the state and so forth, and somebody can help me with taxes, and these were all things that were very daunting to me. I just throw a few of those out because these happened step by step, conversation by conversation. It wasn't a grand plan.
Mark Matson [:It evolved, and I it really was a journey of faith. I had to believe every day, that I could do this. So one of the things I did was set up my little home office, and I went out to Hobby Lobby or someplace like that and bought some those wooden letters that you can get, and I put across my wall by my desk, it says I can and I will. They're still there. I looked at it every day, and then I created what I call a wall of inspiration, and it really was shelf paper that I hung from the ceiling to the floor. And every time I heard something that would inspire me, give me hope, and so forth, I would write it down, on that. And I'm looking at some notes that I brought in because I had some quotes, from that. Oh, here's one.
Mark Matson [:It's a every exit is an entry somewhere else. On your deathbed, will you regret trying this or regret not trying?
Brett Johnson [:Unless it kills you.
Mark Matson [:Yes. And it kills you. That's right. Might get you there sooner. Might get you there. But then, you know, whatever. No. Oh, yes.
Mark Matson [:Exactly.
Carol Ventresca [:But it was an adventure getting there.
Mark Matson [:Yeah. Well, I thought about that. I thought, you know, I would I would regret this if I didn't take this risk and try it. And then the other one was when I let go of who I am, I become what I might be. When I let go of what I have, I receive what I need. So those are some examples of things that kind of helped me each day and so forth. So, we'll get into, you know, how I got into residential concierge.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. I'm gonna jump back here a second though too. Without, disparaging or underestimating or under underestimating your thought process in this journey. I I want to commend you for your research because even having dinner with your friend, talking to other small business people, I think that people I think that individuals shortchange themselves by immediately saying I can't do that without putting the few steps it takes to do some research.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:When I moved from having been on a payroll for the state of Ohio for 30 years and jumped into nonprofit management, had I known I may not have done it, but I just jumped in with all faith and said, oh, yeah. I can figure this out. It is running a business. A nonprofit is running a business. And although you think you're on a payroll, well, you're not on a payroll if you're not out there making the money to meet that payroll. So it it it is a lot of research and a lot of finding out how to do things and, getting people to help you through that process.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm. And that's the each day.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Mark Matson [:So the thing that I thought about was the story of the Israelites in the desert. They're going from something they wanted to leave, Egypt, no fun. Right? And we're going to promised land. Right? But in that story, the Israelites got very nervous a lot of different times, but there's a prayer that we say, a lot of us do, the Lord's prayer. It says, give us this day our daily bread. That comes right from the story, in the desert when manna was provided to the tribe of Israel every day. What I remembered was give us this day, our daily bread, not a week's supply, not a month's supply. It was the day, so I would remind myself in the morning when I got up, what am I gonna do today? And as I went further and further along, things unfolded I didn't expect when I started the day, like running into somebody for lunch who said, I've got an accountant that could really help you.
Mark Matson [:And then at the end of the day, I would take count of the what happened during the day and the things that were unexpected. What blessing came that day? What was the manna? And then wake up the next day and think, what's this day gonna bring? And that's how this what I'm doing now unfolded gradually rather than starting with a plan in place, which you I might have done if I was going to actually open up a storefront, right, and sell, lamps, for example. Then I couldn't have done this this way. So but your today is about my story.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I I'm a big believer in that, and you did this in in some fashion of letting the universe know you're going to do this. Mhmm. Talking to people.
Mark Matson [:Put the intention out there.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And all of a sudden, the universe takes care of you. Mhmm. Gives you a lead. Like, I know I know that I know it. I know an accountant. You know, that sort of thing. I I when I started my business, I did that on purpose reading the books that you're supposed to read, and and really felt that's like, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:The the the twofold. Number 1, putting it out in the universe, you're going to do this. Secondly, you have all these other people holding you accountable. Mhmm. They're gonna ask you. Mhmm. How's it going? How's it going? And you don't wanna lose face going, I haven't done anything with it today.
Mark Matson [:Right. Back tomorrow.
Brett Johnson [:Tomorrow. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Well, Brett was my worldview when I took over employment for seniors as a member of our board. I used to be able to sell the university's courses, but that was kind of easy because I, you know, I had all the resources I needed to do that. So now I'm walking into a nonprofit and I become the voice in the face of a nonprofit, and he's the one who taught me to sell our nonprofit. Mhmm.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:And so
Brett Johnson [:Enter and live with sponsorships and
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:And and the like that there was value to what the nonprofit was doing to somebody. Yes. Say an organization they wanna ride that gravy train too.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Brett Johnson [:That it made sense for them to be a part of because it's a good thing.
Carol Ventresca [:And and it really what our journey really was day by day. Mhmm.
Mark Matson [:Oh, yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:We did a little bit each day. Yeah. So yeah. So this so I guess what I'm hoping that the message is to the audience today is, the world is your oyster, but that doesn't mean you don't have to, make yourself accountable to others. Let the world know what you're doing. But also, for me, getting that research in, getting that networking in that really makes a difference in how you can be successful. So when you first started and you were talking about all these wonderful jobs that you had, congressional, you were working in congress. I I was an intern in congress.
Carol Ventresca [:That's there's nothing more cool than being able to walk around.
Mark Matson [:That's when I decided I didn't wanna be a politician.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, exactly. Yes. Those are the experiences that really teach you. Working on a ranch, did you say?
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:You, as an HR person, really understand how skills can be created, honed, developed, transferred into new areas. So let's talk about when you were starting out on this new adventure, how did you evaluate your abilities to do this, and how did you determine what you had to learn?
Mark Matson [:Yeah. Well, you mentioned being an HR professional that kinda gave me a lead because part of human resource management is always assessing skills, somebody else's or your own. And a lot of my career was focused on training and development, so building those skills and so forth. And so, you know, I have at home a binder about 3 inches thick, that has all these assessments I've taken over the years. I have been, assessed and performance appraisals and tested, and I have all these
Carol Ventresca [:and diced.
Mark Matson [:Yes. I have a the binder full of these things. So, like, I have a a life transition planning guide I put together. I did something called the Birkman on strengths and needs. I have the Myers Briggs type indicator by the by the way, I'm an ENFPJ. I couldn't even decide. I wasn't even clear on some of those things. There's the dicks DISC style and conflict, Enneagram, I'm a type 6 loyalist, Firo B, love languages, you name it.
Mark Matson [:K. So I had what I'm trying to say is that I had accrued over time in my career lots of assessments saying what, my strengths were, what my weaknesses were, and so forth. And then when I left, I worked with an HR consulting firm to develop a course called career encore. And I didn't know that there are such a things as retirement coaches. So there are coaches out there that help people at this stage of life as well. I looked at my bucket list in that process. I looked at health and finances, relationship priorities. I did value sort, looked at a life retrospective.
Mark Matson [:I was even encouraged to do interviews of people in retirement, to ask them, you know, how's it been? What have you learned about this process and so forth? One of those people was my older brother, Rick, who's 10 years older than I am and was retired. He was a nuclear physicist. And he said his one regret was retiring early without any plan. So this is your point about a plan. I didn't have a plan in the way of having a 5 page thing saying with 5, you know, 7 steps, and I'm gonna do this and that. He just left, the lab and thought he was going to, I think, fertilize the lawn and, different things, and that didn't work out for him. So I learned something, about that. And I interviewed another friend of mine who was in his eighties.
Mark Matson [:He was a guy that I ride my motorcycle with a lot. His name is Jack, and he had his own business, very successful business that he left. And he said to me, retirement as it's defined is a disease because it implies stopping. His advice to me was don't stop, Mark. When you retire from your job, see it as an intersection with many new possibilities, not a cul de sac. And that's what my brother, I think. He found himself in a cul de sac.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, I like that too. Yeah.
Mark Matson [:By the way, Jack is now teaching, leadership to people in the performing arts at Columbia University in New York City. He flies back and forth from Cincinnati, but it's a a quite a stretch from what he was doing before. Uh-huh.
Brett Johnson [:Wow. So with all those assessments that you have a 3 inch binder for, and this will lead to the question that'd be kinda twofold. Number 1, was there a common thread, Though I know each assessment kind of tells you something different though. Was there a common thread that you got from it if you could look back over it or maybe it's too much over your career to kind of see? But, you know, did that help or, you know, when you started going on your own, I mean, what what helped you take that leap of faith in yourself? Was it the 3 inch binder knowing, okay, this tells that this 3 inch binder tells me I can do it or what helped you create you know, get get that leap of faith to do it?
Mark Matson [:One of the things the 3 inch binder told me is that I have a lot of creativity, which was curbed in many ways by business. You know? And, it helped me in my business, but that I had this creative side to me. I mentioned to you that Mary mentioned something about interior decorating. When she said that, there was something inside of me that said, yes, but I don't know anything about it. Right? And I thought about this before our conversation. I've, I first started to think I'm not a risk taker, and then I looked back in my life, and I thought, no. That's not exactly true. That's how I ended up on a ranch in Colorado.
Mark Matson [:I had gone out to start an MBA program, and it took me 7 weeks to realize I was in the wrong place. That's what everybody did back in the eighties when you didn't know what to do is you got a master's in business administration. And then I ended up, being a caretaker on a 68 acre ranch, taking care of horses and pigs and cows and stuff, and I knew nothing about that either. I was a city boy, but the owner of the ranch taught me, and it was one of the best years of my life.
Brett Johnson [:How did you leave that then?
Mark Matson [:Why? Because I I couldn't have made a living Oh my goodness. What I was doing.
Brett Johnson [:Because it sounds so
Mark Matson [:It was great. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:It does. Yeah.
Mark Matson [:So, anyway, my point being, I think that I am a person of faith, and, I've often, I've taken leaps in the past, but often because I had to, life kinda pushed me, kinda like having a pirate, with a weapon and you're on the plank sort of thing, kind of that's how I left my HR career. Right? But when I was running when I was in high school, I remember I ran for student body president, and I had to give a speech. And I was asking my father for some inspiration, and he gave me this poem, which I recommend to people listening today. Look it up on the Internet. It's called It's All in the State of Mind by a gentleman named Walter Winkle. It'll come right up in your search. But it starts out and says, if you think you are beaten, you are. If you think that you dare not, you don't.
Mark Matson [:If you'd like to win but think you can't, it's almost certain you won't. Think big and your deeds will grow. Think small and you'll fall behind. Think that you can and you will. It's all in the state of mind. And that came back to me. That's why I have the sign in my office that says I can and I will, That I knew a lot of what was ahead of me was a mind game, and it was also about the heart. It was about following my heart to my next step.
Mark Matson [:What was really in my heart? Human resources, when I got into it, was really a practical thing. I needed I need something to pay the bills and do something, and it was a good fit for me. But let me just tell you kind of the next part of the story, which is, a friend of mine, who held a high position at Ohio State University, was in the midst of a big change in his life, and I got connected through mutual friends, because of my interest in leadership coaching, and we shared the same faith. So we had kind of that in common and so forth. In any case, he, part of his big change was separation from his wife, after raising 3 kids. And, he was at one of those intersections. Well, what now sort of thing. And, he end up, for various reasons, purchasing a home for himself, a 6,000 square foot home on an acre of land.
Mark Matson [:And I was a 100 years old, and I thought he was nuts, because he was 62 at the time too. I said, this is not what people do at our point in life. Right? Where he comes into my story is is he said to me, while you're trying to figure out what you're gonna do with the rest of your life, Would you be interested in being my project manager? What do you have in mind? He said every time I come home to this lovely old home, it depresses me because there's so much that needs to be done, and I have no time. I can't wait around for a plumber between 25 to show up at the house. He had a very demanding job. And he said, so, you're interested in homes, old homes. What if I gave you a list of all the things that I think need to be done on this place? And you apply your HR skills. You do the talent searching.
Mark Matson [:You go out and you find the people that have the skills to do what needs to be done. You screen them. You bring me recommendations just like you did to your hiring managers. I'll make the decision on who I hire. And then he said, you'll be my representative because I can't be at the home when I have carpenters in the house or plumbers in the house and so forth, and I want you to supervise because I know you know homes. And that resonated with my heart because I do love homes. I've always loved home improvement. I like working with my hands, and I'd been working a lot with my head, through my career.
Mark Matson [:And so I said, yeah. I can do that while I'm trying to figure out what I wanna do. And I'd already had the conversation with Mary about starting my own business and so forth. And so those two things started happening at the same time, but the most important part, as I recounted the story, was, one day, I was working in a particular room in the house that had all this wonderful, you know, plaster work in it and crown molding and so forth, and I'm admiring the craftsmanship in the home. I'm also painting. K? Now I like to paint. A lot of people don't, but I like to paint because I can actually see the results of my labor. In human resources are working with people.
Mark Matson [:It's anybody's guess, in a particular day whether you've had any impact or not, you know, but when they paint a room, at the end of the day, you can step back and say, much better. I've actually done something here. Right? In this particular day, I had music playing, and I was painting, and I was singing, and I caught myself singing. And I said, when was the last time you were singing at work? And I will never forget that day. And so as this this project went along, I found it very enjoyable, and I found I was good at it. And I loved managing projects, and I loved the people that I was meeting, the skilled craftsmen and so forth. It was taking me into worlds that I'd never explored before, and I'm meeting people that are really interesting people, an upholsterer, you know, or a plaster repairman and just talking to them. And so that's how I got started.
Mark Matson [:And then it's like, well, can I market this? Or, I mean, how can I make a life out of this? Okay. I never did develop a marketing plan, because I didn't have to. It spread by word-of-mouth. This gentleman, neighbors said, you know, who's this person you got working over there all the time for you? You know? So he'd tell him about what I was doing and so forth and said, I need somebody like that. You know? And so that's how my business got started. I came up with the term residential concierge because, I loved being helpful. I loved he threw all kinds of things at me. He decided that he wanted to be a beekeeper, so I needed to find out about beekeeping.
Mark Matson [:And turns out I was the one that received the shipment of bees when they came and so forth. That's what I mean by getting into things I would never get into, and I can go on with long lists. And, a concierge at a hotel, what do you do when you look for the concierge? Why do you seek a concierge at a hotel?
Carol Ventresca [:So you don't get lost.
Mark Matson [:That's why In
Carol Ventresca [:a town that you don't know.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm. What else?
Brett Johnson [:Find the best things, best people, best places.
Mark Matson [:Yeah. Where's a good place to eat? Mhmm. Where can I find a good show? You know, how can I catch a cab? What's this, that, so for Or
Brett Johnson [:shouldn't I go?
Mark Matson [:Yes. Where shouldn't I go? Yes. Right. You want somebody who knows the the territory. Right? Can help you out. And I thought that's what I'm doing here. I have someone who is has a home that they love, and they have problems with the homes. They are improvements that they wanna make.
Mark Matson [:They wanna get from where we are current state to something different, might be an addition to the house, you know, or whatever. It might be moving from the house to a new house. How? And so that would become that's what I would do. I would find all the answers to people's questions about how do I get this done? How do I get a piano tuned? Where do I find somebody to repair a grandfather clock that my great grandfather gave me? You know, how do I, etcetera, etcetera. And so I thought I'm a concierge for homeowners. And that's how I came up with the term. Actually, it was the guy that helped me develop my website, and my business cards. That was the 2 steps I had to take.
Mark Matson [:I had to come up with a name for my business too in order to get incorporated in the state of Ohio. So I picked at the time forward focus because I was gonna do coaching, and it was about the idea was that I would help people get from their current state to a desired future state, you know, so we look forward. And I thought that's exactly what I'm doing with homeowners as I'm helping them get from their current state house that needs a new roof to one that has a new roof and help them get from point a to point b.
Brett Johnson [:Of the many skills and abilities honed over the years, which provided the tools you needed to develop your new career path? Were there any surprises along the way? Did you have a a surprise hidden talent that kinda go, I can do that beyond beyond the singing? Yeah.
Mark Matson [:I'm not talented with that. I'm fine when I'm on my own sort of thing. Yeah. So, in this process, the skills that were applicable, weren't my talent management skills I've already mentioned. So finding talent, screening it, placing it, and developing talent. I would say my emotional intelligence. In my human resources careers, I had a lot of dicey conversations with people, and often trying to bridge understanding between manager and and direct report or between conflict and direct reports and team training and so forth. But I had I started learning those when I was a kid in my family, you know, in terms of bridging people in the family and so forth.
Mark Matson [:So I would I call it my EQ, and then listening. I'm a natural, naturally curious, but I'm also empathetic, and I'm curious about why people behave the way they do, how they react to different things, why they act, and so forth. So it makes me, I ask good questions, and I listen. Well, that's a really important thing in customer service. When I'm talking to a client is my ability to ask questions, and draw out what it is they really want and how they want it and so forth, and then listening, of course, to the response. Or I often carry messages between skilled craftspeople, and the owner of the home. So I just did that yesterday working on the repair of a low voltage lighting system, and I met with the electricians, and I learned how the whole thing was laid out and how it worked with the transformer and so forth so that I, later today, can convey it to the homeowner. Problem solving.
Mark Matson [:I learned that I I never thought of myself as a project manager when I was in business, but I love it. I love being given a problem, and I love finding the resources and finding a solution. It's very satisfying work, and then leading teams. The hidden talent, I think, I discovered through all this, is that I can be a CEO. Yeah. I didn't think I could do I could run my business, and here I am. I've been doing it successfully. I remember the end of my 1st year when I paid off the taxes, you know, closed up the year, and because I went month to month.
Mark Matson [:Every month when I would bill, do my invoices, I would think, alright. I've made it another month. I'm a month closer. I even had a big thermometer in one of my rooms with going down the months till I could qualify for Medicare and stop paying so much for my health insurance. Okay. Another month. Oh, I've only got 9 months to go. Okay.
Mark Matson [:8 months to go, so forth. But I learned I could do something I thought was really not possible Yeah. When I started.
Brett Johnson [:So all of those skills you learned after.
Mark Matson [:Yes. Yeah. In the process.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Which we've talked many, many times prior to moving out to to moving on knowing your transferable skills as soft skills to kind of recognize them. And I think that's a good example. You may not recognize them until you actually get into that new job or at least back here in the back of your head, you probably knew them then they come to the front. But I'm not saying not to try to recognize them prior, but sometimes they're not evident till you go out and do it.
Carol Ventresca [:And I think yeah. It I think that we have a lot of skills that, we don't see how they transfer into a new situation.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Right. I'm meaning that really when it comes down to it.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. One of the skills I thought you might mention that you didn't was negotiating.
Mark Matson [:I
Carol Ventresca [:mean, HR folks are always negotiating and basically that's what you're doing in this job too.
Mark Matson [:Right.
Carol Ventresca [:Completely different context of the use of that skill, but it's still the same skill.
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:So yeah. Yeah. I I mean, we I I always used to tell folks, students when I first started in grad school at Ohio State and I was an academic adviser, and they would grumble because they had to take a chemistry course or they had to take, you know, a a philosophy course or a history course. And I said, you know, there isn't anything I have ever learned in a classroom that I haven't sometime utilized. I hated high school chemistry, absolutely hated it. But in my first job in private industry, I get a call from the president of the company that says, I'm I'm going to have, one of the chemistry faculty at Ohio Ohio State do this for me. I need you to go over, talk to them, explain it, blah blah blah blah, and get the information back to me. On a high school chemistry class, I did that.
Carol Ventresca [:I mean, you just you learn to learn. You're not only learning skills, but you're learning to learn as you grow up, And you have to take advantage of all of those opportunities because you it's never gonna be a waste of time.
Mark Matson [:No. That's true. And I think also the part about heart. I've lived so much in my life in my head. Mhmm. And, you know, this was an opportunity to really pay more attention to that other sense organ in my heart. So I really enjoyed what I was doing. So one day, I was, refinishing the front door of this 100 year old home, which in itself is a work of art, and it just sits on heavy iron hinges because it's so heavy.
Mark Matson [:It's solid oak, you know, with the big brass knocker on it and so forth, and I'm putting, sanding it down and giving it a a new life of black enamel paint. It's coming back to life. But I'm thinking about all the people who have gone through that door over a 100 years, and this is the first part of the house. It was the part of the house. So I think of it as a house having a personality. This was the welcome post, you know, to the house and so on and so on. So it gave me a lot of pleasure working on it. So the at the face value, it's like, I gotta paint the front door.
Mark Matson [:But for me, that door was about history, and I was contributing to you know, I was putting a lipstick back on the front door or something you wanna call it. Why do I bring that up? Because there were many experiences where I thought I'm really in I'm loving this. I love what I'm doing. And when you love what you're doing, then the things that you're not so good at doing, like invoicing and doing tax forms, and all that sort of stuff, they become bearable. I wanted to learn because I wanted to enable my ability to do what I was loving.
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm. You know, there's an old saying about, if you love what you're doing, it's not really work. Part of that is too that when you were working for companies on somebody's payroll
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:You might have enjoyed the tasks you were doing, but the underlying goal was for the company. When you're doing it for yourself
Mark Matson [:Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:And you're the underlying goal, it really makes a huge difference in in terms of success rate of success, for sure. It and it's not just loving the task. It's loving the fact that you're the basis of it. As you said, your heart.
Mark Matson [:Yep. And I love him being my own boss.
Carol Ventresca [:Well yeah. Exactly.
Mark Matson [:Because, I have so much more flexibility with my schedule now, and I knew the next phase of my life I already mentioned my older brother who was in early stages of Alzheimer's. He was out in Denver long ways. I knew I wanted to have more time to be able to go out and support his wife and support him in this transition, and I wanted to work less. I wanted to cut down from 55 hours a week, and so forth. And so the the this what I'm doing now has enabled me to set my own schedule. I can take on the number of clients I want, and I can stop. I have I have to stop myself. That's a job because I have a tendency to say yes.
Mark Matson [:I can fire a client if it's incompatible. I haven't had to do that, but if I did, if there were some things, for example, I will not be treated with disrespect. And if I had somebody who was treating me that way, then I would say, I don't think this is gonna work. You know, that's what I mean about, like, being my own boss. I'm, more master of my domain, and it has worked out very well. I have a great, flexibility in my schedule. I'm able to do the things I wanna do with my family. I have more time to take up things that are new for me.
Mark Matson [:So like, drawing. I took my first drawing class. Once again, I thought I haven't a clue what I'm doing, and I keep reminding myself I'm a beginner. It's okay to be a beginner at this point in life. The natural tendency is to avoid, I think, things that we don't know, that we're not good at. It's like I'm a right handed I write with my but you can I can learn how to write with my left hand? It just feels clumsy and awkward, and so you tend not to do it. You go back to the right hand because that's what's comfortable with. So it's like that with other things.
Mark Matson [:And other thing I took up was swimming. I was not a good swimmer, and I thought I wanna be a better swimmer. And so I joined, you know, an adult swimming class at the Worthington Rec Center, and it's a little humbling, to get into the pool with people that are 30 years younger than you or whatever, you know, but again, it's I had to it's that state of mind poem that I just read about. I said, you know, I that's we're not here. You don't have you're not being evaluated.
Carol Ventresca [:You you're not going to the Olympics.
Mark Matson [:Anymore. You don't have someone you're gonna have a performance review here, you know, you know, so and so on. You're just learning to swim. Mhmm. And so now I'm doing a mile, an hour in my laps and stuff. So but I had the time to do it. That's the point that I wanted to make. Yeah.
Mark Matson [:And it enabled me to to explore other sides of myself that I've neglected.
Carol Ventresca [:So where is this all taking you? Where where do you see yourself, I don't know, next next year, year after, 5 years?
Mark Matson [:So next year, I will turn the big seven o. And, I'm thinking I want more time. I want time to take a cross country trip. I wanna be able to go with no schedule. I wanna stop in and see different friends that I've acquired across the years in Louisiana and Iowa and California, wherever they might be. I wanna go to the upper peninsula of Michigan and stuff. So I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking maybe maybe I'm ready to kind of wind this down, and stop working. But I don't know because I'm really enjoying what I'm doing.
Mark Matson [:Yep. So I'm not sure, but I am not looking I'm not looking to build my business. The universe has provided for me over and over and over again every month when I would think, well, I looked after this month, and I would see very little in my pipeline of business for the coming month. I think, well, this is gonna be a lean month. And somebody calls me, Something comes out of nowhere, and all of a sudden, I have another month of new stuff to do, that's challenging and interesting to me, and you meet more people. And so now I've got through another month. It's it's been like that, and I so I'm just well, I'm very grateful, and I've learned that I could live on a lot less than I thought I could.
Brett Johnson [:So you had mentioned earlier, a gentleman upsizing basically to a larger home, but you've also done a lot of downsizing projects as well too, or you've been, you know, approached to do so and have accomplished that. Can you talk a little bit about, more about that role of taking all that stuff we've acquired over our lifetime and downsizing that into a, you know, a necessary smaller apartment? Mhmm.
Mark Matson [:Yeah. One of my referrals came to me, involved, organizing a project that involved moving a gentleman from his home, of probably 1800 square feet into a continuing care community. His friends thought that he needed, probably assisted living at the time, so about 600 square feet. Right? So that I took on that project. I knew this gentleman. His name is Paul, through church, and, knew that Paul was gay and had no family at all, approaching 80. And people who were his neighbors, some people in the church were getting increasingly concerned about him mixing up his meds, not eating properly, and so on and so on. So I said yes to that project, and I entered the whole world of senior downsizing, which is huge.
Mark Matson [:And I worked with Paul, every step of the way to help him to decide what to let go of. There's a lot of letting go. What can we take? How's it gonna fit in the new place? Finding movers, finding charitable organizations we could give what he wasn't taking with him, you know, and so forth, working with his, I'll call it family of choice. I'm a member of the LGBTQ community as well. I'm single. I mentioned I'm also gay, and I also am a long ways from my family. So I had I could really empathize with this situation. And in that process, I found out there are a lot of polls out there, and you don't have to be a a member of the LGBTQ community to be daunted by this process of leaving a home that you've lived in for a long time, maybe raised a family in and so forth.
Mark Matson [:So this is one of the things I love about this work is that I learned so much. So I had to learn a lot about the resources in the Columbus area that are in and there are a lot out there to help people with downsizing their companies that will do this and so forth and so on. But for Paul, I did it myself. And we found the rental trucks. We got things found somebody to move things in the trucks and unpacked them, and then I helped him design. I got my interior design work in place, got his new home set up so that it looked like the home that he had before and brought his artwork over and so forth. So that's how I kinda got into downsizing.
Carol Ventresca [:And and there's so many in our community, for whatever reason, are alone and are in need of getting rid of all that stuff, getting rid of that burden. And there's so much emotion involved. They really do need somebody to help kind of guide them through that. What what's her name? Marie con what the the doubt the Yes. It has to bring you joy.
Mark Matson [:Oh, yes. Yes. Right. Right.
Carol Ventresca [:You you you really need somebody who can talk you through getting rid of stuff.
Mark Matson [:Respectfully.
Carol Ventresca [:Exactly. Exactly. When my parents passed away, they had a 45 100 square foot house Yeah. Including my father's 2 workshops, medic, machinist workshops. And I was bound and determined to find homes for all of their stuff and not just dump it at the goodwill. Mhmm. And not disparaging goodwill, they do phenomenal work, but that I thought there were other ways to creatively move stuff along.
Mark Matson [:There are.
Carol Ventresca [:And and it's but it's hard.
Mark Matson [:I just did that for my brother. So a brother I mentioned just passed last month after a long battle with Alzheimer's, and this is wife of 50 years by his side. And I'm so grateful to her because he never had to go into memory care. He was in his own home except for the last week of his life. So I just spent 6 weeks helping her because she wants out of the house. She doesn't want the responsibility of a house anymore, and just finding homes for his coats. He wanted to make sure he loved winter coats, that they went to the homeless. So finding, charity that I would ensure that they would get to the homeless.
Mark Matson [:We did that. He had he was a philosophy professor. Lots of books. Finding a new home for his books and so forth. Mhmm. That's what I mean about kind of doing this process. You need to listen, empathetically to see where the heart is, what people are really attached to, what memories are associated with their things, and so forth, and help them by asking questions. I don't direct I don't tell people.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, you know, the this this stuff idea, it it kinda goes back to what you were talking about refinishing that front door, that every thing has a history, whether it's a hammer or a coat or whatever, that it was handled, held by somebody that knew how to use it Mhmm. Or would know how to wear it.
Mark Matson [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:And it's kind of giving that respect to that person, giving respect to that item, that it's in the right hands and then that person receiving it knows some history about that hammer or about that coat and they give it the respect.
Mark Matson [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:The history.
Mark Matson [:Exactly right.
Brett Johnson [:That, that you feel better about unloading this stuff.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. Well, and it when we talk about someone else's things and call it stuff, it is disrespectful. Mhmm.
Mark Matson [:It
Carol Ventresca [:and it's everything has an emotional tie to them. Yeah. And and and it's it's difficult. Yeah. It took me a year. Took me a year to to deal with all my with my parents.
Mark Matson [:That's pretty good for 45 100 square feet of stuff.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, yeah. Yeah. That it was, you know, their stuff, my stuff, and 2 sets of grandparents' stuff. So, Mark, this has been an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for your time, your expertise. We've really woven together several themes, looking at how does someone face that phase change into a new position, new phase of their life, but also how to make that change your own, feeling positive about what you're doing and excited about what you're doing, ready to get out of bed every day, and and, then also how it also helps other communities and other individuals. So, thank you for all those wonderful messages. We always ask our guests if they have any last words of wisdom, and also if you have suggestions for the resources that people should consider that, may be a need because our listeners are kind of everywhere.
Mark Matson [:Well, a couple of lessons, I think, from my adventure, and it was an adventure. You know, we said you mentioned the word adventure at the beginning, which is when you don't know what you're gonna you're going into the unknown. That's the very definition of adventure. Mhmm. So if you wanna stay in the world that you know, you can do that. I chose to try some different things on, so it has been an adventure. The one thing I, again, for your listeners, would say, look up that poem. It's all in the state of mind because I think how you think has a whole lot to do with what you're going to experience, and I still have that sign on my wall.
Mark Matson [:I can and I will, and because it's been every day, it was the thing that kind of encouraged me for the day. Someone once told me to avoid the binary trap, which is framing things in such a way as to focus on loss inhibits risk taking and can keep you stuck. Instead, ask what can you gain through change. So the the binary trap is it's either loss or gain, and many of us tend to focus on the loss and so forth. And so I have gained so much, by letting go of my formal education in human resources and all that training and so forth. I I left it's kinda like downsizing a house. I took most valuable stuff from all those years of experience and brought it with me to the new phase of my life, and then acquired things that were appropriate to the new taint part of my life. And, and the third thing is I ride, my Harley, a lot, and, I like riding it because it makes me be present.
Mark Matson [:I've mentioned a number of times about being in my head and thinking too much. Thinking causes you to get ahead of yourself. Being on the bike, I have to stay present because I have to be aware of everything that's happening around me for my own safety and others all the time, so it makes me be present. And when you're riding a motorcycle, you can you look ahead, of course, but only to the next curve, and you set your eyes on the next curve. And when you set your eyes there, the bike goes there. Okay? But only the next curve. And when you get around that curve, and you can see where the next one is, and then you set your eyes on that. And I think it's a good metaphor, for this kind of a transition in life.
Mark Matson [:Don't get ahead of yourself. Be present to the day because we have no guarantee of that we're gonna have it tomorrow. My physician once said to me, that, you wouldn't I was asking him about, you know, memory tests and so forth. He said, I I have to tell people all the time. I have to give them bad news that hits them out of the blue about a cancer diagnosis or whatever. You know? It just reminds us we're not immortal. So treasure the day and just look at the curve ahead. That was me each day.
Mark Matson [:How do I where do I need to go today? Let's get there, and then we'll see what's around the corner for the next day. That helped me on this adventure.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, many thanks to our expert guest, Mark Mattson, the residential concierge for joining us today. Lester, thank you for joining us. You're gonna find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast show notes and on our website at looking forward our way.com. We're looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.
