Come along with Nic & Kelsey for a chat that’s both wide-ranging and deeply rooted, exploring:

• the differentiated experience of empathy
• the distinction between intellectual and somatic assimilation of Human Design 
• learning to let ideas breathe and embracing creative mania, sometimes 
• disrupting the capitalist pipeline by leaning into the creative process 
• how their bodies (with sacral & emotional authorities) navigate the field of ideation 

…and more.

🧪 This episode's Lab Partners:

• Nic is a 4/6 Sacral Generator with Desire Motivation
• Kelsey is a 5/2 Emotional Manifestor with Innocence Motivation

You can find more about them and their other lab partners at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.

💖 Stay tuned: New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.

Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo

The laboratory is a space of intimacy and mirroring. I'm just gonna rip with it and see what wants to come out.

Something's happening. I was just thinking that.

A lab partner is someone who I can share my incomplete, uncooked, unfinished work with.

Laboratory feels like laboratory in general is a womb space for all of mothering and creation.

I'm having an embodied experience, stretchy like, vibrant in this so far. Relating in ways that feel energetically congruent for me. Relating to other people and relating to myself and in collaborative community.

As a human who helped me find.

The lightness and like the humor.

The creative process is fucking dope. And also it's fucking like humbling.

The moment here is to fall apart.

And be witnessed by all of us.

An incubator, a place to generate, to initiate, to guide, to mirror collaboratory stretching my capacity.

Lab Partners is a behind the scenes conversation series amongst eight folks who are in a season of experimentation with creativity, authenticity, relationship, collaboration and visibility. We're letting you in on our processes as we unpack them together.

Each of us speak the language of human design and some of us astrology too. These frameworks for awareness have supported our embodied differentiation and relational understanding.

We invite listeners to observe us through these lenses too.

Today's conversation is between me, Kelsey, a 5:2 emotional manifestor with innocence motivation, and.

Me, Nick Strack, a 4:6 sacral generator on the roof with Desire Motivation.

You can learn more about our astrology and designs in the show notes and find even more about us and our other collaborators@kelseyrosetort.com LabPartners well, I would love to hear because I'm paying so much more attention to my open head now, I think just in relationship with you, but I actually don't necessarily. Like I haven't gone after a recent like, what do you consider the open head to be about? Or what, what's the energy there? Or whatever.

So I'm curious if you have that.

Yeah. So yeah, the head center's my only completely open center. Is that true for you as well? No. Open head and open ego. Yeah.

So even just like my understanding of the difference between an undefined center and an open center like my. So much of my understanding of that mechanic comes from my experience of my head center.

Wow.

Because that's the only thing I have in myself as a case study to explore complete openness. Yeah. It feels like my experience with my open head center feels just so relevant to all things collaboratory. Maybe that's a good entry point.

One of the things that I'VE been really enjoying, but also has felt trying from like a not self place in regards to my open head center inside of the container of collaboratories.

Like, getting to just let there be so many ideas in my individual connections with you all and the kind of projects that you're working on and just like, let myself be like, what about this? What if it's this? What if it's this?

Yes.

And that wasn't something I was like, consciously. It wasn't consciously in mind in like designing collaboratory, but now that we're in it, I can see like, oh, yeah.

Like, you know, our openness is as much of a gift as our definition. And so my ability to, with my open head, just be like completely a sponge to all the ideas of the world, like, that's a part of what it.

That's a part of how I'm showing up in this container. I mean, that's part of how I show up, period.

Yeah, but yeah, just the ability to like, be, get to like get lost in that space of mental pressure and amplifying ideas and like, I don't know. You know, we talk about openness and the body graph as like where we're.

At least I talk about it this way, where we're like empathic to a certain extent. Right. Like traditional empathy, the way people tend to talk about it is like solar plexus empathy. Right.

Like really, I'm talking matter of factly, but maybe it's not true. Looking at your face, I was just.

Realizing my face was like, oh, my God. I never thought about empathy outside of the solar plexus.

Right.

So I'm like so excited to hear you continue. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's so interesting. Yeah.

Well, I think it made me, I think like thinking about it that way helped me tap into my differentiated experience of empathy.

Wow.

Because I think I thought I wasn't very empathic, which is interesting. I think a lot of that comes from so many of the people close to me in my life are very watery people astrologically. And I'm very fiery.

So I always saw myself in comparison as sparky take up space versus a lot of my best friends growing up. My partner, he's a cancer. My bestie growing up is a Pisces. And that's just like I get a lot of cancer and Pisces, specifically people in my world.

And so in comparison, I always felt like, oh, I'm not the soft, poetic, empathic type. And then in learning both my astrology and human design and getting to See more of the nuance of who I am.

Like, yes, I am this wild, sparky, fiery being. I am this closed aura. Right.

So there is an element of, like, it's not as soft presenting, maybe, but then in getting to know the texture of myself, first through my astrology and then through my design, I can see, like, oh, there's actually a lot of love that shows up in this way. There's a lot of empathy that shows up in this way.

And, you know, I can't compare my experience of openness and definition, really, to anyone else's from an experienced embodied place. But as intense as I imagine it is to have an undefined solar plexus and take in the emotional energy of the other, I can tell you it's also.

Also an intense experience to have an undefined sacral and take in the sacral energy of the other, you know? So I'm not sure at what point along the journey I, like, made this kind of universalization connection between empathy and openness.

But I certainly think of any undefined center in the body graph as, like, a place where we experience, yeah, empathy and, like, where we are empathic. And so bringing it back to the head center, which is our two open heads, loose idea of what we might talk about. Who knows where it's gonna go?

But, yeah, we'll name that here. That.

Part of the inspiration for coming together to chat on Lab Partners Together today is exploring our experience of the open head in the creative process and letting ideas get big and amplified and not trying to suffocate that part of the creative process. So I think we'll probably talk about that more. But, yeah, my experience of the open head center is very much like I am an antenna to any idea.

Like, there's a huge. Just open. And it's not just undefined. Right. It's open. So it's like a completely blank slate. I can hear it all. It's all up there.

Like, if it's in the air in any proximity to me, I will feel it. I will get that little peep, peep, peep, peep through my head center. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. I love hearing that. I'm just, like, nodding my head aggressively. I love hearing about your embodied experience of your open head.

I think that that's what I'm just, like, on the early end of noticing. And I don't think I'm even necessarily noticing my embodied experience of it so much as, like, almost, like, habits of trying to contain it.

That's where I feel like I'm noticing my Open head is like, where I'm making it, where I'm trying to make it come in more, like, contain it. And so I don't even know the feeling of, like, it's flowing free. I think. Yeah, I guess I. My embodied.

My embodied experience of it right now is really, like, a lot of containment. I guess that's where I'm at with it. So it's interesting to hear your. Like, to see your hands do that. Like, it's completely open.

Like, if it's in the air, I'm grabbing at it, like, whoa. I'm curious about how my deconditioning of my open head will just, like, what my embodied experience will turn into over time.

Yeah. I'm having, like, two streams of thoughts here. One is like, I'm just.

You and I have gotten really good at just naming every little insecurity as it peeps up with each other. So I'm going to do that. So I'm feeling like, almost like it's not like a wish.

Cause it's a lot lighter than that, but almost this, like, retroactive hesitancy that I already framed our potential topic through the framework of, like, open head. Because the way we got here was not through talking about mechanics. Right.

I mean, I think I kind of, like, stamped my mechanical understanding on it early.

But first we were having the lived, embodied experience together of what it's like to just let creative ideas, like, go and let them get big and explore them. And that's like. I just got, like, tingles saying that.

Cause I'm remembering that moment with you, and I'm remembering, like, naming something to you that I had been experiencing in my own relationship to some of what we've been exploring together in collaboratory. And it really resonated with you.

And I remember just feeling, like, really good in my heart space that I was able to articulate this thing and that it felt supportive for you in that moment in your creative process. And then I think it was like, a little later that I was like, this feels like open head stuff.

And so I'm like, wanting to talk about just the sensation of it. And I'm like, almost like there's part of me, like, slapping myself on the wrist for bringing in. Bringing in mechanics so immediately.

But I'm not actually, like, I don't actually have regret about it. I think I just wanted to, like, work this thing out because this is just how I operate.

Like, my brain goes to the mechanics so quickly, and I have an understanding of mechanics that's like, so both universal and nuanced that for me, going there, it feels like it actually helps to land the experience in the physical form. But I don't think that's the case for everyone. And I don't want, like.

I'm always worried about getting too technical and bringing people into their minds instead of, like, in the lived experience. So whether that's happening for you or listeners. Yeah, I'm just kind of, like, talking out loud about. I have an insecurity around that.

But I also have, like, I know myself, and I know my design, and I know my astrology, and I know that this is just, like, how I operate. So I know it's not a problem, you know, But I just wanted to, like, name that potential dichotomy.

That's so fascinating, because when I hear you talk about that, it's. I was noticing my own, like. Yeah, you start, like, for me, personally. Right. You started with mechanics. And then I, like, took.

Took that part and was like, here's my part. And I blew it up into the thing that I was trying, which felt like it came back to that sensation piece. And so we're.

We're the same thing.

We're back at sensation now, I feel like.

But it's, like, so interesting.

It's just so cute. Like, I love that you noticed and named the insecurity. Not to dismiss it. That's what this is. So cute felt like. Sorry.

No. Yeah. My insecurities are cute. I don't disagree.

I mean that.

Yeah.

In, like, the most loving way. Like, oh, my God, you're so cute.

Hi. Yeah. And then the other thing. Sorry, was there more to that?

No, that was it. It was just, like, I loved. I liked how we did that arc together.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that you're pointing out that we arrived to the same place just through very different mazes. Yours was really direct. Mine was emotional.

Authority is like, that sometimes, I think. But, yeah, the other thing I was thinking about is, like, my experience of my openness is so distinct because I have six centers defined.

Yeah.

Right. And so, like, when you're like, oh, I don't. I don't know about my open head. Like, you're not, like, placing your.

That part of your somatic experience as, like, succinctly as I kind of am. Right. Like, I'm sure there's lots of reasons that that's the case.

You know, even thinking about, like, my consecutive determination, like, the way I process things and digest my react. Reality is like, one singular thing at a time. Right. Like, very Simple.

And so, yeah, but also, in addition to the consecutive piece, I only have three undefined centers.

And when I think about how I was really, like, initiated into my experience of my openness through my experiment early on, it was like, I spent years understanding my experience of being an undefined sacral. And just like, almost exclusively, that is what was being consciously deconditioned, at least.

And then I had a period of time with my head center, and then I had a period of time with my Ajna center, and it was really like, one at a time. And also.

So I do think there's like, some consecutiveness in there, but I think it's also having so few undefined centers, it's, like, easier for me to name the places where I have this open empathy and the places where I can get kind of thwarted from my natural organic movement because of that. And in people with designs like yours, like, literally the opposite. Three defined, undefined. Right.

Like, I imagine it's just like, a lot fucking harder to be like, wait, what's. What? Like, it's just there's so. Yeah, you know what I mean?

I do. I'm just like, really?

I'm like, reaffirming that in myself, as I hear you talk about it, because I think sometimes I maybe even even hold myself to like, a. A consecutive standard of like, a human design learning and integration.

Like, my brain wants it to be like, one thing at a time or, like, step by step, or you do this first and then you do this thing next. And then I started thinking about, like, I'm calm touch. And while it doesn't. It doesn't have that same. Like, I was.

I was noticing that it doesn't have, like, a stepwise feel to it at all, but there is a.

There is a, like, fluidity and vibe thing to it, which actually feels very similar to my experience of, like, learning more about myself through my design. Like, it's been like, what feels interesting. Like, it hasn't been a.

A process that I could, like, name or put a framework to, probably, except that it would be, like, determined by my design. You know, it would be like, right. Desire plus focus plus, like, inner vision in the environment or something.

You know, that's part of why human design is so fucking incredible.

Like, I feel like my relationship to human design compared to my relationship to some other modalities, I would say astrology honestly follows behind this in a close second place. Here I am ranking things with. I was thinking we're both very left. So that's part of.

Part of our Connection and part of how we communicate as well, and part of this sort of. Yeah, linearity. But anyways, sorry. I burped. Not gonna try to hide it. I'm gonna burp again.

Amazing. Thank you. Let that out.

Divinely timed burps. They must be. Must have needed a pause. Yeah. Okay.

So the moment I, like, met human design, that phrase that some people, I guess some people, I'm like, I guess I think it's kind of weird to say meet human design, but also it feels that way. The moment.

The moment I, like, met this system of information that also, like, recalibrated my awareness and therefore my somatic experience to an extent. There was like, immediate attunement, immediate liberation in a way, from the shoulds.

Because everything I was learning about my design was showing me the really differentiated ways that I meet reality, that I meet information, and was showing me both the ways of, like, that I do it from a place of conditioning and the ways that I do it organically.

And so, yeah, I feel like there was just so much, like, permissing in my experience with myself learning the human design system, where I, like, really did not put much pressure on myself to access it in a certain way. And that felt. That felt distinctly different from how I'd come into a lot of other, like, languages and healing arts modalities up to that point.

Like, I let myself be a second line, you know, Like, I didn't try to force myself to build a super solid foundation. I was like, a little bit aware of what head and ajah not self stuff was, and I was meeting my own process and my study with that awareness.

So, like, if something would, you know, creep in, it was like, just very easy to be meta with myself and actually meet it from a place of, like, my true organic movement through the process and the material.

Okay, and that is fascinating for me. What were you gonna say?

Sorry, I don't remember. Go ahead. That feels more important. No, no, no.

I'm okay. I'm so fascinated hearing about your experience of how you moved through it like that, it.

That there was such permission giving just right at the beginning and that you were like, letting yourself be a second line. Even that part of it, I'm just like. In contrast to my experience, which felt so heavily mental for like four years.

She did, like, touch work and massage and just all kinds of different ways. Plus somatic experiencing where I was just, like, really rediscovering my experience of my body.

My nervous system had been, like, in a pretty consistently braced state for decades, and I didn't even realize that.

And it was almost like, for me, as, like, I had all of these, like, intellectual and mental, like, growing both rules and information, you know, like, it was all very messy of whatever I was taking in of human design. There was lots. And I.

It's not like I wasn't integrating things, but it felt like when I had this undercurrent of, like, somatic work happening, like, that made everything else just, like, drop in. I don't know.

That's where I feel like this last year has felt, like, lots of integration of a lot of things because I'm finally, like, getting into my body, paying attention to what my body has. And that's when I really. It felt like a dramatic shift from, like, mental to somatic. And then I suddenly was like, oh. Like I said, I get it now.

I get, oh. Like, yeah, yeah. So now I feel like I'm getting more of that nuanced relationship with it, but I feel like it was very clunky for a long time.

That's so fucking important, Nick, that you named that. And I'm so glad you did. Like, both for filling in my own.

My own, like, holes around my understanding of your trajectory to this moment and our work together, but also. Yeah, like, oh, my God. Okay, this is a whole can of worms here. Yes, I. Yeah. Okay. So I think I kind of made the mistake.

That's not the right word for it, but I had the, like, lived experience through my astrology practice and studies and my engagement with the astrology community, where I saw I had to learn kind of the hard way that just because someone speaks the language of this stuff does not mean that, like, the. I wanna say, like, divine lessons of it are actually, like, in their body and in their awareness. Right.

For people who speak astrology, this is some heresy I am delivering and have delivered about what the 11th house really means, what community really means. In my experience and perspective, all it means is we have something in common. We have a language or A hobby or an interest or a vision in common.

And so, yeah, I think early on with astrology, I was like, it was so groundbreaking for me learning that language. Like, not just what it meant about me that was groundbreaking, but specifically what it meant about reality.

When I, like when I found out for myself that this shit is legit. Holy shit.

You know, Like, I was raised, like, Catholic, but not like, I don't know, I don't know how my family would feel about me saying this, but, like, I didn't feel like our spirit, our religion, our spirituality was like a huge part of our life. It just felt like a thing we did.

And maybe that's not true for, like, I wouldn't assume that that's the case for like, my parents or other people in my family, but maybe it felt that way to me because it wasn't a spiritual framework that, like, fit me. And so when I found, like, I didn't think about religion a whole lot.

Like, it wasn't like, I mean, I'm a sag moon and rising, like, I'm always kind of philosophizing about belief and all of those things.

But when I found astrology and understood, like, oh, shit, like fractals, like, what's happening out there mirrors what's happening here in all these micro macro ways, like, that started to hit me. Everything changed.

I had this different access to love, or I guess I would say it brought my relationship to love and my access to love more to the surface of my experience in a comprehendable way. And so I was projecting that onto everyone else who spoke astrology. Right.

I was projecting, for me, the way astrology changed me was it gave me greater and more comprehensive access to like, acceptance and to this, like, reverence for differentiation and to surrender all things that have only expanded upon and became even clearer through my human design studies and human design experiment. But like, it gave me this, like, lived somatic proof in my life that, like, I didn't have to change anything. Everything about me is okay.

Everything about everyone is okay. Everything about our timing is okay. Like cycles, process. Like, it just made everything feel like God.

Wow.

In a way. And I projected that onto everyone.

So I thought everyone speaking these languages, everybody, you know, doing forecasting, everybody going to conferences, had this, like, connection to this, like, divine love and acceptance and forgiveness and was like wielding this information with spirit intentions that were, you know, at the similar frequency to mine, for lack of a better phrase, you know, And I found out that that wasn't true. And I had, I found out that that Wasn't true. And kind of moved through a whole process and wave and assimilation of that.

And then I found human design.

Oh, wow.

That's where I'm trying to get in all of this.

I'm hearing where you're getting.

Yeah. And so I walked into the human design, like space, whatever that means already. Like the jaded perhaps, but discerning perhaps. I.

And I was able to see and increasingly through my own experiment and through my own like honing my discernment, which I also often think about this as like connected to my taste cognition. But I don't know how true that is.

It just feels that way in my body with this like, yeah, ability to just be like, okay, that person's just speaking the language. That person, it's not in their body. Like, oh, that's an extremely mental, dogmatic orientation towards this concept within design.

And like I say that now. Yeah, I do think that was pretty true from the beginning, honestly. And it's only become more true.

So yeah, I don't know how related that is to what we're talking about, but it was feeling very present and I was just really appreciating you naming. Like there was an intellectual grasping of it, which doesn't mean that you weren't making progress or learning all that time.

But it's such a different thing to access it from up here. I'm like painting stripes with my hands at my head than to like actually feel it in your body. And so many different.

There's so many different conditions that are responsible for when and how and if that happens for any of us. Right.

So like I had decade long yoga practice before finding astrology and human design, which to me, my yoga practice taught me about the connection between mind, body. Right. It gave me years of experience practicing something in an intellectual way and then bringing it to a physical experience on my yoga mat.

That was a connection that my yoga teachers made for me really early on. So I'm applying this as I'm learning these other systems. And also I think a huge factor for me is my teachers.

Like, as you were naming your experience, I was like wondering, and I am wondering if you want to share, like, how did you come into human design? Who was showing it to you? What was that like?

And for me, I feel like I just had amazing teachers who were really embodied in their transmission of it right away. And so I feel lucky in that way. But even as I was saying this, I was like, that was true of my yoga teachers too.

I had yoga teachers right away that taught me that we weren't just practicing ideas, like pretty spiritual ideas and then pretty spiritual yoga poses. I had teachers that right from the beginning were like, making connections for me that it's all the same. So. Yeah, that's a lot.

No, well, I didn't. I loved it. I'm just really just sitting with the difference of my.

Just the ways that we moved through those different, like, life phases and how we each got to where we are now, where I'm like, when I have a conversation with you. We definitely both speak English. I speak some human design and like. But there is a, Like a clean. I don't.

There's like, like a something about the frequency where I'm just like.

Clear connection.

Clear connection. Thank you. Yes. And so I love hearing how your practice led you to your embodiment of where you're at today.

And then now thinking more about mine and your question about teachers.

I'm just like, I don't know that a single teacher of mine, even though I've had these, like, incredible intellectual teachers, I don't know that any of them really pointed to the body in a consistent enough way for me to understand the actual. Like, it's not just like, listen to your body or like, even when someone's like, strategy and authority, like, all of it.

I held so mentally and I think it took a long time, even like sacral experiments or like, I kind of. I feel like I got into human design.

I was doing a lot of teaching while I was gathering the lived experience in my body, but wasn't necessarily, like, speaking from that place.

Mm. Dude. I'm just even thinking so much about our profiles in our. In.

In this specific thing that we're pointing at right now in our differentiated accessing human design.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Like six line body. You didn't even necessarily need a really. Like, I was naming. My teachers were good at like, showing me how the mind body stuff connected.

Like, I was kind of trying to feel into. Is that why. You know. But if I like it sounds like from what you've told me, it's not even that.

It was not even a human design teacher that helped you feel the information landing in your body. It Was your own experience with somatic experiencing. It was your own experience with your body. Like your own six line body. Somatic experience.

Having to feel into the right. Like the, like. It wasn't. Didn't have anything to do necessarily with how human design was presented to you.

It was like you needed that long, true individual differentiated sixth line body experience.

Oh my God.

To access it in your own way. Right?

Yes. Yes. I had not even thought of it like that. But this, Yes. I keep talking about this body in the sixth line and now I'll be 40 next month.

So I'm like, well on my roofing times, but I also feel like. And I feel I've said this before and. And I just can feel that it's different. I'm like, whoa.

I feel like I'm understanding my experience with the roof very differently now. The more that I continue to connect with my body and continue to even notice the difference between like a congruent.

In some moments I can notice the difference between like a congruent want and a mental want, you know? And like being able to notice those differences more consistently feels gigantic for me.

Yeah.

But yeah, the body, that's where I'm just like, whoa. It really. I talk about my body all the fucking time now.

Yeah. I've only known you since you've had this like. Yeah. This more somatic download of it. When did you say you felt that shift start?

Because something happened to make me finally be like, okay, I want to look into Somatic Experiencing. So I don't remember what that thing was. Oh, it might have just been that I met somebody. Oh.

It's because I had a new friend who was a local, like a new in person friend who was a local Somatic Experience person. Yep. I know it's always going to come back to a person and then. But she was like a no. For working with her own friends.

And so she referred me to this person that I worked with for more than a year and who was incredible. Totally four six. Shit.

Fuck. That's cool.

Yeah.

So we got here from. You were like, what's your experience of the open head? Yeah.

And then I got insecure because I was like, we don't actually have to talk about mechanics. We're trying to talk about a human embodied experience that we've both had. But this was a, I think very like Interesting.

And to me, as a fifth line, feels like important side road to go down. I'm having, like. There's like a part of me that wants to kind of like, summarize this part we went on.

And I'm trying to sort through, like, do I actually want to do that or does it feel like it should? Yeah, I still don't know. My.

What would it be for?

Oh, good question. Yeah, it would be for me. And if I wanted to do it, I would already be doing it. Great question.

Moving on. I didn't actually have anywhere to move on to, though.

That's fine. The next thing will drop into our open heads at some point, I'm sure.

Well, I actually am.

There it is.

Yep.

Sorry.

I was seeing, and I don't even remember, I. I'm seeing the message I sent you on Discord of, like, ideas of what we might talk about.

I actually have it pulled up. Yeah. Oh, perfect.

Okay. So. Yeah, because there were some kind of like. There were some, like, not binary, but spectrumy or just like two word thingies.

Yeah. So we already kind of named for ourselves this morning. And for listeners, we loosely named what we envisioned we'd be talking about.

And it was like, so hard for me to do without naming fucking mechanics. Nick. It's my Jupiter in Gemini. That's how I think about it.

Astrologically, I wanna talk about big truths and things, but I have to do it through these languages that minimize it down to these little things. Anyways. Yeah. Jupiter and Detriment in Gemini, my chart ruler. Yeah. We were talking about, like, we were like, in a process with.

Yeah, let's like, lay the scene work for. To me, what was the seed of us arriving here today, month ago at this point?

Maybe it was like an idea or two ago of yours for a project you might focus on in this season.

And I feel like my experience of it at least was I was like, trying to, like, really fan the flames of something that I was sensing you were feeling energized about. And I was projecting my own experience onto, to an extent, as we all always are, of, like, trying.

I was, like, trying to give myself permission in my own process to get excited about big ideas. I was noticing that I tend to, for some reasons, at some times, try to temper the flame of excitement around stuff. And I was trying to just let.

I was in my own season of practicing, just going there, but also practicing not feeling embarrassed in the aftermath that I went there.

That, I think was how it was showing up for me having this almost like A vulnerability, hangover from embracing a manic moment of my wave through my open head. And so that was, I think if I'm remembering correctly, that was some of what was, in my own experience moving through me.

And then I was meeting you at this point where I was watching you feel excited about an idea. And my prerogative, for whatever reason in that moment was like, fan the flames. Let's go. Come on. Like, what could be here? What else could be here?

And so, yeah, I was kind of like talking to you with that prerogative. Was it innocence? Was it desire? I don't know, both in mind and, yeah, that to me. And I think I delivered it kind of like passively, like, as an aside.

But whatever I was talking about there to try to fan the flames, you really caught it. Like, there was like something that I was talking about that like, really resonated for you.

And then since then, you and we have been like, following this train of thought around what happens when we actually just let the ideas breathe. So, yeah, that was.

And I've heard it come up, like, through your voice and through your self reflective process that you've let me and other lab partners in on several times since then. And I started to realize that I wanted to talk to you about this more in depth.

And.

And so, yeah, some of the stuff that you wrote down a few days ago, a week ago, the 17th, three days ago. Time is crazy.

Wow.

Time that was coming up for you when we talked about, like, focusing in on this particular part of the human experience when it comes to creativity, was expansion and contraction. Getting unreasonably imaginative. I love that one. Getting big, getting small.

Building capacity to hold the tension of ideating without incongruently jumping to a how for a faux sense of. Of certainty.

Ask me how I know. Yeah, okay, I. That last one feels so sparky for me right now. Shall I run in that direction and see?

Tell me what's coming up. So these are Nick's words. Building capacity to hold the tension of ideating without incongruently jumping to a how for a faux sense of certainty.

Man, I'm also verbose to your comment.

Let's go.

Yeah. Yes.

People who listen to podcasts, like, listening to people who are verbose. I assume so. Unleash it.

Okay. Okay. Well, so what was when you read that sentence?

What I'm remembering in terms of this recent example is I was thinking about putting together a collection of, like, drawings, let's say, like, doodles. And then you came in with this idea of, like, Whoa. I can imagine it looking like this. This, like a coloring book, something.

Something like a hundred percent in the same vein of like, we're still ideating. And how my body registered it, though, when it came in was like, oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. It was very like, oh, Jesus Christ. There's.

There's this like, getting too real.

Yes. This like, like, you know, cartoon person breathing into a paper bag kind of a situation. And I was just like, that's what it be. It.

It was so obvious in me. I think that's what it was because when you sent that back, I.

My resistance and, like, my whole activation that I was experiencing felt so obvious to me that I was like, whoa, what's happening here?

And as we've continued to be in conversation about it, part of what I realized is like, sometimes the tempering that I try to do on an exciting idea is around like, oh, God, like every. Every time I add something new to the idea plate, it's almost like adding more uncertainties into just like anything that I put on the plate.

Then it, it's. It comes with this whole trail of uncertainties for how all of the questions that need to be answered in order for that thing to come into the world.

Right. So I'm putting this like.

Like I have habituated into orienting toward ideas, trying to take them from the idea state to the completion state in the second that the idea is presented to me, almost, you know, like, just trying to, like, shove it down the capitalism pipeline as fast as I can. And then like, boop, look here, it's turning into something ideally something I'm making money from. Okay, cool, now let's move on to the next.

And like, I just realized how I had not really built a great capacity in my nervous system to stay in the exciting but also tense kind of place of, whoa, these ideas sound cool. Whoa, this is something I want to explore more.

But like, oh, God, every time I think of something new, then it's like a laundry list of new things I have to do. So it's like that kind of like, literally how the idea dies inside of me before it ever has space to breathe.

I have to connect it to mechanics.

Yes.

What are you noticing, like, sacrally, when. When the ideas are feeling alive and you shut them down because of all the uncertainty, pressure, and when you don't. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, just tell me about your. Your sacral experience.

If you can name any of it, like the actual energy in your body of excitement versus all the Stuff in your head that's going, poke, poke. Figure this out.

Yeah, I definitely can. That's cool. I didn't know that I'd be able to, but, yeah, when I feel into it, there's like, a big burst of excitement. So if you imagine like, a.

Like a wave up against some rocks, it's like. Like this big splash of excitement. It's newness. It's like, oh, my God, what is this idea?

And then it's kind of like when I'm coming in with my mind, it's immediately trying to, like, build a. Some sort of a structure of containment around the wave.

But because the wave is now, like, it's already splashing down and going away, the containment has to be, like, even more and even more. Cause the water's going away, and it's just like a very stressful, like, trying to bottle energy that doesn't want to be bottled.

Kind of an experience. Yeah. And then the other way is, like, there's this huge splash, and I can feel the splash, and I can feel the tension of the splash waning.

But now I can also feel that the wa. My energy. What I'm noticing now, as I continue to move forward on this current project I'm working on, it's like I get, like a lit.

It's like I have a. I'm trying to picture this from above. It's like, okay, so the water energy comes in from the bottom, and I'm looking.

It looks like a maze that I'm looking at from the top, but water's gonna go through it somehow. I don't know. Gravity, but. But, like, I can only see up to the next door at a time. Like, my desire is. It's like, do this thing next.

I only get a little. I'm discovering I only actually get, like, a little burst of energy to do, like, a little part of the project. And then that shows me, like, ooh.

And then I can have a whole process in response to whatever that started, and then I go on to the next thing. And what I'm realizing now is I have no idea if this thing that I'm currently creating is going to be the final thing that comes out the other end.

But I now see it as a necessary step along the way, because in my process, like, I have to see it out and see it back or hear it back or whatever, like, to. To do my own internal process with it. And so I'm. It's like I'm. The energy wants to. It's like, go this way.

And then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go this way. And then the energy, like, unlocks for the next little part of the maze. It's like, okay, go this. Go this way now.

And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go this way now. Like, it just feels so much more, like, exciting, but also not like a dre. Not. Not a. Not a draining.

Like, this is the first initial huge crash of excitement. There is some, like, tempering in the sense of. Like, it's flowing into a. In my. And it feels very desire for me. Like, it's flowing into a.

Like, a channel that has very particular directions to it. I'm just. I don't get to know what those directions are until I encounter the next like. Like, things.

So fucking rich. I hope the noise gate setting doesn't plop out. What I just whispered. I whispered, so fucking rich. Yeah. Ugh.

It's like, what you just described is just such an. Like, it's such a. I can't help it. My mechanic's brain.

It's just such a perfect example of what I imagine it is to move through the world with only roots. Sacral G definition. Like, you have, right? Like that. What do you call it? The little. Your dumb motor.

The dumb little motor. Yeah, a dumb motor flying through space or whatever. Whatever.

Yeah, yeah. Like, the anchor for you, Nick, is your sacral motor. And in your case, connected to the root and the G. It's like, that's.

That's the signal you're getting from your body is vroom, vroom. Yep. Vroom, vroom. For this little stint right here in this direction. Vroom, vroom, vroom. Then that's it. And that's the wisdom of your body, right?

And that's how you navigate all of the openness. And I think a lot of the openness. Yeah, a lot of the. A lot of the openness.

Like, the dialogue from your openness that could potentially thwart you from trusting the dumb motor going, vroom, vroom, this way. At least for today. Vroom, vroom, this way. This is where we want to go. Like, the stuff I'm picking up on is ego stuff.

Obviously, some spleen stuff when it comes to money. Like, ego, spleen stuff, safety and value, and then other way around. Safety, spleen value, ego. But I think there's some safety in the ego, too.

I'm getting into the weeds a little bit. But ego is, like, where we deal with the material world, right?

So money stuff, not just for value and worthwhich are regularly what we talk about with ego, but also for being able to hack it in the material world. But then head and Ajna, right? Like the pressure to figure it all out. That's head stuff. And then the Ajna, like what's the next step?

What's the strategy, the certainty of it, right? So like what you're describing, I mean it's so beautiful.

Like you're just coming at it from such a six line way of like, this is how I experiencing it. This is how I'm experiencing it right now. This is how I have experienced it. Right. But I just, I see the simplicity of the mechanics so clearly in it.

And I, when I leaned my head back and whispered so rich.

I was just thinking about all the value that that articulation is gonna bring to anyone who tunes in, who is also a dumb little motor in terms of the wisdom of their body. Like I really imagine that's what it is to have sacral authority. I really do. And when I think about like my.

We were just, we were voice hunting about this a couple days ago, like maybe you could locate it more, more correctly than me. You had like pointed out something I'd said about it keeps coming back. Do you remember what I'm referring to?

Like an idea that keeps coming back or something.

Ugh, it's not coming back. I know what you're talking about.

I can't remember like the reason you brought it up, which might not matter. Open head. It might not matter. That's to me. That's to me. That's like open head shit. I'm just gonna name it in case I assume it's obvious.

But it might not be getting thwarted thinking about some detail that doesn't matter. So I do this constantly on podcasts and in classes and in one on ones constantly.

I'm just like, I'm following it, feeling, oh, this probably doesn't actually matter. Okay, let me try to come back. Right? That's open head shit. But that's what's happening when.

That's why I get distracted eight times in a single sentence. That's open hedged it. That's what's happening. But it's not bad. It's just how it is. See, it's what's happening right now.

That's what's happening when you're like, I want to draw these pictures, I want to explore this idea. And then your head's like, but over here, but over here.

And the thing is your little dumb motor, your sacral, that splash of wave on the rocks hitting the next edge of the maze and figuring out its next step. Like that is your body's wisdom helping, you know, from this huge loud field of everything where all the ideas and all the side quests come in.

Which one now, which one today? And it doesn't mean like those other ones won't matter at some point. Like, well, how will it make money? How will it land in physical form?

Who's it for? Like, all that stuff will matter probably, but not until sacral goes vroom, vroom now.

But that's like so scary for the mind because the mind thinks it's supposed to have it all figured out, right? And so I'm like, I'm just imagining what that would be like because I know what it's like to deal with mind.

I know what it's like specifically to deal with open head, undefined Ajna mind. But I know it through my experience of solar plexus authority. So it's like so fun to hear you talk about it from the sacral perspective.

And that's why I was bringing in this thing you brought up the other day where again, open head.

I can't remember the reason you were bringing it in, but it made me think about how different our experience with the open head and like the getting lost in the big ideas part is because you had referenced something I had said about like, I remember. Okay, yes, go.

You at the end of our call said, I think I have more ideas or something. You said, like, I think I have more somethings, but it might just be open head stuff. So I'll see what sticks around.

See what sticks around, yeah. So, so different.

I feel like maybe there's a way that that would resonate with you in your experience of navigating open head stuff from the core of the sacral. But for me, I think what I was speaking to directly in that moment is something that I don't have to think about it being.

I don't have to work this out in my mind anymore. It's just what happens now.

But I think it happens now as a result of my experiential process through what it is to have solar plexus authority, where I see that all the thinking, all the ideas, there's so many ways this could go, there's so many pressures. What am I supposed to think about? For me, my emotional process will loop around and loop around and it'll bring back the things that matter.

Because emotional authority, unlike sacral authority, it is an awareness authority. Right?

So it's not mental awareness, it's not thinking awareness, the way the mind is, but it's still awareness, which is really different than the sacral. The sacral is pure fucking energy. Vroom, vroom. Where are we going? There's no awareness tied to it. My authority. It does. There is energy.

So there is the component of, like, when I'm high on my wave, there's more energy for stuff.

So, like, there's a piece of that I can connect to, but I can't trust the energy at the high on its own because I would be doing everything all the time. That's like, pair the high of the emotional wave with the open head. It's like with an undefined fucking sacral. Right.

It's like I'm doing everything all the time. I'm never stopping.

But I know now that, like, the things that feel really exciting to me when I'm high on my wave, coming in through this antenna of my open ego, or. Sorry, I have a defined ego, my open head. Like, if I wait and I watch and there's still something to it.

Four highs later, or there's still something to it in a neutral, or, ooh, there's still something to it, even in a low. Then it's like, oh, okay, I'm meant to follow this. And there is. It's not like thinking necessarily, but it is awareness. Right.

There's an awareness that, like, oh, this is cumulative. This is coming together in a way. And that's so different from your version of waiting, that openness.

Waiting through that openness with the defined sacral.

Yeah. Because I'm thinking about just how I think my version of that process is almost similar.

But the difference is if an idea comes back, what I'm tracking for is like, if I have the energy for it right. Then, like, do I have the energy for this now? Whereas you're talking about those things come back.

You can't make the decision at any one place in your wave. Like, I.

What's around. Yeah.

Contrast. Yeah. Because for me, it probably. And now I'll be noticing it more because this is like, such a new thing for me to be paying attention to.

But I wonder if it's like I'm. I'm really trying to integrate. Not really trying to.

Like, it's not like a hard thing, but I'm just, like, really noticing my mind wanting to know outcomes. And so what I'm working on reminding myself of is like, we might not get to know that until we arrive there.

Like, just the outcome and the purpose of this is unknown to us, but if we know we have the Energy for it. Let's see.

Like, that's kind of the way that I'm, like, wanting to stay available for noticing what I do have the energy for without letting the mind hook into something too, like, tightly.

That brings me back to the question I asked. Not well, but then you gave us this beautiful depiction of the wave on the rocks in the maze. Like, what's it like when you're stifling that energy?

What does that feel like in your body when the wave clearly crashes? And then there's all the, like, peek, peek, peek. How, How. But how, when, why, where, what form? And then it doesn't. And then it gets suffocated.

Cause that's the thing that we, you know, originally came here to talk about. Is that experience suffocating. We talk. We talked about it, like, ideas. But I think what it is actually in your body is suffocating. A sacral flame.

Whoa.

Yeah, I. I think, because I'm really like, what is that like for me, that might be so normal for me that I'm only getting to experience the difference of it.

But it's like, along with all of these other variables that are kind of all happening at the same time around, like, the desire, innocence stuff and then the open head. And so I'm like, ooh, I wonder if.

Well, it's like, yeah, no, sorry, keep going.

Oh, I was just. I'm wondering if, like, the stifled sacral. I'm like, huh, I must know it.

I just don't know that I know it so clearly in this moment because it's probably so such a consistent. Yeah. Part of my daily experience.

Interesting.

Now that I'm gonna pay attention to it, I'll probably be like, whoa.

Well, you're, like, so good at seeing the connections between all the shit. I feel like I've watched you have several breakthroughs in the time we've been working together that you just, like, you ground. You ground.

It seems to me like you ground them so immediately in, like, your life, and it's like. It's all fractal. Right. So like you were saying, it's the innocence, desire stuff.

Let's also name something Nick and I talk about a lot is us, like, sharing this harmonic of motivation transference, but from the other side. So I have innocence motivation, Nick has desire motivation. So I think I'm kind of having fun exploring how they're two sides of the same coin.

And so even though we have each other's transference, they're kind of mirrors to each other. And so they're still Kind of operating on the same plane.

So to me, there's a lot in the third color desire, six color innocence about play, and it's just like, yeah, desire has teeth and specificity in the play, and innocence has, I don't know, no teeth.

Whimsy or.

Yeah, so, yeah, that's just been another, like, fun thing for both of us, I think, to kind of, like, watch and talk about in our experience. I almost feel like in some ways, I mean, I don't mean to.

To place this in a binary necessarily, but I think when I first came into studying color and specifically motivation, that variable, I, like, assumed that it would be harder for me to connect with and relate to people with desire. Because you're not self is my way of conceptualizing, and vice versa. But I actually don't feel that way at all.

I feel like we're tuned into the 36 thing, and it's not actually about. It's the frequency underneath, Right? So you in the clear frequency is desire, and me in the clear frequency is innocence.

And because they're both on this spectrum of, like. Spectrum's not the right word. Like this.

They're both tuned into the part of reality that is the 3 6, which is, to me, like, assimilation, experiential. Like, you know, we talk a lot about the three and the six having stuff in common on the profile level.

And then we get to color, and we're like, they're opposites. But yes, they're opposites in a way that they're the same. Anyways, that's open head, different trajectory.

But you were saying, like, it's all kind of assimilating at once for you, right? Like, what's actually true sacral availability, true sacral response. You're, like, reattuning to that in a more intense way right now.

And you're, like, looking at desire, motivation, and innocence transference at the same time. And like today and through this conversation, you're, like, really honing in on open head stuff.

And like, you were mentioning that, and the thing I almost interrupted you to say was, like, well, because it's all of it for you, right? Like. Like it's all that for you.

And any time you kind of like untangle a knot around your stuff, whether you do it through the understanding of an undefined center or through the understanding of what's to be sacredly led means, or you do it through seeing something in your mind as it transfers from desire to innocence and back and forth, like it's unlocking something that you get to apply to everything in your life.

Life.

And that's what I was starting to say a moment ago is that I've watched you have those unlocks and then I think I'm watching you just like sit into it in like every direction that you look in your life. Like it. It shows that you're able to make those connections so easefully. Maybe that's a six line body thing too.

You like assimilate it and then it's just there. It becomes part of the lens that everything in your life.

Yes. I was literally. Oh, it's so perfect because I was watching your body and I was like, oh, yeah. Well, it's easy because it's literally a sensation.

So like whenever the sensation shows up, then I'm aware of it where it's like not circumstantially dependent.

So it's so easy for me to bring it out into every area of my life because I'm aware of that sensation of incongruence or constraint or snuffing out my sacred, you know, like whatever I'm attuning myself to pay attention to. It is absent the mental context. It's the sensation. So I can touch into it in any circumstance where that thing is coming up. Yes.

That's the like we've been talking about, like the universalizing handshake between the five and the six, you know, like the fifth line can universalize in its message. The sixth line universalizes in its fucking body.

Oh my God.

Right?

Damn.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, shit. That is what I do.

Yeah.

Wow.

Cool.

Super. Yeah.

Okay. I feel like we could stop right now or I have like a. Yeah, I have an example of my own, like suffocating ideas that I could bring in.

Do you have a sense sacral of whether we're complete?

I would love to have another example.

Okay.

So I think the thing that's been coming up for me around suffocating ideas, I do think my experience of it is so different from yours having emotional authority because there is this sense of if I leave it behind, I'm not worried about missing it because it'll be back. If it needs to be in my awareness, it will come back. My emotional process will bring it back over and over and again.

Has it always been like that?

Yeah.

Wow. Okay.

I think so. Yeah. But I didn't used to trust that. Right.

So before I like, was really attuned to my emotional authority and like letting that guide my trajectory through time and space. I. So interesting the way I would get lost. Oh, is this innocence, desire. Okay.

The way I would get lost in my open head is like literally the opposite of you. Instead of suffocating ideas, I would feel like I undefined sacral. I would feel like I have to follow all of them.

I'd be like, oh, catch her, catch that one. Oh, don't miss it, don't miss it, don't miss it. And over time as I got to know like okay, those are your all that doesn't turn off.

All those ideas always there. And I told you in the beginning of my experiment it was all deconditioning the sacral. So I didn't realize I was doing head center deconditioning.

Now I can look back and realize it was, I was experiencing it all through not knowing when enough is enough. I was experiencing it all through the lens of like oh, I'm a non sacral, I don't have the energy to do all of this.

But I look back and I'm like, oh, I was deconditioning head center stuff. Right. And so the way that I've under.

I understand it and have I started this understanding a long time ago and it's just, you know, been verified through my somatic experience over and over again. Is that, that my authority and my, yeah, my energy. Like part of what makes me a manifestor, the motor. I have all three non sacred motors.

But part of that is my emotional authority. So when the emotional process stirs it up and it comes back through the wave and I have the emotional energy to begin, that's how I know.

Not because the idea's there, because the emotional clarity's there. That's how I know the ideas don't tell me to go.

But it's interesting because my not self experience was trying to go on all of the ideas from the mental pressure versus yours.

It seems like, or at least a vein of what you're talking about is like the ideas, the pressure was stopping you from letting the sacral move towards what it wanted to. And so yeah, I just, I wonder if that could be innocence desire. Like my desire transference was like getting fixated on the ideas.

So it was like you gotta move on that, you've gotta move on that versus your innocent transference is like we'll see if it happens. It happens like that. Like a feigned detachment.

Right, right.

And like we don't, we'll never know exactly what's what because somewhere out there there's a desire motivated person with definition that looks like mine and is an emotional manifestor. Right. And an innocence motivated, you know, so it's not one thing or the other. It's like all of it together. But it is really interesting.

I hadn't even been cognizant of that until this moment in the conversation that I identified so quickly. Oh, yeah, open head stuff for Nick. Trying to suffocate the ideas that are coming in that the sacral wants to play with. Desire, motivation.

I identified that so clearly. And it is so opposite to what my not self head stuff looks like a lot, which is like, act on all of this, do all of this.

But I hadn't made the connection that we were experiencing it so differently. I see the mechanics of it so clearly for people, both of us. But yeah, for me, open head stuff is like, go, go, go. Not stop.

Wow.

But anyways, okay, should we go on that thread or should I try to get back to where I was originally going to go?

Do you know where you were originally going to go?

I do, yeah. I was going to talk about how the call in collaboratory where I was like, let's dream big about the glue.

Yes.

So I thank you for that sacral validation to go in this direction to.

Hear what you have.

So. Okay.

We lovingly refer to the question mark at the end of the rainbow that is collaboratory as how our different projects, individual projects and collaborations are going to come together in some sort of packaged thing that we present to the world. We refer to that as the glue. And so we have, like, swirled around together and probably separate, too, different ideas for what that could be.

And there was one day, like, kind of early on, I want to say it was like week three or four of working together where I was like, let's just like, dream about the glue, because I don't want there to be any pressure. Now. You can also think about all the times I talk about wanting to alleviate pressure and, like, my own experience with my undefined head.

Right.

I don't want there to be. And my own experience having a defined root and knowing that I condition other people with root pressure is part of it too.

But I didn't want there to be pressure to, like, I didn't want people to be trying to edit what they wanted to make because they weren't sure it would fit the ultimate big vision. Like, I could see you doing that. Right. Based on everything we've talked about. But I also.

I also felt like if we let ourselves play and dance and dream together a little bit on how this could potentially all come together, it will probably help clarify the projects that we're touching base with each other.

And also one will inform the other will inform the other will inform the other, which feels like very emotional authority, because that's how it works for me. This informs this, this informs this, and then I feel through it all.

But anyways, I presented, like, an hour or something of a call one day where I was like, let's just dream big. What are some ideas? What have you already been envisioning, like, from the moment you read about collaboratory? Like, what came to mind?

I wanted to play in that dream space. And I think part of it was I wanted to be able to give a little more context around the loose visions for possibilities that I have.

But I also, for me, not having that vision has stopped me from moving forward with collaborative efforts similar to this in the past. So that's the opposite of what I just said about my experience with the open end. Are you tracking what I'm saying?

Not having the clear vision has been harder for you in the past?

Yeah, as in, like, the mental pressure to understand how it's all going to come together has stopped me from initiating collaborative efforts in the past. So it just feels like the opposite of what I was saying a few minutes ago. But, yeah, anyways. Yeah.

So the point I'm trying to get to, I think is that that was fun for me, that call, and I didn't expect to, but I ended up kind of, like, unveiling this larger vision I have for something in my work that feels further away. And it doesn't feel like the thing we're gonna do together, but it also doesn't feel disconnected.

And so hearing, like, where people's ideas were, it just made me feel like, okay, I need to share this. This, so I can share this context. And then afterwards, I had, like, a big vulnerability hangover because I was like, oh, shit, did I scare everyone?

Right?

Like, was my idea too big and also too, like, ambiguous? Like, I had. I just had, like, all these mental pressure fears of, like. Yeah, just all sorts of shit. So I was, like, probably a manifester stuff too.

Like, feeling, like, scared that this big thing that feels so. To me, it's gonna be rejected, you know, like, push you away.

And so I can't remember if that's, like, the thing I was thinking about when I originally mentioned to you this whole concept of letting ideas breathe. Cause I think this happened a little later, this call. I don't know how it happened.

It might have been at the end of that glue convo that this whole thing started.

Okay, so then if that's the case, this was My personal context around it was, I know, for me, with emotional authority, like, I do need to explore. I need to let myself go to the highs and the lows, and both can be kind of embarrassing.

I can have an embarrassed orientation to either the highs or the lows after the fact, because the thing that was present in my awareness at a peak or a peak dip of my emotional process is never the truth. And so my undefined Ajna, like, hates that. It hates that I felt something or presented something that wasn't true.

And it wants to prove that I know the truth. Right? And so it can feel very vulnerable for me to, like, share from that part of the process.

But I also know that every piece of feedback I get about the thing that I'm letting breathe, whether it's, like, from that manic high or from, like, a scared, sad low, all of that, like, me moving through the experience of meeting that feedback and feeling into how that felt. Like, all of that is such important information for me to move through my system. And so I, like, I have to have that experience of.

I have to have the experience of rejection. I have to have the experience of misunderstanding.

I have to have all of those experiences and, like, let my body be a home to them for the time because they clarify the eventual. Yeah, vision. But still not in a way where I actually understand how it's all gonna go.

Like, still not in a way where I know what's happening, but in a way where, like, the fear of being rejected or misunderstood or things not working out, that comes from hedon.

Ajna, openness, not self, doesn't feel like a threat anymore because I've moved through all of that, and yet my emotional process is still saying, go, there's something here. Go. We're not leaving this behind.

Hmm. I just hear so much of, like, the. The larger. I'm trying to think of how I see it. It's like, what I've been doing within collaboratory is.

Is giving myself the space to bring whatever it is that I may have at any time to see. Like, is this something? Is this gonna be a thing? Is this possibly a thing? And so, like, I just love. I.

And I've said this to you over our time together, but, like, I love getting to hear more about your own internal experience of what you're also, like, collaboratory ing, you know, like, because we're all in there doing those things together. And it's like, I'm just hearing so much of the, like, benefit of being able to bring.

To have a space where you Feel safe enough to do your different things so that you can serve your own awareness project around. Like, what does my. What does my emotional process need in a collaboratory in a collaborative space? Or, like, you know, like, coming into it? Tell me.

Such a. It's just like, such. I think this is. Yeah.

Part of why I've been really enjoying connecting with you is like, the thought that just came to my head that I'm now already getting open head, distracted by is like, that is such a clear, concise, desire, motivation, articulation of my experience that is helping me tap in more clearly to my experience. Right. Because I'm like, yeah, collaboratory. It's a womb. It's exposure therapy. I'm transmuting something through it. We're transmuting together.

And I, like, do have a sense in my body of what is being transmuted for me. But you just, like, named so succinctly, I couldn't even repeat it because my mind just doesn't work that way.

But you just, like, named so specifically the thing that my soul and my body is specifically wanting to experience and practice inside this container. And. Yeah, I just, like, it made me realize how those moments of precision from you. I can't even grasp them after they're gone, because desire is not.

I don't have desire like, desire. My mind won't work that way. That's why it's desire transference for me. But it's like those little moments of clarity are very, like.

It's like the ener. The energ. The energetic validity of it sticks.

But the actual, like, being able to say, like, I do not have any idea what any of the words are that you just used. But as I was hearing them for the first time, I was like, yeah, that is it. That is the, like, desire of my soul inside of the. This experience.

But for my healthy mind, it feels so much more, like, nebulous. It feels so much more, like, loose, innocent, unattached.

Okay. I love that. I also don't remember what I said.

Yeah. Open. Yeah. You were talking about, like, me. You get loving to get to hear the insight of what I'm. I mean, this is my word.

But what I'm, like, transmuting. You said collaboratory ing, which I just love. I love. I love it. I love that, like, it's a verb. Yeah.

I love using it as a verb for, like, the alchemical process. That just feels like I feel seen in that. Yeah. But, yeah, that is what collaboratory is to me.

It's like a space for us all to explore that shit and to know that we can explore it and like, watch. Watch the process happen.

And I think part of what is what feels good about it to me so far is like, it feels like I can come with that level of self honesty and like, yeah, like what people in other places in my life maybe would refer to as, like, like navel gazing.

Oh, my gosh, yes. I've heard that phrase so much.

Right. Because I feel like, first of all, I have this sense of trust that you all understand there's value to that intensity of navel gazing.

And also I trust that by me taking up all this space as the main character in my life, it's not actually going to force any of you to get on that train with me.

So I feel like I can show up and be like, I'm having a shame about this and I'm not worried that you guys are gonna like, drop what you're doing and rush to try to make me feel better.

Because we're all at a point in our journeys where we know how to sit with the discomfort of someone else's discomfort, and we know how to, like, filter it through our own body's wisdom, our own body's authority, flesh. Like, how and if we want to engage with this person in this way.

So it's like, that's part of what's been really healing about it for me is like, I can bring my whole self to this container. And I'm like, the thing I can feel my soul, like, really wanting to experience is I want to.

My defined ego wants the experience of, like, being recognized in all my projected channels, being recognized for the value that I bring, like, as a teacher, as a guide, as a community organizer, facilitator, but still being seen as like a nuanced human being that is also has shit and that also needs support.

And I think the only reason I don't want to, like, blame that I haven't experienced that on any of my external circumstances or the people I've been in community with in the past. I think my body didn't know how to experience that because I didn't believe that that could happen. Right.

And so I'm like, undoing a lot of those narratives that I can't be seen in the complexity that I am and yet still be, like, valued as the manifestor, the initiator, the guy, whatever. It's so much like. It's so overly limiting to try to say it, but there's this, like, fullness of me.

I'm wanting to be experienced and met with and to receive as.

And I guess it seems I had to create, you know, the womb space of collaboratory for me to, like, practice an openness and a self acceptance enough to like, actually have that mirrored back to me in you all. Yeah, that might be the end of that sentence.

I think this is the end of the conversation.

Yeah. Cool. This was so sweet. This was so sweet.

Sa.