In this episode, Hannah and Amy sit down with Neha Aamir, a psychotherapist with nearly a decade of experience - and yes, Hannah's own therapist. Together they explore what happiness really is, why it looks so different across cultures, and why the Western model of "get the house, the car, the job" often leaves us feeling empty.

Neha introduces the PERMA model (Positive Emotions, Engagement, Relationships, Meaning, and Accomplishment) and explains why noticing joy is actually a skill, not a personality trait. We dig into the power of cognitive flexibility, the difference between being unhappy and being uncomfortable, and why relationships remain the single biggest predictor of wellbeing, for better and for worse.

We also walk through the RAIN framework (Recognize, Accept, Investigate, Nurture) as a practical tool for sitting with hard emotions instead of avoiding them, and close with a deeply personal conversation about when they each last felt truly happy.

In this episode: cultural perspectives on happiness, hedonic adaptation, the PERMA model, cognitive flexibility, self-trust, flow states, the zones of growth, and why emotional intelligence peaks at 82 (yes, really).

Find Neha: Neha Aamir, Licensed Professional Counselor, Milford, CT, 06460 | Psychology Today She currently practices in Connecticut and welcomes inquiries and consultations.

Reach out to us! Email us at icanbehappier@gmail.com or visit icanbehappier.com. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health support. Please reach out to a qualified licensed provider if you need help.

Hi everyone today and I think I can be happier.

We're talking with Neha Amir, a psychotherapist,

but not just any therapist.

She's Hannah's.

Yes, this is true.

I am so excited to bring Neha on the show because she is one of my.

Favorite people, and I want you all to hear from her.

before we get to that, make sure that you've subscribed for automatic downloads

on your favorite podcast app, so you can get our episodes right when they drop

We are planning an episode on the power of music.

And so if you have had an experience in your life where music has gotten

you through a really difficult time, or if you are someone who really

understands and could explain the power of music to our listeners, reach out.

Uh, we'd love to have you on the show

All right.

Thanks, Hannah.

Now let's get started with our interview.

Thanks so much for joining us, Neha.

I'm so glad you're here.

will you, uh, introduce yourself for our listeners and tell them

a little bit about who you are?

Of course.

So my name is Neha Amir.

I feel like this is one fun secret to finally share.

I'm Hannah's therapist, right?

Like, you

never get to say that out in public, but

true.

you're, you are giving me the opportunity to share that, so that's exciting.

Um, but I have been a psychotherapist for about a decade now.

Um, and I've been working in kind of outpatient settings, hospital settings.

Um, private practice, you name it.

And I've kind of seen people throughout the spectrum, um, as young as like

seven to 81 being my oldest and kind of help people through the lifespan.

And it's been really rewarding, um, and exciting to help kind of walk

with people through their journey and help kind of close in some gaps

and, and be a nice ear to listen to.

So very happy to be here.

Yeah.

I love that your, that your oldest client is 81.

Yeah, it keeps me on my toes because, you know, you just never, you can

be open to kind of, um, being there with whoever walks through the door.

And I actually like the fact that I don't work with a niche.

Some people do, they have like specific clients, but

Yeah,

I like a little bit of that flexibility and helps me learn more too.

Something

Neha and I were talking about earlier this week, Amy, was how.

Like a little bit frustrating it is that the

work.

Just,

ends.

Yes.

And I, I

I, I guess that goes along with,

so much of

what

we,

uh, what we have talked about

so far

on this podcast, this

this idea of like.

being happier is not at all a destination.

It

Right, right.

like always more work to do.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's not really a, an ending point,

so when I was

you about the, about

about podcast

You asked me what my

definition

happiness was Amy and I were talking about

how

it was that,

I

prompted that to her

after.

talking with

and we were

Yes.

Oh

I.

wow.

I'm, I'm curious now for Amy, what, what it was for you

well, at that time, uh, that Hannah and I talked about it, I mean, I stumped.

Um, Which is so funny just considering that we are.

this podcast so I think, I think we both kind of landed on the,

the idea of just feeling content

you guys, you have a point.

You know, everybody remembers a moment in time that they've felt happiness,

but I think a big part of therapy is really going deep, you know, and

understanding, well, what does that mean?

What does that look like?

Where do I feel it in my body?

And so on and so forth.

You can really understand these emotions and yourself on such a,

you know, deep level that you can recognize these things so much better.

And, it is different for every single person.

Um, I also really appreciate the interconnectedness or the

interchangeable of like, content happy, even though we know happiness

to be more of like a state, right?

It's an adjective to describe like a state of pleasure or

contentment, joy, satisfaction.

Um, and it indicates like a positive emotional, uh, state right?

Content then is kind of that ground that you're standing on.

and it's that deeper, deeper peace, inner peace satisfaction that you

fell no matter what's going on.

Um, so I kind of use them interchangeably too, but I, I do

like feeling content in all states.

It's interesting that the root word comes from luck, like having good fortune.

So this is like an old English word, and it meant like that things

were going in your favor and that you were feeling good inside.

Somewhere along the way though, we turned it into a constant kind of emotional

expectation, and I think that might be part of the, the struggle of like

keeping it, that constant happiness, um, that then we actually go the other way.

You're trying to get it so much that you actually don't, right?

The opposite happens.

Um, so yeah, now, you know, it's so differently experienced through

different cultures, different parts of the world, um, but really an

interesting topic to think about and how we can kind of be on that quest.

Yeah.

Maybe not achieving it, but just understanding it better too.

Yeah.

I do

Yeah.

the, what you were just saying, they had this sort of like, It.

almost

It.

like a societal expectation where, oh, you must be happy.

And, uh, and, and,

But then people

necessarily understanding or knowing that that actual happiness is temporary and

not

gonna feel that.

the time.

And

so

now I feel like we should change the title of our podcast.

are we contributing to the misunderstanding of the learning?

I think that's part of the learning is like what we know and what we don't know.

Right.

And it's kind of like in research, you go in thinking, right, you're

gonna be wrong, but you're gonna land somewhere among the stars.

So you guys are doing a great job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

So can we talk more about happiness and, and like you mentioned, cultural

differences and I think that's super important to take a look at because, you

know, we do wanna acknowledge we have our, our lens and that's all we, that

we can really know personally anyway.

So it'd be interesting to hear about more.

Yeah.

So, uh, you were talking about like, the idea of happiness is actually a very,

like, culturally constructed thing.

And what we've been exposed to, especially in the US is a

very specific version of it.

And it feels like if you don't get, you know, the house, the car, the job, um,

especially even for females, oh my God, the pressure is higher than you are.

You must be unhappy, right?

Um.

In a lot of like non-Western cultures, happiness is less about feeling good

internally and more about living right within a system of relationships.

Duty meaning, um, especially relationships, which is one of

the biggest in indicators of, of happiness or contentness.

So in the Western model, we see being happy is maximizing

personal feelings and freedom.

Me, me, me, which is great to a certain extent, but I wonder

then why are we still unhappy?

Right?

Um, and a lot of non-Western models say being well and having a good

balance and a structure in your life.

, Having acceptance meaning, you know, all these things

contribute much more to, to that.

Balance more than just a place you have to be.

'cause it's so changing and we're, you know, not two dimensional.

So there's, there's so many more complexities to it.

Um, so take, take from that.

I, I recently traveled to Costa Rica and, and they say this saying, Pura

Vida, which means pure life, right?

And it feels like they're appreciating like the simple pleasures of life.

Nothing too extravagant or big and just being super present in the moment.

Um, there are, there was a documentary I was remembering, um, called Blue Zones.

It's on Netflix and it talks about the pockets of the world where people live the

longest and like, what's going on there?

Right?

What are they doing?

So a lot of that again, was relationships, physical activity, um, how they know their

neighbors, , faith, maybe even for some.

So there's so many ways to kind of look at it.

And again, understanding that, um, also being happy.

Being happy does not mean that there is an exemption of being sad, right?

Like, you need to live with that and understand like what kind of, how

all of those kind of work together.

Um, so yeah, there, there's so many different cultures and how they

experience and it's cool to kind of be able to expand our minds and

understand like how different people, experience happiness and take from that.

I really find, um, again, speaking with so many people day in and day out, that that

social isolation part, um, is really big.

You know, even if you have a community and nowadays, like an online community

or anything like that, you're just connected more with yourself and then the

world, and it's such a different feeling.

You feel like you're contributing or you're part of something.

And as human beings, like we're social beings, right?

So that part is so innate within us.

And obviously every culture and part of the world has, is its things.

Nothing is perfect, um, but just being connected and yeah, having something

that's a bigger thing than just you, contributes to a lot of wellbeing.

Yeah.

And,

Yeah.

so recently I went to a conference where I got to meet in person with people that

I had only ever interacted with virtually.

And it was really, really cool.

And it was like, on a it, it felt different.

But I also still like, I just,

really knew them really well because we still were able to, um,

build that relationship online.

And so

I think that,

uh, it just reminds me of, I know we were talking about that study that was done by

Harvard and how important it is, like one of the most, uh, the strongest indicator

of a, was it, like, long, long and happy

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is, uh, is Relationships.

right?

That's right.

Belonging.

And so I

I think that,

even if you can't, uh, meet people in person for whatever reason, there's

still opportunities to be happier and, and to connect with others and, and,

and really dig into that relationship

Yeah.

Yeah.

life.

One thing that we talked about was that perma model that you had mentioned.

And I.

know that the r

Mm-hmm.

That's right.

Mm-hmm.

So I was thinking about some models again, that we have that, , in a

fast world we need some acronyms to remember, like, how do I do this?

So Perma, P-E-R-M-A, this is, um, an acronym.

Acronym that, Martin, Seligman, came up with and talks about a lot.

And it stands for positive emotions, but not all the time.

So this is what people mean by happiness.

Um, but it's only one piece, right?

Um, and this is just expanding your emotional range of safety and being able

to express and, notice, like consciously notice the small mo good moments, in life.

It's very important to understand that, by the way, this is a skill,

not like a personality trait.

I was mentioning to you, Hannah, like.

Neurologically, we are trained right in our mind to kind of be negative beings.

And this is through like evolutional, uh, psychology that we are looked to, to

see threats and what's wrong in our life.

So we actually have to train our mind to kind of look at everything that's going

right, right now or, or positive, right?

And so to elicit that, you have to really train your mind.

Some people have it naturally, but most of us have, including me, have to

have to work on it from time to time.

And then the e stands for engagement, which is flow.

This is when you're so absorbed in something that you

kind of lose track of time.

I think of if you've ever watched that Pixar movie, uh.

What's it called?

Soul?

Um, it's this piano.

Yeah, piano teacher.

movie.

such a good movie.

Highly recommend.

But he talks about this flow state that people get into, um, and when they're

in it, they are kind of reaching this level of ecstasy, this happiness, right?

Where they kind of lose track and he compared it a lot to artists

and people who like, you know, play music and there's a point in which

they kind of just lose themself.

Um, and so it's not just about, you know, just being in that state,

but kind of challenging yourself and, um, uh, reducing distractions.

And even if it's for like 30 minutes of doing something creative, put your

phone away and get in that flow state and just express your creativity.

Um, and just I identify activities where you feel yourself, people

do this when they're cooking, chopping, you know, vegetables.

It's therapeutic for them.

They get into a flow state.

Um, others cleaning.

So, you know, no, no judgment here, but kind of using, uh,

that flow state engagement in something is, is really good.

Um.

Are the relationships such a strong predictor?

Um, this is really just investing in, in relationships that offer

a lot of depth to us, right?

People that we really align with.

Um, and you can have like, honest conversations with about anything.

Um, and so, you know, whether it's a, a phone call, a text, a

chat, something, we're not just always in your head all the time.

Um, even therapy is a form of that to a certain extent, right?

It's a, it's a therapeutic relationship, but you're getting your ideas across

and kind of getting them checked out.

Um, so relationships, relationships, relationship, if there's nothing

else to get at it today, right?

Happiness, the biggest predictor of it is relationships.

And I also know the biggest, um, indicator of like the opposite too.

What's gonna be the facet thing to kill your happiness too,

Mm.

we can, yeah.

Yeah,

yeah.

relationships.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And also it's comparison.

Anytime you compare yourself, it is, it kills happiness in like a heartbeat.

yeah.

mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, so really quickly, the rest are m which is meaning, uh, this is

feeling like your life is connected to something bigger than you.

And so you can anchor your life and like values, which can be growth,

family service, spirituality, whatever it might be, and understand like

your role in something that's bigger.

Um, and a is for accomplishment.

So this is mastery of something or progress, um, of achieving goals.

So you wanna set goals that are internally meaningful, not just

socially impressive, right?

There's a lot of externalizing, like our self-worth and, oh, I'm doing

this 'cause it makes me look good or it makes my Instagram look great.

But just for yourself, you know, something that you can kind of get

involved in and feel like, okay, I've really mastered this thing.

Um, because that also helps us with then self-confidence,

self-trust, and so on and so forth.

So, easily just to be able to do any of this, I want you to think

about which part of your life even currently is, uh, imbalanced.

Which part of this perma right needs a little bit more of TLC and you can

kind of do anything in, in that to kind of help it come back to a balance.

So if you're looking at the p write down one specific moment

that you had each night, right?

We talk a lot about gratitude, Hannah, right?

. Again, big indicator of people that are happy, happy people are super grateful.

And I'm not talking gratitude in the sense of like, oh, I'm just grateful.

Right?

What specifically in your day went really well today?

What specific things are you really proud of?

So like pick a, pick a thing, right?

Anything in perma that needs kind of more loving and then go after that.

So that's kind of like some practical ways that you can, find some balance

and stri that back in your life.

I love it.

It starts with yourself, right?

What's your relationship with yourself?

Um, and we have to work on that relationship with ourselves to be happier

because self-trust that quiets inner doubts, it reduces the need for kind

of that external validation and helps us feel more emotionally, um, steady.

So we know that when we trust ourselves, we're more clearheaded.

We make decisions that are more sound, um, and we're just more accepting

of kind of whatever happens to us.

Right.

Um, so there's two parts of this.

One is you're actively being a participant in life and doing what

you can, and then also being able to let go and say, you know what?

Whether it's the universe or whatever, like, this is stuff

I don't have control over.

And once again, finding the balance between the two.

Um, now just curious, uh, grounding yourself, is there anything

that you have found like to be especially helpful in feeling

Yeah, that's a great question, Amy.

I, I really like meditation and I get a lot of pushback sometimes

talking about it in therapy 'cause people are like, I just can't do it.

Right.

I, I am not good at it.

You know, meditation's not for me, but I feel like, we live in a very

noisy world, and for anyone that deals with any sort of anxiety kind of.

Getting up and being plugged in.

Anxiety, A DHD, depression, anything that's not good for our nervous system.

practicing meditation.

And it could be any types of meditation.

Like I said, you could just very presently eat your food, right?

Or wash the dishes or take a walk.

We know it takes about eight to 10 minutes to get into that state.

So you'll notice when you're going on a walk, if you're out there for maybe,

you know, 10 to 15 minutes, it's around that seven to eight minute mark where

your body kind of sinks with nature.

And if you can get into that right, that helps to shut down all the noise.

And so for grounding, and again, greater happiness, to be able to

unplug from our phones work, you know, all the people that need us in

our life, and just give to yourself.

And Sarah, I'm so happy to wake up today.

I know this sounds cliche sometimes, but it's like I have a able body.

It works.

I'm able to like, take care of myself, others around.

Yeah.

There's challenges, but I'm, I'm capable of doing all of this.

Right.

But if I can't kind of ground myself right now in this moment and remind

myself of my goals and what I wanna do today, nothing else is possible.

And so health, this is part of health wellness across cultures.

We found that meditation is a beautiful practice of just exhaling and we need

it 'cause it's so noisy all the time.

Yes.

great.

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

I know, I've given you some statistics, so I don't know if you'll like this part,

but, um, there was a recent research that I, I saw from the University of

California that that kind of broke down on the fact that life circumstances

don't matter as much as we think 50% of happiness is genetic baseline.

10, 10% of it is life circumstance, and then 40% of it is intentional activity.

Um, so people often overestimate things like money status, right?

Life milestones.

But one, human beings are terrible predictors of happiness.

We think something will make us happy.

Um, and then very quickly, there's this word in psychology

called hedonic adaptation.

You'll notice that you get a new baseline.

So you have that new job that you've been kinda working for, and

you think, if I just get this job, I'm going to be 10 times happier.

Maybe, you know, a month into it, you're right back to kind of

your baseline or a new baseline, but it's never really the answer.

So happiness is, is less about kind of like those milestone things and

more about like lifestyle, right?

Um, yeah.

So I thought that was very interesting too.

yeah,

for

that.

who are listening to this episode right

Now.

uh, keep listening to the next episode because, uh, Amy and I sat down with Ian

Payton and he talked exactly about that

Yeah.

So Neha, when you and I.

talked about this episode, we, I I, we kind of came up with three.

Main takeaways that I thought maybe we could talk about that are, have been

really helpful for me and I do think apply really well to this idea of, I think I can

be happier, more content, whatever it is.

And, , so those are the idea of reframing self-compassion and

self-compassion kind of as one.

Cognitive flexibility, which Amy and I as executive function

coaches, we know the magical power

Yes.

cognitive

Mm-hmm.

I would love to talk about that.

And then, uh, and then as, as you know, my word of my word for the

year for myself is self-trust.

so I would love to talk about that too

those are good ones, by the way.

I think they really hit on many different aspects, and I'm so glad

that, again, these are so true for you.

'cause I, I also know how true these are for a lot of different people too.

So we know, as the older we become, the more rigid

the more fixed we become in, in our personalities and the way that

we think, um, and to a certain degree, that's okay, right?

Like, we have fixed dates and then personality traits that are

a little bit more changeable.

But one of the, the things that's maybe not so helpful in

that is, we lose perspective,

and then we think my way is the right way and this is the way it must be.

And anything that goes against this is like questioning my existence, right?

And you get these deep, deep core beliefs that, that we talk about often

that are hard to, to do anything out of because you gotta look at them,

you gotta really understand where they came from and then work to kind of

unlearn what you've learned, right?

And so we know that people who have cognitive flexibility being able to

be adaptable, um, in their day to day, they just have more perspective and

flexibility in the way that they think.

Interestingly, they say everything.

Everything.

Emotional is physical.

And so minds that are like this, right?

Really tight.

That leads to a lot of like chronic illnesses, like autoimmune

disorders and, arthritis.

Right?

And if you think about your bones, right, when they kinda get stuck like that, no

flexibility in the way that we think.

It's really hard, right?

It's a lot easier said than done.

But being able to reframe your situations, your relationships, the

way you're thinking, Hey, I know I just automatically thought that

thought, but let me stop for a second.

Is there any other evidence that can help me think about the situation in

different way that benefits me, right?

Um, or let it go.

I, I say in a funny way, sometimes if things are going wrong, I'm

like, I was scheduled for a bad day.

Bring it on.

And then comes the self-compassion and the laughter, right?

And, and being able to laugh about these situations.

Like, don't take yourself too seriously.

Don't take life too seriously.

Take it seriously at the right moments.

But right.

Like, this is so, press so much pressure that we put on ourselves constantly,

that we don't stop and breathe and kind of relax our shoulders and unclench our

jaws and say, okay, everything is okay.

Right?

And let me try to remain a little bit malleable.

And that's one of the cool things about our brain is it's actually malleable.

We can, we can change the way we think.

We can, audit the content of our thoughts, right?

We don't have to believe everything we think, believe it or not.

And so a lot of this can be passing stuff that you're like, oh, that's a thought.

I don't have to catch it or internalize it, all three of those components I think

are so, so helpful to being able to just look at things on a. Uh, macro level, but

also a micro level, if that makes sense.

And, and daily practices, um, they're hard again in the beginning, but over

time they can also become automatic.

Just like your first thoughts.

I remember I, I don't know if it was our first session or maybe

our second session, but you said.

Uh, we do not have to believe our core beliefs about ourselves,

and that just blew my mind.

I, I remember, I think I cried a lot in that session because I was just like, Wow.

I don't, I don't have to believe these things that I,

say about myself or that I

I believe that I,

of or not capable of.

And, and I think that requires a lot of flexible thinking and a lot

Yeah.

So, and then,

and.

trusting, uh, trusting this current version of ourselves can do the things

that we, um, that we are working on.

believing that, like, not working like

Before we thought.

do them, and

Yeah,

believing we're,

working on

Yeah.

we

Yeah.

That's a stage of that change, that eventually you become empowered, right?

To be, um, steering your own ship, um, or being the driver in your own seat

and saying like, wait a minute, no.

Right?

Like, I don't have to believe this thought that somebody put in my brain,

or somehow my brain came up with through either conscious or subconscious things.

So yeah, to be able to alter that again, superpower a little bit.

Cool.

Also very hard.

You said it earlier, Hannah, you said, why is this so hard?

Right?

And many times you're like, ah.

And I just, I, I feel, and actually this is also backed by research, is people

who are happier or more content also sometimes have more challenging lives.

And think about that for a second, right?

Because you're working so hard to do all of these things, and

sometimes it's easier to sit back and say, Hmm, I don't care, right?

Like, I'm just gonna be this way.

And you don't realize how much you're hurting yourself, but it is

a lot of work to kind of understand yourself on the step and, and unlearn,

relearn, mess up along the way.

Hannah had mentioned, um, we were talking about embarrassment, right?

In one of our sessions, and I said, it's such an underutilized emotion, right?

Because we don't experience it enough to be able to fully understand and you're

always hiding your embarrassment, right?

So yeah, there's a lot of mistakes you make along the way and not

everyone's willing to do that.

So it's actually much more challenging, but it's much more

purposeful in the long run.

then more meaningful too.

yeah.

Yeah.

So Neha thinking about, thinking about as we age, how do we, like, how do

we maintain cognitive flexibility?

Like thinking about, you know, 20, 30 years from now, you know, like,

is there anything that we can do now and along the way to like, to protect

Yeah, I mean I think it kind of goes with exercising any other

muscles in your body, right?

You leave it alone, you lose bone density, you lose your

strength, you lose all of that.

And so to be able to exercise different parts of your brain, having

conversations, listening to podcasts like this, perspectives introducing

yourself to people of all kinds of cultures, um, uh, learning books, you

know, all kinds of things to be able to just inform yourself, going to therapy.

Intent.

Right?

The people we love the most are, are also the most stubborn and

should be in therapy, but don't.

Um, and then the people that you know are, are kind of as a result of it do.

But yeah, you're always kind of remaining challenged in some ways

and being okay with being wrong and being open to, to learning, right?

How many of, uh, people we know are ourselves are like, I, I

don't want to, it's scary, right?

Just be an observer and, and understand it and, and challenge that part.

This is also a very interesting fact, but kind of a sad one.

They did kind of milestone checker according to age of like when you

achieve certain things by, and emotional intelligence, right?

Was on one of them.

And emotional intelligence requires a lot of cognitive

flexibility and things like that.

Do you know what age people really, uh, what's the word?

Kind of conquer emotional intelligence.

And by what age?

You get it.

Close,

Amy.

Oh gosh.

I'd

like

around, you

30.

Okay,

or

cool.

feel

Yeah.

Our, our, our brain fully develops at 26, so that's kind of close.

But emotional intelligence is 82.

Ah

Oh.

Really?

Science is almost there.

Almost there, right.

Many of us don't make it.

But look, think about it.

You have your whole life of an experience, right?

You almost are out the way, out the door, so to speak, and you kind of have this

like years of knowledge and experience to be able to understand like, oh, this,

you know, because I think your twenties, thirties, there's a lot of hustle.

You're getting the degrees, you're getting the job, you're, you're

getting the friendships, right?

Um, but I think there's, there's something to that is that towards

the end of your life, you're really.

Thinking about the things that matter.

'cause you finally can, so it's kind of sad, but knowing that, you know, for

anyone that's competitive like me is like, okay, I'm gonna do this earlier.

You know, I don't wanna wait till 82.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so just keep learning.

Yeah, keep learning, keeping open, keep introducing yourself

to, to new things all the time.

One of my favorite questions to kind of end sessions with, sometimes

it's, when's the last time you did something for the first time and

kind of, you know, you kind of stop.

'cause you're like, when have I, every day starts to feel so mundane.

But how are you learning then?

How are you growing if you're not doing something new?

Can you share some of your favorite strategies with our listeners?

Like I know some of the ones that you've shared with me, I really love, uh,

but maybe you can impart your wisdom.

On our listeners.

Yeah.

I mean, personally, I think one of the things I always do is, uh, simple have

something always to look forward to.

Right.

Um, whether it's a and, and some people can.

Can think of that as like, , the vacation, right?

Yeah, maybe.

But it could also just be like your coffee that you have on

your commute in the morning.

And it could be the best coffee in the world on your commute

that feels like a vacation.

'cause you're listening to your favorite song, right?

You ever like look in your rear view and you see somebody just like belting music

and it's just so quote unquote happy.

That's happy, you know,

you're just free.

But having something on our schedules to always look forward

to is one of my favorite things.

Whether it's big or small because it takes you out of the mundane and

helps you connect with yourself, someone else,, whether it's a

hobby or anything like that.

Um, always kind of be working towards something so you're challenging yourself.

. Gratitude is such a big one.

Again, like I said, whether you take out like a couple moments of your day in the

morning or at night, but our, our brain is always going towards what's going

wrong, and you really wanna train and highlight your brain to say what's going.

Okay.

I think it's really important to, to talk also about toxic positivity.

You ever heard of that?

Yes.

yes,

I think there's a, there's a big culture of that where we're always forcing

happiness down people's throats, right?

And it's toxic to a certain extent where you don't really feel it.

And so I always say like, if you don't, if you're forcing yourself or it's starting

to feel toxic, try to feel neutral.

What do I, what do I feel neutral about?

Right?

A lot of people do this with like, um, body image issues.

So I'm not saying you should love every part of your body, but

what do you feel neutral about?

Right?

What do you feel okay about?

If we look for those things.

You will see a lot more of those things or signs start to produce right?

Start just training, training your mind, um, for that.

So those are kind of some of my favorite ones.

Um, Hannah, you know, I like to table, table thoughts.

That's one of the, my favorite ones is if you have a really sticky thought.

So, a thought that kind of keeps coming up again and again and again.

The more you avoid it, the more it kind of has power over you.

So.

Put it on a table.

And by that what I mean is put the thought on a, a table that you draw.

And we know that a table is held up by four legs, right?

That's how the thought is supported by maybe four pieces of evidence.

So if you have a thought, find four pieces of evidence that's support it,

and I'm sure you'll find it very quickly.

So if the thought is, I'm a loser, tell me four things.

Why, why are you a loser?

And maybe those are really real to you.

But then I want you to go back and cross out each thought and try to

reframe each of those thoughts so that one by one, you're taking the,

the legs of the table away and that that thought is not so strong or

doesn't have that much power over you.

Um, so it's, it's thinking about your thinking called metacognition.

Yeah.

What also cog cognitive flexibility and metacognition.

they're, there's just, I mean, you can't, you literally

Yeah.

in your life if you, if you don't practice those two skills

Hundred percent.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

speaking of, of EF skills, I wanna go back a little bit to

what you were saying about, having something to look forward to.

And it made me think of some, uh, Like

Like a really practical way to make sure that,

happens is

to literally mm-hmm.

it, like you said, to have it on your schedule.

And

Yeah.

thinking, you know, if you say you finally make that coffee date with

a friend and you actually go and nobody has to cancel While you're

you're there.

Schedule.

one and put it

Yes.

and so, and just it, that's like you have to be, so you mentioned intention before,

Yeah.

do have to be so intentional about

Mm-hmm.

'cause life, Yeah, life gets busy and it's so much easier to be like,

oh, I'll just do it next time.

I, I can like be happier some other day.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true.

Yeah.

And it, it is fleeing, right?

Like we know happiness is something that comes and goes and so does

all the rest of our emotions.

So it is a temporary state too.

But again, it feels nice, right?

To be in it for however long we can be in.

Um, and so sharing that happiness, um, again, that's, that's a great

way too of you feeling happy.

Share it with the people around you that, that will just make you feel even

greater or, or do a charitable act where it feels and means something to you,

but always kind of associated with some kind of practicality or an activity.

Don't just think it do it, right?

It's not the state of happy is in an, in the action itself

so follow it with some, some kind of action that you do.

And many of us put the plans on and then we wanna cancel 'em.

Do it anyway.

Yeah,

yourself to do it.

It

me

yes.

another strategy that I have really benefited from in our con from our

conversations is the idea of when you feel the discomfort of maybe something

new or something that you're unsure of.

You know, you, you can do it.

Mm-hmm.

you are actually capable of the thing, to try to push through and, and do it, and

use, use the tools and the strategies or the people that you have in your life to.

Push through and learn how I can tolerate that, I can do that.

And then you said, it's emotional and physical, like

you might physically feel it.

When you can manage the emotions and get yourself through it, then your body will

be like, oh, this isn't actually so bad.

So it's kind of like, feel so terrible next time.

That's a really good question to ask yourself, am I unhappy

or am I uncomfortable?

Right.

And usually it, it's, you're fearful, you're uncomfortable with whatever

feeling is coming up, and you haven't really quite sat with it.

And, and those feelings are asked to be, you know, sat with.

That's why we, we do in therapy a lot is like, no, sit with it, get to learn it.

Don't be so afraid of it.

Um, and then Hannah, I think you're talking about the, the zones of growth,

we start with the comfort zone and then we get to the fear zone, which

is the, the part that scares us.

And most of us, when we get to the fear zone, we go right back to comfort zone.

We're like, Nope.

Too hard, too uncomfortable.

I don't like this feeling.

Let's go back however.

Those of us that, that all of us, I believe that can, right?

If you keep tiptoeing a little bit past fear zone is the learning zone.

This is now where you kind of have put your emotions at bay and you're

really just focusing on the new skill that you're learning and you're

past the embarrassment of things and you're acquiring something new.

Now you keep going past the learning zone.

Now you're in the growth zone.

So if you can kind of mentally understand this model, what is it saying?

Everything you want is sitting on the other side of fear.

But if we keep living in comfort and fear, how are we ever going

to tolerate the discomfort?

How are we ever going to grow?

Right?

And the more you kind of get this equation in your head, the next time you're doing

something that's super hard or humbling, you'll like, oh yeah, I just have to be

really bad at it the first hundred times.

But then it'll click and it'll get easier and better.

What do you think about that, Amy?

I mean, Hannah, I like, as Neha was describing that.

I mean,

about

About,

how you've really helped push me outside of my comfort zone in so many ways.

Um, which I know we've talked about a lot before, but yeah, I, there's

so many experiences I can, I can recall that, I'm so grateful for.

But yeah, there's some discomfort initially and it feels pretty great

being on the other side of that, you know, knowing that, that I can push

yeah.

so,

Such a mental game too.

'cause once you are on that side, you're like, why didn't I do this earlier?

What was I so scared of?

Right.

I love when we can just call out things that, you know, you wanna hide

it, but when you call it out, no one can make fun of it for you about it.

Right.

You're like, yeah, I'm scared.

Yeah.

I don't know anything.

Yeah.

I might mess up.

Which again, is that, that confidence and self-trust within yourself

that I don't know everything.

And also what you were just saying reminds me of that,

the, uh, the name it to tame it

Mm-hmm.

and how,

you name your emotion, not only are you moving yourself out of your emotional

part of your brain and into the thinking part of your brain, but You

You also,

taking away its power a little bit

it

Yeah.

also you're telling everybody, like you

Right.

right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Percent agree.

Something the

were talking about the other

other day

You prompted me a

a question

do I need to do to move forward?

Or what do I, or what do I do need to do moving forward?

Like from this point on, and

something that Amy

about before is like how executive,

function coaching is very like forward thinking work, right?

Like, we're like, okay, like what, what are we gonna try next?

What are these future goals and everything?

And I, and so I

so I like that question.

What do

What do I need right now?

I move

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like when you ask that of someone, usually they know, you know,

like all the Bs, all the, the words and everything aside, it's like, I

need rest, I need sleep, or I need a moment, I need a shower, I need to eat.

And we quickly kind of figure out, okay, what are those

things that we need right now.

And you do that, usually the rest kind of falls in place.

Yeah, right before we got on, Amy and I were talking about, um, Amy was saying,

Hannah, I really need to wash my hair.

And, and I said, oh, that was me this morning.

So instead of going

I took a nap and washed my hair.

Look at that.

Self care at, at its best, right?

Yeah.

So this morning in a um, someone mentioned the rain tool, RAIN.

And

have to admit that

would've

that

one from

one for So, um, I, I'm curious if you know, if Neha, if that's one that you're

familiar with and if you can share

that

what that.

for our

I mean, I, I think I kind of touched on some of these things,

which is kind of thinking about the way you're thinking, right?

And this acronyms just like Perma are really good to just help us have a

starting point and an ending point.

Um, so stands for recognize, accept, investigate, and then nurture, right?

Um, recognition once again is kind of like, you can do a body scan.

You can kind of understand what's going on with me right now in this present moment.

What's the event itself?

Where am I feeling this, you know, in, in my body?

What are my thoughts around it?

Kind of just recognize what's going on with you, except as an interesting one,

because I think a lot, there's always a pushback of like, but I don't accept this.

Right?

Or there's anger around it.

Acceptance, accepting something doesn't always, equal approving something, right?

So what that means is I can accept that I'm sitting in traffic.

I don't have to agree with it.

Right?

So you just kind of accepting what is.

Very logically, black and white investigate.

I think that's the key right there is kind of, um, looking for other perspectives.

Maybe where am I?

Right, where did I get it right?

Where am I getting it?

Kind of a little maybe wrong or questionable?

And do I have all perspectives?

Do I need to talk to someone else to kind of figure out what's going on?

And then nurture Yeah, like kind of saying earlier of what do you need right now?

Because this allows us to not just sit and be stuck with our thoughts

and feelings and know where for it to go, but an action plan.

Keep talking about, putting things into action to move forward.

Um, emotions by itself are information.

Happiness is information, sadness, anger, it's all information about,

what's going on with our mental state.

And to be able to know what to do about it is kind of the, the next step.

So I think rain is a good one.

And any of these really to kind of think about the starting points.

Um, and a great mindfulness practice too, of letting, letting things go, accepting

without agreeing with it all the time.

At the end of the day, just yeah, um, have giving it a space really.

'cause the more you avoid stuff, the bigger it really becomes, doesn't it?

Rather than just sit with it, understand it, take the power away,

um, and recognize what it is that you need to do moving forward.

When you listen to yourself, you trust yourself hopefully

to know, all right, I got this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Yeah.

That's so helpful.

yeah.

I love that.

It's, it's a good one.

I feel like it's, all of these are really, again, good to kind

of just check in with ourselves.

They're good.

Check in marks, um, easy journal prompts, beginning or end of the night.

I love to do journals like at the end of the night where I can just empty

out my thoughts and really just let go of whatever it is, plan for certain

things and then actually get some rest.

So my brain is not active and alive.

Um, but yeah, whatever works for each person.

And that's the cool thing about coping skills is it's so unique to every

person and it's also always evolving.

So you gotta have a couple of 'em, if one is not working, um, but do what

works for you and try these things out.

You're only gonna find out once you try, you know what works for you.

right.

And something that we share in coaching sessions all the

time is that you have to try

Mm-hmm.

than once

Mm-hmm.

you can't.

Expect things to just work magically without that practice,

but also, also to, uh, and recognize

Mm-hmm.

it's hard to do that.

But if you don't try it all, then you

Yeah.

maybe you're not ready.

And that's the recognition, right?

Because readiness is so important.

Um, many of us know what to do, but we're just not ready to do it.

And it's important to recognize that too.

This, this is requiring a lot of me right now.

Maybe I'm not ready right now, or what is it that's really holding me back?

So that is also part of that recognition readiness.

Am reading this book right now it's called The Wedding People.

And, uh, the, the woman in it was sharing something that her dad had said to

her, and it was when she was, depressed and the dad said, okay, if you're

Not capable.

that thing right now, whatever that is, what can you do?

What is something that you can do?

So maybe you can't get up and take a shower, but maybe you

can get up and change your socks

Right.

thought that was like a

Yeah.

prompt, like, well, what can I do?

That's amazing.

Yeah.

it is just one foot in front of the other.

We have to understand our capacity.

Each person has a different threshold, different capacity for things.

Even even happiness.

Everyone has a different capacity for experiencing the, that emotion too.

Um, but yeah, really, really being able to see what can I control in this

moment and letting go what I can't.

Starting small, gradual.

These things might sound overwhelming, but again, it's more about, you know, the,

the little things, the, the 1% change.

Do you have anything else you wanna add that we didn't cover?

Any words of wisdom?

Can I ask you guys, when's the last time you felt really happy?

I was at a wedding on Saturday and I got to be, um, with my husband's

family and it was really fun.

And there was like a tinge of, uh, not sadness, but my

daughter wasn't able to be there.

She was at another thing, but I was also like super happy for her that

she got to be at this other thing.

So Yeah.

those emotions are so complicated.

You're always feeling multiple things at the same time, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

yeah.

love that.

yeah, I would say, um, I mean, today Hannah knows that, yeah, this week has

been, we've had some challenges this week.

Um, but, you know, very happy this afternoon.

My, my son came home kind of unexpectedly, um, for, from just a few days from

college, um, for a long weekend just got some time with him, took him to

lunch, and that was just, it, it really, um, just kind of like changed my whole

day, just having that little bit of

Oh,

with him.

I love that.

That's amazing.

Surprises are the best when you're not expecting them.

Yeah.

about you, Neha?

Um, okay.

So I think, um, most people know I, I have a son who is about a year and a half and

he has a lot of energy there, but, um.

I think, uh, I, I like cuddling with him a lot and that just, I think because he's

so innocent and pure, I can have what kind of day, whatever kind of day, and

just to know that he's there and he loves me and I'm his mama and you know, I'm

his everything and I can just hold and like, you know, even though I'm losing

sleep and all of that, and I'm sure you guys remember maybe right, those times

of just raising, it's just, it's so hard.

Like you said, Hannah, there's multiple emotions, but just holding

him and, and sleeping with him at night, like, I feel so happy.

Like I, I did something I, I accomplished.

This is my biggest accomplishment today if I didn't do anything right, is get

his love and be able to love him back.

So, yeah.

That's awesome.

Um, all right, I have one more question for you that, 'cause I love that and

it's, it's actually what you asked us earlier or what you've said earlier.

When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Oh, okay.

I like to do a lot of firsts, believe it or not, because I

like to practice what I preach.

Um, but this winter I really got into skiing and it's a, if, if anyone's

anyone wants to understand their mental health, do something like skiing.

'cause you will very quickly find out how much you want control, how anxiety

producing it is to go down a mountain when you have no skill and like truly learn

to let go and trying something new and be so humbled with how much you're falling.

And it's devastating.

It hurts it.

Nothing about the beginning is fun, but I was really challenged to be like,

you know what I, I see these like.

2-year-old zooming by me, what's different, right?

Like, why can't I do something hard?

Um, and it was, it's a, it's a new hard thing.

And so I, I really started practicing almost like every other weekend and, and

going a lot to the mountains and just kind of experiencing all of that in the

views and, and I, I got it eventually, so not too long ago with, with my family,

I went to Banff and we went down the mountains of Banff, which is in like

Calgary area in, in, in, uh, Canada.

But, um, I, I practiced learning a new skill, right?

And, and really being bad at it in the beginning and kind of going through

all the stages, but then eventually coming to understand like, wow, this,

you know, I don't have to be the best, I'm not trying to be the next Olympic

athlete over here, but this is helping me connect with my family and allowing me

to try something new for the first time.

Um, and it's beautiful, right?

Like, this is, everyone hates winter, but I've found a reason to love it.

So.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

pushed past that stage.

I just went to the, I'm a half day skier stage And then just spend the

And sometimes that's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

hard.

The last time I tried something new.

Well, you're, you're hearing it right now, because I think that was

what, maybe two weeks ago or so?

Whenever we did our first, um, our first episode, so, yeah.

Yeah.

Nice

so yeah.

That's exciting.

Um, Hannah, how about you?

Yeah, my

I first, I

presented at a

at a conference.

the

Oh, yeah.

last

Yeah.

ago.

And, uh, it was great.

I, I really enjoyed it.

I loved it.

And I, Even

though it was

a new

a thing that I had done before

I, I wasn't nervous, I

I was excited and I think I was,

actually nervous, but I

I

after reading the upside of

stressed and realizing.

you know, how important it is.

To me, to, uh, you know, to pay attention to how stress impacts me.

I decided to continually tell myself, you're actually just

super excited about this.

'cause this is a really awesome act, um, opportunity.

And so many

Thanks to the

at the

Neuro Diversion conference for allowing me to speak and lead an activity.

And it was, it was really fun.

So,

That's

I. I remember talking to you about that, Hannah.

I was like, I, anxiety and excitement.

Right?

They're the same kind of pathway in your brain, but it's what you

label it as is what happens, right?

It's the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the second I started talking, I was like, ah, ah,

You got this right.

Yeah.

Yep.

Um, yeah.

So we normally end every episode with, uh, some, some, uh, a question, but I,

I don't know, Amy, do, do you feel like we, we need to, I feel like we might

have new questions that we should ask

I know, I know.

Yeah.

know.

I, I like the, um, the, you know, last time we tried something new I love that.

So

we can have a rotation,

yeah,

that's a good

So we normally ask like,

we call it what's real for us this week.

So like, something that's been hard, something that, uh, we're working on or

something that we're looking forward to.

So,

mm, that's a good one.

Yeah,

Yeah.

But, um, I don't know.

Yeah,

I think we, I think we kind of covered all of

yeah,

yeah.

yeah,

with those other questions,

No, I'm really, really like just hearing both of you.

Yeah.

I was just thinking in, in a world where we just try so hard to be

someone something else, right?

Like you need to be exactly you and with your quirks and all the

things and the first times, right?

Like, this is what I would want as a listener is just the real version of you.

And I think that's the ultimate coming to, you know, whether it's happiness

or contentment is like, there's.

Just one of me and the history of the world would literally be

incomplete without you and be you.

Right?

Like be you.

And that is like once you kind of have that relationship with

yourself, whether it takes 30 years or 82, hopefully earlier.

But I, I think that is the ultimate freedom is yeah, this is me, right?

I come with all the bells and whistles and I'm this chaotic mess at times.

And yeah, I'm okay with that, that, that's happiness too.

So thank you guys for being yourself too.

This has made it it so much easier and I appreciate that a lot.

And just being a woman too, I think that's a lot to look up to.

Yeah.

Thank

Thank you so much.

Yes.

right.

Probably our first goal

Mm-hmm.

of doing

absolutely.

Yeah.

length about was how we really wanted to come to it that way, so

Being relatable.

Love it.

Yeah.

All right, so before we go, Neha, will you share, uh, with our guests, uh, where

they can find you if they are interested in maybe, I don't know, talking to you

more, asking you some questions, wanna know more about something you mentioned.

Absolutely.

So again, as a therapist, I have my own private practice and you

can find me on Psychology Today.

I currently practice in the state of Connecticut.

Just type in my name, that's NEHA, last name Amir, A-A-M-I-R.

Um, and you can send an inquiry, send a phone number, a text.

I'm always happy to to chat about any questions.

Um, sometimes people also are nervous, like what they expect, so like

I'm happy to do a consult as well.

But yeah, reach out if you ever need.

Alright.

Hannah Neha is amazing.

I. I so loved hearing just all of the information that she

shared, especially the strategies.

Um, really, really loved hearing from her on that.

Um, yeah.

What was it like for you having your therapist on having that

conversation with her here?

it was so great.

I just felt such peace and calm the whole time we were talking, and it was

really cool to hear her share all these strategies and things that she knows in.

Um, in a more like broad and general application that will be useful for lots

of people as opposed to like in a session

and so it was really cool and very.

I, I'm not really sure what the right adjective

Yeah,

really enjoyed that experience,

yeah,

yeah, I

yeah.

it.

I'm so, I'm so glad that she said yes, and, and she just has so many

interesting things to say and,

Yes.

had said to you before that I, I just wanna say again, was like, she's, she

remembers so much, and you and I, Amy have talked about like how nice it

would be to actually have a memory.

To remember

Yes,

every once in a while

yes.

and, um, and so to hear her, I mean like in our sessions all the

time, she just like spouts off stuff and it's, it's just so cool.

She can just pull it from somewhere in her brain and it's very

useful to have in a therapist.

Yeah, I, I bet, I bet.

Yeah.

That was amazing.

Yeah.

So anyway, I hope you guys, uh, you know, learn something from Neha and, uh, and

just, and if, and if you've considered therapy and you, but you haven't, uh,

reached out yet to someone to find someone, I really encourage you to to ask

around or to look on psychology today.

And, and also if you try a therapist and it doesn't.

Quite feel right.

I do really believe that we know the very first time we meet with someone

if it's gonna be a good fit or not.

And so, if you've tried someone and you weren't really sure

about it, then it's okay.

It's okay to not go back to them.

Therapists are used to that.

They're used to people breaking up with them or they're used

to people not coming back.

And it's part of the job is to be okay with that.

Yes, thank.

Oh, wait.

No, we have to do the Um,

The end thing.

Oh,

yeah.

we're gonna

Thanks for listening.

one.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, Hannah, I totally agree with that.

Um, really, really important to note that you are, I'm sorry.

Okay.

just need, I need to stop talking.

Yes, Hannah.

I totally agree with you on that.

Thank you so much for listening everyone.

Oh.

Thank you for listening today.

Amy's really tired, so I'll get a takeover.

All right, check out the show notes for more information.

And just a reminder that this podcast is not a substitute

for professional mental health.

Please take care of yourself and reach out.

Oh, wait a second.

Just a reminder that this podcast is not a substitute for

professional mental health support.

Please take care of yourself and listen to yourself like we were just talking about.

What do you need?

And reach out to a qualified licensed provider for help and reach out to us.

We'd love to hear from you.

From now.

For now, you can email us at I Can Be happier@gmail.com or visit our brand Spank

Anew website at I can Be happier.com.

And we are still working on socials, but we're not there yet.

Like we said, we're people in progress, right, Amy?

Absolutely.

Yes.

Yes.

All right.

right.

We'll be back with listening.

Thanks everyone.

Don't fire me.

Okay, hold on.

All right.

Thanks, Hannah.

Now let's get back to our interview.

But we didn't... But you're saying get back to

Oh,

done it yet.

shoot.

Get on, get on, get on with the interview.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Oh, I got