☕️ Say thanks with a cup of coffee 😁

In this episode of Talk With History, hosts Scott and Jenn explore the remarkable life and enduring legacy of Harriet Tubman, the celebrated conductor of the Underground Railroad. They discuss their visit to the Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad National Historic Park in Dorchester County, Maryland, which includes stops at Tubman's birthplace, the Visitor Center with its enlightening exhibits and artifacts, and other significant locations tied to Tubman's life.

The episode delves into Tubman's early years, her brave actions leading others to freedom through the Underground Railroad, and her significant contributions during the Civil War as a spy, nurse, and leader. The hosts also highlight Tubman's deep religious faith, her injuries and the resulting visions that inspired her, and her later life activities, including her involvement in the suffrage movement. This episode aims to inspire listeners with Tubman's courage, resilience, and dedication to freedom and justice.

🚕 Google Maps to Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad Historical Park

📍 Site of Harriet Tubman's childhood home (Brodess farm) and Historical Marker

🎥 Video from Harriet Tubman Museum and Birthplace

0:00 Harriet Tubman

00:13 Welcome to Talk With History

00:40 Diving Into Harriet Tubman's Legacy

01:47 Exploring the Underground Railroad and Tubman's Early Life

05:14 The Significance of Family and Freedom in Tubman's Life

08:46 Born 1822

17:15 Harriet Leaves

18:55 Understanding the Underground Railroad

26:24 Harriet Tubman: A Renaissance Woman

28:01 Harriet Tubman's Impact on History

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📧 contact: talkwithhistory@gmail.com

Scott: 00:00:14

Welcome to Talk With History.

Scott: 00:00:17

I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

Jenn: 00:00:20

Hello.

Scott: 00:00:21

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world

Scott: 00:00:24

travels, YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper

Scott: 00:00:28

conversations with the curious, the explorers, and the history Today's

Scott: 00:00:40

episode is a special We're taking a deep dive into the life and legacy

Scott: 00:00:45

of Harriet Tubman, the iconic conductor of the Underground Railroad.

Scott: 00:00:51

We're

Scott: 00:00:51

heading straight to the source.

Scott: 00:00:53

We recently traveled to Dorchester County, Maryland, to visit the Harriet

Scott: 00:00:57

Tubman Underground Railroad National Historic Park, including the very spot

Scott: 00:01:01

where Harriet was born into slavery.

Scott: 00:01:05

In this episode, we'll explore her early years, the daring escapes that she led,

Scott: 00:01:10

and the network of brave individuals who risked everything to fight for freedom.

Scott: 00:01:15

We'll also take a virtual tour of the Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad

Scott: 00:01:19

Visitor Center, where powerful exhibits and artifacts shed new

Scott: 00:01:23

light on her incredible journey.

Scott: 00:01:25

So whether you're already familiar with Harriet Tubman or just

Scott: 00:01:28

learning about her for the first time, this episode is for you.

Scott: 00:01:31

Get ready to be inspired by the courage, resilience, and resolution

Scott: 00:01:36

of the Moses of her people.

Scott: 00:01:47

All right, Jen.

Scott: 00:01:48

so we didn't even realize it, but we visited The Harriet Tubman

Scott: 00:01:53

Underground Railroad Center.

Scott: 00:01:54

Visitor Center, the like on the, the anniversary of her death.

Scott: 00:01:59

March

Scott: 00:01:59

10th.

Jenn: 00:02:00

Yeah, we saw all these signs

Scott: 00:02:02

day.

Scott: 00:02:02

Yeah.

Scott: 00:02:03

Like we saw all these signs as we were driving up, we're like, oh no.

Scott: 00:02:06

Did we unintentionally come and visit like on a super busy day?

Scott: 00:02:10

And it was, we were actually there the day

Jenn: 00:02:11

day after.

Jenn: 00:02:15

day before Harriet Tubman

Scott: 00:02:16

like a Saturday,

Jenn: 00:02:17

which was a Saturday to commemorate her new stamp because there's a new

Jenn: 00:02:20

stamp coming out with her image on it.

Jenn: 00:02:22

And so we got there on a Sunday and we were lucky.

Jenn: 00:02:26

And so we got there on Harriet Tubman Day, which is the day she died.

Jenn: 00:02:30

And what's interesting about that is the day she died.

Jenn: 00:02:36

Quite possibly might be the day she was

Scott: 00:02:39

That was, that was very interesting.

Jenn: 00:02:41

So she dies March 10th, 1913, and she's born circa 1922.

Jenn: 00:02:47

And some researchers in the past, I'd say 10, 15 years found a ledger where

Jenn: 00:02:54

her enslaver had paid a midwife for the birth of a child from her mother.

Jenn: 00:03:01

And it was dated like March 15th.

Jenn: 00:03:05

And so people believe that she might have been born.

Jenn: 00:03:09

March

Scott: 00:03:09

Right around that

Jenn: 00:03:10

Wait, because he might've paid, probably paid her five days after.

Jenn: 00:03:13

So yeah, it's a, it's amazing.

Jenn: 00:03:15

That would be her 90th, her 91st birthday if she would've died right

Scott: 00:03:21

pretty incredible.

Scott: 00:03:22

Now, we went up there to make a video for us from Norfolk.

Scott: 00:03:25

It was about three and a half hours, but we got to drive up the eastern shore

Jenn: 00:03:30

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:03:30

So what's so, what's so unique about the area is this very waterway intense area.

Scott: 00:03:36

It's a beautiful

Jenn: 00:03:37

It's beautiful, but because of driving it doesn't

Jenn: 00:03:40

make it easy to drive and.

Jenn: 00:03:42

It's outside of Annapolis.

Jenn: 00:03:44

It's outside of DC.

Jenn: 00:03:46

It's on the other side of Maryland in that kind of watery island ish

Jenn: 00:03:52

looking part of the state where you're kind of like, what's over there?

Jenn: 00:03:56

And that is where she was born.

Jenn: 00:03:58

That's where she escapes enslavement for the first time.

Jenn: 00:04:01

That's where she goes back and rescues her family, and she understands that

Jenn: 00:04:06

waterway area so well, having been raised there, that she's very good

Jenn: 00:04:11

about navigating that and getting people out of enslavement through

Scott: 00:04:14

And I can see.

Scott: 00:04:15

In an area like that, the eastern shore of Maryland that has so many water

Scott: 00:04:20

inlets and it would, if you wouldn't, if you didn't know your way around

Scott: 00:04:24

there, you could get lost and have to double back and triple back and do,

Scott: 00:04:28

it would take you extra time just to travel from one location to another.

Scott: 00:04:32

If you were going to try to travel from, let's say Washington DC to somewhere

Scott: 00:04:35

on the eastern shore of Maryland.

Scott: 00:04:38

If you didn't know the way, or if you weren't, if you weren't

Scott: 00:04:40

traveling on one of the main roads, it would be incredibly difficult.

Jenn: 00:04:44

Oh, absolutely.

Jenn: 00:04:45

When you think of, let's for example, let's use John Wilkes Booth, when

Jenn: 00:04:47

he tries to escape and go just great across the waterway from

Jenn: 00:04:51

Maryland to Virginia, he doesn't.

Jenn: 00:04:54

They get lost in a waterway and just go westward back into Maryland.

Jenn: 00:04:59

They don't even cross into Virginia because they don't

Jenn: 00:05:01

understand the waterways there.

Jenn: 00:05:03

And a lot of those waterways where Harriet Tubman was born were

Jenn: 00:05:07

actually dug and made by enslaved

Scott: 00:05:10

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Jenn: 00:05:10

So her people made them.

Jenn: 00:05:12

And I talk about this as well.

Jenn: 00:05:14

Her father lived on a different plantation than her mother.

Jenn: 00:05:17

And a lot of their family was sold into different families, enslaving

Jenn: 00:05:23

families in the area, but they were allowed to visit each other.

Jenn: 00:05:27

And she became very well known.

Jenn: 00:05:30

Acquainted with the topography of the area and the waterways are there

Jenn: 00:05:34

because of that from a very young

Scott: 00:05:36

Now, that was one question I had in my, in my head

Scott: 00:05:40

when I was making the video.

Scott: 00:05:41

Was that kind of the norm of the time for enslavers to allow their

Scott: 00:05:46

enslaved to travel to go visit family?

Scott: 00:05:49

Or was it more like they were traveling with, the master of the household for

Scott: 00:05:53

business purposes, and that just, they happened to go get to see their families?

Jenn: 00:06:06

it depends, right?

Jenn: 00:06:07

Depends on how close the enslaver, the overseer holds tight to their people,

Jenn: 00:06:15

What kind of happens and what I've learned doing my research

Jenn: 00:06:17

is a lot of enslaved are Yeah.

Jenn: 00:06:19

sold out to other plantations, especially during working season, because you

Jenn: 00:06:24

need more of the hands than you actually have to do certain things.

Jenn: 00:06:27

So you help each other out.

Jenn: 00:06:29

And my slaves will come.

Jenn: 00:06:32

Plant your land and then your slaves come plant my land and those slaves will

Scott: 00:06:35

So that's a little bit of how that

Jenn: 00:06:37

So that's more how that worked.

Jenn: 00:06:39

Plus what I've also seen is on when crops weren't in the ground and you

Jenn: 00:06:46

could get a certificate of travel.

Jenn: 00:06:49

Remember that happened with that lynching site that I investigated?

Jenn: 00:06:53

That was during January because there would be no

Jenn: 00:06:56

crops in the ground wintertime.

Jenn: 00:06:57

So sometimes you might get a travel certificate to go see

Jenn: 00:07:02

your family if it was close by.

Jenn: 00:07:04

And sometimes enslavers did that because it kept you satisfied.

Jenn: 00:07:08

It kept you staying in your confinement.

Jenn: 00:07:11

It kept you, not trying to run away.

Jenn: 00:07:13

Plus family also tethers you.

Jenn: 00:07:16

to the area.

Jenn: 00:07:17

And if you do have people who run away, they're running away

Jenn: 00:07:21

from more than just enslavement.

Jenn: 00:07:22

They would be running away from their family.

Jenn: 00:07:24

And so to keep family and to keep a tie to your family there

Jenn: 00:07:29

is also, benefits the enslaver.

Jenn: 00:07:32

So to help do, facilitate seeing your family helps keep

Jenn: 00:07:37

people in that lifestyle.

Scott: 00:07:39

Yeah, and again, I just thought that was so interesting that Harriet

Scott: 00:07:42

Tubman being allowed to, to travel and to see, to know that area of

Scott: 00:07:47

Maryland so well, the Eastern shore,

Scott: 00:07:50

that is essentially what gave her the, some of the skills

Scott: 00:07:53

that she needed later on.

Jenn: 00:07:55

skills she needed later on.

Jenn: 00:08:00

checking traps

Jenn: 00:08:03

along the shoreline for this certain type of like a, like a mink rat and its fur was

Jenn: 00:08:10

better in the winter, winter fur, right?

Jenn: 00:08:13

And so as a young girl, she could get into these waterways and check these

Jenn: 00:08:17

traps for the fur traders, and it was very hard labor for a child, but because she's

Jenn: 00:08:23

enslaved they use her labor to do that.

Jenn: 00:08:25

So it's another way that she gained an understanding of all of these

Jenn: 00:08:30

waterways because she's checking these traps as a young girl.

Jenn: 00:08:33

So it, Again, one of these horrible things that she has to do as a young child

Jenn: 00:08:41

being enslaved, but will benefit her as a conductor on the Underground Railroad.

Scott: 00:08:46

Yeah.

Scott: 00:08:47

So now let's, let's step back a little bit.

Scott: 00:08:49

We we, we jumped in there because she's such an interesting character and she's

Scott: 00:08:52

done some incredible, incredible things.

Scott: 00:08:54

But, so she was born in, you said 1822.

Jenn: 00:09:01

1822, she's

Jenn: 00:09:02

born

Jenn: 00:09:02

Araminta, Araminta Ross.

Scott: 00:09:05

they called her

Scott: 00:09:06

Minty.

Scott: 00:09:06

They

Jenn: 00:09:06

call her Minty as she names herself Harriet Tubman.

Jenn: 00:09:10

That's the name she wants to give herself because she

Jenn: 00:09:12

doesn't want her enslaved name.

Jenn: 00:09:15

And she's born to enslaved parents, her mother, Harriet, who they

Jenn: 00:09:18

call Rit Green and Ben Ross.

Jenn: 00:09:20

And Rit was enslaved by the Brodess family.

Jenn: 00:09:23

And later her son, Edward.

Jenn: 00:09:25

That's where the marker is.

Jenn: 00:09:27

That's where we stop.

Jenn: 00:09:28

That's where they say is the birthplace of Harriet Tubman.

Jenn: 00:09:30

She's not quite born there.

Jenn: 00:09:32

She's born more when you go to the business center and you cross

Jenn: 00:09:35

the bridge to go see the marker.

Jenn: 00:09:37

She's born more where that bridge area is where the waterway is.

Jenn: 00:09:40

But that's where her marker is.

Jenn: 00:09:42

Harriet Tubman thought her birth year was 1825 and her death certificate.

Jenn: 00:09:48

It lists 1815 her gravestone lists 1820, but again,

Jenn: 00:09:55

historians have found 1822 in the

Scott: 00:09:58

the record

Jenn: 00:09:59

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:09:59

In the record.

Jenn: 00:10:00

That was found, in 2004.

Jenn: 00:10:02

The visitor center is amazing.

Jenn: 00:10:04

It's free.

Jenn: 00:10:05

It's run by the National Park Service.

Jenn: 00:10:07

We had got there in On a Sunday in March, which is Women's History Month.

Jenn: 00:10:12

So it was great to go there at that time But I just want people

Jenn: 00:10:15

to know it's closed on Mondays.

Scott: 00:10:17

So it's only

Jenn: 00:10:18

So it's only open Tuesday through Sunday So if you're listening

Jenn: 00:10:20

to this, it's closed on Mondays.

Jenn: 00:10:22

Don't be like me going to Dr.

Jenn: 00:10:24

Mudd's house Coming to a locked

Scott: 00:10:26

And, and definitely don't, don't drive there.

Scott: 00:10:29

If you're too low on gas, you make sure you get gas, a decent ways before you get

Scott: 00:10:34

there because Eastern shore, it's great.

Scott: 00:10:36

There's, there's plenty of kind of services on the drive out there,

Scott: 00:10:40

but it's not a main, it's not the

Scott: 00:10:42

95.

Scott: 00:10:43

Going between Richmond and D.

Scott: 00:10:44

C.,

Jenn: 00:10:45

expensive.

Scott: 00:10:46

it's a little more expensive and those gas stations get a little

Scott: 00:10:49

bit more spread out, and then when you're driving around, like when we

Scott: 00:10:52

were driving around from the Visitor Center over to the marker, you're

Scott: 00:10:55

just driving some side country roads.

Jenn: 00:10:57

Yeah, exactly.

Jenn: 00:10:58

It's open 10 a.

Jenn: 00:10:59

m.

Jenn: 00:11:00

to 4 p.

Jenn: 00:11:00

m.

Jenn: 00:11:00

and the address is 4068 Golden Hill Road in Church Creek, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:11:07

So you're in that, like you said, rural Maryland area and

Jenn: 00:11:13

the National Park Visitor Center It's a really great facility.

Jenn: 00:11:18

It has a great movie that you can watch there.

Jenn: 00:11:20

It really talks you through her life, has a lot of things that kind of show

Jenn: 00:11:23

you what built her and changed her life.

Jenn: 00:11:28

And it shows you more kind of hands on exhibits.

Jenn: 00:11:33

But it was really a neat place to go, especially for our children to.

Jenn: 00:11:37

I think it's safe for kids.

Jenn: 00:11:39

I'm safe.

Jenn: 00:11:40

I mean, it's not too much for them.

Scott: 00:11:42

yeah.

Scott: 00:11:42

No.

Scott: 00:11:43

It's super kid

Jenn: 00:11:43

Yeah,

Jenn: 00:11:44

super kid

Scott: 00:11:44

And even one of the things that I actually really appreciated, because

Scott: 00:11:47

they talked, they go a lot of kind of explaining her family history and kind

Scott: 00:11:50

of all her family figures, but they, they, they weren't afraid to emphasize

Scott: 00:11:54

her youth when she got injured, when she got hit in the head by that weight.

Jenn: 00:11:59

So we actually go there.

Jenn: 00:12:00

That was very important to me.

Jenn: 00:12:01

I, that's another place that you can go that is, is there waiting for you.

Jenn: 00:12:05

It's called the Bucktown village store and it's at 4303 Bucktown

Jenn: 00:12:10

road in Bucktown, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:12:11

Easy.

Jenn: 00:12:12

You just really got to remember one

Scott: 00:12:13

word.

Scott: 00:12:14

Bucktown

Jenn: 00:12:15

Bucktown, because it's like Bucktown Village Store,

Jenn: 00:12:18

Bucktown Road, Bucktown, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:12:19

So this is the store.

Jenn: 00:12:21

It's really at the end of the road from where the Brodess

Jenn: 00:12:24

plantation was, where her marker

Scott: 00:12:25

about a mile from the

Jenn: 00:12:26

So it's very easy to find.

Jenn: 00:12:28

It's at the T in the road.

Jenn: 00:12:29

It's the store right at the end of the T.

Jenn: 00:12:31

And it's a little yellow store.

Jenn: 00:12:34

She was there in 1835.

Jenn: 00:12:38

And she was, who knows, I think she was there, probably buying or purchasing

Jenn: 00:12:42

things for her, for the for her.

Jenn: 00:12:44

enslaver and another boy had run away from his plantation and his

Jenn: 00:12:50

overseer had come into the store to get him, to catch him basically.

Jenn: 00:12:55

And he was trying to grab this boy and he threw a two pound weight at

Jenn: 00:13:00

the boy to hit him with the two pound weight and it ended up missing the

Jenn: 00:13:04

boy but hitting Harriet in the head.

Jenn: 00:13:06

Now a two pound weight, They use these kinds of weights and measures on the

Jenn: 00:13:10

table when you're buying things, because you're going to buy two pounds of

Jenn: 00:13:13

flour or two

Scott: 00:13:14

they actually, in the visitor center, they show you an example.

Scott: 00:13:16

And it's, it's a good size.

Scott: 00:13:18

It's, think of one of those skinny Coke cans,

Scott: 00:13:21

the little small ones about that

Jenn: 00:13:22

solid

Scott: 00:13:23

solid I mean, it's two pounds in that, in a tiny little size.

Scott: 00:13:27

You, if you're throwing that at someone, it's going to do damage.

Jenn: 00:13:29

So when you're like, well, how did he have a two pound weights?

Jenn: 00:13:31

Because that's how they, if you're buying two pounds of flour, two pounds

Jenn: 00:13:34

of sugar, they'll put that on one side of the weight like a measure.

Jenn: 00:13:38

And then they put the, whatever you're buying on the other side.

Jenn: 00:13:40

So, you have bought two pounds.

Jenn: 00:13:42

So that's what he grabs off the counter to fling at this.

Jenn: 00:13:45

This kid, like how terrible that fling this two pound weight, this kid misses

Jenn: 00:13:48

the kid hits Harriet right in the head and it busts her skull and she's bleeding

Jenn: 00:13:55

and they take her back to the plantation.

Jenn: 00:13:57

They basically have to carry her back.

Jenn: 00:13:59

She lays in a bed for two days and eventually they just

Jenn: 00:14:01

start making her work again.

Jenn: 00:14:03

But it's that moment that she starts to.

Jenn: 00:14:09

have visions of God, like that's when she starts to hear

Jenn: 00:14:13

God speaking directly to her.

Jenn: 00:14:15

And, you can call it what you will, whatever's happening.

Jenn: 00:14:20

She is having seizures now start happening to her as well.

Jenn: 00:14:23

But this is what really inspires her to start this whole freedom

Jenn: 00:14:29

campaign and to really feel, I guess, empowered to do all of these

Jenn: 00:14:35

things she's going to do in her life.

Jenn: 00:14:37

She is more than just an underground railroad conductor.

Jenn: 00:14:41

She's going to be a spy for the civil war.

Jenn: 00:14:44

She's going to become a nurse.

Jenn: 00:14:46

She's going to lead a military militia during the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:14:50

And her belief in herself to accomplish all these things is because she believes

Jenn: 00:14:54

the Lord is speaking directly to her.

Jenn: 00:14:57

So I think that's just so phenomenal.

Jenn: 00:15:00

And to be at that store on that porch where that happened to her.

Jenn: 00:15:05

is, is just really amazing and powerful for this heroine of American history.

Jenn: 00:15:09

So it's there for you.

Jenn: 00:15:10

If you want to go, those places for, for us were very important to visit.

Jenn: 00:15:14

So the visitor center, the marker, and then the store.

Scott: 00:15:24

Yeah, and it was amazing to me One of the things in, in, in the entryway to

Scott: 00:15:29

the visitor center is they have a, a small bust of, of Harriet and it, it doesn't

Scott: 00:15:35

look like too much, but as I was walking on my way out, one of the, the national

Scott: 00:15:39

park guides, the Rangers said, Hey, what's significant about Harriet Tubman?

Scott: 00:15:44

About that bust.

Scott: 00:15:45

I it just looks like a bus.

Scott: 00:15:46

He's well, it's, it's five feet high.

Scott: 00:15:48

And that's how tall she was.

Scott: 00:15:50

They said she was only five feet tall.

Scott: 00:15:52

So I went over there and standing next to it, right?

Scott: 00:15:54

And five feet tall is, is not very tall for this woman who did some

Scott: 00:15:58

incredible things throughout her life.

Jenn: 00:16:02

And I think that was great too for our kids to see that.

Jenn: 00:16:06

So Again, what I appreciate about Harriet Tubman is she's using these

Jenn: 00:16:11

things that really would be a hindrance that we would think in her favor.

Jenn: 00:16:17

And that is why she's such a great spy during the Civil War is

Jenn: 00:16:21

because no one's paying attention to the short, small black woman.

Jenn: 00:16:29

She's like the bottom of the totem pole that people think a knows anything or can

Jenn: 00:16:34

be of any value or to be of any threat.

Jenn: 00:16:37

So.

Jenn: 00:16:38

She's the perfect person to gather information, to lead a scouting party,

Jenn: 00:16:43

to lead the Underground Railroad because she's the one you're not looking for.

Jenn: 00:16:47

She's not even on your radar.

Jenn: 00:16:49

Harry Tubman will, she, She will see her sister sold away from her and she will

Jenn: 00:16:57

see, her enslaver dies and then she's kind of she's She's sold away The woman becomes

Jenn: 00:17:06

the owner of the plantation and she can't afford to make ends meet So she starts

Jenn: 00:17:11

to sell her enslaved because they're

Scott: 00:17:13

which is some of harriet's

Jenn: 00:17:14

yeah resources, right?

Jenn: 00:17:15

And so so Harriet's done She's like I'm done with this.

Jenn: 00:17:19

That's it.

Jenn: 00:17:19

And she just walks basically just walks away one day I think that's

Jenn: 00:17:23

And she just sings this song and she walks away and she takes her brothers with her.

Jenn: 00:18:02

And they put out an ad for her in the paper.

Jenn: 00:18:06

This is 1849.

Jenn: 00:18:07

So this is right before the Fugitive Slave Act comes out.

Jenn: 00:18:11

And the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 really starts to separate the country because

Jenn: 00:18:16

it becomes a law that if you don't.

Jenn: 00:18:20

You might not be an enslaver in, in the northern states or even in the

Jenn: 00:18:23

southern states, if you don't help catch runaway slaves or you do anything to

Jenn: 00:18:28

hinder the capture of runaway slaves, you could help be held liable by

Jenn: 00:18:31

the law, which means they could take your property and put you in jail.

Jenn: 00:18:37

And so people get very mad about that.

Jenn: 00:18:38

Like, how can you put that onus on me if it's not something that I agree with?

Scott: 00:18:43

a horrible law.

Jenn: 00:18:44

Why should I?

Jenn: 00:18:45

So this is when people really dig in their heels and the Underground

Jenn: 00:18:48

Railroad really gets more solidified.

Jenn: 00:18:55

So what is the Underground Railroad?

Jenn: 00:18:56

I think I tried to explain it in the video, but I don't

Jenn: 00:18:59

do a very good job of it.

Jenn: 00:19:00

So this Underground Railroad is basically a underground network of

Jenn: 00:19:04

people who help enslaved And it starts pretty early, I'd say about 1830.

Jenn: 00:19:12

And probably even before that, but it gets more solidified in 1850,

Jenn: 00:19:15

where it really is a network, and it's not underground, but it's

Jenn: 00:19:20

underground because you can't see it.

Jenn: 00:19:22

Like railroad tracks, you can see.

Jenn: 00:19:24

This you can't see.

Jenn: 00:19:26

People just know it.

Jenn: 00:19:27

People who conduct themselves know where these safe haven houses are.

Jenn: 00:19:31

Or these places that you can hide out and so they can know

Jenn: 00:19:34

the routes to get to them.

Jenn: 00:19:36

And I've talked before, there was an underground railroad stop in Memphis,

Jenn: 00:19:40

and it's, it's identifier was two trees that don't lose their leaves.

Jenn: 00:19:44

And so they had two big magnolia trees in their front yard and

Jenn: 00:19:47

magnolias don't lose their leaves.

Jenn: 00:19:48

And so even through the winter, they would have these two trees.

Jenn: 00:19:51

So that would be a way to identify that house for the

Jenn: 00:19:54

Underground Railroad in Memphis.

Jenn: 00:19:56

Plus, they're on the outskirts of Memphis and they were livestock stock owners.

Jenn: 00:20:00

So lots of smells coming from the area would keep people away.

Jenn: 00:20:04

So that was a perfect stop for the Underground Railroad.

Jenn: 00:20:07

Most of the time, Underground Railroad would also have, think of Anne Frank

Jenn: 00:20:11

hiding away during the Holocaust, hidden bookcases, hidden basements,

Jenn: 00:20:18

hidden rooms where you, if somebody was to come and say, I saw black,

Jenn: 00:20:23

black enslaved running by here.

Jenn: 00:20:26

Can we search your house?

Jenn: 00:20:27

Sure.

Jenn: 00:20:27

Because you have them hidden away in a secret room.

Jenn: 00:20:30

And so that was also very well known with the underground railroad was these secret

Jenn: 00:20:34

rooms and places that people could be in the house and collect resources, rests.

Jenn: 00:20:40

As they make their way, and most ens slaves are making their

Jenn: 00:20:43

way into the Northern states.

Jenn: 00:20:45

But with the Fugitive Slave Act, it didn't stop enslavers from coming

Jenn: 00:20:49

for you in those northern states.

Jenn: 00:20:51

So some of them went even further on into

Scott: 00:20:53

Yeah, and I thought it was, it was neat, again, the Visitor

Scott: 00:20:56

Center does a really good job of kind of showing the whole.

Scott: 00:20:59

Span of early Harriet Tubman through the civil war and the underground railroad.

Scott: 00:21:04

And then.

Scott: 00:21:05

After the Civil War, it in a bit of her, her later life.

Scott: 00:21:09

But showing the maps, and some of the, the known paths of the Underground

Scott: 00:21:13

Railroad were, were pretty expansive, and going to the big cities and then, then

Scott: 00:21:18

making a little bit more of a beeline for, for North up into, up into Canada.

Jenn: 00:21:23

It says here that she she escaped for the

Jenn: 00:21:25

first time, September 17th, 1849.

Jenn: 00:21:28

If she's born 1822, she's 27 years old when she's making her first escape.

Jenn: 00:21:33

And then she comes back a couple more times to get the rest of

Jenn: 00:21:36

her family 70 members in all.

Jenn: 00:21:39

And because she knows that area so well, she's able to come back and

Jenn: 00:21:42

get them and get her family members because that's the, that's the tie.

Jenn: 00:21:46

That's the tether to the area in to freedom.

Jenn: 00:21:49

But then when the civil war breaks out.

Jenn: 00:21:53

And she's going further down into the south to help get enslaved out

Jenn: 00:21:58

of their predicaments and their enslavements in the southern states.

Jenn: 00:22:03

During the

Scott: 00:22:04

Yeah.

Scott: 00:22:04

much further south

Jenn: 00:22:05

much further south of Maryland, and that's when she works with the military

Jenn: 00:22:09

And that's when she starts to become a spy because she's given this pass that

Jenn: 00:22:14

kind of gets her to move between the north and the south lines Because she

Jenn: 00:22:20

can portray someone who isn't who isn't

Scott: 00:22:22

Yeah, that's how she passes.

Jenn: 00:22:23

and that's how she's passing She's passing back and forth between

Jenn: 00:22:26

these lines and she's able to get people through and again Nobody's Noticing her

Scott: 00:22:32

she, she's five feet tall, she's female and back then she's,

Scott: 00:22:36

she's African American, so she's all the things that a soldier would

Scott: 00:22:40

basically

Scott: 00:22:41

immediately

Scott: 00:22:41

dismiss.

Jenn: 00:22:43

So from 1851 to 1862, she returned repeatedly to Maryland.

Jenn: 00:22:47

Again, rescuing some 70 slaves in about 13 different expeditions.

Scott: 00:22:53

And I thought one of the things that was was really interesting was when

Scott: 00:22:57

she led that military, I don't know, was an expedition or kind of mission and,

Scott: 00:23:03

I mean, they, they set free hundreds of people and, dismantled Confederate

Scott: 00:23:08

this, that, and the other, and, took down some plantations, I mean, she helped

Scott: 00:23:13

lead a pretty serious military effort.

Jenn: 00:23:22

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:23:22

So that was in 1863 and it's called the Combahee River Raid.

Jenn: 00:23:29

So she used her knowledge of covert travel around the port

Jenn: 00:23:33

royal area of South Carolina, and she was down in that area and.

Jenn: 00:23:39

She guided three steamboats with black soldiers under Montgomery's

Jenn: 00:23:42

command past the mines on the Combahee River to assault several plantations.

Jenn: 00:23:48

Once ashore, the Union troops set fire to the plantations,

Jenn: 00:23:52

destroying their infrastructure.

Jenn: 00:23:54

And forewarned by the raid by Tetman's spy network, enslaved people throughout

Jenn: 00:23:58

the area heard the steamboat whistles and understood they were being liberated.

Jenn: 00:24:01

So she had gone, she had made sure they knew what was going

Jenn: 00:24:04

to happen before it happened.

Jenn: 00:24:05

And then she came down there and led these men of the, I think it

Jenn: 00:24:09

was the 15th South Carolina and then to show them where to go.

Jenn: 00:24:15

And then she helped liberate those people out of there.

Jenn: 00:24:18

So she watched as those fleeing slavery stampeded towards the boats.

Jenn: 00:24:22

She later disguised the scene as some barrages.

Jenn: 00:24:24

kind of chaos.

Jenn: 00:24:25

But as the confederate troops erased the scene that the steamboats took off

Jenn: 00:24:29

with more than 750 formerly enslaved

Scott: 00:24:32

That's amazing.

Jenn: 00:24:33

It's amazing.

Jenn: 00:24:34

What she did was really

Jenn: 00:24:37

groundbreaking.

Jenn: 00:24:38

And more than a hundred of those newly free men, black

Jenn: 00:24:43

men, joined the Union Army.

Scott: 00:24:45

Yeah, I saw that.

Scott: 00:24:46

Yeah, yeah, you, you mentioned that.

Scott: 00:24:47

I don't know if that made the, the video cut, but you said that,

Scott: 00:24:50

I mean, they, they escaped, and then they joined right back up to

Jenn: 00:24:53

joined way back up to fight.

Jenn: 00:24:54

So this is mid war, right?

Jenn: 00:24:56

This is June, 1863.

Jenn: 00:24:58

And reports of her involvement in the raid led to people calling her General Tubman.

Scott: 00:25:03

Oh,

Jenn: 00:25:04

And I think John Brown had called her that previously.

Jenn: 00:25:07

So people joined in on that, but she's widely regarded as

Jenn: 00:25:10

the first woman to lead U.

Jenn: 00:25:11

S.

Jenn: 00:25:11

troops in an armed assault.

Jenn: 00:25:13

And that, for me, was pretty just monumentous and important.

Jenn: 00:25:18

That's why we left the flag there for her, because what she did for

Jenn: 00:25:21

American military, but also in American history, she really was

Jenn: 00:25:25

a groundbreaking, changing woman.

Jenn: 00:25:27

And

Jenn: 00:25:29

think it should be celebrated.

Scott: 00:25:30

thought it was so neat, too, that she's born in 1822, died in Yes.

Scott: 00:25:36

And that's quite a, we've talked about a couple of historical figures that have

Scott: 00:25:40

been born in that similar era, and talk about a period of true drastic change

Scott: 00:25:49

over the course of 90 years, right?

Scott: 00:25:52

Think about after the turn of the century, right?

Scott: 00:25:55

We're, we're looking at world's fairs now and we're looking at

Scott: 00:26:00

the, she was at the, the front end of the suffrage movement, right?

Scott: 00:26:04

When she was in her much later years, it was pretty, I mean, think

Scott: 00:26:07

about where she came from and as she passed where the country was.

Jenn: 00:26:12

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:26:12

I mean she really did.

Jenn: 00:26:15

take her agency upon herself and change her life.

Jenn: 00:26:19

And in the interim she changed anyone's life.

Jenn: 00:26:21

She really came in contact with as well.

Jenn: 00:26:24

I mean, I really do think she is a Renaissance woman.

Jenn: 00:26:26

She did what needed to be done in pretty much every instance.

Jenn: 00:26:29

She conducted an underground railroad that needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:32

Spy for the civil war that needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:34

She led a militia because that's what needed to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:36

And And we know her at Fort Monroe nursing soldiers soldiers and

Jenn: 00:26:42

formerly enslaved that were there because it needed to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:45

And then when she gets, she eventually will end up in upstate New York and

Jenn: 00:26:50

she is part of the suffrage movement because that is the area where the

Jenn: 00:26:53

suffrage movement really gets a hold and it's what needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:58

So she starts, giving talks and giving her experience.

Jenn: 00:27:01

They're putting the face behind an African American woman as

Jenn: 00:27:05

part of the suffrage movement.

Jenn: 00:27:06

So I just feel like to go where it all started and to be there and

Jenn: 00:27:12

to be in the space, which is very important to us, and to, to honor

Jenn: 00:27:16

her and it just was an amazing place to visit for Walk with History.

Jenn: 00:27:22

I think it's an important place to, to go to and I just think she's a

Jenn: 00:27:26

woman that deserves to be celebrated.

Scott: 00:27:28

she's a woman that deserves to be celebrated.

Scott: 00:27:35

We, we made a specific effort to drive almost four hours to

Scott: 00:27:39

get there and it was worth every minute It was absolutely worth it.

Scott: 00:27:44

Even if this isn't your kind of typical foray into what you're doing

Scott: 00:27:48

on the weekends, I would recommend this to someone because it really

Scott: 00:27:52

was powerful kind of learning about her story and learning about Where

Scott: 00:27:57

she came from, what she did, and the impact that she had, had on history.

Scott: 00:28:06

Well folks, that brings us to the end of our journey through the

Scott: 00:28:09

life and legacy of Harriet Tubman.

Scott: 00:28:11

I hope you found it as inspiring as we Standing in Harriet's birthplace and

Scott: 00:28:17

exploring the museum truly emphasized the incredible strength and bravery it took

Scott: 00:28:21

for her to fight for freedom, not just for herself, but for countless others.

Scott: 00:28:26

Her story is a powerful reminder that even in the face of immense

Scott: 00:28:29

adversity, A human spirit can persevere.

Scott: 00:28:33

If you'd like to learn more about Harriet Tubman and the Underground

Scott: 00:28:36

Railroad, we've included some resources in the show notes for this episode.

Scott: 00:28:39

Thank you for joining us on Talk With History.

Scott: 00:28:41

As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider

Scott: 00:28:44

subscribing, giving us a review.

Scott: 00:28:47

It really helps us grow and continue to share these important stories.

Scott: 00:28:51

And remember, we rely on you, our community, to grow, and we

Scott: 00:28:54

appreciate you all every day.

Scott: 00:28:57

We'll talk to you next time.

Jenn: 00:28:58

Thank you.