This week, I'm joined by Rebecca Dixon and Laura Deutsch, Co-Founders of the*gameHERs! We discuss people's natural tendency towards community, how app creation is not only a space for games but for community building, and that inclusivity requires adapting and changing based on feedback. We also discuss the blurry lines around who is and isn't a gamer, and the opportunities we have in building the Metaverse ground up in a way that prioritizes safety for all people who interact with the tech.

Episode Resources:

https://thegamehers.com/

https://www.thegamehersapp.com/

Welcome to the meta woman podcast we address the

issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

female talent and business executives operating in the

gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

boss poss the metal woman podcast starts now.

Hello, and welcome to the metal woman podcast part

of the holiday Commedia Podcast Network. I'm your host Lindsey,

the boss path from struggle to success. We're covering it all.

To our returning listeners. Thank you so much for supporting

the show. And for any new listeners. Welcome. I hope you

enjoy. We have some great guests this week. This is someone these

are people that I'm very excited to introduce. Because when I got

started in this space, I kept hearing wonderful things about

this organization and just gotten so many tips. You got to

meet them, you got to meet them. And I was lucky enough that one

of these people actually reached out to me first, which was so

kind. I'm so excited to introduce Rebecca Dixon and

Laura Duke and my thing. So I, okay, I, I always do this thing

where I write the names and then immediately in the intro, I'm

like, Oh my God, I've never said this out loud. Anyways, Rebecca

and Laura are co founders of the game hers. Welcome to the show

you guys. I'm so excited to have you both. To start over. Just

give the audience couple sentences to your background.

I'd love to hear your stories.

Sure. My name is Rebecca Dixon. I'm one of the

cofounders of the game hers along with Laura. And we have

two other co founders Berta Maloney and Heather Alita. And

we have we launched our company, March of 2020, the same week

that COVID Shut the country down. And we have been really

thrilled to be in the gaming space since then, doing

everything we can to create community for women and femme

identifying gamers. So I will leave it at that. And Lauren

introduce herself,

though. Hello, everyone. I'm Laura Doyle. And as Rebecca

said, we launched in March of 2020, Rebecca, Heather and I are

no strangers we've been in business together, then you 1009

Our other business, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point.

But basically, we are community builders, and we're so happy for

the game.

Just to lay the groundwork for this episode even

a little more. Can you all tell me what motivated you to start

the game? Here's why gaming, maybe a little bit of what you

were doing before that brought you into this space. Just kind

of lay the groundwork for the rest of the conversation.

Sure. Laura, do you want to talk about why how we

learned about building community first, and then I can I can

segue in

that. That's perfect. So as I just previously stated in 2006,

a long time ago, I had a newborn baby. And I found it difficult

to meet other women, I didn't feel like I had a community. So

I created a a company to do that. And it was called mommy

bites. It was in New York City. It started very grassroots. And

it quickly grew and became national and became one of the

biggest communities for women with babies. And that is how

Heather Alita and Rebecca Dixon came into the story. And we all

work together and build up this community together. So that that

is what we do best. We know how to, you know, create communities

and make people feel welcome. And we. And then I will segue

now to let Rebecca say how we got into the gaming space

because that was more on

her end. Sure. So I joined Laura and Heather. My personal

background is in media buying and advertising. So I've worked

with brands, alongside of communities for my whole career.

And I joined Laura and Heather mommy bites, because they were

getting inundated with brands who wanted to work with them.

And we were lucky enough to be in a position a few years after

that, to sell the company. And so having sold the company, we

were entrepreneurs at heart, and we found ourselves with some

pretty strong adjacencies to the gaming space. Very briefly, my

family is involved in the ownership group of Team NV. So I

had been watching esports from the sidelines and this was back

in 2016. At the beginning of 2016 is when we sold our company

so I started paying more attention to it. You know, I had

a little more time on my hands. And esports was a not a word. I

think that everyone in the world knew at that time now I would

say it's pretty pretty well known But I was fascinated by

the size of the gaming industry by how quickly it was growing.

And by the often quoted statistic that women were half

of gamers. So that's where I sat. Totally coincidentally,

Heather, one of our other co founders, she went from

parenting to toys, and was working with Alcon the visionary

behind Pokemon, and doing some licensing and business

development work with him. And she started noticing the same

thing, like, where are these 50% of women? Because while we

haven't been in the gaming space before this, it certainly

doesn't seem that there are 50% are there, you know, they don't,

doesn't feel like that in the in the press, and then the general

way you envision gamers. And so along with Laura, we kind of got

the gang back together and did a deep dive into into this space.

And we found that, yep, it's pretty true. Women are about

half of gamers and you know, you can, you can analyze it a

variety of different ways. But certainly women represent a much

larger portion of the gaming community and of the gaming

industry that is represented. And and there are some parts of

it, where they could be represented a little more, we

found a lot of great people in this space, working very hard to

sort of change that narrative. Many nonprofits who we love

working with to this day, and many Super Star women speaking

on panels and trying to do create pipelines. But what we

didn't find was what we felt like we could bring to the

table, which is community building, we, as Laura said,

have had experience doing that successfully. And so, so we did

it, and we knew that we wouldn't be able to do it, you know,

force, the situation that exist around women in gaming is only

amplified when you layer on women from identifying all of

the marginalized communities in the gaming space. So our fourth

co founder verta, Maloney, has a career of really deep experience

in dei V work. She has done audits and has worked with a lot

of nonprofits, a lot of universities, a whole host of

other organizations. And so along with verta, she's also an

excellent community community builder, we launched the

business, and we've been just having a great time ever since.

I didn't realize that you all had transitioned

from one company to another, I think that's the in a world

where Marvel is the most powerful movie franchise, that's

kind of that's a really need origin story, to have to have

your team be able to shift focus from, from one very unique

community just straight into another unique community.

That's, that's really neat. And I like that you all sort of

found a niche in both. I think one of the hard parts about

getting into gaming is that there's so many things out there

so many people. And it's the same thing with with, you know,

parents and adults, there's so many ways to get involved. I

think that it's important to carve out spaces where specific

people are kind of catered to or specific groups are thought

about.

I think that's what it is. I just had this amazing

experience this morning, my kids school opened up an event that

we as parents haven't been allowed to go to in two years

because of COVID. And it was so heartwarming, I was actually in

tears the whole time. And because human beings are made to

be parts of communities, you know, we want to be, we want to

be around people that we can relate to. And so while

parenting and get the gaming space might seem super

unrelated, the as groups there that that need for our

community, I think is not is not that different. And it's exactly

what Laura identified in her that founded mommy bites.

Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense to me.

And speaking of these community events, and things, I know that

you all have kind of two main or larger programs that you focus

on. There's the awards show and the dream stream, which as we

are recording is happening. But I think once this podcast is

released, it may be over with, which is a little bit

unfortunate, because I wish we could advertise that for right

now. But everyone makes sure to mark your calendars for the

Dream stream next year. But could you all just describe

those two programs, what you hope to accomplish with them and

how you've seen them grow since you started in 20? In early

2020, you know, that's a we've only had about two years now,

but that I still have I still would wager a bet that things

have changed since then.

Yeah, absolutely. So I really believe that our story as

the gamers really started with the gamer award. They are the

heart and soul of who we are as unity So, you know, obviously,

when we started this, we wanted to create a place for women that

identify and gamers to connect and feel comfortable and feel

safe, and feel included. And that's, that's our original,

that is our mission. But then we thought what, not just let's

create a space for them to feel safe, let's highlight them and

make them feel special and, and honor them for all the

incredible work that they are doing in gaming, which is how we

came up with the gamers award. So in November of 2020, was our

first one started with about 20 categories of awards. And it, it

really, it just, it really resonated, and it kind of put us

on the map and helped us really take off as a company. People

just were so honored and pleased and excited to actually, you

know, be recognized and celebrated for all that they

have been doing all this time. And it's the first award show

that was really created for women by women. There's other

awards programs out there. Um, but they're, they're very, you

know, mask heavy. And this was the first time that we were able

to do this for for our community. I will let Rebecca

add on to that. And and also continue with.

Sure, yeah, so when the awards ended the first year, we were so

blown away by the response that we got, I mean, quite literally,

we were blown away. And then they ended. And then we were

like what, what do we do now? We wanted to continue them. And we

also wanted to stay true to our mission that Laura just talked

about, yes, community building, but also providing or, you know,

trying to create opportunities that would provide some exposure

for women. So we basically invited the finalists, winners

and some of the nominees of the awards to stream on our Twitch.

And so they did and they were, were and are the true stream,

like you mentioned is current. They were we they were really

excited to do it. And we were really excited to kind of

continue that momentum. So the dream stream is also like the

it's kind of the post awards celebration. But I want to, I

want to make sure to share that if it when this podcast airs, if

the dream stream is over, luckily, we're they're actually

not going to think we have we have a ton of other stuff, both

coming up on our calendar it in sort of like the community side

of the of our business that's kind of on our on all of our

platforms, our media platforms. And so I'll share a little bit

about the one that's probably this the soonest. And then we

also just launched an app. And that's what Laura can can talk

to you about in detail because she led our app, but that one of

the events that we have coming up in the date hasn't been

confirmed, but it will be soon is a professional career boot

camp. And it's an opportunity where we have women from the

industry, along with anybody, but generally probably

collegiate women and women who are looking to get into the

space. And so we sit at this really amazing and sort of

fortunate intersection of having a community and being accessible

to women in the industry who really feel passionate about

providing opportunities. So that weekend is full of mentorships

one on one mentorship with really big superstars in the

industry panels, opportunities for collegiate women to stream

networking events. Last year, it was all virtual, it will still

be primarily virtual, mostly because we want it to be

available. But we have some in person events. And we're just

we're super excited for that. We're in a in a position. Now

last year we did primarily have with word stream stream

bootcamp. But with more and more we're adding as much as we sort

of have the capacity to add to our calendar, because the more

we can kind of program, the more community we can build. That's

so great.

I feel as if I should thank you as a host,

because you've made this transition very easy. So I

appreciate that if you ever wanted to host a podcast, and to

do it. And if if my job. If you want to have my job, feel free

to take it over because you mentioned the app. So I

definitely want to get into talking about the app. I know

you all just recently launched it. I would love to hear what

you're hoping to do with it, how it fits into the overall

mission, how these events are going to be incorporated into

the app, all of that good stuff.

Yeah, yeah. So we We as for co founders knew right from

the start that we were going to have an app. If we wanted to be

in business a little while to hear from our community, because

the one thing that was really important to us was not to get,

we didn't want to guess what people wanted. We wanted back,

we wanted to hear from our community and see what they want

it. And once you know, we really got the the picture that women

just wanted to meet. Again, it's our mission other women in a

safe and inclusive space, to chat, to game to talk about

things. But the most interesting part that we realized is that,

you know, gamers are have way more interested in just gaming,

believe it or not, they love their pets. They love to read,

they love their podcasts, they love to cook. And they want to

talk about that, too. So we looked around. And while there

are other communities where you can come together as gamers,

they're very heavily gaming focused, which is wonderful. But

there wasn't the place to have kind of a balance of gaming, and

other and so that's how we created the the gamers app. And

with the surveys we did with our community, they helped us to

pick which groups in our app people can be a part of. So

again, we do have tons of groups about gaming, such as streaming

careers in gaming, cosplay, lots of gaming related topic. But we

also have just as many non gaming related topics, like pet

love and culinary corner, and just lots of great, great, fun

stuff. And I think that was the magic potion that really made

our app, a truly unique place right from the start. It we, we,

when we launched, we launched with about 75 ambassadors. And

these were our, these were people who were really devoted

and what really helped us to create this app. And they, they

were modeled behavior modelers, they came in, and they showed

the community what we're all about. And they are such

incredible women, and they're compassionate, and they're

friendly. And they're welcoming, and accepting and caring. And

these were the people that were leading the beta program of our

app. So when other people started coming into our app, as

we were letting more people into the beta, they just couldn't

believe how friendly it was, and how welcoming and how at ease,

they felt the moment they came in to the app. And I think that

was the the magic potion that just kind of created this

community that's truly unlike any other out there. I mean, you

should hear some of these betas, women were saying like, you

know, wow, we finally feel like we're home. And this is just,

like, a unique place then. So we're really just thrilled with

how, you know, we only launched a few months ago. Um, but what's

important to us is to continue listening to our community, we

constantly are doing surveys. And we're so excited for our new

iterations of the app that are coming. And, and, and yes, so

it's just been quite a wild, wild ride and experience. So let

me ask

you why you chose to go the app route. And the

reason why I'm asking that is because we do have things like

discord or Facebook groups in terms of bringing together

community. There's obviously limitations. But I'm wondering

what you all saw, that wasn't being offered in those platforms

that made you want to develop your own platform entirely new

space? Yeah. What are those gaps that you wanted to address?

So there, there were definitely that. When you if you

go to the App Store or the Google Play store, and you

Google like communities for gamers, there are a bunch out

there. But we found again, they were very male centric, very

hardcore with with lots of masculine energy, which is fine,

but we didn't see the other side of it. So the so apt, we wanted

a place where people can go on their phone at any moment all

the time, right. So that's what prompted us to look well what

apps are out there. And then we also know Discord is huge in the

gaming community and from the you know, polls that we've done.

We've you know, as Wonderful and incredible as discord has been

for the gaming community, it can also be quite overwhelming and a

little confusing. And that's what we that was the feedback,

we got a little intimidating to come into a discord when you

haven't been there and people know each other, they just so

between those two things of the major communication, Discord

app, you know, in the feedback we got from women, as well as

the apps, the social networking apps that were out there are so

gaming focused again, which is wonderful, but we didn't find

the in between. And that's that that was the that was the aha

moment. We need a gaming focused app, social networking,

welcoming, safe, inclusive, that when people come in, they feel

at home, but they're not just talking about their game. They

love talking about their games, but there's other stuff there.

So that's where we found our niche. And, and it we were spot

on with that. And yeah, so that's how it kind of all came

together.

You know, or, else I know that I have heard you talk about enough

people in our community on that topic is, and by the way, we

have a discord community that is wonderful. And it acts like

discord communities are and it's incredible. We obviously

couldn't be in the gaming space without having a relevant for

community. But I do think that discord, for the most part, it

it's a little bit of what Loris it is what Laura said. And to

add to that, it wasn't necessarily meant just to go on

and join and just find a group, it's like, it's the group where

the people, you know, this game has as a distributor, this event

or whatever. And so just for women in gaming and chatting

about all the stuff Laura was just talking about. And then the

other thing is the security in discord and blocking people you

don't want to see, that was kind of a lot and an RF you don't

have to be you don't have to see people if you have an issue with

its user base blocking, basically, and we really haven't

had that problem very much anyway.

So to add to that safety level, Rebecca, that's so true. Um,

there have been, you know, people who, quite frankly, our

get stopped on Discord. So safety was a huge, huge part of

our development. And what we have done was any person in our

app has the ability to block any other user. And when they do

that, if they block the user, then they will never see any of

the comments or anything that that user. So it's literally

like that user is erased from our community. Because what we

found is that sometimes you can block someone from a community,

but they'll just find their way back end. And this was a was a

great way to make people feel safe. But to Rebecca's point, we

haven't had to block any yet. So we you know, we wanted to have

that in place, just in case. But it's been a few months now and

not in it's just been really right.

This has been a theme that I've noticed,

throughout as I've had more of these conversations and done

more of these podcasts. And it just, it seems to be much easier

to build something from the ground up than it is to adapt a

tool that maybe already has some implicit rules against it. And

that is where I think that you have a huge advantage in

building your own app. Because things like safety or moderated

conversations or all of that. You're not constantly trying to

all these other platforms, right Twitter, Facebook, Discord, all

social media, they were a lot of them were built 10 years ago,

and now they're having to figure out how to adapt. Whereas

building something right now today, with these rules in

place, doesn't mean that there's any implicit thought towards

Well, I got away with this before, but I can't now kind of

thing. And I've I've noticed that throughout the gaming

community, and even with games themselves, that way easier for

valorant to stop toxic culture than it has been for League of

Legends, which has been around for so long. And has that just

baked in, at this point. The whole starting something versus

adapting what's already there seems to be the starting

something and seems to be where a lot of a lot of women or

groups that are working with minorities are tending to thrive

at the moment. Because adapting things that are already there

has been a challenge. Yeah, I think

so. Because, you know, if you're trying to include if

you're trying to create an inclusive community, you know,

you want it to be yours and with functionality. When I say yours

for us, that means it's our community's community and how

You know, every step of the development that Laura led, but

it was all the decisions were made based on feedback from, you

know, the gamers in our community.

Yeah, well, in speaking of that, I wanted to

ask you all what strategies you have employed to make sure that

you're building diverse, equitable and inclusive

communities. I know you've had some struggles in the two years

that you've been alive here. But what how are you constantly

evolving or adapting to your community needs? And where are

you searching for feedback? Or where are you employing

different strategies to try to address those needs? What what

does that look like for you in these two years?

Sure, I'm happy to take that first floor. And then

Laura, and you can add anything. You know, we, we launched it,

and immediately used tactics that we had learned in our

former company about community building, which is, is kind of

on a touches on what I just said, which is always getting

feedback from the community, of course, that's very easy to do

when when you're on social media. And so, you know, we did

a lot of targeted questioning, and we did also outside of

outside of just social media, you know, we were, we were able

to go to to PAX is, we ran the survey, we ran really in depth

focus groups, and we're always talking to women in the

community and in the industry. So, you know, as a very

baseline, that's, that's the tactic. That being said, in

this, in this not this space, but in the in this in the area

of making sure that we're being inclusive at all times, it's a

journey, because we are, we are not representative of everybody

that we want to include at all times. And so the best thing

that we do is we, we certainly employ consultants at all times,

we also get feedback from, you know, if we have something on

social, which was written, you know, which didn't translate in

an inappropriate way, according to a user, or a commenter, we do

everything we can to try to actually meet that person and

talk to them. And I think, today, we haven't had a

situation that I know of that hasn't been somewhat resolved,

you know, in that in that way. But that said, I won't use the

word result period, because it's an ongoing discussion. And so we

are, we're also big believers in just saying, we, we are here to

create an inclusive community. That's why we launched our

business. And we are also humans. And so if we don't, if

we do something that's not inclusive, we will apologize and

try to do better and move on. And I would say we actually

haven't had that many challenges. We've had a couple

things on Twitter, that didn't translate well, and for reasons

that make total sense in retrospect, and so we, we hired

people, we believe in paying consultants and paying women to,

to analyze what our messaging is, and then changing it if we

need to, I

think it's really important to be nimble, when

you're trying to be inclusive, and then to recognize when

things didn't go very well. And it takes a lot of bravery to do

that, too. So I appreciate that honesty, when to shift to maybe

a little bit more positive or light tone, what are some of the

projects, events, partnerships, anything of that, that you all

have really enjoyed working on that have been, you know, Smash

community successes, I know the the awards is one of them. But I

would love to hear from you guys personally, what has been just

really fun for you.

I'll go first. I, the whole journey has been fun. I do

have to say, and it's been a really, I think I'm trying to

think of the award. That's kind of strong enough. But it's just

been a really wonderful time to be in this industry. And in

this, you know, the space of of trying to create an inclusive

community, because we've only existed during COVID. It seems

the social justice movement of 2020 got, you know, a lot of

momentum and we have gotten pretty much consistently

positive feedback and support since the day we launched. So we

are we're really thrilled about that if I had to pull out one

thing that's been really exciting for me and it's not

necessarily more exciting than everything else, but it's just

it's something we haven't talked about. It's something that I'm

very, kind of can't wait for right now is we are thrilled to

be launching some really great probe programming community and

events in the collegiate space. So we already are in the

collegiate space. We've been to Some events, some networking

events, some events where high school students were in

tournaments, with college coaches watching them. And we

have you know, as COVID, it's kind of been open and closed

over the past couple of months, depending on where what city

you're in, we, we feel more and more that we will be at events,

but, but we've got some big announcements coming. And again,

depending on when this podcast airs, it might be right around

the same time. But we are very, very exciting, excited to be

impactful in the collegiate space. And our, you know, at the

heart of what we want to do, beyond community building is

really in more than this very early on in this conversation,

but is find ways to amplify and celebrate and highlight the

women that are doing positive things in gaming or creating

positive initiatives. It's why we we ran the awards from day

one. And I think that we also learned early on that if we are

going to make that difference for women in gaming or create

those pipelines jobs, and and be impactful, we better take the

collegiate base pretty seriously, because it's a it's a

big space, it's the demographic of humans in this country and

around the world that are going to be in the workforce, they're

going to be gaming with their kids that are going to be making

the buying decisions in there that are going to create and

exemplify what community is all about what inclusivity

inclusivity is all about. So we're not in the business of,

of, you know, getting in the way of positive initiatives that are

already happening. So the collegiate space was a little

complicated, because there are some things happening here. It's

fragmented over here, there are tournaments there, some schools

have esports, some of the gaming clubs, sometimes it's aligned

with the athletic department, you know, it's, it's really all

over the place. But we have a great kind of, you know,

announcement in the next in the coming weeks. And what I would

say for anybody listening as if you are at a school, and you

don't know about the gamers definitely go on our website, we

already have a collegiate section, you can get involved.

And we're just super excited about it.

So that that yes, are there very excited about the collegia space

that was very much driven by Rebecca and her passions,

incredible. My passion more comes into, like the creativity

of really building stuff that hasn't been built before for

people so so these gamers like the game rewards when we came up

with that idea, and really seeing an idea from the

beginning, through fruition and having having people really

appreciate it and enjoy it, right. So. So that's what we're

constantly doing. And the gamers were, again, came up with these

game rewards, and then the dream stream. And we have so many

aspiring professionals, which is how we're doing boot camp. And

as, as the you know, as I was developing the app, and as we

were seeing what was happening in the app, we noticed something

very interesting. And we noticed that there are a lot a lot of

streamers that are in our app. Some are just starting out

beginning and some are you know, a month or two in but they're

all they all want to build they're there. It's it's it's a

career path for them that or they want it to be and the the

questions and the comments about streaming, which really opened

up a light bulb for us. And we're ticking and we have some

wonderful ideas brewing for all you streamers out there and

people who like to watch stream that will be coming to our app.

So for me the joy of of creating is is seeing what's there and

seeing the need and then creating something to fill that

need. So more to come closer to the second half of 2022

beginning of 23. But we're very very excited about where the app

go.

And I have Laura some some props she she was very modest there

but that is her passion. We all have different roles. But Laura

thought of the awards created them kind of was all in charge

of in the first year. And by the second year someone else had to

do it because she was on to the app. So she's behind the scenes

just pumping out new ideas at all times. So thing I love the

Sony. Yeah,

well I personally also love doing this podcast

because I love giving women the chance to brag either about

themselves or for the person who should be bragging about

themselves. So thank you for that introduction. I want to

zoom out a little bit here. And I know you all have talked about

now building in the collegiate space building for streamers,

building for kind of your average everyday person who is

looking to not necessarily be super hardcore into gaming,

which I think is a lot of what discord offers. And also,

Rebecca, when you pointed out the discord is confusing, I

totally agree when it comes to building massive servers. I like

being part of smaller discord communities, but the large ones

can be very overwhelming. When if they're if they're not hosted

by someone who is intensely trying to keep them together,

which is a whole other issue. But just to zoom out on that a

little more I part of the reason why I started this show, is as a

hyper casual gamer, I didn't feel that I really fit in with

gaming culture. I watched friends play intense shooter

games, and I kind of knew about the bigger more popular games

and League of Legends and all that. But I definitely stuck to

playing puzzle games on my phone. And so it seems as if you

all are trying to carve out a space for those people like me

as well, we're more into the hyper casual thing, who who

aren't going to spend five hours digging into a League of Legends

discord, not that there's anything wrong with that is

there's not. But there's this wide world out there of people

who haven't necessarily gotten a chance to really interact with

the gaming space than I do think that those people tend to be

more women, just because women tend to play more casual games.

So with that in mind, can you just tell me how you're working

to kind of incorporate people like me, who are more, maybe on

the periphery of the space? Still very interested in it

still should be included? But what are you looking for? And

then are you what are you thinking that you wish that

other companies or other organizations would do for

people more in my position?

On that one, if you want or Laura, it's up to you

either way, Rebecca. So a couple things, I think we we're sitting

at this moment in time, where gaming is intersecting with so

many other things. And so, you know, 87% of Gen Z Games, I

think it's I read the other day, like 94 96% of Gen alpha. So

what what the word gaming, even means is probably going to be

evolving, as it you know, is as songs are released in game as

sports, and there's, you know, the plan, NFL announced a huge

partnership yesterday. It just It doesn't end military, NASA,

the medical world, right. So while while a while all those

intersections are happening. And then while you have, you know,

the hardcore gamers and the hyper casual gamers, I think at

the end of the day, first of all, what are we doing for

gamers like you a lot of our community, our community spans

all of it, right? And so maybe you wouldn't consider yourself a

gamer. I don't know that, that everybody, even on our CO

founding team would have considered themselves as as

really a gamer before we before we launched this company. Now

that we've launched it, we first of all thought, Well wait, we

all were gamers already. And then of course, now that we're

here, some of us game more, more consistently. And our co founder

verta actually has a show on our Twitch every week. So but I

think I think it just becomes less and less important. And

what will happen as that intersection happens is that all

of the other things that everybody's already involved in

are going to be referencing games, and those lines are just

going to be blurred. So I definitely want to let Laura

weigh in on on her thoughts of what what are we doing, but I

think what we were doing is what we've always done, which is

watch the trends. Watch what our community is talking about. We

will certainly continue to watch the you know, the numbers and

the percentage of of women who are casual gaming because it's a

lot and we want to be relevant to them as well.

Yeah, and listen, I know I'm a little bit biased here. But I do

want to talk about how the app really does kind of allow for

more casual gamers like yourself. At full disclosure, I

didn't consider myself a gamer at all before we started this

but now that I'm I do puzzles I do cube cube I love all that

stuff. So I guess technically I was a gamer and I have a 13 year

old son who plays 24/7 So I see the fortnight I see it all I get

that but There's a huge learning curve when we came on, like, you

know, learning about everything and, and now that I really feel

like we're in the space, and we know, you know what's going on,

um, but the app, and the app feels like a place where I can

genuinely authentically, be myself and contribute, again,

because of all of the other things that are putting in our

app. So because it's not just gaming focus, I feel that the

more casual gamers can really find a place for themselves

there and not be intimidated. Because to be honest, the non

gaming posts get just as much interaction and love and likes

as the gaming one. So again, I know I am biased, but I do want

to say this people out there who feel like they liked the game

for sure. It's not their heart and soul. But our app is more

than that. Our app is just a warm, welcoming place for

anybody. And to be honest, even if you don't game but you're

looking for a community to be a part of and feel accepted and,

and be encouraged. It's our app. So I had to say that. Yeah,

I love the plug. It's totally fine. And like I

said, you all are making these transitions so easy, because

speaking of the line being blurred between gamers and non

gamers, how are you all thinking about the metaverse? How are you

thinking about what is first of all, what does the metaverse

mean to you? We talked about it on the show a lot. But the

metaverse means a lot of different things. And it's so

early on. I'm really trying to have these conversations now so

that in five years, we don't have the wrong people

controlling the metaverse, whatever that may be. But what

are you all thinking about when it comes to approaching the

metaverse, which is even more of a blurred line between gamers

and non gamers? And how can we make sure that the right people

the right voices, the right ideas, kind of get that funding

to be able to build a very inclusive warm community or

several communities within the metaverse?

Rebecca, you want to come in? Yeah. Yeah, sure. You

know, I

think it like you said it is early. And we are certainly very

actively watching everything that's happening with the

metaverse. How do I define the metaverse? I mean, of course,

yes, 10 people and you get 10 different definitions. I think

what's going to be interesting in the metaverse is to see how

you know, and again how far down the line this is. But how we can

interact virtually is with sort of more more realistic

interactions. And I think where that's going to be very

impactful is with brands. And as I don't think we've mentioned

this book, but one reason we've founded ourselves as a company

for profit company instead of a nonprofit is, first of all,

there were a lot of nonprofits already doing great initiatives

in this space. And we wanted to be able to support them. But

also because we felt like to build a community that was

inclusive in the way that we wanted it to be, we would need

the the buy in from all of the different pillars of the

industry. So that you know, the esports boards, publishers, and

nonprofits to universities, and the brands because brands are so

important. And see and we were talking about collegiate before

as this generation of, of students, graduates from college

and goes into the real world and interacts with brands. They care

more about what's behind the brands that they're interacting

with, then than ever before. And while we we live this current

life but the metaverse is going to make this even more and more

that's a little bit fluid between between virtual and in

real life. You know, there's we see it with hybrid events,

right? And maybe COVID made hybrid events, somebody

something everybody knew about, but I think it only sped them

up. We were already going there. And the metaverse is is sort of

another example of where you can, you know, be somewhere see

a brand instead of just an advertisement for the brand.

It's gonna feel like the brand is actually there. And what that

looks like it the game hers. I mean, right now honestly, we are

super focused on building our community creating an inclusive

space. And that is what we're spending the majority of our

time doing. Whilst we're actively watching, you know,

everything developing and Metaverse sessions.

Yeah, I mean, just to add a little bit to that. I feel like

as with all disruptive new technology experience, there is

so much good that can come away from it. I mean, when I think of

the metaverse, I just think of connecting people in such a

profound way which is Absolutely, you know,

astounding. That said it can also bring on a potential, you

know, negative things as well. And I feel like because we're

just at the, you know, the forefront of this Metaverse, I

think that people, companies technology have an opportunity

to do it. Right. Right from the start. I feel like in the gaming

industry, there's been a lot of big apologies from companies who

have not necessarily been as inclusive or, you know, just

welcoming and safe. And because the metaverse could become such

a huge thing, I hope that this time around, companies will you

will really think about doing it right. And, and making people's

avatars feel safe when they're in the community out there,

because that's a thing. That's a thing I've heard even like

avatars. I'm not even kidding you. I've heard of an avid

someone in a virtual space where their avatar has gotten that

attack. And it was really, really upsetting for this

person. So. So anyway, I just, you know, again, that's I just

hope that we can learn from our mistakes as a collective gaming

space and do it right.

Totally agree with that. I think prioritizing

safety is so important. And just to summarize, before we get into

the last segment, although all the things we've talked about so

far, I know you all have really focused on the community

building aspect, both in carving out a niche, and in serving that

niche is important and unique interests. And I think that

you've mentioned too, that we all have a natural tendency

towards community. So building roads to be adaptable. And

welcome is really important. Your app, which you've mentioned

several times, and it sounds it sounds great. I actually have

downloaded and used it a little bit. And so I do I do recommend

it to those folks out there that are looking for a way to get

more involved with gaming, but are maybe a little bit more

hesitant. And your app is a space not only for gaming, but

truly for community building for welcoming people who are at all

stages of gaming and non gaming, to meet them to connect and to

talk about fun stuff together, which is it which is great. And

I know that we went a little bit through what being inclusive

means to you. Part of it is always looking for feedback. And

another part of is being willing to adapt or change something

change a message change a product when it's necessary. The

last thing we kind of got into was the metaverse gaming versus

non gaming and how that line is getting more blurred. The

Metaverse is an example where you can be fully absorbed

without being there. And we have an opportunity to build whatever

this Metaverse world means from the very start to prioritize

safety and inclusion and equity. So hopefully companies

throughout this past couple of years have, hopefully what is a

real reckoning, we'll take those lessons forward into building

new tech and future entertainment experiences. The

last segment that I do, and I do this on every show, so our

returning listeners will be familiar, is I asked you for a

moment of reflection, and this is a just a chance for you to

look back on your career, where you're at now. And to answer the

question, what is one thing you would like to tell your younger

self about getting into the gaming or tech industry and

being successful?

So I guess I'll start with that one. And I think, you

know, as by trade, I I'm a math teacher, I'm at for Junior High

in high school, right. And that was my jam, and I loved it. Um,

and then again, like I said, when when I had my first child

and created the first business, I had no idea that there was an

entrepreneur in me, I really had no idea. And so who you think

you are, there are things inside of you that you may not know

exists. So what I would like to tell, you know, people is just,

you know, life is just so short. And I know all of these, all of

these, you know, advice, types of expressions are so trite, but

it's very true. And you just need to kind of stop thinking

and just do it. Like I always truly believe Nike says it best.

Um, you know, when I had my first event, as you know, when I

started the mommy business, and I was taking a cab with my

mother and my six month old daughter and my butterflies were

like, and I'm like, What the heck am I doing? But again,

here's another tribalism fake it till you make it. I walked in

and I ran the show, even though I was scared as heck. So Whether

that be wanting to start a business, whether that be

wanting to change careers, whether that wanting to be any

path in life, you you, you really you only regret another

tried ism. But it's true you only regret what you didn't try,

right? That's the only regret in life if you try something, and

it didn't work, you know what you still can be proud of

yourself for trying. So I just wanted to give a Like, my advice

is like a little pep talk here, like life is too short, and

anyone can do anything and you you need to build the life you

want for yourself, though, I would say be confident, go for

it, listen to your gut and, and just do it.

That's hard to follow Laura, that was pretty I'm inspired by

that too. My my advice. First of all, my advice would be almost

everything Laura just said. And what I also always lean into is,

like Laura said, also, you may not exactly know what you want

to do. But if you have an idea, let's say you want to work in

the esports and gaming industry, but you don't really I think a

lot of it is about hard work. And people surround yourself

with as many people who you can to learn from, connect with

them, talk to them in this virtual world currently, then go

on Twitter, join groups, and something will bubble up. I

mean, you know, even all of the ideas that we've done in the

development of this company, we didn't have those all from day

one they've developed over time. And I really strongly believe a

lot of the reason I am sitting where I'm sitting today is

because of the people I've surrounded myself with. And I'm

super grateful for that.

Think that is a wonderful tribute. And I will

just point out to our listeners that Rebecca actually reached

out to me on LinkedIn. So I do recommend the reaching out to

people via LinkedIn strategy, because really, really great

things can can come of that. Thank you all so much for coming

on. Where can people find you if you want to be found, feel free

to plug anything you want to plug? Let let all the listeners

know how they can interact with you in your communities.

Sure, we are at the game hers on all socials and the

gamers app in the App Store. And I'm Rebecca Dixon.

The Laura Deutsch. Feel free and we love we love hearing from

people. So we just we did reach out. We'd love to hear from you.

Yes, be sure to follow them on all your social

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