We’re here to discuss the first book in Anne Rice’s Lives of the Mayfair Witches trilogy, The Witching Hour, and the continuing adventures of our favorite tragic family of witches.

In this episode we discuss dark fantasies and tropes turned on their heads, incestuous witches and missing characters.

If you like Anne Rice and her vampires or witches enough to read this, then you like them enough to join our cult...I mean Discord: https://articulatecoven.com/discord

If Discord isn’t your thing, we also have a Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/articulatecoven/ or follow us on Twitter @articulatecoven

Until you hear from us again, watch the first episode of Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+ and join us again for our next episode.

It’s Incestuwitchous - Ashley and Joel Discuss The Witching Hour, the novel - AC023

Joel: The Articulate Coven is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to

Joel: the Articulate Coven. We are your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: And I am Ashley

Joel: and we are the articulate coven. Ashley, I'm so excited to be back with you again and and it feels like it's been a very long on. Realistically, we've only been off like a month, but -- Right. -- it feels much longer than that much has happened.

Joel: It

Ashley: doesn't feel so strange to not be talking ever week, but we're back to it, y'all. We're back to it.

Joel: Absolutely. We're back. And just in the nick of time, as a matter of fact, as we're recording this tonight, this tonight's episode, by the way, is going to be on the witching hour, the novel itself, the first novel in the trilogy, the lives of the Mayfair witches from Anne Rice. We are, of course, the unofficial podcast and fan community for the Vampire Chronicles from Anise, the Lives of the Mayfair Witches from Anise, all of her novels as well as the AMC series interview with the vampire critically acclaimed as it wrapped up its first season recently, and the forthcoming Mayfair witch's, which is just about to drop on AMC proper. As a matter of fact, as we're recording, it's already on AMC Plus. Ashley, you and I talked about it today. We gotta rush an episode out here about the book so that we can watch the TV series starting tomorrow and and not get the two jumbled up together. Yeah.

Joel: And

Ashley: I actually had timed at work today that I could have watched it while I was, you know, in the background while I was doing stuff. But we I really didn't you were totally right. We didn't really want it to color our conversation about the book. We wanted to be able to kind of as much as we can. You know, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, but we wanted to kind of keep the conversation a little bit more purely about the book and try not to let too much of the series bleed over into it. You

Joel: know, we've we've got a lot of things to talk about, but I wanna since we sort of brush that subject there, I wanna talk about this specific thing for a minute. It is interesting to me. You and I got to cover really the first five books, definitely the first four, but we even did the MIMNOC episode before we had seen any of the interview with the Vampire TV show

Ashley: other than

Joel: the trailer. By the time we did MIMNOC, we had seen the trailer, but we still hadn't even seen the behind the scenes documentary. We didn't get any spoiler episodes or or screener episodes or anything like that. So we were still going into it fresh, just imagining what it could be. Here, we've already seen and heard quite a bit about what this series is gonna be some of the changes they're going to make, etcetera, etcetera. We've watched all of the or a lot of the you know, cast panels that have been at the various comic cons and things like that. And and so here we can't discuss this book or any of its sequels definitely without being in the shadow of the series. I think that's sort of a positive and a negative. For one thing, we've got a lot of conversation about the vampire chronicles, if you go back to our earlier episodes, where we specifically are discussing the Hulu adaptation, which was in the works at the time, we didn't know a lot about that either. But specifically, we were talking about whole different production crews and their background and what they might bring to the series. And none of that ends up being real at all.

Ashley: Right.

Joel: We never discussed our adaptation or the the our thoughts on an adaptation of interview with any of the framework that we knew the time jump for instance. We never really looked at that until it was upon us. Here, We know all of that going in. I think generally because this is a slightly lesser known slightly less beloved as far as, like, total numbers, total attention book series than the Vampire Chronicles. I think it's honestly I think it's good that we're going to be reviewing them alongside each other. I think it makes more sense, especially since you and I neither one the witches aren't our favorites, either one of us. The vampires

Ashley: are -- Yeah. -- what

Joel: our hearts are real.

Ashley: Absolutely. Well and, you know, it's really interesting I forgot how much I really loved this book and how bad shit crazy it is. It's just fucking bananas. But, like, there were so once I started rereading it, I was like, oh, shit. I remember so much of this. And it came back to me and a much more vivid way than I expected. So I realized it's kind of stayed with me more than I than I than I thought it would or thought it did. But yeah, I mean, it's I think we'll probably be a little bit more forgiving and but maybe not. Maybe I will be because we'll be a little gushy about it. We might not be as we might have harder opinions about it. I don't know. We'll see how it how these conversations go.

Joel: Couple of yeah. No. I'm I'm with you, by the way. I think I yeah. I think, generally, it's gonna be a good thing. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. And and again, interesting for me to see another swipe at what does An Rice's immortal universe look like as, you know, through the lens of AMC TV. This is just our second series in the universe. They seem to have, you know, big continuing plans even with their ongoing cost cutting issues. Yeah. Not just see, but all the media companies are facing right

Ashley: now. It's all the streaming.

Joel: I saw it today. There was a headline yeah. Well, that's exactly it. Every you know, Wall Street finally is calling these guys to account and saying, okay. But but what what's the return? We understand what you're spending on it. We understand your, you know, customer acquisition. But what are you what is the total money that you're getting every month? So,

Ashley: like, the big deal. On that again? Yeah. The big deal is

Joel: required to suddenly.

Ashley: The loss of the huge add revenue. And that's like I mean, I've read a bunch of articles about this over the past couple of weeks just because I was real I kept seeing it and I was like, how the fuck is this? Happening. And I was seeing, you know, like, all a lot of the streamers, a lot of the streaming services were or or cable channels that have shifted more to streaming because that's what the clientele wants, you know, for the most part. And most of us ditched our cable, most of us ditched our dishes, you know. So it's it's a huge loss of ad revenue for them. And I guess they just really haven't figured out a way to either monetize that revenue within their streamer services or I I don't know, but it's wild. How much of an issue. It's become for these companies that are producing good shows and and and making awesome content. And so it's not and like breaking the streaming rack cards too. Like, that's the other crazy thing. You know?

Joel: Well, I do think AMC is in a great position. The combination of their own original content and the fact that they also own shutter right they've got this great --

Ashley: So -- feature

Joel: specific streaming service that's there within the AMC network. I think they're a really ripe acquisition target, honestly, if you ask me, I think that they are incredibly promising for one of the larger streamers to sort of gobble up over the next few years.

Ashley: Yeah. That's stuff there. That's true.

Joel: End up with you've got this huge library of content that people really, really love. That's just right waiting to, you know, be inveloped in into whatever other overarching whether that's in Netflix or at Apple TV or whatever. But, anyway, I don't think these shows are

Ashley: endangered. No. No. No. No. I think this

Joel: universe is endangered. That IP has incredible value. The first show is, you know, was a home run both in the ratings, but also in especially critical response. I think this one, the initial buzz has been very good. We'll see what the final product look like look like, but I do think AMC is gonna continue to invest here no matter, you know, what their overall corporate fates hold. Let's go ahead and talk about before we get to the book specifically, let's talk about a couple of just like housekeeping things. First and foremost, Thanks for staying with us through our hiatus, and hello, and welcome to all those who have joined us. I want to remind you to check the show notes If you're a Facebook person, we've got a great Facebook group, which is very active.

Ashley: Yeah. You

Joel: aren't a Facebook person. We've got a discord which we would love you to join. Either one of those, you can have in-depth conversations about the episodes specifically, about the media that comes out around the episodes, about the books themselves, all of that stuff in its own place. So you don't have to get spoiled on everything. You don't get stuff shoved in your face accidentally, but when you want to talk about something, you've got a great community that's very friendly and excited to talk about it with you. So check those links all in the show notes. Yeah.

Ashley: We can unpack it altogether, guys. That's

Joel: right, man. That's right. Exactly. We can unpack it together. The other thing that I was going to remind everybody of or tell everybody. I guess we haven't mentioned this specifically yet publicly. We are going to do another Dorian discussion club It's coming up as we record this. It'll be the Monday right in front of us. We're talking about Monday, January ninth. We're going to do a premier party for the Mayfair witches. That'll be Monday night. The night, I think it's Ashley, is it five PM central? Is that what we're doing?

Ashley: Yep. Five PM control. I think that one of the other one of the Dorian partners that's gonna be on with us is from a land across a sea. So we gotta be accommodating for them as well so we can get everybody everybody in at a reasonable hour. No one wants to be up at you know -- Yes. -- seven AM talking about witches unless you're

Joel: still up. That's right. That's right. That'll give everybody even the cable viewers. That'll give them time to watch the episode as well, and then join us on Monday night. Let's get to it. First and foremost, Let's talk about the behemoth that this book is. And the whole series book, especially, I thought this was very apt. This came from Miss Amy. In our Discord. She says, I'm trying to get through the audiobook, but y'all. It's over forty hours long. Forty hours -- Yeah. -- should be called the witching work week.

Ashley: Yeah. You yeah. You literally put in a damn workweek listening to it. So I'm I split this reading up between. I read I had at all my Kindle, and then I also had it on on on Audible. So I kinda split it between the two because I was trying to work through it in a reasonable amount of time. And when we were doing one of our Dorian calls, Joel mentioned you mentioned, like, listening to it at a higher speed, which I've tried to do before and it's so like strange and off putting to me. But then I realized once I got my ears used to it, it was like I was hearing the story at the speed that I read instead of someone reading at me. Does that make sense?

Joel: It makes a hundred percent sense. And it's also it's absolutely true that your brain, your mind, whatever has to attune, to the speed. And that some people I think it takes maybe even a whole chapter or some maybe you have to listen for a

Ashley: whole day -- Yeah. --

Joel: before you finally figure it out. I noticed the other day my son turned on a podcast on his phone for us to listen to in the car, and he was listening at a slightly higher speed than I do, not way higher, and it's a speed that I listen to other shows at, but this particular show I listen slightly slower than he had it. And at first, it sounded very strange, and then he even yeah, let me turn this down a little bit. And he turned the speed down to what I normally listen to it at. But I thought to myself, I think if he'd given me you know, five

Joel: minutes.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't have noticed You wouldn't have I wouldn't

Joel: have even noticed the difference then moving forward. Well,

Ashley: it's like the inflection. Your brain cat

Joel: is

Ashley: what I've done. Thinks

Joel: it takes this forty hour book and turns it into --

Ashley: A twenty one. -- twenty hour book. Five hour book. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And because I was trying to burn through it pretty quick before the holidays gobbled us up, which happened anyway, you know. But yeah, so I I sort of split it and I loved the way that I split it. Also love this narrator. She's fantastic, and she does Pandora as well because I listened to that audiobook, like, in the car one time. And she does she reads that book as well. She's fantastic. And so it's a it is a really, really good lesson. I read these books originally really out of order. Which

Joel: is really what you see. Which which did you start with?

Ashley: I was given to talk. I think Taltos. Wow. I know. I know. I I believe that I was given a copy of it. And I was like, well, this is like the third part of this. And I hadn't read the witching hour yet. I'd already burned through a lot of the vampires by that, you know, that that had been written at that point. And read these totally out of order. So when, like, there were just some things as I was reading this and I remembered reading that first. I was like, this is so there's could be some fucked up shit that happens to some of these characters.

Joel: Let's dive into this thing because I I imagine we both have quite a bit to say and there there is a lot -- Yes. -- this whole series goes some really interesting places, something that had actually never occurred to me until after my reading when I started to sort of search out some other people's thoughts online, I think I even I think this came directly from something in one of the discussions on our discord community, actually. But I realized for the first time finally, the Talto's, this overarching story of the Talto's, is Anne's swing at fairies. Or elves. This is her version of the Eldon folk. You know, the the people before. The magical folk --

Ashley: Right. -- all

Joel: of the lore that, you know, she likes so much. And so many other authors take really interesting swings particularly we've discussed the, you know, the true blood books before, the Charlene Harris novels. They're all about the combination of fairies and vampires that's effectively like the central thing once you really open the world up. The Anita k Laurel k Hamilton, the Anita Blakebooks, they take swings at fairies as well, and then she's got a whole series that just focus on the fairies. Yeah. I hadn't really thought about it, but Yeah.

Ashley: The telcos are her elves. Yeah. I hadn't thought about it that way, but that's a very interesting take on it for sure. I mean, yeah, kind of that ancient that sort of ancient spirit type, you know, character. Yeah. Wow. It's a lot. When but not just not just the the spirit,

Joel: but the the people that they come from. Right? Which you is what you got thrown into -- Right. -- the Talto's -- Right. -- the third one, which really focuses on this ancient world, and you and you find out about all of these, you know, these humanoid, you know, people that lived before us, etcetera, etcetera. Anyway, but what it starts with is a house. This beautiful beautiful house that she was entranced by, and she had already been toying with the story about witches. She had been working on that, but it really took flight when she moved to New Orleans and and bought this house on first street. Which is the actual real world basis for the Mayfair house. The

Ashley: house is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Is

Joel: lovely. Yeah. And the house that they got for the show The house that they got for the show is not on first street, but it is very very it looks very much like the actual house.

Ashley: Yeah. It really does. I didn't I'll I'll be interested to know if is that an actual house? Did they or did they build a facade?

Joel: Do you know? It's my understanding. They did the same thing that they did for interview with the vampire. It's based on an actual location and some of the exteriors are shot there, but then they also built a set --

Ashley: Excellent. --

Joel: that you can do whatever you

Joel: want.

Ashley: Well, yeah. You would have to. That house is the house is described in such in such incredible detail at times it is a character in the book as well. You know, that the house itself is a living, breathing entity with out a doubt in this book.

Joel: So other than the house, the first thing that strikes me by this book particularly, the series as a whole though, this series is very rapey.

Ashley: Oh, my god. I mean Good luck. You got it. Not

Joel: just in that many characters are raped. But Rowan and Michaels specifically are two, you know, protagonist ostensibly, the two main characters of this book, especially Both of them have rape fantasies

Ashley: that they mentioned. They like it a little rinky.

Joel: They like their sex. Rowan describes it rough and tumble like a rape from both sides.

Ashley: I really think that this book, you get a real taste of like Ann's erotica writing in this as well, like These are some pretty sexy, steamy scenes. You know, if you if you could get past fact that everybody likes it very rough, apparently.

Joel: Well, so Anne has said elsewhere you know, on in interviews and things like that, that she personally writes about sex in a transgressive way. In an in an aggressive way, she personally, I think, has these fantasies. And so for her to personify that in a couple of her characters make sense, is just something that personally makes me uncomfortable. And honestly, it keeps both of these characters specifically at a remove from me. I can't identify with them in the way that I do so easily with Lostat, especially. And it's funny because I say quote unquote, funny. Blastat obviously rapes people in the press specifically. He sort of did that to Louis in the first season of the TV series. And yet, the fact that he does not fantasize or glorify those actions it doesn't make it part of his person or his personality to me in the same way that it does very much to Rowan and Michael. Both of them. Both of them. This is kind of part of who they are. And it continues on into the other books as well. Anyway

Ashley: When you even get Keeps them out of

Joel: out of room.

Ashley: You can fix

Joel: this whole thing a little less appealing to me.

Ashley: Yeah. I totally get that. You I mean, it is it's a little uncomfortable for sure. It's definitely but I also have to remind myself too that it's like we're kind of hearing the secret thoughts of these characters because we've got this omniscient narrator instead of a first person narrator, which is how, you know, our vampires are told to us. So it's just kind of a different I don't know. It's kind of a different voice, I guess. I don't know. I'm with you. It's it's It's

Joel: real rapey. You know what? I had not considered that, but you are you are so right. This is from a different you I mean, we do hear their voices, but it's not it is from that third person operation. It's not none of these books are written by Rowan or or Michael or even Lascher or, you know, mona, etcetera. Yeah. No. Very good point. Very good point that I had not considered. Yeah.

Ashley: You almost have to settle into the different language.

Joel: Yes. Yes. No. You're a million percent right. And I'll I'll honestly, that goes to show why there are some people who further which series over the vampire series.

Ashley: And if

Joel: you're used to that sort of omniscient third person thing as opposed to the Epistle style almost from the vampire chronicles. It yeah. It's interesting that I had not considered it. There's a line here though that I wanna get to since we're talking about the sexiness and the ripiness.

Joel: Do

Joel: Rowan at one point describes Michael. She's talking about how all the things that Michael does turns her on. She says they turn me on all directly, genetically erratic.

Ashley: They're so horny. I love

Joel: that. She found them all direct frustrating about it. Anne was many things. A Prude was not one of them.

Ashley: No. No. And I these characters are unapologetically horny. Like and I I kind of dig that, you know, get yours consistently, please. But get it, you know, however you like it. I'm not gonna yuck your yum. But, you know, They are horny. This is there's, like, graphic sex smattered all through this. The airplane I for gotten about the airplane scene. The Oh, boy. Your favorite your favorite spirit ray

Joel: to and listen. Listen. Listen. Fourteen year old Joel. Fourteen year old Joel, whatever when I whatever I was when I finally got to the witching hour. I think that was absolutely my favorites. It's still my favorite scene of the whole fucking book. That scene is hot hot, rapey or not.

Ashley: So funny. No. It is. It's very hot. Like like, that's the thing. I think this makes people this book can make you uncomfortable because it is very essential well, it's very sexual. It's very it's unapologetically raunchy sometimes. And I love that. I kinda love how filthy it is.

Joel: It in some ways, it reminds me of, you know the scene in I mean, of course, you know the scene. Everybody knows the scene, but you know you know the scene in the Exorcist where the the kid, you know, takes the crucifix and jams it into herself.

Ashley: Oh, yes. Very familiar.

Joel: Thing that everybody's like, oh my god. Okay. But that's like, that's a thing that was done. I mean, obviously, first of all, it's sort of like absurd and and so over the top as to be laughable. But it's also, like, specifically meant to evoke like, revulsion of a religious profane nature. Right?

Ashley: Like, you're

Joel: supposed to go, oh, how could you. What's the crime side? A lot of this book. Yes. I think a lot of this book I think a lot of this book is meant to sort of push everyone's buttons. Oh, you think you're open minded.

Ashley: Right. Right. Right.

Joel: Yes. Oh, well, what about What about if your granddaughter was also your

Ashley: lover? You know? Andrew

Joel: your granddaughter, Andrew daughter.

Ashley: That's your daughter. It's your cousin. And your cousin's cousin. And her aunt my god. This is so incestuous that it would make a torgarian blush. Like that, this is so deeply deeply obsessed to was. Like, you get into the history of The Witches, which is actually an awesome part of the book in my opinion, where Aaron's kind of and you kinda get it through the perspective of not to jump ahead, but you kinda get it through the perspective of Michael is reading these these documents that Aaron has given him so that he can really learn about the Mayfair family and what the hell is going on. And and so you kind of get it through that that perspective and it's always through the lens of the the the person in the Tall transcript who was the poor bastard who was gonna be driven insane and eventually driven to death by these crazy witches in their last year. And so it's just it's such a great part of the book, but I had forgotten just how how how thin this family tree is. It's got the one branch. Oh,

Joel: it starts straight. It in straight -- Yeah. -- it's straight in the middle. Like, the from go, the the, you know, Peter Petervana Aubold, the the the Tallahaskah member who starts this whole thing with -- The poor bastard. -- falls in love with. He's the father Yeah. The port I mean, and again, he's sort of sucked into it, which by the way, that's the one thing and we're about to get to Michael Curry. That's where I wanna start our discussion in earnest. But The one thing that I'm I'm going to miss, I feel like, from Michael's absence in the series, specifically, in the TV series specifically, is the parallels that you can draw from the way that he is sucked into this family's orbit and specifically to Rowan and her undoing just in the same way that Peter was drawn in by the first few witches --

Ashley: Yeah. -- you know,

Joel: he Michael means well. He falls genuinely in love with Rowan and then works hard to do what she wants and what is right for her. And because of that, it brings about his own undoing. He's part of a lot of atrocities. I mean, if you had shown Michael the story of his life as it was gonna play out before he actually got hooked up with Rowan, I mean, he might have jumped off a building. I think, honestly, he might have just ended it and cut it all short. Because I don't think he would have wanted things to play out this way. But once he met Rowan, he couldn't get away. Peter's very much the same way. Once he's connected to these witches, he he knows it's wrong particularly with his daughter then eventually. He knows it's wrong and yet over and over again, he cannot help himself. He's drawn back into their circle. It's the same thing that we find from all of our lead witches with Lascher. They all know sort of instinctually at a deep level that he's playing them, even the ones who truly believe they have him under control. They know really he thinks he's getting away with something here. He's working towards an unseen goal. What can it be? And at different times, they sort of have convinced themselves that they were smarter than he is.

Joel: Right.

Ashley: Absolutely. They

Joel: know this is all a devil's bargain.

Ashley: Yeah. I mean, it is. It's you you make a deal with the devil. It's a fascinating story. It is. It is. And we've kinda jumped into the middle of us. I'm sorry. I did not mean to to derail us from right off the bat, but it is. It's crazy. And and how how everyone's manipulated and manipulating, you know, and and it's all so much of it is based in an attempt to control us situation, which is completely uncontrollable.

Joel: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And the the thing that here's the one point that I wanna make on on this sort of middle of the book section that we're in now, and then let's go back because I do wanna start with Michael. But this section of the book is so thick and rich. It's my favorite. It's my favorite, honestly, of the entire witch. I

Ashley: think it's mine too. I love -- You're so long. -- this history, it's so rich.

Joel: So good. Also, it's episodic. Right? Yes. Section is written in letter form like the VCs that we like so much. So it may be that first person a narration that we that we really enjoy more than anything else and just seems so gifted at it. Alright. I wanna talk about Michael. Here's the thing that occurred to me in this reading. Michael Curry is a lot of things. But the primary thing that I think he is is an inversion of the handsome prince rescuing the damsel. You know, this is Anne Rice Writing, a very stereotypical literary hero. He's rough and tumble, but also eridite. He comes from a low beginning and yet he is well

Ashley: off. Built himself up.

Joel: He is Yes, he's strong and independent as a man and yet completely subservient and you know, willing to follow the whims of our strong female heroine. And yet, he saves Rowan from nothing. We're led from the very beginning in his story to believe he's got this grand purpose from the other side he's supposed to stop something. He's supposed to save somebody. You know, all of these ancestral spirits are counting on him and it's sort of the specious what is the meaning, etcetera, etcetera, but he knows he's got a purpose. And yet in the end, his purpose was Lascher's purpose. Yeah. And he's sort of a a side car to the main attraction, which is again He's a pawn. He's a pawn. Pawn, which is, again, why? I think in the overall scheme of things, it probably makes sense to combine characters with Aaron Lightner and Michael Curry in the TV series into this character of SiP. But boy, it's interesting to look at what Anne, you know, started to do what she built with Michael and then where he goes as a character arc. And that that arc of the, you know, the handsome prince saving the damsel except nope, never mind. The damsel saved herself and ran off with the villain maybe. What happened?

Ashley: What happened? Yeah. Yeah. What the fuck happened? Like, what? And that's the thing. I think that everyone is Lascher's pawn. And and and whether you realize that not. The strongest of the witches is upon when it comes down to it because he is such a clever manipulator. It's just insane to me how quickly she she can turn the situation on Rowan. It's just fucking bananas to me. Like, everything about this book, everything's very fast. It all takes place over the course of, like, not a lot of days. I mean, well, like the beginning part of it, you know, she get getting them getting two New Orleans and then dealing with the house, you know, dealing with the death of the ants dealing with, you know, with the funeral and all of that is also fast. And then they get married, and then and then, you know, she's pregnant, and then it's just like, fuck an a. You know, it just feels like it all happens so fast. And then and then you turn around and and you've gotten the devil

Joel: has played you, girl, played you. So it ends it it ends it New Year. Right? Or does it end at Christmas? Is it I think I think the very, like, final chapter is at New

Ashley: Year. Yeah. It's right about like Christmas pops on my head for some reason. But yeah. It's like right around that. It's right around Yes.

Joel: They they got married at Christmas. No. It's absolutely it's absolutely Christmas. And there's there's a snow scene towards the end too too during because it snows in New Orleans at Christmas, which is which is honest to God magical. It really does feel otherworldly when it happens.

Ashley: All the time, Joel? Well, no. So it doesn't happen

Joel: much. But when it does, I mean, I so when I lived there, I lived there for three years. And during those three years, we had two hurricanes and both years that we had hurricanes, that winter it snowed and stuck. Neither time did it stick, like, for more than twenty four hours because -- Right. -- for a morning at least you got to go out and play in the snow. And it is honest to god bewildering, bewilderingly magical, just as described to the book. I hope we get that in the TV series. That may be it depends on how they're gonna break this down. It may be in season two before we get there. But

Ashley: in a

Joel: way,

Joel: So the you're right in that it does take place from, like, early early fall, maybe, like, the end of the summer is when we meet our characters. And then the final events of the book take place either right after right after New Year's. Right. So you it you know, it's a matter of months. At most. And most of those happen off screen or off page in between when Rowan and Michael moved to New Orleans and when the wedding actually takes place. There's there's there's like a month or a month and a half when they're doing all the family stuff and a lot of that is not actually even depicted in the book. But so the compression is real. Here's the one other thing that I think is necessary about the character of Michael for them to bring over to SIP. And I don't know if they're gonna do it based on the name, in particular, and we I don't I haven't seen enough of him in the trailers to know to get a feel for where his character's origins are. Michael, the one thing that he brings to this that I think is important is he's a lowborn New Orleans. Right? There's a

Ashley: lot in

Joel: in

Joel: the the scenes where where where he and Rowan are together, the family knows about it and everybody's sort of sizing him up as the family gets to know him. Ryan Mayfair in particular. Is introducing himself to Michael and talking, and he's trying to praise Michael about his success. But Michael reads it immediately and realizes, oh, Ryan had to be investigated. He wanted

Ashley: to know if

Joel: I'm trying to, you know, weasel in on Rowan's money and the family's money, etcetera, etcetera. But the line from the book is, this was a little talk about the geography of New Orleans, that he, Ryan, had come from the other oh, excuse me. Not Ryan Michael. He said that he had come from the other side of Magazine Street and still had the Irish Channel in his voice. Michael, even though he was a millionaire at this point, even though he's his famous architect and he's a he's a big to do, and Ryan's actually very impressed with what he's done for himself and how he's not clearly a sick of ant trying to weasel in on the family's money and bully for him, but still there was this needling understanding of we're the ones in New Orleans that matter and you at least used to be one of those in New Orleans that doesn't matter.

Ashley: Right. Right. That class that classism, that class warfare. That

Joel: I want that for that character.

Ashley: Well, and there's

Joel: so I mean, there are it's an elitism. Yes. And it doesn't that specific classism doesn't exist elsewhere in America, like it does in New Orleans because two things happening. First of all, there's the European influences on the city. I think that's a big part of it. But second of all, the geography.

Ashley: Right. The nature

Joel: of the geography in New Orleans means there are really outside the garden district. The garden district, this is not exactly true of anymore. But generally in New Orleans, you don't have rich neighborhoods and poor neighborhoods. You have a very wealthy home. Right next door to a home that's been owned for generations by the same family and is in disrepair. And, you know, there's seventeen members of the family living in it, etcetera, etcetera. And that happens over and over again up and down every street -- Right. -- you know, in the Garden District specifically, the property there is so high valued and has been wealthy for so long. It's less of an issue. But for most of the city, you have this intermingling of the classes. And so it does matter what high school you went to, what accent you speak with, you know, etcetera, etcetera, what your daddy did, all these things matter. And here they're calling it out. Right. Are you Cajun? Are you CRIOL? Yes. Cajun or CRIOL, exactly. That's anywhere else in the world you don't really understand the difference there. But here it matters, and and I think I hope there is still that story to be told in Ciprian. Even more so, again, if Ciprian as a black man, would have the same sort of thing that Louis has where --

Ashley: Yeah. -- not only

Joel: do you have the outsider story of the vampire, but also you're a black man in America and especially the South, etcetera, etcetera. So I'm I'm interested to see what they do there. I'm sure recipient is gonna be a great character. I'm I'm sure that actor is gonna bring a lot to it. I'm sure they've got interesting stories to tell, but this lowborn New Orleans aspect of Michael is something that I really hope we do get somewhere in there. You know, it could come back up with with Merrick down the down the road as, like, the the wrong branch of the Mayfair family. But still, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that we get some of that.

Ashley: I love Eric Lightner so much. Really, when I found out, they were combining these characters first, I was like, what the fuck. How are they doing that? Because I thought is this gonna be an errand? Are they gonna make this all errand? Are they gonna make this all Michael? This is gonna be weird fuck. But like kind of combining them into a new character, I somehow find easier to accept if that makes sense. I don't know. But this book just totally reminded me of what a fucking fabulous chap Aaron Lightner is. I love that character. He's so he's so delightful. It's just one of those characters. Like like Pandora, you know, I love these characters that are not necessarily, you know, the main focus of everything. And he's just one that I was just I've always in my heart, I've always been like, oh, I love that guy. And this book really reminds me of why I love him. He's so he's so kind and careful with with Ronan and and and with and with Michael, you know, he's very careful with them and careful about introducing all this to Michael and trying to keep everybody safe. And but wanting wanting Michael to have all the information that he needs to have to be able to navigate this safely because it is a washed nest on a good day.

Joel: Boy, that's the truth, isn't it? I love Aaron Lightner too. I I love the Tallamaska period.

Ashley: How did you?

Joel: Hopeful that one of the things AMC is working on is a telemasca specific spin off. I would love to see, like, a tales of the telemasca where we literally get

Ashley: -- Yes.

Joel: -- individual anthology stories throughout history, one offs, you could tell any story you wanted to from the books or not. You know, as long as it fit into canon. Anyway, I think there's a lot of potential there. I hope AMC follows up on it. Well,

Ashley: there are some yeah. There's so many little there's so many little things that are in the books that you could that are never they're just mentioned, they never talked about again, that you could just pull and make a really cool little you could make a really great story or really great. Like, you said a one off kind of like how the first, like, the first season of how the first season of agents of yield felt.

Joel: War even goes specifically to what AMC has done with The Walking Dead. They've got the tales of The Walking Dead or whatever where it's anthology style, individual one episode stories of, you know, different times, different places, different characters. Some of them come from the other TV series, some of them don't. And I think that's exactly the way that that that this could work. Anyway, all of that being said, the book itself has a line, I think, that is exactly it speaks to this idea of Aaron sort of being written out of the TV series. He and Michael, which by the way, you and I have already joked about it in previous episodes, a lot of this book is Aaron and Michael sitting down with each other explaining to one another what they each know. So, like, that's hard to do on screen. Right?

Ashley: Right. Right. Yeah. It's not it's not compelling. Towards

Joel: the end of the book right before, you know, Michael's wrapping up his reading of the history and they're getting ready to reintroduce him to Rowan somehow. And Aaron says to Michael, I'm not one of the players now Michael. I didn't see the visions. I love the character of Aaron Lightner. And the moments when it seems like he's gonna be ingratiated into the Mayfair family and all the folks are just gonna live happily ever after on the first street. I those are wonderful. I get a glimpse there, and I'm like, oh, that would be fantastic. Right. Erin has echoes of David Talbot, of course.

Ashley: Yeah. I

Joel: love the character of David Talbot. The Talomaska is awesome. I want more of them always, but genuinely, these two characters don't both need to exist in this adaptation. And as long as they keep a handful of characteristics of each one, I think it's going to be fine. Grieves I guess, needs to be a gentleman. We need an old I mean, degrees isn't old, obviously. But I do want someone who approaches all of this in sort of the gentlemanly

Ashley: fashion that

Joel: Aaron does.

Ashley: With a little Scravitas, you know? He

Joel: even Yes. Well, I mean, like, even when he first tells Michael what's going on, you know, he's like Michael, here's the truth. If you don't like it, that's fine. I'll leave you alone. But if you would like it, I've got more, you know. Right. And boy, yeah, I I hope I hope we get a little of that. I hope we get a little of that from from Ciprian. Even if he is the the lowborn New Orleans kid, maybe he spent his entire life with you know, adopted into the Tallamaska as a as a youth or something and has been raised overseas. I don't know. I'm gonna miss Erin. But I think it's I think it's a good choice. I think it's a good choice in the end. Let's talk about our leading relationship.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. I agree. I'm excited now. I mean, once I realize was a new guy. Yes. We haven't yeah. We haven't we've been talking for, like, a half hour and we haven't even really really touched on Ronan who is Rowan, who is the lead character of this tale?

Joel: So I've been watching the first season of the White Lotus finally.

Ashley: Kelly. Oh. Kelly's like both through that. It's so wild. I love it. It's crazy.

Joel: Right. You're really I it's

Ashley: fucking rich people. I

Joel: guess I'm, like, five episodes in now, and I was telling her last night, every single character on this show seems like they must be related to Michael Scott from the office.

Ashley: Oh my god. There's Yeah.

Joel: There's so everyone on the show is so fucking awkward, though, like painfully awkward.

Ashley: That's so real. That that's one of the things that

Joel: makes it so creepily real. Yes. No. And and having done a few retail you know, service jobs in my life. Oh, geez. Absolutely understand. They're they're no. All of these people exist. But Alexandria Dedario, of course, is in first season of the White Lotus. She's she's great there. She is our Rowan in the TV series. And so I wanted to get I mean, I've seen her in other things obviously, but I wanted to get a little time with her recently from something that was, you know, critically acclaimed and she was supposedly bringing her a game. And let me see what she has to bring to the table. She is a great actress, and I'm looking forward to seeing her in this role. But the Rowan on Page is just so different than anything I can see or imagine Alexandra doing, it's gonna be really interesting to see the Rowan that we bring to the screen. Whereas, with interview with the vampire, we talked about what a amazing off the page translation Sam reads LaSitte was. I think this is going to be more akin to Louis, where there are perhaps aspects of the character that are very true to the character and you know, bring her to life, bring her into life in a way that we couldn't have imagined before, and yet maybe bring more agency or some more interesting avenues to the character on screen than we even have on page. That's what I'm hoping for you.

Ashley: I am hoping for that too. My

Joel: Rowan is written is not something that I can really imagine Alexandra doing.

Ashley: Yeah. Rowan's a hard ass. Like, she's a tough broad, and she demanding and she's she's very she knows what she wants and she goes and gets it. You know, that's that's her way and that's you know you know, she's accidentally killing people on the side, you know, just for giggles. So she's, you know, she's not this wide eyed girly girl. And and that is my only, like, my concern about how Rowan is being portrayed, makes me kind just from the just from the previews, makes me a little nervous. She's gonna be a little too wide eyed and like damsel in distress, which I do not want. I do not want that for her. I think character is is not really structured that way except with in relation sometimes she lets herself be that way with Michael. Right.

Joel: Well, and she eventually becomes that way with Lascher as well. So I think there I think I think the not subservient. I think I think there is a I think the same part of Rowan, honestly, that is into rate fantasy. I think that part of Rowan wants to be led and controlled. And and honestly, I hadn't thought about it until literally I just set it out loud. But maybe that's something that's like bread into the Mathers by Lascher on purpose. Right? Like, maybe there is a little

Ashley: Oh. Gotcha. And we're thinking about that. That's so fucking gross. Oh, no. Like, he makes them like that in some way. Right. So that he

Joel: goes,

Ashley: That's so awful. That's a gross thought. I'm gonna have that in mind while I'm continuing this book series.

Joel: It's I think it's absolutely like, it it is it is a messed up relationship and she is you know, it's interesting. Again, again, it didn't really occur to me until just now. But we have joked about this whole book series really being, like, genetic experiment by a a spirit?

Ashley: Yeah. That's yeah. So

Joel: in in some ways, this is akin to, like, Anakin from the Star Wars universe. Right? Like, this is the idea of of the Sith and the Jedi for a thousand years were were thinking, okay, well, there's this thing coming and someday like a being will be born from the Force, etcetera, etcetera?

Ashley: Yeah. It's such a it's it's that chosen one trope. It's the it's Neo from fucking Matrix. You know, it's that chosen one trope. But in this situation, you know, she's been bred for this specific purpose, which is horrifying, which is to give Lasher a baby body. Well and Bless her wants a baby body. He wants to breathe the strongest which he can to make himself a baby body.

Joel: Okay. And that's where I wanna go to right now because I wanna talk about this and this we're jumping sort of way ahead here. We're kind of all over, but the births scene. We're

Ashley: all over the place.

Joel: The birth scene. And there are a couple of moments in the in the book before the birth scene where you kinda get a glimpse of this. But the the birth scene specifically was the one for me. I'm guessing this is gonna be the finale of season one. I don't think you cast Jack Houston as Lascher for him to be disembodied for very long. I think he's going to be I think he's gonna be in the flesh by season two. And if you're gonna do that, then you'll have this birth scene at the end of season.

Ashley: Yeah. That's how I figured it out.

Joel: This is like the John Carpenter's John Carpenter, the thing level.

Ashley: I hope it is. I want it to be horrifying.

Joel: The body horror as you Right. Nope. But it should be. And honestly, I think you should I I would love for this to be, like, some some CGI stuff too where we literally, like, go inside and see the fetus before it emerges even, like, as Lascher is you know, embedding himself in it. And then as he begins to to beg Rowan to work her mental powers on it, you know, her witchiness on it and and reform the cells and align them to his purposes. All of that stuff is described in the book is really fucking cool. And it occurs to me that on a budget, you could totally do that now honestly with a little bit of prepping, you know, if you save some of your special effects for later in the season. Anyway, I It's gonna be fucked up.

Ashley: Well, since this team in Seth doesn't have dragons, You got some money to spare. You know, they don't have to spend your money on dragons.

Joel: The thing that occurred to me for the first time in this read that it hadn't before. How does Rowan get sucked in? Right? Because she's not in my in my memory, it was almost like she was never a willing participant, but that's not true. Right.

Joel: She

Joel: runs away with Lasher effectively. She's hiding stuff from Michael and from Aaron with Lasher for a while even before the actual stuff all comes out. Why is it? She sucked in and seduced by two things. First of all first of all primarily, it's it's the promise of immortality. She believes through him she can understand how to not only live forever herself, but to literally like end the suffering of death for everyone, basically.

Ashley: And

Joel: then the second thing and that's, like, it tickles or as a doctor. It tickles or as a witch. It tickles or, like, power fantasies, the whole nine yards. But then the other thing It's his big imaginary cock. Like, she likes the fact that he can fuck her in a way that literally no man can. Well,

Ashley: that's very true. That's

Joel: when that's what I'm thinking about. Like, I think I think this is bred into them. I think he builds these women and has literally for generations to desire him, to be, you know, it's like a it's it's almost like a chemical addiction passed down through the generations. For this one thing that only he can provide effectively.

Ashley: Well and Carlotta was supposed to be the witch, you know, in her generation she was supposed to be the witch. And she was like, get the fuck out. You know? Like, it'll all mean it can. Yes. And not You know, she's she's one that was like, no. I told him no. And she's literally the only one of them that is able to do that. And I think it's because the old frigid bitch doesn't want a big cock. But I do think that there's something to be said I do think there's something to be said about the allure of this family too for Rowan because she has been sworn to her adoptive mother who is a may fear that she will never come home to her family. She will never get involved with all of this shit. Because that was the arrangement that was made when she was adopted. But now she has this opportunity to experience this family, and she's drawn in immediately by them. She's she's a immediately sucked in to their world, to their voices, to their accents, to the touch of their their skin, to the beautiful dresses they wear to, you know, the way that their hair blows in the humid breeze in New Orleans. You know, she's completely drawn to this drawn to these people. She wants live in that house immediately. You know? She's like, get the old dead bitch out of here. I'm a move in. So she does have this, like, determining nation.

Joel: Yes. No. A million percent. I think the family I think you're right. The family is a big draw for her too. I haven't seen the film yet. It's on my list to watch soon. There's a movie that just came out last year called The Invitation. Did you see the trailers for this?

Ashley: It's a song

Joel: African American woman who takes a, like, a DNA test. She takes the, you know, twenty three in me or whatever. And it she's got a distant cousin who ends up she meets him for lunch or a coffee or something. And this guy is like, oh my god, there's a big family wedding in England at this estate. You should come. And she's like, oh, I couldn't do that. And he's like, no. No. No. Absolutely. We'd love to have you out. Everybody wants to meet you. We'll pay for it. So she flies out. She goes to this wedding. It turns out the family is they're I I think from the trailer, if I'm remembering this right, I think maybe they're vampires. And it's the the point of the event is to find the new the vampire bride or something

Ashley: like that. She's

Joel: supposed to be the bride. It's from the same people who did the movie a couple years ago, ready or not, which was like, the crazy rich family has a wedding and it turns out they play a game on the wedding night and it's but it's deadly. Like, you have to you have to somebody dies in in the game every wedding night when people give me. Anyway, if you haven't seen that, that's very good too. Ready or not. God, rich people are so bored. Right. I know the that one, I can't think of her name, but the actress in in Ready or Not is the one that looks just like Margar Robbie. It's not Margar Robbie. It's the other one. And then the girl who was Kaleesi's right hand in Game of Thrones.

Ashley: Oh, I love her. You know who

Joel: I'm talking about?

Ashley: Yeah. Absolutely.

Joel: Did I do too? She plays the main she's the she's the main actress in the invitation. Anyway, the invitation is that same sort of deal. This that that woman doesn't have a family doesn't know where she comes from exactly. And she's offered this, you know, myth, this story of a family and jumps at it. There's a part of her who just needs to belong and needs to know where she comes from. And so that's very alluring. This is exactly the the --

Ashley: Yeah. -- the

Joel: case with Rowan. She this house is home She's got a name now. In this in the TV series of a Moore showed, they've they've taken away the name of Mayfair even. At least in the book, she knows that she's adopted and the the adopted parents are actually Mayfair's themselves. They're just, you know, distantly removed from the the main branch or or and then removed also by choice and location. Anyway, that is very interesting to me. I do think there's a moment though towards the end here that I thought. Here's an example of where you can write this and make Rowan, you know, give her more agency, more, you know, personal directive, whatever. Rowan's so smart in this book. She's this brilliant neuroscientist, neurosurgeon. She's this incredibly gifted psychic etcetera, etcetera. She as we said earlier, she's just a tough broad. And yet, she goes with last year, like we because of the big imaginary cock at the end of the promise of immortality. And then at the very last minute, she is shocked and surprised and wants to stop when she realized how he plans to come through to the real world. I'm like, girl, you figured out the doorway thing. You're pregnant suddenly and you didn't even think about maybe your baby was gonna be involved in his fucking plans. Like Well, that never occurred to you until that moment.

Ashley: That's the thing about her. That's one of her weaknesses is that she's so fucking smart. It's the same thing that happened with Merrybeth. You're just so smart. You think that you can stay ahead of this shit. And that's also I think one of the reasons why he gloved on to Julian too was because he I don't think he could all he could ever really one hundred percent control Mary Beth the way he wanted you. Last year that is. But she thinks like, that's her Achilles heel on this is that she thinks she's got it figured out when, like, it's like, It's like me and Karl was saying, you don't understand what you're dealing with here. You can read a thousand book about this demon. You can read a thousand books about this spirit. You can talk to a thousand different people from the tele Oscar, and you will not understand what it is like to deal with Lascher until you were dealing it.

Joel: That's that's true. That's true. Like, he is just Like,

Ashley: I honestly think she thought she had him fold. Like, because it kinda plays off, like, I'm I'm kinda hot. I'm kinda weak. I'm kinda

Joel: don't.

Ashley: I don't know.

Joel: Well, even in the trailer, he says, you know, I'm bound to you. Yeah. I'm your I'm your servant. I'm your servant. And and Cortland says the same thing. Well, in in the end, in the book, as he's laying there, sort of strangling to death in this baby form. It was his big ass. He does end up saving him

Joel: right

Joel: She does end up saving him because she's prideful. She feels that she has the power to do it, and she wants to, finally, you know? I I want our Rowan in the TV series to have that kind of agency all the way through. Even if it makes her slightly more villainous in the whole affair, I I'm fine with that honestly. If I I just I don't want her to be along for the ride in the same way that Rowan is occasionally in the book. I'm okay, honestly, if our Michael who, you know, Ciprian or whatever, fills that role, I'm kind of okay if he is -- Yeah. -- because I do think that sort of the point of this is that this is a this is a damsel in distress and a and a and a charming handsome print story that is totally turned on its head. And But

Ashley: the monster is still a monster.

Joel: Which again, if you think about this well, but that's if you think about this being an elf story or a fairy story, you know, but it's one of those older elf stories or fairy stories where the elves and fairies were sort of nefarious and and -- Right. -- with the deals you made always sort of came to bite you in the ass in some way. That is exactly what this is here. Lasher has his own desires and they are not. The desires of his witches. No. And the witches will get some of what they want along the way, but it is a devil's bargain and there will be hell to pay in the end for all of them. Honestly. And and that's what I find so fascinating here. Man, in that seen, though, as he's laying there, and then afterwards, as he's recovering and sort of like finishing growing. And Rowan goes back and forth, between thinking about Lascher as like an experiment, and then as a baby, and then as a sex object

Ashley: -- Right. -- all at the same time. That is That is a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I need a Xanax about it. That's too much. It's too much. No. Just so you know, guys, no one should be those three things for you. No one should be a science experiment, a baby, and you're lover. That's not the same

Joel: person.

Joel: Listen. Nobody's nobody's telling you not to do your diaper fantasy, but you have to understand the person in the diaper is in fact a consenting adult.

Ashley: Right. Right. Right. Right. Absolutely. Put on your diaper, but know who's behind the pacifier.

Joel: So Ashley, let's let's project forward a little bit. Let's assume that this season is gonna work well and that AMC is gonna renew it maybe even early like they did interview with the Vampire First season two. How far do you think we get before we get more than just a mention of the vampire World. Already in season one of interview with the vampire, we got mentioned to the Mayfair sisters house there, but it was literally just in passing I'm guessing we'll get at least one or two of those that Tallahasco will mention that they follow vampires for instance

Ashley: or something like that.

Joel: But we won't actually meet any characters. There won't be real crossover this season. Do we get it in season two or is it further down the road? Do you think still before AMC starts intermingling.

Joel: I

Ashley: hope we start intermingling early. And that's mainly because I'll take all the same read I can get. Like, I am not I am not I mean, I'm I'm not proud. I'll take a peek where I can get him. And also just the idea of, you know, of of of it's fun. Everybody loves those crossover kind of things. You know, that's what's really fun about you know, I love that about Steven King. You know, there's little little Easter eggs hidden for you in his books. And and I like that I like the idea of that, you know, a little treat for us that love the vampires and vice versa to get them in the shows. You know, I think that it'll be It's a fun way to kind of incorporate your worlds. It's a fun way to make good use of your actors that you already have on your payroll, you know, that you already have are building a a fandom for. I just I think it it's a smart move, and I would I hope they do it sooner rather than later, but I assume will see some little things in passing. Maybe even a flip of the hair as someone walks past a witch. On the street.

Joel: I I feel like we'll go so I first of all, I think we're probably gonna get like telemasco reference or two in season two of interview with the Vampire. And then as you finish season two head into season three, You're gonna be talking about the Vampire L'Estat storyline. You're gonna be talking about heading into Queen of the damned probably.

Ashley: Right. And

Joel: in Queen of the damned especially as that, like, worldwide spanning story line happens, and Akasha awakes. I you could absolutely see characters from the May Fairs and from the Tallamaska that have appeared in the May Fairs series season one and two, then coming over to the Vampire Show for the Queen of the damn storyline. So that's my guess. That's when you'll start seeing them genuinely crossover, but we'll probably get some Tallamask admissions and you know, some things like that. Maybe another mention that Mayfair is generally in season two of of interview. But I think for vampires in this series, it'll be

Ashley: Or maybe a glimpse of the house and the background.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Something simple like that. But I I don't I think we'll go at least to season three before we actually get vampires over here with our witches in some fashion, maybe even further than that. You know, there's no reason to rush to the Merrick storyline. We got a lot stuff to

Ashley: get Oh, Jesus, please.

Joel: Is

Joel: proper and the

Ashley: Yeah. Don't rush. S s seltos. Take your time. Take your time. There's two more books here. Don't don't don't don't pull of Game of Thrones on us and outpace your source material for the love of all that's holy.

Joel: Well, and my thought is probably we're gonna get the the history of the Mayfair Witches, the the Tallamasca Files, so to speak, will get those storylines and flashback but it won't all be in season one. Right? You could tell those stories over the whole series. You know, if it goes five, six seasons, you could still be telling flashback. My fear is

Ashley: And people were concerned. I know that I I've been it's something I've seen a lot of fans concerned about fans of the books. Like, there's not a mention in the IMDB. We don't see any mention of Julian or Marybeth. You know, there's there's a lot of really important characters in the history of the Mayfair family that are not even mentioned. And a lot of people are kind of, you know, kind of bummed about that. And I don't think that it's necessarily a done deal. I don't think that that's necessarily means that we're not gonna get those stories. It just means we're maybe not gonna get them this season or maybe they're having to keep casting under their hat.

Joel: That was the knowing what they did with interview with the vampire with and again, in case you're only watching the Mayfair so far, I don't wanna spoil it, go back and listen to our episode. There, but there there was a casting, you know, reveal in the final episode that had sort of been hidden from the audience the whole time. That is entirely possible here. Some stunt casting, maybe they've got a big name for one of those or something that they're they're gonna keep under their hat until later in the season. But genuinely, there's so much story to tell in the modern era and in all of the eras of the past for the Mayfair family, that they may have just decided Julian's too big to sprinkle in. We want a bigger name for him. We're gonna have to wait to season two. We can give them a fuller role and, you know, and bring somebody in and make it worth their while and our while, etcetera. Right. I would not be I don't think they've written Julian out of the show. I think Julian is too important in a character and too beloved. I I think Julian's probably the favorite of the witches of as far as, like, if if you took a poll among the the fans.

Ashley: I think

Joel: he's probably the the top the top dog. And

Ashley: he is one of the witches. He is. He's I mean, the storm happens when he dies and everything that happens with with the ladies happens with Julian, you know. And I love that. I love I love the idea of like Julian and Marybeth kind of being two sides of the same coin in a lot of ways. You know, Mary Beth used to dress and drag and go running around the corner and, you know, I love that, you know. And and Julian was such a, you know, a fop in so many ways. It's just I I don't know. I love those characters, so I really do hope we see And I think that there is a huge opportunity for that. Like we said, this this book is huge. You know, a fifty hour audiobook has a lot of legs in it to, you know, to run-in different directions. So I'm sure that we're in good hands just as we were with our our suite vampires. And, I mean, we'll find out in the next couple of days.

Joel: Yeah. Absolutely. It's out there right now. Folks, go watch the first episode of the Mayfair which is from AMC Plus and AMC and Anne Rice and the Amodo Universe. It is out there for you. We will be back we will be back this weekend. In fact, talking about that first episode of AMC Plus' Mayfair, which is, then we will be back Monday night. As we said, five PM central. I think that's three PM Pacific time. On the Dorian app in a live stream. Dorian discussion club of the premiere episode, a sort of premiere party for that. I think we're gonna do the same thing again at the end of the season for the finale episode, but we'll give you more details between here and there. But but now we'll be back. Ashley, we'll be back every week.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. We're back to weekly. For

Joel: at least the next eight weeks. Yeah. I'm

Ashley: excited. It was weird getting used to being weekly. It was so weird to have time off. I mean, I appreciated it. It was cool to get a little rest, but it was very weird not to talk to you, Joel. I

Joel: agree, I agree. Once you get into the swing of it, you kinda miss it when we don't do it. So and just glancing forward to give you guys a glimpse, probably what we'll do is when we wrap up the May Fair Witches, series will will take about another month off. And then we'll come back with not only a couple of book episodes, Ashley, are gonna be reading the Vampire Armand and the Vampire or excuse me, Pandora during the off season. But I also wanna do a couple of episodes about some other stuff. I've got some ideas to do an episode specifically about Anne Rice's religious life and and her journey in and out of and back into and back out of the Catholic church. And maybe about some of the other books. We've got some mummy books that we still haven't

Ashley: -- Oh, god. Yes. -- we've read the first

Joel: one, we haven't read the second or third book.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. So, anyway, there's lots of stuff for us to get to. We'll try it. And there there's been some discussion even maybe about, hey, you guys should do commentary episodes for the for the first season of interview during the off season. So I do think we'll be more regular. We won't go away from months and months on in. Particularly because with production of interview with the Vampire season two, it's not even gonna start, I think, until the first of the year. Sometimes, you know, it's just now really beginning to ramp up. I don't think we're gonna get it in twenty twenty three. I think it's probably gonna be early twenty twenty four it'll probably drop about January of twenty twenty four. So we're not gonna sit out that long as the point. So look forward to more content stay subscribe to us, follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. And and go join one of our groups, join the Facebook group, join the Discord community No.

Ashley: No. No. The

Joel: thing specifically that I I've seen several people bring up in the Discord is like, hey, maybe in the off season do several people have suggested, oh, you guys ought to do an episode about x show or y show or z show or whatever. I don't think we're gonna do any other TV shows. In-depth. But what we might do is do like a what else are you watching kind of thing where Ashley will get you to bring three or four of, you know, your tip top favorites that you've watched recently or something that you adore, that you think our audience might enjoy, I'll do the same. That might be in the off season too. So We would love to hear those thoughts. If you've got some thoughts on some extra bonus episodes you'd like us to put out in between seasons, let us know. And in the meantime, get ready by going and watching the first episode of to Mayfair which is from AMC, Ashley. We will be back in just a day or two. Until then, we've been your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: And I am Ashley.

Joel: And we have been the articulate covenant.

Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coven. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes. Or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or at articulate coveben dot com, and share us with your AmRice loving friends.