Susan O’Nell, Aja Owens, and Stan Schmidt talk about mental health and the benefits of having a wellness recovery action plan. Below are links to some helpful resources and sources cited during this podcast. Thank you for listening. Please share on your social media pages.

Copeland Center for Wellness and Recovery: The Way WRAP Works

Copeland Center for Wellness and Recover: The History of WRAP

Advocating for Human Potential, Inc.: Wellness Recovery Action Plan

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Frontline Initiative

Learn more about the Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota

- Hello and welcome to

the podcast Wellness

Matters for Direct Support.

This is a podcast

developed by the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration,

and it's focused on the

importance of health, wellness,

and self care for direct support workers.

My name is Chut Cheddar

and I'm a national workforce consultant,

and I'm also a direct support worker.

I'm here with my colleague Mark Olson.

- My name is Mark Olson,

and I also am someone that's

provided direct support for many years.

I am the cohost of the podcast and,

and I'm very glad to welcome

my colleague Susan Oell,

to the podcast today.

And she will introduce

the rest of our guests

who are gonna be talking

about wrap and what WRAP is.

So, Susan, if you'd be so

kind is introduce yourself

and then move forward

and introduce our guests.

- Sure. Well, as she

said, my name's Susan Oll.

I'm super happy to be here

and I know that you guys invited me

because, you know, I have a long history

of being a direct support

professional that I did that work

for many years and even to this day,

maintain a really close relationship

with a fellow I met years

ago who used to live with me

and, you know, kind of keep

my eye on how things are going

for him and stay connected

to him in a, in a,

a real close way to make

sure his life is going well.

I now write curriculum for

direct support professionals

and make and direct that

here at the institute.

So that's my, that's my role Now that,

but I think you guys invited me here

'cause you wanted to hear

about how I use wrap,

which is wellness Recovery

action planning to kind

of help me stay well

and stay healthy as I go

about my caregiving roles

and how maybe DSPs could use that

as well in their caregiving to

help themselves stay healthy

and well as they manage the

many things they have to manage.

When you guys invited me to do that,

and we'll talk more in a little bit about

what does wrap actually mean,

but when you invited me to

do that, I really wanted

to invite two friends of mine

and I'll just give you a brief overview of

how I met these folks

and then they'll get a chance

to each introduce themselves.

But Asia and I, Asia Owens

and I, we met at a mental

health conference years ago.

And to be honest, most

of our relationship is

through Facebook and letters

and things like that.

But we keep in touch with each other since

that day we clicked,

I was really impressed

with the work I was seeing her do

through an organization called

Poetry for Personal Power.

We've just stayed in touch

and I've been, I've been intrigued

and excited by all the things

I see Asia doing in her

community to, to keep things going.

And I know self-care is hard

to do when you're a busy person like that.

So, I'm, I I'm gonna, so

I, I just thought she,

and she has a wrap and she's a wrap

facilitator, isn't that right?

A Asia? Yes, yes.

Yeah, so, so that's why I invited Asia

'cause I know she's gonna,

she's gonna give us a,

a really good perspective on wrap in terms

of those kinds of things.

And then I, I invited Stan because Stan

and I went through wrap

facilitator training together.

He came all the way to Minnesota,

even though he's based

in California, Stan,

after the facilitator training,

when you do wrap the

proper way, you really have

to have at least two facilitators,

if not more, to make it work.

And Stan was looking for

some, a co-facilitator

and he reached out to me

because he wanted to do a, a wrap seminar

that was focused, that

actually had direct support

professionals and people

receiving services together in a

group building their wraps together.

And I thought, what an awesome

idea, let's, let's try this.

And this was before covid

and we did it hybrid

and Stan had to manage all that technology

and keep the classroom going.

And I just got to pop in on video,

but, so I was, I thought

Stan would be a great person

to talk about this today with us.

So with that, maybe Asia,

you wanna give yourself

a little introduction?

- Hello everybody, my name is Asia Owens.

I am a native of St. Louis, Missouri.

And as Susan mentioned,

we met through a poetry

for personal power program

that I'm a part of.

And you know, I just wanted to start

by saying I'm an artist, I'm a poet

and I've, I joined this program

because it, it was a program

that intertwined, you know,

arts and wellness

and we talk about how everyone

goes through adversities,

but when we share what we

go through, it helps others

to know that they can

overcome those challenges.

And we always talk about

like how important it is

to find your personal power.

You know, like what is that

thing that helps you to get

through tough times?

For me it's riding,

but for someone else, you know,

it could be just gardening

or something like that.

So this program has really

evolved over the years

to now we talk about peer

support, we actually work

with others who are in recovery

and just kind of help people

to come up with a plan to,

you know, just accomplish a

lot of their life's goals.

And so that's where we

started to use wrap, wrap plan

and wellness recovery

action plan to help others

to just again, you know,

come up with ways to

do the daily things that they

do and achieve those goals.

So I've worked in the community

for over 20 years just doing advocacy

and, you know, working,

you know, primarily

with the youth population

and the unhoused community.

And so these wellness plans

have really, really helped

so many that we've been able to work with.

- Thank you Asia. And now let's

hear a little bit from Stan.

I'd like to hear your introduction.

- Alright, well thank you

Susan for inviting me.

As Susan was saying,

we met at a session in

outside of Minneapolis

and WRAP was something that

I always wanted to bring to the program,

but frankly it just seemed

like an impossible feat.

And anyway, we got that done.

But I work for a company

community integrated work program,

and we specialize in working with people

who have behavioral excesses.

These are folks who literally

couldn't be in the community

unless they're in a program.

We even take folks who are in

forensic homes, so they come

with a variety of issues.

But CIWP is known for working with people

who have these challenging behaviors.

As a matter of fact, we offer

services to almost a quarter

of the regional centers in California

for 24 hour crisis response.

So we have a lot of expertise in how

to handle challenging behaviors.

The one thing that I

always felt was lacking,

however, was to be able to teach clients

skills that would put them in charge.

We still, to some degree go by

an old model where, you know,

the professional is correct

and we're the one that is administering

and telling people what

they need to work on,

even though we do person-centered

planning and all of those things.

I, I think the area of behavior

change is the one place

where we haven't done enough

in making sure clients are in

charge, it's their life.

They know themselves better than anyone.

And when I was able to work

with Susan, we really brought

that home to the clients

and staff all in the same

room, which I felt was

also a, oh, what would you say?

It, it, it was exactly the

way I wanted this to happen

because if you believe in rap,

you know, we're all equal.

We all face similar

issues in many respects.

And I wanted clients to see that.

So we took off our other

hats while we're in the room.

We, we did an eight

session course with them.

I don't know if you want more

than that right now or, that's

- Awesome, Stan.

And then that's exactly

one of the things that's

so intrigued me about the program

and why you wanted to bring rap

because it was the ultimate in

shaking up the, you know, the boundaries.

We have a lot of times that are, you know,

we need healthy boundaries

obviously, and we need boundaries

and roles and things like that,

but to be able to work

equally next to people

who are receiving the services

we're delivering is a really

powerful is it just a powerful frame?

- Yes, I thought so too.

And as, as I was somewhat

preparing for today,

I was looking over the roster

and to be honest with you,

I forgot the exact date

that we started, but it's,

it's been some four years ago,

something like that.

And all of our clients that were in

that class are still here

with us except for one.

And I thought that the wrap

had something to, to do with

that, that we really built

a community with these guys.

We did a couple wrap

pal sessions afterwards,

which I think kind of

kept this stuff fresh,

but it, it was exactly

what I wanted it to be.

- Awesome, thank you.

- Thank you Stan and Susan and Asia.

And we're gonna get into

some questions here shortly

that kind of go into you

talking a little more in depth

about how what WRAP is and how

and how it's used and how it works.

And the first question I'm

gonna ask is for Susan,

and maybe she will use the

two of you, I don't know,

but it's really just simply

explain what is wrap.

- And I really think it's

important that we give credit

where credit is due.

So the, I'm gonna just

spend like two minutes kind

of making sure some of the key

and most important things

about WRAP are happening,

including making sure

that folks know there

are some reputable places

to check in on wrap.

And I know you guys will

have links near this podcast

to help people get there,

but you always wanna go to the source.

So there's two places that

you should think about.

One is the Copeland Center

and the other is the

advocates for Human Potential.

They carry all the books

that are sanctioned by rap.

I do wanna make sure that

people realize rap has a huge

and rich history.

It comes out of the mental health area

and it really is about

empowerment, self-direction.

It was developed by folks,

led by Mary Ellen Copeland,

but developed by a number of folks who

had been basically told that

they were lucky to, you know,

take their meds and

stay in their homes and,

and receive the help that

they were gonna have.

They wanted more for their

lives and they got together

and started to figure

out how that could be.

And so the rap history is a rich one.

It has a real powerful,

powerful base to it.

And it it comes from that peer model.

And we heard Stan talk

about like that peer

and Asia talk about peers.

It's about people helping people

with unconditional positive regard.

And it is, it's, it's

incredibly powerful the process

of a rep, developing a rep

and being in that kind of

co community with people.

Then working your rep can be

quite, quite powerful too.

So it's been used out outside

of the mental health community,

it's moved into a lot

of different communities now.

And caregivers is a, is a major place

because caregiver

wellness is always at risk

'cause you're doing a lot.

And so a wrap can be a

great way to organize how,

how you are gonna come together

and keep yourself healthy in the world.

Person centered, person directed,

self-determined, peer supported.

It can't be a wrap if it's not

a hundred percent voluntary

and if it's not owned by the person.

So it's not like a, it's

not like a support plan,

a typical support plan.

This is really the person's plan

and they only share

what they want with you.

And it's built on these five recovery

principles that are important.

Hope, personal responsibility, education,

self-advocacy and support.

And they turn out to be

very powerful when you start

to apply them to your wrap.

And I think that's the big

picture on things I wanted

to make sure folks knew about wrap.

And I want you to make sure

you get to those links if you

wanna learn more and get to those good

sources we talked about earlier.

- And we will have those links available

on the podcast site when we put this up.

So you'll be able to find the

Copeland Center right from

our resources. So

- Stan or Asia, do you have

anything you would like to add

to what Susan just told us about a wrap?

- Yeah, I just wanted to add,

because I definitely think that one

of the things I just kinda

want to emphasize first is,

you know how Susan mentioned

that it's self-directed.

So definitely emphasizing

that your wrap plan is,

is specific to you, you know,

no wrap plan will be the same.

Also, you know, that

you can do a wrap plan

for just about anything.

You know, some people may do

it because they're in recovery,

but some people may wanna do a wrap plan,

you know, to plan their wedding.

You know, hey, if I'm planning my wedding,

these are the people that

I would like to be by me

'cause they can help calm me down,

but these are the people that

you might wanna keep away from

me because they're gonna stress me out.

You know, so, you know, being,

being very specific about

the things that you need

and also the things that you don't need.

And one of the things I

really like about, you know,

developing the stress, the,

the wrap plan is that again,

you know, you don't have to

feel bad about the things

that you know, you feel

are important to you

because when you are in crisis

or when you are in need, you know, this is

what is going to help you.

- Yeah, very good point.

And everything is very unique

and we actually, family

wraps are a great thing too.

There's just all sorts of

ways you can do a wrap.

It, it can and, and just the

tools are very, very powerful.

- There's always that one

person that, you know,

during the wedding planning

- Yeah, no, I, I was, you

guys got onto weddings.

I have a couple ne neighbors

who are wedding planners

and they always look so relaxed

and I think maybe they have

a, that I'm not aware of.

But what is compelling

to me is the, the story

as Susan was alluding to,

there is a rich history

and when people understand the

story of Mary Ellen Copeland

and in particular her mother

and then that whole community

that eventually was shaped

through shared experiences.

And what they understood

was they all had some

ways of coping,

but they never had a place

to really put it in print

or make sure that they remember.

And that's the whole idea of

the wrap is you can remember

what triggers you, you can remember

what makes you feel better.

And of course this idea of your

your best self is important

because if you don't know

what that looks like,

you're gonna have a hard

time maintaining it.

So I, I just, there's just nothing

that I don't love about it.

I love the folks who are involved

with the Copeland Center,

such warm and caring people,

and these are people who

really are the forgotten folks,

the, the folks that without

some of these, these,

these wellness recovery

plans would probably not be

able to do what they do.

So it's, it's so refreshing to, to be

among people who have found some answers,

at least for themselves.

- Yeah. And you know, Stan,

you really reminded me

of something that would, would hit

with I think our direct support

off audience pretty well,

which is, you know,

direct support work is a

pretty lonely job at this point

because you're, you're

often helping people,

one-on-one in their community,

but you might not have peers

of your own to check in with.

And often I find when I talk to providers

of services about wrap

or you hear them talking

about it, they're so eager

to get it to the people

receiving services.

But I think if they got it

to the direct support professionals

and the management teams

and the organization as a whole

and made that organization

healthy and well

and gave people the tools

there, that would be the place

to start a lot of times I think.

- Right? Absolutely.

There's a place here in

Sacramento called Crestwood,

residential Behavioral Health, I believe.

And they go from the top to the bottom.

Everybody has a wrap plan there.

And I think that is the way to go

because who can do this

work without knowing

what is gonna potentially trigger you

or how to keep yourself healthy

- And the power of community and peers.

- Absolutely.

- I was just gonna,

I was gonna ask a question about that.

I've heard all three of you, Stan, Susan,

and Asia, talk about community.

So tell us like why that's

so important to have

that connection of community.

- Well, for me, I tell everybody that

e everybody is struggles.

Everybody struggles with something.

It's just that until you talk about it

and find a way to talk about it,

you feel like you're the only one or,

or you, you're, you're embarrassed

to divulge it or whatever.

And this is what we found in

our group is when we started

off and, and as a

facilitator, facilitators know

that you've gotta reveal a

bit about your own struggles.

Not every detail, but you've

gotta reveal something

because ultimately people need

to all, you know, see that,

you know, you've, you've had this issue

and you've found a way

to maintain some sort

of mental health e even with that.

And then of course you bring in rap and,

and explain, well, you

know, if this happens,

this is what I do.

What is in the toolbox?

What, what are we gonna do if,

if something should come up?

But the community is, is is very important

because you share a bond after this.

For instance, the, the training

that we had in Minneapolis

was, was exactly that.

We were there for five days,

we got a lot of information,

and then at the end

people told their stories

and then it was like, oh wow, okay.

I, you know, wow, you,

you, you experienced all

of those things, but here

you are at your best self.

So the community's completely critical.

- Thanks. I really wanna hear

from Asia on that one too.

I, I, I love what Sam said,

- Susan's always a facilitator.

I love it.

- Yeah, I mean community,

the, the importance

of community in this work, again, I think

that the more people know

and realize that they're

not the only ones going

through tough times,

you know, again, it kind

of helps give them that

hope that, that it,

that it's possible to

overcome those things.

And so being able to have that connection,

because it really just comes

down to support, you know,

when people feel heard,

when people feel supported

and they feel valued,

it helps, first of all,

it helps an individual,

but collectively it helps us

as a community move forward.

So I think when we, when we

think about community, you know,

what really just comes to mind

is just that ability for us

to, you know, to connect and to connect

and support each other.

- Yeah, I would agree. And,

and I wanna say one thing

about community is an

interesting word.

And one of the powerful

things about WRAP is that it,

you have to be in community

with people you do see

as peers for it to work.

And so, so DSPs,

direct support professionals,

you know, being

with other direct support professionals,

there's common experiences

they're gonna have,

there's common things,

and that's a really

flexible and fluid thing.

Like right now, Asia, Stan

and I are all in community together,

but there might be places

where we'd need to be

with a different community

to really get the peer

support we really need for

that particular issue.

So what's really cool about

wrap is that community kind

of ebbs and flows and

has different aspects,

but it is all about shared

uplifting of your fellow humans.

And, and, and RAP has a real strong values

and ethics approach.

And, and so you, you know,

you just unconditional positive regard.

You just keep coming back to that

and it just opens your mind

to the human experience

in a different way.

- Oh, thanks Susan. And

all three of you, I, I am

so grateful for your taking the time

to answer that question.

- I would like to know from

each of you, Stan, you,

you just hit on it right away, is

that it should go from top to bottom.

So I'd like to ask each guest, each of you

to share a little bit

about your own wrap story

and what brought you to wrap

and let's start this time with Asia.

- My wrap plan and,

and why wrap is so important

to me is, Susan kind

of mentioned earlier,

you know, me personally,

I do a lot of community work.

And so when you are that

person who is, is always kind

of front and center, really

helping others to, you know,

come up with their wellness

plan and their self-care plan.

You know, sometimes you tend

to put yourself in the backseat.

And so for me, you know,

when I was introduced to rap,

it was kind of very refreshing

because it was like, okay, wow, you know,

it's me actually taking out the time

to think about those things

that one triggers me,

that stresses me out.

Things that, you know, you

probably kind of overlook

and just kind of keep moving

because you feel like

you have to help others.

So rap for me gave me an

opportunity to really just,

you know, tap into my

own, you know, wellness

and ways that I can, you

know, not just be better

for myself, but actually

be more of an asset

to the community that I serve.

So, you know, it's funny

'cause again, being a poet,

you know, I have a poem

that's called Alone in a

Crowded Room, where it just kind

of talks about when you're

that person that's, that

that always shows up

for everyone else, like

who shows up for you.

And so for me personally,

you know, I've dealt with,

you know, depression and

anxiety and things like that.

So once I was introduced to rap, you know,

it really was instrumental

in me, you know, just kind

of dealing with some of those

deeper inner parts of me

that I don't typically deal

with because I'm really focused

and concerned with everyone else.

And so I like something

that Susan said earlier too,

because it's not just about, you know,

developing a wrap plan, but

you gotta work your plan too.

Because if you come up with a plan

but you don't execute

it, you know, then it's,

you can't really understand the,

the impact that it can have.

But being able to, you

know, write my, my wrap plan

and actually work my, my

wrap plan, I've seen a lot

of change in myself personally

as well as the people

that I interact with in the community.

So, you know, rap for me has

been very, very rewarding.

- Stan, just share, please.

- Yes. So I think

for, for many people, certainly the people

that I met in the training class,

it seemed like there

was maybe one incident

or a defining moment for

them that made them realize

that they could use a little more support.

And I think for me it was similar

and I, I felt that,

you know, the, the work that

I do is, is challenging.

Most recently, I went back to part-time,

or I should say I went to part-time

for the first time in my

life I was gonna retire.

I just, my boss didn't want me to retire,

so she just asked me

what I wanted and needed

and I let her know.

But that was something that I

probably would not have been

able to do in the past.

So what I,

what I was experiencing

was a challenging work life

just before, well, actually I think just

before I, I did this, or

after I should say I became

the regional director.

So I was in charge of all

of our programs throughout the state,

including our transportation,

our fleet services,

and it was, it was, it was too much.

But what I needed to learn

was what is the trigger

and how can I get on top of that

before I am completely anxious

or whatever it is that I'm dealing with.

And I, I think for me, you

know, I had a good store

of anger too, and I needed

someplace for that to go.

But ultimately I also wanted to learn wrap

so I could teach it.

And that propelled me to, to do this.

I didn't get a lot of

support from the agency.

Certainly I was paid while I went,

but you know, everything I paid for myself

because I found personal value in it.

But also I wanted to be able

to teach it no matter what happened.

I was gonna teach this

stuff to clients and staff.

And like you say, you're absolutely right.

If we don't take care of

our DSPs, it's really hard

to take care of our clients.

They are in a hot stew, if

that's the correct metaphor, every day,

whether it be from parents or

our funder or of course us.

They, they get it in, in all places.

And often these are folks

who don't all come with a lot

of self-reflection or

education or, or tools.

And that, in my opinion is our

job. Let's give that to them.

I mean, we, we teach 'em

how to prompt a client,

why can't we teach 'em how to

take care of their mental health?

- Right. Susan, same question for you.

- Okay. Well, you know, me,

I've, I've had a long history,

my family, myself, a long history

of mental health conditions

that have been challenging

and that can really can really bring us

to places that are hard.

And so I,

early on in my life became a

mental health advocate just on

my own time, you know, outside

of work and everything.

And actually working with folks

with autism was so, so fun

for me because it made me

realize like a lot of the, like,

I, I started to understand

that idea, like, oh,

the world can be really complicated.

It really is hard to figure things out.

And it gave me some, you know,

freedom to be like, yeah,

I'm, I'm different, I'm

different from folks, you know,

and I've gotta, I've

gotta figure that out.

But fast forward many years later,

you know, life had happened.

I'm in the, I'm in the

middle of my middle ages

and I had been talking to people

and family members who loved people

who had serious mental

illness about rap as an option

of something to think about, to help them

reclaim their wellness,

reclaim their ownership

of their life, you know, and,

and figure out how they

would like to live.

And in the middle of doing

that, I realized like,

I'm really measuring

the quality of my life

by whether I wanna live another day.

Now, I wasn't suicidal,

but I wasn't living, you know, I had just,

I was just doing.

And so I thought, well,

I can't tell everybody else about rap.

I guess I should maybe try it for myself.

And so I started to get involved

in it, taking the seminars,

decided I wanted to become a facilitator,

and it,

it just was more powerful

than I thought it would be.

And, you know, I was ready for it.

So, you know, maybe

somebody might attend a wrap

seminar and not be as moved.

But for me it was really

powerful and I met great people

and I continue to meet great

people through this process.

And I learned so much about myself.

Something that Stan said

really stuck out with me about,

you know, like, you know, he

wouldn't be able to ask for

what he wants if it wasn't for rep.

And I think that is really, you know,

when we talk about the, the

value of education is you, it's,

it's education about yourself.

It's learning about who

you are and what you want,

and then learning to get that support and,

and make those self-advocacy

moves that you need to make.

And for a lot of us caregivers,

that is just not the natural way to be.

And there's just a lot of

pressure in the world to do

what you're, you need

to do for other people.

And it breaks my heart to

think of Asia ever thinking

that she's just in a room and

no one's even noticing her.

'cause she's a beautiful person

and she's doing so much for everybody.

So rap like, lets you take

ownership of that and,

and get out there and say,

you know, yeah, maybe I,

I I should have a little time too.

And it does make us better

at taking care of others

'cause we're valuing ourselves.

- Right? I think one of the

things you said was, you know,

being open to it.

And that's really

probably one of the first,

first things you need to do.

I mean, you might learn

about it intellectually,

but then to go, oh, this,

I can really benefit from doing this

and opening up that door

that it's all right for me

to take some time to focus on myself and,

and get some help with, of

what things might be triggering

or how I might be feeling.

- Yeah, it really, it really

sends you in a different way.

- Absolutely. It, it's a, it's

a mind shift at that point.

Stan, you kind of started this,

so maybe I'll have you

answer this question first.

Are there ways that you have

- Wait, wait, wait, Chuck.

Yeah, I had one more follow

up from that stuff Okay.

From the last question that

I'd like to hit on. Sure.

And you know, we talked

about that, you talked about

how important it is to

talk about the positives.

And I would love to have

each of you quickly share,

are there things that you can

do now that you couldn't do

before you started doing rap?

Are there, you know, attributes

that you've developed

because of your own rap?

- I would just say that one of

the benefits I've experienced

working my rap is putting myself first.

Because again, as much as I love serving

and doing for everyone else, you know,

I definitely have learned

the importance of, you know,

taking care of myself

and my mental wellbeing

and my physical wellbeing so

that I could be a better asset to others.

- Okay.

- Yeah,

and I think mine is, it's,

it's kind of similar to Asia.

The way it played out for me was I,

I actually learned some

self-management skills.

And I know that sounds really

funny to people who know me

because I seem like I'm on the ball

and I got everything

going on right as far as,

as far as work or whatever.

But when it, when it came to

taking care of myself and,

and kind of running through my

own day, there was never, I,

I didn't, I didn't assert

the needs for, you know,

some basic routines

or shifts in routines that,

you know, what are the things

that are gonna feed me,

keep me going, keep me well,

and I'm still working on that,

but I have, I have such

a better mastery of that.

And then that helps me understand

what's the next thing for me.

It's helping me grow even more.

Even though I'm in the, you

know, middle, middle ages here.

You know, I'm, I'm still growing

because I learned a lot

about managing myself.

And, and if you have

a trigger, guess what?

It's your responsibility to figure out

what you're gonna do about that.

And there is something you

can do about it, you know,

and I, I don't think I

always thought that way.

- Right. And Stan, did you

have anything that you wanted

to add on that question

where it's about, you know,

are there things you can do now

that you couldn't do before?

- I think for me, it wasn't so much

that I'm doing something

completely different,

but I do feel that what I do,

I understand why I do it.

And I, I value it more, for instance,

it's important for me to be mindful.

I mean, to be present, to be in the room

versus some other way of being.

For instance, I don't own a cell phone

and I think people find that ridiculous.

You know, I know myself, I'll

become addicted to that thing.

I'll be on it all the time.

And the other part is like Susan

and Asia have said, taking

care of yourself and,

and feeling good about that.

And, and that's, that is a

problem with most caregivers.

They want to apologize for

taking care of their own needs.

And I just have to say, I

just got back from Tunisia

and it was not easy to

go away for three weeks.

I do this every year. It is in my plan.

Vacations hugely important.

And I was able to do that

and keep my partner fairly

happy while I was away.

So I, I feel pretty good about that.

- And I love what Stan calls vacation.

I would call like, the

biggest adventure of my life.

The guy goes everywhere.

- Stan, good on you for being

able to make that happen.

- It's not easy.

- I mean, I just quickly, I sat through a,

or I, I signed up for, and, and,

and took kind of a real basic wrap primer

probably about a month ago.

And let's, let's just say

I walked away as a member

because, you know,

before it was even done,

I had already signed up and paid dues

because there was so much there

that made me just think,

this is really cool.

And I wanted the access that that gave me.

- So, and that was through

Copeland Center? That was

- Through Copeland Center. Right. So

- Stan, you opened this door

up a little bit ago when you

talked about you wanted to be able

to do a wrap for others, facilitate that.

So the question is for all of you,

and we'll have you kind of

start, Stan, is what are ways

that you have used

or facilitated wrap other than

for your own personal wrap?

- Well, of course I've promoted it.

I, I promote it all over the place.

I've bought many of

the books that come out

of the Copeland Center.

I dis distribute them widely.

I tell people constantly

that wrap is available.

I tell them how they can use it.

And I, I mean, even

last night I was talking

with my brother who was lamenting

that he can't find a way

to go on vacation.

And I tell him, I, you know,

I didn't go into it with him,

but I've certainly done

this with my staff.

I say, there is, you can write

a plan to go on vacation,

don't wait till the

last minute, but start.

And I've stepped them through it

because of course what I tell them is,

you can live your vacation all year long.

And that's what I do.

I not only, you know, go on vacation,

but then I write, I do photography

and all these kinds of things,

but it's about

what you need in the long run as well.

A rap isn't something that you write

for every little a grievance

that you have while driving down the road.

It's about stuff that is

consistently troubling for you.

These consistent triggers, I should say.

And when you write a plan,

you need to put in the plan

what keeps you at your best.

And for me, I have to

look forward to something.

And if I don't have a

vacation to look forward to

or getting out of town, I

am not gonna be my best.

But I, I use it at work, I

use it, I use it everywhere.

And being mindful is,

is top of mind for me.

I don't allow myself to

get dragged into things

or be overly concerned with stuff

that I don't have any control over.

And most of the time it's

just being in the room.

Even last night I had a

friend over for dinner,

my partner's on the phone.

I was sitting there by

myself with my guest

and I'm like, who's, who's, what's

so important about being on the phone

that people get into those habits?

- Thank you. Asia,

- We've facilitated these wrap plans in

so many different types of groups.

And the, the group that

I'm particularly, you know,

passionate about is, is the youth

specifically unhoused youth.

So, and at juvenile detention centers.

So one of the things that

I've, you know, kind of found

to be very, very like

rewarding is, you know, kids

who are in transition

or kids who are, you know,

in, you know, situations

that they've, you know,

found themselves in a bit

of trouble, you know,

but being able to develop

these wrap plans, I've saw,

I've seen how, you know, it's

given them hope, you know,

and it's, it's made them feel supported

to actually get out

here and make a change.

And, you know, because I feel

like it's a different approach

to what they're used to and,

and they can actually see it.

And I actually have seen

them not only come up

with these wrap plans,

but actually use them. So

- That's cool.

Very cool. Thank you, Susan.

- Yeah, that was, that

was really awesome. Asia.

That's exactly what I was

hoping to hear about when,

and this is why I love, you

know, getting together with folks.

'cause you hear about all sorts

of exciting things going on

for me, like when I facilitate, you know,

I had this experience

with Stan, I don't get

to facilitate as much as I'd like.

I would love to be facilitating more,

but I've, I've had trouble finding the,

the right partner niche here

in Minneapolis sometimes.

But, but I, I have facilitated

groups of caregivers

and I think caregivers are

my niche in a lot of ways.

It's probably where I most intuitively go.

Being a lifelong caregiver

and a professional caregiver over my life.

One of the things you do

in a wrap is you define

for yourself what you look

like when you're, well, it's,

and, and it's kind of a powerful thing.

The first time I did it, I wanted to cry

'cause I had no idea

what I looked like when

I was well at that point.

And so it was really helpful.

But it's really that, you

know, so you can do that

with an organization, you can

do that with an individual.

It, it, it applies in so many ways.

What does our organization

look like when it's, well,

you know, what would be happening?

It's really tangible.

And I, I, I find talking

to people sometimes

and helping them use that as a way

to frame up what they're going for.

'cause a lot of times we don't

even know what we're going for.

We just know we're dissatisfied

with something we have.

And then the other thing is,

the wellness toolkit is something you

learn really early on too.

And you start to look at, well, what,

what tools do you already

have that help you

be well, right now?

And they can be very simple,

but we did a little training where we had

to use just objects that

they gave us to and, and,

and figure out how we would

use them as a wellness tool.

And we had like a water bottle.

And I was like, well, you

know, when I'm really agitated

and feeling worked up, drinking

an ice cold glass of water,

like gets me back into my

body and kind of brings me

and, you know, and so

we were just laughing,

like our tagline was like, wellness can be

as simple as a glass of water.

You know? So it's like,

what tools do you have

and how do you keep expanding those tools?

What tools might you be missing?

And how can you start to fill that toolkit

so you have more options

to pull from when you are

feeling like things are getting a

little out of control for you?

- Thank you so much, Susan.

I, I, and I love that it can be as easy

as a cold glass of water.

- And for me, right in

my arms, I've got my cat.

That's one of those things, for me,

that's a wellness thing, so.

- Absolutely.

- Okay. All right.

So I'm gonna, the next question is,

what's important about rap for you?

What, what appeals to it,

to you about it personally?

Well, anyone can go.

I'm gonna just, you guys

pick who goes first.

- Well, you know, mine

is actually kind of silly

because, you know, again, I'm

a poet and I'm also a rapper.

And so when I think of

rap, you know, yeah,

it automatically, as I my mind

associates it with like rap,

but I think on a, on a whole

nother level is the fact

of just how, how simple it is.

You know, it, it seems like it's a lot,

but really, you know, once you kind

of get into it, it's real.

It it's about you, you know? Yeah.

So when you think about just how, again,

how individualized it is

and how it's your plan, I just,

I just like the simpl simplicity of it.

- And

- I definitely agree with that.

I have kind of the same triggers

generally over and over.

So I've learned how to deal with those.

And for me, it just keeps,

it keeps pushing me.

Whenever I doubt that I

need to do something, I say

to myself, well, that's in my

plan, you know, that, that's

what I need to do now

because I know this is, this is important.

This is what's gonna help me.

And I think, for instance, this vacation,

my partner was not particularly happy.

I was going, and this

is basically a trigger

for him, you know, he's

gotta stay home, take care

of the dogs, la la la and I

don't go for just a day or two.

I'm gone for pretty much a month.

So it's challenging for him.

And I had to work through

that, not giving up.

But ultimately he, he was okay with it.

I mean, this is something I do every year.

So it's not new, but it's

always a stressor for him.

But if, if I were not involved

with rap, I might just say,

okay, well forget it.

I won't go. But no, I mean,

I, I know I need that.

And I think that's what

wrap does for people.

If they believe in it and work it,

they know what works for them.

They, they know what they have to do

to keep themselves at their best.

It's just that constant reminder.

- Yeah. And I mean, I think

for me, one of the things

that I, I find really now people

do wrap really differently.

So like, some people are really dedicated.

Like, I look at my wrap every day.

I think about my wrap regularly.

I update it regularly.

I'm gonna admit I am a sporadic wrap.

And I, I, I tend to like,

go deep on it for like,

maybe take a, a Saturday or something

and really be thinking about it

and is it in tune with where I am now

and what, what needs to change now.

And there's, you know, we

haven't talked about all the

pieces of it, but there's a

lot of different pieces of it

that can help keep you in,

even though it's simple.

There's things to think about.

And so what I love is just

the intentionality about it.

Like, I have to assertively

take care of myself,

and rap helps me do that

in a way that just feels

so much more organized and gives

and yields the best

results for that effort.

Because if you just periodically

assert your wellness here

and there, it, it's never

gonna be quite as effective

as having this whole vision and,

and all of the pieces

that help you get there and stay there.

- Could you help Susan

write a wrap about being a

sporadic rapper?

- Yes. We'll touch base. I think

- That could be a really fun piece.

- You might not have much luck with that.

- But anyway, that just, you know,

but what I'm hearing a

lot is some of the tenets

that you talked about earlier,

Susan, where it talks about,

you know, the key points.

All of you have talked about the hope,

the personal responsibility,

the education,

and you know, being

active in that part of it.

The self-advocacy stand

really came out in yours

as you're talking about,

you know, as partner.

It's not his favorite thing,

but it's, it's one of those

things where it's like,

I don't know what I can do

to make it better for you,

but I know I have to do this.

So you're advocating

for your own own needs

and I think that that's really powerful

and I'm, I'm, I'm happy to hear

those things are, are a part

of what you're getting out of it.

So thank you for sharing that.

- Yeah, thank you. The next question,

and we'll start with Susan

this time and move to Asia

and then Stan, what's,

if anything, what surprised

you when you first, you know,

did your first wrap

or early on during wrap, what's

something that surprised you

and then what's something that still kind

of surprises you today?

- So I think the two things

that really surprised me when

I first did wrap one was I

didn't know what I looked like when I was,

well, which we just talked about.

I like, I, I was just, it

really made me realize like,

I really need to take care of myself

'cause I've just lost touch with

who I am at such a deep level.

And, and then that was,

so that was what I did.

My personal rep, when we did

the facilitation training,

I mean, they were like, it is nothing

but unconditional positive regard.

We are not talking about

what's not working.

We are only talking about what's working.

We are only focusing on what's working.

We're gonna take care of ourselves.

And they did it so rigorously.

And I found that to be like

really transformative to me.

And it, and it just has changed

how I facilitate every process I'm, I'm in

because it just opens

the door to self-respect

and respect for others and listening and,

and other ways of, of being

with people that are really human.

So those things were

really surprising to me.

And, and I went to that same rap

orientation, I think that Mark did.

It was a zoom that Copeland

center did a, a few weeks ago.

And every time I listen

to folks who have raps,

I learn something

and I learn something

new that that matters.

And I'm always just so surprised at like

how much more I can learn

and how many wonderful

and cool things are going on out there.

- That's great Susan.

And having known you for a long time

and worked for with you

for the last five years, I,

I see you emulating

that positive regard throughout,

throughout your day. So

- Yeah, it's something

that sticks with you,

you wanna bring to everything.

- Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Asia.

- Yeah, I think that one of the things

that surprises me about rap, I, I know we,

when you facilitate wrap, we

talk about how you can use WRAP

for pretty much any and everything.

But I think that when you

actually develop a wrap plan

for something that doesn't seem so typical

and it does actually work, like

for me personally, you know,

one of the jobs that I do,

like last year, you know,

I came up with a wrap plan to,

you know, to deal with some

of my coworkers, you know, you know,

and you know, it was, it, it was funny

because I'm like, wow,

you know, it's something

that's at your disposal to do,

but again, when you

actually put it together

and you can actually work it

and see how it is beneficial to you.

So that surprised me

that it really can work in

different capacities if you,

if you choose to.

And I think that what continues

to surprise me about rap

is kind of something that

Susan mentioned as well as far

as like how we all can kind

of like do it differently,

execute it differently, but

how it still, it still works.

You know, even though, you know,

when you think about

facilitating, you know, Susan

and I might facilitate it

very differently, you know,

but it's the same information

and whoever you're

sharing that information

with, they're gonna take it.

And because it is individualized,

they're going to be able

to create their own plans and

still work it and it works.

- Yeah. One of the things

I I heard you say is, and,

and have, have really

learned from this is,

I haven't done a wrap myself

and I always envision that

it's kind of a one and done,

but it's not a one and done.

It's something you continue

to work as different issues

or things come up in your life.

- I'm glad that you mentioned that

because that's another

important thing about wrap.

Like let's just say for instance

that you create a wrap plan

for, you know, something specific.

Like again, like, you know,

dealing with someone at work,

well every once in a while

you might wanna revisit

that wrap plan because it might

change, things might change.

So it's okay to do another

wrap plan, you know, revisit it

because what worked for

you last year, you know,

might not be the same thing

that'll work for you this year.

So reworking that wrap as well.

- Yeah. And, and you said it earlier,

not only reworking wrap,

but working your wrap.

So even though I don't

get my wrap out every day,

everything I've set into

that wrap is affecting

how I'm going about my day.

And, and you just gotta

keep carrying it, you know,

it's like, it keeps it,

but, but because it's there

and it's clear, it's not that hard.

- How about you Stan?

- I think for me,

among many surprising things was sort of

what Susan was saying about

the absence of negativity.

I mean this unconditional positive regard.

And I think what, what I enjoyed the most,

and when I first wrote a rap,

it, it was an online class

and you know, I,

I hadn't heard people speak

about their mental health

challenges in such a way before.

And it was kind of just matter

of fact, this is, this is

what happens, this is how I I deal

with it and that kind of thing.

And of course, at the training

to be a facilitator, it was similar.

Some of these folks had had

some, some pretty challenging

episodes in their past

and of course they, they, they work daily

to overcome those.

But I, I found that to

be kind of surprising

how people spoke about their challenges.

You know, once you're able

to, to speak about, you know,

what you, your own triggers are

or whatever, it becomes much less scary.

And, and people don't often know that

until they start talking to people.

- Yeah. Thanks Dan. Just kinda wanna ask

- You all to help me bring

this back to the folks that are

providing direct support

and our caregivers in,

in, in across the board.

I mean we we're talking to mostly folks

that provide supports to people with IDD

or a related condition.

Yet there are so many

different places where

caregivers need to hear

how something like wrap

or the tenets of wrap can help them

to take care of themselves.

So to any of you have at

least one final thought on how

to make that connection.

I'll let Susan start

'cause she's worked in,

in our particular field

and probably would have the

most knowledge base there,

but then each of you has

probably got something

that translates well.

So Susan, if you'd be first

and then well then stand in Asia.

- I think one thing is, you

know, I was really appreciating

what Asia brought forth with the youth

and, you know, the, they're homeless,

they're really facing real,

real ch challenges, you know,

and the fact

that rap can still work

under very extreme conditions

and it comes out of, it's rooted in that

and it comes out of that.

And so I wouldn't want people to think,

but that's just something

you do if you have the time

to think about yourself.

Like, it, it, it really is a powerful

and transformative tool.

'cause I think, you know,

when you're a d direct support

professional, you know,

you are really busy

and you also have probably a second job

and you might have kids

and you might have all sorts of stressors.

Your car's not working, you're, you know,

and I mean, I remember I

didn't have a car for a year

because I couldn't afford it.

'cause that's what the

wages were at the time.

You know, and, and so I

think just knowing that

it's a powerful tool regardless

of your circumstances, but

you do need to be with peers.

You need to be with people who

understand your challenges,

at least at some level that

is, is enriching to you

because it, you know, it,

it is about how do, how

how do we work together And the

facilitators, you know, need

to be, need to also have lived experiences

that mean something to you.

So I think that's really

important with wrap.

But for DSPs there's a lot you can get out

of it. It could really help.

- Stan, I was gonna have you go next.

- Okay. So yeah, what

what I would tell folks is,

you know, there are so many things.

I mean everybody is gonna

be different is different

for each person of course.

But if you can find what works

for you to be your best self

and try to be consistent

with that, you know, this is

what I tell my staff all the time.

We're not gonna change the world,

but we can consistently do good things

and be mindful about those things.

For instance, the very physical

part of what we have to do

to get through the day is critical.

Eating well and, and, you know, hydrating

and things of that nature go a long way

to preserving our mental health.

And people forget that.

And I tell 'em, you

know, you can't, these,

these are things you

gotta do every single day.

They, they add up over time.

And I think having things

to look forward to,

whether it be something

small like going to a movie

or something big like

going on vacation, you have

to have something to

keep the light coming in

and wrap is, is just one of many ways,

but wrap can be used in so

with so many different things.

I, I wish everybody had a wrap

because frankly I think

everybody needs it.

- Thank you. And

- I like that.

I think everybody needs a wrap. Alright,

- So give us a, a wrap now.

Asia actually I would like to,

you know, continue, continue.

You had more to add.

- Well, so no, I really,

really like what he said that

everybody needs a rap.

I think to me, one of the things

that just stands out the

most about, you know,

having a wrap plan is the

self-advocacy part of it.

You know, being able to advocate

for yourself is, you know,

it's, it's extremely important.

And as we grow and as we

evolve, again, you know, one

of the things on a personal level

that I've been experiencing

over the past year is

a lot of loss.

I've lost five family members

in my immediate family

within this past year.

And so my life is not the same.

And so I think that having rap is,

or even first of all, knowing

about rap first, you know,

knowing about it but then

being able to kind of come back

around and being in a

space to use it helps me.

And if I didn't know about rap

and if I didn't know about

certain things like, you know,

a self-care plan, I'm not sure

what I would've done dealing

with and processing grief.

So to me I can say rap

saved my life. Yeah.

- Paul, that's hard to follow that.

But here's what I'm gonna do

is I'm gonna ask you Asia,

since you are involved

with the Poetry Project

and being an artist myself,

I love that concept.

And how would people

access, give you a chance

for a shameless plug here.

How would they access

some of the poetry work

that you are doing and that,

that you are doing with your community?

- Well, I am on YouTube.

I know that Poetry for

Personal Power has a website.

I'm not exactly sure if

they have, you know, links

to the artists.

'cause we call ourselves

artists advocates. Okay.

So I'm not sure if they have links

to everyone's website

or anything like that.

But you know, if, I think

if you kind of go on Google

or go on YouTube

and type in my name Aja a, a la star.

A lot of different things

will pop up from just over the

years of me sharing poetry and art.

- Wonderful. I I just, I

just wanted to give you that,

that entree

and to get to our audience

with, with what you're doing,

because I think that that could inspire,

and the fact that, that, I'm sure some

of it has got some wrap wrapped into it.

You, you probably are, you know, are going

to be helping people.

But what I'm hearing, and,

and I'm just gonna do a little

quick sum up of, of, of,

again, the, the main tenets of wrap

that I think we're covered really well.

But whether you go and you find rap folks

and decide that you want

to em embrace rap itself

or not, I think these tenets are things

that you could explore even individually

or on your own, regardless

of if it's through rap

and that's find hope in your life.

Take personal responsibility, education,

seek education, seek

knowledge, seek learning, and,

and be active about that.

Be a self-advocate. Take care of yourself.

As, as, as some of our

guests have talked about,

how they've been able to,

you know, take over control

of some things that they

in the past may have.

Just let someone else

kind of guide them on.

And then it finally

support your community.

Support people that,

you know, need support

and support others who

maybe they aren't showing

that they need support.

Someone like Susan, who

looks like she's got it all

together, maybe inside is, is,

is needing a little support now and again.

So always make sure that you're offering

that little bit of support.

On that note, I'm gonna say

thank you to Asia, thank you

to Stan, thank you to

Susan for being our guests.

Thank you Chet, for

being an amazing co-host

and thank you for joining us.

Tune in for future

episodes about taking care

of our physical and mental health.

Episodes are available on your favorite

podcast streaming service.

This is a podcast

developed by the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

Wellness matters for direct

support is for the health,

wellness, and self-care

support, retina support

- Workers.