Today I am chatting with Multicultural wedding photographer Nick Rutter. With over 17 years in the wedding industry, Nick is known for his natural, creative and colourful photography. We talk about his journey so far, the lessons he's learnt along the way and how he challenges himself to keep his creativity alive.

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Visit Nicks website

Time Stamps:

00:30 - Starting a Journey in Multicultural Weddings

00:38 - The Journey of a Wedding Photographer

15:51 - The Journey of Learning and Growth in Photography

19:30 - Breaking into Multicultural Wedding Photography

26:43 - Exploring New Perspectives in Photography

38:07 - Shifting Trends in Wedding Photography

45:37 - The Impact of Social Media on Photography Business

Mentioned in this episode:

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I mean, you know, I had to take it in my stride. I mean, one of my first Indian weddings, I had never, you know, shot an Indian wedding before.

I'd never shot a pre wedding event like a howdy or a Mehdi with a henna.

So the first one I did was good sort of 10 years ago and then, and then became a lot more as I was pushing it a bit more and actually changing my SEO from targeting Bournemouth and Dorset to targeting more of the cities in which the multicultural weddings would happen.

I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger and you're listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.

If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you're in the right place. Let's get going with today's episode. Today I'm chatting with wedding photographer Nick Rutter.

He describes himself as a natural multicultural wedding photographer and he's captured over 400 weddings across his 17 years in the industry. Nick lives in one of my favorite places in the country, Bournemouth, but he travels across the UK and the world to shoot weddings.

Today I'm going to find out more about Nick's journey and the way he has seen the industry shift over the last 17 years. Nick, welcome to the podcast.

Hi, thanks for having me.

It is such a pleasure to have you. Especially, as I said in the intro, you're from one of my favorite places in the country.

Everyone has a happy place and one of my happy places is Hengusbury Head in Bournemouth. So are you Bournemouth Bournembred? Have you always been there?

Yeah, I lived here all my life. Yeah. I won't say for how many years, but yeah, I mean, you know, you can't really be Bournemouth, can you?

Like you said, Hangersbury Head, you've got the beaches, sandbanks as well, and then the forests and it's close to commuting on the motorways and stuff. It's not a bad place to live.

Yeah, no, it's absolutely stunning. And one day I hope that I'll return there. One day maybe when I retire I'll get back there.

But at the moment it's more for taking my children on holiday there so that they can also see my happy places. Now, let's move on from talking about Bournemouth, otherwise you'll have me there all Day.

What I love to do at the start of these episodes, Nick, is to just get to know a bit about the person who I'm chatting to. I think it's really important when people are listening to someone else that they understand where they've come from.

They understand the journey that it's taken them to get there. So we said in the intro, you've been in the industry 17 years. When was the first time that you remember actually picking up a camera?

Have you always been into photography or did it happen a bit later in life?

No, not really. My sister got into it first, just college and things.

And my dad's always been photographing various different things over the years and in fact he was in one of the wars taking photographs from airplanes. But it wasn't ever something that I considered or thought of as a career.

I started about 8, 16, started doing web and graphic design and just did it in my spare time and for event music events and things because I was heavily into music, playing drums and listening and going to C bands. And I just started to do bring my camera to events and started doing event for photography.

And then people seeing that and then asking for me to do the events. And then subsequently after that, people asking to. For me to do their wedding. And I was like, oh, really?

And I was like, yeah, we'll pay you like 50 quid or something. And I was like, okay, cool.

You know, and I could, you know, take a photograph, but I was classic amateur with basic SLR with, you know, a little flip flash on the top, automatic setting, not really knowing what I was doing. But I started to work for a friend of mine's design agency.

And so I thought, okay, well, I've done a few weddings, including one of my first weddings was my sister's wedding, where just like 16 of us went over to, I think it's Borgo Mazano in, oh, Tuscany in Italy.

One of my first weddings and her actually asking me to do just black and white photography, which is very kind of rare these days that a wedding would have just black and white. They'd have a variation of it. And that was, you know, one of my first kind of big weddings. If you actually didn't pay me, I did it for free.

But yeah, so I started to do a few weddings.

And so I had some weddings in terms of a portfolio under my belt and under my Belt to just then send out leaflets to people or ask local companies I knew locally that were a bridal place or something just to put my flyers in. And I started to get booked up. So much so that my first two years were probably sort of about 15 weddings.

Amazing. So did you do that straight after being let go from this other job then?

Did you just get let go and then think, right, that's it, I'm going to go full time in photography pretty much.

Because the design job was the first kind of full time job that I had really, even though I was kind of later in my Life, sort of 26, 24 maybe.

So I decided that because I hadn't had a full time job before and I was enjoying having, you know, X number of thousand pounds coming in a month, I need to get another job, you know, and quickly because I got a new car. Car because of things, you know, and all these expenses and stuff.

And so still living at home, you know, I tried to just work out business on my own and work out what I wanted to do. There's no real kind of business plan in place but just to try and get as much bookings as I can and be seen as much as I can.

And so over a few years, because a lot of people used to do advertising in magazines a lot more back then I would be seen everywhere. Everyone who would come to me to have a meeting would say, nick, we see your work everywhere.

Because I was just blitzing it, but I was, I was spending everything that I was earning effectively rather than actually making a profit as such.

Okay, well that brings me on to my next question then.

Because when I speak with people who've been in the industry a long time, one of the things I like to ask is about some of the mistakes you made along the way. So it sounds like maybe one of the first mistakes you made was maybe not charging enough so that you weren't profitable.

We see that a lot in our industry.

When people come into the industry, they come in, they come in really cheap to get the work and then very quickly realize they're not actually making much money. So was that one of the things? How long did it take you to learn that life lesson?

Well, I was learning on the job, you know, I was learning photography on the job, charging I think £500 a wedding, but because I was getting like 10 to 15 bookings a month and charging half of that up front I was earning really good money from the start but, but you only realize these things further down your career to think flip a neck. If I had doubled that back then, I be an okay during COVID you know, might actually have savings, you know.

But it's, yeah, it's one of those things where as well as learning on the job with photography, I was, was learning business at the same time whilst I was working.

I, I think I regret not speaking to someone about that, you know, to sort of say right, I want to set up a business doing photography, what do I need? So I didn't have an accountant for my first few years really working out of as a personal accountant which you to have a business account.

And then I'm forgetting not that I should have submitted details to HMRC and all those kind of things and think oh no. And then going back, having to go back and then doing that, thankfully it's all good, you know.

But yeah, I think I was amazed by other photographers seeing their caliber of work and just thinking flip a neck, how on earth do I get to the level that they're producing and then seeing their pricing and thinking okay, wow, well I can understand why they're changing charging this and you know, I need to sort of get up a little bit higher kind of thing. But the caliber of work wasn't there for me to be able to do that.

I think you always need to justify your, your worth to a certain extent but also learn your worth as well so that, you know, if I was still charging £500 now, you know, people would say to me, why aren't you charging a lot more than that? You know. And of course, you know, you completely learn that now with the effort that you do at weddings and also commercial work that I do as.

So where, at what point did you feel that your work started to get to a higher caliber? Was it that you invested in yourself and in some professional training? Did you just learn and develop and grow by shooting?

Did you work alongside other photographers? What were the things that you felt you did that helped you get to the caliber where you sit today?

So like I said, I was looking at different photographers work. I was back in the day I was only one of, I don't know, 20 photographers in Dorset who really had a good name. And now that's obviously changed.

You know, per county there's probably like 5,000 photographers, maybe not that many, but you know what I mean? It's a bit crazy now but the people that I were looking at, you know, I was Asking questions for them.

And I think only like five years into things, even though I had to buy a load of kit, I then replaced a lot of my kit very swiftly after different photographers would sort of mention different things about my work. Complementary and not complementary in some instances, which was educational and fine.

So I would change the prime lenses from a technical standpoint, letting in more light and being able to drop down F stops and not stay at kind of F4, F5 for photographers listening, you know.

And it just opened my world to how I was shooting, Shooting wide with different lenses and knowing more about kit and gear that could enhance my work.

And then over a period of time, I would then see different people's work that had a style to them, where I was just editing pretty basically, really, but good enough that I was happy with the work that I was producing. But I would see various different photographers work and just think, flipping heck, how do you do that?

You know, I mean, I kind of had the technical skill there. I was learning things and getting things right.

But some photographers will tell me, nick, we love your work and we like the sort of technical aspect of how you shoot. And I don't think of myself as a technical photographer at all. You know, I'm okay.

I think if people ask me to explain things, I would explain them quite layman's terms because I. I haven't really been brought up with photography.

I did, I studied advertising and marketing, actually, and part of the course was not photographing, but the history of photography, which was incredibly interesting. Robert Parr, the Magnum Film Agency, and all those guys who are amazing, like the war photographers. But.

So I thought I need to be more active here and actually get. Invest in tuition, proper tuition in the wedding industry. Now I'm in the wedding industry.

So I found a guy called Ross Harvey who I'm not sure is still shooting. Actually, this is just based off his Instagram not being too active.

But I mean, he, you know, Maybe sort of 10 years ago was everyone's like, Ross Harvey Flippenick.

His work is amazing and still is today, you know, And I thought, I wonder how much it would cost to actually go and see him and get some tuition from him. And he was very happy to come in for me to come and see him. I think he's like Norfolk kind of way where he was when I, when I met him.

And I literally just, just went to his house and spent the whole day with him and shooting as well, practically, but also the editing, which is, if people don't know photographing and editing, Absolutely goes hand in hand. And if you can nail both, you're going to be one of the best photographers in the world. So I thought I need to get better.

And I don't think I thought I want to get better so that I can charge more. I think I just wanted to get better and develop a better style. And so I was developing my.

What was back then my preset within lightroom when I edit, so that when I imported the photographs, it would do a lot of the work for me and then I would just tweak different, different things. And I just tried to shoot more in the way that he describes using the sun more, using shadows and light and then incorporating that into my work.

And, you know, soon, soon enough I was doing more kind of flash work as well.

And people, especially locally, more in Dorset and Bournemouth, which I was focusing on then, really started to see a style from me rather than just general kind of work. And that kind of happened over a few years.

And then I came across someone that a lot of photographers will know called Sam Heard, who's based out of D.C. in America. And he's probably one of the most creative photographers.

And especially when you talk about photographers to follow and to get tuition from, who actively gives tuition out there?

And even just like small, minute things about a lens he might post about and you'd be like, oh, okay, so you'd go to him about the next lenses coming out. Has Sam tested these lenses? I want to see him test it in real time. Shooting over a number of weddings before I purchased that.

Very, very different from thinking what Wex or any other camera store is sort of saying. And at the same time as seeing.

Seeing him and what he has to say was looking at his work and how he edits and how he shoots, and because he's shooting even more creatively than Ross did, it blew my mind. Think well, well, firstly, oh, you can create. You can be creative for a wedding.

You know, I think we're so used to a society that a wedding should be very. Look very weddingy and very nice and all this. And actually you can be creative with it as well and actually have more of a niche.

So I started going down that kind of route, shooting much more creatively and thinking outside the box. And both him and Ross helped me to think outside the box more in the venues that I've done a million times.

And so I kind of made myself not do those obvious locations that you would think of at most wedding venues that you go to.

So say a barn, you might want to Go to a field for golden hour, you might want to go to some steps and all those kind of things where they would say, don't go there. Don't deliberately don't go there, because every other photographer is going to do that. And that doesn't make you think outside the box.

Makes you think outside the box is think about more about light and how the light is affecting the environment and what the light looks like on subject matter as well. So I started thinking a lot more out of the box. And then my creativity was a lot higher than it used to be, and couples started seeing that as well.

And actually, I don't think many photographers stay in the same lane.

They do evolve, and I'm kind of very glad that I did evolve and found them to sort of not mimic their work, because I'm still no way up near the caliber and they. The creative minds that they have. But I love tapping into that.

That in addition to capturing natural moments and capturing color and in color and environments and things as well, I love that.

I think there's two really key messages that are coming out from your story and from what you're saying. Number one is having a heart of humility.

So being willing to continue to learn, willing to have someone critique your work, being willing to go to someone and ask for help. I think sometimes as people, we can be too proud to do that, and it can hold us back. And I think that's definitely something people need to do.

I think one of the biggest things is to ask for help. I don't know many photographers who haven't, but I would sense that's more going down an ego route, really. Oh, I don't need any help.

You know, I'm very good as I am. I think I've never been in that kind of head space, really. The fact that I looked at other people's work to say, philippine, these guys are amazing.

How are they doing that? You know, made me push. I need some more tuition. Whereas now I'm. I'm in a nice groove. I'm not saying I don't need tuition.

There's plenty of things I want to correct to get even better.

But there's, you know, after 17 years, I'm very comfortable in terms of the caliber of work that I'm producing and the way that I'm doing it, you know, And I think I know that that then has worth and value now. Whereas back then, I wasn't even thinking about worth and value or to.

Or maybe even to be successful, you know, I don't Think that was even on my mind.

But these days, because there's probably more competition than there ever was, you know, I want to still be successful, but I don't want to give people the same old. Because now. And now I've done that for 17 years. That's boring. You know, you can book so many different photographers that are just going to book.

I was just going to shoot fairly, basically, and I want to give them better than basic, you know, because I can and because I want to.

And I don't want to be seen as just another photographer, because I think then would then give the question of why is anyone to book me if I'm just another photographer?

It was actually Kelly Mortimer, who you've had in here before, who I know very well, who sort of said to me, never price by looking at other photographers pricing for the reason being when you do that from a average photographer pricing or maybe even above average, which I think I planned in, what a lot of photographers do is they'll shoot quite similarly and because of that and charge the same kind of amount. If you imagine yourself as a client, you're just looking at thinking, everyone's shooting the same.

It looks all the same to me and they're all the same price. How on earth do I make a decision about who just booked for my wedding?

Because it's not really based on price, it's not really based on the photography, because it all looks the same.

And so that's where she would say things like, well, you need to be a bit more niche and if you add more value to what you do and people can absolutely see that difference, they're willing to pay more.

And so most weddings that I've been doing over the last five, six years have been 12 plus hours, whereas most of the photographers that I know, they're doing only 10, maybe eight, sometimes up to 12. And that's become quite alien to me.

And especially doing more multicultural weddings, where it's more Indian weddings, the expectation is so much higher. And the expectation is, oh, you work from 7am till midnight, won't you? And be like, oh, yes, yes, I can. Yeah.

And then soon doing a few Indian weddings, you kind of think, I need to start charging more for this.

Because it's a lot of work doing that, you know, if you think 12 hours is a lot of work, you know, 15 to 17 hours is another level, you know, stamina and just still being on top of things, you know.

Yeah, amazing.

Well, that actually brings me on to my next question as well, because for people who Are listening and maybe haven't seen any clips of this conversation. I would best describe you as a British white male, but in your description, you talk about how you are a multicultural wedding photographer.

You shoot a lot of multicultural weddings. So how did that come about? How did you break into that market as a British white male? And how have you. What do you.

What do you like about working in that space?

I will tell you a small industry secret and about me as well. So through Covid, I think I already had about eight, about 8,000 followers.

Just through the years, adding people and then finding me and following me. I've been incredibly blessed by photographers messaging me saying, nick, we love your work. We love how you do this, this, this and this.

And I was like, oh, wow, that's. That's a. It's so nice when photographers say that, you know, that they.

They wish they could shoot the way that I do, because it means that I've obviously learned something through the years and doing an all right job, you know, rather than clients giving testimonials, you know, and things like that. But I think it was through Covid, where we had loads of time, you know, I don't know about you, but we had loads of time.

So I was adding lots of different people, following them on Instagram, following different venues they were following and liking and on posts and things and the type of venues that I want to shoot at as well. So hopefully that would become the type of bride that would book me.

So I started adding loads and then loads more people would see my work as I was posting, posting a heck of a load more than I am these days to be seen. So that hopefully after Covid, you know, we could actually go back to work.

And people have already heard of our name and the likes and the follows seem to go up quite a lot.

But because I was shooting a lot more creatively as well and loving the use of color a lot more, it would seem that a more diverse and multicultural couple were seeing my work. I couldn't tell you exactly that. It was always all through Instagram. I think it was through other ways as well.

But I think the difference in a black and white photographer and obviously a color photographer, but a color photographer who's deliberately using color and deliberately using their environments and thinking outside the box and thinking creatively. I think that spark of flash of color turns your head kind of thing. It's noticed kind of thing.

And so I was using my environments more and shooting that way, using color.

One of the ones I think I've posted on Instagram a few times is just a Sri Lankan groom and a Chinese bride just walking around Portsmouth and there was an EE billboard behind them. And I wasn't thinking about the E billboard, I was just thinking about the color yellow behind them.

And I knew through skill I can get rid of all that stuff on there and just make it a yellow background in a busy street. That's what I'm looking for. I'm thinking the end result rather than what's straight in front of me.

And so I started using color a lot more, using environments a lot more, Trying to actually spend more time with my couples, too. I don't generally take them away for an hour. I think that's just too long to do that unless they particularly want to do that.

But, you know, to take away sort of 20 minutes here, 30 minutes here, and have the use of different environments, that just means I can give more to them and a diverse range of photographs, not just, you know, what you might call your sort of standard wedding photos.

And, you know, more multicultural couples would obviously see the multicultural couples that I'm shooting, and for whatever reason, they're coming to me, which is lovely, you know. And so it has been Sri Lankan grooms or Sudanese couple, or actually either the groom of Sudanese is. She's Welsh.

The Indian wedding I've just done, she's Welsh and he's Hindu. Gujarati, I think. And I just started to be asked to do more of these kinds of weddings. I'm not. And hands up high. Like you said, you're a white male.

Yes, I am. And when I go to India, Indian shows, it's like, oh, Jackie, with the white guys. I think it's Nick, you know, because I've.

I've immersed myself in a different culture that I haven't been used to in previous years. And of course, you know, that culture, especially the Indian culture, uses a lot of Indian suppliers. And. And it's.

It's an interesting thing, but a blessing still that I think one event guy said to me, he brought his niece over to me to have a chat about photography. And he said, he's got like a London Cockney accent in it, mate. And he's like, look, Nick's. Nick's white, right? And he's like.

The other great thing about Nick is that he's not like other Indian photographers because he's white, because he's going to shoot differently to what an Indian culture would shoot, which is very posed for the most part. There are some other natural photographers out there, but, you know, he's like you've got a different perspective on things.

You're not shooting the same thing twice. And it goes back to any wedding venue.

I really don't like to shoot the done places because all it gives couples is the same photographs that everyone else has had.

And for me it's like, poor egg, you know, it's like, you know, we can do other things, you know, And I love the fact that actually the Indian culture particularly have embraced me for shooting more naturally rather than traditional. It said you had the camera up, everyone's looking at the camera and it's like, no, no, no, no, just go about your thing.

Do you do what you want to do? And then spend the time sneakily getting those natural photographs in them. And in fact the wording I just did.

I think this is really interesting that I said I would do his dad's 70th for free and if you love the work, like, would you book me for your multi day wedding? And he's like, yes. And I'm like, and the dad's paying for it.

So I was like, I've got to impress that, you know, if I did it for free, maybe I might get this wedding. Maybe an act of desperation, I don't know. But we'll see. Started doing the photographs very, very naturally. Some group shots as well.

And they wanted to keep me on for a few more hours. And I'm like, you know, I'm doing this for free, guys. And they're like, yeah, they're like, well, can we, can we pay for the extra hours? Yeah, sure.

So I actually then made money from doing it. I then edited them all, sent them all to them and the dad was like, I've never seen this before. Wow, this is so new to me.

You know, I completely get it now, Nick, you know, you've won me over. Absolutely, yeah, we'll hire you for our wedding for sure. And then they put me for their wedding.

So I did their healthy, which I'm working on at the moment, and their mendy and their wedding as well, you know, and so it's really nice that they've seen actually how powerful natural photography is. And not overly posed, overly looking at the camera.

I love that. So you've basically found a niche within a niche to make sure that you're standing out within the niche of multicultural weddings.

I think one of the things that sometimes scares people about moving into that market is trying to understand the traditions, understanding the cultures, how it's going to impact their business to do multi day weddings instead of just, just Single day weddings. How have you navigated all of those different things?

I mean, you know, I had to take it in my stride. I mean one of my first Indian weddings, I had never, you know, shot an Indian wedding before.

I'd never shot a pre wedding event like a howdy or a mendy with a henna and all those kind of things and what to expect and obviously culturally very different from my normal lifestyle, you know, so the first one I did was good sort of 10 years ago and then, and then became a lot more, as I was pushing it a bit more and actually changing my SEO from targeting Bournemouth and Dorset to targeting more of the cities in which the multicultural weddings would happen further north as well as more events and weddings in London.

So I think the first thing to say would be I didn't go into it researching so many different cultures, especially a Gujarati or a Sikh or a Punjabi culture to come in knowing everything and actually every single wedding I've done, they've all been different, they haven't all been, you know, from an English wedding, you know exactly what's going to happen apart from a few bits here and there that can change. So it was a nice learning process to do some of the pre wedding events to know what happens in those.

And to be honest, I only really needed to do a few to cotton onto it and to understand things.

And actually no matter what my faith is or was, I found that a lot of the ritual side of things and the faith side of things were actually really beautiful and actually I loved doing them which is why I was like, I really want to push this more and do these and because it's multi day it is a lot harder work. You know, compare that to an eight to ten hour standard English wedding.

It's three or four times the amount of work and you've got to be on top of it all the time, all day, have the energy to better do that. But there's just more colorful moments in it for me as well.

So again, ticking that box for me that I love color and the use of color and I could use that more especially for the healthy with the turmeric and, and obviously the difference in clothes with the saris and what the gentlemen wear as well, you know, completely different from what a standard English wedding would be.

So you know, any Asian couples listening, I hold my hands up to say I don't know every single thing about the Gujarati culture or Tamil culture or yeah, Sikh or Punjabi, but I know enough to be confident, to capture things and know when the moments are happening now because I've done quite a few. And that also brings me into the fusion wedding.

So, you know, it's not just one, one religion, one culture is then multiple, which is for me and as a person and to suit my character again, what a beautiful thing to bring in two different cultures together and maybe do separate things from, from his culture, from her culture or both cultures.

You know, there's Indian weddings now that it's, you know, female and female or male and male, which again is another beautiful thing that's happening as this industry grows.

So it's, it's been a very eye opening last kind of five, six years of doing more Indian weddings, but and a lot more hard work and charging more because of it.

And you know, when you come back to the computer to back up all the photographs and go through it, think this is going to take me two weeks flat to do just this one wedding which has then free wedding events before as well. Whereas I could edit a wedding within three or four days if I needed to.

But normally it's just a week, you know, so it's, it's been really, really interesting and a really good learning curve.

And for someone like you that clearly thrives on the creativity and thrives on doing things differently, doing things out of the box, it actually probably suits you very well to have weddings that aren't the same every time and that are doing things totally different and have new perspectives, new cultures, new things going on for you to shoot and continue to be creative. And your work is stunning. If anyone's listening to this and hasn't yet had a look at Nick's Instagram, do go and have a look at it.

Because the colors are beautiful, the locations are stunning. It's really, it is really beautiful work. You need to go and check it out. Now.

One of the things I noticed on your website, Nick, that I wanted to ask you about is that particularly when it comes to engagement photography, you have a statement on there that says you don't like to shoot the same location twice. How did that come about?

Yeah, well, it was probably about 10 years ago I started to be asked to do engagement shoots, which I hadn't really done before. And I Just thought I started doing local locations quite a lot and then the same ones would pop up quite a lot.

So down here would be Dodel Door, you know, the. The rock with the. The hole in it and the walk down and stuff. Once you've done that once, the walk back up is knackering. It's just.

It's like you walk down easy, but coming back up, it's like. I thought I'd be doing that again anytime soon, but people kept on asking for dirt or door and Hansbury Head and loads of different places.

I'm just like, I wonder if we could do something different, you know, and try and influence a couple more. And then I'd get other people saying, oh, we live in London, but we're getting married in Dorset or wherever else.

And then actually their ideas started to be quite interesting. And I thought, this is interesting that they've got a voucher to a gin distillery and so. Oh, Nick, would you.

Would you be happy to go to the gin distillery and do photographs of us doing this gin workshop or going to this place in Cheddar Gorge or going to the Natural History Museum or something like that? Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. And then you're in a new environment that you've never done before.

And often places, especially like London or Birmingham, they have so many different aspects to it, because we're now working in different environments with different buildings, with different light shining in. We've got elements that are affecting that light and it's really, really interesting.

And I thought, you know what, you know, I can't really choose where I'm going to do my wedding. That. That's at the. At the head of the. The couple, you know, they choose where their wedding is.

And, you know, if I say yes to them because I really want to do their wedding, I'll do it. But if it's somewhere I've shot so many times before and I feel just can't give them anything, you know, better than I've done before.

And if I have maybe another one that. That's coming in for the same day, I think I'd rather do the venue that I haven't done before, just to be a bit more interesting, you know, but.

But I can choose the engagement shoe location, or rather I can say to them, do, you know, I've done that one quite a few times before. Let's. Let's try and be a little bit more unique. And, you know, do you know that you can go anywhere you want to, literally, and.

And then they're Thinking, oh, oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So, so, you know, top of your head, oh, this is after like a wedding meeting. Where would you like to do. To do it?

Oh, we do live in London and, you know, we're getting married here in like a manor house. Might be quite, quite good to go somewhere that's a bit different to that, like maybe more industrial or something.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds really good to me as well.

And so, you know, it's then formed me sort of saying to couples, look, I don't shoot the same location twice price unless I've maybe like published it. I haven't published it before for people to see. You know, some couples don't always want their photographs to be online. Totally fine.

So, you know, I don't have to post that so I can do it again and that's fine. And maybe I'll have different ideas, but I, I think, I don't know about other photographers, but I kind of will remember what I've done before.

So I'd rather try and think of different things.

And like, when it comes to wedding venues use, there's only certain so many places you can shoot really in the moment to think, how can I be creative in this environment? And I've done that before, I've done that before. So it just opens things up.

And when it comes to color, you know, we know places in our cities where it has some really good color or some really interesting buildings.

And so that might be like one of the spots that I might go to when a couple says a certain place or it's part of the fun, I hope, for the couple as well. And, but, but up to now it has been. But it's part of the fun was just walking around trying to find things and to utilize things.

And we come up with some amazing things then when that happens. And the same for the wedding venue, you know, I think some couples will say, oh, have you shot this venue before?

So one of the things I need to do for Instagram, to have like some of those couples questions and then answer them to how I would answer it and to say, you know, I don't care, care what your venue has, you know, I couldn't care less. I couldn't care less what the other photographer's done there before.

Let's have a walk around with the time that we've got and see what we can create, you know, and then the reaction from a lot of people for a lot of venues I've done before would say, oh, where's that I haven't seen that before. And I'll say, oh, that's whatever venue. And they're like, no way. Wow, that's so different to what I've seen before. And I'm like, yes.

You know, and that's the kind of stuff that I'm going to be showing on Instagram.

I could show you loads of general wedding stuff that I've shot, you know, your classic shots, but I don't want to do that because every other photographer is doing that. You know, I think it's good in some cases to show those things for sure. But I'd rather show off the more power. Wow.

And creative ones because that's much more me. And that's why the more natural ones particularly as well, that's why people are booking me. They're not booking me because I'm very good at posing.

I'm not hands up high. I'm not good at posing. But I don't want to be, you know, I want the couple to just be themselves.

And after an engagement shoot, going back to that, they can see how completely easy it was and how that I'm really just putting them in environments, either telling them to look at each other or potentially looking at the camera. But most of the time, and what I learned from Russ Harvey was to get them to look at each other. They don't love me, they love each other.

So their emotion is going to happen when they look for each other. And if they just, just laugh immediately when they look at each other, great. That's exactly what I want because it's real.

Love that. I just love how creative you are. And I think that shines through and hopefully will continue to shine through.

I think shouting about it even louder because messages like I never shoot the same place twice, talking about why you use color, talking about this stuff that you're so passionate about is what sets you apart and is what makes you so different to.

You know, there may be 500 other photographers in Bournemouth, but I guarantee that probably at least 498 of them don't have the mindset that you have.

And that's what makes you special, that's what makes you unique, and that's what makes you attract the couples that want that creativity, that want that color and want something bold and beautiful. Now, before we close, I want to talk briefly about changes you've seen across the industry, because you have been in the industry 17 years.

We talked right at the beginning about how back in the day it was all about magazine advertising, which we know is is mostly a thing of the past now. How do you think the industry has shifted over the last 17 years and what are you seeing right now from couples?

Well, I think from a photography standpoint firstly I think all photographers know there's been trends and things and I was, you know, one of those people who went slightly into the vintage trend, you know, maybe 15 years ago kind of thing and then soon realized this looks horrible.

And I actually, you know, one of, one of my friends of mine said to me, imagine being the couple and thinking in 10 years time is that still going to look as good as it did back then as it does now? And most of the answers I could say when I was dabbling with different styles and things would be no, I would not appreciate that in 10 years time.

So I then started to edit a bit more clean so that it could be did stand the test of time.

Obviously we're seeing lots of different trends recently like the black and white blur, like deliberately making it blurred or the overly flashed kind of, they call it vogue style I think. But those things I look at and think and the reason I think is because I've been taught very differently.

So when I was taught by different photographers it was not too overly flash. Yet now it's very trendy to do so.

And the ones that I've seen is like I'm not sure I, I would, I wouldn't be comfortable delivering that to my couples. It looks actually amateurish, just my opinion, but it looks amateurish.

And then the ones where they've deliberately blurred it, I get it from a creative standpoint sometimes, but it seems like a lot of editorial photographers are doing it it.

And my worry, and I've posted this before on people discussing the same kind of things on different photography forums and things is that if you are a photographer known for doing a certain style and certain things and you have a very consistent work, which I think is very important that you have that you're not just all over the place, you know, you need to still do that and then these trends happen and you try a few things and then in amongst this beautiful work and maybe some of the best photographers in the country, in the world, and then you get some blurred black and white photographs and then these ultra flashed photographs and you kind of think that's different to what you're doing and I have done over the many years and maybe the work that I've followed you for, you know, it looks very different to what it was.

Are you sure you're just not jumping on a bandwagon there, there, you know, and then trying to justify it, you know, if it was like a very arty photographer and a lot of their work wasn't actually in focus, which, you know, for most photographers, be like, why is your work not in focus? Isn't that, like, the main thing? It should be, you know, composition as well. You know, all those things that you have to tick off as a photographer.

You know, it's a bit. I. I don't want couples, because they will. They'll look back at it and they'll think, think, you know, why do we choose that photographer?

Because I didn't like what he did with that. I much prefer the actual general photography, maybe, you know, and I don't shoot all creatively, not at all.

There's creative moments and there's creative versions of things that I like to showcase and that I like to give a couple. And if they love it, fantastic. And if they don't love it, they don't have to use it.

But it's not like I'm doing it for every single photograph, you know, So I just hope that those kind of trends won't.

I mean, they probably will, but they won't continue too much, you know, and for photographers, you know, be yourself still, don't, don't jump on bandwagons, because I don't think it helps them. It wouldn't help me to do that. I wouldn't get, you know, I'd get maybe a few more bookings because it's the now thing to do. But I don't really.

I don't care about the now thing to do. Do I care about what I do and what my clients would like?

You know, in terms of what the industry is doing right now, I would be very lucky to say, hey, business is amazing. I'm doing amazing, you know. Yeah, I can't take any more on. I'm up to the VAT threshold.

You know, actually, I can go above the threshold ten times, but I choose not to, you know, because I don't want to go by the fact business is not good. Business is not good for anyone at the moment. If it is, they're probably lying.

And unfortunately, a lot of photographers in the industry, you know, they do lie. They post like, you know, really, really good. And actually, if you're friends with them, you do know that they're struggling. I'm struggling.

I'm half down what I've. I should be this year and nobody's told me and I haven't worked out what the issue is because it is more couples than anything else.

But I think all these things do go hand in hand with the economy. We know individually personally that the economy is very tough for everyone.

One I think probably for myself I do generally attract a high spend couple.

Not a super expensive necessarily editorial kind of photographer where you know, they're spending 10, 20, 30,000 pounds on just their, their media team, but above average spend. So, you know, I'm, I'm mostly receiving around 3k to 4,5k mark for most of my weddings.

A lot of those clients who were spending that, that money are now no longer spending that.

I would probably think that's down to the economy, that they're no longer earning that extra cash that they used to have, that they can spend that little bit more on that photographer or that decoration stylist person that they actually really wanted but now can't fall, you know, or they weren't going to get videographer but now they can afford to do it. Now they're booking a content creator instead because they can't afford the quality of a videographer.

But we're also having Gen Z, Gen X, you know, coming through and things.

I had a really interesting conversation with a couple of videographer friends of mine the other day that they're searching for businesses via TikTok and I'm like. And not Google. And I'm like, what? I'm not on TikTok and flipping it.

I don't want to be in fact the day I have to dance on TikTok to get work, you know what I mean? It's like, it's probably the day I quit. You know, I, I don't need to be on TikTok. I don't want to be on TikTok. But is that the way that it's going?

Well, I have to be. In order to be a potential option for people. I, I think actually I would like to think that people actually are still the same that they used to be.

Even though money's not as good as it used to be for both parties in that I think that it's still the same process. You look at someone's work, you have to love their work and be excited about it.

And then you get in touch with them whatever way you want to get in touch with them. Whether it's DMing them, whether it's this came up as well, Snapchatting them.

It's like I don't have a Snapchat, you know, if it's, if it's whatsapping them, is it emailing them Great. It's still the same process in my mind, but they're still going to love the work.

In order to book you this, they still got to spend that time to research you and get used to you and, you know, and go from there. Really. I don't think anything else is going to really change too much. Just the way in which they're finding you.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a turbulent time in the industry. Thank you for your honesty.

I think one of the things I say a lot on this podcast is don't look left and right and compare yourself to what's going on on Instagram. Because like you said, it's not always the full truth. And actually we can only look at what we've done in the past and compare ourselves to that.

And it is a turbulent time. It's turbulent in the economy. I do believe there is still money and weddings and bookings out there.

One of the things we've discussed before is that definitely in the higher spend couples, we're seeing a shortening in the timeframe between engagement and booking and having their wedding rather than before. It was always consistently one to two years before the wedding.

Quite often now people are getting engaged and then booking and then having their wedding within six to nine to 12 months, months after the fact. I think that's a big change. But I do think one of the key messages that I've been saying a lot is that we are in a marketing overwhelm.

We are in this crazy TikTok, WhatsApp noisy culture. But one of the things we can do in that to stand out is to keep it simple and to remember that consistency is key.

So, yes, doing all this flashy new stuff may get you a short, quick win, but actually it may not be sustainable in the future. And so sometimes it's about having that consistency, continuing to have that belief in your work. Yes.

Being proactive and making sure you're getting in front of the right people. Yes. Making sure that we're being seen by enough people. Because if we're not seen by enough people, we'll never get the work.

But it's not about finding a quick fix that's going to change everything overnight. It's about being consistent and kind of working through those hurdles because it will come back.

If we put the time and energy into building relationships, to putting ourself out there, to reaching more people and being clear in our messaging and why we are worth booking and worth paying for, that's when we find success.

I think the other thing as well is that I think that even though the, the Gen Z, Gen Y generation is doing this now, then they're going to grow up like we grew up, you know, and I think times are going to change and also platforms are going to change. We don't know in two years time. Instagram might be a thing of the past. TikTok may be a thing of the past.

We'd have to try something new or go back to actually what has always worked and that. Searching on Google pretty much, or word of mouth, you know, for most people and through wedding planners and things like that, you know.

So I think that, I think the younger generation, they were kind of worrying about it and thinking we need to adapt to them. I think they will change because, you know, when they get full time jobs, what are they going to snapchat a business to get a job?

I very much doubt it. They're going to have to learn that they need to become more professional.

And you use that within your own personal life and you'll then use that to then contact people that you want a professional service from and not in a, a very, you know, sort of juvenile way.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well we have to look at the bigger brands and see what they're doing too. That's one of the things I say all the time.

Look at how the bigger brands are changing. They're not changing massively, but they're maybe making small shifts.

So allowing someone to message you via WhatsApp, if that's someone's preferred message, like now I can message my energy supplier and we can have a lovely old chat on WhatsApp if I choose to ra than going through virtual chat or rather than going through a phone call. So I think it's just being open to those options but without changing everything.

It was also in the news today about how a lot of couples are not liking customer service. That customer service has gone down quite substantially because they don't want to speak to an AI bot, they want to speak to a real human being.

So I think that that might be an interesting insight into it all as well.

Yeah, absolutely. A bit more human connection. And actually what I keep saying is we just need to get back out there.

We need to go back to the basics of meeting people, networking, building relationships, kind of like we had to do when we were starting in our businesses and kind of get word out, word of mouth out there. And I think when we're in the industry a long time, sometimes there comes seasons where we have to go and do that again. Nick.

It has Been such a pleasure talking to you, hearing more about your journey. As I said earlier, if people are interested in your work, they must go and have a look at your website. Go and have a look at your Instagram.

I always end the podcast with the same question. So I'm going to pose that to you now, which is what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business? Business.

Have you ever heard of a guy called Simon Squibb?

No.

That's fine. So he's the guy who's been quite sort of viral on Instagram and different platforms, asking what is your dream?

And going to people in the street and asking what their dream is and then potentially giving them money to make that dream come true or proving themselves first. Say, I want to be a cake maker.

Okay, I'll come back here tomorrow and give, you know, will you give me a cake that I can try and then I'll invest in you. You know, things are that. That really nice guy, what he's trying to promote is to change the educational system, which I thoroughly back him with.

Because we were not taught, even though I did advertising and marketing and business was part of that as a degree.

We're not told that in secondary school, which I think we really should be taught being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, being self employed, being a sole trader, so that when you finish your job, sorry, finish education, you can go into a job, freelance by yourself, do your own business. But we're not taught the ins and outs of it.

We're not taught the basic accountancy or the fact that, oh yeah, okay, you're going to need a logo, you're going to need a graphic designer to help you different things depending on what you're pushing.

You know, you're going to need help with a website, you're going to need help with marketing and SEO and PPC and meta ras and things and loads of other things I can't even think of at the moment. But we're not taught that in schools, they're things I think we should be taught a lot more of how to run a business.

Not just to learn your specific subject area and then find a job in it, because that doesn't always work out. In fact, my degree that I got, I used to be working for Bournemouth University. University.

And then I went to university because again, they ran out of money. So I thought, what do I do now? So I went to university.

But that job I got was with a friend of mine, not in advertising and marketing, but in web and graphic Design what I used to do before I started things, you know, And I've done a number of jobs still like that. So I didn't really need my degree for it and I didn't need my degree to be a photographer. I made that choice myself. And it was just an.

It just evolved for whatever reason.

So I think being taught more how to run a business, being an entrepreneur, because there's thousands of entrepreneurs that make a very good living better than us as an entrepreneur, and they had to learn all those things by themselves, step by step. So I think we're giving a little bit more information about that from a younger age, I think that would be.

And I wished I knew a lot more because I've made thousands of mistakes trying to run a business, knowing not how to run a business.

Absolutely. I'm all for that as well. I think it's really important.

I think we need to give children and young people much more insight into what it's like to run a business and give that as an option as well. So I hear you. I agree with you. And I think we all should be doing more to promote that as well. Nick, it has been such a pleasure.

Thank you for your time. If people want to find out more about your work or working with you, where are the best places for them to find you?

So my website, first and foremost, it's got everything on there that you'll need and any photographers you know. If you'd like to see my work as well, it's just. Nickrutterphotography.co.uk and on Instagram, I'm Nick Rutterphoto.

Fabulous. I will make sure that I put all of the links in the show notes. Nick, thank you so much for your time. It's been great chatting with you.

Thank you.

What an interesting conversation. Really enjoyed getting to know Nick, hearing more about his background, seeing how his creative vision flows through his work.

As I said a couple of times before, do go and have a look at his work because it really is stunning and I loved his vulnerability.

You know, sometimes we can hunt, hide behind the shiny Instagram photos and pretend that everything's great, but actually for all of us, sometimes we need to be honest that there's ups and there's downs in business, but it's what we do next that's the most important thing. I'll see you all next time.