Episode Summary:



Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show Christine Zimmermann-Loessl, Chairwoman at Association for Vertical Farming. Association for Vertical Farming (AVF for short) is an internationally active nonprofit organization of individuals, companies, research institutions and universities focusing on leading and advancing the sustainable growth and development of the vertical farming movement.

Today, Harry and Christine talk about how Christine’s entrepreneurial spirit and natural curiosity led her from studying philosophy and political science to heading one of the largest vertical farming advocate organizations. Christine speaks to the need for all companies in the vertical farming industry to work together to combat issues like overpopulation, climate change and other existential planetary crises facing our world. Finally, Christine and Harry talk about the critical role technology continues to play in our world and our future as well as the importance of remembering that we are all part of nature. It is at this intersection of technology and nature that vertical farming can play a saving role.

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What We Covered:

03:41 – Harry welcomes to the show Christine Zimmermann-Loessl who shares the origins of her entrepreneurial spirit, her background in philosophy and political science, and her goals to understand and positively impact the world

10:26 – An early passion for Chinese medicine

17:08 – The origin story of Association for Vertical Farming and early challenges faced

24:29 – The evolution of Christine’s role at AVF and what she’s observed about competitors and the overall industry

30:00 – Relationship-building in the vertical farming space and growing AVF through partnerships

40:53 – Christine makes a specific ask of the audience

45:56 – Harry thanks Christine for joining the show and reiterates where listeners can go to learn more about AVF and connect with Christine

Tweetable Quotes:

“My father was an entrepreneur, so I grew up with that spirit of being independent and working in the framework that is set by myself and not by somebody else. I could never imagine myself in an office job from nine to five.” (08:20) (Christine)

“Now, with vertical farming, all of that comes together for me with technology and biology. The marriage of these two important developments in our history, I think, is a really decisive transformation for us.” (14:57) (Christine)

“The mandate [of Association of Vertical Farming] clearly was to raise awareness and build a collaboration and cooperation platform where the few people or institutions who were active in that field had a place together to exchange and grow organically from there.” (20:41) (Christine)

“In the beginning, as a newcomer into that field with a very different background in philosophy and political science and not agriculture, I really played the role of organization setup for the legal and administrative things. There were people in the front representing and knowing much more than me about that and I was really more in the back than I am now. That totally changed, but I really had to grow into that role and into the field to really understand.” (24:36) (Christine)

“Technology is important, but please never forget that we are part of nature. Vertical farming can play a role in freeing land giving back to nature and not using more and more land. That is what my understanding is.” (40:21) (Christine)

Links Mentioned:

Vertical Farming Show

Christine’s LinkedIn

VertiFarm Website

Association for Vertical Farming Website

Association for Vertical Farming Facebook

Association for Vertical Farming Twitter

Association for Vertical Farming LinkedIn

Association for Vertical Farming YouTube Channel

Association for Vertical Farming Instagram

Associations for Vertical Farming Email

Link to Call of the Forest

Christine’s Email

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website

Cultivatd Instagram

Cultivatd’s Twitter

Cultivatd’s Facebook

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or click the link in the show notes. I really played the role

for the organizational setup, for the

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let's say, the people in front

contacting and representing, knowing much

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more in, in the back than I am now. That totally changed.

But I really had to grow into that role and into

the— and also into the field to really

understand.

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations

with fascinating CEOs, Founders, and agtech

visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the

world of vertical farming with your host, Harry

Duran. Vertical Farming Podcast Season 4, welcome back.

If this is your first time you've ever discovered this podcast,

well, congratulations. I'm guessing you're in the right place if you're looking for a show

where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies

from around the world. I am said host, Harry Duran.

last week. Really insightful conversation with someone who's just getting

off the ground with his company, Ray Urrutia, founder and

CEO of Terra Firma Foods, an organization that's seeking to

develop vertical farms in an innovative way to grow

organic crops. What I love about it is how

early on they are and probably one of the earliest in terms of companies that

have been on this podcast. And so they're going to be a fun

project to watch. And no doubt because of Ray's experience, I'm

really voting for him and have cast my votes for him

and given him all the support he needs. So that'll be fun to watch. This

week, a long overdue conversation with Christine Zimmerman. She's the

chairwoman at Association for Vertical Farming. It's an internationally active

nonprofit organization of individuals, companies, research

institutions, and universities focusing on leading and advancing the sustainable

growth and development of the vertical farming movement. In this episode, Christine and

I discuss how her entrepreneurial spirit and natural curiosity led

her from studying philosophy and political science to heading up one of the

largest vertical farming advocate organizations. Christine speaks to the

need for all companies in the vertical farming industry to work together to combat

issues like overpopulation, climate change, and other existential

planetary crises facing our world. Finally, we talk about the critical

role technology continues to play in our world and our future, as well

as the importance of remembering that we're all part of nature. It's at this intersection

of technology and nature that vertical farming can play a very important,

crucial role. Special thanks to episode sponsor

Indoor AgCon. Whether you are starting up or scaling up, AgCon can

help you grow your vertical farming business. This year, the premier trade show and

conference for vertical farming and CEA heads to

Caesars in Las Vegas, February 28th through March 1st.

And yes, I will be there. They are co-locating with the National Grocers

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peers and grocers and other potential new business partners. Save

an additional 25% off with our new promo code

VFP0D22 and learn more at

indoor.ag. As always, if you enjoyed this episode or past

episodes, leave us a rating and a review at

ratethispodcast.com/vfp and we'll be sure to read

yours out on future episodes. Okay, let's hear a

little bit more about the organization from Christine. So

Christine Zimmerman-Lausel, chairwoman at the Association for Vertical Farming, thank

you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Very happy. Thank

you, Harry, for having me. We were talking about

where we're at, and we're both competing to see who's in the coldest

location. Yes, I can't compete. Yeah,

what's it like over there where you're at? Where's home for you right now, for

the benefit of the listener? Yes, I'm in Munich in Bavaria

in the south of Germany since— Oh, really? Yeah, more

than 40 years with some breaks. I have

been living here. Yeah. And were you born and raised there? No, no,

no. I was born in Nuremberg, raised in another part of Germany,

and then moved to Munich when I was, I think,

14, 15. My family

thought it's good to be in a big city for the 3 girls we were,

we are. So yes,

it was exciting then to be here. It was just when the

Olympic Games started in Munich. At that

time we moved. So it was really exciting for the bad

and the good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. All what happened in

1972. Yeah. The hostages and—

Yeah. Yeah. So it was an exciting start. Yeah. That's

historical moment. Historical. Yes. Yeah. For

folks that have not been to Munich, what are some of the

highlights? Well, I really like the

old part. So the beautiful Nymphenburg Castle

in the middle of the city, the summer castle actually

of the king. But I also like the opera in

the middle of Munich. And I'm a fan of the

English Garden. I lived as a student very close to the English

Garden. That's the green lung of Munich.

Yeah. And I did my walks with my dog and biked

through the university. So it was a

nice experience being a student in Munich. I studied

at the Ludwig Maximilians University. Okay.

And how was life growing up in Munich? That was good. Did you live in

more of a city proper or were you in more rural

area? No, really at the, yeah, at the

city, not center, but a

little bit of, of in the western part, outskirts,

10 minutes to downtown. So, okay, that was

really convenient. Yeah. And the

family had a flat. What was your experience growing up

in terms of, uh, when you— when I grew up in New York, I was

born in El Salvador and I think it was the '80s,

so there was a lot of packaged foods. I don't think there was a lot

of information available. We seem to have lost our connection

to real food and farms and nature. And I'm

wondering what your experience was like growing up. Yeah,

but we moved from a rural area where we had the

farm across our house, where I could see the cows

on the meadows, buying the milk there just across

the little street that was in that, yeah,

it was a big village actually with schools and

shops and, but with farms around

directly. So, and the hens, so the eggs I

just got to my neighbors and we bought them fresh there.

And the same with the meat and the milk. So I

had that very direct connection with where

food is really coming from and that

experience. And I loved it. I loved the cows.

I mean, every day I walked there and really felt

close. I felt to be in a good place in that age between

9 and 14 in the rural areas.

And I always missed it. I never needed a big city,

but I still live in a big city. It's a bit

of a contradiction maybe. In my older age, I definitely want to

be on the countryside again, although I'm 66 already.

Talk a little bit about what your plans were. I know we may be

going a bit far back, but as you were finishing

university and entering the, you know, what we call here the

9-to-5 life, you know, what were your aspirations? You know, what type of work were

you aspiring to do? What kind of projects were you excited about?

Definitely never a 9-to-5 job. My father was an

entrepreneur, so I grew up with that spirit to be

independent and work in the

framework that is set by myself and not by somebody

else. And I could never imagine myself in an office

job from 9 to 5. Somebody else gives me some papers and I

had to finish tasks. So that was not on my

list, no. And in my studies, you know, I

studied Chinese, so Sinology, philosophy, and political

science. So the early aspiration was

changing the world to a better world and

impacting the world and understanding the world a

little bit better. So I traveled, I

went to Asia, I studied in Taiwan and

worked then in China. So no,

not a 9-to-5 something for me. And I always

had so much pleasure, satisfaction

creating something new. For me, it's creating a new

company, creating a new organization, not work.

It's the pleasure, it's the satisfaction, what

I get my energy from. And I did that from the

very beginning. Only when I really had to earn money,

that was always the, let's say,

the less satisfactory part, I choose to

be in a regular job. But even in that

business career, founding my own computer company

representing Acer, that was very, very

new when I was studying in Taiwan.

started a trade office for my father there

besides studying and teaching. I never could imagine

myself being from my age,

25, finishing my master's and then the rest of

my life in one job. So I really have

experience in many fields in creating. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm wondering where the interest in Chinese medicine— I'm

fairly spiritual person and I love alternative medicine and

I've, I've looked in and, and read about everything about holistic

medicine and naturopaths. So it's not an area that's foreign to me.

I'm just curious when that interest started for you.

Already in school, I was interested in, in China.

And as soon as I went to

China to really understand the culture better,

In university, you cannot learn something about people and a

country really. So that was in the

late '70s. And I decided to

either give up learning Chinese or to go to the country.

And the mainland was not open. And I was very

interested in Mao Zedong's ideas, changing the

society. Very leftist

thinking that that could be really the change

for society. It was not. I had to learn

that the tough way. But that was really then

the reason when I was in Taiwan, I met a Chinese, traditional

Chinese doctor who took me on

his visits to patients and gave

me the first introduction on what acupuncture, what

herbal medicine can do. And that impressed me deeply

what I saw. How he could help people, poor

people. I mean, they didn't pay him. We went in the

night on trains across Taiwan

to go to really serious sick people. And

he was a dedicated— I mean, that is really the idea of a

traditional doctor. You cure before

people get really sick, or that is what you have to

do, the prevention of Of sickness. And

then it started my interest and it's still

there. And then you returned to Germany and you began,

you started your own practice and you started developing centers in

Germany. Later, later, later on. No, in

between I had that very technical background from my

father's business and buying

semiconductors in Asia. So I was always

very close to technology and

socialized by technology is something really good.

So I came into that early stage of computer

development in Taiwan where they did the first IBM

clones. Wow. And so I had

that contact through my father's office and

Siemens and really big companies. And when I

returned to Germany, I represented that first

computer company importing personal computers to

Germany. So that was in between. And then I got

really, let's say, fed up with pressing

the last penny out of the suppliers and

negotiating good deals for only

one part, and that was the Western companies and not

the local people in the, yeah, in the really

dirty backyard of production at that time

in the '80s. It was— So I didn't want to go

ahead with it anymore. And that is when I started the

Asia Network Information Center, still connected to

an online platform for information on

Asia, but much more in the direction of

development work, what I did later then in China for the

Konrad Adenauer Foundation. It must have been exciting

because, I mean, '80s, for personal computers. I mean, it's

really, really— it was super early days. It's almost like the

internet in like late '90s, you know, just to be experiencing

that and to be one of the first companies to have that connection

to create those clones. And so it's fascinating for me

that you had the interest and the passion for Chinese

medicine while at the same time this other

passion for technology, which sometimes they, they don't mix.

And so it seems to be— not to use a cliché term, but the

yin and yang for you is the mix of the, you know,

it's interesting. Yeah. And now with vertical

farming, all of that comes together for me.

Technology, but also biology. The

marriage of these 2 so

important developments in our history,

I think, are a really decisive transformation for

us. Machines and us. I mean

us, I mean life. And that is really a

very, very exciting topic in time. And we

have now, we are at the moment, I mean, we

need to combine that to find

solutions for the future. It's really something.

It's not frightening me if we are very aware of what we are

doing. But we need these tools, we need

technology. I don't have any problem

with that. I was the first person in

the EU Commission for Asia

Consulting who had an email address.

None of my older colleagues, I mean, even didn't

know about that. But that was I mean, that

we cannot— I mean, you cannot probably imagine how that

is. When I studied in Taiwan, I had to wait

6 weeks for a letter from my parents, and

they had to wait. And we had to go

downtown to have a prepaid call,

which we could only afford once a month because it was— now I take

my handy, my mobile phone, and— or send a WhatsApp.

It's total— times really have dramatically

changed and for the good. Yeah, for the good, I think.

I mean, just this conversation that we're having now, for the benefit of the listener,

we're using a tool called SquadCast and we're able to have a video

conversation over the internet. And the quality is going to be good

as well because this technology captures the audio locally. So it's

going to sound good. So, which is fascinating. And I think I've always been a

fan of technology as well. And I'm wondering, you mentioned

and introduced the work with vertical farming. So it looks like you

started the organization around 2013. So what I'm

curious about is what was, where were you at that point in your

career and how did the idea, the concept of

vertical farming, indoor farming, like how did you start to become aware of it?

Very simple. My son brought it into my life or

in our life, family life. He went to Zealand for

finding out what his purpose in life, worked there for Greenpeace

and traveled and so on. And he wrote

shortly before he came, I found what I want to do and that is vertical

farming. Never heard it. That was 2012. I never

heard about that. And said, okay, okay, give

me some more information. So vertical farm, the book of

Dickson Despommiers, he read and he

immediately contacted him and then they exchanged and

We met then on his way back to Germany. I said, before

you come back to Germany after a year, let us meet and

talk in Asia. I mean, we have been in

China. He has been as a young boy in China with me, with the

family. So he was very close. So we met in Burma,

in Myanmar, to talk about the future.

And then I got really interested and said,

okay, I read, I and said, I totally understand you.

That's something I can connect to. It's really answering

a lot of challenges and it is

a part of the solution probably. But then

that was so early that hardly anybody has heard

about it except that very small community. And then,

yeah, the idea came up and I said, okay, I

interest, very interested. And that is, I was an EU

fundraiser at that time, but that was a

bread shop just, and not really something with

passion for me. And so I said, okay, I know

how to start organizations, startups, and

I've done that before several times. I help you set up

that organization. But from the beginning was international.

Because of my network, but also

because we immediately understood that is an

international, a global topic and global

challenges we have to answer. And here we were.

And that's how it started. 7 people, a handful of people

who said, okay, that's what we are going to do.

We will build up the biggest nonprofit organization

And I said my condition is to be nonprofit

because I don't want to be in business, to have a

startup or yeah, to raise awareness and understanding

for the topic. That's how it started. Yeah. So talk to me

about the early days and what was— you

had the idea for creating the organization and what was the

intention given your experiences? Obviously everything we've just talked

about. that led you up until this point. What was

the plan like? Who was the outreach going to be? And what was— I'm just

curious about— I'm always fascinated by origin stories, so I'm curious about those

early days. How were you thinking about organizing

the, the structure of the organization itself? And then what was, what was the

mandate? You know, what, what were you looking to do and what were you looking

to accomplish? So the mandate clearly was to

raise awareness and build a network, a collaboration and

cooperation platform that the few

people, the few companies, the few institutions

who were active in that field at that time have a

place together to exchange and to

grow from there organically, like a cell, you know,

biology. So life. That is exactly.

And I really thought, or we were persuaded,

once you do something at the right time,

it will grow organically and by itself. We didn't

have a penny, just, I mean, the little money we

started, I think, with €500 or something.

And that was not a concern at all. It was not

about how much money do we need, do we make a

business plan. No, it was really, we know it's right, we

know it we need to do that and it

will be successful and working. And what we

needed was a computer, a telephone, and a desk.

And I had that office, so that was

not an investment. And time and dedication. And all

of the people who were there at that very beginning

were dedicated. Nobody asked, okay, how

many hours do I have to work? And— And do I

get a paycheck? No, it was pro bono and voluntary.

And it worked. I mean, I called universities,

said, okay, this is who we are, this is our mission,

and are you in? And people said, yes, yes,

yes, sure. I mean, I didn't call

Siemens in the beginning. I called people and

organizations who had been in that field.

Like it was the university Max, my

son, was studying. Haas University was one of

the, or is still the leading one in that field

with Wageningen University. Wageningen at that time was

very critical about vertical farming. And

Columbia University was Dickson Despommier. He supported us.

And a university here in Stuttgart, Hohenheim. the

German Aerospace Institute, and they gathered

and it grew. What were some of the challenges in those early

days? To explain what vertical farming is.

It's still the challenge. Yeah. People had

no clue. If at that time when you did a

Google search, you got maybe 7 hits, now you

get 70 million probably. It was

unbelievable. When we looked for the right name,

Association for Vertical Farming, I mean, after nights of

brainstorming with a good glass of red wine or white wine,

that name came up. It was not clear from the

beginning how we should name ourselves.

People had not heard about vertical farming.

What is that? No idea. So that is

less the challenge, but it's still the challenge to

explain what are the benefits, why do

we need it. The questions are still the same.

Why don't we just use sun and soil? And

now with climate change and COVID, I

think that really helped a lot in these

past 2 years. Thank you for that. You're

welcome. Yeah, unfortunately. What was your role

early on and how has that changed to where the

role you serve now at present day? In the

beginning, as a newcomer into that

field with a very different

background from philosophy and political science

and not agriculture, I really played the

role for the organizational setup,

for the legal and administrative things.

The real, let's say, the people in front

contacting and representing, knowing much

more than me about it, was not me. So I was

really more in the back than I am now.

That totally changed. But I really had to

grow into that role and into the— and

also into the field to really understand. Now

I've traveled nearly all over the world and I've seen

so many vertical farms. I've met so many people

and talked to them that my understanding, my picture is

completely different than 2013.

Can you talk a little bit about your experience as

you were learning more about the industry, as more companies were coming to the space?

And probably just maybe, you know, when you think about starting in

2013 and think about how much investment money has

been coming into the space, venture capital money, in the, you know, past, in,

you know, 2 or 3 years, and the scale and the size of

the projects, you know, when you look at the AeroFarms and the Bowerys

and the Plenties and, you know, that the scale at which these

organizations are operating is having a big impact.

And obviously they're getting a lot of attention and they're getting

a lot of publicity and exposure, which is good overall for the industry.

And so I've just been wondering what your take on it is

as you start to meet and have conversations with the CEOs of all these

companies and where you think

the organization, the association can play a role, and if

there's any ideas or requests for

partnerships with these types of organizations that you think would be helpful.

Yeah, let me put it like that. The

need for cooperation and collaboration is still

immensely— the hide-up of data, of

sharing, of being willing to

really exchange is still very

limited. And 2 years ago, I would have said

we are in a nascent state of development in that

vertical farming industry. The part

of the production is maybe

0.01% of all

the agricultural output. So it's still tiny.

It's insignificant. So we would

need more cooperation, that vertical farms and

vertical farm produce is more accepted, more

widely implemented. And I still miss

that. I still miss it, especially from the big

AeroFarms, Plenty, Bowery. They

could collaborate, they could be more open,

and that would really help the whole industry. And

especially under the circumstances that climate change

is pressing, that the planet is really on

the brink and we would need to implement

vertical farming widely and not just having

a big farm here and there. None of the big players who

have announced since years to have

100 vertical farms here and 50 here did it

and couldn't do it. And I totally understand for

many reasons, for the investment, but also for the technology.

The technology was not mature enough

to really being able to

expand in the way they wanted it or they planned it

or they announced it. They often announce it much too early

instead of waiting till they're really able to do it. And then

expectations are high, and then the

disappointments are high, and the trust is going down.

So all of that is not really

considered enough, and that is why an association

like the AVF is so important. We are unbiased.

People, especially politicians, want from us

unbiased, true data and

information. They don't want to have the marketing stuff

from the companies. So that is an

important role the IVF needs and plays

in the industry. And as

I said, collaboration and

exchange is so much needed because we

don't have the time to wait. The time is running, the clock is

running. If we do not act now,

politics is not ready to really move forward.

It is the industry that has to do it. And

collaboration would help a lot. Can you talk a little bit

about the companies that have partnered with

ABF or the relationships you've built with companies in this space

and give a couple of examples of how that has been a

successful partnership and what's been the benefit for AVF

in terms of working with these companies? Yeah, the

visibility, I think, is one of the major

benefits AVF members have, and that is what the

feedback is, um, to be seen

as a player, what they do and how they

act and what they can offer. That is what we can

enable, I think, with either our conferences,

our webinars, or just connecting members

with each other. And that has been growing

in the last 3 years substantially. This is

probably also the reason why we are

growing so much, because people or

companies see that benefit. And that is what they

appreciate and what they need to,

to have. No, I was going to ask if you could explain

for listeners that are new to

the— or hearing about the organization, a little bit

about the roadmap and the plans that you have for the growth of

AVF and how to deepen those relationships with

these companies. Yeah. I mean, our big plan,

we have worked on that now for a year, is a certification,

a CE certification sustainability produce.

So we have developed with industry

players across the globe to develop

criteria for a label for the produce of

vertical farming. So consumers can easily

see, okay, how sustainably that

produce has been produced in a vertical farm, where it

has been produced, how much water was used, how much

electricity, and, and, and. And that will come

into public, or we will go public with it in

March already. And then farms can be

certified. And I think that will help a

lot for transparency.

And also visibility again. That is one of our

major projects for this year. But the other

big thing for us is Vertifarm, the

first vertical farming trade show in September

this year with Messe Dortmund. So to

really help the industry grow and be seen as

a significant industry in the world, we

needed a trade show of our own. Not being part of a

horticulture show or being part of

fruit and product show, but really having

a vertical farming and new food systems trade show.

And we will run and organize the complete

content, the program around and within

Vertifarm. That is, in my understanding,

and also we consulted and talked a lot with members and

non-members, are we ready for that?

And it's a bit risky, yes, but we have always

been the organization to be first runners. So let's take a

little risk. And we found with Borussia Dortmund

an ideal partner who was willing to really put also a

lot of money into it. To go for it. And I

really think it's the right time, 2022, to

start with it on a yearly basis to get the

vertical farming industry its own show. I'm

sure it will be a success because sitting

really in person again and not hybrid and

not online, sitting with

people and partners and discussing projects and

exchanging and seeing is really

super beneficial and so much needed, especially

after this third year in COVID. And

end of September, I'm very sure, like

last year we did the 5th AVF Summit in Munich

with the support of the Bavarian government. Also, that was a big

step for us that the traditional agricultural

government was showing clearly, okay, that

is an important topic for us. Um, September will

be for sure possible, COVID

Omicron, or whatever we have, that people can meet in

person. So these are— yeah. Yeah,

I think people are— yeah, I think people are learning, and it's happening here

in the States, that I think we are learning how to live

with COVID and the variants. And I think we all realize

that we can't let it dictate our lives forever because we

can't be indoors forever. And I think it's important to

find a way to just, you know, understand the importance of taking care of our

own health, but also maintaining our own sovereignty and our

ability to make, you know, the decisions we feel are right for ourselves. And so

I think more and more people are opening up to that. So I'm wondering, is

that event going to be in Germany, in Munich? No, not in Munich,

in Dortmund. Then we are closer to the

Benelux and Netherlands, more in the center of Germany.

So it's northwest Dortmund near Cologne,

and they have a new exhibition, beautiful exhibition area.

Yeah, I think it's a very good location, and

it's the most 20 million people living

around that area. So just that makes it

really interesting. There's been a couple of smaller events, and I'm going to be

attending one in Las Vegas called Indoor AgCon,

indoor.ag. And so I've been working with the, the team there. They've been

sponsors of the show, so I'm grateful to that. So I think they're partnering with

the horticulture event as well. So, and it's a couple of days,

so that, that'll be my first vertical farming conference. But

definitely keep us up to date on

your conference in September as you get more information, because I'd be happy

to promote it as well. Oh, wonderful. Yeah,

you're more than welcome to come. How about that?

I've never been to that part of the world. Oh,

really? Okay. Yeah. So it's time to travel.

Yeah. Is information about the conference on the website yet?

Yes, yeah, we have our own website. The

Vertifarm website is on.

Oh yes, and I, I don't want to forget, in May in

Bangkok, HortiAsia, we will run a

conference program and a vertical farming pavilion at

HortiAsia. It is one of the biggest or the

biggest Asian events, and especially now as

we can't really enter China,

where— I mean, China is a very big and important market,

but it's so difficult. So Bangkok for us is a, is a very

good balancing event for us. A

lot of Asian players will go there, and Thailand

is opening up to, to vertical farming a lot, and Singapore

is closed. So I think also be in that

region for ABF, it, it is very important.

Yeah, so I have the website and we'll provide all the links in the show

notes for this episode, but it's vertifarm.de for the

location for the website. Yes. And if— are you looking for

sponsors? Are you looking for getting the word out about companies to attend?

Absolutely, yes. I mean, we're especially

looking forward to have Um, US companies there,

Asian companies. I think we will have companies from

Africa and South America attending,

and Europe will be very much present. A lot of quite

exciting things in the vertical farming world will

be published in the coming 3 to 4 months. Can't

talk about it now, but you will see some really

big news and surprises here in Europe. So that's

one reason also to show the world that

Europe is really active in that field and capable

of new technologies and interesting new developments.

Robotics and machine learning is

so important in vertical farming. But

still, we have to find a good balance between

automation and technology and having

also systems that are locally— because we are doing a

project in Africa that is really important for my heart,

that agroforestry, regenerative agriculture, and

vertical farming can be a wonderful

match to food security,

renaturing, and helping really the local

people on another level probably than

we do it here at the moment to go into that new field of

farming, to have innovation. Yeah, it's interesting,

this concept of reforestation and marrying it with, you

know, the intent and the

efforts that are happening now in the world of vertical farming.

And it makes sense because I'm familiar with, with that movement

and as well. My partner is really passionate about nature and trees. And I don't

know if you've seen a Netflix documentary called Call of the

Forest, which is about the importance of reforestation. Oh,

wonderful. It's really good as well. Yeah. You know, my

Chinese sign is wood. So I

really feel connected to trees and to nature.

As I said, technology is important, an important tool, but

Please never forget that we are part of nature and

that vertical farming can play a role

freeing land, giving back to nature and not

using more and more land. That is how my understanding is.

And that is what we want to try now in a first project in

Uganda and Cameroon. And I'm very

passionate about it. We would need donations for that, for example.

That would be wonderful. So many

projects and opportunities, and obviously, you know, they all need funding and they all

need prioritization. So I'm wondering, as you think about the

challenges you have coming up in getting awareness for AVF

and in growing the organization, is there an ask that you

have of this audience specifically? My

most, I mean, What I always try

to communicate is that we have to

use technology wisely. It's not just there

to implement something new we have

developed. It has to make sense and has to be

reasonable and useful in the sense that

it has a purpose for the betterment

of life of the people. And I think

that is an important message I would like to

tell the audience. But also, please, I mean,

don't compete when there is no

need for competition and closing up.

Share what you can share. And that is also,

I think, a very important need of our

times. Yeah, I think it's been really important because I

naturally, as I speak to companies on this podcast, a lot of them, you know,

do similar things. But the constant thread through these

conversations has been that this is a pressing need and we need

as many people working on this project and working on this

effort as possible. And so there really, as much as there is a bit of

competition in the space, to the extent that we can find ways to work together,

and I think the work that you're doing with the AVF helps to be that

bridge, maybe that neutral bridge, you know, that Switzerland

but in Germany, just that neutral place for companies to

come together to find ways to collaborate. Yes, and

the last 2 years I saw that more and more,

especially last year. I really

appreciate it, and then that gives me a lot of energy for my

work when I see I see that industry players,

big ones, are also coming in and understand that they

need collaboration and they want it. And that is

really, I think, a change. I see that

change coming now. And all of

the players who are not willing to

share and cooperate will be left out. the end.

It's really, how do you say in English, a call

of the time, or how do you

say, how do you, do you know what I mean? Yeah,

I mean, it's almost like a call to action. A

call to action, right. Thanks. Yeah, that it is.

Yeah. And I see more companies

gathering in the AVF having that mindset. And

that's very nice to see. That's a good

development. And then I invite everybody to

come and be part of that.

And so when organizations or individuals— I see that you have different

price points for people. So even if you're one person or all the way

up to multinational corporations, they can join at different levels.

And then I imagine there's different benefits for the different levels that you

join, but essentially once you join, you become part of this community and begin

to have conversations within the community as well. Yes. I mean,

for the companies, there are definitely more benefits because

they get reductions in prices for tickets and

speaking positions and, and all of that. That's for

an individual, maybe not that so important, but any

individual who is supporting us is part of the

community and can reach out to

everybody. And I think that is also for the

startups, that is what they mostly give us as

feedback. For them to connect and be seen

from the bigger players and to hook up with them

is a golden opportunity. But

that is also something the bigger players appreciate.

That they see, okay, I have a very,

very high level of knowledge

here where I can

have a cooperation or even

being partnering with them for a project, or

they need robotics in inner systems. Why do you

need to develop it by yourself? if you have

already a pretty perfect startup who has

focused on that. And that is, I think this is

what more and more people see. So I think that's

very admirable vision. And so we'll make sure we have links to all of

those. It's vertical-farming.net to learn more.

And I'll have links for people to join and sign up. And I

encourage our listeners, because anyone who's listening to this show is someone who's interested in

this space. And I would imagine you'd find a, a level that you

can join on and to support that work that, uh, Christine and the team is

doing. I want to thank you for coming on the show. I really enjoyed our

conversation. And, and I, I think I've heard about the organization as I started the

podcast, as I was doing my research probably a couple of years ago. So

I'm very happy that we finally were able to, to connect and to hear your

story. And, and I think your, your background, your history, your

interests It's very fascinating to see how all those things have come

together for you to have this as your mission now,

the AVF. And I think what you're doing is really

positive work for the industry, so I applaud you for that. Thank you so

much, Harry. It was very enjoyable

to talk to you. Yeah, thanks a lot. And so the best

place for folks to learn more is at the website. Is there any other contact

information wanted to provide? Write to me. Send me

an email,

czl@verticalfarming-net,

and then, yeah, I'll answer. Okay,

sounds good. We'll make sure we have that contact information available as well.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your story with my audience, Christine.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Thanks again to

Cultivated for being a fantastic sponsor. If you're looking into a vertical

farm and don't know where to start or which technology would suit your needs, make

sure you reach out to them today. The best part about it is that their

service is free, and it's because they work on behalf of their partners. So

head on over to cultivated.com, just leave off the last E.

That's C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com.

Special thanks to Christine for coming on the show. She had been someone

I've been targeting targeting to have on, as she has a rich

variety and breadth and width of experience in

the industry. So it was really helpful to hear her perspective on everything

that's been happening. Don't forget, if you're going to be at Indoor AgCon,

indoor.ag is the website. I will plan to be there.

It's the end of February, and you can save an additional 25% off

registration with our promo code VFP0D.

Podcast production marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn more at

fullcast.co. As a reminder, if you're enjoying this show,

please leave us a rating and a review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp,

and we'll be sure to read those out on future episodes. Thanks for all you

do to support the show. Don't forget to check out verticalfarmingjobs.com,

which we just launched as well. Getting some good feedback from the industry

there. As always, And as always, here's to your health.

Thanks for listening. To read the full show notes for this episode, which

includes any links mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show

transcription, visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

There you can sign up for our email list to be notified when new

episodes are published.

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