You may be doing all the right things to build your website, but if no one’s seeing it, it’s not doing anything for you. Kevin Nichols, COO of Oechsli, joins the podcast to share how to evaluate and create a more robust digital presence.

John, do you ever go to a website and wonder, gosh, when was the last time they updated me on this? It looks a little stale. The graphics seem a little dated, the photos aren’t fresh, and it really doesn’t seem very optimized to your mobile phone. And you just think, Hmm, I wonder what’s going on with this company.

Julia, I don’t mean to bring you into this conversation, but I clearly remember a world without websites. Right? But some of the ones that I know, some of the ones I encounter seem like first generation websites, like they really haven’t changed since the first one launched. And to be honest with you, I don’t blame some of those advisors. Right. Because if it were me, I really don’t understand. I’m not good at the core components of what’s now just not a website, but what’s called a digital presence. And I love that term, the digital presence, because it’s not just your website, it’s really about all the things that may introduce you to potential new clients online.

And I am not an expert either. All I know is that it’s very frustrating when it doesn’t work. So I’m really excited to learn from Kevin Nichols today about all the ways to optimize one’s digital presence.

Well, I think it’s especially helpful, Julie, Even if someone has a digital presence and has been working at it. It’s always helpful to have an outside perspective, right, That maybe sparks a new idea or maybe affirms some of the things that you’ve been working on. But especially when it comes to websites, we joke on this upcoming episode with Kevin that sometimes if a financial professional says, Yeah, it’s been a little while since we’ve refreshed our website, it’s usually like ten years, right? So I think today’s conversation with Kevin is especially helpful in terms of the practical tips that he shared with us about thinking about digital presence and even narrowing that down, specifically your website and why that so important. So why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about Kevin Nichols and why we asked him on our podcast today?

Absolutely. Kevin is the CEO at Oechsli and the author of The Indispensable LinkedIn Sales Guide for Financial Advisors. He’s been a social media columnist for Wealth Management dot com for over ten years. He’s also the co-host of the popular podcast The Stephen and Kevin Show.

So let’s listen in to what Kevin Nicholls had to share with us about enhancing your digital presence and taking a look at that website of yours. Hi, I’m John.

And I’m Julie.

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing Podcast.

Every other week we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Kevin, Welcome to the Human Centric Investing Podcast. We’re delighted to have you here with us today.

Hey, Julie, I’m excited to be here.

Kevin, it’s good to see you again. And in today’s episode, we wanted to talk to you about this topic of digital presence. The Oechsli team that helped us out for funds put together some content around this concept of digital presence. But Kevin, maybe where we need to start is to hear from you what digital presence actually is comprised of, because I think a lot of advisors listening go straight to just our website, right? But but you say digital presence is more than just a website.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It’s really I mean, it’s any aspect of the consumer can find about you, right. And your business online. So that’s everything from obviously a website. But social profiles being one content that you’re creating on different platforms, whether it be, you know, YouTube videos or a podcast that you’re putting out, the all of that really melds together to create that quote unquote digital presence. And all of it’s important.

That makes sense. You know, oftentimes John and I are having discussions with financial professionals, and there are a lot of steps when putting these pieces together. And oftentimes one of the steps is compliance. And obviously, it’s a very crucial piece and it can be time consuming and onerous. And I think the question is, is it really worth it? Would you walk us through, from your perspective, the is it worth it to jump through and take the time to go through the compliance process to put these pieces together for our financial professional audience today? Because I know that they’re probably thinking that. Right. Do I do I put the energy and the time into this. Is it really worth the investment for what? I’ll get out of it on the other end. Well, you share your perspective on that, Kevin.

Yeah, I mean, I think we’re thinking about just again, the digital presence component and the compliance conversation. I mean, to be frank, I feel like a lot of advisors use it as an excuse. I think it’s an excuse not to get started. It’s a hurdle that they that they see in their way as opposed to one that they work with. I mean, I’m always like, Hey, I want to be friends with compliance. Like I want to work with compliance because I know that these things are important. And and a lot of times they’re just trying to protect you. So I see it more as an excuse for not taking action. I mean, I truly believe that we work with a lot of different firms at Oechsli across, you know, a lot. You know, again, a lot of firms and I’ve worked with compliance departments and. It’s just a matter of working with them on this stuff. I mean, there’s firms right now who are creating video content that you would never think in a million years would be doing video content already. But everyone is trying to to catch up. Is it worth it? Yeah. I mean, people are looking you up online. We have some research here at Oechsli that shows over 90% of the affluent are going to research you online at some point during the decision making process. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that every person is like finding a financial adviser online. That’s not the case, right? We know word of mouth is an important component there. But they’re still looking you up or they’re still you know, they’re going through that due diligence process because they should write your I mean, you’re talking about, you know, someone you’re trust and trusting with your your money. Right. So they’re going to look you up and it’s going to create a perception like we all make these snap decisions. We do We do this as consumers because we’re inundated with information. So we have to make quick snap decisions. So they’re doing that with you and whether you know it or not. And so I think it’s absolutely important and work with compliance. Make them make them your friend, if you can. So that’s my my opinion.

What you just said actually aligns very much with what our friends at the MIT lab have told us in terms of how people make decisions about who to work with. Right. At some point, even if it’s word of mouth, they will vet you online and even after you meet with them for the first time, they may go back and vet you again to see if what you told them kind of lines up with what they see in your digital presence. But in a moment, I want to get to kind of those steps, the first steps, if you will. I can’t imagine at this point that there are many financial professionals out there that don’t have a Web site of some sort. But as I think about how they progressed over time, it seemed like sometimes people were backed into creating a website for functional reasons, right, to allow my client to get to their account view or whatever it might be. But when you think about creating a digital presence, where’s the first place to start? Is it it? Is it with the brand of the practice? Is it trying to communicate values? I’m sure you’re going to say the answer is yes. But as you advise financial professionals, where do you start the process, whether you’re launching something new or rebranding an existing business?

Yeah, and I hate to sound like a stereotypical marketer in the sense of it starts with your target market. But I mean, it kind of does, right? I mean, it’s like, okay, who are we trying to attract? And let’s think about our overall messaging to that person. But, you know, when it comes to the creation process, it is a website. And there’s a very big difference to me and a website that is just for functional reasons. Or you know what, I have a website because everyone says I should have a website and it hasn’t been updated in a while as opposed to a website that really stands out and someone is impressed by. And I have some some research I wanted to share with you all. And if you’re familiar with Oechsli at all, you know, we’re a research based company. We do a lot of research on advisors and we’ve done, you know, I think we’ve done projects in the past with Hartford Funds, and I have some research here on impressions of a Poor Advisor website. So we basically asked affluent investors, like, what’s your impression of a website that is quote unquote poor? Now what is poor? That’s up to the interpretation of the of the individual. But I that I would say that most of us can kind of tell, like if we pull up a website and we’re like, Hey, what is this? Right? So here, here’s the impressions of a poor advisor website and it’s in ranking order number one. The adviser is seen as outdated. Number two, the adviser lacks attention to detail. And number three, adviser lacks resources. So when you think about we’re talking about digital first impressions today and you think that, you know, I tell I tell, hey, my neighbor, I told my neighbor, John, hey, you should talk to my financial advisor. But it’s word of mouth. What does John do? John looks him up and he makes an impression. And this is his impression, like, gosh, this adviser lacks resources. Like, that’s. I don’t think any adviser wants to make that impression. Right. So that’s why this stuff really, really matters. So, I mean, yes, there is some messaging and some some stuff up front that I think makes a lot of sense in terms of value propositions and whatnot. But when it comes to building that digital presence, I’m always looking at the website first for an adviser. We have advisors come to us and they want to jump into video, they want to jump into to podcast, but their website is lousy and I just feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

So I’m hearing you say, Kevin, that website obviously needs to be a dynamic living, breathing place. It can’t just be a one and done. You don’t create it and then have it just sit there and remain stale on the shelf for years and years. Obviously, if it’s not mobile optimized, that’s one thing that would be in my bonnet personally, because we do everything on our phone. When you go to a website and all of a sudden it’s really wonky when you’re on your phone. That’s one thing that turns me off immediately personally. But but so obviously it has to stay updated. It sounds like that can be potentially more damaging than even not having a website. What are some other hallmarks of a strong. Since we’re on the topic of websites right now, what are some other things that you would recommend if a financial professional was looking at his or her website right now saying, I want to make sure that I don’t fall into that poor category? In your opinion, what would be that quick checklist going through and saying, What should I make sure that I’ve covered?

Yeah, and I love that you mentioned mobile optimized. I mean, that’s it seems So.

You don’t want to get me fired up. We can talk about mobile optimization.

But it’s not obvious, right? Like a plenty of advisors don’t do it. You know, I had an advisor recently at a presentation asking me like, Hey, if you were going to give me a one piece of advice to, you know, increase the quality and the look and feel of my website, what would it be? And it wasn’t necessarily the provider, you know, the, the nuts and bolts of the whether you’re using a WordPress or some other sort of provider. It was or or even like a lot of animations or things like that. What it was was custom photography and videography. To me, it’s really hard to have a stellar website without those components, without some really compelling evergreen video that’s that’s polished, that has professionals coming in the studio and, and working with you to create that brand video, that differentiators video, those kinds of things. And then to, I think the custom photography and videography. I mean, and I’m talking beyond your cell phone. I’m talking about some really stellar shots that elevate the look and feel of your brand. There’s a magazine in my neighborhood that gets distributed, and it’s kind of like the affluent magazine in the neighborhood, right? And you get it. And it has a lot of the doctors and dentists and attorneys in it. And I was flipping through that the other day. And this is again, this is one where I’m sure they pay a lot of money to be in this magazine. But the whole thing was filled with just custom photography and it looked beautiful. And I thought, you know, they’re doing that right? Like they’re doing it right. And so you’re not talking about a huge investment in your business, but you’re talking about one that will elevate that website quickly. Are there other components? Yeah, You know, good content on the website that’s that’s fresh and updated. And obviously Google loves that. I don’t want to get into SEO today, but Google loves that that fresh content, easy navigation, right? A you know, consistent color palette, you know, a good logo like there all of those things come together. But if I had to pick one where like, I could immediately elevate your website, it would be the photography videography.

So as we think about that website component, I had to chuckle to myself because you said you may be thinking to yourself, it’s been a while since you’ve updated your web page. I think for a lot of advisors, a while might be like ten years, right? Time gets away from us. True, But it’s interesting and I think we have to draw a distinction between the design elements of the website, what you’re trying to do with it, versus refreshing content and keeping. We’re not talking about just making sure that, you know, you have fresh content in there because that should be constant. But when we talk about you mentioned that custom photography and things like that, how important is it to understand what I’m trying to communicate through my website? And is that where you start or is there some other first step that we need to take aside from thinking about our target clients?

Yeah, I mean, copy that. Appeals to the target market copy. I mean, I always feel like and I tell advisors, like if, if a prospect is reading your website, they should feel like you’re reading their, their mind like those questions that they, they’re already thinking like I was working with an advisor the other day, we’re working on copy for the website and one of the pieces of copy we were putting in there was like, Have you been Googling how to build your own financial plan? Like, that kind of copy is one where they go, Oh my gosh, like, yeah, I have been doing that. Like I’ve. And so obviously compelling copy combined with some really nice visuals, simple navigation. I also think the trend towards simpler websites is I mean, I, you know, look, again, thinking about what Julie was saying about mobile, right? I’m not spending forever on the website. I need to know what you do. I need to be impressed by it. And then I need some good calls to action. And with calls to action, I. Easy scheduling, if I can do it occasionally in bed. Right. Something along those lines where I can schedule with you right then and there. It’s not like a a form I have to fill out. I also I always have two calls to action, some sort of like, Hey, let’s chat. Chat with me now. The second call to action would be, you know, you maybe want to subscribe to our newsletter or maybe you want to grab a a PDF or a document. But having those two, because not everyone’s ready to schedule with you right away. But those that’s another component, in my opinion, of a of a quality site.

Maybe if we move on from the website, what other pieces say? Say a financial professional has the website and it is pretty fresh and maybe they’ve been doing a dynamic job of that. What are some of the other key pieces of the footprint would you suggest that they have in place? Again, maybe for the first few steps of having this footprint that you believe really creates a strong digital presence?

Obviously. LinkedIn. Personal Account. LinkedIn Company Page. Facebook Business account. Some of those just essential components. And again, I know again, compliance. I know some advisors are going to be like, Oh, I can’t use this way, whether it’s, you know, maybe an Instagram account, YouTube page. What you’re looking at too, is with the visual components of it, outside of it being updated and having good content is a very cohesive brand, right? Like, I want I shouldn’t go to your LinkedIn profile and then go to your website and be like, Well, these are very, very different. Like, No, it should feel super cohesive across everything. I had a mentor years ago who told me and this guy worked at a huge company, huge firm, was head of marketing for them. And he said, Kevin, if you’re doing branding right, it should feel a little boring. And I was like, What do you mean? He was like, Well, you’re super consistent. Like, I mean, people just know it. They see that that logo, they see those colors, they see the the, the typeface or font selection, and they go, Oh, yeah, that’s it. And so you want to be really, really consistent across all those social channels as well as, you know, the website in itself.

That’s such a good point. I love that consistency. I always, when I’m chatting with teams, I sometimes will interview individual team members and I’ll ask them individually. Tell me about your team. And what I’m trying to listen for are some of those consistent words. And what I want to know is, am I hearing this say there’s five members of the team? Am I hearing the story of five different teams or am I hearing the story of one team? And it’s always very fascinating. And I’m with you. I want to hear the boring one story because I want to hear some of those keywords. Right? It doesn’t need to feel like it’s the same script, if you will. But are there those ten key words or phrases? Do I get the same feel like, wow, this really is one cohesive team? And that’s a fascinating exercise. Would you?

I love that.

Would you recommend then amongst teams having consistent words amongst LinkedIn profiles and each of their social media profiles, I would imagine to keep that thread of consistency there 100%.

Like, I mean, in our story, what is the story? Why? Why the name selection? You know, if I’m working with a brand new brand. So one of the things that will do it actually is we’ll have, you know, advisors come to us and they don’t even have a name, right? Or the name is their last name. And they’re like, Hey, I’m ready to kind of venture out from that a little bit. And I’m ready to add on more, more team members and I want to get out from under it, just being named after me and we’ll work on the name and then we work on a brand story, which is why the name selection What makes you different? How did you get into this? And that stuff should be consistent across all of those platforms. I love Julie you’re talking about, and I know today’s focus is digital presence, but you’re talking about just also the consistency between verbally communicating this stuff amongst team members. And we’ve had scenarios before where and the exercise you’re talking about is brilliant, especially if it were you doing it one on one with them where you’re like, Hey, tell me about what makes your team different. Yes, right. Or tell me, But you get a million different, you know, opinions right in it. Rarely is there some consistency there. I remember a team I was working with and we were interviewing one of the the assistants on the team and we said, hey, you know, tell me about, you know, your group and what makes you guys different. And she said something like, I work for the top sales rep at X, Y, Z Company. And we were all like, Oh no. Like, hopefully you’re not positioning it that way, right? And she was like, She was so, so so what you’re talking about is it’s going beyond digital, obviously. I think it should start with the digital and it should be consistent there. Then everyone should be kind of reciting from the same playbook and making it their own. Yes, a little bit more conversational, but it should it should feel consistent.

So, Kevin, what advice do you give to people like, if I were thinking about designing my web page, I think my problem would be I would want to throw everything in the kitchen sink in there, right? Because I’m so proud of my team, my practice, my team member, so on and so forth. How do you help people narrow down the core components of what really needs to be prominent in that simplified format?

Yeah. I mean, for most of them, the first thing that we’re looking at is the the hero image or hero video on the website. Wait. When someone logs in, what are they they met with? And then a really simple value statement, right? We help X accomplish Y through Z, right? Is a simple one that they could use as a simple formula that they could use. But it’s I’m not trying to be too clever with my site as well. Like I. I’ve heard all kinds of like examples of the five second test, but when someone logs into your website, they should know within 5 seconds, like what you do, who you serve, and maybe a little bit about why you’re different. But it should be crystal clear, and I actually love that test with you. You could have your spouse take a look at it and say like, okay, I’m going to give you this is the new mockup of our website. I’m going to give you 5 seconds to look at it and then kind of see what they pulled away. So really clear value proposition front and center about us is going to be another page that you really want on there. And it’s actually when we take a look at the analytics for the websites we run. It’s one of the most viewed viewed pages people check out and they want to read about the advisors, if you can, with that about us page. Share some personal components about the each adviser and make it interesting and a little little fun, but professional. I think that’s helpful. Your differentiators. That’s going to be another one. Your process. That would be another one. Your content, you know, whether it’s a blog feed or a video feed or a podcast feed, whatever it is that should be on there as well. Contact us, maybe a lead magnet and then you’re kind of getting into fringe territory, in my opinion. When you start adding on more and more and more and more. You know, when you build advisor websites and you build a lot of them, you realize that they share a lot of those same components. And when you when you the more you add when you take a look at navigation and what pages people are looking at, the more you realize that people are just going to some of the same ones over and over and over. So let’s make those really, really good. But that’s it. I mean, we usually say that seven I don’t know if I got seven, I’m off the top of my head, but I think it was pretty close.

Yeah, I think so.

Well, that’s great. Kevin, can I ask one final question before we wrap up? Just because I know that I’m asked this a lot by financial professionals and I would love your opinion just because of all of the coaching and consulting that you and your team do. But oftentimes I’m asked about team names and should they be should they consist of the last names of the financial advisors or should they be something like, you know, Evergreen Investment group or something more generic? What is what are your thoughts around team names as it pertains to kind of the specific names of the individuals versus something more, you know, generic, you know, like place or thing?

Yeah, I love that. Actually, next week before the podcast today I was working on names for for a team. I actually have three name. Name reveals is what we call them. And we go through like a whole discovery, a whole whole discovery process with the advisor to understand kind of what’s important to them and whatnot. We’ll talk to them about, you know, keeping the last name. But most of the time when we’re trying to build something that. Maybe one day we want to sell that was going to outlast us, right? I mean, and if you’re selling something and it’s, you know, Kevin Nichols Wealth management. Right. And we actually go through a lot of these, they’re going to want to change that name. They’re not going to want to be Nichols wealth, Right. Whatever it is. I mean, actually, that sounds pretty good because it.

Actually is pretty cool.

Going. It’s kind of cool, right? But but yeah, you’re going to want something that’s that’s a little bit more sustainable. So I get into more of like, tell me about, like how you work with clients and really what makes you stand out and that’s different. Tell me about your client base. Working with the team right now in South Carolina. And this team, this guy, he’s you know, he’s done very well, has a has a great client base, has a little over a hundred clients. And he said, you know, I was looking at it and I was kind of going through commonalities with my clients. And he said, probably half of my clients are hunters and his guys, like Avid Hunter, he’s in South Carolina, okay? And so he’s like, I’d love a name that kind of reflects the forest hunting, that culture, that kind of like, you know, the trailhead, the path that we go down, how all that. And that’s what he wants. He wants something, you know, that kind of reflects him and his personal attributes, but also his clients. So I’m a big fan of names that are that can outlast you a little bit. And I’ll tell you, it is not easy. It’s one of the hardest things that I think we do as a company for our creative team is coming up with names, because what you do naturally when you come up with the name is you immediately Google it and you find five other financial professionals who have that same name and you bang your head against the wall and you’re like, okay, we’re finding a totally unique name. Is is a little bit of a rarity, but finding one that’s not overly used is kind of what I’m shooting for as well, and one that’s proximity to me, not there’s not clear competition down the road. Who uses the same exact name.

It’s obvious to me, Kevin, You need to look for a financial partner named Dime so you can be nickels and dimes, right?

I mean, are you kidding me? Yeah, that sounds. That sounds. That sounds narrow. It sounds like.

You need us on your creative team.

Yeah, I do. John, you’re hired now. I’ll tell you. And I love the naming aspect, and I know we’re going down a different a different path. But what I tell advisors, because they come up with names, like, a lot of times I’ll come to us with names and I’ll say, when you answer the phone, imagine yourself saying like, I’m from X, y, z group, right? Does this sound cheesy? Little corny? Does it sound like it has some gravitas to the name? Does it sound like the I mean, the the application of it? Because sometimes when it’s just on paper and they’re thinking like, oh, this sounds amazing, and then they have to say it verbally, they’re a little embarrassed to say it verbally. So I there’s so much that goes into that naming process.

Or. Kevin, before we let you go, we have a you mentioned the about section on our website. Well, Julie and I actually have an about us process that we go through on our podcast. We call it the Lightning Round. So if you’re game, we like to get to know our guests a little bit better. We’re going to Rapid Fire, some questions at you and we want top of the mind responses just so our audience, they get to know Kevin Nichols a little bit better.

Oh, no. Okay. All right. No, Judge, if you want it off my head, don’t don’t judge me. Don’t judge.

Judgment.

Yeah, go ahead. You start.

Okay. On a scale of 1 to 10, Kevin, how good of a driver are you?

Nine.

Love it.

A nine. Do you want explanation? I am a slow driver. I am a cautious driver. I’ve been in, like, one accident my entire life, and that was someone else’s fault. So I’m pretty darn good.

So, Kevin, I have to ask, because you may have heard my dog in the background during this particular episode. Are you a dog person or a cat person?

Oh, gosh. You know, it’s funny, I grew up with cats and I like cats, but we just got a dog recently. We got a mini Bernard poodle. Her name is Birdie. Like a birdie in golf? Yeah. And I’m obsessed with her now. Like, I mean, this is like this dog to me is I mean, she I usually bring her to the office. I take her wherever I go. I love that dog, even though I don’t know if everyone in the office loves that dog. But. But. But I love that dog.

If I were your office mate, I would not be loving that. Just. Oh, boy, I’d be swiping right behind you. That’s just me.

Well, she doesn’t shed. She doesn’t shed. She’s one of those, you know, doodles anyway.

Okay, well, I might I.

I get it.

Kevin, What’s the best age?

2223. I feel like you’re in great shape. You can do pretty much anything you want to do. Can you rent a car at that age? I don’t know. It’s a 25 to rent a car.

I think it might be, I don’t know, five or 26 these days?

I don’t know. But you can do a lot. And. But I feel like you are in, like, peak performance. You act? Yeah. I look back at pictures of myself at 21 and 22, and I was like, Man, I wish I could go back in time. I think that’s it. Yeah.

Kevin, we know how full your plane is with consulting and everything that goes on it. Actually, you use a paper to do list or digital to do list.

Great question. I’m still paper. I have a little notebook. I mean, I have notes today that I’ve written up from for our conversation, but I have a little notebook, a little to do list, and start my morning off with most important task. I got a knock out. Usually it’s the eat that frog mentality. Brian Tracy like, what do I get my putting what am I putting off right? What am I putting off that I really need to knock out? And then after I do it, I feel good and then I have, you know, some work item, some personal items, always personal stuff on there. When you have a family and everything. But yeah, on paper Paper guy.

Doesn’t it feel good to cross the things off that list?

Oh it’s so true. It’s feeling so true. And I’ll tell you, I think I’m pretty decent with the to do list. My wife is like another level of it. I’ve never seen anything like it, so.

I like her already.

Oh, we. We go to the beach and it’s like a hundred point checklist of everything. I’m like, What is this? She’s like, Well, planned for everything in advance. And anyway.

I have a beach trip spreadsheet. There’s a tab in my spreadsheet for everything you need for the future.

You guys would be best for sure.

Yes. There you go. Kevin, what’s the ideal outside temperature?

Oh, that’s a good question. So I grew up in Southern California. That’s where I grew up. And, you know, people will say, well, San Diego and it’s like in the seventies and whatnot. I like it a little colder. I like it in like 68. I’m a I’m a sweater. So I sweat. I mean, not like I wear sweaters. I sweat naturally a lot. And maybe I’m revealing too much and I like it just a little crisp. I like the air, like to feel a little crisp for a 68 perfect temperature.

I grew up in California and I know Oechsli is based in Greensboro, North Carolina. Would you say you’re an East Coast person or a West Coast person? Overall, all things included.

Heart and soul. Grew up in California. I’m a West Coast person, but I love living in the state of North Carolina. I think there’s so many benefits and I like the seasons, but deep down, the West Coast is the best coast that makes it.

I hear you. Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

Oh, my gosh. Future for sure. Um, I think even if I traveled to the past and I had all the knowledge I have now, I hadn’t. I would have no way of explaining how a lot of this technology even works. Like, you would think that would be, like, an advantage, and I’d be super rich or something like I could, but I don’t think I could explain it anyway. So I think I want to go to the future and see where things have progressed.

Yeah. Kevin my last question. Would you rather read a book or listen to Audible?

I actually enjoy reading a book I like and I like a paperback book. Gosh, I’m making myself sound old, but I feel like, well, because I was presenting to an audience in New York like two or three weeks ago, and I made a reference to the psychology of influence, right, by Cialdini. And someone said, We don’t read books. And I was like, What? Like, I feel like that’s I mean, there’s something to me about sitting down and just tuning everything out and having a physical book in my hand, creasing the pages, highlighting some things that I like. I’m a physical book person.

Kevin, our last lightning round question What was the last TV show you watched?

Oh, gosh. Well, the last TV show that I really binged watched was succession. I don’t know if you’ve seen it. HBO, Max in.

The middle of it now.

So freakin good, right? The storyline is great. The acting is just superb.

Too many late nights just because I turn it off.

It’s so good. It’s so good. My wife says it’s too slow. And I’m like, No, no, no, no. You got to give it some time. Like, let it, let it build a little bit. Great show.

Agreed. Well, Kevin, we can’t thank you enough for being here with us today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And for those listening, if you’re interested in engaging Kevin and his team, they do engage with financial professionals to talk about all of these topics individually. So feel free to visit their website at Oechsli and they can help you expand your digital presence. So thank you again, Kevin. We really appreciate all of your knowledge and expertise.

Thanks for having me.

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