In this episode, Jeff sits down with Rutger Katz, Founder of Neon Triforce and fractional VP of Revenue Operations, to unpack how modern RevOps teams should think beyond funnels and start managing revenue as a system.

Drawing on Winning by Design frameworks, lean manufacturing principles, and 15 years of consultancy experience, Rutger explains how to turn customer insights into action using models like the bow tie, why governance and decision rights matter more as companies scale, and how RevOps leaders can shift from ticket-takers to true strategic partners.