How many times have you sat down to do something and then got distracted by your phone on the table next to you? We've all been there. There are so many distractions around us, and we need to be aware of this as content creators.

Today, I have Emily Aborn, a content copywriter, speaker, and podcast host, on the show to talk about all the distractions we're facing today and how this impacts us as content creators. She shares why it's so hard to keep listeners engaged, what we can do to help our audience be more focused, and what to keep in mind when it comes to how we're delivering our content.

⭐️ Resources Mentioned:

• Follow me on Instagram @podcastingforeducators 

🔗 Connect with Emily: 

• Listen to her podcast, Content with Character
• Check out her website
• Connect with her on LinkedIn
• Follow her on Instagram @emilyaborn

🎤 Recommended Podcasting Resources:

• Hosting: Captivate.fm (Get a free 7-day trial!)
• Transcription: Otter.ai
• Project Management: ClickUp
• Private Podcasting: Hello Audio
• Podcast Playlist Toolkit
• Launch Your Podcast: Free Podcast Launch Guide & Podcasting for Educators Prep School
• Level Up Your Podcast: Podcast Like You Mean It
• Leverage Podcast Guesting: Guesting for Educators Mini-Course

Show Notes: https://podcastingforeducators.com/episode143

Some links mentioned are affiliate links. This helps to support this podcast at no additional cost to you. 

Topics in this episode: tips for podcasters, educational strategies, marketing tips for TPT sellers, online educator tips

Sara Whittaker 0:00

Emily Aborn 1:41

Thanks for having me, Sarah, I am so excited to be here.

Sara Whittaker 1:45

Awesome. So we are going to be talking about a topic that I'm really excited about. We've never specifically talked about this on the podcast, I think it's going to be very relevant for my listeners about creating content that keeps people engaged, because there's a lot of distractions out there. And we want to be able to engage our audience and make them want to come back and keep consuming our content. So let's get right into it. I'd love to first talk about where do all of these distractions come from? And why is it becoming such a problem for us as content creators?

Emily Aborn 2:20

So the way I first kind of stumbled into this topic was that I had attended a whole bunch of conferences in this this past fall. And you know, I'm used to being cognizant as a writer and as a podcaster, of how to like, eliminate distractions, you know, at least it's in my mind, right. But when I was sitting there listening to a lot of different speakers, I watched, like one woman brought something up on the screen that required everyone to bring out their cell phones. And I'm not kidding you seven minutes later, guess where everybody's attention still was it was on their cell phones. Sure. And so I was just very aware during that whole kind of like conference spree that we are really really distractible. And it's not just, it is partly our own brains, like your your brain's actual natural state is to be distracted 47% of your day, meaning 47% of the time, your brain is not even focused on what you're doing. Some of that is because you're driving and you don't need to be necessarily like, you don't need to think through every single thing. But some of it is because our brains natural state is just to like, bounce around into thoughts, right? Yeah. And then there's that added aspect of like the technology piece. So people's attention spans are shorter than ever. And technology is pinging and pinging and dinging and calling for them and flashing things at them. And then the other piece of it is how we actually deliver the products. So sometimes we unintentionally distract people by a variety of different things, which we're gonna get into. So it's important to remember as content creators alike, or up against three different factors, we're up against them, us and then just like the natural state of the brain, and that's why this topic is near and dear to my heart. That's why I think we have a big job. And I think this is a really important thing to talk about.

Sara Whittaker 4:14

Yes. Oh, my gosh, I couldn't agree more. And as you were kind of talking about your experience at the conferences, and just distraction in general, it makes me think about something that I hadn't thought before we hopped on here. But a big question that I get a lot from podcasters is that when they're doing interviews, like you and I are doing right now, like even during an interview, just talking one on one, they feel distracted, and they have a hard time like being in the moment and keeping the interview flowing because which is a skill, right? Like being able to actively listen to the person that you're talking to without being too focused on like what you're going to say next or how you're going to respond to things. So there's so many pieces of like, just how many distractions there are and everywhere around us, I

Emily Aborn 5:01

actually think that's a really we should just start there. Because that's it is a skill. And you I know that when I first started interviewing people, I literally just had like a list of questions. And because I was so nervous, I would just ask them the questions like very robotically, and in between, instead of actually listening to what the person said, I would just say like, Oh, I love that, and then just move on to my next question. So,

Sara Whittaker 5:24

and that was like, the most common phrase, I think that I hear on podcast interviews. I love that next question.

Emily Aborn 5:30

So the way I taught myself to get better at it was twofold. First of all, I always have listened back to my interviews. And then I was able to say, Oh, my goodness, that is not how I wanted to be doing my interviews. I also listened to like podcasters that are really good at interviewing. But first and foremost, when you get on to do a client call to do a podcast, interview, whatever you're doing, like put your phone and do not disturb, and just like make the decision that you're going to be present. And sometimes that's awkward and clunky. And we talk over each other or we feel nervous, right? But just like making that decision that you're going to be in the room with the person you're in the audience can most certainly feel that and hear that and you will in the long term, be better for it and be less distracting and distractible.

Sara Whittaker 6:18

Yes, such good advice. I mean, as I told you, so many people who are listening are either current educators, they might be in the classroom or former teachers. And it makes me think of teaching like, as teachers, you have a million things to do every single day. And I know as a teacher, I would have a hard time putting that aside, and only focusing on like, Okay, I just need to focus on like the lesson that I'm teaching right now or the student that I'm talking to. And the other things I can deal with later. And it's the same kind of thing. When you're doing a podcast interview, like, just be in that moment, which is easier said than done, for sure. I

Emily Aborn 6:54

even have to practice it. Like when my husband comes home from work, and we're having like that after work chat. Like last night, I went to sleep, and I woke up this morning, I was like, oh my god, I did not listen to anything. He said, like I was so distracted the entire time. So it's, uh, obviously, there's like, you could meditate and learn mindfulness. And that's how you can help yourself train in that. But it really is just like this effort that you have to keep coming back to. So it's not easy, but it's well worth it. And yes, I want to say specifically for educators. It's like a blessing, like your brain is moving really fast, you're able to overcome things before they happen. You're predicting problems, like you're just constantly in that mode. And so it's not a problem, per se. It's just like, How can I bring myself back also to being present? Yeah.

Sara Whittaker 7:42

And I love that you mentioned that you listen to all of your interviews, because I know a lot of podcasters don't do that, especially if they outsource their editing. Like, they'll just never listen to it. And I think it's really valuable to listen back to all of your episodes, because you can catch those crutch words that you use a lot or see how you can improve, especially with things like an interview. Yeah,

Emily Aborn 8:10

it's also helps you refine your message. So I know I don't want to get too much off on a tangent. But I do think that listening to yourself, whether you're a guest on somebody else's show, or you're doing your own show, it can help you to really like get clear on like, oh, no, this is how I want to say or I love how I said it here, you know? So think of that to its advantage to you and your the way that you present yourself. Yes,

Sara Whittaker 8:34

absolutely. Okay, so I know, I don't want to get us off track too much. But I do think that that was like an important little side chat to have. Okay, so then what are some things that we can do as content creators, to help our audience be less distracted and to focus on our content?

Emily Aborn 8:53

Okay, let's talk about a couple of things. One I love and this is one we can definitely use as podcasters. It's kind of like giving people a preview of what's to come. So I might say, you know, I'm going to share with you four ideas for helping to eliminate distractions. So people are already kind of queued up and waiting for those ideas. Right. So it's previewing what you are going to say. On the flip side, this is one idea. So I'm actually going to give you five. On the flip side, you can then go ahead and summarize the things that you said again, because I don't know if you've ever had this experience, you're listening to a podcast and you know, they have seven tips, and you're like excited for the seven tips. But then you're like suddenly looking up and you're like, Wait, how am I tip six, you know, you're like I missed all of the tips because your brain went someplace else. So summarizing it again, helps people to like, not be so distracted, and it also gives him that invitation. Like if I wanted to go back and listen to the tips that I missed because I got distracted. I have the opportunity to do so previewing. And summarizing, previewing also gets people like excited for what's to come. It's like, oh, it perks their ears up to be engaged, right? Like, this is something that applies to me on tip number three, I'm gonna listen for tip number three. So I love that one. It's really simple. And we can all keep on practicing it previewing. And then summarizing. The second one, I think is we talked about be engaged, like, even if you're writing, if you're doing a real, be present and engaged, and just take that minute to like, get centered and grounded in yourself, whatever you want, however, that looks for you, and be where you are. So I think that that comes through when we're I just wrote an email actually, I was like, Oh, that was not my best work. Like, I wasn't really focusing on the email I was doing, you know, I was sitting waiting for my car to get an oil change. And I'm just like, sitting there, like tapping out this email, because I had to get my email out that week, right? Yeah, it happens. Even when we're doing written content, like we can take a second, get present, and then go from there. The other thing I think is really important is using like our personality, like telling stories and sharing humor and relating to people like I love when people aren't just so teaching, as much as they are saying, this is how I'm experiencing it. And maybe this is happening to you. So it's not as prescriptive. It's also like, I'm right here alongside you. And they're sharing those experiences, or if they don't want to get too personal, if that's not for you, which is not for everybody, using really tangible examples and analogies, like just other ways of explaining things. Because the other thing that can happen is we get so step by step, you know, like, especially if it's a framework or formula, you get so step by step, and it loses some people, some people don't learn that way. They learn through stories, examples, analogies, and you want to kind of try to hit like as many different learning styles as you can, which I know your listeners can probably superduper

appreciate. Yes, I'm like nodding my head over here. Because I think that this is such a big one for this audience in particular, because we are so used to teaching that that is what we tend to always do on our podcast. But I like the tips that you just gave I think are great, because, I mean, obviously it's okay to give tips and strategies in your episodes. But your episodes can also be sharing about your experiences or having on your listeners and sharing about their experiences and storytelling, and not just that direct, kind of listing things off. And that's something that I know is really, really challenging. For a lot of people,

I saw a really great framework, and I have yet to break it down on my podcast, but I want to, it's saying something three times, three ways using three different examples. And I like it's a lot, right, depending on what you're talking about. It can be a lot, but I like it to keep in the back of our mind when we're really trying to bring like a big point home, how can I say this three times in three different ways and give three different examples. And it just keeps you really focused on what you're talking about. And it also helps your listener to really, really engage with it and grasp it however they might might do. And the other one I really think is important is and I am so guilty of this I did a whole reel on actually of like what it can look like when you show up on a client call. And you're just speaking like industry jargon to them, right? Like, oh, my god, their eyes just glaze over. They're like, I don't know what a woman said it to me yesterday. She's like, why don't really know what you're doing for me. But I trust you. I was like, shoot. I didn't explain this. Well, yeah, I'm sharing this to say I'm guilty of these things, too. And they're areas they all of us to work on. Yes. But avoiding the complex language avoiding the jargon like how can I explain it so that a fifth grader could understand it? You know, Can Can I say this to my nephew, and then he could go explain it to his mom, right. So just avoiding complex language or jargon. If you do need to use it, define it clearly. And I also think I want to include in this category, there are buzzwords, I just had this conversation with an interior designer, there are buzzwords in every industry. So in the coaching world, for example, words like authenticity, step into your power vulnerability, like those are sort of buzzwords, and they kind of tend to lose their meaning. So like, you know, in the entrepreneurial space, specifically, I'm thinking like, up level, it's like, well, what does that even mean? solely with

AI now? Like one of the words that that always generates, yes,

AI loves it. And I my niche is like interior designers. So I get to practice this all the time. Like, am I saying this? In a really cliche way? You know, like, are we just saying elevate your home over and over and over again, I don't want to do that. So that's part of it, too is thinking, you know, avoid writing complex language and jargon but also Am I kind of using buzzwords that just have completely lost their meaning. And if there is one you have to use, define it for people or say what it means to you, or say how you experience it like, well, this is what vulnerability looks like to me, or this is what authenticity looks like. To me. I think it just, again, it helps to keep people like relating, which is like a huge part of avoiding distractions, like if they're relating to it, and it applies to them. They're in it. Okay, and last one. And I think that this is a good one for keeping curiosity in your content, keeping people engaged. And I am the biggest fan of closed loops that there is like, you give me a closed loop, and I am happy. But when it comes to creating content, I try to keep loops open. I don't like to tell people, This is what you should think this is what you should do. This is the facts, right? Like, this is the matter of fact, I like to ask them thought provoking questions and maybe engage their curiosity and say, like, how does this show up for you? How does this apply to you, if you're in an audience setting, it's so nice, you can really just like pull from the audience and say, you know, ask people to raise their hand call on people and ask them to share if it's that kind of setting. But you can do it as a podcast, or you can definitely do it in your writing. And just like keeping those loops open for people, because that keeps them engaged and curious. And that's kind of what we want to help them with.

Yes, and I don't want to put you on the spot. But can you give it like, can you give us an example of what like a closed loop would look like, versus keeping things kind of open and peeking that curiosity? Yes.

So if somebody asks me how often they should post on social media per week, my answer is going to 100% Always be it depends. Yes. And there's like all of these different factors at play. Right. So like, what else do you have going on in your life? Do you get business from social media? What social media platforms? Are you on? What

kind of outsource? Yeah, so

I was like, I have a million questions. So I might include, like, if I'm talking about that topic, and I'm trying to help people determine their frequency of posting on social media, I would say like, here are some of the factors you need to consider, you know, when making your decision. And I'm going to bring up one more example, I just did a workshop on collaboration. I believe that collaboration can be really, really great for a lot of people. For some people, it's probably not the best fit. So my goal in the entire presentation wasn't to say, this is what collaboration is, this is what you should do. It was to say, like, is this right for you? And here's all of the kinds of things you might want to consider before diving into your next collaboration? Because the answer is most likely for all of us, no matter what we're talking about. Going to be it depends, unless you're talking about like the quadratic equation, or

yes, no, I totally hear what you're saying. I think that's so true. Like we all have different businesses, we all have different circumstances. So giving people kind of the tools to be able to think about whatever the topic is at hand might look like for them or what steps they need to take after, for example, listening to your podcast episode.

Exactly. I

love that those are all such good things to think about. And so I mean, as you're going through them, it just, there's so many things that relate to education and things that we have been taught as educators, like previewing before you list off your tips and summarizing and like for summarizing, do you recommend, say you're doing an episode on like five tips to grow your podcast? Do you like to kind of summarize as you go or do like a big summary at the end?

I do both. I like playing around with it. And I love rethinking of repetition as cohesion. Like I'm just trying to make this a really cohesive experience for people. So I want it to have a nice flow through the episode. So if you if you catch yourself summarizing, and it feels choppy, or like Nope, this isn't quite right here. Maybe it's something that would fit better at the end. Like if you only have two tips, it would be weird to summarize, you know, write write, or if you're, if what you're sharing is super, super short. And you're like, let me summarize that really, really short sentence I just told you, that's also a little awkward. So it depends. But I like both. I love summarizing like, okay, like just did an episode on the Four Agreements. So I took the Four Agreements, and I like applied it to marketing. And after each agreement, I was like, okay, thing to remember for this. It's just boom thing to remember for this boom thing to remember for this boom. And then at the end, I was like, all the four are

XYZ. Yes, perfect. Okay, so then I have to ask because I love asking people this. Do you have a certain process that you follow when you plan your podcast episodes like do you do a script? Do you do kind of like a rough outline? Does it depend on the app? pisode?

That's a great question and a fun question. And I think that there's so many benefits to like whatever works for your brain I have been getting into. So I have a solo podcast, which is just me. And I also have a guest based podcast where I bring on like a female entrepreneur, somebody in their life who supports them. With my interview show, I prepare a lot by like, online stalking, let's call it of my guest, or reading their book, you know, like, I take in all that I can watch their videos, and learn about them. And then I compile my questions, and I pretty much stick to that. But I will go off piste, if my curiosity takes me someplace else. When it comes to my own episodes, I have a big long list of ideas. Like I don't know, there's probably like 200 ideas on there. And when I first sit down to plan a month, I kind of like group the month into a theme. So I'll say this month, I'm going to focus on connection and collaboration. So all of my ideas, I just pull from my idea sheet like oh, yeah, I have been wanting to talk about this. But if it doesn't feel exciting to me, then I will hold off on it. You don't like the idea sheet, it's there for a reason. But I don't need to necessarily pull from that if something else comes up. And then I do lots of research to like, if there's a piece that I need to research, I do research it because I like to have my facts straight, and my references straight. And I usually do a very heavy outline. So an outline that includes oh, I want to make sure I say this exact thing. So it's a heavy, it is a heavy outline for sure. I don't think if I just use bullet points for myself, I don't think I would feel satisfied because it takes me like two weeks to think of my podcast. Like I'm just doing it in my brain for like weeks and weeks and weeks. And I don't think it would all come out the way I want. If I just was like, let's wing it, you know,

yeah, I'm this I'm the same way. I think that having like a detailed outline helps keep me on track and make sure I'm covering everything I want to cover, but that I don't go off on all these tangents and my episodes,

that's something else actually, that I think helps people is not going off on a bunch of tangents like, Yes, show your personality and your humor and be funny and have a great time with it. But I'm so guilty of this, like, I have to catch myself. Like that's not necessarily like they don't need to know the color of your shoes. So just watching yourself, if that does tend to be your like preference, and like trying to avoid going down those rabbit holes. But at the same time, I think that being conversational, and showing like your personality is great. And yeah, I was actually just listening to a Voxer message for my friends yesterday on a walk. And I was like, somebody should like make a podcast. That's just like, your friends conversations, because this is actually conversation is really, really nice. Even if it doesn't involve, you know, yes.

Oh, yeah, I completely agree. I think there's lots of great podcasts that could be made from Voxer conversations. And I have I just like almost everybody, every podcaster that I work with, whenever we start a new show for them, they're always amazed at like, maybe they have a one page outline. But then once they actually start talking and recording, it turns out to be a much longer episode than they expected it to be. Because as you talk, you think of other things. And so it takes practice to to know like when to kind of draw that line and not go down another road.

I don't want to like get too far on to the AI topic. But if I'm have a little bit more of a, I'm going to call it like a loose topic. And it's a little more a cereal than practical. I often will go to like chat GPT that's the one I use. And I'll say like, can you help me make this into an outline that's really like specific with this takeaway. And the outlines I get from that tend to be a really good starting point and give me more ideas. And if that is something that you tend towards is like going off on tangents or you have an outline, and your brain is just like bombarded with thoughts while you're trying to move through it. It can help you like hash out the actual like tangibles of an outline. So I think yeah, I don't use it to write I don't use it to create content for me. I use it to help generate ideas and organize like all of the I like you know, get things in my brain that are going every which way into one direction.

Yeah, for sure. I've done that with outlines as well. Like it gives you kind of like a different perspective and a starting place when your mind is kind of blank when you sit down to outline things but I like that asking it to focus on a specific topic or takeaway. Yeah, that's smart. I'm going to try that one. Okay, the last thing I'd love to touch on is just you've talked a little bit about throughout our conversation about like when you're right Adding things and when you're speaking like whether that's during a conference or on a podcast. So what should we keep in mind? When it comes to like the method of how we're delivering our content?

I always like to think of first start with like, who's consuming it. So when you are doing a podcast, and also think about what they're doing when they're consuming it, so, for podcasters, we'll do podcasters speaking and then writing, okay, so for podcasters, specifically, like people are walking their dogs, they're driving their cars, they're making dinner, right, they're folding laundry, so their hands are actually often very occupied. So when I do a podcast episode, I, a lot of people will say, like, oh, I need to take notes for your episodes. And so I will always say at the beginning, and in the middle of my episode, I don't want you like thinking that you have to keep on taking notes, and that letting that be like a distraction for you or make you press pause and come back to this later. I include really detailed show notes. So just go to my show notes and click the little button that says detailed show notes, and it will take you there. And some people don't know what show notes are. So when you're when you're a podcast, you have to remember like, Okay, remember, it's audio, and how do I describe this? How do I describe how to write me a review, like I have to say like, Okay, you go to the little apple podcast thing, there's a little pencil, and then you click that pencil and then write a review. Like, you just have to think of how people are encountering it on the other side and what they're doing. You could even say, here's another idea, like, say, one of your goals is to get more reviews, you could say, you know, I'm looking for your help to write reviews, tell them how to do it. And then say, if you're walking your dog right now, or you're cooking dinner, just screenshot this podcast, and it'll remind you to do it later. Because I like how many of us use that as like our Oh, remember to do that later system? For sure. Right? So that's another idea is just like giving people those sort of like, How can I link up audio to visual if they're not actually in that visual space right now. So that's podcasting. And then like, I always try not to give too many calls to actions. So I'll say all the resources for the episode are in the show notes. But if I'm giving a call to action, at the end, I just really want to stick to one call to action, not like, here's all the different ways to work with me. And the events coming up. And like the little you know, because people at the end, you're like, I don't know, I'm not going to do any of it.

Right? Exactly. Overwhelm immediate overwhelm. Yeah, when

speaking, some of these, your audience probably definitely knows, but like not overcrowding your slides, if you use slides, you know, people will read the slides instead of listening to you if they're packed full of content. So I try to use my slides is just kind of like maybe a couple of words for each bullet point that solidifies what I'm saying. And then some like visuals to help people stay engaged and things like that. The little little things that make people laugh, like stuff like that. I saw at this conference all explain what, what it was that took people out of the moment. And she had put up a QR code on the screen. And she said, Okay, all you have to do is scan this QR code and take a survey, she wasn't even done with her workshop yet. She said, take my survey to like rate how I did in this workshop. And so you know, I scanned it, and like, I'm the first one to finish in every classroom. So like, I'm done in like two seconds. Yeah. And then I'm like, Well, I'm better better check my email, you know, I haven't checked my email yet this morning, haven't checked Instagram yet this morning. So then I'm sitting there, like six minutes later, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm down the Intagram rabbit hole. And I was supposed to be taking this two second survey. I look around the room, and everybody else is doing the same exact thing. So it's just thinking of that, like, who am I talking to? And what action Am I asking them to take? And is it going to like keep them with me? Or take them elsewhere? Yes. And then in written content, again, it's just being like really clear with your calls to action, like, click here to email me and ask me to book a discovery call or click here for a discovery call. Some buttons? I love when people get clever with their buttons, you know, yeah, but you do need to include some buttons that aren't cheeky. They're just like, contact me book a discovery call. So like, definitely have fun with some of them. Like, let's go, you know, I like let's do this, but then make sure you're including some that are just like, contact me. Yeah, click here. Now.

That's a really good point.

So those are the ones that pop into my mind. First and foremost. And I think, you know, with social media content with written content, people even still ask me, what is the link in the bio? And so I'm like, you know, even like things like that like thinking like, who am I talking to? Do they know what the link in the bio is? Do they know how to find the link in the bio? So it's like little tiny things like that. Yes, you You just have to be cognizant of for

sure. I know. Last week, my parents were on a road trip and my dad calls me and he's like, can you tell me how to listen to a podcast? We really want to listen to a podcast and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like there are people out there who Yeah, things that are very obvious to us. Might not be obvious to everybody else. So I think that that's a really good thing to remember is like, be very explicit with what you're talking about and what action you want people to take.

You actually just gave me your your so your dad was the perfect example. Because my I don't think my mom she does listen to my podcast. But the only way I think she knows how to find it is by saying like, hey, Alexa play. She built this, right? Yeah. So I don't think of that when I'm sharing my bod. Yeah, I'm just like, everybody knows how to find a badass, because I've been listening to them since 2014. Yes. But saying like, you could even say, hey, Amazon, or Hey, Siri, or whenever you talk to him, and tell him to play your podcast?

Yes. Yes. The easy route for people who might struggle with tech. Yes, I love it. Well, Emily, thank you so much. This has been really great. It's given me a lot to think about. I know it's given our listeners a lot to think about as well. Can you tell us you've mentioned you have a podcast tell us about your podcast, tell us where people can find you online after listening today. Thank

you. Thanks for the opportunity. And this was a lot of fun. So since you're already listening to a podcast II, it's probably natural for you to just find another one. So my podcast is called content with character. And it is about marketing visibility. I have an episode on not distracting people all pretty much. There should be anything that you want to learn in that podcast and more to come. And then the easiest way to find me wherever you like to connect, like Instagram, Facebook, all the places is just Emily a born.com. Perfect.

And then all of those links and everything will be in the show notes for this episode that you can get in the description within your listening out there. You're listening on right now. So Emily, thank you so much again for being here. So nice to have you.

Thank you, Sarah. This was fun.

Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. To keep this conversation going connect with me on Instagram at podcasting for educators. I'm always looking for an excuse to talk about podcasting. If you're looking for support and launching, managing or growing your podcast, check out my online course the podcasting for educators prep school at podcasting for educators.com/prep school. I'll see you here next time.